Newbie 1915: Africa [Game Over!]

[northsidegal]

VC 1.11

votes

[3] skitter30

:

Elements 263, MaryJoLisa2 289, cbynumber 345

[2] MaryJoLisa2

:

BBmolla 162, NotMySpamAccount 167

[2] Dick Richards

:

skitter30 8, TTTT 320

[1] TTTT

:

Salami 317

[1] Not Voting

:

Dick Richards

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-02-10 15:56:59)

Mod Notes

: skitter30 is V/LA until Tuesday the 5th.

[skitter30]

Skitter is our ic and as such, it’s her responsibility to keep the game moving and answer questions. She’s done a good job of that, but I don’t see her actually doing any scum hunting herself.

i think i said this like twice already - i moved across the country yesterday/today; this game has not exactly been my priority over the last couple of days
at the same time, i'm the ic of this game, and i view it as my responsibility to answer questions people may have as they come up, so i've been making sure to keep an eye on things so that i can do that and that's what i'm focusing on when i'm here - i'm not really *in* this game yet, and said i would be vla until tomorrow in my first post of the game; i've given a defined period of time where i would be unable to really play the game and said as such as soon as the game started

i've not really been *playing* the game yet, i agree. i don't understand why you're saying that this has anything to do with my alignment when i've said i'd be busy irl until tomorrow

She’s covered a little for Spam and she’s covered a little for Salami. I haven’t noticed her covering for me. I’m a newbie and there’s a 7/9 chance I’m town just like the rest of us. Salami and Spam can’t both be scum if she’s also scum, but I see a difference in the way she handles us. She's perhaps overly critical of Elements when TTTT and I were both picking up on the same thing from Spam. Maybe that’s just because I’m coming at it from within my own headspace,

but I see a difference in the way she's handling us.

given that if i'm scum i can't be partners with both salami and spam (ie you can't argue that scum!me is defending my partner for both of them), what is the signifcance about the bolded and why does it make me scummy?

She’s turning the tables and asking questions back to various accusers regardless of where their fingers are pointed

yes, because i ask questions in order to understand why people are doing what they're doing

She defended Salami and Spam,

possibly distancing herself from being seen as jumping on town wagons

and her criticism of Elements in particular gives her cover if he is her scum partner. I’m not saying he is, btw. I initially took her behavior to be part of her role as ic, but now I think it's a strategy.

bolded: uh why are you assuming they're both town if i'm scum here?
if we're assuming that you're town here, why am i going after you if scum!me's mo is apparently to defend town and criticize my partner?
if i'm scum do you think that elements flips before me?

She should know very well why that reeks of scumminess. It was beyond LAMIST and Spam was rightly called to account for his actions. In this post, I dismissed her actions as being ic. I presumed that she was trying to prod us into thinking things through, but I read the IC guide on the wiki page and it instructs ic’s to be present and helpful (which she has been), but it says not to keep kid gloves on. I'm now operating with the expectation that her kid-gloves have been off from the beginning.

a) i don't think it was a scummy post; it was a bad one. bad != scummy; don't conflate the two notions. i can understand why he was pushed for it but i don't think he should have been

b) what does me being ic have anything to do with that post? i have no idea what you're talking about in the latter half of this paragraph

The push was definitely not bad and

it was not based on Spam’s choice of username.

The push was based

entirely

on his behavior in the game. I’m not sure how she could have missed this, but we can see from post 55 to 73 that she has read it and understood our protests.

Why the cover for Spam?

Hey guys, I'm new, never played mafia online or in irl at all, but my friends said I should try this so here I am. I'm a bit confused by my role to be honest though, since I'm a Vanilla Townie (it's ok to say that, right?), does that mean I don't get to do anything? Sorry if it's a dumbb question, I've never played before like I said, so I want to find out what I can. Great to get started with you guys, sure this'll be heaps of fun!

Is it just me or does the entirety just reek scum,

including the player name?

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount

bolded: don't misrep what actually happened. elements said that his choice of username was scummy (later clarified in that he mistakenly thought it belied that nmsa had prior mafia expereince); the initial push was at least in part based on nmsa's username as shown in 30

italics: are you insinuating that scum!me is covering for my scumbuddy? if so, this kinda contradicts your argument that i'm staying off of townwagons. if not, what is the signifance of this phrase?

