Newbie 1915: Africa [Game Over!]

[Elements]

Just going to put these two posts here with a question mark

I'm all caught up and I think today's lynch should be on salami. If not on salami, then on BB or Skitter

I'm not sure what I'm doing with NMSA and CB right now but I don't want to lynch inside of them today.

but the rest of you are town I'm pretty sure

i need to find a vote count

so do a bunch of other teams tho.

Salami, BB, NMSA are my preferred lynches in order for today. These don't line up exactly with my reads because the length of time these two wagons have existed without change + my paranoia of nmsa and cb make me want to hold off on skitter right now

VOTE: salami

i can't believe this doesn't have more interest.
Can my town reads please go back and read salami's iso? or my posts on his slot?

?

[Elements]

I'm going v/la this weekend, so here's my current read list:

Town Read:

cbynumber, TTTT

Town Lean:

NotMySpamAccount, u r a person 2

Null:

Salami

Scum Lean:

BBmolla

Scum Read:

skitter30, MaryJoLisa

Salami: Entered the game with a scummy vibe. Random accusations with no reasoning behind it. Further on he got better and made some nice accusations with reasoning that made me favour town. Recently, URAP2's posts have made me question my read so I'm no longer fully sure. I can see salami flipping scum or town and neither would surprise me.

NotMySpamAccount: Inexperience seems to be the word of the day. Ignoring the first few pages, I do like a lot of what they've had to say, especially from a new player. His reads seem genuine and thought through, despite their uncertainty - due to inexperience.

cbynumber: Most of his posts have been pushing the game forward, asking questions, clearing up things in his mind. These are all town things to do, hence my read.

u r a person 2: I like the enthusiasm and thoughts brought into the game from the moment they joined. Thought provoking posts but they seem to have messed up who they want to lynch.

MaryJoLisa: Lots of scummy posts throughout the game thread. That's all I rlly have to say.

BBmolla: I don't feel that he's rlly help the game progress at all. Doesn't want to "spam the thread" while trying to show the people who don't agree with him why they are wrong. I can't rlly see town motivations behind that.

TTTT: My strongest town read. I like their reasoning behind their votes. They are actively searching for scum. I'm now just mildly paranoid they're scum and have completely pocketed me.

skitter30: Similar to my last read, I don't see as much game progressing stuff as I'd like. Lots of posts conversing with MJL. I think we all know you think she's scum.

[u r a person 2]

sweet come join me on salami

Well hold on there, partner. You may have come in here all:

http://www.fanboy.com/wp-content/upload ... ranger.png

But I've still got to process what you've said, and I have a prior obligation to Skitter.

(Okay, I give up. If not with img tags, how do you get pictures to embed in a post?)

=(
okay, well I'll be here if you decide you want to vote your top scum read with your top town read ;p

[u r a person 2]

so do a bunch of other teams tho.

Salami, BB, NMSA are my preferred lynches in order for today. These don't line up exactly with my reads because the length of time these two wagons have existed without change + my paranoia of nmsa and cb make me want to hold off on skitter right now

VOTE: salami
i can't believe this doesn't have more interest.
Can my town reads please go back and read salami's iso? or my posts on his slot?

I don't get why you think BB is scum

-PoE
-Shows little concern over his scum solve becoming the two top wagons without being the cause of that change himself. It's one thing if a strong presence slot pushes the gamestate to where he wants it, but if you know that you're not doing anything to further that agenda, and that agenda is occurring anyway - in this case to not one but both of your scum reads - doesn't that make you paranoid?

And that bit about "Sounds like you already know I'm going to flip town." is not outside of anyone's scum range??

What about this slot am I supposed to see as town?

[MaryJoLisa]

@MaryJ excuse me if you answered this somewhere - What is your mafia experience prior to this game?

3 games before this one. This is my first on this forum. All versions I've played were forum games, not live ones.

could you talk with players outside of the game thread on those forums?

Sometimes, yes. I stepped into a place with a developed mafia culture. Some games did apparently permit talking outside the game. It's specified in the game OP.

The games I played were no talking outside the game.

Urap, I'd been wondering why you were asking me these questions but I think I found the root of it in post #9. Was that it?

[u r a person 2]

his entrance is awkward in the newb scum sort of way - and i get that not many people put stock in openings, but I do.
His lists look fabricated
And he tried to pass that off as being in the wiki and I'm sure you could find something in the wiki saying "it's better to lynch scum than town" but it's a paternalistic post that aims to chide people into slowing their roll on scum reading him which he passes off as sage wisdom of the wiki elders

Spoiler: a sampling of scummy salami posts for bbmolla

Hey's what's up gang, sorry for the late entrance but I wasn't online yesterday so didn't know the game started.

