Open 745: 9:12 [Game Over]
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CultOfAthena Goon
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CultOfAthena Goon
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In post 19, kitcat wrote:getting early townpings on invisibility
I like this exchange for kitcat, not sure yet if I like it for Slaxx or not. I'm always a sucker for trying to get early reads, and the reaction reminds me a lot of the somewhat eye-rolling feeling of getting naked voted as town. I mean, I disagree with the reasoning in 28 if only for the fact that—if my memory serves me correctly—I've gotten townread inIn post 21, kitcat wrote:do tellevery singlescumgame I've played for that exact reason. Even still, I think it's a good look for kitcat.
I'm leaning towards that as well myself. Better than where my vote is now, at least. That being said, I'm your first choice? I'm hurt.In post 31, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Pink ball would probably be my second choice for a vote right now.
Unvote
Vote: Pink Ball-
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CultOfAthena Goon
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Looks like a tough crowd. Rooroo, you're gonna need to bring your best material.
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CultOfAthena Goon
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Explain what scum motivation you see in Invis' play so far? This reads to me like voting someone just for not liking something that they did. You say that you don't like the amount of effort that he put into his vote – do you think that makes him scum?
You've seemingly indicated that I'm your first choice for a vote. Why? For that matter, why is Pink Ball your second choice?In post 47, Sleepless Assassin wrote:
Is this at me? I don't believe that one alignment gets attention more than the other. It depends on the other players, not the player who attention is actually on. "Drawing attention" is a non-tell that new players tend to use as a tell.In post 32, Pink Ball wrote:Because I'm drawing attention? So you caught two scums because of calling attention? Is calling attention only a scum trait, or can town call attention too?-
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CultOfAthena Goon
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I'm gonna be honest here. Coming back to see that someone was already hammered and the game was in night phase kind of got me checked out of this game.
That being said, I have read things here and there, and I'm not entirely without reads.
I trust my Invisibility townread.
I think kitcat is pretty obviously town.
Eragon I also think is town.
Excluding myself, that leaves {SA, Slaxx, rooroo}. If we're feeling a little spicy we could even exclude rooroo for 156—which I thought was mildly towny—leaving us with just {SA, Slaxx}. But, that might be a bit too spicy.
Anyways, call me lazy or whatever, but I feel pretty alright voting Slaxx after everything I've just said combined with him pushing a mislynch on one of my townreads.
Vote: Slaxx
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CultOfAthena Goon
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In post 502, Slaxx wrote:I totally baited him into doing that. Bait doesn't have to be scummy.
Also, in my experience I've found people claiming things like this to somewhat reliably be scum. If someone's calling you out on something scummy (pocketing, manipulation, buddying, baiting, whatever) or basically just has you caught, you can't deny it and trying to deflect is unlikely to work – the smart play as scum is just to own it and say that it doesn't have to be scum-indicative.In post 505, Slaxx wrote:
It was 100% manipulative, but I think I had a pretty good basis for doing it. I'm fairly well known for shit like that, I just got out of a game where I suggested we mod kill a slot that mod accidentally cleared to fish for reactions from the 2 remaining unclears. I had no intention of actually modkilling the slot. It was actually Chibi's game lol.In post 504, kitcat wrote:Yeah the baiting felt bad to me.
I'm not sure it's inherentlyscummybut it does feel manipulative - like you were trying to set up a favorable argument for yourself against someone who couldn't defend themselves as well-
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CultOfAthena Goon
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Actually, on second blush I have to wonder if SA is the better first vote. It's 50/50 on whether scum!Slaxx would be bussing scum!SA right here, and I think SA is probably always scum here regardless of if Slaxx or rooroo is the buddy. Getting the better likelihood scum lynch today would be better for PRs.
I'm open to being convinced.-
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It was part thinking that you're the higher value scum lynch as compared to a higher likelihood lynch and part just not wanting to change my vote after a single post, just on the principle of it.In post 515, Slaxx wrote:... then why would you need convinces to vote SA if you think I’m scum half the time and he’s always scum?
In my experience, town isn't doing those things and thus won't admit it. To an accusation of, say, pocketing, a townie would flat out deny that it was happening, likely because that wasn't their intention at all. In contrast, scum are more likely to think of themselves as caught and try to explain it away.In post 522, rooroo wrote:
suppose you are doing one of those things. what would the town response be if admitting it isn't?In post 513, CultOfAthena wrote:Also, in my experience I've found people claiming things like this to somewhat reliably be scum. If someone's calling you out on something scummy (pocketing, manipulation, buddying, baiting, whatever) or basically just has you caught, you can't deny it and trying to deflect is unlikely to work ? the smart play as scum is just to own it and say that it doesn't have to be scum-indicative.
