Newbie 1915: Africa [Game Over!]

[MaryJoLisa]

Ever? I can think of much weirder things. I can't remember what I was replying to, but I had edited the post before submitting it and didn't catch that my thought wasn't following.

[u r a person 2]

He has a hard on for me because I know he is scum

Why thank you Elements, I actually agreed with several of your posts on the last page

ummmmmmmm

ummmmmmmm

oops, meant to say

scummmmmmm

[u r a person 2]

Ever? I can think of much weirder things. I can't remember what I was replying to, but I had edited the post before submitting it and didn't catch that my thought wasn't following.

yeah fine, but what was it in response to

[u r a person 2]

This is not a useful statement. It's basically saying "woah don't lynch me too fast, you wouldn't want to lynch town you know?"

Spoiler: spoiled for space

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

Your logic is all over the place and makes no sense

I just don't feel that we have enough information to work with. A lynch (any lynch) would start to provide some context for what we've been saying and the cases we've been trying to build.

That's wrong though, while a lynch is usually preferable to no lynch for town they can be very harmful if chosen unwisely, we can't just pick

any

lynch. We have to figure out which is the scum

Is this in the wiki or something? I don't know why you think this. If this is your second game ever, you should be feeling the game out like the rest of us. And if this is actually your second game ever and you're that intuitive and confident in your moves and those moves are correct, then you probably shouldn't be in a newbie game.

Yeah it's in the Wiki. I feeling the game out and changing my views as new information comes out. I trust my intuition but of course, it can be wrong like any other player. I'm a bit tired about my experience as my player being questioned so can you please drop it? This is my second game.

[u r a person 2]

Yeah, on second thought, let's hold off on l1 under tall1s' replacement starts posting.

@MJL even more reason not to lynch early. If we lynch someone now we learn nothing about tall1s' slot. We effectively go into day two with the addition of a new player.

Yeah, you're right UNVOTE: Elements

hold up
You were the only vote on elements
So why unvote? He was at no risk of being lynched
This is super lamist

[u r a person 2]

could you do a small rundown on everyone a bit like i did?

Here it is as of now:

1. MaryJoLisa2 – I’m town.
2. Elements – Town
3. NotMySpamAccount – Town
4. TTTT (SE) – He’s not trying to confuse anything. He has concerns and he’s trying to give his reasoning for things.
5. Salami – I need to see more, but I can see both scum and town with him. He’s at least active and searching, so that’s going to push me over into a slight town lean.
6. Skitter – Not enough to go on.
7. Tall1s – Nothing to go on.
8. Cbynumber – Laying low, seems kinda scummy to me.
9. BBmolla (SE) – Scum lean. No actual scum hunting and limited interactions with everyone else. The salami wagon was garbage comment in #161 with no follow-up doesn’t sit well with me.

compare this to my read list rn lol uncanny

town
me, mary, elements, NMSA, TTTT
not town: Salami, Skitter, CB, BB

[u r a person 2]

@BB How is this town? And how is it SO town that you're frustrated others don't see it?

Spoiler: spoiled for space

You're misreading me. That's not what I'm saying.

Look at it from the perspective that Salami is scum (which we do not know). IF Salami is scum and BBmolla is his scum partner, then we will be able to see in retrospect (after the game) that BBmolla was removing the wagon from his scum partner. If Salami is town and BBmolla is scum, then BBmolla's effort to move the wagon off Salami doesn't make sense because he had an easy mislynch all lined up for himself when he logged in.

If we were to lynch Salami and Salami flipped scum, then we might reasonably look to BBmolla who moved the wagon off Salami, but that still doesn't mean that BBmolla is scum. He might have just been town trying to latch onto what would be for him a more logical target.

If you decide to lynch me and I flip green (and I will), then I would start looking much more carefully at Salami and BBmolla. Salami for the reasons I stated in previous posts (his play doesn't seem newbish), and BBmolla for possibly (but not certainly) protecting a scum partner.

BBmolla didn't move the wagon off me, he was originally voting for cbynumber and then voted for you. Your reasoning is becoming really stupid and longwinded, I'm town so it's impossible for BB and myself to be a scumteam and it's premature for you to speculate on partners until one of the scum has actually been lynched.

I believe the lynch occurs when 5 players vote for the same person, up until 10 days. After 10 days, majority rules.

after 10 days, no lynch.
It is much more beneficial for town to keep the day going for as long as sensibly possible so there are lots of interactions to analyse and longer for scum to slip up

I think we should keep talking until Tall1s is replaced and then do a lynch. Even if it's a mislynch, we'll have gathered some useful evidence to work with.

Sounds like you already know I'm going to flip town.

like come on this shit is town

[u r a person 2]

tending town: salami, nmsa, cbynumber

town reads on salami and cb why?

[u r a person 2]

Early reads...

cby
Elements
MaryJo
are all town
town lean on BB

scum are probably here:
Salami
Skitter
NotMy
Tallis

you town read CB too, eh? I'll go back and reread the iso after I get through the game

but why?

