Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[tris]

VC 1.04

Sashaddin (5):

u r a person 2 159, Ausuka 162, Lil Uzi Vert 173, bob3141 180, Garmr 181

RuiRui (4):

ChannelDelibird 174, skitter30 201, Egix96 233, Exilon 234

u r a person 2 (1):

Inferno390 79

Exilon (1):

cbynumber 24

bob3141 (1):

Sashaddin 151

Not Voting:

RuiRui

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-05-03 20:00:00)

[Garmr]

Uh I hadn't seen Garmr's latest post. Sorry

Nah it's fine nothing to be sorry about. Besides I don't always read my pedits either.

[tris]

I just realized that I forgot that I'm supposed to prod people.

Prodding Sashaddin and Lil Uzi Vert. cbynumber and RuiRui are getting close to being prodded.

[RuiRui]

Hi guys, I don't think that Sash is mafia. I do think cby is suspicious or at least needs more sorting, and I find it weird that people are jumping on me without also considering him

VOTE: cbynumber

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah, between 86 and 159 you posted 1 time and I’ve posted 8, most of which is multi posting. That’s a really fast reversal, and I don’t find it natrual.

seems pretty normal to me

I can see both sides here. Almost half of the posts made in that time from Inferno were substantial. However, not enough time has passed for Urap to speak with his conviction about his read on Inferno at the moment.

I’m also not sure if 184 comes from scum.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Exilon is still scum, btw. Why would he make an in depth post in 113 about how CDB's wagon is 'weird' only to go and case someone else immediately?

Because it was something I noticed and felt it was important to address. I also wanted to address Inferno390.
Where's the problem here exactly

The problem is you didn't address anything, aside from essentially giving a play by play on how the wagon formed.
I assume saying it's weird means you think it's scummy, right? so I would imagine that you would want to try and find scum off of it if you were town, but you don't follow up on it at all. Fair enough that you want to address inferno as well, but how does posting this help us catch scum if yo uarn't going to follow up or attempt to come to any conclusions from it?

It reads to me like you felt obliged to comment on the most recent wagon at the time.

I don’t like this knock on Egix. How was he going to properly find scum there? Proper VCA analysis requires a scum flip and at least three days worth of vote counts. 113 has a decent amount of fat to chew on. I don’t get how a majority of players can’t chip in and either help Egix form a conclusion there by helping him reach an understanding of what he’s making a note of, or come to a different conclusion themselves and present it.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hi guys, I don't think that Sash is mafia. I do think cby is suspicious or at least needs more sorting, and I find it weird that people are jumping on me without also considering him

VOTE: cbynumber

I really hate requesting this because I’m not a big fan of them but I think it can only be beneficial to the town at this point. Please post an in-depth reads list when you get the chance.

[Exilon]

I'm not egix

[Inferno390]

@Gamr:
Okay, let me make it clear:
I feel like you moved your vote to Sash ONLY because a wagon started forming there. By the time you voted each of the aforementioned players, you only had three interactions with Sash and 1 with CDB, none of which were indicative of your reads and definitely not worth the “would lynch myself” response they got on your read list. Your “reasons” for Sash aren’t actually stated until 228 and it looks like you were looking for ways to justify your Sash wagon. You’ve taken the two players you have pushed the most, called them scum, and then gave your reasons (in the case of Sash). For CDB, I missed the vote tag mistake and I apologize. But the point still stands that the “interactions” you said you had neither show your reads on those player nor deserve the 100% scumread you are giving to them.

[bob3141]

Hi guys, I don't think that Sash is mafia. I do think cby is suspicious or at least needs more sorting, and I find it weird that people are jumping on me without also considering him

VOTE: cbynumber

What are your reads on sash that make you beleive he is not mafia

Also what is that makes you feel that Cby is suspicous

[Sashaddin]

Um, hello. Sorry for the absence, I thought of quitting then I thought how I hate when someone quits on games I like, so here i am.

Having caught up, the very first thing that comes to my mind is that Garmr is very opportunistic and shrewd. He's the same that when were red together, he's playing within his scum range imo. He's my prime suspect.
Others are less obvious, I'll have to read a second or third time this evening to get a feel of the other players, probably when the kids and wife are sleeping.

But in the meantime:
VOTE: Garmr

[Sashaddin]

By the way, Garmr knows I'm not that good and not too experienced either, he probably saw an easy push in me right from the start. I'm not voting him him because he voted me personally, I'm voting him because he's been playing like he is on a weak player (which happens to be me).

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm not egix

Whoops

[Garmr]

@Gamr:
Okay, let me make it clear:
I feel like you moved your vote to Sash ONLY because a wagon started forming there. By the time you voted each of the aforementioned players, you only had three interactions with Sash and 1 with CDB, none of which were indicative of your reads and definitely not worth the “would lynch myself” response they got on your read list. Your “reasons” for Sash aren’t actually stated until 228 and it looks like you were looking for ways to justify your Sash wagon. You’ve taken the two players you have pushed the most, called them scum, and then gave your reasons (in the case of Sash). For CDB, I missed the vote tag mistake and I apologize.

