Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

[Clemency]

because at least then people wont get to counter arguments by going "nah lets lynch robert"

[Clemency]

post 2000
nice

[Pink Ball]

@Elena what I meant with fencesitting is that voting Clem has no benefit and helps you avoid voting Morality, Near x Mello or whoever was being discussed at that moment. But that's just my opinion.

I don't want to talk about my townread of Morality 'cause I it would be giving scum a platform to say "your read is bullshit because bla bla bla and I'm not going to change my mind about him with that kind of discussion 'cause I'll think it's scum trying to change my mind, so I'd rather discuss it with my townreads who could convince me about him. Makes sense?

[mastina]

someone with more experience with her tell me if mastina always makes empty meaningless statements like this

It's a scumtell of mine not to.

I stopped understanding the game since Mastina started voting Morality
help

Remember when I said, in regards to Pink Ball, that just because a point is good does not mean the point is right? How in spite of how good my points were against him, that they were wrong because he was actually town?

This metric applies for my POE pool.

I hold to my POE pool being correct.

I also hold to my original POE pool having good points.

I just don't think that the points which I originally thought were right, actually are, RE: Reasonably Psychotic, Near x Mello.

And yet I do think my points are right, RE: Toogeloo, Morality, Robert.

Near x Mello, I made many good points for why they'd be scum--but these points are neutered by one critical point; who is their scumteam? They don't match with any of the names inside the POE pool. Heck, even outside of the POE pool, common names people want to put inside of it they don't match with, either. They're not scumbuddies with Elena given those two slots' interactions. Would they be scum with Gamma? Haven't investigated that, but who'd be the final scum in that team, hypothetically?

I simply can't place them in a scumteam--and because of that, that's fairly compelling evidence that my points for them being scum are wrong. Obviously, it is possible that I am missing a scumteam that works, that they are scum and I simply don't see their scumteam because it is that well masked or I am that blind interactions-wise. So they are still in the POE for that reason. But realistically, if I voted them I'd be expecting them to not flip scum right now, making them a bad vote.

Reasonably Psychotic is in a sense a backup scum candidate. I made many good points for why they'd be scum, and these points don't really have much of a neuter to them. However, my current solve involves Toogeloo being scum (you saw me give reasons for this in the neighborhood and the only reason I'm not publicly stating said reasons is because Toogeloo is set to die tonight and thus bringing them to the main thread's a distraction we don't need right now) and indicates that Reasonably Psychotic is less likely to be his scumbuddy.

They are still possible scum and if desperate I'd vote them; I'd vote them way, way, WAY before I'd vote Near x Mello (who I'd be willing to vote if desperately needing to avert a lynch on a townread), but while they could be scum, the odds of my points being right feel lower. This is largely, yes, I admit, based on the POE pool combined with interactions such as VCA; the scum voting patterns don't quite match Cerb's modus operandi if he were scum. They COULD match, depending on exact scumteam membership, but balance of probabilities weakly favors this not being him as a scum mastermind.

Toogeloo has VERY strong reasons for being scum and I strongly feel they are right, but due to his claimed role, he gets a one-day pass.
Morality has VERY strong reasons for being scum and I strongly feel that they are right--and more than that, because he is a high-profile player, his flip regardless of scum or town gives us a shitload of information. This, aside from the fact that he is almost certainly the scum mastermind of this game since the confirmed AND suspected scum's interactions match his modus operandi, meaning depriving them of their heavy-hitter and best scum member would be an almost instant town win.

Robert has only some weak reasons for being scum; I feel they are right, but they're weak. I laid them out before; it's a combination of him being in the lurker zone, of him providing more content as town so weak burden-of-proficiency, of him basically being poe-scum. He is a low-profile player, and regardless of a scumflip or a townflip his flip gives us next-to-zero information to work off of. If he's scum as I suspect, it does deprive the scum of an additional member and make them slightly more desperate, but it doesn't trigger an auto-loss for them, not even if he's their strongest scum role.

There's also the fact that Robert is probably being replaced soon--him not having given much (half the reason I think he's scum) could be null due to real life stuff interfering, so my hope is that a replacement comes in and the replacement gives us a much better read on the slot. There's almost nobody who could replace in without me being fully confident I'd be able to read them and clear the slot up; give final proof that it's a scum slot, or give evidence that the read was wrong. And regardless of which, said replacement would give us more info.

So while I'm not against a Robert lynch, it's not ideal.
While I'm not going to fight a Reasonably Psychotic lynch, it's a desperation lynch.
While I'm not going to argue strongly against a Near x Mello lynch, it's a lynch of absolute last resort.
I'd rather play sub-optimally and just lynch Toogeloo today rather than test him tonight, than lynch either Reasonably Psychotic or Near x Mello.
But my preference would be Morality > Robert > Toogeloo > Reasonably Psychotic > Near x Mello > Literally Any Other Player In The Game.

