Newbie 1912 [GAME COMPLETE]

[Enter]

Ultimately elements was a mistake, but his string of posts was the most scum filled thing i had seen all game, loops activity made me see them as town, prior when they were avoiding confrontation i saw your point. So when i see yesterday, with the 5 of you on loop, 2 of those 5 ruled out (horse because he was on elements for legit reasons, and elements being dead, it leaves the remaining 3 as susp.

WTF are you misrepping here?

I didnt hammer because i wasnt online, when i posted intent i didnt get back on until he was dead. Im running theories here, your wagon contained scum. PERIOD. you are now in my bottom two because i miss read munch. so you are my first suspect.

and yes, i know he didnt in the same post, but he called him town, voted him, then called him town again. can you literally stop tunnelling and objectively evaluate your wagon? or is that to hard, at this point ignoring you progresses this game more then interacting with you. you arent building you are muddying the game.

Good. Vote me please.

First I want to get some things straight real quick tho:
1. The fact that elements was a mistake IS THE POINT. Loopdan was also a mistake, and the fact that you excuse elements but not loop is what I'm pointing out as flawed.
2. You've been misrepping me and "muddying the game" since I scumread you a couple posts ago, which is the same thing you did the last time I scumread you.
3. There is no wagon on you, stop using buzzwords to sound like you know what you're talking about.
4. Your argument is that loopdan flipped town => there was scum on his wagon. But what I'm trying to get you to realize, is that if Elements wasn't a PR, he also would have flipped town, and loopdan wouldn't have flipped at all. And you would be scumreading an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SET OF PEOPLE. Someone even dropped an intent to hammer on elements.

I'm pointing out how absolutely DEVOID OF LOGIC your argument is and you're calling me scum and misrepping me.

Also out of curiosity, what is it that you think that I'm misrepping you on?

[Enter]

Also quit talking about being objective when you haven't taken a single objective look at your argument since I put my vote on you. You're WAY overreacting.

[Thespio]

You cant take any pressure, you get all flustered, feel like you are being misrepped which you arent. shitpost with stuff like this:

Wait let me get this straight: Your argument is that scum guaranteed did not vote loopdan? LOL

Let's go down the list of reasons you didn't hammer:
1. WK points
2. Scummy quickhammers
3. Dragging out day for town points = more town points
4. Looked like loop would get lynched anyways and you'd get points for not being on it.

which isnt even anything to do with my post.

M8 chill, im being objective, i didnt tunnel someone into oblivion, and even while questioning you notice i still have someone i suspect more. Ill grant you it might have been a mistake, but you still miss the mark everywhere else.

[MagikHorse]

The first bit of 1066 is already being discussed between the two of you, so I'm cutting that piece out since it's no longer relevant.

Let me get this straight: You are drawing assumptions instead of asking questions, and you're blaming me for your failure? How does this add up for you?

Nice loaded question, but that doesn't do much to change the fact that you can't expect us to be able to read your mind. If you don't explain things you're just leaving yourself open to interpretation, which is your own consequence of not explaining them.

Take a moment if you need to to get over the arguments you've just been in/are still in, then please enlighten us on your reasoning instead of just tossing blame at us for misunderstanding your unexplained reads. That's honestly a better way to kill that off as an argument than arguing the validity of filling in your holes.

[Thespio]

There is no wagon on you, stop using buzzwords to sound like you know what you're talking about.

dude you hard core were fishing for wagons, you popped your vote down, saw someone vote me, and voted me because reasons. XD you are so anti town that if you arent scum you should re-evaluate your play style.

[Enter]

You cant take any pressure, you get all flustered, feel like you are being misrepped which you arent. shitpost with stuff like this:

Wait let me get this straight: Your argument is that scum guaranteed did not vote loopdan? LOL

Let's go down the list of reasons you didn't hammer:
1. WK points
2. Scummy quickhammers
3. Dragging out day for town points = more town points
4. Looked like loop would get lynched anyways and you'd get points for not being on it.

which isnt even anything to do with my post.

M8 chill, im being objective, i didnt tunnel someone into oblivion, and even while questioning you notice i still have someone i suspect more. Ill grant you it might have been a mistake, but you still miss the mark everywhere else.

LOL who can't take pressure? I voted you and you reacted like this:

Spoiler:

"we arent gonna have you tunnel one guy."

As far as reading you for different reasons, pretty sure you agreed with me that something was wrong with the loopdan read, so OMGUSing me for approaching my other reads differently is also dumb. Stop.