[skitter30]

they both had posts that i remember thinking were fairly townie; i was still kinda skimming at that point so i don't remember the posts offhand but i'll go back and try to pull them up

still really think cby is town
salami not so much anymore

[u r a person 2]

Upon revisiting Salami and Skitter's ISO with a fresh mind, I can see the town vibes picked up by BBmolla from salami.

My intuition is that Salami is scum, but my evidence is lacking and the more I consider it, the better a case I can make for him being town.

Three people on one page follow the same progression on salami.

Salami has been pretty scummy. I wonder what caused this

[u r a person 2]

Dick Richards replaces Tall1s.

Now

that's

a name.

sorry to disappoint

[u r a person 2]

MaryJo if you are town
and I think you prob are
can you stop acting scummy plz
thx

lolololol
this is me rn

[u r a person 2]

No. I very probably cannot stop doing things that are perceived as scummy because too many people have already developed tunnel vision. I think these day phases are so long that they're destructive to town and give scum an advantage by allowing them to work in tandem behind the scenes creating havoc and confusion.

I might be biased because I just got done with a game where town got a hard scum read on them for playing agressively, and then basically followed the same pattern of
"it's okay if you lynch me just get scum next"
and
"Everything I say will be scum read"

and then we lynched him anyway

this stuff comes from town way more than from scum - especially new players

[u r a person 2]

@Salami - plz give updated reads

TTTT: Well I'm getting increasingly scummy vibes from you, you hopped onto my wagon, said you'd explain later then didn't which tends to be a scumtell from games I've seen.
BBmolla: He prefers brevity but I don't get much particular scum vibes from him. #282, #18 and #178 feel like town posts to me.
NotMySpamAccount: My instincts are saying VI for the most part but I think we should take a closer look at him tomorrow.
MaryJoLisa: A lot of her posts are annoying and anti-town but my instincts are telling me she is town, particularly from the reaction to the wagon.
Elements: I'm still not 100% sure about him but I think he has been pushing the game in the right direction
skitter30: Same as before really I TR her and think she is making good observations, #267 is a very town post
cbynumber: #129 and #257 are good posts, not much else to go on
Dick Richards: This slot hasn't posted yet so completely null.

Am I really the only person who thinks these read lists are fabricated?

[u r a person 2]

other than...
1) skitter is more null to a scum-lean for me
and
2) I'm town
I like Salami's reads

his reads boil down to a poe of you, me, and cb
you town read cb, you must town read yourself
??

[u r a person 2]

I'm PoE'd down to voting here:
Skitter
NotMy
Dick Richards (Tallis)

damn i was excited to town bloc with you

we'll get there in the end

[skitter30]

for salami:
i liked the effort in 121 and how he was trying to pull his thoughts together; it had a certain level of nuance that i liked for that stage of the game
at the time i also thought his reaction to maryjo's push on him for sounding experienced was fairly townie but reading it through again i'm not seeing those same vibes as much ( i think i specifically liked 145, but again, not getting those vibes anymore)

for cby:
just a collection of a bunch of small townie things he's doing: he's persistant about getting answers to his questions; he's making good observations, he's asking good, pointed questions; he has the right approach wrt waiting for a replacement before dealing with the empty slot

none of these things are so strongly townie by themselves but collectively he's just kinda townie for just doing a lot of townie things if that makes sense

(i'm trying to specifically remember what i was thinking circa post 253, when i made the post you quoted)

[u r a person 2]

uh i'm apparently partners with you because i've criticized you
and also with spam, because i'm defending him

but i'm also avoiding critcizing town!spam and town!salami, which is scummy of me, especially in contrast of criticizing partner!elements

it's not fence-sitting, it's finding all of my actions scummy in a way that is not internally consistent

you don't find scum to be more internally consistent than town? scum works on it. town is jumping back and forth between theories and paranoia

[u r a person 2]

Gosh, this is a really townie post, and it makes a really good point

If you're right, this means that scum!NMSA is proficient enough to make a lamist post and then fake what I still consider an ideal second post, and then active lurks the day away. This is reasonable

the other explanation is that town!NMSA skimmed the thread and the wiki for like 5 minutes and came back and made a great post after absorbing that information. Actually, this seems a lot less likely in retrospect

Spoiler:

Since the heat died down from his initial entrance, NotMySpamAccount has done nothing in the way of attempting to find scum.
What he

has

done is go out of his way to appease everyone. When someone directly asks him a question about the game, you can pretty much expect his response/view to be identical to whoever is asking him the question.
For example:

@Notmyspamaccount, what's your take on everything so far?

Not sure, still thinking about it. MJL definitely still seems scummy, I get what you mean with this:

You can put me at L-1. It's just a game. When I'm lynched, you'll learn more information.

your ok-ness with being lynched is the only thing that i find townie from you tbh

How is it townie?