But the point still stands

that the “interactions” you said you had neither show your reads on those player nor deserve the 100% scumread you are giving to them.

It really doesn't. When ever I here this still stands it seems like someone is trying to justify a debunked stance.

I gave my reasons after so I can keep the wagon going because I don't want it to die off since it's on a scum read. What I find odd is you never mentioning if my reasoning is legit or not Or try to argue with it but you try to discredit it because It came after my vote.

You know I can read other posts as well interaction, Maybe you can't get a solid read but I can. I always been noted for having a different scum rader good or bad. But on that not My read on CBD has weakened.

The words you used for me were Sheepy,opportunistic,tonally odd. We easily proved I wasn't sheepy, Opportunistic is a stretch since I had a scum read on sash before the wagon started and my other wagon wasn't picking up steam. Tonally odd isn't a scum tell on it's own, you also haven't even explained that one either.

And the points you shifted the goal post to now.

1.

You are basically arguing now that I didn't have a scum read because it I didn't interact enough, which is a bad point because you have to have a lot of assumptions negates that I can read an iso, different people find different things scummy and in different amounts.

2.

You are also arguing that giving reasoning after a vote is a scum thing to do. I didn't need to justify my scum read because no one asked me to. So what would the benefit of scum me be to do it a couple of post latter instead of the beginning when it would be less eye catching? I can give you the town reason, it's because I wanted to push the wagon forward because I wanted to keep steam going and at 5 am in the morning when I originally voted I was to tired then.

[u r a person 2]

Garmr is super town btw

[Inferno390]

@Gamr:
1. That is not what I am arguing. You are saying that it should be obviously clear that you were scumreading Sash by your interactions with the slot. The point I’m making shows that this is clearly not the case.
2. That’s not a town reason. If you think a person is actually scum, you shouldn’t need to find reasons to “push the wagon forward.” Your reads should justify the wagon. You shouldn’t be trying to find reasons for the wagon to exist. That alone suggests that you’re fabricating your reads. And what is the Town motivation for NOT giving your reasoning for reads with a vote?

And you have not shown to me at all that your vote on Sash wasn’t sheepy or opportunistic. As should be clear by me saying at the beginning of the post, “...ONLY because a a wagon started forming there.” Not to mention that your readlist is just you throwing out a readlist without any sort of game impact. You just said “oh this is town, this is town, this is scum.” That’s not a read on Sash. That’s just throwing words around. And it’s not helpful to Town.

[Inferno390]

Garmr is super town btw

This timing is highly, highly convenient. I would almost consider lynching based on this post alone.

[Inferno390]

Inferno can you guess who else made it to my scum list from the tone of my last few posts?

I do not like the passive-aggressive feel if this post. It feels like an attempt to throw me off.

[Garmr]

Would like to point out the scenario here.

Inferno390

I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy

Sash feels reachy

Finds sash reacy early on doesn't mention him latter.

I don’t like how 162 is used to throw shade in my direction while simultaneously pushing Sash.

What's odd about someone pushing 2 scum reads at the same time, he did it early? So that indicates the problem wasn't he was being scumread but being tied with sash.

Thx m8
=======================
I’m a little hesitant on the Sash wagon. It formed really fast, and I’m not entirely convinced it’s legit. I’m gonna have to go back and read it to see how it formed.

It's funny they were quite happy throwing shade at the begging at rvs but sash had done nothing to earn a town read. Through out their posts he doesn't even show a town read on sash but actively opposes the wagon.




So with that I think this is what happened. From these past events Inferno was looking to shut down the wagon but because he doesn't want to be tied up with sash he goes for the generic The wagon came in to fast and not legit sentiment that people with doubt seemed to have. He starts throwing shade on everyone (except bob which to me indicate buddying).

To me it seems like post 242 was meant to throw shade on me and for people not looked into to deeply. Which is why he included the

BUT

to fake some kind of doubt. If you noticed when he starts talking about me and with me, he drops any notion of doubt when arguing. The fact he mistakes where I placed my votes and what I talked about and when shows to me that it was quick Iso job with out much thought and written after being questioned on his throw away statement. Finally he tries to keep his point by changing the goal post instead of accepting the facts. This shows that he isn't concerned with finding out my alignment and just throwing shade. Also with this much effort to try and trying to cling to try make me look scummy you'd think town would throw a vote since he isn't pushing urap2 anymore.

The answer is simple he was chainsawing for Sash and didn't expect to have to explain his motive. Now his caught up in it.



VOTE: Inferno390

I'm up for either Inferno or Sash but I feel inferno deserves the pressure.

