Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Taly]

nancel

did u like me poem?

[Taly]

k ive hit my shitposting limit for multiple days now

night guys

<3

[Taly]

also im gonna be clear now (officially done tonight after this post)

the more suspicion casted on

krazy

, the

harder

it will be for me to evaluate him when i plan to

not to say i WONT evaluate critically, but it will be more difficult to remove bias at such point.

if none of you have actually clued in to my playstyle yet -
im much more perceptive and detail-oriented than i let on, and i dont need additional input on something when i already know the views of other people, and need to focus on MY OWN for MY CLARITY in a game

hence why i have a cut-off point of saying

"I'm done questioning this"

or

"Let's not do this right now"

and

"This could be misleading / I don't trust this notion"

after a certain point in a mafia conversation.

just wanted people to realize this

*thumbsup, and waves goodnight*

(and yeah, i need to stop doing the whole

"goodnight, but oh wait - here's the ACTUAL last post"

thing that i do )

[Taly]

I played with scum!Taly in Labrynth and I locktowned him in SC 2 or have you forgotten about that?

My point is, do you disagree that he is the most widely read obvtown player in this game, if town?

I'm thinking about my Taly read, if Labyrinth Mafia is the most significant scum game for her that you're basing your read on I'll bear that in mind when I do a meta dive later this week

Didn’t someone also say, a scumtell for Taly, was to be town leader or something?

But he is nothing here, like he was in Labrynth. He was super aggressive in that, as in “how can you be townreading X” and I’m hard townreading Y with the negative utility role that can fuck town over.

Like if you disagreed with his reads, he hardpushed you. And there was also not an iota of the genuineness we see here. I don’t care how good someone is at scum, there’s just some things are not easily fakable. Like no offense to Taly but I just don’t believe he’s that good. I don’t even believe RC is that good.

eh. I've been known to be town leader and aggressive as BOTH alignments... but the circumstances, tone, and way I handle myself can be very different.

overall

nancy's

pretty accurate here - but me discussing self-meta isn't going to help you guys sort me. People have metadived me and jumped to false conclusions and lost before, so I'll make this easier for anyone who wants to use meta to read me.

So here are a few of my recent town games in the last year:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76441 -

My posting style and activity changed a bit from this. Thank god I don't do 1000 posts a time... I still am more conversational as town.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78296 -

I shamefully replaced out. But this is my latest town-game. It's worth reading.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78198 -

Another very recent town-game that I DIDN'T replace out. I recommend reading this as a given.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75978 -

This is my town-game at its best I believe, but also a bit more on the stress, "I want to fight" scale.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=75347 -

I think this is the oldest of the linked games, but it still qualifies within the 1-year mark and has some reliable meta-tells on it.

A few of my recent scum games in the last year:

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=76098 -

Perfect Scum Victory - My scum-game at its best so far. A reason why

the worst

doesn't trust me in mafia. lol

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=78138 -

I rolled town in one game, and scum in another... I got lynched by PoE D2 in my scum game. You'll see a BIG difference in my attitude toward the game from when I focused on my scum role in D1 - versus my town role in D2.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76341 -

Of course... the game everyone wants to mention me in. I was a traitor in Labyrinth and I replaced out late-game. Yes, it's a good example of me as scum but not the best imo.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76118 -

One of my first and weakest scum-games I think. Echo Bay has been mentioned, so I linked this.

~

I didn't like the sheeping, quick townreads on me in Pre-Dance - so everyone questioning their read on me is getting a +1.

Also, a PT with

Krazy

has only strengthened my townread on him. I have a good case on how he's very, very likely town.

[Taly]

Self Meta (Ignore At Will):

I would not IC

Urist

right after I scumcased him as scum. That's too risky, even for setting up a WIFOM argument.

I'm not a very risky scum-player.

~

RC/Ank

being town helps me feel better, and I'm glad that to see my push on

Urist

was misguided. I should've taken better initiative on my notes around

Allo

- I'm going to look at all the people who consistently dismissed his posting especially near late-Pre-Dance.

Gamma/Urist

coming in with reads tell me that they're being cohesive with discussion and therefore working to gamesolve. I feel better about this being a town/town pairing.

Gamma

Why is

Dann/Nancy

on the lower side of your reads?
Thoughts on

S_S+DT

?

Urist

You still haven't really responded to my case against you, though. Even if you're town, are you going to address those points?
Why do you think you're IC'ed?

Nancy

, how do you feel about

Dann

right now? I don't want a blanket statement on

"he's X alignment"

, I want to hear reasons.

[Taly]

Full transparency, my complacence with the lack of any push about me in first gamephase was because I was baiting the NK.

That plan halted when

RC/Ank

kept stating

Krazy

was scummy, and I got upset because I felt like I was being setup to suicide or become lynchbait. :/

I was going to say that I'm unhappy with anyone continuing the narrative that I've been pocketed - but I don't think that applies to the gamestate anymore?

[Taly]

Your whole point here relies on a hypothetical idea - of which - you haven't really stated that you legit think

Vedith

is scum?

My point RISKS Vedith being scum. If he's scum, he could cause trouble. I don't know if he's scum, that's what I'm asking all of YOU about.

Likely I thought

Vedith

would be more oriented to get through the game upon Second Dance, but I'm not quite sure. I don't remember many - if any - experiences with him, so I don't know the grounds of why people were questioning him.

Is

Vedith

scum to you? It seems you do, otherwise you wouldn't make any plan that relies on the uncertain chance he's scum?

I don't think so, but it's not impossible. That's why I want other people's opinions...

(And also, Vedith being scum wouldn't automatically make the plan fail. He'd have to decide it was best and beat both RC and Ank to the thread.)

This makes more sense.

You've mentioned

Krazy

doing something that I assumed made you suspicion of him 3693, but you haven't said anything about the fact that he has 7 coins. What's the difference of here?
7 votes isn't enough to lynch someone before intermission.

Still, I figured it would be significant.

Side note - I was going to wallpost this, but too many words will drown out my thinking towards your posts in the past 2 days. Some of your reads seem based on how people interact with your slot, and I don't fully vibe with it?

Another thing is -

RC+Ank

aren't auto-suiciding very stupidly anymore to my understanding. So 3934 seems misplaced, and again, you're talking about how

RC

has an endgame plan but are listing how he'd play as BOTH scum or town here?

I don't comprehend your line of thinking here, and it reads as you not having many unique reads beyond what the thread has notioned in some form.

Go ahead and ask about anything specific that confuses you, I don't really know how to respond to this.

what plan were you talking about with

RC

that showed he had a way to win this game and why did it revolve around him and

Ank's

death?

[Taly]

Before someone else says it, if I were scum I would've probably proposed to make Urist IC 'cause I was one of the few players saying he was town on D1, so I wouldn't have to keep defending him and still be consistent with my reads, 'cause I proposed a Gamma/Urist pairinh and from anyone's scum POV, that's a pairing you can take to an eventual LyLo.

But since I'm not scum and I doubt they thought about that 'cause I don't see anybody trying to frame me, I think the most logical answer is creating WIFOM for Gamma, who I think it's town

What are your reads at the moment?

pvurist is confirmed town here taly. why would he respond to ur case.

I want him to defend and explain his reads or thought process at the time. My case didn't have 0 questions in them either.

He felt strongly about

Dann

, and I want to see the evolution of that read too, since he's town.

p-edit

To do list:
- look who was content with Allo being left out / people wanting him yto stay. Decide which of the contents had no reasoning behind that / decide who defending him could've been trying to pair him with a potential mislynch.
- read Ank and RC's ISO
- push SS

Weren't you OK with

Allo

being left out?

And why is someone defending

Allo

automatically someone who was trying to pair him up to as a mislynch? Am I scum because I second-guessed the reads there?

I don't remember anyone else entertaining

Allo

-town.

You're not evaluating all the flaws in the lack of reading his slot beyond

"this is scum-motivated"

.

[Taly]

If urist doesn't pair today and flips scum, I'll reconsider my read on DanceFloor.

VOTE: No lynch Dance 1 or whatever the phrasing was stupid phone posting p-edit yeah it was correct

Urist

is town. Does that mean

Dann

is likelier scum to you?

[Taly]

I need to leave, but I'll definitely get to your post

PB

But can you also talk to me about your

S_S

read? I want to see why you want to push them as I don't see much interaction or read about him in Pre-Dance from you.

[Taly]

Phonepost

@4380 I have a few hangups with the read list here.

Vedith

only has 4 individual townreads in a game of 16 players left alive and we are nearing 5000 posts in, and the only town/town pair to him consists of the person who just got IC'ed.

The only scum/scum pair he has consists of who the IC pushed the most Pre-Dance.

(Urist on Dann)

His townread on me is least understated or understood out of the entire playerlist since the strongest townreads on me are meta based and we haven't played before to my memory.

PB

is his townread out of 11 other people because?

PB

wants to push

S_S

and

DT

is scumread here which is

S_S'

partner.... so maybe read alignment is the reason?

I'm confident

"their content doesn't feel forced"

as a reason to townread someone should apply to more than just

PB

here.

Would like to see some explanations here

Otherwise -5000 to him and noted.

[Taly]

@taly deciding who was defending him to mislynch him clearly implies that not everyone was doing that: you could've been defending him because you thought he was town. I want to reread to decide if I can get anything about Allo that could be useful. Yes, I was one of the players scumreading Allo and wanted him to be left out.

Also no, I said that if Urist flipped scum, I would've thought Dann was scum, not the other way. I said that 'cause the last scumgame I saw from Urist, the only push he commited to was his scumpartner

Yeah, I

could've

been defending him because I thought I was town.
I

could've

been trying to pair him to get a mislynch.

You don't make any conclusion about me when I asserted my read of

Allo

, and I don't recall anyone else defending a reason to townread him based on the gamestate.