This isn't to claim that townneverdoes those things - I'm not claiming some universal scumtell.-
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CultOfAthena Goon
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You say my name, and then you quote something that SA said while saying "he".In post 527, Invisibility wrote:hi
VOTE: sleepless
my nullreads are rooroo, coa, and sa
out of the three, coa is probably the worst
he hasnt presented that much original thought and also has done some weird shading ("There's no good reason for town not to share these thoughts.")
in fact i might put sleepless to scumlean
also im not really taking into account the pink ball nk
i mean it kinda makes sense if you think a scum doesnt like pinku because he might be a durdley PR trying not to reveal info and draw the NK
in fact it kinda makes sense for sleepless for force pink's hand and drop a few PR pings
yeah that makes sense
I assume you meant to refer to SA as "probably the worst"...?
How are you reading Slaxx right now?-
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CultOfAthena Goon
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Nothing specifically as it relates to the association between you two, something which I realized shortly after making that post. I simply think that SA is scum a greater percentage of the time here, necessarily implying that {SA, Slaxx} and {SA, rooroo} teams are more likely than {Slaxx, rooroo}.In post 531, rooroo wrote:
actually, what rules out slaxx/rooroo fypov?In post 514, CultOfAthena wrote:Actually, on second blush I have to wonder if SA is the better first vote. It's 50/50 on whether scum!Slaxx would be bussing scum!SA right here, and I think SA is probably always scum here regardless of if Slaxx or rooroo is the buddy. Getting the better likelihood scum lynch today would be better for PRs.
I'm open to being convinced.-
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What, this?In post 475, Eragon wrote:IMO more likely it was someone trying to get me to push SA, and draw my attention away. Im not going to bother diving into who this would be, because its dumb speculation that means nothing.
I think on principle you're probably vastly overestimating the amount of thought that scum put into specifically deceiving you, and only slightly less overestimating how much thought went into the nightkill in the first place. I see people make both of those mistakes incredibly consistently.
My bet? There were ~4-7 posts of discussion about who to lynch and they chose someone because "he looks kind of like a PR" or "I don't think we can lynch him" or something similar.
Although, that's just my idea of how scum plays in general. I'd imagine if Slaxx is scum he probably went pretty deep into it. If SA is scum I picture the opposite for him.-
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I mean, I suppose you could make the argument that Pink Ball was killed for having SA as his top townread and/or some other combination of who his scumreads were.
Looking at this point certainly doesn't do any favors for Slaxx – it doesn't do any for Invis or Eragon, either, but that doesn't fit my confirmation bias, so I'm gonna choose to ignore it.In post 449, Pink Ball wrote:@slaxx using your same metric:
Inv->Slaxx->Eragon-> /// kitcat->CoA->rooroo /// SA
Why do you have rooroo so up?
p-edit you already answered. I really think I can get a better read on rooroo on D2, but the way she's playing pings me. She could argue it's because of being an alt, but some things never change
I don't really think the whole single-night NKA is very conclusive in the first place, so—absent a convincing argument to the contrary—I don't think I'm going to let it change my opinion all that much. Either way, conclusive or inconclusive, I still feel pretty good about where my vote's at right now.-
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CultOfAthena Goon
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I feel like I've explained myself pretty well. If you have a more specific question, just ask.In post 540, Eragon wrote:where did you get the slaxx scumread
She's questioning Slaxx over perceived inconsistencies and scummy behavior and is pretty earnestly trying to understand his mindset as opposed to trying to, say, push a mislynch or convince others on something. This has happened all while she's already townread by both the person she's questioning and what seems to me like the rest of the playerlist, so I don't particularly see any scum motivation.how is kitcat "obvious town"
It's just sort of apparent to me, and I'm willing to look foolish if I'm wrong there.
I liked 125, 129 and 130.why did you townread eyes-
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I've played with SA before. He was good – really good. He was a big part of the resaon town won, and I might've even called him "powertown".In post 548, rooroo wrote:if it's not poe then why are you scumreading SA?
Now, that game was a while ago now—maybe even a year, now that I think about it—and I get that it's not necessarily fair to expect someone to play the same in every single game. Even still, he's just not here this game. Hasn't really asked any good questions, hasn't had any good presence. Those things are enough that I'd take them as scum-indicative on their own, but for SA especially it's noticeable.