I did agree but you never progressed beyond that, you didnt push anyone else, when we have 4 active players (you, me, loopdan, and Horse) its hard to actually get accurate reads on anyone. Also the fact you see RCE as scum and me as scum confirms to me that you only scumread people who dont agree with you. You attacked Horse for the same thing, notice your reads, you put him at the bottom. I think everyone ought to seriously look at the fact you hard tunneled a townie yesterday and now you are trying to put shade on anyone who resisted or didnt vote your way. Its not missrepping when you literally post it

Rough draft:

Town

Skellen
Munch
Thespio/Muh
===
Magik
RCE

Scum

This is weird for me cuz I think there's prolly only one scum between Magik/RCE, but that's where I sit atm.

Oh dang there it is. You putting the people who didnt shift. Beyond that your reason for lynching me is that im omgusing, except im not, ive not voted you im reading your iso. i can summarize it:

Tunnels Loopdan
interacts with me (still tunnelling loopdan)
Tunnels Loopdan
Attacks Horse (still tunnelling loopdan)
Lynches Loopdan
Loopdan flips green
Puts everyone who was off loopdan or was hesitant to vote loop on their scum list.


I just want to know why you think scum werent on your wagon, and im not TR RCE you are just the most obvscum right now, FOS on Enter.

And yeah, it does have to do with your post, you said

Why in gods green earth wouldnt i just have agreed with you as scum

Please actually chill and pay attention

[Enter]

The first bit of 1066 is already being discussed between the two of you, so I'm cutting that piece out since it's no longer relevant.

Let me get this straight: You are drawing assumptions instead of asking questions, and you're blaming me for your failure? How does this add up for you?

Nice loaded question, but that doesn't do much to change the fact that you can't expect us to be able to read your mind. If you don't explain things you're just leaving yourself open to interpretation, which is your own consequence of not explaining them.

Take a moment if you need to to get over the arguments you've just been in/are still in, then please enlighten us on your reasoning instead of just tossing blame at us for misunderstanding your unexplained reads. That's honestly a better way to kill that off as an argument than arguing the validity of filling in your holes.

I'm not asking you to read my mind, I'm asking you to ask questions if you have them, because I, also, cannot read your mind and know what you need/want more information on.

There is no wagon on you, stop using buzzwords to sound like you know what you're talking about.

dude you hard core were fishing for wagons, you popped your vote down, saw someone vote me, and voted me because reasons. XD you are so anti town that if you arent scum you should re-evaluate your play style.

Lol . So now you're assuming every time someone puts down a vote, they're "fishing for wagons?" What even is that?
And regardless, that doesn't change the fact that there is STILL no wagon on you, which makes what you said STILL wrong.

Also, I thought I was your primary target? Why is your vote still not on me?

Finally, I'm "anti town" because I put votes on people that I think are scummy? Please explain yourself more here, because I'm not the person that has been misrepresenting people all of day two.

[Enter]

Dude, you overreacted to my vote on you, immediately called me scum, and followed up by continuously misrepping my arguments, ignoring the points I have against you and trying to answer points I didn't make against you, you're telling me I'm anti-town w/ because "popped my vote down, saw someone vote you, and voted you because reasons" - which is strange, because I'm the only person voting you right now (hence, did not "see someone else vote you") so your argument for why I'm anti town is because I voted you because reasons. You're the one failing to be objective here. Please figure out what you're doing and fix this.

[Enter]

As much fun as day one was, I really don't want all of day two to be a yelling match, so the sooner you figure out what on earth is going on, the better.

[Thespio]

Yeah, and you did this:

Spoiler:

Right so for loopdan you had 'condemning evidence' for me your gut is guiding you? Im getting ready to my reads with a little more content, maybe that will help/hurt your opinion of me. Honestly rereading loopdans interactions you read kind of scummy, I saw your push as town, but that flip hurt you in my mind, your attitude was cocky and you werent willing to look at anyone else, then we come into D2 and you are upset i ask you for more reads and tell you not to tunnel.

You're misrepping me right now, and this is a big reason you're a scum read. Because you regularly do scummy things like this.

I didn't get upset that you asked me for reads. Pretty sure I made that pretty clear.
I also wasn't upset that you asked me to stop tunneling people - you never did that, and you also agreed that I shouldn't stop tunneling people, so you know this, too, is wrong.

I was upset because you acted like you had some sort of control over my play "we arent gonna have you tunnel one guy."

As far as reading you for different reasons, pretty sure you agreed with me that something was wrong with the loopdan read, so OMGUSing me for approaching my other reads differently is also dumb. Stop.

I honestly could see an RCE/Thespio scumteam RN.