So how about you talk to me about

Nancy/Dann

? Since you think the NK and IC choice can be WIFOM - AND because

Nancy/Dann

both scumread

Allo

- very similarly to yourself.

His "we sheep RC after he flips town" followed by RC dying

His "we sheep RC after he flips town" followed by RC dying

The whole point of that was I was so paranoid of RC I didn't want to trust his reads while he was alive... why would I then kill him as scum?

To "trust" his reads and take advantage of it

You see, I can definitely note how this is a possibility for

S_S

scum. But who do you think is associated with

S_S

if he were scum?

I didn't see people raising their hands agreeing with

S_S

in 3934, and I don't fully see your line of thinking about

S_S

being potential scum as you haven't really given a read on him Pre-Dance.

What was your original read on

S_S

what plan were you talking about with RC that showed he had a way to win this game and why did it revolve around him and Ank's death?

RC had near-lock townreads on Moment/Brie and Dann/Nancy, and the plan was simply to kill everyone except them. The problem was that RC's reads couldn't have been trusted to be 100% genuine while he was alive, so he needed to die for it to work.

Ehhhhh.... Did you townread

RC/Ank

at all? I want you to give an actual read and your assessment about the gamestate - rather than planning things and giving ideas solely based on other people's reads.

[Taly]

Would like to see some explanations here

I'm on phone right now.
If it helps I had RC and Ank both as town. So having 6 town reads ending day 1 is actually a lot for me regardless of posts made.
The amount if posts in a game means nothing without flips

I'm confident "their content doesn't feel forced" as a reason to townread someone should apply to more than just PB here.

Also it should, if I had the same for other players.

I'm only making the point that in 5000 posts, you should have a better idea on whose town - if you're reading based strongly off the principle of

"their reads are genuine and they don't look forced"

- as you state for

PB

here.

Gamma

Why is

Dann/Nancy

on the lower side of your reads?
Thoughts on

S_S+DT

?

Nancy is lower because I only really had her as weak town before and like I am gonna read that gargantuan ISO. Dann is lower because my townread on him is newer and hasn't been looked over for sanity yet.
SS-DT is my number 2 pair in my lynch order (TB-moment being number 1 and PB-Dr. Worm being number 3).
I recall being asked about my DT read so here goes. It's essentially just a collection of pings that form a read. I don't like how they interacted with me, I don't like their mindset for pairing, and I'm still on the fence about their "I am an asset to town" bluster.

I can see

S_S+DT

but there are 2 other pairs that have strongly caught my eye.

I don't know 100% about

Dann/Nancy

but I can't think of a reality where

Nancy

is scum, I can definitively towncase that for clarity.

Dann

is less confident in being town - but I townread him moreso than quite a few people in the game.

Can you list the pings you got from

DT

?

[Taly]

Ehhhhh.... Did you townread RC/Ank at all? I want you to give an actual read and your assessment about the gamestate - rather than planning things and giving ideas solely based on other people's reads.

I townread Ank. I can't read RC.

Meh... I feel

RC

on this. I wouldn't say I'd make the same plans as you did, but you're getting suspicion casted your way for your thoughts pre-Second Dance.

I don't think you or

DT

are strong town at all atm - but your lack of defense and being honest about a lack of read comes across as towny.

I'm not vibing with the notion of lynching

S_S+DT

out of the gate here.

I'm only making the point that in 5000 posts, you should have a better idea on whose town - if you're reading based strongly off the principle of "their reads are genuine and they don't look forced" - as you state for PB here

Why should I?
It's 5000 posts of the same shit overall. Who's dancing with all, who's Scum/town and who has what coins (removing additional game mechanics).
I have no actual voting patterns, no deaths other than Allo at that point. So no, don't tell me I should have a better idea on who's town.
Theres more to PB but I'm phone posting so I'm not going into detail yet. The same I did with Dann and Nancy.
I don't overly go into town reads because I'm more concerned about who's Scum rather than who's town.

We can disagree here.

I just don't see you doing much to sort out your multiple

"null-reads"

or doing anything to push your

"scumreads"

and yet you've posted a good bit more since Second Dance started versus the majority of Pre-Dance.

I'll be waiting for your full reply to my thoughts over your readslist.

[Taly]

are you talking to me or

Gamma

,

S_S

?

just want to clarify

[Taly]

lol I'm trying to intimidate you all of a sudden?

@Vedith

I don't vibe or understand the thought process behind your reads, and with the points I've made about your readslist in my post

(4390 or 4391?)

- it reads as very coincidental and easy-to-make given the gamestate.

Well, I'm here for when you want to actually put forth some thoughts.

*thumbsup*

[Taly]

[Taly]

Btw I want everyone to throw out a vote in their next post, just so we have some momentum.
VOTE: TheBrie
I intended to do this as soon as I posted my reads fyi

Walk me through your

TheBrie+Moment

read. I'm not feeling much about them yet.

I was talking to Gamma.

Also Nancy, I asked this a way back and I don't think you answered. You said Gamma was obvtown in Room Odds, so it sounds like you can read her pretty well... do you have a read on her with that level of confidence here?

Do you have scumreads at the moment? Or notable townreads?

[Taly]

I'm still waiting for you to respond to my inquiry.

*shrug*

I've given you my thoughts and why.

4393 is the post link btw.

your multiple "null-reads"

Also can you explain this part a bit more?

What were all the yellow and orange color markings for your read then? Did I miss something?

[Taly]

What were all the yellow and orange color markings for your read then? Did I miss something?

Krazy is my only null outside of Work (who I'm not counting).
I was wondering if you meant that but since when do null get multiple colours on reads.

And what do you mean you're waiting for my response?
I answered and said I will but I'm on phone. Are you not reading what I'm putting?
Or was there a particular part you want me to answer before?

Dannflor

-

Nancy Drew 39

Moment

-

TheBrie

or

DoubtingThomas

-

Something_Smart

PvtUrist (green now)

-

Gamma Emerald

Dr Worm

-

Pink Ball

or

Krazy

-

Taly

I see more than 3 colors here. You didn't label or specify what each color meant.

1)

So what does orange and yellow mean in terms of your read?

Dr. W

is the same color as

Krazy

, so is he null too?

2)

I don't follow your townread on me because a big portion of the stated reason behind it in this game is on meta, and we haven't played before.

3)

Nancy/Dann

are scum for you I'm guessing since they're red? But you're not pushing that? Nor the

DT/TheBrie

scumread?

It feels odd because

Urist

is IC'ed, and you're scumreading the person he pushed.

I also don't follow because the last time you gave reads -

Nancy

was at the top. 489. I know this was awhile ago, but you gave no indication on how this changed... aside from maybe

RC/Ank's

NK?

4)

You didn't elaborate much on the

PB

townread, and right now,

PB

is a townread I want to reevaluate critically.

5)

Gamma

read is OK based off the gamestate because

Urist

is IC? But why are there so many null/sort/scum reads as opposed to town?

Fire

isn't in your readslist either, so I can't evaluate how your pair has communicated outside of that you both are (jokingly?) wanting to suicide.

...I just don't understand your view of this game. You're not elaborating on the reads, and it feels artificial when you think I'm intimidating you into expanding on them.

Nancy who should I vote?

Also this, why ask

Nancy

for where she wants you to vote when you're not townreading them?

[Taly]

Vedith - Firebringer

Dr Worm

-

Pink Ball

Krazy

- Taly

Dancefloor

-

Nancy Drew 39

Moment - TheBrie
DoubtingThomas - Something_Smart

PvtUrist

-

Gamma Emerald

Current town-reads. Dark greens are conf/strong town, light greens are lean town.

Can you elaborate on Pink Ball strong-town? I don't necessarily disagree with a town read I've just been lowkey paranoid of being pocketed there.

The reason for your paranoia and

Urist

being IC'ed, alongside

PB's

opening posts, are a big reason why my deepwolf alarm is going apeshit on their slot.

I don't trust that

PB+Dr. W

are both town here, and I think there is also scum within

Vedith/Fire

.

I'll digress in a readslist I'll get to soon.

p-edit

yeah

Dann

you're one of the few people not in that category lol

Can you evaluate my back-and-forth with

Vedith

the past few pages and get back to me?

[Taly]

I don't know why

Dann

-scum would be content with having

Urist

as an IC.

That's essentially grounds to validate suspicion on

Dann

based off

Urists'

read, or an argument to make that happen.

It looks too easy.

Can you evaluate my back-and-forth with Vedith the past few pages and get back to me?

I'm not to sure what exactly you want me to evaluate.

It reads to me like clashing townies who just have different ways of approaching the game and don't necessarily have similar reads. It's best if you try to understand how/why Vedith is getting to his positions and reads (vice versa too), instead of arguing over methods.

I'm not arguing with him. I don't like how I've been portrayed as being forceful or aggressive.

I'm TRYING to understand him.

Why is

Vedith

town to you?

[Taly]

I don't know why Dann-scum would be content with having Urist as an IC.

I'm pretty sure Dann-scum would be more than content to IC the partner of the most scumread player in the game.

So are you suggesting

Gamma

is the most scumread player? If so, I don't agree.

[Taly]

Well, their flips would assuredly improve my perception of the game.

I'm not confident that both

Vedith/Fire

are town/town, and I'll be a bit annoyed if they are.

I don't think

Vedith

was necessarily clashing with me, I interpreted it as him deflecting attention from his analysis. 4402 - 4407 - 4413 and 4414 - 4418

*sigh*

I thought I made myself extremely clear in 4393 but I don't think that's been acknowledged.

[Taly]

He could've waited to get on his computer and reply to my initial post in the first place.

whatever, I'm going to take a break from the thread.

[Taly]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone, I just wanted answers.