NotMySpamAccount: Lynch-bait. If he really was an experienced player I doubt he would be stupid enough to make a first post drawing attention to himself like that, my gut is telling me he is genuine.
Elements: I think him throwing shade on Spam for his username was BS and opportunistic.
MaryJoLisa2: Don't vote for Tall1s it's a very bad lynch that gives almost no info to the town. The slot hasn't posted and will be replaced soon, leave it until then.
TTTT: He is trying to pocket MaryJo
skitter30: Agree with most of his points so far.

The others haven't posted enough for me to have any opinion

VOTE: Elements this guy is gonna flip scum

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

Your logic is all over the place and makes no sense

I just don't feel that we have enough information to work with. A lynch (any lynch) would start to provide some context for what we've been saying and the cases we've been trying to build.

That's wrong though, while a lynch is usually preferable to no lynch for town they can be very harmful if chosen unwisely, we can't just pick

any

lynch. We have to figure out which is the scum

Is this in the wiki or something? I don't know why you think this. If this is your second game ever, you should be feeling the game out like the rest of us. And if this is actually your second game ever and you're that intuitive and confident in your moves and those moves are correct, then you probably shouldn't be in a newbie game.

Yeah it's in the Wiki. I feeling the game out and changing my views as new information comes out. I trust my intuition but of course, it can be wrong like any other player. I'm a bit tired about my experience as my player being questioned so can you please drop it? This is my second game.

@Salami - plz give updated reads

TTTT: Well I'm getting increasingly scummy vibes from you, you hopped onto my wagon, said you'd explain later then didn't which tends to be a scumtell from games I've seen.
BBmolla: He prefers brevity but I don't get much particular scum vibes from him. #282, #18 and #178 feel like town posts to me.
NotMySpamAccount: My instincts are saying VI for the most part but I think we should take a closer look at him tomorrow.
MaryJoLisa: A lot of her posts are annoying and anti-town but my instincts are telling me she is town, particularly from the reaction to the wagon.
Elements: I'm still not 100% sure about him but I think he has been pushing the game in the right direction
skitter30: Same as before really I TR her and think she is making good observations, #267 is a very town post
cbynumber: #129 and #257 are good posts, not much else to go on
Dick Richards: This slot hasn't posted yet so completely null.

[u r a person 2]

Urap, I'd been wondering why you were asking me these questions but I think I found the root of it in post #9. Was that it?

yeah that was part of it
and then later I wanted to know because you transitioned out of having a lot of questions into a very confident demeanor.

I think I made a post about it early in my iso

[u r a person 2]

Just going to put these two posts here with a question mark

Spoiler: U2 quotes spoiled for space by U2

I'm all caught up and I think today's lynch should be on salami. If not on salami, then on BB or Skitter

I'm not sure what I'm doing with NMSA and CB right now but I don't want to lynch inside of them today.

but the rest of you are town I'm pretty sure

i need to find a vote count

so do a bunch of other teams tho.

Salami, BB, NMSA are my preferred lynches in order for today. These don't line up exactly with my reads because the length of time these two wagons have existed without change + my paranoia of nmsa and cb make me want to hold off on skitter right now

VOTE: salami

i can't believe this doesn't have more interest.
Can my town reads please go back and read salami's iso? or my posts on his slot?

?

The difference is that I found a vote count and factored that in with my reads. At the end of the first post, I say I'm off to find a vote count ;P Reasoning for how the vc affected my reads in the second post

[u r a person 2]

@MJ

If you're really town, you'll need to build a convincing case as to why we should dismiss your apparent newbish mistake and account for why you didn't bother to read the rules before playing a game you've never played before.

You went from not knowing whether posting outside the thread was allowable to being assertive and confident quite fast.

or maybe your early questions to skitter were your way of getting control over a game you're new to - that would be neat

I really want to know your experience

[MaryJoLisa]

I have a question for @Mod and then I'll switch my vote to reflect my reads if her answer is what I think it'll be.

[skitter30]

omg, Skitter. I hate to ask this of you, but I'm getting turned around in my reply to you. Can you please, in a very brief narrative, tell me what it is that you want me to address? I'm looking at your questions and I see replies and replies with quotes and more replies and even more replies with even more quotes and I keep thinking that i've already tried to address your points. In like 3 or 4 sentences can you just say what you want me to answer? I've got all the data in front of me, I just can't figure out what you're asking that I haven't already answered. (sorry!)

I don’t see you advancing town’s position and contributing to the scum hunting and I find that your primary objective seems to be distracting us and asking questions to make us second guess ourselves.

ok:
for the former, i'm not sure why you're assuming my lack of 'advancing town's position' or scumhunting is a function of my alignment and not, say, of being busy irl

for the latter: where do you see that my primary objective is to distract people or make people second-guess themselves? like what have i specifically done that makes you think i am purposefully doing this?