1. That's not true. Munch disagreed with everything I said yesterday, and you actually agreed with me for the first part.
2. It is misrepping me, show me where I posted that I was upset that you told me not to tunnel/asked me for more reads. Show me how I got upset about that. Cuz I guarantee this is not me being upset about reads:

You and Magik are funny like this, acting like you have any control whatsoever about how I proceed with the gameday or like I have any intention of going through another loopdan situation again. Not to be an ass, but I don't care if I have your approval for anything I do. I'd really like to see more involvement from you, too. Pretty much anything past surface level reads and bad implementation of game theory/ generally too scummy to be scum behavior.

It's not even me being upset about you thinking tunnels are dumb. It's me being upset about you saying "you aren't gonna do this."

And quit with the FOS crap. Put your vote on me and quit sitting on the fence. And again, that's not how my reads worked, you're assuming a position for me and then attacking that instead of responding to what I'm actually saying.

This is another reason you're scummy, you're going to try and get me all riled up by responding w/ OMGUS, and when that doesn't work (again) you're going to be like "this is TvT" (again) and then assume everyone will townread you.

I can case you later but you've done a load of scummy stuff this game.

I'm still disinclined to believe that scum!Enter would do such a massive deathtunnel and draw so much attention to himself Day 1 knowing that Loop would flip town. That doesn't really make his play good, since it definitely hasn't been most of the game, but his motivations aren't reading sour to me as much as overly eager to case people instead of thinking everything through.

This was my initial thought, but the fact he lynched based on his own sense of logic D1 and now is fishing for wagons D2 to me seems utterly susp. Also why would he defend munch? is it not normal to say you made a mistake and look at the people who did too (intentionally or not?) The fact his wagon is all town but they lynched a townie is super sketchy to me.

LOL. Two things:
1. You pushed loop.
2. You pushed elements.

You pushed one more town wagon than I did. You pushed a PR to the point of claiming. "the fact they lynched a townie is super sketchy" actually wtf.

1. Munch agreed with you and hes near the top of your town list. Point made.
2. Any time you have to say "Not to be an Ass" its you being an ass. Unless you are naturally an ass (which I interacted with you and thought you werent) it tends to be because of emotional turmoil.


2.5 IM NOT VOTING YOU BECAUSE I WANT TO LOOK AT MUNCH AND RCE. You getting on me seemed off though which is the purpose of my post, you arent my first or second pick, but the guys i want arent engaging with me or in munches case interacting with anyone because they are opportunistically posting.

Thats where I am at.

1. Munch disagreed with me on both Loop AND elements. This is what you get for skimming my ISO instead of actually reading it.
2. You're misrepping me and hiding behind "you're a jerk." Stop. That's not an excuse.

You pushed a PR to the point of claiming. "the fact they lynched a townie is super sketchy" actually wtf.

Let me just stop this right there. As I said in my response to Muh pushing on people gets more information about their alignment, and is generally a good thing to do if something is off there. The fact that it was a PR that was acting scummy and got pushed doesn't mean jack about the validity of the push, and Elements himself said that the points made against him were valid. This is not something you can hold against him like this.

His point is that you're townreading anyone who sided with you to kill Loop, and that is still pretty valid looking at your current readslist. Muh is actually a prime example of it in action, since you've said that Muh clearly had a reason to scumread Loop before your case pushed him into action, even though Muh never once put said reasoning out. It's altogether easy for anyone to say "Oh yeah, I totally believed this before your case", and I find it concerning that you just took him at his word.

I feel like this is the second (third?) post where someone takes Thespio's 2(two) points, makes an excuse for one, and then tries to validate the other through some strange jump in logic, with the landing being the assumption that if the second point is correct, the first one also is.

Let's fix this here and now.
1. Elements wasn't acting scummy. He said things that sounded scummy, but he wasn't acting scummy. I have a feeling someone isn't going to read the whole thing that I'm about to say, will take that first sentence, talk about how THEY THOUGHT elements was scummy and then consider my entire first point defeated, just because that's how most of these engagements have gone so far. Why you shouldn't do that, is because this point is completely and totally irrelevant of whether or not elements was acting scummy or not, Thespio's point against me was that I pushed town to lynch and that somehow makes me scummy. My point in return, is that he pushed two town players, and one of them was a PR, so calling me on this is dumb.

2. No, he's saying I'm scumreading anyone who disagreed with me, and that's an important distinction to make, because that's ACTUALLY wrong, and not just a correlation between my reads and what happened yesterday, as I previously pointed out.

The part two of point two here, is that you're ALSO wrong, because muh did provide reasoning for his read (spoilered later) and in addition, you're assuming that my town read is based on the fact that they agreed with me.

Ah, classic Loop. Stalling the game and trying to push another lynch just to survive another day. First he tried to push my lynch but that didn't go anywhere. As soon as he saw the opportunity of another possible wagon on Elements, he jumped on it immediately.

