Prey Mafia - Game Over

[Papa Zito]

Oh hell yes, I open this thing and there aren't 10 zillion posts.

VOTE: Enter obv

[Papa Zito]

Am I missing something

[Papa Zito]

Am I missing something

what was this referring to?

Chara's 22 but it turns out I did, indeed, miss something.

My internet connection is out at home so I was reading this on mobile. I dunno why people actually prefer tiny screens to desktops with keyboards.

There's too many words here :/

rofl

[Papa Zito]

Hey mcqueen.

Did you know there's a viable Enter wagon happening

right now

[Papa Zito]

Ya'll bailed on the Enter wagon way too fast.

Kids these days I swear.

[Papa Zito]

Persivul needs to be lynched for calling Zito Papa.

What if I liked it tho.

Ya'll bailed on the Enter wagon way too fast.

Kids these days I swear.

Why are you using ya'll to refer to me alone

Behold, Enter sits at 4 votes. Yea verily, the future is an open book to one who has trodden the path.

[Papa Zito]

Don't worry though, I'll lead you all to Nirvana.

VOTE: Robert2424


You're welcome.

[Papa Zito]

@mod, you missed one

Also, I wanna make something fairly clear.
VOTE: Varsoon

This should clear things up for Chara, at least.

I acknowledge this post. VC 1.5 looks correct.

oho

[Papa Zito]

VOTE: Fish
this is more fun, actually. for 48 and the next three posts in his ISO.

What's your issue here exactly?

[Papa Zito]

NO I DEMAND


ok

[Papa Zito]

As the neighborhood seems to serve little purpose, I suggest we simply don't use it so that there's no confusion about what's being said where.

[Papa Zito]

Yeah I'm just kindof an ass, call it becoming jaded watching people do things over 10 years, apologies in advance.

From what I can tell I'm on the same wavelength with His Majesty the King on most everything, which scares me a little bit.

I also don't wanna kill Chara yet which is a new an exciting experience.

[Papa Zito]

Have you played w/ Chara before?


======

In other news this seems like the sort of game where the mod would give us an all - town hood (but wouldn't tell us for the purpose of balance), so once we get a little more concrete in our reads, I'm ok w/ using hood chat again.

We played together in this game which was a lot longer ago than I thought hmm.

If we get a red flip from the hood crew I'm fine going back there but until then it may as well be Chernobyl.


In other news Robert2424 continues to be inscrutable, I'd appreciate some help increasing his scrutableness.

[Papa Zito]

From what I can tell I'm on the same wavelength with

His Majesty the King

on most everything, which scares me a little bit.

sorry, who is this?

That's Persivul's title.

[Papa Zito]

1. Lynch outside hood to see if it comes up red (if so, and we can draw conclusions that the other is red, then inside is green)

What does this mean exactly?

I'm dumb, use small words.

[Papa Zito]

1. Lynch outside hood to see if it comes up red (if so, and we can draw conclusions that the other is red, then inside is green)

What does this mean exactly?

I'm dumb, use small words.

Yo I'd still like an answer here por favor.

[Papa Zito]

we suspect the other person outside the neighborhood is the other scum

So I'm reading this as Enter somehow knowing there are 2 scum in the game.

Am I nuts

[Papa Zito]

Guess I was just jumping at shadows.

VC 1.8

[2] Almost50:

skitter30, implosion

[1] Enter:

BrightEyedFish

[1] redtea:

Robert2424

[1] Robert2424:

Papa Zito

[1] skitter30:

minhyukwithagun

[1] Persivul:

Enter

[1] BrightEyedFish:

Chara

[1] minhyukwithagun:

Persivul

[1] skitter30:

Almost50

[3] Not Voting:

redtea, Varsoon, mcqueen

This is a goddamn travesty.

i'm townleaning minyu.

Why in the world would you lean town on that slot. As a reminder, minyu's last post was:

So I don't have any reads

That's encouraging

[Papa Zito]

I'm definitely not questioning the vote.

Have you played with minyu before? Or some other reason why you'd assume a town player is less likely to cough up reads?

[Papa Zito]

As the neighborhood seems to serve little purpose, I suggest we simply don't use it so that there's no confusion about what's being said where.

?

what

[Papa Zito]

I'll catch up at lunch today.

@Mod:

Forgot to mention I have a standing V/LA on weekends, sorry.

Noted.

[Papa Zito]

My reasoning was his inactivity.

McQueen has the most posts in the thread. Why are you still voting him?