If there were any actual cases against me, I’d happily tear them down

There IS an actual case. I'm just having trouble finding my words for it.

[Joan of Arc]

Even if he is scum, what's the harm of making the most use of his role?

[Joan of Arc]

I know his role, and even if he is actually scum, it's the one which needs to be used before his lynch.

[Flavor Leaf]

I mean, in my scum games, I create a very strong path for my team to win. This happened in the game I quoted the sig from. I flat out claimed who my scum members likely were, and because of it, no one ever lynched them.

Alongside people generally expect me to scum theatre very genuinely, so even people who come after me hard and vice versa aren’t safe.

I’m unsure why it’s assumed my team would fall without me if I were scum.

We won’t find that out, obviously, I’m not scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

sigh
this is gonna flip town
VOTE: robert

Why Tobert over Elena if you think they’ll flip town.

The gang of them have constantly said either me or Robert, and they’ve very much almost forgotten about Elena.

[mastina]

i'm certain town wisdom would have responded more aggressively to a push like that on him

Actually, it's the opposite--I'd expect a scum Wisdom to respond more aggressively to a push like that on him, whereas a town Wisdom wouldn't. Sure, the Kokichi Oma half would--and DID. Look at Kokichi's reaction to my push on Near x Mello for proof of this.

Mastina has a post in the hood that no scum will take the effort to fake. I don't think I need to say this but still

Since I'm using this as a point against Morality and fair's fair, obligatory reminder that my neighborhood content is not a good metric by which to townread me, not even remotely.

Neighborhoods can, and have been, manipulated. *coughMoralitycough*

I can, confidently, say that I am as obvtown right now as it is possible for me to be given my natural competency as scum (scumastina's obvtown enough that being well and truly obvtown beyond all reprieve is at this point impossible), but it's not off of the neighborhood; the neighborhood should be more or less discarded in terms of being town. (Neighborhoods can contribute to a scumread, but shouldn't really contribute to a townread in like 80-90% of the times, barring special circumstances.)

Rather than scum won't put in the effort to fake it, more like, scum won't think of doing what she did there. It's just something you won't say you did unless you actually did it.

Case and point, I know what post you're referring to and I have done something similar to this at least twice as scum, making it a bad metric to use. (Admittedly, both times I had reasons; there was a scum agenda to achieve in one case where I desperately needed to manipulate the gamestate in my favor, and the other time was a simple case of me knowing I did it as town so I did it as scum--not faked doing it as scum, LEGITIMATELY, genuinely, did it as scum. Because scumastina is many things, a faker is not among them. When I say I do something, I do it, it's just not always town.)

Which is why I reiterate: what Morality has done in the neighborhood fundamentally CANNOT be evidence of him being town. No matter what is there.

[mastina]

I didn’t expect scum to just out themselves the way Chito just did.

Yes because obviously the scumteam went out of its way to call you scum.

Obviously, Near x Mello, mastina, and Chito/Yuuri are in collusion with one another to lynch you because we deemed you that much of a threat.

Clearly, we are scum together and could in no way shape or form be town who have formed genuine scumreads on you.

[mastina]

I didn’t expect scum to just out themselves the way Chito just did.

Yes because obviously the scumteam went out of its way to call you scum.

Obviously, Near x Mello, mastina, and Chito/Yuuri are in collusion with one another to lynch you because we deemed you that much of a threat.

Clearly, we are scum together and could in no way shape or form be town who have formed genuine scumreads on you.

And by this, I mean.

When Near x Mello pushed Morality, Morality called them scum.
When I pushed Morality, Morality called them scum.
When Chito and Yuuri pushed Morality, Morality called them scum.

Noticing a trend?

[mastina]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78330&user_select%5B%5D=32341
Here’s Weiss as town. Completely posts thoughts, stances.

That hydra has been giving complete thoughts and stances in posts for literally the entirety of the game; their iso is ripe with exactly that.
You use a single post to say that they aren't doing that.
When literally the entirety of their iso other than that single post is them doing precisely that.

That was too much political

[mastina]

My Loud isn’t the part of my role that will confirm me. Well, it helps with that, but that specifically isn’t the part that will, which is why Mastina is being hard headed when she tunnels onto that Loud factor, because that’s a non factor really.

This is a nice misrep of the situation, since my initial impression was that you were claiming the Loud part WAS what made you confirmable; I demonstrated it did not.

My stance once you clarified otherwise remained consistent; confirmable role != confirmable alignment.