Its less about rushing anything and moreso HE LITERALLY SAYS HE IS TOWN AND STILL WANTS HIM DEAD. THIS IS THE SCUMMIEST POST OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VOTE: Elements Everything put together against loop, even from what i see is only a fraction of how skummy this post is.

Sure his post was scummy but I still don't see it as a basis for a lynch. Thespio, when you said you would rather self-lynch than have a NL, isn't that sort of the same situation? In that situation, you want town dead for information. In Elements situation, he also wants town dead for information. What separates the two?

Muh is another player to watch out for. OMGUS is a terrible reason to vote anyone this late in the day, especially when the source of that OMGUS is from really early in the day. He's a SE player. If he was a newbie I'd be more lenient given that new players tend to make that argument fairly often, but he should know better than to lean on OMGUS as a reason even if it's just "fuel on the fire". That's not even mentioning the "If you so strongly feel you're town" line which is just terrible.

I'd also expect him to know how to prodge better than 306, but that's admittedly not very AI. He would've been better off saying "This is a prodge. Loop is still scummy", as that would count as enough content to reset the prod timer instead of making one of the worst nitpicks I've seen this game though. I have to wonder if he couldn't find anything better to poke at or something.

What so terrible about the "If you so strongly feel you're town" line? I've noticed that both you and Loop are both hunting for excuses to jump on wagons. First you both did it with my comment about "If you so strongly feel you're town" and then subsequently did it with Elements post. I know Loop is trying to get the wagon off himself, but I feel like you've been pocketed by him and are trying to save him no matter what chance you get.

Nobody else commented on that except for you two which just goes to show how you both are trying to reach at whatever you can get so that this Loop lynch doesn't happen.

Regarding the second point, I was skimming through the game and saw it. I knew if I said "Loop is scum" he would've thrown a fit so I avoided that.

Which fights do you mean besides Elements?

Thespio is still at L-2 and we have no idea why. That wagon was lost between the main fight. Same for PvtUrist, there was some talks of PvtUrist scum but that didn't go anywhere.

If anybody is thinking of hammering, they should wait until after Pvt posts something useful.

Please don't let a hammer drop without allowing me one more post.

I have updated reads but I'd rather wait until there is an intent to hammer.

And I'd appreciate being taken off L-1 until this happens to avoid an "accidental hammer" from one of the lurkers.

This feels weird to me. It seems like you're just buying yourself time.

Please provide a couple sentence (or even just bullet points) on why you think I'm scum.

Your play in general and because I'm still OMGUSing you from you ignoring me in the beginning of the game. Your attitude didn't help either when Enter called you out. This is the attitude I'm talking about

pedit: Wow Loop. I thought you'd be better than this as an IC. The pity play is not making you look good man, just sayin'.

100% fair. I'll own this. I'll also probably never IC again. You'll see post-game that I really wanted to make this game a positive experience for newbies because we tend to lose them nowadays. But this game smacked me in the face with the reality that I shouldn't be doing this if I can't devote the time and effort to the game.

To me it comes across as trying to get town's sympathy and felt fake to me. I share Enter's points about flip-flop voting, sheeping, etc so I don't need to restate those.

Anyway, I don't think there's a point in starting up another wagon at this point. The main event in day 1 was Enter vs Loop and I want to see this battle go out to till the end.

The only thing I would add to that post is that scum!Loop would have self-hammered here before town starting looking past Loopdan-Enter.

Can you clarify this? Why would a scum player self-hammer?

Here's the thing: Everybody posting here recently is showing genuine-looking frustration.

Both scum are likely among the inactive players:
Munchmellow
Elements
Muh316
PvtUrist

There's an outside chance of scum!Thespio. I've been going back and forth on that these last pages but can't nail him down.

I'd still like responses to 477 and for the five players above to chime in before end of day. And I'd appreciate being taken off L-1 until this happens to avoid an "accidental hammer" from one of the lurkers.

Don't you think there's a higher chance of scum being from the players that are on your wagon if you so strongly feel that you're town?

Magik, I think you're being pocketed. Loop's sweet talk might be getting to you.

1. Munch disagreed with me on both Loop AND elements. This is what you get for skimming my ISO instead of actually reading it.
2. You're misrepping me and hiding behind "you're a jerk." Stop. That's not an excuse.

Hmm, I must have misread him, regardless your bottom 3 are all people who weren't with you, and you were wrong, why are all the people on your wagon town?

2. Dude im not hiding behind anything, cool you think its susp i didn't want to hammer someone that evolved. I agreed he looked scummy until he got into it with you, as soon as he did i felt he was town, elements who hid all game, while actively watching the game. He looked scum, and when i was on V/LA he began posting. I didn't even see his PR claim until D2 because it ended before i could review what happened. More importantly, blaming the people who picked him up as susp on d1 is stupid, If anything it puts us as town. Loop flipped town, we read him as town at the end of the day, so we looked at the next susp player. Anyone who votes someone they think is town with a ton of time remaining is acting against town. If I kept my vote there I would have seen myself as scum.