[Papa Zito]

I guess there could be three? IDK, what makes sense here?

right, you did reply.
i'd guess three based on pure numbers. what made you think two?

I was thinking about a different setup at the time.

Which setup were you thinking of?

[Papa Zito]

Aha. That answers it for me, thanks.


I have 3 good scumreads and a Super Secret Pocket Scumread + a handful of good townreads, this is gr8.

[Papa Zito]

a mood


as the kids would say

[Papa Zito]

Aha. That answers it for me, thanks.


I have 3 good scumreads and a Super Secret Pocket Scumread + a handful of good townreads, this is gr8.

Wanna share with the class?

I don't think it makes sense to do so at this point.

[Papa Zito]

My reasoning was his inactivity.

McQueen has the most posts in the thread. Why are you still voting him?

Are you paying attention?

Let's pretend I'm not. Illuminate me.

[Papa Zito]

Why you trying to say my vote on Mcqueen was same reasons as my reasons as my reasoning for voting Redtea earlyeir.

.

Ok, let's go through this step by step.

Vote Mcqueen

Policy.

Here you vote Mcqueen for "policy." You're asked about what policy means.

Naked votes are lack of effort and scummy.

Because more often then not its a scum tactic, Happened in a recent game and I'm not going to change my mind simply cause you vote me. Surprise surprise who flipped scum that game too....

So here you're saying what the policy is and why. Note that you're continuing to talk about Mcqueen here. Redtea is not mentioned.

I voted for activity, there is a difference.

Here you defend again. And again, no mention of redtea.

Why you trying to say my vote on Mcqueen was same reasons as my reasons as my reasoning for voting Redtea earlyeir.

Now suddenly you're trying to say we're talking about redtea? Hello?

Explain why your vote remains on Mcqueen.

[Papa Zito]

Oh lord have mercy the teehee meta has arrived.

[Papa Zito]

Why thank you.

A robert vote would be a great present.

[Papa Zito]

There's nothing gut about it. Show me one redeeming post from that slot. One nugget that promotes a town agenda.

[Papa Zito]

Where's my @

[Papa Zito]

Why the Robert scumread? I feel as though he's about to be the low-content, low-charisma, "Who is this guy again, oh shit deadline we need a lynch uhhh byebye" Day 1 obligatory mislynch. I don't see content worth scumreading, he's just sortofhere. Share your vision with me bbz

You mean you didn't have an @ for me?



I kinda answered this on the previous page:

There's nothing gut about it. Show me one redeeming post from that slot. One nugget that promotes a town agenda.

I can expand on this, I suppose.

1. This slot has not engaged with the game in any meaningful way whatsoever.
2. This slot has not provided any information to the game whatsoever.
3. This slot has dodged attempts to make it do 1 or 2.

You could simply chalk that up standard Vi play sure, but let me ask you this: When this pattern repeats on Day 2, what will you do about it? Day 3? Day 4? How excited will you be to stand next to Robert in Lylo? Because I guarantee you, if this guy does happen to be town, he'll be there.

[Papa Zito]

i'm playing kingdom hearts. you should understand that this momentous occasion takes precedence.

I'm jealous. How is it?

Because herein lies my problem, I don't hold to the idea that a lack of townliness is the presence of scumliness. Voting for Robert here isn't a vote for scum so much as it is voting to punish someone for playing poorly, and I have no confidence that that leads to a lynch on scum.

What's your plan to get that slot sorted?

words

Thanks for repeating everything Elbirn said I guess.

[Papa Zito]

I'm anticipating another wall of random Chatbot words so I'll just point out here that Robert once again dodged my question.

Like Enter, I'm mainly busy playing KH3.

That game came out yesterday, this game started 10 days ago, try again.

I mainly have 3 town reads atm. Implosion, a slight A50 town read, only cause he is half crazy, and elbirn.
BEF is mainly null, along with skitter and Redtea. Chara is also null
Enter is slight scum read for over eagerness.
Papa for not paying attention,
and mcqueen for policy and mainly spamming.
Varsoon is to hard to read to say any read on, in one sense I've found his posts a bit more helpful but at the same time I feel our reads are entirely different and wondering if maybe his posting is messing with me like A50 dose.

What in the world.

I still don't like redtea being lynched. But I'll ISO red and Robert and see if one of them pings me for a lynch today.

Talk to me about redtea.

[Papa Zito]

mimic

yas

[Papa Zito]

Friendly reminder that deadline is in less than 2 days.

[Papa Zito]

Something the players should look at is the fact that no one from our PT is voting for redtea right now.