Doesn't matter if you're a vig, doesn't matter if you're a public cop, doesn't matter if you announce a targeted action, beit protective, investigative, killing, miscellaneous, manipulative, what have you. All that does is confirm that the mod gave you that role; no usage of it will confirm your alignment.

I’m literally fucking confirmable

And why should I care your role's confirmable? When a confirmed role doesn't equal a confirmed alignment?

I have fucking constantly been calling Mastina’s fucking town.

Uh-huh.

Mastina has a forced subtle projected trajectory with me, that if she ends up red, shows she was completely scum caught in the bait.
I’m just not super confident in her being Red, and I don’t want to mislynch her because I’d feel bad.

Just because you weren't super-confident doesn't mean you weren't calling me scum here.

Nah, I think you and Mastina have scum theatred it up. Falls perfectly in line with Mastina saying that she still can see you and I as teammates, but probably not. She went from scum reading you, and she used me as the pivot to get off of her scum buddy.

You guys were classic scum theatre after looking at it. You would have been far more upset with Mastina had she been scum reading you after you stated she contradicted herself and blatantly lied, then the two of you shift momentum onto me when your other lynched weren’t working out. Your pools lined up with each ofther, but you contradicted each other just enough to make it seem like you were on opposite sides, and then Mastina pulls the trigger because she fixed her trajectory once I started baiting you.

In addition to Mastina definitely able to “do the most”, my town read on her was flawed earlier, as after the forced trajectory, her previously town motivated agenda turns into a projected town motivated agenda, but she had to change it up because scum was hurting. Especially after Vedith flip. She’s also pushing the game the most as “solved” due to Vedith flipping and interactions, when Vedith is not that surface level of a player. She was using that as a crutch to show conviction. You guys pounced on me expecting support.

On top of that, Elena and Robert are both easy to push as “‘mechanically accurate” whilst not actually opening he game up much, and Elena is a strong player, making that mindset scum orientated while projecting towniness.

You can argue you were pushing Near x Mello over me here but you were still pushing me.

“Get off of her scum buddy” in the political sense, not necessarily voting wise. I don’t know if she was voting you or not. Doesn’t really matter.

She’s also setting up Toogelo, and allowing options for herself and allowing herself to pivot depending on what plan is chosen.

Sure doesn't seem like you scumread me at all here. Clearly.

I’m Asta from Black clover.
When one of my “friends” are lynched, I have to target on the wagon. If I hit scum they die, and a global announcement will state that it was me. If I don’t hit scum, I roleblock whoever I targeted, and they’ll know I targeted them.

What a remarkably unconfirmable role.

Chito: This level of exasperated flail is like very slightly townie

Not from Morality it isn't--quite the opposite, he can get remarkably toxic as scum.

[mastina]

Well, the Asta from Black Clover is real.

And I'm willing to bet more of that is true than you let on, such as needing to wait until N2 thus the increased activity.

Still doesn't make it any more town.

You and Mastina just don’t know how to manage ScumMe yet, so you just assume every game I can come out as scum.

Demonstrably false; I have correctly pegged a town-you as being town and that is why I am so adamant that this is you as scum, because the you of this game is NOT the you of your towngame.

[mastina]

I never kill Drixx night 1 either. He was the other person in my channel talking at the time.

That is PRECISELY the reason you would kill him; Drixx served as competition for dominance of said neighborhood and was the one voice in there most likely to be skeptical of you--he may have had mechanical reasons to let you live and exploit you, and he may have even gone so far as to townread you, only members of the neighborhood would be able to comment on that, but he was also the one and only player in there who would EVER be skeptical, who would EVER be cautious, about you.

By that, I mean, even if he was currently townreading you, he was the only player there who could turn around and scumread you; he was the only player there who could sway other members around to said scumread if it ever had a chance to develop. Eliminating him before he'd get a chance to turn on you is basic scumplay. You don't kill the people scumreading you right now; you kill the people who are townreading you that are at the highest risk of turning around later to scumread you.

I also wouldn’t have defended Vedith on a personal level basis without actual reasons. Vedith doesn’t get lynched if I was his buddy.

Vedith absolutely gets lynched as not only caught lying scum, but counterclaimed scum. You might be able to defend him against one of those, but the one-two combo punch of them was guaranteed to kill him, especially given the resistance to other wagons present.

You did attempt a counterwagon, to your credit--one which had, at a time, no less than three scum candidates on it. (Albeit possibly not at the same time, would need to check that to verify.)