Sure, he's had big effort posts like 297, but that seems to me like scum forcing themselves to put a lot into a game rather than town naturally having investment into a game.
Sure.In post 549, Eragon wrote:so basically
you scumread SA more than Slaxx, yes?
However, you feel Slaxx has a greater scum equity and (pardon me if this isnt your intention) you think slaxx is less likely to get lynched later on so why not just nip the flower in the bud and get it over with.
am i right?-
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No, no, and no.In post 553, Eragon wrote:so cluelessness, lack of reads, and cluelessness?
Sure, you can believe that if you want.really your only explanation is PoE and you dont like slaxx's accpetion of the "bait"
i agree kitcat is towny.
i dont see obviously though
If you agree with me I really don't care to continue this conversation.-
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Have you considered that I wasn't around for essentially the majority of Day 1? I mean, I'm not sure when you're expecting me to have voiced this.In post 558, rooroo wrote:hot take: athena didn't vote sa here because they're partners
this is the first time she's mentioned a scumread on sa and now only when he seems like a popular scumread even though I think his content was decently scummy on d1 and she supposedly expects him to be obvtown by meta
I've explained myself, and I don't recall you responding. What exactly is "iffy"?In post 562, Slaxx wrote:Bonus points for the fact she voted SA after me despite it being iffy logic to do so based on her own post.-
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Oh, shows what I know.In post 619, Slaxx wrote:Holy shit. That was from town to scum. Not scum to town.
I think I know why the night kill didn’t make much sense now.
Your second line is pretty ridiculous though. I mean, really?-
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Why?In post 631, kitcat wrote:So I townread everyone but Slaxx and SA which means I'm probably going very wrong somewhere-
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I think, absent a good reason, disregarding something for being "too obvious" isn't a good idea. Try what you think is obvious, and if that doesn't work,In post 643, kitcat wrote:Feels almost too easy and I'm not sure if Slaxx starts the day bussing his partnerthenreconsider. Obviously it looks like I'm biased, but still.
Why don't you thunk Slaxx busses SA here?-
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Meh, I'd argue that with the right NK choices, coming into Day 2 it'd look like he could. Both Invis and Eragon—if I'm recalling correctly—townread him, rooroo and I were both unknowns, and IIn post 649, kitcat wrote:Not sure if Slaxx was in a good enough position at daystart to deliberately bus day2 - I'm not sure if the bus would have been enough to propel him to a win in 3waythinkthat he would have known that you'd scumread him. Not sure.
I'd argue that it's a decently playable strategy.
You just... felt like scumreading me? I'm not sure I get what you're saying here.In post 651, Invisibility wrote:hi
my reads really havent changed that kinda sucks
like i felt like scumreading coa but that felt too confbiasy to get another read so i didnt
A lot of people seem towantto scumread me, but it doesn't feel like anyone's truly committed. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it yet.-
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Not really.
My ego wants to say that scum wants to scumread me but there really just isn't much there for them to try to case off of. Probably not the case, but eh. Perhaps more realistically—and less egotistically—is that people feel antsy having too many townreads and so the possibility of me being scum is a comforting one, even before peoplereallyhave reasons for it. That might be a bit too much armchair psychology, though.
So, again. Not really.-
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CultOfAthena
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CultOfAthena Goon
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I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. Why don't I think it's the case that scum needs you and Slaxx lynched? Well, because I think you're scum in the first place – my saying what I said comes from the perspective of knowing for a fact that I'm town and comes within the context of my existing reads. Of course it wouldn't apply to you.In post 685, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Cult's stuff about scum needing her lynched feels like an attempt to scare people away from voting there. Like, she gave gamestate as a reason so I assume she means the fact that everyone has too many town reads, so why doesn't the same thing apply to slaxx or myself?-
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CultOfAthena
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CultOfAthena
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Yeah, my apologies. Just sort of randomly lost a lot of motivation and don't have much of an explanation for it.
I'm not exactly sure why I'm seen as SA's number one partner or even a likely partner of his at all, but whatever. I mean, I think I remember reading that it's because I didn't vote him after Slaxx's claim, but I would have been immediately hammering him had I done that.