How do you feel about Persivuul pushing Robert here?

[Papa Zito]

Nah I'm good.

[Papa Zito]

haha pagetop suck it xtoxm

[Papa Zito]

Well that doesn't sound like me at all.

[Papa Zito]

jokes. but why wont you share any of them?

You literally quoted my response to this question.

[Papa Zito]

jokes. but why wont you share any of them?

You literally quoted my response to this question.

why is now not a good time

I'm gonna have to put this into my sig at some point.

Thesp was an IC of one of my first newbie games, and when pressed on this exact question he gave this response:

I strongly subscribe to a limited information theory of mafia in all directions - that is, there is a significant degree of information that everyone ought to keep secret and/or is trying to keep secret. (I think it's important to assess the motivations for keeping such things undisclosed, but it is not always as important to know for certain what people are keeping secret, aside from their alignments.) To that end, I will not explain my actions all the time, nor do I think I should. I do think I owe the town explanations from time to time, and if I expect to convince anyone, I absolutely ought to give more compelling reasons for people to follow along with me.

It is worth noting that I find this approach to be more useful in finding scum, and simultaneously I tend to draw more people thinking I look scummy when I employ it.

This has become a standard part of how I play, particularly early on in games when the scum team is least sure of itself. By not identifying who (beyond Robert obv) I find scummy, I'm keeping the scum team guessing on which of them I may suspect, and thus go after tomorrow. In addition, I'm not giving the scum team notice that I suspect them (again, beyond Robert), so they're less likely to alter what they're doing, which will make it easier for me to build cases on them later. By not identifying who I townread, I'm depriving the scum team of target info. Several players have given at least partial readslists here, so I think keeping them guessing on who we find most townie in general is valuable. However, I did want you guys to know that I do actually have reads - this game has had a pretty information rich Day 1 I think - so I made the post that I made.

@Town:

In other news, we are ~1 day to deadline. The time for vanity wagons is over. If you

really

feel you've hit scum outside the leading wagons you better come up with something super compelling.

[Papa Zito]

I didn't mean to quote that. :/

Hi. I have a question for you in 682. Please respond.

---

VOTE: BEF

Why me and not redtea or enter, I thought you wanted one of them lynched today?

Hi. I have a question for you in 673. Please respond.

In addition, walk me through your redtea vote. Your argument seems to be:

1. redtea sees she is the leading wagon
2. redtea sees a counterwagon on Robert
3. redtea sees that deadline is very close
4. redtea sees several players off wagon claiming they will hammer at deadline
5. Therefore, redtea comes up with the perfect plan of starting a

new

wagon, and then promptly fails to push it, ensuring it will fail.
6. After noting that she thought the wagon wasn't actually new, she leaves her vote there anyway.

And these are the moves of a scum player seeking a townie mislynch/her own survival. Is that correct?

[Papa Zito]

2 in a row baby

[Papa Zito]

2 in a row baby

2 what in a row?

Pagetops.

Ok, I'll take a trip on the insanity merry-go-round with you. What exactly has suddenly caused you to stop and ponder his alignment? Like, what sudden change in Persivul's posting made you hit the pause button and go hmm.

[Papa Zito]

Basically, yeah.

Woops, looks like the insanity merry-go-round was next door.

Uh

Can you uh

walk me through this then

---

I like persivul's 669, 671, 672, and 715. Partially because I agree with him, partially because he's making decent points, and partially because I'm townreading redtea and his thought process follows.

Ok, so it's his Robert push itself.

... I went back and reviewed your isos to get context and I think I understand what happened here ty.

[Papa Zito]

Sorry, that was unclear. I put that line in the middle to show it was 2 different responses. I just want you to walk me through the redtea stuff.

[Papa Zito]

Mcqueen is a policy, naking voting is crap and don't care what people say. It looks scummy to me, hence he's on my scum read.

There is less than 24 hours to deadline. You are the only mcqueen voter. Clearly your contention that "only scums do naked votes" isn't swaying anyone. How are you going to mcqueen lynched?

[Papa Zito]

contrasting redtea here who may have mad a subpar decision to try and start a new wagon, but is still happily open to the possibility of lynching Robert.

Where do you disagree with my 725 assessment of redtea?

Do you think Robert really needs to care about his wagon so long as redtea's continues to be the top one?

[Papa Zito]

? maybe i didn't convey what i'm saying well because i don't think either of you understood me

if robert flipped town i'd push: persivul, enter, papa zito and redtea
i would not push elbirn because i'm pretty sure he's town even though he's voting badly

Pretend Robert flipped town. Push me now.