P:Edit still didn't vote me after struggling this hard to keep trying to throw shade.

[Inferno390]

TywinL, is that you?

[u r a person 2]

@garmr you're inferno read basically assumes that they are scum with sash, right?

Let's lynch sash first

[Garmr]

Um, hello. Sorry for the absence, I thought of quitting then I thought how I hate when someone quits on games I like, so here i am.

Having caught up, the very first thing that comes to my mind is that Garmr is very opportunistic and shrewd. He's the same that when were red together, he's playing within his scum range imo. He's my prime suspect.
Others are less obvious, I'll have to read a second or third time this evening to get a feel of the other players, probably when the kids and wife are sleeping.

But in the meantime:
VOTE: Garmr

By the way, Garmr knows I'm not that good and not too experienced either, he probably saw an easy push in me right from the start. I'm not voting him him because he voted me personally, I'm voting him because he's been playing like he is on a weak player (which happens to be me).

I think we only played once together because I don't remember you at all tbh.

Also It's been months since I played a game on site so I don't know if you are a weak player or not. So you could of improved, just being played a bad game. But I think that's a pretty scummy thing to do to try and portray yourself as weak to deflect criticism.

The fact you are acting like you know me like we played 100 games together makes me lean scum on you even more.

[Garmr]

@garmr you're inferno read basically assumes that they are scum with sash, right?

Let's lynch sash first

Pretty much but I still scum read inferno individually. Plus I'm so good my votes basically worth 2 jokes. The sash wagon will just get stale (which benefits scum) with this long amount of time left and I'd rather get both scum reads to be the two competing wagons.

I will jump back on sash If I think a lynch is going to go through or it will benefit the game state.

[Garmr]

@Gamr:
1. That is not what I am arguing. You are saying that it should be obviously clear that you were scumreading Sash by your interactions with the slot. The point I’m making shows that this is clearly not the case.
2. That’s not a town reason. If you think a person is actually scum, you shouldn’t need to find reasons to “push the wagon forward.” Your reads should justify the wagon. You shouldn’t be trying to find reasons for the wagon to exist. That alone suggests that you’re fabricating your reads. And what is the Town motivation for NOT giving your reasoning for reads with a vote?

And you have not shown to me at all that your vote on Sash wasn’t sheepy or opportunistic. As should be clear by me saying at the beginning of the post, “...ONLY because a a wagon started forming there.” Not to mention that your readlist is just you throwing out a readlist without any sort of game impact. You just said “oh this is town, this is town, this is scum.” That’s not a read on Sash. That’s just throwing words around. And it’s not helpful to Town.

1.My point was to show I had interest which is the case because your earlier point was they came out of no where and were sheepish. Now you just moved the goal post to it wasn't enough interaction. My earlier post has a answer for this if you bothered to acknowledge it. But acknowledging it would force you to drop it.

2. You are creating this narrative how I had to find reasons after I made the vote. The answers simple I had reasons before I voted but I didn't share them right away (Still got a few keeped away like post 16 knee jerk reaction and his response on bob when I questioned him, which my scum read appeared from. Thought people could easily put two and two together) Also you are ignoring the fact I said I opened up and said I found them scummy before. This leaves me open for someone to ask the question to why I found them scummy earlier(no one did.) So of course I had my reasons

what is the Town motivation for NOT giving your reasoning for reads with a vote?

That's not how it works lol You are saying that not giving a reason is scum motivated so the burden of proof is on you. You don't have a reason to think it's scum motivated because it a reason you pulled out your ass to throw shade. I can give you the reason I didn't through it was like 5 am in the morning and I hadn't sleeped all night I then gave my reasons when I had enough time to (After work).



Sheepy means to follow someone else's reason I didn't do that, That's what sheeping is. Also you haven't proven why it's opportunistic and scummy? You say oh it's because a wagon formed but that doesn't say why it's scummy or rule out all the over possibilities. My reasoning was because a scum read I announced earlier was gaining transition and I wanted more pressure on that slot. Can you think of a reason why I wouldn't move my vote as town?

Also I find it interesting they sheeped inferno yet refrained from calling them town ever. If you were to sheep a town read as a strategy day 1 you would think that you'd atleast call them town. After the point you sheeped your next comment about them is you wouldn't touch their debate with a ten foot pole. If you town read inferno still I would expect more of a comment.

Just remembered this even further proof you are partners. The reason he didn't call you town was because you are scum.This also make sense why you threw shade at me instead of others on the wagon. Because it links you with Sash.

[Ausuka]

I think that Sasha is scum, but I think it would be a mistake to lynch Inferno next. I kind of feel like Sasha has been trying to buddy Inferno, and if they were partners and Inferno was committed to not bussing he would vote Ruirui. What he's done instead makes himself look bad on a Sasha scumflip and doesn't really help save him, imo.