Votecount 1.11

Vedith(5)

~ Near x Mello(73), Chito and Yuuri(70), Torque(60), Clemency(43), Spike and Jet(115)

Pink Ball(5)

~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29), Robert2424(15), Almost50(44), Vedith(41)

mastina(2)

~ Toogeloo(21), Pink Ball(124)

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ Elena Fisher(20), Dunnstral(25)

Votecount 1.15

Vedith(5)

~ Near x Mello(91), Chito and Yuuri(79), Clemency(52), mastina(73), Joan of Arc(32)

Pink Ball(3)

~ Robert2424(17), Gamma Emerald(78), Morality(29)

mastina(3)

~ Toogeloo(25), Almost50(53), Spike and Jet(124)

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(157)

Drixx(2)

~ singletonking(48), Torque(67)

Specifically, I am referring to the Pink Ball counterwagon; Robert, Vedith, and yourself all appear on it.

It just didn't go through, because it

couldn't

go through.

[mastina]

VOTE: Robert
Elena, Gamma, Robert.

Nope, nothing suspicious about naming consensus scumreads as your three preferred lynches, nothing at all even remotely.

[Chito and Yuuri]

Clearly, we are scum together and could in no way shape or form be town who have formed genuine scumreads on you.

Chito: To be clear, our vote hasn't moved from Morality yet because I want to talk to Yuuri about Elena's argument on Clem vs. Dunn's case on Robert in our hydra PT; also, perhaps, I very slightly want him lynched for talking shit about Nancy and so I wouldn't mind lynching him out of spite. But I'm not particularly optimistic he flips red at this point.

[mastina]

The gang of them have constantly said either me or Robert, and they’ve very much almost forgotten about Elena.

That would be because Elena has shown she's town and won't be lynched today; you and Robert, no such showing.

Even if he is scum, what's the harm of making the most use of his role?

Remember when you used that logic on Reasonably Rational?

Remember how we had a chance to lynch him much earlier but let him live?

Remember how they used that opportunity to live long enough to wipe your faction out and come dangerously close to winning the game?

THAT would be the harm of making the most use of his role.

I mean, in my scum games, I create a very strong path for my team to win.

And part of my case revolves how your play has been setting up precisely this.

[Clemency]

VOTE: Robert
Elena, Gamma, Robert.

Nope, nothing suspicious about naming consensus scumreads as your three preferred lynches, nothing at all even remotely.

this reminded me
i'm still doing the part of "vigging" toog
so if i'm dead tomorrow and they aren't
you know what to do

[mastina]

Even if he is scum, what's the harm of making the most use of his role?

Remember when you used that logic on Reasonably Rational?

Remember how we had a chance to lynch him much earlier but let him live?

Remember how they used that opportunity to live long enough to wipe your faction out and come dangerously close to winning the game?

THAT would be the harm of making the most use of his role.

And to reiterate.

Flavor Leaf's stance on me is that as scum, I am too dangerous to let live--he compared me to him, noting that we are similar.
Flavor Leaf's stance on me is that as scum, I need to be lynched immediately, to prevent me from gaining a foothold in the game--again, to reiterate, his logic behind this is that he and I share scum styles of play.

It then is obvious to figure the natural conclusion--as scum, Flavor Leaf knows that if he is left alive, he can gain a foothold on the game from which he can lead his scumteam to victory.

So the reason not to let him live is because he himself knows that if he is left alive, he is dangerous enough to win the game as scum.

[mastina]

Even if he is scum, what's the harm of making the most use of his role?

Remember when you used that logic on Reasonably Rational?

Remember how we had a chance to lynch him much earlier but let him live?

Remember how they used that opportunity to live long enough to wipe your faction out and come dangerously close to winning the game?

THAT would be the harm of making the most use of his role.

And to reiterate.

Flavor Leaf's stance on me is that as scum, I am too dangerous to let live--he compared me to him, noting that we are similar.
Flavor Leaf's stance on me is that as scum, I need to be lynched immediately, to prevent me from gaining a foothold in the game--again, to reiterate, his logic behind this is that he and I share scum styles of play.

It then is obvious to figure the natural conclusion--as scum, Flavor Leaf knows that if he is left alive, he can gain a foothold on the game from which he can lead his scumteam to victory.

So the reason not to let him live is because he himself knows that if he is left alive, he is dangerous enough to win the game as scum.

And to even further reiterate--he said to fuck my role, fuck how "scum would take care of me eventually", that I was too dangerous for waiting on that, because he and I were that similar.

Yet here.

He is saying scum would take care of him eventually--in spite of how he knows that he is dangerous enough that waiting that long gives him the advantage.

[Joan of Arc]

That's true, but we never actually tried to force RR to use his protective, did we?

[Joan of Arc]

Also, I wasn't the one who used that logic on RR. Titus was.

[Gamma Emerald]

I like Near's case on Robert rn

[Almost50]

Lynch Elena