Newbie 1910: Aerial Photography [Game Over!]

[GuiltyLion]

I take that to mean that you still think it would have been brave of scum!gw, but that other factors overshadow any weight that might have. Is that reasonable?

yeah that's basically it. especially considering the way he continued to push on the slot when the general thread vibe moved elsewhere and opening with it again on D2, it stops being "that guy is aggressively pushing a lynch with little resistance at this point" (which I consider relatively brave scumplay) and starts looking more like "that guy is tunneling the weakest slot he's pushed all game and avoiding the more controversial ones" (which looks more like scumplay). that, plus him reaching to write up a case against Junk just feels like he's looking for excuses to vote and push elsewhere outside of YS

[u r a person 2]

Hey GL, I think I'm voting you here, mate. Any particular reason why I should be town reading you?

VOTE: guilty lion

I'm not scum, which is the most important reason.

I'm more interested in why you're townreading YellowSnow. What in his play says town to you? What's your response to my 307 or 634?

So I'm not actually seeing the contradiction that you're trying to emphasize in 634. I might be missing context (tell me if I am) but YS seems to be embracing the scum read by calling it scummy, no?

As to 307, I don't think what you bring up are outside of his town range. Have you breezed through 1906? You should.

I've also got a post that shows I think a decent town-indicative post from YS

and I buy his dumbtells (again, bad name) over the last few pages. Especially the one about where the claim came.

We can keep discussing this, and I want to! But I also want you to give me a real answer about why I should be town reading you.

[YellowSnow]

I admit attention to detail isn't my strong suit. Also I work while playing.

[GuiltyLion]

A lynch has been achieved!

VC 1.FINAL

votes

[5] computerfan0

:

YellowSnow 160, the worst 444, GuiltyLion 471, brassherald 540, Junk 575

[2] GrandWazoo

:

computerfan0 87, YyottaCat 256

[1] Junk

:

GrandWazoo 216

[1] Not Voting

:

JunkoChan 574

Which of the mislynch voters is scum? Yellow's vote was basically an early "get with the program" frustration vote rather than push. TW we know was town. Brass is consensus townread. GL suddenly and inexplicably switched to compfan after a lengthy fracas with Junk, who hammered without getting a claim from compfan (which was unlikely in any event).

At least one of these players is scum.

Theory 1: Junk is scum bussing yellow.
Theory 2: Junk is scum trawling for the easiest mislynch he can obtain.
Theory 3: Junk and GL are scumbuddies staging an elaborate distancing drama.
Theory 4: GL is scum.
Theory 5: ?????

Since we are nearing EoD and we will again get fuck-all from the moonyyottavesper7 slot, I'd reluctantly settle with a yellow lynch. But remember: Junk can always claim he was RB'd till hell freezes over. If he's town he's no better than VT.

also this post is bad - again he just writes off the idea of scum!YellowSnow. Why is a "get with the program" frustration push that never evolved into anything else a town vote?

p-edit: it's not a contradiction so much as it is that Junk is unCC'd doctor at that point and therefore no townie should/would be scumreading him. YellowSnow called him scum immediately after Junk pointed a finger at YS, and then when called out on

that

, Yellow tried to play semantics games to defend himself by saying that he didn't vote Junk.

I'll look through 1906 but I really don't believe in using one game for meta. the worst said something similar, but if you haven't seen Yellow's scumgame then there's never a safe reason to assume this is his town game based on old town games.

I also don't buy the dumbtells. He posted at end of D1 responding to discussion about claims/PRs, that suggests to me that he did see the doc claim.

as for why you should be townreading me, I don't really believe in towncasing myself? It should be evident I'm not working with anyone and I'm trying to solve the game. If you're not able to see that and you have specific issues/questions about my play then I can try to show you, but you're also not really vocalizing why you think I'm scum so I don't have a starting point to work with.

[northsidegal]

VC 2.4

votes

[2] YellowSnow

:

Junk 594, JunkoChan 629

[1] Junk

:

GrandWazoo 705

[1] GrandWazoo

:

YellowSnow 706

[1] GuiltyLion

:

u r a person 2 795

[2] Not Voting

:

GuiltyLion, brassherald

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

The Day 2 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-01-18 15:01:59)

Mod Notes

:

[brassherald]

I don't like GL as scum, the more I think about it. I think he is correct, he's not working with anyone.

And, I guess a town cop and two goon setup is legit, in my inability to read simple charts I missed that cop can be alone. And, if there were two goons, doctor would be an even safer claim by someone who is clearly experienced. I think that my Junk lock town needs to be revoked because it's just not true.