I'm pretty confident Eragon is the last anyways so I'm certain town still wins even after my lynch, but obviously I should strive to avoid that.-
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CultOfAthena Goon
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Here's my piece:
If you think I would do the classic newbie scum "scumread your partner but say there are better lynch options" and do it in a way like I did it then just lol. I'll maintin until now that my reasoning was logical given the thought of Slaxx + SA scum. SA could get lynched regardless of if I pushed him or not. Slaxx could've talked his way into the win in LyLo. If you want to read an actual attempt at diversion from SA, read 475, or 557. (Honestly, "likely it was someone trying to get me to push SA, and draw my attention away"? Really?)
Skitter, I knew who you were from the moment you said "VLA on weekends". If you think I kill Pink Ball over you or even over Slaxx... lol.
If you think Eragon deserves to be townread for his Gamma Emerald catchups and posting animal pictures or gifs or whatever... lol.-
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CultOfAthena Goon
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Yeah.. so like I said. I would have been hammering when I made 740.In post 897, kitcat wrote:
Cuz there's only 3 people scum could be and i townread the other 2 more.In post 893, CultOfAthena wrote:I'm not exactly sure why I'm seen as SA's number one partner or even a likely partner of his at all, but whatever. I mean, I think I remember reading that it's because I didn't vote him after Slaxx's claim, but I would have been immediately hammering him had I done that.
Also my vote on SA was the third (ie right after slaxx's claim and right afrer you said you didnt cc)
If you expected me toimmediatelybe like "oh well guess Slaxx is conftown and i'll just head down the list then"... I'm not sure why you would expect that.
I'm not saying it is. I'm saying that people who are active tend to just by osmosis tend to be more townread while people who disappear for a while tend to, even withoutIn post 898, kitcat wrote:
This is explicitly not an acticity based readIn post 895, CultOfAthena wrote:Also, goes to show how much just being around and being present is a factor in not getting lynched. It aligned with actually being scum in the case of SA—not that that was why he was lynched—but not so much here.that muchreasoning behind it, get more scumread.
It's just something I've noticed spectating games recently.-
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CultOfAthena Goon
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You know the funny thing? The duck thought the same thing recently regarding "historically can't townread" and such when it came to an early read — as if I can't learn from recent games, especially given that you're both thinking of basically the first game together after coming back from a break. It was wrong then, it's wrong now.
Be honest with yourself. This is cop-out reasoning.In post 901, kitcat wrote:No idea why you don't nk me? But that happens a lot in a holistic sense so i don't give too much credence to me not being nk'd anymore really-
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I outlined my reasoning fairly clearly. What does not voting him have to do with anything when that would literally have gone exactly against what I was thinking?In post 902, kitcat wrote:
Well, its more the lack of voting him at any pointIn post 899, CultOfAthena wrote:If you think I would do the classic newbie scum "scumread your partner but say there are better lynch options" and do it in a way like I did it then just lol
You really shouldn't think so.In post 903, kitcat wrote:
Yeah his catchup was townieIn post 899, CultOfAthena wrote:If you think Eragon deserves to be townread for his Gamma Emerald catchups and posting animal pictures or gifs or whatever... lol.
His associatices with SA were meh
But just being so *accepting* of the necessity of his lynch today is incredibly townie too
Not really.
I sincerely doubt he's scum, and I've thought so for a while.What do you think of vizzie-
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Well, I'll qualify that. I think inmostsituations I would townread someone directly suggesting that they be lynched in order to solve the game further. I have encountered situations where it's come from scum, but for the most part I think it comes from town.
Someone accepting "if my death is what it takes then so be it" or whatever as just sort of an acceptance of themselves as being scumread, however, I wouldnottownread – in fact, I would say that it's a common move for scum in this kind of situation.-
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You died the first opportunity after a Mason and conftown. That's when you died.In post 906, kitcat wrote:Uh think of thr last game i played with scum!you. When did i die again?
P-edit bleh you got me on mobile
Consider that this game is happening after that game, when I know for a fact that you'd be averse to the same thing happening twice (which is obvious from what's going on now, but I digress).-
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There are situations where people directly suggest their own lynch. In my experience this has come from town more often than scum.In post 912, kitcat wrote:In post 911, skitter30 wrote:I don't understand the distinction you're drawing, or why eragon embodies the lattter
There are situations where people accept "my lynch doesn't matter because I think we win anyways". Not only do I do not think this comes from town any more than it comes from scum, I think in some situations this is scum'sonlyoption.-
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Also, let's flip this on its head: why do I kill PB?In post 913, CultOfAthena wrote:
You died the first opportunity after a Mason and conftown. That's when you died.In post 906, kitcat wrote:Uh think of thr last game i played with scum!you. When did i die again?