Post #101 Now she's acknowledging that Spam’s post “god-awful”, just not in a scummy way. Well what is it exactly then? It feels like she's prodding us to think things out but she's an experienced player in the game so if she's town, a little direction might have been helpful.

it's a bad post. it's not inherently scummy because i can see it coming from overeager newb!town as well as newbscum playing the newbie card. i can't really call it scummy if i see a perfectly plausible explanation for why it might have come from town!him
yeah, it's bad. is it the sort of post that only comes from scum? no.

As I get to posts #251 and #252 , it’s becoming increasingly clear to me that Skitter’s entire strategy seems to be making us

second guess ourselves

rather than put forth an earnest effort of scum-hunting.

show me where exactly you think i'm doing this

[skitter30]

BBmolla appears to be scumhunting, so he's probablly town to me.

where is this happening

==

why bring this back up after multiple people have covered it? you did a similar thing in your previous wall post, bring up something that had been discussed and resolved. It seems unnecessary.

because i read the thread in order and responded to it before i read those other posts and didn't cut it out

what changed your mind on this?

i don't think i changed my mind on this?

Maryjo has almost wrapped around to this side of things and is so fine with it that it's almost lamist and put-upon and over the top and something thay she's saying to get people off her back. I can't tell rn if her acquiesce for her lynch is natural or lamist; it's townie in a surface-level kinda way but it feels almost fake if that makes sense

[Elements]

because i read the thread in order and responded to it before i read those other posts and didn't cut it out

i still don't see the point in including it

[skitter30]

She defended Salami and Spam, possibly distancing herself from being seen as jumping on town wagons and her criticism of Elements in particular gives her cover if he is her scum partner.

Spoiler for my later detailed thoughts: it's because they're probably scumbuddies.

You spoiled my big reveal. We are now bitter enemies.

i don't understand how you can argue both of these at the same time
you realize that quite a lot
of your push on me isn't actually based on me doing anything scummy, right?
you have:
-> the fact that i'm not really *present* in the game (again, i moved this weekend)
-> me at once defending town lynches to avoid being criticized for jumping on townies who you later say might be scumpartners (you can't have both of these at the same time)
-> some stuff about me being ic that i don't understand the relevance of to anything
-> apparently my strategy is making people second-guess each other but i don't know either where you think i'm doing that or why you think this is a scum strategy of mine and not a playstyle thing for me to ask a lot of questions
-> that i disagreed with people calling nmsa's entrance scummy (why is a differing of opinion here scummy? if you think it's because i'm his partner what does the first quote in this post mean?)

like i'm at once scummy for defending townies but also criticizing my potential partner elements but i'm potentially defending my partner spam who i've avoided criticizing so that i'm not seen as jumping on town wagons?

[skitter30]

because i read the thread in order and responded to it before i read those other posts and didn't cut it out

i still don't see the point in including it

yeah, i prob should have taken it out, but i don't usually go back and edit my posts after i've written them so :shrug:

[Elements]

i don't think i changed my mind on this?

less of a mind change, more of a coming down on one side of the fence

[Elements]

(you can't have both of these at the same time)

I think this can be boiled down to MJL's love of fence sitting.

[skitter30]

i don't know.
it feels more scummy to me rn on balance because i honestly don't think i've ever seen town be *this* cool with a lynch like this; it doens't feel liek a really thought

are you saying that you think that lynching you soonish and curtailing discussion would put town in the best position going forward?
or am i misunderstanding this? (ie that you think *a* lynch should happen soon, but not one on you?)

i want her to answer this ^^^^ it's relevant to how i think about this

[skitter30]

*it doens't feel like a real thought

[skitter30]

(you can't have both of these at the same time)

I think this can be boiled down to MJL's love of fence sitting.

uh i'm apparently partners with you because i've criticized you
and also with spam, because i'm defending him

but i'm also avoiding critcizing town!spam and town!salami, which is scummy of me, especially in contrast of criticizing partner!elements

it's not fence-sitting, it's finding all of my actions scummy in a way that is not internally consistent

She defended Salami and Spam, possibly distancing herself from being seen as jumping on town wagons and her criticism of Elements in particular gives her cover if he is her scum partner.

i feel like there's sometihng else bothering about this quote that i'm going to try to figure out when i'm less tired

also this push is based on like pages 1-6 and i'm not sure why none of this was brought up before tbh

[skitter30]

it's not fence-sitting, it's finding all of my actions scummy in a way that is not internally consistent

eh, not literally *all* of my actions, that's an unfair exaggeration on my part

[skitter30]

elements, what do you think of bbmolla?