[u r a person 2]

I'll look through 1906 but I really don't believe in using one game for meta. the worst said something similar, but if you haven't seen Yellow's scumgame then there's never a safe reason to assume this is his town game based on old town games.

I also don't buy the dumbtells. He posted at end of D1 responding to discussion about claims/PRs, that suggests to me that he did see the doc claim.

as for why you should be townreading me, I don't really believe in towncasing myself? It should be evident I'm not working with anyone and I'm trying to solve the game. If you're not able to see that and you have specific issues/questions about my play then I can try to show you, but you're also not really vocalizing why you think I'm scum so I don't have a starting point to work with.

I'm glad you'll look through it. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that YS is town based on meta. I'm arguing that YS behavior that would be scum-indicative for your average player is not outside of YS's town range.

Could you point me to those posts about pr's and claims and what not? that's a big deal.

My scum read on you is mostly poe, which is why I wanted to just ask generally like that. That's fine, though. I respect not wanting to do self-meta.

[YellowSnow]

His vote position on the comp wagon is not town favorable either.

[YellowSnow]

So, let's say you are right about GW, who's his partner?

either GL or the worst imo what do you think?

Oh, I misread your prior post. But, I'd generally agree those are pretty decent guesses for a scum team.

I had thought you said you couldn't see those.

I would get behind a GW lynch at this point, really not liking the push on an inactive slot.

Mind you, I don't like the inactive slot being here, but C'est la vie.

VOTE: GrandWazoo

UNVOTE:

For now. I'm going to be active enough that I can contribute to the lynch as the deadline bears down on us. Last minute Day 1 lynches are not uncommon, but I would like to prevent a quickhammer when two players have been away for two days.

Okay, it looks like a GW lynch is not happening, just being pragmatic, I think YellowSnow would be a very acceptable lynch, and I do think that Nineja lynch could hit as well at this point, there have been good arguments made about Nineja.

VOTE: Nineja

L-1 here. Not sold on it, but I think this is the only realistic lynch occurring today.

GL is better than flailing at scum. He totally slipped under everyone's radar in the last game I saw him as scum.

I'm more interested in computer fan. This whole nationstar or whatever thing is tiresome and I think it is now appropriate to seek thoughts or rope.

VOTE: computerfan

Screw it, I rescind my request to take your time this phase.

Pretty sure Junk and GW are town at this point. Junko is a good bet as well. I know I'm town, so we have the pool of 3 to lynch. I'd love to get the thoughts from vesper before I place my votes, but, like if that's just going to be an empty slot for the rest of the game, so be it.

GW/BH scumteam is looking pretty likely to me at this point. In these posts BH is spending a lot of time buddying with GW.

[YellowSnow]

On a iso of GW, he's been focusing mostly on Junk and pretty much ignoring BH and fueling the flame with Junk rather than looking anywhere else, which would be very convenient if Brass is his scumbuddy.

[JunkoChan]

So, let's say you are right about GW, who's his partner?

either GL or the worst imo what do you think?

Oh, I misread your prior post. But, I'd generally agree those are pretty decent guesses for a scum team.

I had thought you said you couldn't see those.

I would get behind a GW lynch at this point, really not liking the push on an inactive slot.

Mind you, I don't like the inactive slot being here, but C'est la vie.

VOTE: GrandWazoo

UNVOTE:

For now. I'm going to be active enough that I can contribute to the lynch as the deadline bears down on us. Last minute Day 1 lynches are not uncommon, but I would like to prevent a quickhammer when two players have been away for two days.

Okay, it looks like a GW lynch is not happening, just being pragmatic, I think YellowSnow would be a very acceptable lynch, and I do think that Nineja lynch could hit as well at this point, there have been good arguments made about Nineja.

VOTE: Nineja

L-1 here. Not sold on it, but I think this is the only realistic lynch occurring today.

GL is better than flailing at scum. He totally slipped under everyone's radar in the last game I saw him as scum.

I'm more interested in computer fan. This whole nationstar or whatever thing is tiresome and I think it is now appropriate to seek thoughts or rope.

VOTE: computerfan

Screw it, I rescind my request to take your time this phase.

Pretty sure Junk and GW are town at this point. Junko is a good bet as well. I know I'm town, so we have the pool of 3 to lynch. I'd love to get the thoughts from vesper before I place my votes, but, like if that's just going to be an empty slot for the rest of the game, so be it.

GW/BH scumteam is looking pretty likely to me at this point. In these posts BH is spending a lot of time buddying with GW.

It's funny to me that you are actually playing the game now, that aside you are correct here, BH/GW team could be possible, I think at some point BH pointed out that going for GW was a bad idea or something like that? I'll look it up (don't quote me on this one I'm not sure) it might have been one of the exreplacements)

[u r a person 2]

Guys, I don't want to be that guy but I'm going to be that guy because I want the style points later which I guess actually just makes me that guy.