PEDIT, i read your whole post you dummy.

1) Someone who lurks, shows up to post, calls someone town and votes them. These are all scum attributes. Im not saying the number of town you push makes you bad, the number of town you kill makes you bad. I didnt get on elements because i suspected a potential power role to post scummy things. And like I said above in this post, I was on V/LA when he came out.

2)Muh echoed you, hard, look at your own ISO. Make sure you arent reading people because they agree with you or you will get pocketed. which is what i think is going to happen in this game, today you will push me/horse, skum will wagon with you Then tomorrow they will push the other with you. then we all lose because you couldnt criticize people who agree with you.

Actually stop saying things that are objectively wrong. Muh is in the bottom three (technically four) of my reads list. You can't just cherry pick what you want to read and ignore the facts.
Also I haven't pushed Magik today at all.
Who showed up to the game thread called someone town and then voted them? Please quote this for me because I'm pretty sure I've missed it.

And we got down to deadline w/ no lynch. Who was it yesterday who said they'd rather lynch themselves (conftown) than no lynch? Oh wait.

Your reasoning over calling me scummy because loop flipped town is only reasonable considering the fact that having less town players is worse for town. Under that same reasoning, pushing town players to claim PR and get NK'd is also worse for town. => Your reasoning here is dumb, please drop it.

1. Elements wasn't acting scummy. He said things that sounded scummy, but he wasn't acting scummy. I have a feeling someone isn't going to read the whole thing that I'm about to say, will take that first sentence, talk about how THEY THOUGHT elements was scummy and then consider my entire first point defeated, just because that's how most of these engagements have gone so far. Why you shouldn't do that, is because this point is completely and totally irrelevant of whether or not elements was acting scummy or not, Thespio's point against me was that I pushed town to lynch and that somehow makes me scummy. My point in return, is that he pushed two town players, and one of them was a PR, so calling me on this is dumb.

What else was anyone gonna do to get some outside information going on here? There was no other "scummy acting" going on besides the lurking squad that wasn't going to respond in a decent timeframe to make the push worthwhile, which is coincidentally why the Muh wagon broke up Day 1. You're putting the blame on him for taking the only available road to try and get some better information on other players, which is overall not cool.

No, what's not cool is pretending a town flip means everyone on the wagon was scummy. I don't know how you still don't get the point of this: I'm not calling Thesp scum because he pushed elements and loop. I'm saying Thesp's reasoning for calling me scum based solely on the fact that I was on loop's wagon when he flipped town is bad, and showing him in an example that is easily accessible why that is bad.

2. No, he's saying I'm scumreading anyone who disagreed with me, and that's an important distinction to make, because that's ACTUALLY wrong, and not just a correlation between my reads and what happened yesterday, as I previously pointed out.

The part two of point two here, is that you're ALSO wrong, because muh did provide reasoning for his read (spoilered later) and in addition, you're assuming that my town read is based on the fact that they agreed with me.

Muh's reason is a very, very lackluster "I think it looks fake" with no explanation on why and "I agree with Enter on top of that". That barely qualifies as an explanation given how vague and easy to make up it is. Had he actually explained why it "felt fake" I'd be inclined to agree with you on that.

Also, you have yet to give us any information to the contrary regarding your reads. With a lack of information for why you read people as you do, we must fill in the blanks with what we see, and that's exactly what it looks like from the outside perspective. You have only yourself to blame for that by not explaining your reads basically at all unless you're tunneling them.

Let me get this straight: You are drawing assumptions instead of asking questions, and you're blaming me for your failure? How does this add up for you?

I'm not discussing muh right now, because if I do I'll be biased to TR him based solely on the fact that I'm in the middle of an argument with both of you, and you continuously misrepresent and fail to understand the points of my case. Once we have this worked out, I'm more willing to approach my reads from a place of dispassion and I'm less likely to put them somewhere other than where they really are.

Who showed up to the game thread called someone town and then voted them? Please quote this for me because I'm pretty sure I've missed it.

Elements with this string of posts, although he technically voted Loop and then called him Town, not the other way around:

post 562 seems utterly irrelevant to anything. Can people stop letting loopdan waste time and lynch him VOTE: loopdan

i don't think you're scum.

I think you are town

but the lynch that will give us the most information when you flip. The rest of the conversations going on are the same thing that's been going on for two days and all it's doing is making people angry with the game

WAIT, WTF IS THIS. If he is town you get the same info as if he is town, how does this make any sense, can we all quickly evaluate Elements?

this was poorly worded it sould've been: "

i think loopdan is town

, but his lynch will tell us the most information"

The wagon came shortly thereafter.