P-edit bleh you got me on mobile
Consider that this game is happening after that game, when I know for a fact that you'd be averse to the same thing happening twice (which is obvious from what's going on now, but I digress).-
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In post 919, Slaxx wrote:In post 449, Pink Ball wrote:@slaxx using your same metric:
Inv->Slaxx->Eragon-> /// kitcat->CoA->rooroo /// SA
Why do you have rooroo so up?
p-edit you already answered. I really think I can get a better read on rooroo on D2, but the way she's playing pings me. She could argue it's because of being an alt, but some things never change
Don't start with the conclusion and look for reasoning after the fact.In post 460, Slaxx wrote:6. Sleepless Assassin
7. Slaxx
8. kitcat
9. Pink Ball
Actually isoing Eyes maybe Cult should be the first
I don't think invis is scum.In post 921, Slaxx wrote:Flip the flip on the head on the head: why does inv kill PB?-
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I'm prideful. Arrogant, even. I don't like being lynched. I don't like being lynched over someone like Eragon. I don't like being lynched in a game where I feel like my reads were pretty good even.In post 922, Slaxx wrote:I guess it could be eragon but you should be HAPPY because we will lynch him tomorrow if your flip doesnt end it
Yeah, I don't think town loses this game. That doesn't make me feel any better about it.-
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Yeah, yeah. "Scum in this situation needs to have an excuse for not getting lynched first!!" or something like that.
If I do get flipped first, that'll be one misconception of many cleared up.
Scum in this situation does exactly what eragon does and pretends that they don't care about being lynched. Nonchalance is what scum fake. Level 2 tells as opposed to level 1.-
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I'm not trying to be reasonable here. Well – I always try to stay reasonable. I am trying to be direct here. I don't care about pocketing you, or making you feel good, or whatever.In post 924, kitcat wrote:I died like the night before lylo
But yeah rhe second paragraph is fair.
I'm a little wary of you talking me out of lynching you by being reasonable sounding
I want you to recognize that I am town and that Eragon is scum. I want you to recognize that my logic was perfectly legitimate Day 2. I want you to recognize that Eragon's posting Day 2 is plainly partner indicative.-
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What exactly do you mean by "survivalistic or defeated"?In post 928, kitcat wrote:Yeah he's doing that. But i feel like scum are more survivalistic and/or defeated, as opposed to being like - it literally doesnt matter the order, go ahead, i know we win kf we lynch me/you in any order-
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What's town indicative about Eragon's posting? Don't mention "accepting that he might be lynched".
Whywould I do what I did as scum? Consider that by scumreading SA I am recognizing that eventually he would be lynched, and give me enough credit that, if I had knowledge of everyone's alignment, I could recognize that what I was doing with SA would look partner-indicative. Why would I do that? I can tell you personally that if I were scum I would have either hard gone for Slaxx, rooroo or even Invis, or would have more strongly bussed SA.-
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- Posts: 754
- Joined: November 15, 2017
That tell doesn't apply to everyone. I don't think it applies to Eragon, and that's not just in the context of this game.In post 940, kitcat wrote:Feeling like you've just lost so you lack motivation for playig
Consider that this kind of effort can be made without once consciously mentioning lynching someone else over you – that just attempting to look very towny through your posting is an attempt to get the lynch off of you.Teying to get the lybch off of you because you know if you get lynched you've lost-
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CultOfAthena Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 754
- Joined: November 15, 2017
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CultOfAthena Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 754
- Joined: November 15, 2017
See, this shit is faked. I know that saying this actively increases the chance that I get lynched today, but if by some miracle Eragon flips town here, I will be doing literally everything in my power to convince whoever's alive that I'm town.In post 958, Eragon wrote:If CoA tips town, I will vote myself in the first post tommorow
Solemn word
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Scum are too scared to take the direct route that they think looks like it's scum motivated, so they try to look nonchalant. It just looks faked here.
I care about winning this game and not being lynched because I'm town.-
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CultOfAthena Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 754
- Joined: November 15, 2017
Then vote yourself now.In post 957, Eragon wrote:I’d much rather you be lynched, but as I’m confident that invisi is town, town wins either way.-
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CultOfAthena Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 754
- Joined: November 15, 2017
Not really. That game was a fluke. The fact that you're thinking this should indicate to you that I'm town.
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