Newbie 617 (Over!)

[Brandi]

Brandi- She said she got it, yet she still voted him for it in her first post....

That makes absolutely no sense armlx. Thats the most backwards crap logic I've ever seen in my life. I'm scummy because I realized something

now

that I didn't before? Something that didn't even come to mind until

after

you noted it in a much later post? It's called progression of events. REGARDLESS, my vote for Mike was R A N D O M. GENERALLY on page one there is this thing that takes place called 'random voting' in which the players vote for another player with out any serious logic or basis behind their vote. For more information, check the Mafia wiki here: Random Vote

Anyway, I only stated I understood your point, and that you MIGHT be correct. I

never

said I

accepted

your point. To completely accept your assumption on Mike would be MAJOR WIFOM.

Also, I disagree with your stance on Bazza. He has come off as slightly scummy to me in other ways, but definitely not in the way you proclaimed. He was just posting his assumptions, like everyone else. Nothing he has done or said has been remotely harmful thus far and I definitely see no indication of where he was insinuating that any sort of wagon should be formed, either.

You are gradually moving into my scumdar armlx with each post you make. I figured that you perhaps had a genuine interest in helping the town when you pointed out your certainty on Mike-Zim. However, you seem to be a bit

too

focused on him much

too

early. I don't find it very pro-town of you to only give your input when its relevant to you or your own personal agenda. I think that someone who is genuinely pro-town would try to give at least the slightest opinion on multiple aspects of the general conversation.

Mike Zim, however, is not an experienced player, and his statement is very easy to read.

Inexperienced != confirmed town.

His inexperienced methods of play could just as much be newb scum as it could be newb town.

I'm inexperienced as well yet you didn't have any problem jumping on me at the beginning.

Armlx, I think you have a very, very bad case of

Confirmation Bias.

If

Mike

Armlx genuinely did believe that he felt Mike was a power-role there was no need to mention it so early in the game when there was little pressure on Mike.

QFT.


Most scummy: Armlx, for reasons stated above. Which I believe is still not enough to warrant a vote. Definitely a HOS though.

Second most: Bazza, for his seemingly over defensiveness towards mike. Not necessarily a tell. FOS for this.


Neutral (In no particular order): Mike-Zim; Q-man; Angelmouse; Cammy

Least scummy would have to be Caf. Hes given a lot of unbiased opinions and seems to have a genuine interest in helping the town. Second least scummy would be Darox, for the same reasons as Caf only just a little less apparent.

BTW, I would like Cammy to give his input on some things, he hasn't been posting much as of lately, I almost completely forgot about him.)

[armlx]

No, he shows a specific tell I have seen from new players many times before. I don't assume someone is town b/c they are new, I assume they are town b/c they act so within the newbie pardigram.

You say you disagree with me on Bazza, yet he is 2 on your scum list. Please explain the contradiction I am seeing.

[Brandi]

I specifically stated I found him scummy for

different

reasons.

...I disagree with your stance on Bazza. He has come off as

slightly scummy to me in other ways

...

Bazza, for his seemingly

over defensiveness towards mike

.

He is number 2, but only because everyone else seems just neutral or simply very pro-town.

[Brandi]

Never mind about what I said about Clammy, I guess I didn't realize his last post was yesterday. It just feels like he doesn't have much of a presence here... Though some input would be nice whenever he gets back. And Q-man still hasn't posted yet today even though he said he would. I'm sure he has important things to do though. I would have made a post yesterday if I hadn't been so pre-occupied the whole day.

[armlx]

I'm willing to set aside what I'm seeing from your posts and believe you didn't get it. That pushes Bazza to position one.

Unvote, Vote Bazza

[Brandi]

One thing I will commend you on Armlx is your level of activity here. Its good that you can help to keep discussion going when needed. =)

[Darox]

Interesting (But not unexpected) results.

I'm not buying armlx's reasons for his most scummy list at all, they seem rather frivolous.

Once again I can see why armlx could be defending mike, but I'm still not buying that you felt so certain of his innocence that you needed to defend him zealously right from the beginning of the game.

I think Bazza and armlx are both rather suspicious.

Armlx for the reasons I have constantly mentioned, and Bazza particularly for his last post which contained elements I disagree with.