I'll be back tomorrow or Monday pending on my schedule this coming week.

[Taly]

fuck, i need to temporarily blacklist MS whenever i say im gonna give the thread a break

im sorry if i agitated you

ved

! D: i kept second guessing my read on you and

fire

and thats partially what led to me digging into your posts.

i guess it doesnt matter right at this moment before a flip occurs and because you guys are leaving the dance...

but anyway

<3

im throwing good vibes to you!

[Taly]

^^ this is both a genuine apology, and can be interpreted as dance setup flavor

besties had an argument, bestie walks out, the other bestie gives goodbye hug and makes up

XD

[Taly]

I'm going to reread the thread and have a full readslist sometime tomorrow. X_X

[Taly]

Pink Ball

is my strongest scumread right now, and was my original paranoia-thought to be a deepwolf since Pre-Dance.

I had an associative of

Vedith+PB

based off the readslist... but that whole thing dissipated with the townflip. :/

I'm going to reread

TheBrie+Moment

before I assess them further.

I get the suspicion on

DT+S_S

- but I feel like

Dr.W+PB

more likely contain scum.

I don't think anyone's expanded much on their

DT/Moment/TheBrie

read? A lot of Pre-Dance was everyone dancing around and shifting reads on them, so I still haven't seen a constructed case there. But I do plan to re-evaluate

DT

.

[Taly]

IC

Urist

- I want him to elaborate on his stance on

Dann

and any other scumread that has generated in the past few pages. I also want him to give an assessment of

Gamma

a bit more.

Strong Town

Nancy

- I can put a laundry list of reasons on why

Nancy

is town here. I don't find scum motivation here at all. Anyone who has found scum motivation in her, I feel is either more of a playstyle clash, or I understand why

Nancy

-town would do something.

Krazy

- I can definitely case this in depth. Natural progression of me, not pocketing me at all. He's opened up a bit on his thoughts of the gamestate in our PT and he's letting me know in advance about his ideas and reads. This is not scum.

Moderate Town

Dann

- I like a lot of

Dann's

posting, it reads as genuine attempt at gamesolving... Kind of wonder about his early

Urist

townread, as he didn't engage much with

Urists'

posts about him and then

Urist

got IC'ed when people began to push him. I also understand his point in 4388 about

Gamma

being potential scum trying to stay for the long game... But I think town and scum would point this out.
Then again...

Urist

-IC+

Dann

-scum does not compute.

Gamma

- I enjoy that they're taking initiative and pushing forth reads in order to get the game going. I want to look into their thoughts for

TheBrie

more though... I have a reason why

Gamma

is not strong town, and it's based entirely off WIFOM and by what

Dann

suggested. But I don't want to entertain this thought any further right now.

*

A

Dann+Gamma+?

scumteam makes very little sense unless there's some top-notch theatre going on for these reasons.
I can't see scum being in both

Nancy+Dann

or

Urist+Gamma

, even in a lylo situation...
Any case, I think they're both good, confident townreads right now... and I think questioning that is a path toward WIFOM destruction.

Slight Town

S_S

- I went over this in a few of my posts early this gamephase.

TheBrie

- Partial gut, I'm going to reread but this doesn't look like scum on the surface level.

Dr.W

- I liked some of their points and posts but they've felt absent from the thread, even when they've posted.

Slight Scum

DT

Moment

Moderate Scum

Pink Ball

I'll explain scumreads after rereading some more to see how confident I am in them. But these are my townreads and my scumreads are partially PoE'd.

With

Vedith/Fire

being T/T... The confidence in my reads has dipped a little.

[Taly]

Taly, you're wrong. Next.

@Nancy Mr. Worm didn't want to discuss about reads before the first flip and the IC reveal 'cause he had suspicions on me, so all we did was post dancing gifs. It was hilarious

I'm sorry, telling me I'm wrong does NOT change my read on you.

How about you don't ignoe my thoughts before I even expand on my read about you - so you can actually engage with it?

Again, you're only posting in this thread to shift someone's attention or perspective in the direction you want them to. Very similarly with what you did to

Dann+Urist

and what I think about your opening post about pushing

S_S

was.

(By the way, I want you to actually respond to my 4399 since you've posted twice in the thread without acknowledging it. 4480 - 4496)

Also, where's that

RC/Ank

you wanted to look at? Or the interactions with

Allo

? I still think I was one of the very few entertaining him as town based on the gamestate and people's reads.

4496 - If you confident on

Ved/Fire

being town to post about it post-suicide, why didn't you say something to discourage

Fire+Ved

from leaving at all?

I love calling Mr. Worm a Mr., is kinky as fuck. I feel like the girl of 50 shades of Grey.

Mr. Worm, our story will be known as fifty shades of Pink

In what world is this relevant to the game at hand?

[Taly]

There's a good chance it'll be tomorrow before I respond.

I just got my nails done, so I don't want to be typing a lot. (It's my first time It's this really nice, full black color.)

I need to work on my online classes a bit, and I need to exercise. But I plan an ISO group on

DT/PB/Moment

, and I want to reply to

PB

as they're most active.

[Taly]

I saw your questions, Taly. I'm phoneposting until March 'cause I'm on vacations and your posts are huge and reformatting them is a bitch from a phone. If me saying "you're wrong" is not enough after all I've done from the start of this game, then you won't change your read on me and all I can do is tell you that you're wrong, sadly. You asking me about one of my posts being relevant is like you haven't read my ISO at all. And the way you make your questioning is disencouraging 'cause it's like you won't like my answers either way.

So to summarize: I can't edit your posts to give you suitable answers; seems like you can't read me at all; and I feel like answering you would be a waste of time. Given this three things, do you think I wanna answer your questions at all?

Eh I skimmed last page and realized I needed to reply here.

Why are you assuming that I'm not going to listen to your answers? Why are you not wanting to defend or justify yourself? I haven't even voiced my read about you in full detail, and it's not a very confident one at that.

I don't know why people are writing me off as if I'm getting in their face everytime I make a post pointing out my issues with theirs or me asking a question.

This isn't fair. If I don't understand something - or it seems like I'm ignoring EVERYTHING about your ISO and posts this game, then why is it impossible trying to help me?

This is part of why I got upset with

Ved's

responses to me yesterday prior to us cooling down. How is this a town/town reaction?

If people think I'm initiating in a TvT, then I EXPECT THEM to tell me that directly so I can know when it's right to change my aproach.

I'm sorry if I discouraged you. :/ I'll just talk about my scumreads tomorrow judging off my schedule.

[Taly]

OK, I've taken a breath.

I haven't played with

PB

to my knowledge - or they could be an alt that I've played with?

PB

, you said my reads are very similar to yours - but I only have 2 other people I'm thinking are scum as well at the moment. Do you think both

Moment/DT

are scum, and is there someone else you're considering?

What reads of mine are most like yours?

[Taly]

My biggest reservation for lynching

S_S+DT

pair is that I'm more confident in

S_S

being town than

DT

is scum right now - even if I'm starting to vibe with the meta reasons on

DT

.

I won't be able to do ISOs or

krazy's

challenge <3 until later today.

@PB + Weak summary of Case

1)

To my knowledge, I'm the ONLY player that has pressured or scumread you,

PB

.

2)

Who do you think would jump on you?

3)

I want to know your read progression on

S_S

. Alongside

Nancy/Dann

?

4)

It does look like you've avoided me to an extent.

5)

Have you looked at the interactions with

Allo

yet?

I didn't have a good feeling about your posts after my opener this gamephase, as you listed what you wanted to do but you haven't done as much yet. I know you were someone who townread both

Dann/Urist

early on and so I thought it was plausible idea that you could've been scum who knew

Urist

would be IC'ed since I didn't see a lot of explanation behind your thoughts on them, could you link me if I'm wrong? You also made quite a bit of posts about

Allo

being scummy, and so his townflip did not make me feel better about your slot. 2911 as an example.

One of my earliest points on you was that you townread a lot of people but didn't go into much detail as to why - so I thought you could've been buddying.

X_X My vote hasn't moved though, I want to change that. What is the likelihood that I've been TvTing since Second Dance start?

My scumread there on

PB

isn't fully gone nor has my points/questions, but it's gotten weaker looking through their ISO a bit more.
I wish I can post-link some things to support my case a little more - but I'm a bit busy and I've covered the main points I believe in this post or in the previous one.



Alos

PB

, can you answer me this? Are you an alt I've played with before?

[Taly]

S_S

, can you explain your scumreads?

I glimpsed at

DT's

ISO as of the last several pages worth of his posts since my attention has been on other players.

But here's a few things I'm wondering about.

also i town read RC. I think RC's town ability is considerably good. i have no meta of you nor gamma. iirc, he hard town read you and said gamma was being worthless.

i am also ok sheeping that sentiment.

even if RC is wolf, i think he treats you and gamma like that if you are town. i really liked the way RC favored you over thebrie. tonally felt like a genuine town read, or something i dont know if wolves wanna do over their wolf packmate!gamma

Point is, RC is more valuable alive than dead

even when he's a wolf? :doge:

Why are you stating

RC

is a townread but several pages later you bring up the opportunity that he's a wolf?

I don't feel good that

S_S

is placing

RC's

reads higher than his own and you haven't pushed against that - all the while you're giving a mixed read on

RC

and his reads himself.

That does help me with not having to sort my partner, now I can just jam out reads

bad post is bad

Urist

is an IC. Why does this make

Gamma

less towny or not approaching the game effectively? He's asserting his other reads as he should.

These inconsistencies don't feel genuine. I'm leaning to

DT+S_S

contain scum somewhere.

As for

PB+Dr. W

, their interaction doesn't really feel town/town to me much yet? Based on what I'm hearing from the PT. But I'm not sure if that's where I'm thinking the first lynched pair should be at the moment.