---

saying "screw you" to the majority of the playerlist (not in so many words but rather in action) is something i find fairly towny. i also don't take disengagement or apathy as scummy, Enter, seeing as i see town do it unfortunately often.

Can you give me the redtea case in your own words please?

[Papa Zito]

Can you give me the redtea case in your own words please?

not a townread, and lower than a nullread. counter to a wagon i think is town. soft stances that don't commit and soft support of the Robert wagon.

So "counter to a wagon i think is town" and "soft support of the Robert wagon" both depend on the alignment of an unflipped player with no investigation. These are completely invalid.

"Soft stances that don't commit" is Robert's bread and butter:

I mainly have 3 town reads atm. Implosion, a slight A50 town read, only cause he is half crazy, and elbirn.

BEF is mainly null, along with skitter and Redtea. Chara is also hard to read earleir I would of said town but I can't commit to it anymore. So she moves back down to null though if I had to go by gut, if I had to take a stance, very slight scum.

Enter is slight scum read for over eagerness. Papa for not paying attention, and mcqueen for policy and mainly spamming.

Varsoon is to hard to read to say any read on, in one sense I've found his posts a bit more helpful but at the same time I feel our reads are entirely different and wondering if maybe his posting is messing with me like A50 dose.

Is that seriously it?

[Papa Zito]

but if he's town you've basically spent the last few days corraling votes onto lynchbait who didn't actually do anything scummy while contributing to the resistance of a wagon on someone who actually *has* been scummy; i said this already but i find pushing someone day1 for 'lack of towniness' (ie as opposed to pushing someone for being actively scummy) to be incredibly suspect and how scum garner mislynches

so how i read you is kinda flip-dependant

fascinating

[Papa Zito]

Unofficial vote count:

[6] Robert2424: Papa Zito, Enter, Elbirn, skitter, Persivul, {Varsoon}, redtea
[4] redtea: implosion, Chara, Almost50, BrightEyedFish
[1] mcqueen: Robert2424

[1] Not Voting: mcqueen

[Papa Zito]

These wagons are going to be worth gold later.

[Papa Zito]

tick tock, clarice

[Papa Zito]

I think his timing was rather good actually.

[Papa Zito]

I was thinking more from the perspective that it gave him maximum information on who was willing to push redtea down to the wire.

But yeah sure that one too.

[Papa Zito]

Good thing we didn't need your vote I guess.

Chara, why the 30 minute gap between promising to vote and actually doing so?

[Papa Zito]

Hello kids I'll read up at lunch.

[Papa Zito]

I think Zito's town from play yesterday and I'm curious to see what he has to say about the 'gold' he was gonna get from the wagons.

We're fortunate to know now that we had two competing Town wagons, which helps explain why it was so difficult to get a lynch on either one; the scum crew didn't care which one got lynched. We can now look in depth at who joined which wagons for what reasons. I'll be doing iso dives on this soon.

Who all is even in the hood, though?

Fish, Enter, Me, Persivuul, and redtea are the only ones who've posted there. We don't have a list though so it's entirely possible that another player is in the hood without us knowing.

if scum is in the hood, they took the shot feeling they'd still be safe and that town would eat themselves alive trying to lynch in the hood-pool.

Or maybe they felt the 2-for-1 was too good to pass up. Or maybe killing off redtea and Enter was worth the risk since Enter was invested. Maybe it was a defensive play because someone felt threatened by one of them.

because i was in class? why is this notable to you?

Why didn't you just vote when you said you were going to? What were you waiting for?

[Papa Zito]

Wait, so when Enter was scumreading you in the PT, you responded to that pressure by claiming you could conf-town in the PT?
And then Enter, who was saying he was going to go all out on you, got shot over you?

Has anyone else here played with BEF as scum before?

BEF responded to Enter's pressure in 3 ways:
1. Saying Enter is a liar and twisting everything BEF is saying;
2. Claiming the ability to become confirmed town;
3. Admitting to being a bad player who, if he were to suddenly started playing well, would be read as scum

[Papa Zito]

I am still waiting on more info before I "make my moves" too.

What info are you waiting on?

[Papa Zito]

So why was Enter scumreading BEF in the first place, then?

Enter first went after BEF for refusing to hammer. BEF responded that he set an alarm to come back to the thread 90 minutes before deadline hoping people would jump to redtea. BEF then said he probably wouldn't have hammered anyway.