[TTTT]

@skitter - you are over-explaining
and I think it makes you look less than engaged in things that actually matter
bc you are trying to address everything and asking some questions that will lead nowhere
you've said a lot but I feel like if you are town you have no confidence in anything
so can you just give some quick takes on each slot?
or even just the slots you think most important rn?

Pedit: ok these last few posts are more focused

[MaryJoLisa]

i feel like there's sometihng else bothering about this quote that i'm going to try to figure out when i'm less tired

also this push is based on like pages 1-6 and i'm not sure why none of this was brought up before tbh

It can totally wait. We have like 3 more months until this day phase is over. :: sighs ::

[skitter30]

townie: smpa, elements, salami, bynumber
nulltown: you
scumlean: bbmolla
idk: maryjo, probably scum
null: dick richards

what do you think of bbmolla (specifically 315)?

i know i'm a little unfocused; i'm kinda tired, sorry; if you want explanations i'll be happy to but like tomorrow when i'm more awake

[skitter30]

i feel like there's sometihng else bothering about this quote that i'm going to try to figure out when i'm less tired

also this push is based on like pages 1-6 and i'm not sure why none of this was brought up before tbh

It can totally wait. We have like 3 more months until this day phase is over. :: sighs ::

can you respond to the points i raised specifically in 354 and 358

[Elements]

elements, what do you think of bbmolla?

I'm getting a very much "live fast die young" vibe from them. Not entirely sure what that means it's just how i feel. I also don't get his fascination with why people have Null reads on him. Practically all he's done is say that salami's reaction to his wagon was "genuine" whatever that means, and expressed dislike for MJL's non-committal posts. Neither of which I find pretty polarizing.
If I had to put a read on them other than Null, it would probably be a slight scum lean purely from an activity standpoint.

[skitter30]

townie: smpa, elements, salami, bynumber
nulltown: you
scumlean: bbmolla
idk: maryjo, probably scum
null: dick richards

also if bbmolla is scum it's probably not with maryjo which means i'm going very wrong somewhere, probably in the townreads so i have to sort through those again

(unless dick richards is literally just scum which is possible but eh not particularly likely; i'm probably wrong somewhere)

[cbynumber]

Since the heat died down from his initial entrance, NotMySpamAccount has done nothing in the way of attempting to find scum.
What he

has

done is go out of his way to appease everyone. When someone directly asks him a question about the game, you can pretty much expect his response/view to be identical to whoever is asking him the question.
For example:

@Notmyspamaccount, what's your take on everything so far?

Not sure, still thinking about it. MJL definitely still seems scummy, I get what you mean with this:

You can put me at L-1. It's just a game. When I'm lynched, you'll learn more information.

your ok-ness with being lynched is the only thing that i find townie from you tbh

How is it townie?

Aftet playing a lot of games, i've found that scum tend to be more survivalistic jn the face of getting lynched - both alignments can win after death, but one scum getting lynched makes scum wincon that much harder given that it leaves fewer scum alive to do the job. Scum, when about to be lynched, tend to get very survivalistic in trying to talk their eay out of it. Maryjolisa is *not* at all survivalistic rn; she's accepted her lynch and is fine with it.

Occasionally, scum who know that being survivalistic tends to be read as a scumtell will try to show that they're fine with being lynched so that people will townread them since they're doing the opposite of ehat scum normally do. Maryjo has almost wrapped around to this side of things and is so fine with it that it's almost lamist and put-upon and over the top and something thay she's saying to get people off her back. I can't tell rn if her acquiesce for her lynch is natural or lamist; it's townie in a surface-level kinda way but

it feels almost fake if that makes sense

Ok that makes sense.
It does feel fake to me, I think it has to do with just how quickly Maryjo gave up after getting called out. I mean, she didn't even try to pretend like that scumslip wasn't intentional.