[Taly]

And I know 2/3rds of the posts I just noted about

DT

were in Pre-Dance, that doesn't change my sentiment.

Also, I'm leaning on

TheBrie

being town and I don't get

Gamma's

vote there much? 4507 she shares a sentiment that seems pretty genuine about

Moment

- he's been absent for the majority of the game. I think her recognizing my argument about myself in the relation to an IC makes sense, I feel like scum would've more likely countered it.

Another thing that reads more town - is stating

Gamma

is potentially mislynchable and she wants to read further into them... I don't think scum would be apt to evaluate her, seeing as

Gamma

has initially pushed her.

3787 assured me a little of her. I don't think locktowning many people was a very effective approach Pre-Dance. I vibe with her 4609

I haven't looked at her earlier posts yet but I feel good about my townlean there.

@Taly, I haven't done what I listed because I'm still phoneposting and it would take an eternity to do it; it was a reminder for when I get a computer. I'm on my vacations, this is not what I'm planning to do during them. And yes, we have played together in my main.

Could you link the game where we played together?

Or give me a clue to your main? You don't have to since you want your alt hidden (I wouldn't out you if I figured it out unless you were OK with it), but it could really help me sort you.

[Taly]

Would like to see

Dr. W's

read on

TheBrie/Moment

too

I'm going to class - bye guys <3

[Taly]

Final thought

Also, I don't think I want a

Moment+TheBrie

lynch right now at all.

I want to reread

Moment

, and I think

TheBrie

is town.

So killing off a sorting+townread is not a good decision.

p-edit

k ty

PB

<3

[Taly]

S_S

is being very towny to me :/... I feel like he'd have more leverage or partners would have an extra voice for him in this game if he were scum.

He's not confident in his reads and that coincides with his behavior.

Dr. W

, what has pinged you about

PB

?

[Taly]

What are confident townreads for you

S_S

and why?

I'm going to place a vote somewhere tonight when I get to more ISO glances.

[Taly]

Rushing anything is bad but I think a lynch needs to be done by tomorrow. (Tuesday)

Otherwise the more discussion is made, the more muddled our reads and perception of the game become.

p-edit

lol

PB

this is the first time I've ever alt-hunted. XD

You sound like someone I've played with but I can't quite figure it out yet. Need to look back at my games.

[Taly]

Krazy

has already said he doesn't want our PT leaked. I'm respecting his wishes.

In the hypothetical situation he DOES tell me, I'm going to be 100% adamant on our PT not being leaked.

But I'll wait for him to confirm or change his mind about our PT privacy,

PB

^_^ Regardless, it's your decision to give

Krazy

permission, but I don't want to out you.

...back to Math studying...

[Taly]

DT

, who are your scumreads?

[Taly]

[Taly]

I still want to hear

Dr. W/Gamma's

vote on

Brie

.

I looked at

Brie/Moment

and I don't see what was sketchy about their pairing? It was discussed that both of them would be a viable pairing and both of them had a mutual read and gear towards solving each other.

[Taly]

DT

, why is

Brie

scum to you? As neither

Gamma

or

Dr. W

have explained to me yet.

[Taly]

oh sorry

im having a hard time keeping up with all the bullshit 1v1ing going on

[Taly]

Nobody seems to be on the exact same page in this game and I'm starting to read reverse on my lower reads. :/ Primarily

TheBrie

to being a bit more town and

TheBrie

to being a bit more scum.

But we need flips now to continue the game... X_X

Fuck.

[Taly]

Nobody seems to be on the exact same page in this game and I'm starting to read reverse on my lower reads. :/ Primarily

TheBrie

to being a bit more town and

TheBrie

to being a bit more scum.

But we need flips now to continue the game... X_X

Fuck.

lol

DT

to being a bit more town

TheBrie

to being a bit more scum

my brain is fried from math too guys D:

[Taly]

I'm done waffling. I'm sticking to my earliest reads, this game is becoming more and more difficult to parse with each page at this point. A flip needs to occur now.

If I had to lynch BOTH off acquiring information and reasons to scumread someone then

DT

is higher than

Moment

and

Brie

on the list.

Krazy

has been speaking to me about his interaction with

DT

consistently and it doesn't seem disingenuous. I've noticed a big tonal shift with

DT

and I don't entirely trust it's due to the gamestate. People haven't really tried to convince me to see their POV aside from my own townreads.

I have an idea of who

PB

is but I'm not outing it. Finding them out hasn't strongly changed my read on them - and I'd love to know where their

Krazy

-deepwolf theory came from since I haven't really hear them mention it.

Highly doubt a scum/scum pairing exists at all, and I'm cautious of anyone who's debating this with their reads.

I feel like any pressure or push I've made on someone since Second Dance started has been both dismissed and treated as if it weren't valid, which actually strengthens my original readslist in retrospect.

My thinking is aligning with

Krazy

right now,

DT

>

PB

>

Moment

, and then re-evaluate all of this upon a town flip or a townread flipping scum.

I want to explain more about my reads but I'm tired, I haven't been in the best mood today, this game needs to continue, I need to go to bed, and votes need to fly.

VOTE: DT

[Taly]

DT

was scum I'm feeling

PB

as a lynch now but I want to look back at some posts later today so I can voice more of my thoughts there.

(Especially 5050 - as it gives me pause on the read their for a moment)

I do want to look at

Dr.W/TheBrie/Gamma's

vote - since they all occurred relatively quickly after mine... I don't trust this entire group is town just yet.

Nancy/Dann/Krazy

all come out as my top townreads - the collective push on

DT

was unnecessary for any of them to do as scum who could've swindled an easier lynch onto

Moment+TheBrie

- despite

Moment+TheBrie's

alignment.

I don't think I have been fencesitting in this game much at all. I've reevaluated my reads - but I've taken people's input in the game and applied pressure when I felt it was necessary. My head is not 100% in the game right now because I'm focusing a lot on studying, though I do understand the suspicion on me since not many people have voiced a scumread here... which I'd appreciate much more, as I would no longer feel like I've been buddied like with 90% of the game and probably the remaining scum too.

I think anyone pursuing a scumread on

Krazy

needs to state it NOW - otherwise, I'm inclined to think they're pushing a narrative of me trying to suicide out of WIFOM.

PB

, I thought you had a deepwolf theory on

Krazy

? Why do you want our pair to endgame now?

[Taly]

So the only flaw you can see here is that, if both scum reach the endgame, town loses, but they have to place themselves in the endgame pair to do that. The only way this could happen if both scum members are deepwolves. If that's the case, I think the game's over either way, but I'm convinced that there will be at least one red flip in PB/Worm/Gamma/TheBrie/Moment, if not two

Why put yourself in the category of possibly being scum? Do you think

Dr. W

is scum now?

[Taly]

fuck i missed 5043-5045 - this is why i dont do larges often

ehhhh.... ill think about strongest scumreads more today

[Taly]

Sure, but if we're going down an agreed lynchpool we need to 100% stop at any point an unexpected or town/town flip happens

and I don't think quicklynches are a good idea. We have a bit under 5 days and 5 pairs alive, so we have time for discussion.

What is your lynchpool

PB

? You're not defending yourself here or discussing your read on

Dr. W

.

[Taly]

TheBrie+Moment

by all accounts looks like a lynch target by scum specifically.

They were the first to gather votes, and I feel like the rationality for

TheBrie

or

Moment

being scum was both fickle and mostly out of PoE/

TB+Moment

not interacting with the thread.

Also, when

Nancy+Dann

and

Me+Krazy

all had our votes on

DT's

pair -

Gamma/Dr. W/TheBrie

switch onto him, ensuring his lynch.

I think

Dr.W+PB's

vote on

Moment+TheBrie

were less likely to be scum, they weren't very reasoned and didn't have a narrative following a strong argument of

why

TheBrie+Moment

contained scum unlike what I thought of

DT+Gamma's

vote. 4617 - 4917

TheBrie

could very well have voted out of survivalism - but I don't quite know if that's scum-indicative or town-indicative yet, as there could've been motivation for either alignment imo.

Gamma

voteparked on

TheBrie

ever since the beginning of Second Dance, and they've only presented about a maximum of 2 lines explaining their scumread there. 4404 - 4504 - 5036

There's posts I've noted that I want to bring up later - and that I'm talking to

Krazy

about in our PT - that I want to back-up my thinking here.

But right now, I can't see a

DT

-scumteam where

Gamma

isn't a partner of.

I don't know the 3rd scum, but I'm becoming less confident in lynching

PB

off the bat or partially-apathy lynching

Moment+TheBrie

, because that almost feels like the point of lynching them right now tbh...

Gamma

-scum having

Urist

-IC is a good call for scum on a few reasons:

1)

Urists'

reads could be wrong on some currently living pairs, and him being IC vindicates his pushes.

2)

Gamma

was suspected late Pre-Dance, and IC'ing his partner would thwart off suspicion on him for awhile.

I haven't brought up my full case on

Gamma

- as I'm still not 100% sold on them being scum - but I feel like in retrospect, they're more likely scum to me versus

PB

or

Moment/TheBrie

right now.

My fear is that - by lynching

Gamma

- we lose IC. I don't know if acting on this scumread with 5 pairs left still is wise?

I'm going to study. I'll be on in a few hours - and expand on my

Gamma

case if nothing has swayed me. I want people to ISO

Gamma

and come up with their thoughts.

[Taly]

2) Gamma was suspected late Pre-Dance, and IC'ing

her

partner would thwart off suspicion on

her

for awhile.

correcting pronouns

<3

[Taly]

Although, I don't like the way Gamma voted DT conditionally as a way to set up TheBrie/Moment as her next lynch if DT flipped red.