Oh I see what you're getting at. I disagree that that was scummy, but p sure we had that discussion before.

Who showed up to the game thread called someone town and then voted them? Please quote this for me because I'm pretty sure I've missed it.

Elements did:

i don't think you're scum. I think you are town but the lynch that will give us the most information when you flip. The rest of the conversations going on are the same thing that's been going on for two days and all it's doing is making people angry with the game

This was his post after voting loopdan in post 163

I agree that you just being on the wagon doesnt make you scum, i do think like i said that the majority of your scum (as you pointed out there was 1 outlier) are all the people who didnt want to kill town. Why in gods green earth wouldnt i just have agreed with you as scum, you have a loud voice, your posts are walls, scum imo would want you pocketed, or want you to think they were in your pocket. seriously do the math, 2 of the 7 of us are bad, so only 5 town, scum would have spent most of yesterday preparing to ML today. so loopdans ML is where we should start, that makes horse town (admittedly this makes my munch read wrong) Munch town, im obv town. RCE is still in deep shit from their predecessor and they didnt vote to save town they just didnt vote at all.

Wait let me get this straight: Your argument is that scum guaranteed did not vote loopdan? LOL

Let's go down the list of reasons you didn't hammer:
1. WK points
2. Scummy quickhammers
3. Dragging out day for town points = more town points
4. Looked like loop would get lynched anyways and you'd get points for not being on it.

Now let's talk about how it's super funny that this reasoning appears out of thin air after we've been in day two for a while and it completely flips your munch read, but it makes so much sense to you? Lol

Oh I see what you're getting at. I disagree that that was scummy, but p sure we had that discussion before.

So if i said "Enter I think you are town" and voted you, that would make you tr me?

We already had this discussion. I can quote myself at you, or you can read my ISO. Either way, he didn't just say "loopdan I think you're town" and vote him. Pls stop cherry picking your arguments.

Ultimately elements was a mistake, but his string of posts was the most scum filled thing i had seen all game, loops activity made me see them as town, prior when they were avoiding confrontation i saw your point. So when i see yesterday, with the 5 of you on loop, 2 of those 5 ruled out (horse because he was on elements for legit reasons, and elements being dead, it leaves the remaining 3 as susp.

WTF are you misrepping here?

I didnt hammer because i wasnt online, when i posted intent i didnt get back on until he was dead. Im running theories here, your wagon contained scum. PERIOD. you are now in my bottom two because i miss read munch. so you are my first suspect.

and yes, i know he didnt in the same post, but he called him town, voted him, then called him town again. can you literally stop tunnelling and objectively evaluate your wagon? or is that to hard, at this point ignoring you progresses this game more then interacting with you. you arent building you are muddying the game.

Good. Vote me please.

First I want to get some things straight real quick tho:
1. The fact that elements was a mistake IS THE POINT. Loopdan was also a mistake, and the fact that you excuse elements but not loop is what I'm pointing out as flawed.
2. You've been misrepping me and "muddying the game" since I scumread you a couple posts ago, which is the same thing you did the last time I scumread you.
3. There is no wagon on you, stop using buzzwords to sound like you know what you're talking about.
4. Your argument is that loopdan flipped town => there was scum on his wagon. But what I'm trying to get you to realize, is that if Elements wasn't a PR, he also would have flipped town, and loopdan wouldn't have flipped at all. And you would be scumreading an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SET OF PEOPLE. Someone even dropped an intent to hammer on elements.

I'm pointing out how absolutely DEVOID OF LOGIC your argument is and you're calling me scum and misrepping me.

Also out of curiosity, what is it that you think that I'm misrepping you on?

You cant take any pressure, you get all flustered, feel like you are being misrepped which you arent. shitpost with stuff like this:

Wait let me get this straight: Your argument is that scum guaranteed did not vote loopdan? LOL

Let's go down the list of reasons you didn't hammer:
1. WK points
2. Scummy quickhammers
3. Dragging out day for town points = more town points
4. Looked like loop would get lynched anyways and you'd get points for not being on it.

which isnt even anything to do with my post.

M8 chill, im being objective, i didnt tunnel someone into oblivion, and even while questioning you notice i still have someone i suspect more. Ill grant you it might have been a mistake, but you still miss the mark everywhere else.

LOL who can't take pressure? I voted you and you reacted like this:

"we arent gonna have you tunnel one guy."

As far as reading you for different reasons, pretty sure you agreed with me that something was wrong with the loopdan read, so OMGUSing me for approaching my other reads differently is also dumb. Stop.