Words do not PROVE anyones innocence unless it's a role-claim which hasn't been counter-claimed.

I don't like the implied idea that we should accept what people claim as pure truth if they are not contested, especially if they claim a power role.

i did not attempt to start a bandwagon at all and you saying that i did makes me even more heavily suspicious of you.

Firstly the fact that armlx actually stated that you jumped onto a bandwagon, rather than starting one, and then then fact you used his suspicions as an excuse to claim him as scummy both look very shady to me.

The town should be suspicious of everybody, because they don't know who is on their side. Having someone think you are acting scummy is not a scumtell. (Unless they are trying to shift a bandwagon, but this is not the case)

What does ping the scumdar however is overreacting to suspicions, like you did just there.

I'm not liking either of them right now.

[armlx]

You call my reasons frivolous then use one. I think you need to re-evaluate your statement.

[Darox]

Most scummy (tie):
Brandi- She said she got it, yet she still voted him for it in her first post....
Bazza- The "flippant" remark sounds a lot like trying to push a wagon without actually making sense.

I called your reason frivolous because you also attacked Brandi for being flippant, namely for her random vote on mike-zim. Hypocritical would probably have been a better word.

I did not list Bazza as one of my suspects because of the flippant mark, but more because of his reaction to your suspicion.

What reasoning of mine was frivolous?

[Brandi]

armlx never mentioned that I was flippant. He said something or other about opportunism or something like that. what the heck does flippant mean anyway?

[armlx]

I felt Brandi's behavior towards Mike Zim has really been taking advantage of the situation I have put him in. I never said flippant. That was Bazza.

[Darox]

Ok, lets try to clarify here.

When I called Armlx's reasoning frivolous I was primarily responding to the reasoning for Bazza. He criticized Bazza for trying to push a wagon on Brandi

which he was already on.

Not only that, but he had a pretty weak case on the bandwagon, assuming that Brandi's random vote (Which was confirmed to be random before you even starting wagoning) was serious.

I shouldn't have used the word flippant, I was just comparing your actions to Bazza's as the reason why I considered your criticism of Bazza frivolous.

And my initial posting doesn't use the word flippant in reference to you at all, armlx.

As for your reasons to suspect Brandi, you are basing it off a random vote, which to me does seem rather lacking.
Again, what reasoning of mine was frivolous?

[armlx]

The fact he FOS'ed and never actually voted is also suspect.

[Darox]

We really need the other players in here, the only people really discussing are me, Brandi, and Armlx, with a one off comment by Bazza.

Time to send out the prods?

[Brandi]

Q-man said he'd post today and hasn't. I'd say a prod to AngelMouse and Q-man. Clammy said that he'd be away for a while yesterday... so he doesn't need a prod.

[Bazza-Scumfinder]

@ Darox- In this set-up it is most likely that a role-claim which has not been contested means the role-claim is Proof of innocence in Day 1. THAT IS FACT.

Whether it was jumping or starting a bandwagon is of no consequence, the fact is that none of my suspicions of Brandi were pointed out in an attempt to start a bandwagon. Infact, despite Braindi's misguided suspicions on me, i'm finding her a bit more pro-townie.

As for Armix i'm finding him more suspicious, i explained the reason for my FoS, he never placed a rebutal yet still says it was suspicious....he seems to be inflating artguments...and is moving his vote, because he sees that a bandwagon may be about to begin.

Personally, i think that Armix knows Mike-zim is a townie and is supporting him. The reason he ius doing this is it will make him look pro-townie on Day2.

I swear i am townie, voting for me is a mistake.

Vote, Armix

[Darox]

I swear i am townie, voting for me is a mistake.

I really, really don't like that appeal.

Oh and, in this setup, theres no way to be certain (Unless you are that role) which power roles are actually in the game.
Just because someone claimed, say, doctor, and noone else speaks up, this doesn't mean the person claiming is the doctor or even pro town.
For starters, there might not even be a doctor in the setup, and if he is, and counter claims, it is rather likely that he will be #1 on the mafia hitlist.
And if the claimer is about to be lynched and is scum, outing the real doctor or avoiding the noose for a day will both benefit the mafia greatly.