You know what I'm gonna change course here. I've been thinking lynching the scummiest pair imo was the best move but here's the thing: DT has been playing like I'd expect a partner of one of those 2 to play.

So instead I'll vote DT with the statement that upon a scumflip Public Enemies #1 & 2 imo will be TB and Moment.

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

Like, I don't know if it even makes sense to say this. If DT flipped town, would Gamma suddenly not be pushing this pair anymore?

This was also one of my biggest points I brought up about

Gamma

scum to my PT with

Krazy

.

Gamma

didn't vote

DT

because she thought he was scum.

Gamma

voted

DT

because she could push the narrative that incriminated

TheBrie

, via

DT

being a potential partner.

Gamma

scarcely voiced a read on

DT

before this point and her vote was right after mine, so it was a predictable time to buss.

It looked like a compromise-vote that validated her reads - since

DT

scumread

TheBrie

as well - which,

"surprise, surprise"

- is very similar to the reasoning that

Gamma

gave about

TheBrie

being scum of which had been all of 2 lines. 4417

Gamma's

post - 4755

DT's

post.

Moment

has ignored people's questions and

TheBrie's

acceptance of his invitation being

"shady"

was never really touched up on.

It just feels like an excuse to eliminate an easily lynchbaity pair.

I'm not saying

TheBrie+Moment

are locktown or even town/town, but I see almost 0 town-motivation behind

Gamma's

posts upon a

DT

scumflip, and I can link multiple posts right now of

Gamma

noting

Pink Ball+DW

as making 'noteworthy' posts

(4996 - 4999 and 5000 - and 5037)

, but sticks to

TheBrie+Moment

regardless of the large amounts of suspicion casted on

Pink Ball+DW

since AT LEAST

DT's

flip.

It just reads as

Gamma

lining up lynches off 0 basis of reading into the game or having a deep intent to solve it, and

Urist

is an ideal player to IC because he hasn't contradicted the wishes of scum.

[Taly]

I don't want to be in a situation of having ONLY 2 pairs left alive if that can be avoided.

We have 2 scum left to my understanding, and 5 pairs.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

If

PB+Dr.W

townread each other, then I'm NOT OK with having either of them lynched until my strongest scumread is either validated or proven wrong via flip -

Gamma

.



My only grievance is that this eliminates

Urist

as an IC And I don't know if that's wise. So this vote is somewhat tentative, but I want people to indulge in my case or even counteract it if they disagree

p-edit

- outside of just

Gamma

- who ironically appears as I've cased him....

[Taly]

Oh wow so I'm not allowed to correct you if you get something blatantly wrong?

Where did this come from? I said you can disagree with me - but I don't want a 1v1 when I'm trying to gamesolve.

I want other people to point out grievances or agree with me as well.

However this:

Gamma

scarcely voiced a read on

DT

before this point and her vote was right after mine, so it was a predictable time to buss.

is NOT true. I had been scumreading DT quite clearly before.

Can you line the posts narrating your

DT

scumread? Because you've seemed to have focused only on 1 pair being a scumread for the past 3-4 days judging by the majority of your votes.

[Taly]

I guess this is generally understandable but there's some things to consider.
Dann's post reminded me we were on a timetable and there was 0 traction for that pair
I felt like the associative was pretty strong. I should be able to get into why now.

Also a bit confused here? Are you saying there's an associative with

Dann

and

DT

or am I completely misreading?

How am I wrong about my associative read on

You+DT

here?

[Taly]

I'm about to go out with people tonight.

I'll probably respond later - or tomorrow, if time gets away from me.

p-edit

nope,

if

i meant

"

Gamma

isn't allowed to counter my post"

then i WOULD have said

"

Gamma

isn't allowed to counter my post"

[Taly]

FUCK DID

PB

JUST LEAVE?

[Taly]

I have REASON to NOT want

Dr.W+PB

flipped right now because I'm confident

Gamma

is scum, and while a flip on their pairing CAN be helpful to solve

I haven't figured out who'd the 3rd scum would be and it makes NO sense that

PB

would propose this as scum?

So
a pair I think is town/? leaving < lynching town/scum pair

FUCK DID

PB

JUST LEAVE?

It doesn't matter if you guys flip the other two pairs we talked about!

I know, but if you and

Dr. W

town/town then we just got buttfucked into mylo.

I don't want to go off the presumption that the endgame pairs are auto-cleared until any other scumreads we have are lynched or wrong.

[Taly]

[Taly]

WE JUST PISSED AWAY A FREE MISLYNCH OPPORTUNITY ON A COLLECTIVE SCUMREAD WITHIN THE TOWNBLOC.

[Taly]

THIS ENTIRE LAST PAGE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF TOWN SHOOTING THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT

[Taly]

I'm not mad at anyone tbh.

I'm kind of mad I didn't fully explain this before

PB

left the dance.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

PB/Dr. W

townflip only strengthens my read here.

[Taly]

We're not in mylo

But I was starting to think

PB+Dr. W

was town/town.

I would've liked to voice my read progression before they left the dance.

A town/town pairing could still be here - and the ability to discern that through discussion has been taken away from us.

Nancy

, don't be bothered. I overreacted a little bit, but I wanted my sentiment to be strongly understood.

[Taly]

That's why I wasn't 100% set on

PB's

idea to lynch everything outside 2 pairs - because nobody was talking about their immediate scumreads when the plan was mentioned.

I don't care if

PB/Dr. W

was going to survive endgame or not.

I had enough reason to townread them on actual posts, motivations, and the gamestate to NOT want a flip there.

[Taly]

But this doesn't matter, the flips been done, and I don't want to burden you 3 because I think all 3 of you are town

Krazy/Nancy/Dann

Thoughts on

Gamma

and

Moment

now that

PB's

suspicion has been validated?

Why are you both playing up the AtE?

It's not helping.

Well, it’s different than Vedith/Fire because no one pushed him. PB left because of you.

Let's not go down the blame route. Focus on our situation.

[Taly]

Yeah, I think

PB/Krazy

was town/town ending in a poor game decision. I'm not upset with them about the game or personally.

I just thought that this could've been avoided and handled better.

And now, we need to merge with our reads since we're technically in a mutual townbloc between 2 pairs at this point.

[Taly]

I was trying to see if we could have a 3 pair townbloc.

[Taly]

Let's stop talking about reads on

PB

pre-flip since they've already been flipped.

Who is your top scumread

Nancy

?

[Taly]

Yeah side note

Apologize for going all caps and raging. That was not helpful as

Krazy

stated.

I just wanted to get my point across and vividly as possible and it was not the best way.

[Taly]

We'll, we have 2 pairs not in the townbloc.

TheBrie+Moment/Gamma+Urist

I don't think we lynch wrong at this point, but I'm more firm on

Gamma

being scum, and I can still see an argument of

DT+Gamma

being associated with either

Moment+TB

at this point... but I didn't want to bring this thought up until we had more discussion.

[Taly]

Let's stop talking about reads on

PB

pre-flip since they've already been flipped.

Who is your top scumread

Nancy

?

Probably Gamma but I still have paranoia about Brie/moment because Gamma wasn’t in any danger but I’m probably being fooled by DT WIFOM.

I would have both of them gone before PB/Worm. Meh.

But if you want Gamma before Brie/moment, I’ll trust you on that.

Why aren’t Moment/Urist giving us any reads on their partners?

Urist

has essentially stopped playing the game for the most part and I don't know if

Moment

has ever started.

[Taly]

Also, if we had a 3-pair townbloc - town would've had voting power over scum numerically.

We're all 4 votes now and 5 makes a lynch.

We're now relying on a scum/town pair to suicide.

I still want the townbloc to throw votes. :/

[Taly]

Can we stop the bickering?

This is being taken beyond a level it should be.

[Taly]

Ugh. I wish I could delete all my all-caps posts this game.

[Taly]

We'll, we have 2 pairs not in the townbloc.

TheBrie+Moment/Gamma+Urist

I don't think we lynch wrong at this point, but I'm more firm on

Gamma

being scum, and I can still see an argument of

DT+Gamma

being associated with either

Moment+TB

at this point... but I didn't want to bring this thought up until we had more discussion.

Urist is confitown, so at least one scum between those other three. I was also confident on Worm being town since pre-dance.

Where's your vote

Nancy

? Did you read my posts on

Gamma

?

[Taly]

Also, if we had a 3-pair townbloc - town would've had voting power over scum numerically.

We're all 4 votes now and 5 makes a lynch.

We're now relying on a scum/town pair to suicide.

I still want the townbloc to throw votes. :/

I think I need a hug first Taly.

*hugs*

This is just a game

Nancy <3

Even in my rage-posts I haven't forgotten about that and I'm never letting this become personal.

[Taly]

Dann

is embodying my vibe right now. Both about the gamestate and the

DT+Gamma

read.

[Taly]

Nancy/Krazy

should take a break from the thread for a bit if they're very tilted.

Town needs to work together 100% to pull this out.

[Taly]

Nancy

, you're settling on a lot of emotion in the game.

While that is all PERFECTLY valid

, this is the perfect time for you to give yourself a break so you can think clearly about Mafia at hand.

<3

Discuss your problems after the game so you're cooled off enough to speak of them tactfully - because there's no point in getting heated now.

[Taly]

VOTE: Gamma

I wanted to wait for discussion from Moment/Pvt etc. but I'm not confident they're active enough for that to be worth waiting for.

We need to gamesolve and keep our lovers feeling the love

<3 <3 <3

I think this game is definitely solvable, and I feel like

Gamma

is the best person for a partner flip. Upon his flip, I think we'll have a much better picture of

Moment+TheBrie

.

[Taly]

Moment did give me a bit of basic logical analysis before he disappeared again, and basic reds, but he also said he'd not really read the recent game. Since he's not around, I'm going to share it.