That kinda fleshes out what I was starting to think about her reaction, just total apathy towards her own imminent death.

^ I'm asking for views on the game so far, all I get back is a deferral to my view on MaryJo I was pushing at the time. So, he's trying to validate me and my own reasons without having to fabricate any of his own.

So instead, I ask him for views on players I

haven't

provided my own opinions on, in order to get some original thoughts from him rather than my own views parroted back at me (I also do this wondering whether or not he'll give his views on everyone -I mean, he's already giving me views on half the playerlist minus the inactive so as a townie you'd want to take the initiative and put it all out there, right?- or just the 3 I ask for in order to fulfill exactly what I've asked him to do). This is what we get:

While you're pushing MaryJo for some reads, how about providing some of yours?
Specifically, I'm interested in your thoughts on skitter, TTTT and BBmolla.

I'm still not sure what to make of skitter, she hasn't posted much outside of ic help. The lack of solid info is giving me a slight scumlean, but I'm sure the read will develop more soon.
TTTT is a bit scummy, but he says that's his playstyle. After the explanation (finally) of his vote earlier, I'm leaning town, but only slightly. Not sure what it is, but something just doesn't sit right, so he's close to null.
BBmolla appears to be scumhunting, so he's probablly town to me.

Skitter: "hasn't posted much outside of IC help." (there's actually quite a lot that isn't IC stuff from skitter, but because both Elements and MaryJo have been noting skitter's role as ic in their votes, he latches on to that)

TTTT: Is called scummy, town and null. (Not sure what the right thing to say is, Skitter has been angling to set up a tttt lynch day 2 if MaryJo had been lynched today, but as the heat is now off her (MaryJo), he gives a non-specific answer in order to hedge his bets until he finds out what the plan is from his buddy).

BBmolla: Is scumhunting (From a town perspective i.e without knowing anyones alignments but your own; of the three people NSMA is giving reads for BBmolla has objectively done the least scumhunting).

NMSA is -not- invested in finding scum at all, despite being one of the most active users in the game. I think I could find you one instance from his 20-odd posts since page 3 that I could call scumhunting. He

is

invested in hanging around and posting to look active: He's more than happy to entertain us with some DickRichard-posting, just don't ask him to hunt scum.
(I do find it pretty funny that he dipped as soon as I called him out though, which now that I think about is pretty telling if you comparing this to his reaction to being called scummy at the start of the game.)

[cbynumber]

Aaaand I just lost my skitter post.
Essentially:
Skitter defending NMSA initially in the newbtown- scum- LAMIST debate at the start is not indicative of her being scum necessarily, the fact that she was willing to pile onto NMSA should he not be able to shake off his initial suspicion is.
Skitter tried to buddy up to me in order to push for a TTTT lynch tomorrow should MaryJo have been lynched today.
Attempting to go after TTTT for his vote on Salami was opportunistic, and something you'd set up if you already knew MaryJo wasn't going to flip scum.
NMSA is taking his cues from skitter, so when she's away for long periods of time he's kinda stuck on what he should be pushing (see previous post).

[cbynumber]

Skitter tried to buddy up to me in order to push for a TTTT lynch tomorrow should MaryJo have been lynched today.

^Now that this isn't happening, she's attempting to do the same to Elements in order to push a vote on BBMolla today.

[Elements]

Spoiler for my later detailed thoughts: it's because they're probably scumbuddies.

You spoiled my big reveal. We are now bitter enemies.

When is your reveal happening?

[TTTT]

Dick Richards replaces Tall1s.

@MOD

- Did Dick Richards confirm his role PM?

[MaryJoLisa]

It won't be happening, and I'm currently feeling more inspired about cybnumber's line of thinking about SPAM. I've made similar mistakes as SPAM in my first game. When you're coming in with a fresh pair of eyes and absolutely no preparation on what moves people might take, you look to others to see what they're thinking and see if you can justify that line of reasoning. That's why I appear to be fence sitting, it's because I'm announcing my train of thought as I'm formulating it.

If SPAM is legit new, then his inability to formulate his own reads may just be because he doesn't know what to look for yet and he's trying to learn from others to see what they see.

Today I'll be considering the possibility that SPAM is being directed behind the scenes to ham it up with that newbie act and I'll reevaluate his actions with that in mind.