Junk
GrandWazoo
YellowSnow
JunkoChan
GuiltyLion
brassherald

GrandWazoo - town for the entire early game. Frustrated with lurkers, highly active, no charisma or pocket attempts. This is town.

Yellow Snow - Town for that set of posts I discussed earlier where he declined to vote for my slot. Also all of the dum- let's call them uninformed-tells

JunkoChan - Overall towny game. Do I need to case this one out? I think Junko is pretty universally town read.

Brass Herald - Town for his entrance, which was obv-town. Asking questions, engaging TW, frustration at the state of the wagons when he entered.

Which leaves us Junk, who you guys all correctly scum read so well that his partner bussed him before the replacement

and who then fake claimed doctor, likely at the advice of his well experienced partner

Guilty lion who I think played pretty well. poe is a cruel mistress.


This is a posterity post. I know all of the reasoning is brief. Engage me in a discussion about whatever

[u r a person 2]

@TW I hope you're cheering me on in the dead thread, mate <3

[GrandWazoo]

Holy shit we have action!

I take that to mean that you still think it would have been brave of scum!gw, but that other factors overshadow any weight that might have. Is that reasonable?

yeah that's basically it. especially considering the way he continued to push on the slot when the general thread vibe moved elsewhere and opening with it again on D2, it stops being "that guy is aggressively pushing a lynch with little resistance at this point" (which I consider relatively brave scumplay) and starts looking more like "that guy is tunneling the weakest slot he's pushed all game and avoiding the more controversial ones" (which looks more like scumplay). that, plus him reaching to write up a case against Junk just feels like he's looking for excuses to vote and push elsewhere outside of YS

Which "general thread vibe" are we talking about? The one where y'all lynched the townie? The slot I was pushing was formerly occupied by Nineja which (again, saying this not for the first time) was persuasively scumread by TW - the only player we know was town - and inherited by Junk.

Seriously GL, I feel like you ask the same questions even after I've answered them, and raise the same issues even after I've resolved them.

A lynch has been achieved!

VC 1.FINAL

votes

[5] computerfan0

:

YellowSnow 160, the worst 444, GuiltyLion 471, brassherald 540, Junk 575

[2] GrandWazoo

:

computerfan0 87, YyottaCat 256

[1] Junk

:

GrandWazoo 216

[1] Not Voting

:

JunkoChan 574

Which of the mislynch voters is scum? Yellow's vote was basically an early "get with the program" frustration vote rather than push. TW we know was town. Brass is consensus townread. GL suddenly and inexplicably switched to compfan after a lengthy fracas with Junk, who hammered without getting a claim from compfan (which was unlikely in any event).

At least one of these players is scum.

Theory 1: Junk is scum bussing yellow.
Theory 2: Junk is scum trawling for the easiest mislynch he can obtain.
Theory 3: Junk and GL are scumbuddies staging an elaborate distancing drama.
Theory 4: GL is scum.
Theory 5: ?????

Since we are nearing EoD and we will again get fuck-all from the moonyyottavesper7 slot, I'd reluctantly settle with a yellow lynch. But remember: Junk can always claim he was RB'd till hell freezes over. If he's town he's no better than VT.

also this post is bad - again he just writes off the idea of scum!YellowSnow.

WTF man? Theory #1 has Junk bussing yellow, meaning

both

are scum. I even state my willingness to lynch yellow if worse comes to worst. At no point do I ever declare yellow town, or "write off the idea of scum!YellowSnow", and it's highly disingenuous of you to persist in saying I have.

p-edit: it's not a contradiction so much as it is that Junk is unCC'd doctor at that point and therefore no townie should/would be scumreading him. YellowSnow called him scum immediately after Junk pointed a finger at YS, and then when called out on

that

, Yellow tried to play semantics games to defend himself by saying that he didn't vote Junk.

Because that's what yellow does. As I told you several times now, yellow just does shit like that and it's NAI.

I'll look through 1906 but I really don't believe in using one game for meta. the worst said something similar, but if you haven't seen Yellow's scumgame then there's never a safe reason to assume this is his town game based on old town games.

You don't think it's worth seeing his town game? OK I'll save you the trouble of reading that other game. He plays the same derpy way in that one.

as for why you should be townreading me, I don't really believe in towncasing myself? It should be evident I'm not working with anyone and I'm trying to solve the game. If you're not able to see that and you have specific issues/questions about my play then I can try to show you, but you're also not really vocalizing why you think I'm scum so I don't have a starting point to work with.

There you go again. I have never said you're scum. I'm leaving open the possibility. There's a difference which is why I'm not voting you.