Or are you trying to set it up so that no one questions your premade claim in case you need it?

I wasn't so sure before, but I think Bazza merits more attention today then Armlx.

Vote: Bazza-Scumfinder

[mike-zim]

I love this game 1 minute i am Scum the next i am Superman.

Armlx is right in saying that i am inexperienced. Why he is defending me i don't know (but it is nice). I have no idea of the power role i am supposed to have given off but it would be foolish of me to come out and either confirm or deny it.

If i say yeah i am powerman then scum kill me at night, if i say i am just townie i look like i could be scum. so it is a lose lose situation.

Bazza i can see how you came to the conclusions, and your reasonings seem to make you look like an experienced player. The only thing i wonder is are you using it as a smoke screen to cover your tracks?

Brandi perhaps i am being cautious but i think that will be my play style. i am not an aggressor. i am enthusiastic because this game changes the whole time. just looking forward to it!

I must say i am a little suspicious of Bazza and armlx but that is because they are going at it so hard. It would be nice to see what other players who havent posted much think.

[clammy]

For now, I am fine with Mike and armlx both staying alive today, but if I don't hear what armlx has to say on the matter day 2 then I think we should lynch both of them, starting with armlx.

Reason being, theres two likely reasons why he is doing this, and one of them involves them both being scum.

CrapLogic^TM.

Cannot believe this was missed! All of the following conversation, the words (oh the words! - oh my eyes!) together do not equate to anything compared to this comment.

It's logical, oh yes, but Darox, let me guess this straight, you want to determine who our D2 and D3 lynches are on page 4??

*facepalm*

unvote; vote: darox

[Darox]

Hey hey, the first sign that someone thinks I might be scummy. I was wondering when that would happen.

The reason I

suggested

that we should lynch one (Or both, depending on the outcome of the first) of them was because of armlx's rapid and zealous defense of mikezim based on two posts, which struck me as very odd. At that time, Bazza did not present himself as potential scum in my books, so I was pressuring armlx to see if I could turn up anything.

Although I wouldn't like to lynch them right away D2 without some more evidence, I have a worry that if we just let both of them slide because armlx has a feeling about mike being protown, then we could be letting the scum skip merrily down to the endgame without a fight. Like I said, theres only two likely reasons why he is defending him, one involves them being town, and one involves armlx (Or both) being scum.
If its the former, he's executed it badly.

I guess it did eventually achieve its ultimate goal of generating conversation, even if it wasn't the response from armlx/mike I was hoping for.

Oh and,
Who do you think is most scummy?

Who do you think is least scummy?

[clammy]

At this stage you have my vote, that should speak for itself.

And i do not buy the "but it generated conversation" defense.

[Darox]

Ah, but who do you think is least scummy?

I'm not at all worried about your vote, and I'm not using "But it generated conversation" as a defense, I'm not defending my actions at all.

I'm just giving reasoning behind my logic. I thought that at the time it would help scumhunt.

I'd be more worried if you weren't suspicious. Townies shouldn't be that quick to trust anyone, and maintain a healthy dose of skepticism. Up until you showed up noone had even so much as FoS'ed me, and I was even listed as least scummy by two people. Agreeing with a person on an issue is one thing, not questioning that person is another.

And we still haven't heard from Qman or Angelmouse.

[clammy]

I guess it did eventually achieve its ultimate goal of generating conversation

And that's not a defense?

Why are you wanting people to believe you're so comfortable and secure that you have no need to defend your actions?

[Darox]

Read my post again, I am encouraging people to examine everybody more closely and not just follow them. Townies should be more suspicious of others than scum, because townies are in the dark, while mafia know exactly who is on their side and who isn't.
Thats not trying to convince people to not question my actions. I think playing "Follow the leader" is a bad idea overall.

Like I said before, I'm not defending my actions because I believed they were in the interests of the town at the time, and have not hurt the town since.

Still waiting for you to answer my question.

[clammy]

And because i believe your question will result in unwanted and unwarranted consequences it isn't being answered.

I'm glad i was V/LA and got to watch that from the sidelines to pull you on it, smooth work convincing the town to follow you and then pull the big switch and say they shouldn't follow anyone.