Aftet playing a lot of games, i've found that scum tend to be more survivalistic jn the face of getting lynched - both alignments can win after death, but one scum getting lynched makes scum wincon that much harder given that it leaves fewer scum alive to do the job. Scum, when about to be lynched, tend to get very survivalistic in trying to talk their eay out of it. Maryjolisa is *not* at all survivalistic rn; she's accepted her lynch and is fine with it.

Occasionally, scum who know that being survivalistic tends to be read as a scumtell will try to show that they're fine with being lynched so that people will townread them since they're doing the opposite of ehat scum normally do. Maryjo has almost wrapped around to this side of things and is so fine with it that it's almost lamist and put-upon and over the top and something thay she's saying to get people off her back. I can't tell rn if her acquiesce for her lynch is natural or lamist; it's townie in a surface-level kinda way but

it feels almost fake if that makes sense

Ok that makes sense.
It does feel fake to me, I think it has to do with just how quickly Maryjo gave up after getting called out. I mean, she didn't even try to pretend like that scumslip wasn't intentional.

That kinda fleshes out what I was starting to think about her reaction, just total apathy towards her own imminent death.

^ I'm asking for views on the game so far, all I get back is a deferral to my view on MaryJo I was pushing at the time. So, he's trying to validate me and my own reasons without having to fabricate any of his own.

So instead, I ask him for views on players I

haven't

provided my own opinions on, in order to get some original thoughts from him rather than my own views parroted back at me (I also do this wondering whether or not he'll give his views on everyone -I mean, he's already giving me views on half the playerlist minus the inactive so as a townie you'd want to take the initiative and put it all out there, right?- or just the 3 I ask for in order to fulfill exactly what I've asked him to do). This is what we get:

While you're pushing MaryJo for some reads, how about providing some of yours?
Specifically, I'm interested in your thoughts on skitter, TTTT and BBmolla.

I'm still not sure what to make of skitter, she hasn't posted much outside of ic help. The lack of solid info is giving me a slight scumlean, but I'm sure the read will develop more soon.
TTTT is a bit scummy, but he says that's his playstyle. After the explanation (finally) of his vote earlier, I'm leaning town, but only slightly. Not sure what it is, but something just doesn't sit right, so he's close to null.
BBmolla appears to be scumhunting, so he's probablly town to me.

Skitter: "hasn't posted much outside of IC help." (there's actually quite a lot that isn't IC stuff from skitter, but because both Elements and MaryJo have been noting skitter's role as ic in their votes, he latches on to that)

TTTT: Is called scummy, town and null. (Not sure what the right thing to say is, Skitter has been angling to set up a tttt lynch day 2 if MaryJo had been lynched today, but as the heat is now off her (MaryJo), he gives a non-specific answer in order to hedge his bets until he finds out what the plan is from his buddy).

BBmolla: Is scumhunting (From a town perspective i.e without knowing anyones alignments but your own; of the three people NSMA is giving reads for BBmolla has objectively done the least scumhunting).

NMSA is -not- invested in finding scum at all, despite being one of the most active users in the game. I think I could find you one instance from his 20-odd posts since page 3 that I could call scumhunting. He

is

invested in hanging around and posting to look active: He's more than happy to entertain us with some DickRichard-posting, just don't ask him to hunt scum.
(I do find it pretty funny that he dipped as soon as I called him out though, which now that I think about is pretty telling if you comparing this to his reaction to being called scummy at the start of the game.)

[u r a person 2]

We are both accusing one another of being murderous liars who stalk innocents in the night. A little courtesy is called for to maintain objectivity. This is, after all, just a game.

<3<3<3<3<3

[u r a person 2]

lmao

what do you even want to know, I think the two current wagons are on the scummiest players

then aren't you concerned that the two wagons are on those players?
this town isn't THAT cohesive

[skitter30]

i elaborated on that later, but no, i don't get the vibe that she's being paranoid and jumping back and forth between different theories; i don't think she really believes much of anything she's saying honestly

she's coming up with a lot of possibilities for what scum!me's agenda is or who i may be partnered with but there's like no ... convicntion behind any of it. there's no progression from one stance ot the next, nothing really prompting any of these changes. i don't see a coherent thought process really threading through her iso.

it's a list of possibilities of for what scum!me might be doing but her thoughts don't really track consistently across her posts - if i'm scum with elemetns i don't seriously believe she thinks i might also be scum with spam instead; the two dont' make sense together and it just doesn't seem like a real thought: there's no progression to get from a to b and and there's no opinion on which one is more likely.

like if she really thinks i'm scum with elements i'd expect to see a thought process like: oh wait actually after reading post X i'm not sure how likely that pairing is, maybe skitter/spam makes more sense; and after that thinking skitter/spam is a thing.

i just don't see that with her. i don't see how her thought process is evolving or why. her conclusions just change but there isn't like a thought process i can follow to explain it. overall i don't get how she's approaching this game or where her thoughts are coming from.

pedit: this is for a couple of posts up

[u r a person 2]

Also NMSA vanishing is only solidifying my read on him.

that's a bad reason
real life is a thing
you made such good argument before. stick with it.

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:

Stuck on SF traffic yfggghh