He looked at the DT/SS wagon. Only ones not voting at all are him (town he says), SS (flipped town), Pvt (Who he said he town read, didn't seem to be aware he;d been ICed.) From that it's clear scum must have bussed. Also said he townread the last two on the wagon (Dr. Worm, and Me,), so he doesn't think scum hopped on last minute, so the push may have come from scum. And his guess for scum on the wagon without actually reading things is Krazy.

Now that PB has flipped, either there was two scum on the DT lynch, or Moment is scum.
And I like the DT was getting himself lynched to protect someone theory. Also possibly to allow a partner to get town cred by doing it. So who?

Not sure, but in the very likely event

Gamma

flips scum, we'll have the CLEAREST view possible to see who the 3rd scum is based off gamelong interactions.

ISO grouping would be faaar more effective.

If this lynch occurs now or tomorrow, then we still have at least 3 days to sort this out. That gives a lot of discussion power to town.

I need to study Math, so I don't promise I'll post again tonight

<3

Don't take this game too seriously guys.

[Taly]

Am I scum because I've been universally townread most of the game - disregarding the multiple times I've been weary of pocketed, looked deeper into why I'm being townread to see scum-motivation, and consistently asking why people find me so towny?

Because when

Krazy

inquired about your scumread of me, you replied with that you tunnel non-conf

"locktown"

and the post about

"beef with me"

was so vague that I wouldn't have figured out you were speaking directly about me had you not have pretense-d your post like that.

I can give post links if you think I'm pulling the

"I'm resisting the universal townread"

notion in my first question out of my ass.

[Taly]

2) This Moment!TB --> Urist!Gamma lynch seems way too easy, more importantly, there's next to no resistance, which lines up with wolves theory.

If you're saying

Gamma+Your

lynch is too easy, then what do you think about

Moment+TB

?

There was virtually no resistance there until I countered the idea that scum was on it based on

DT's

flip.

[Taly]

Note that the current lynch reasons are "less town-read", not "scummier", which could be said for about the entire game. I don't believe that's a coincidence.

I hard scumread

Gamma

. My vote on him isn't

"I think he might be town but PoE is leading me to..."

[Taly]

X_X her*

fuck I'm bad at pronouns when my mind is in gamesolve mode.

[Taly]

Are you trying to shame my scumread away from you? Because #5244 feels oddly emotionally manipulative.

-"universally townread"
- "disregarding the multiple times I've been weary of pocketed"
- "looked deeper into why I'm being townread to see scum-motivation"
- "consistently asking why people find me so towny"

-probably incorrect into rose tinted glasses
- can't be pocket if you're scam
- scam can do this
- scam should (did) do this

I'm not sure what you're intention is of on your second chapter. Do you imply that it's incorrect? The method is incorrect?

I'm not shaming the scumread you have on me.

I'm pointing out that you haven't really explained it yet beyond the fact that you distrust the universal townread on me.

And I'm telling you right now, I'm well-aware of the townreads on me and I've actively tried to discern whether there is town or scum motivation behind them.

I hard scumread

Gamma

. My vote on him isn't

"I think he might be town but PoE is leading me to..."

This post's NAI. I'd expect both town!Tal and scum!Taly to post this. Ok, maybe not town!Tal.

Have you ever played with me? I don't remember us playing together for you to make this assessment?

And I'm telling you my push on

Gamma

is because I scumread them. I don't think you've acknowledged that yet.

2) This Moment!TB --> Urist!Gamma lynch seems way too easy, more importantly, there's next to no resistance, which lines up with wolves theory.

If you're saying

Gamma+Your

lynch is too easy, then what do you think about

Moment+TB

?

There was virtually no resistance there until I countered the idea that scum was on it based on

DT's

flip.

So why are Moment!TB scum again?

I'm not 100% on either being scum yet. I'm confident one is town. They're more PoE to me than

Gamma

.

I'm confident

Krazy/Dann/Nancy

are all town, and I think

DT+Gamma

partner is very likely, and I think a flip on

Gamma

would help figure the game out through associatives.

Why is

TheBrie+Moment

both town to you?

[Taly]

So we're just going to ignore all my points on

Gamma

being scum and write it off through the idea that I'm scum?

Even though I've wanted people to examine me more thoroughly throughout this entire game?

That's a very coincidental read reverse

Gamma

.

[Taly]

I think

Urist's

posts matter but I know he's misled on at least one of his reads.

Another reason why

Urist

-IC makes very little sense for me to do or allow as scum.

So we're just going to ignore all my points on

Gamma

being scum and write it off through the idea that I'm scum?

Even though I've wanted people to examine me more thoroughly throughout this entire game?

more apples

ok y Gam scam

5081 - 5091

That's a very coincidental read reverse

Gamma

.

0.0[/quote]

Gamma

lock townread me 4333 and gave no indication of that changing.

But automatically - when I case against him and YOU - the IC - read me as scum, his tune changes in5254 - to saying I'm now showcasing a scumtell?

That was a bit abrupt. If he genuinely townread me so strongly, I didn't think his read would evaporate the second I case him as scum.

[Taly]

Even though I've wanted people to examine me more thoroughly throughout this entire game?

This is NAI/scam bamboozle

So what IS AI about me that indicates me as scum?

You're looking at parts of my posts and writing them of as NAI, but you haven't shown that you've entertained my perspective yet...

So we're just going to ignore all my points on

Gamma

being scum and write it off through the idea that I'm scum?

Even though I've wanted people to examine me more thoroughly throughout this entire game?

That's a very coincidental read reverse

Gamma

.

I was right when I called DT out on it. If it works use it.

Call

DT

out on what exactly? A read reversal?

He was one of the few people that kept stating I was town and that he'd sheep me. Of course he wanted to sheep me because if I were wrong, he can deflect the heat on me.

Your read on me was to push me away from scumcasing you.

And keep in mind there's still a chance I change my mind but it's not good rn

Who are you scumreading again

Gamma

? And where's that defense you said you'd make?

[Taly]

I didn't change my read when you cased me. I changed it when you reacted like that to Pvt scumreading you.

How did I react to

Pvt

scumreading me? I voiced that he didn't explain his read much and I'm giving him my view on you in terms of a read.

And even if I did react poorly to

Pvt

scumreading me - was that really enough to dismiss locktowning all the way down to scumreading me?

If you're placing so much emphasis on an IC's reads then you're relying on them instead of using them to sort the game.

I think you're being another voice in

Urist's

head on at least one read he's been wrong about.

You're not even taking my questions and assessments and basing them on what I say. You're going off the

"manipulative angle"

that's been injected into it, namely because

Urist

said it.

I was right when I called out DT on trying to discredit Krazy.
And rn I think scum is one of Moment/TB and you. As for that defense the plan was for that to come with my explanation of why I thought DT's ISO indicated TB or Momebt were scum, but I started working on the other part first.

Who did you think was scum between

TB+Moment

? Because you kept voting

TheBrie

but you also rationalized a reason to scumread

Moment

too - at least because he ignored a question to you.

And OK? You called out

DT

for discrediting

Krazy

? What am I to deduce from this?

[Taly]

Tbh, I can go like this all night, this interaction's only reinforced my reads...

*sigh*

I need to go to bed. It's almost 10, and I have a tutoring session at a 8 AM.

So goodnight everyone

<3

I'll get to the replies - probably later tomorrow since I'll be doing college stuff the entire morning.

p-edit

I think

Urist's

posts matter but I know he's misled on at least one of his reads.

Another reason why

Urist

-IC makes very little sense for me to do or allow as scum.

I think

Urist's

posts matter but I know he's misled on at least one of his reads.

I know

Because I'm pretty sure my role PM says town and I think

Gamma

is scum and

Dann

is town, too?

Our reads aren't really cohesive at all, and nothing about my word usage is disingenuous.

Night

[Taly]

I didn't change my read when you cased me. I changed it when you reacted like that to Pvt scumreading you.

How did I react to

Pvt

scumreading me? I voiced that he didn't explain his read much and I'm giving him my view on you in terms of a read.

And even if I did react poorly to

Pvt

scumreading me - was that really enough to dismiss locktowning all the way down to scumreading me?

If you're placing so much emphasis on an IC's reads then you're relying on them instead of using them to sort the game.

I think you're being another voice in

Urist's

head on at least one read he's been wrong about.

You're not even taking my questions and assessments and basing them on what I say. You're going off the

"manipulative angle"

that's been injected into it, namely because

Urist

said it.

I was right when I called out DT on trying to discredit Krazy.
And rn I think scum is one of Moment/TB and you. As for that defense the plan was for that to come with my explanation of why I thought DT's ISO indicated TB or Momebt were scum, but I started working on the other part first.

Who did you think was scum between

TB+Moment

? Because you kept voting

TheBrie

but you also rationalized a reason to scumread

Moment

too - at least because he ignored a question to you.

And OK? You called out

DT

for discrediting

Krazy

? What am I to deduce from this?

You asked about his read on you in the post? And I didn't just jump on it when Pvt posted that,

I had already had doubts

, as expressed by my "hrm...". And I felt the point was strong enough because I'd been right earlier and it was something me and Pvt both saw.
As for TB/Moment I feel like Moment is more likely scum rn.
As for me calling out DT, I called him out for the same thing I called you out on.

"Something me and Pvt both saw"

- you mean something he brought up and you immediately parroted that? 4259 - 5254?

So, you doubted your locktown on me BEFORE I had even replied to

Urist's

read on me? That's what I'm getting from the bolded?

And what did you call me out on? This is still unclear.

I think

Urist's

posts matter but I know he's misled on at least one of his reads.

Another reason why

Urist

-IC makes very little sense for me to do or allow as scum.