I did agree but you never progressed beyond that, you didnt push anyone else, when we have 4 active players (you, me, loopdan, and Horse) its hard to actually get accurate reads on anyone. Also the fact you see RCE as scum and me as scum confirms to me that you only scumread people who dont agree with you. You attacked Horse for the same thing, notice your reads, you put him at the bottom. I think everyone ought to seriously look at the fact you hard tunneled a townie yesterday and now you are trying to put shade on anyone who resisted or didnt vote your way. Its not missrepping when you literally post it

Rough draft:

Town

Skellen
Munch
Thespio/Muh
===
Magik
RCE

Scum

This is weird for me cuz I think there's prolly only one scum between Magik/RCE, but that's where I sit atm.

Oh dang there it is. You putting the people who didnt shift. Beyond that your reason for lynching me is that im omgusing, except im not, ive not voted you im reading your iso. i can summarize it:

Tunnels Loopdan
interacts with me (still tunnelling loopdan)
Tunnels Loopdan
Attacks Horse (still tunnelling loopdan)
Lynches Loopdan
Loopdan flips green
Puts everyone who was off loopdan or was hesitant to vote loop on their scum list.


I just want to know why you think scum werent on your wagon, and im not TR RCE you are just the most obvscum right now, FOS on Enter.

And yeah, it does have to do with your post, you said

Why in gods green earth wouldnt i just have agreed with you as scum

Please actually chill and pay attention

The first bit of 1066 is already being discussed between the two of you, so I'm cutting that piece out since it's no longer relevant.

Let me get this straight: You are drawing assumptions instead of asking questions, and you're blaming me for your failure? How does this add up for you?

Nice loaded question, but that doesn't do much to change the fact that you can't expect us to be able to read your mind. If you don't explain things you're just leaving yourself open to interpretation, which is your own consequence of not explaining them.

Take a moment if you need to to get over the arguments you've just been in/are still in, then please enlighten us on your reasoning instead of just tossing blame at us for misunderstanding your unexplained reads. That's honestly a better way to kill that off as an argument than arguing the validity of filling in your holes.

I'm not asking you to read my mind, I'm asking you to ask questions if you have them, because I, also, cannot read your mind and know what you need/want more information on.

There is no wagon on you, stop using buzzwords to sound like you know what you're talking about.

dude you hard core were fishing for wagons, you popped your vote down, saw someone vote me, and voted me because reasons. XD you are so anti town that if you arent scum you should re-evaluate your play style.

Lol . So now you're assuming every time someone puts down a vote, they're "fishing for wagons?" What even is that?
And regardless, that doesn't change the fact that there is STILL no wagon on you, which makes what you said STILL wrong.

Also, I thought I was your primary target? Why is your vote still not on me?

Finally, I'm "anti town" because I put votes on people that I think are scummy? Please explain yourself more here, because I'm not the person that has been misrepresenting people all of day two.

You flipped out when i suggested we not ignore your skummy wagon.

Dude we talked about this D1, I want to look at PVTs slot. I want RCE to explain the shiftyness of their slot and why their vote didnt move.

Also im not failing to be objective you are just arent explaining yourself you just say you were misrepped.

[MagikHorse]

I'm not asking you to read my mind, I'm asking you to ask questions if you have them, because I, also, cannot read your mind and know what you need/want more information on.

After dragging on the whole first day in a quest to get more information including detailed readslists, why would you think I wouldn't want this? Readslists are always better off with descriptions of why people are there or what has changed since the last time, with no exceptions I can think of. More information in general is better unless there's a reason not to put it out (e.g. suspecting that someone is a PR).

Either way, just prove us wrong if you can by explaining them. This argument is pointless and is only going to yield frustration.

[Thespio]

I'm not asking you to read my mind, I'm asking you to ask questions if you have them, because I, also, cannot read your mind and know what you need/want more information on.

After dragging on the whole first day in a quest to get more information including detailed readslists, why would you think I wouldn't want this? Readslists are always better off with descriptions of why people are there or what has changed since the last time, with no exceptions I can think of. More information in general is better unless there's a reason not to put it out (e.g. suspecting that someone is a PR).

Either way, just prove us wrong if you can by explaining them. This argument is pointless and is only going to yield frustration.

I agree with this.

[Enter]

You flipped out when i suggested we not ignore your skummy wagon.

This is circular logic at it's finest. My hands are actually shaking right now because I don't understand how you cannot comprehend what you are saying. Let's try and break this down into small, easy-to-swallow pieces, alright?

1. You say that I am wagoning you when there are literally no other votes on you.
2. You say that I flipped out because you said that I am wagoning you.
3. Your explanation for why I was flipping out is because you accused me of wagoning you.
4. Your explanation for me wagoning you is a quote wall of me flipping out.
5. You say that I flip out because you accuse me of wagoning you
6. You say that I am wagoning you as an example of me flipping out.