^^^^ this

[skitter30]

skitter being on

everyone's scumlist is a bit concerning

but honestly that might just be because even their partner can't pretend that they look town

yeah this is a thing; noticed this a few days back

also given the pl and the game i'm pretty sure that in most teams involving me i'm the scum that tries to endgame most of the time

I think they're both scum. I voted skitter over NMSA because I think she would be more of a hassle for town to deal with. I was also more confident on my read on skitter because two strong town reads in elements and maryjo were already voting her.
NMSA not being around to address my case on him makes it kinda pointless to switch my vote to him.

this is still really town
(and yeah i'll make you work for my mislynch at least )

==

strongtown: urap, elements, cby
nulltown: tttt
idk: nmspa, salami
scumlean: bbmolla
scum: maryjo

i'll get to relooking at salami over the weekend

[u r a person 2]

I get where you're coming from but that just seems like his playstyle from reading his games. On first glance yeah it seems scummy but he is an experienced player so I don't think he'd be so obvious about it if he really were scum? Maybe I am just overthinking it this game has exhausted me a little.

which games did you read?

@CB what went in to your town read on BB?

[MaryJoLisa]

omg, Skitter. I hate to ask this of you, but I'm getting turned around in my reply to you. Can you please, in a very brief narrative, tell me what it is that you want me to address? I'm looking at your questions and I see replies and replies with quotes and more replies and even more replies with even more quotes and I keep thinking that i've already tried to address your points. In like 3 or 4 sentences can you just say what you want me to answer? I've got all the data in front of me, I just can't figure out what you're asking that I haven't already answered. (sorry!)

I don’t see you advancing town’s position and contributing to the scum hunting and I find that your primary objective seems to be distracting us and asking questions to make us second guess ourselves.

ok:
for the former, i'm not sure why you're assuming my lack of 'advancing town's position' or scumhunting is a function of my alignment and not, say, of being busy irl

for the latter: where do you see that my primary objective is to distract people or make people second-guess themselves? like what have i specifically done that makes you think i am purposefully doing this?

^^^^ this

I think I've answered these questions already, but I'm not digging through the posts to demonstrate that. Hopefully, this will address your questions.

I would still think that if you’re town, you’d be looking at various possibilities. I think you’d be advancing town’s objective but you’re instead asking questions that are making us second guess ourselves. Other active posters are throwing out ideas and trying to construct a narrative. You’re not really participating in that. I feel like you’re waving your hand with a shiny object to distract people from what’s really going on. I don’t know what’s going on, but I do not feel that you’re contributing to solving the mystery.

Your absence at the start of the game was very suspicious for me because I didn’t fully realize how long these day phases were. It was odd to me that you’d start a game that you’re ic’ing in that you'd basically miss what I expected would be the first two day phases. Possibly three. I see now that the day phases are forever and a day, so your V/LA is explained to my satisfaction.

Now you’re zeroed in on me and I don’t see you this focused anywhere else. You say I’m sitting on fences and that I lack conviction and internal consistency, but that’s because I’m trying to blindly put pieces together that and I really don’t know where the pieces fit. You don’t seem like you’re blind at all. You are very strong in your convictions and that only makes good sense to me if you’re scum. The only other explanation would be that your town with a penchant for tunnel vision. Both reasons are good for voting for you. We either take out the scum, or we take out the town who, in my opinion, could possibly tunnel the wrong people down the road.

If there is a stronger scum case on someone else, I will vote for the strongest scum read and Urap is making a good case for Salami right now.

[u r a person 2]

@MJ Please explain to me why my case on Salami is good.

Possible starting points:
Why is Salami's opening post awkward?
Why are Salami's read lists bad?

And second,

Are there any parts of Salami's play that you find scummy independent of my read?

[TTTT]

urap2 is playing well
if town solid play
if scum excellent play

[TTTT]

I really just wanna hear more from NotMy

[TTTT]

@mod

requesting VC

[MaryJoLisa]

If scum, Urap's pocket is probably cleaner, too. Less lint and whatever else you've got going on in there.

Do either of you have a preferred pronoun? Otherwise, I may accidentally assign one to you.

[TTTT]

my preferred pronoun is "sir"

[TTTT]

or just he

[u r a person 2]

he - if you're around could you answer my questions? It doesn't have to be long. a few sentences would probably be more than enough

[MaryJoLisa]

@MJ Please explain to me why my case on Salami is good.

Possible starting points:
Why is Salami's opening post awkward?
Why are Salami's read lists bad?

And second,

Are there any parts of Salami's play that you find scummy independent of my read?

Yes, but you more or less articulated what I was thinking but couldn’t quite explain myself.

In post # 121 viewtopic.php?p=10697748#p10697748 (still need to figure out how to easily do hyperlinks), Salami comes in making strong assertions but he was not hunting. He just stated flatly who is and isn’t scum and I think he thought his confidence alone would sway us. Why would I accept these assertions with his stated level of experience?

This is as far as I’ve gotten in my reply to you, but if you were looking for quick, there it is.

[u r a person 2]

the tag you're looking for is

post /post

with the []'s of course
I appreciate you dropping that in while you were working on it =)

[u r a person 2]

oh put the post number in between the tags