Also I missed this before, this is using current events to try to retroactively prove something in the past as something she wouldn't do. How could Taly know what reads Pvt would come to? Pvt clearly expressed being lost earlier. I'm aware there was mention of Pvt just not trusting unproven locktown but that's not brought up here.

What does this argument accomplish? If I

knew Urist's

reads as if I were

told

, then that's an argument that

Urist+I

were scum together who told me his uncertainty.

I SCUMCASED

URIST

. Again, why would I IC someone I've pushed against because that invalidates a push I made?

Urist

was pretty vague with most of his reads Pre-Dance. I figured since that you're scum who IC'ed someone, you'd try to influence their reads in the direction you'd want them to go in.

I didn't fully know

Urist's

reads until he mentioned them the last 2 pages, which I strongly disagree with for VALID reasons if you guys READ MY POSTS this game.

TheBrie+Moment

I don't know the 3rd scum, but I'm becoming less confident in lynching

PB

off the bat or partially-apathy lynching

Moment+TheBrie

, because that almost feels like the point of lynching them right now tbh...

Gamma

-scum having

Urist

-IC is a good call for scum on a few reasons:

1)

Urists'

reads could be wrong on some currently living pairs, and him being IC vindicates his pushes.

2)

Gamma

was suspected late Pre-Dance, and IC'ing his partner would thwart off suspicion on him for awhile.

I haven't brought up my full case on

Gamma

- as I'm still not 100% sold on them being scum - but I feel like in retrospect, they're more likely scum to me versus

PB

or

Moment/TheBrie

right now.

My fear is that - by lynching

Gamma

- we lose IC. I don't know if acting on this scumread with 5 pairs left still is wise?

I'm going to study. I'll be on in a few hours - and expand on my

Gamma

case if nothing has swayed me. I want people to ISO

Gamma

and come up with their thoughts.

Gamma

didn't vote

DT

because she thought he was scum.

Gamma

voted

DT

because she could push the narrative that incriminated

TheBrie

, via

DT

being a potential partner.

Gamma

scarcely voiced a read on

DT

before this point and her vote was right after mine, so it was a predictable time to buss.

It looked like a compromise-vote that validated her reads - since

DT

scumread

TheBrie

as well - which,

"surprise, surprise"

- is very similar to the reasoning that

Gamma

gave about

TheBrie

being scum of which had been all of 2 lines. 4417

Gamma's

post - 4755

DT's

post.

Moment

has ignored people's questions and

TheBrie's

acceptance of his invitation being

"shady"

was never really touched up on.

It just feels like an excuse to eliminate an easily lynchbaity pair.

I'm not saying

TheBrie+Moment

are locktown or even town/town, but I see almost 0 town-motivation behind

Gamma's

posts upon a

DT

scumflip, and I can link multiple posts right now of

Gamma

noting

Pink Ball+DW

as making 'noteworthy' posts

(4996 - 4999 and 5000 - and 5037)

, but sticks to

TheBrie+Moment

regardless of the large amounts of suspicion casted on

Pink Ball+DW

since AT LEAST

DT's

flip.

It just reads as

Gamma

lining up lynches off 0 basis of reading into the game or having a deep intent to solve it, and

Urist

is an ideal player to IC because he hasn't contradicted the wishes of scum.

Although, I don't like the way Gamma voted DT conditionally as a way to set up TheBrie/Moment as her next lynch if DT flipped red.

You know what I'm gonna change course here. I've been thinking lynching the scummiest pair imo was the best move but here's the thing: DT has been playing like I'd expect a partner of one of those 2 to play. So instead I'll vote DT with the statement that upon a scumflip Public Enemies #1 & 2 imo will be TB and Moment.
VOTE: DoubtingThomas

Like, I don't know if it even makes sense to say this. If DT flipped town, would Gamma suddenly not be pushing this pair anymore?

Looks like they've set us up earlier than I expected.

So the arguments I'm seeing are;

-Urist has shit and incorrect reads (this is repeated atleast 3 times by Taly)
-Gamma is scam because bus?

You're focusing on everything but my explanations and responses to your thoughts.

1)

It's hard to have much opinion on your reads when you DON'T EXPLAIN THEM.

2)

Gamma

isn't just scum because of potential bussing - it's the general association to

DT

as a whole - and it's his entire attitude towards me and you in the last page or so.

Do I need to outline everything point by point to help you understand?

[Taly]

We have 3 days, if people are so confident on who they believe is scum then I don't get the point in withdrawing votes.

[Taly]

I'm going to work toward towncasing the townbloc, too.

I feel like the response I got on the last page concerning

Gamma/Urist

completely ignored my entire read progression and thought proccess throughout this game.

This is virtually the one situation I wanted to avoid.

We're low on pairs. People do convenient read-reversals to scumread me or FINALLY voice a scumread on me - when I feel I've gamesolved - and now the game goes down to whether less-active town do something or we lose to scum via deadline or mislynch.

[Taly]

Nancy

where are you on

TheBrie

at the moment?

[Taly]

I thought of multiple reasons on how

TheBrie

could be associative with

Gamma+DT

outside some of the quotes

Dann

mentioned.

I don't want to hardpush that just yet because I townread

Moment

more and the game depends on his read on

Gamma+TheBrie

since

Urist

hasn't shown that he's deeply evaluated the reasons to scumread either.

[Taly]

I'm in a weird mix of being tilted and apathetic.

I feel like the game is solved but there's maybe 2 people on the same wavelength now, and at least as many people who would disagree with me and finally hardpush me as scum for it because it's easy for them.

I can't force people to read the game.

[Taly]

This kind of proved that my opinions are only valuable when it's convenient to listen to them.

That's one of a laundry list of reasons on why being universally townread is a double-edged sword with a smaller dagger being pointed at you.

[Taly]

RC and Ank were NKed.

It's completely reasonable to assume that they were NKed off read accuracy too.

I want Moment to come in and engage. He should have a stake in this too. I never found a solid reason to scumread him beyond PoE.

[Taly]

I'm still more confident on

Gamma

solely based on the numerous points I've made and the strength of them.

I think

Brie

is scum and

Moment

is town, but it doesn't make sense for me to vote for a lower scumread versus a higher.

I do understand your POV though. Most games I've played in, there's always at least one scum lynch that I didn't initially push

(

DT

in this instance As I was the 4th vote there, even if he was a weaker scumread.)

[Taly]

<3

It's either you or

Moment

casting the vote now. XP I think the entire town is on the same page.

I trusted you on your case to

DT

and it's kind of funny how we're in opposite positions with

Gamma

now. XD

[Taly]

DT+Gamma

could've pre-planned a

Brie

bus-lynch so they can acquire townreads - because it seemed to be the easiest PoE option out of their 3 pairs to campaign.

None of their 3 pairs were townread, and were the last 3 pairs made. It was sensible to think one of their pairs would be targeted to get lynched first - and so that was the narrative they pushed forth.

I don't know if

DT

was protecting anyone but

Gamma

, who he kept distancing from while he voted

Brie

.

When

DT

became the most likely to lynch when both of our pairs

Dancy/Kaly

had voted him,

Gamma

and then

Brie

jumped onto that wagon.

The

DT

lynch forced scum to redirect their plan to a partner they didn't want to lynch. I assume that's why

Gamma

was pretty silent after

DT's

scumflip until I proposed an associative between them.

TheBrie

has really only responded to the gamestate when it was relevant to her, and I've seen her towngame as well - she's typically far more focused and willing to solve the game rather than let it be played while she stands by with otherwise minimal thoughts.

Gamma

is the best lynch right now since he's collective the strongest scumread. I don't think we'd get 5 votes for

Brie

like we do for

Gamma

here.

[Taly]

My WIM falls a little bit the longer

Gamma/Urist

stay alive.

I've 1v1ed so many times but it's very rare for me to have such a one-sided 1v2.

That sounds bad but it's true.

[Taly]

Taly can you translate what is going on in this game when you get a chance -- viewtopic.php?t=78138&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

am I right in understanding that this is simultaneously a town and scum game for you?

lol

fuck dont remind me, i was playing far more to my scum-game D1 and then i lol-fucked town in D2 when i finally focused on my town-game

just throw the whole game link away lmao

that was a game i was shitty regardless of my alignment or the circumstance XD

[Taly]

yeah Open 724 was my Perfect Scum Victory game so I'd say I performed my best there

I deepwolf'd and traumatized

the worst

lol

[Taly]

idgaf about whether people call me or a he or she i'm a cis-male but

*shrug*

[Taly]

Like the 26? posts of Labyrinth are the main basis of your understanding of Scum Taly, right Nancy?

yeah, people like to refer to Labyrinth for me as scum

but i was a traitor who rep-ed out later

so i had no pt and i flaked. i dont think its 100% the best game to look at me for, but i was pretty mid-range performance there and was the last scum slot to be lynched i think?

[Taly]

people give me too much credit for my scum game

im more of a force as town. i wish my scumgame was more like my town - and that i played like THIS as scum

but meh

*shrug*

people are weary of meta's that rely on deepwolfing to an extent.

[Taly]

in the same breath, i wish i got more acknowledgement for how well ive played as town before considering the circumstances

[Taly]

i shot that

TW

N1 and he was the jailkeeper - he townread me

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=76098

in SUPP, he was scum who shot me N1 - i survived to N2 because i had a passive delay utility - i townread him hard tho X_X

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76441

in Echo Bay GRITS, he was an SK and i was one of the mafia groups

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76118

in another game i forgot was when i kind of flaked D:

(but i also replaced in lol)

....

TW

was an SK and i was a heavily scumread townslot

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=76637

now you guys understand

how

TW

and I can very - very easily deathtunnel the other in a game.

[Taly]

i think SCM2 was the first game we both rolled the same alignment

[Taly]

oh look

Dann/Nancy/Krazy

are all here.