Enter then believed BEF scumslipped. BEF stated he believed Enter had info on redtea, but that the info was not AI. Enter said the only way for BEF to know this is if BEF was scum with redtea. Clearly that wasn't the case.

[Papa Zito]

Way I see it is either BEF killed to protect himself after getting a juicy lovers claim
or
Scum in the hood saw a situation where BEF would look really bad and they could double kills on killing lover

I think the fluke of the kill landing how it did if there were no scum in the hood is too unlikely.

I agree with all of this.

[Papa Zito]

spare redtea, and if I was scum and had the option to shoot between redtea and BEF I would definitely shoot the former 10 times out of 10, just because BEF is always scummy and is very much mislynchable

This is incorrect for two reasons.

1. redtea had a perfectly viable wagon for most of Day 1. There's no doubt a mislynch could be achieved there.
2. BEF claimed the ability to conftown, making a mislynch extremely unlikely

[Papa Zito]

I'm still waiting for Fish's thing as well. I'd like to get that out of the way and eliminate that slot as a suspect before we move on.

[Papa Zito]

Perhaps you weren't paying attention, but based on my experience with BEF I wouldn't put much weight on anything he "claims"..

as town

! I understand you may or may not have played with him before, but I have and I've come to the conclusion I need to play another much more with him in order to begin to understand how he plays (which makes playing with him more fun because I'm genuinely challenged to deduce a way of reading him correctly).

I'm sorry, but this is moonbeams. You can't sit there and tell me I'm supposed to categorically ignore any claims made by a particular player just because in the past he did some wacky stuff. Also

you

seem to be forgetting that I wasn't the one evaluating his claim last night, the scum team was, because we were talking about killing motivations.

Unless you're telling us why you didn't believe his claim when you made the kill, of course.

[Papa Zito]

My gut says ascetic makes the most sense. In that case, I probably just got unlucky with my target.

OMG

Can we chalk this all up to that I'm just an idiot and move on?

...what?

What is this tee-hee oops guys just ignore let's move on nonsense?

You need to fullclaim.

[Papa Zito]

Don't see how a full claim actually helps us. You either believe BEF at this point or you don't.

I don't want further song and dance on this point. Pinning him down on a claim here and now helps us evaluate. I don't see how anyone can really be comfortable with how fish has acted here, especially given context of what happened last night in the hood and the NKs.

[Papa Zito]

also mimic

[Papa Zito]

And your target?

[Papa Zito]

I don't possibly see how that's true.

I also don't see how this role was supposed to confirm you as town in any context.

[Papa Zito]

I still don't feel comfortable outing my target as it will not help town atm.

Please explain this in depth.

[Papa Zito]

I still don't feel comfortable outing my target as it will not help town atm.

Please explain this in depth.

Your persistence on this feels overly scummy to me. It feels as if you

know

someone could be guiltied through this, and you want to make sure it's not the case.

I don't particularly care how it "feels" to you. This player slot is reluctant to give details to a claim when pressed which I find highly suspect, so I'm going to pursue it until satisfied. You're free to do something you find useful in the meantime.

[Papa Zito]

I still don't feel comfortable outing my target as it will not help town atm.

Please explain this in depth.

Still waiting on this.

I still think mcqueen is like, strong town just from yesterday.

You've said this a few times I think. Can you explain what's so strongly town about McQueen?

[Papa Zito]

I still don't feel comfortable outing my target as it will not help town atm.

Please explain this in depth.

Still waiting on this.

Then keep waiting.

You can't explain why outing your target doesn't benefit the town?

[Papa Zito]

I'm really not interested in a Persivul lynch.

And I'm not getting cooperation from anyone. So uh. I don't know what the fuck to do this game.

[Papa Zito]

Persivul, we're running really low on time. I know nobody has threatened hammer yet but given how this town is I think it makes sense for you to claim now so we can evaluate and possibly shift elsewhere.

[Papa Zito]

I'll bite, how do you get no result?

Not sure what you mean. It's nothing with my role. I get Typhon Phantom, Not a Typhon Phantom, or No Result, like a typical cop. Either I was blocked or it's something with A50.

Almost50

, is there anything about your role that would prevent someone from getting an investigation result on you?

[Papa Zito]

Also yes thank fuck someone is finally talking sense.

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

[Papa Zito]

hmmmmmm

[Papa Zito]

Persivul you didn't soft anything on Day 1 did you?

[Papa Zito]

Memories of this game are already mercifully fading fast.

[Papa Zito]

lynching players like Papa Zito for lying by omission

? What did I lie about?