Please. I don't know how to explain this in simpler terms. Maybe someone else can explain it to you, but this is actually very bad.

Dude we talked about this D1, I want to look at PVTs slot. I want RCE to explain the shiftyness of their slot and why their vote didnt move.

Also im not failing to be objective you are just arent explaining yourself you just say you were misrepped.

I've explained multiple times how you're misrepresenting me. Just because you ignore my explanations doesn't cause them to fail to exist.

Please vote me if I am your prime target right now.

[Thespio]

Talk about not reading posts

[Enter]

I'm not asking you to read my mind, I'm asking you to ask questions if you have them, because I, also, cannot read your mind and know what you need/want more information on.

After dragging on the whole first day in a quest to get more information including detailed readslists, why would you think I wouldn't want this? Readslists are always better off with descriptions of why people are there or what has changed since the last time, with no exceptions I can think of. More information in general is better unless there's a reason not to put it out (e.g. suspecting that someone is a PR).

Either way, just prove us wrong if you can by explaining them. This argument is pointless and is only going to yield frustration.

It's already yielded frustration, I honestly feel like you're just trying to get moral high ground here, even though you're the one that made the mistake. Whatever, it doesn't matter. Can you please explain why Thespio's logic is circular to him in better words than the ones I used?

I'm not asking you to read my mind, I'm asking you to ask questions if you have them, because I, also, cannot read your mind and know what you need/want more information on.

After dragging on the whole first day in a quest to get more information including detailed readslists, why would you think I wouldn't want this? Readslists are always better off with descriptions of why people are there or what has changed since the last time, with no exceptions I can think of. More information in general is better unless there's a reason not to put it out (e.g. suspecting that someone is a PR).

Either way, just prove us wrong if you can by explaining them. This argument is pointless and is only going to yield frustration.

I agree with this.

Ofc you do, I bet you don't understand a word in it either, you just know he's on your side and you're looking for someone to help you not feel dumb for the past couple pages.

[Enter]

Talk about not reading posts

Someone please help Thesp understand why his logic is circular. I'm about to have an aneurism.

[Thespio]

Puts vote on X (no traction) >> puts vote on Y, player is active and replies >> keeps vote in hopes others will misslynch because scum or anti town. Very linear.

You still aren’t reading my posts.

[Enter]

Puts vote on X (no traction) >> puts vote on Y, player is active and replies >> keeps vote in hopes others will misslynch because scum or anti town. Very linear.

You still aren’t reading my posts.

So now your argument is every time someone changes where their vote is, they're looking for a mislynch? Funny, you changed your vote a lot yesterday to gain traction. I also didn't move my vote very much at all yesterday.

Also this is different from the circular "fishing for wagon."

[Enter]

You can't just accuse someone of not reading your posts just because you don't like/don't understand what they say.

[Thespio]

You can't just accuse someone of not reading your posts just because you don't like/don't understand what they say.

How about because you only responded to half of my post?

[MagikHorse]

Can you please explain why Thespio's logic is circular to him in better words than the ones I used?

Why are you trying to get me to make your arguments for you? That's not my job.

Honestly though, you're both flipping out at each other and it's making it hard to keep up or understand much of it while also making my own posts between. It's starting to feel all too reminiscent of the Enter/Loop war, with neither side really capable of getting their points across to the other.

[Enter]

You can't just accuse someone of not reading your posts just because you don't like/don't understand what they say.

How about because you only responded to half of my post?

How about you don't respond to more than a few words of my post, and often in a way that makes literally no sense whatsoever.

How about this:

We solve this whole thing:
You quote whatever part of whatever post it is you want more responded to that I missed, and then you try and respond to all the parts of my posts that you missed (I would quote them for you but I have to go do something really quick). When I get back, I'll quote for you anything else I want you to respond to.

Then we will work through each and every one of your arguments and discuss why some of them are circular, some of them are dumb, and some of them I might have misunderstood or I might have been dumb on. Seem fair?

PEdit: I don't want you to make my argument for me, it's not my argument, it's Thespio's. You've made arguments for him several times.

[Thespio]

Ill get too it after im off work, gimme a few hours, its why my posts are short.

[Thespio]

In post 1037, RCEnigma wrote:
In the unvote section Muh should be Thespio instead. Muh is in there twice as a vote on magic and not voting. Also Magik is striked out twice

Also i will leave this here for the guy who thinks he is solo on me.

[Enter]

So I just re-skimmed every page since beginning of day 2 looking to quote every time Thespio was voted by someone who was not me, but I cannot quote what is not there.

Please, prove me wrong. Quote the vote on you, Thespio.