Loving this thread at the moment.

[Taly]

I think we're overthinking.

Perhaps we should pause if

Gamma

flips town, but I sincerely, seriously, doubt a deepwolf is amongst us 4. My mind will literally break if that happens.

And so

TB

- by gameplay, associative, and PoE is scum.

[Taly]

Hi I see that I have 3 votes on me rn, could we not before I can present my case and stuff? I've found all the quotes I need so it'll probably be done in 18 hours tops.

Also let's give Pvt a chance to give some reads before we send him off? I don't really feel bothered by being voted but I feel like no one realizes the impact of removing the IC before they've had a chance to give reads

I have such a strong feeling that

Gamma is Grima Wormtongue whispering into the ear of our King IC PvTheoden

re: last night's page of

Taly V Gamma + PvtUrist

[Taly]

I highly doubt anyone who scumread

Urist

at any point Pre-Dance would've been OK to IC him.

[Taly]

Taly

You're pretty strong on Taly > Dancefloor at this point?

Because I've been the most vocal at refuting

Gamma's

posts.

[Taly]

Taly

You're pretty strong on Taly > Dancefloor at this point?

Yeah
I haven't really had reason to question my read on Dann compared to Taly

Where was that reply you promised? The one directly to my case on you?

[Taly]

Taly

You're pretty strong on Taly > Dancefloor at this point?

Yeah
I haven't really had reason to question my read on Dann compared to Taly

Where was that reply you promised? The one directly to my case on you?

This is probably my first rhetorical post of the entire game.

[Taly]

I think I'll come back to the thread if a change in plan for townbloc happens or when a lynch occurs.

I'm just being a bit antagonistic here, and I think the game is solved until proven otherwise.

[Taly]

I highly doubt anyone who scumread

Urist

at any point Pre-Dance would've been OK to IC him.

Taly dude, have you forgotten that scum IC’d Urist?

No I'm meaning, anyone who scumread

Urist

Pre-Dance likely isn't scum at all XD Because I find it hard to think that scum would push against

Urist

if they planned to IC him, especially later in Pre-Dance.

[Taly]

VOTE: Brie

[Taly]

hammer at will

nancel <3

[Taly]

RC

had original reason to scumread

Brie

and he kept waffling. I don't think scum would've been content with keeping a read like that on them - and thus could've contributed to NKing his pair.

Also

DT+Gamma+Brie

makes overall game-narrative and ISO group sense than any other team imo

Brie

saying

Krazy/Me

more likely contain scum wasn't a point to solve. Her buddies are gone, and she's filling the thread with conclusions that are no longer viable because we're correct.

Krazy

was the first to strongly push

DT

.
I was the first to strongly push

Gamma

.

Nancy/Dann

have so many obvtown posts that display their pro-town mentalities in this game that I think the 4 of us are locktown.

Moment

being less-active town makes holistic sense with reads.

[Taly]

hammer at will

nancel <3

I didn’t expect this day to go this fast. Do you think that there’s no value in further discussion first?

No. I truly believe this game is solved.

And in the near-impossible event that the final scum is within the 4 of us.

Dann/Nancy/Krazy/Taly

Making Lylo

>>>

TheBrie/Moment/??/??

Making Lylo

I'd rather have more days for the 4 of us to filter through our towncases than

"strategically lynch on the HYPOTHETICAL possibility scum is within townbloc"

[Taly]

I don't think we are wrong, and I think second-guessing ourselves now will do more harm even if we are wrong.

What do you want to wait for

Nancy

?

[Taly]

Well, we don't know when

Moment

will post, and to our understanding,

Brie+Moment

haven't really engaged much with each other.

So I don't think it's helpful to gauge the validity of our reads around their thinking.

5308 is my most notable post discussing

Brie

associative. If anything makes you a bit unsure about

Brie's

alignment then say it. ^_^

[Taly]

I would be impressed with someone's scumplay if the game didn't end with a Moment-Brie flip.

Impressed is an understatement in this case. XD

[Taly]

We don't know if it'll come to that if we don't do something to find out. XD

We're all in the same boat

Nancy <3

[Taly]

I would be impressed with someone's scumplay if the game didn't end with a Moment-Brie flip.

On the flip side, I’ll be impressed with everyone’s townplay if the game does end

Honestly yeah +1

[Taly]

....

[Taly]

Krazy[//b], why should I stay in the dance?

I need to ask this question.

[Taly]

No, I think

Nancy

having doubts about her hammer is town and I can't think of why she'd do that as scum, that's my first thought.

I'm honestly speechless right now. I don't know how to process scum being amongst the 4 of us.

My first instinct is to ISO group

Gamma+DT

with

Dann

and

Krazy

[Taly]

....I think I might need to keep my eyes away from this game tonight....

I've never been so right and so wrong in a game at the same time.

Should we all link games for meta? I've linked mine.

We should formulate towncases, too.

[Taly]

WHAT THE FUCK

NANCY

HOLY SHIT YOU ARE SCARY AS FUCK AS SCUM

OH MY GOD

[Taly]

WHAT THE FUCK

KRAZY

WHY DID YOU VOTE BBY? AHHHHHH

I DONT BLAME YOU BECAUSE I WOULD NOT HAVE GUESSED

NANCY

BUT OMFG

[Taly]

WHAT THE FUCK

DANN

I DONT KNOW WHY ELSE TO SAY WTF OTHER THAN WHY VOTE TEST ON THE FIRST NIGHT?

AHHHHHH

[Taly]

I KNEW

KRAZY

WAS TOWN.

I KNEW I HAD A KNACK AT LOCKTOWNING AT LEAST ONE SUSPECTED TOWN PER GAME.

BUT OMFG

NANCY

BBY!!!!

[Taly]

I JUST WOKE UP GUYS HOLY SHIT

[Taly]

UGGHHHHHH

I WAS SO GOOD AT THIS GAME

AND SO BAD AT THE SAME TIME.

UUGUUGGHGHHGHGHGHGHHGHGHGHHGHHHHH

[Taly]

Fun game ty for modding

fakegod <3 <3 <3

you were fun sharing a PT with

krazy

^_^

[Taly]

where's the fucking scummies thread

[Taly]

WHAT THE FUCK DANN

I DONT KNOW WHY ELSE TO SAY WTF OTHER THAN WHY VOTE TEST ON THE FIRST NIGHT?

ik this is my biggest regret

and really stupid I think

if I had given time for taly and krazy to prove their towniness, which I think you guys could've. I might've been able to re-examine my nancy concerns enough

i got trigger happy

OH NO I AM NOT MAD. YOU PLAYED THIS GAME VERY WELL <3

I WAS TRIGGER HAPPY WITH

MOMENT+TB

I CAN'T TALK.

[Taly]

I was pocketed by

NANCY

?

NANCY

? I was wondering if

Dann

was pocketing her. O_o

I was so misted I kept reading an emotional undertone in her posts that I didn't think could be faked. I didn't think she would play the entire game through applying emotion and engaging with every single thing in the thread.

I honestly didn't know why she would take pause on

Moment+TB

as scum. I wasn't going to IC her 100%, but why would she resist the opportunity to town/town lynch? To set up a dichotomy amongst the other townies?

[Taly]

I've been playing Mafia since 2015 and this game taught me some stuff. Wow.

[Taly]

I also don't think Vedith played badly pre-dance. Certainly not to the level of being needed to be marginalized using a "skip day 1" strategy.

Sadly, a basic level of trust was missing from the overall town in pre-dance.

I tried to mend this issue but I felt like I become a vector of paranoia Pre Dance X.X

And half of Second Dance I was TvTing for some number of reasons.

[Taly]

I think Dann would've been my most optimal partner in hindsight.

Might not have saved Krazy from suspicion but figuring out Nancy scum would've been much easier if we shared a PT and had more confidence

[Taly]

*throws post game <3's at

FB

aggressively*

[Taly]

The police can have some <3's

I don't discriminate

[Taly]

my hands have been up this entire time :3

[Taly]

Disclaimer:

I'm not in anyway commenting on what has been mentioned by

FG

and

Nancy

, as I don't believe it's my place. But this situation gave me a realization.

I think it's 100% reasonable for mods to make it a common rule that replace-outs should be taken

exclusively

in PM. Replacing out is a personal matter and should be treated with such respect. This situation has told me that I should ever only replace-out whenever I absolutely cannot keep up with the game and I have a 1-on-1 discussion with the mod about that.

In the same breath, I feel ignorant here, as I've gathered somewhat of a reputation of flaking every 4th or 5th game I /in. If I can't handle a Mafia game -

(which is actually pretty taxing and stressful, regardless of the allure to it)

- through emotional or time means, then I shouldn't /in at all. No matter how much I love the playerlist, no matter how much I love the setup, no matter how much fun I think the game will be -

I should not /in if I ever doubt my ability to stick through the game.

So I want to change my attitude here. I will give myself a few weeks time to 'recover' between each game I finish, and the amount of games I can keep up with at once is only 1, so I'll only be in 1 game at a time. Even if I played in a hydra.

For the next several weeks - should a game I really want to play comes out - I will just

/in to spectate

and live vicariously through the person most likely to be mislynched.

[Taly]

Final note before I sleep

I think people underestimate how deep of a mind/social game Mafia can be.

It's literally one of those games people can play while putting down their societal barriers on how they communicate with someone.

It brings people back to a raw mentality of how to socialize, how to interpret people, and how to solve problems among a group of people who share a mutual interest or are trying to deter that mutual interest from accomplishing anything.

That's why emotional outbursts can happen from most people regardless of alignment, and why actions by themselves in mafia are NAI a lot of the time.

It's a game of people who are pitted against each other and at the same time, trying to work with each other. It's built to create conflict alongside the excitement.