And, I guess a town cop and two goon setup is legit, in my inability to read simple charts I missed that cop can be alone. And, if there were two goons, doctor would be an even safer claim by someone who is clearly experienced. I think that my Junk lock town needs to be revoked because it's just not true.

Praise the lord, someone gets it. The fact that Junk was not CC'd is

not proof

that he is what he says he is. I jumped to the same conclusion myself before looking at the chart and went "now wait just a goddam minute..."

[GrandWazoo]

But think about the likelihood of a) one scum targeting TW for the NK; b) town!Junk targeting TW for protection; and c) the other scum roleblocking town!Junk. This highly improbable scenario is exactly what he wants us to believe! Compare that to the likelihood of scum!Junk successfully FC (83.3%). And even if Junk is CC'd by the actual Doc, he probably thinks he can bury that claim in verbiage and hostility, as he has done to town all game.

I feel your paranoia

but is it really so low probability?

if junk is the doctor, then the rb for sure role blocks him

so then it's just a question of whether both scum and junk decide to target TW, and that doesn't seem too unlikely. 25-50% shot of happening considering the gamestate

The question is what's more likely, the complex sequence of actions supporting Junk claims, or the fairly simple one where Junk crafts a fakeclaim and retrofits subsequent events? I find the latter more likely by a considerable margin.

well, he claimed D1

and the presumption is usually that town won't lie about their role.

so in this world from scum perspective, he was almost certainly doctor.

That's the presumption, yes, the kind that can lose games. And as I said previously, Junk can continue to say he was roleblocked, especially now that our other PR is dead. Awfully convenient, isn't it?

[u r a person 2]

that last bit you quoted was an explanation for why scum would role block the doctor in the world where junk was actually the doctor. so it's scum team presuming in my quote, not town

[GrandWazoo]

Ahh, OK. Missed the context there.

[Junk]

omfg this guy is also scumreading me

u guys are bad at mafia

i dont rly wanna play

[Junk]

i heard bad stuff about mafia scum

i should have listened and not engaged in these aids, lol

[Junk]

ill remove ms from my bookmarks and i guess ill come back in 4 days to see who got lynched

[GrandWazoo]

Ragequitting. LAMISS.

[u r a person 2]

I don't like GL as scum, the more I think about it. I think he is correct, he's not working with anyone.

And, I guess a town cop and two goon setup is legit, in my inability to read simple charts I missed that cop can be alone. And, if there were two goons, doctor would be an even safer claim by someone who is clearly experienced. I think that my Junk lock town needs to be revoked because it's just not true.

talk to me about your GL town read? Could he not be with junk?

[brassherald]

I don't like GL as scum, the more I think about it. I think he is correct, he's not working with anyone.

And, I guess a town cop and two goon setup is legit, in my inability to read simple charts I missed that cop can be alone. And, if there were two goons, doctor would be an even safer claim by someone who is clearly experienced. I think that my Junk lock town needs to be revoked because it's just not true.

talk to me about your GL town read? Could he not be with junk?

I guess he could. I'm a little bit Rusty in figuring out who is new or scummy with my long break, however, I just really don't think that Guilty Lion takes the shot at the worst. I don't think the worst tipped his hand at being a cop at all day 1.

Plus, I admittedly only saw him once as scum, but he was much smoother in that game than he is here.

I feel like that game he was more rehearsed as of he was talking in the scum chat and running it past his partner, I do not remember if he was post game, but I just don't get the organized feeling here that I did there.

I will openly admit that I totally fucked that game with a bad read of GL, though. And also I did not read the scum games GL posted here because I'm lazy.

[GrandWazoo]

but is it really so low probability?

if junk is the doctor, then the rb for sure role blocks him

so then it's just a question of whether both scum and junk decide to target TW, and that doesn't seem too unlikely. 25-50% shot of happening considering the gamestate

I can't put a definite number on it, but you first have to believe that scum townread both TW and Junk, then NK'd TW and RB'd Junk. As opposed to vice versa. Since Junk was considerably more aggro than TW, I think he'd be the NK but I'm just speculating. Or maybe TW's scumread on Nineja had something to do with it. I can't find evidence of TW crumbing his Cop role, nor anything suggesting Junk is Doc, maybe it was a lucky guess, or one or both scum had a meta Cop read on TW.

Then there's the likelihood that Junk began plotting his FC the minute he read his PM, studied the setup and figured (correctly at first) that nobody else would.

Whatever percentage you put on it Junk's scenario seems awfully convenient, and his only response so far has been "I wasn't CC'd so GFY".

[u r a person 2]

but you first have to believe that scum townread both TW and Junk,

could you clarify this please