In post 274, Ausuka wrote:I think that Sasha is scum, but I think it would be a mistake to lynch Inferno next. I kind of feel like Sasha has been trying to buddy Inferno, and if they were partners and Inferno was committed to not bussing he would vote Ruirui. What he's done instead makes himself look bad on a Sasha scumflip and doesn't really help save him, imo.
Yeah, based on 90 and 145 I would say Inferno and Sasha are likely not s/s. I don't think that scum!Sasha would so blatantly associate himself with scum!Inferno like that.
"Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
In post 268, Garmr wrote:Would like to point out the scenario here.
Inferno390
In post 36, Inferno390 wrote:I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy
Sash feels reachy
Finds sash reacy early on doesn't mention him latter.
In post 178, Inferno390 wrote:I don’t like how 162 is used to throw shade in my direction while simultaneously pushing Sash.
What's odd about someone pushing 2 scum reads at the same time, he did it early? So that indicates the problem wasn't he was being scumread but being tied with sash.
In post 231, Inferno390 wrote:Thx m8
=======================
I’m a little hesitant on the Sash wagon. It formed really fast, and I’m not entirely convinced it’s legit. I’m gonna have to go back and read it to see how it formed.
It's funny they were quite happy throwing shade at the begging at rvs but sash had done nothing to earn a town read. Through out their posts he doesn't even show a town read on sash but actively opposes the wagon.
So with that I think this is what happened. From these past events Inferno was looking to shut down the wagon but because he doesn't want to be tied up with sash he goes for the generic The wagon came in to fast and not legit sentiment that people with doubt seemed to have. He starts throwing shade on everyone (except bob which to me indicate buddying).
To me it seems like post 242 was meant to throw shade on me and for people not looked into to deeply. Which is why he included the
BUT
to fake some kind of doubt. If you noticed when he starts talking about me and with me, he drops any notion of doubt when arguing. The fact he mistakes where I placed my votes and what I talked about and when shows to me that it was quick Iso job with out much thought and written after being questioned on his throw away statement. Finally he tries to keep his point by changing the goal post instead of accepting the facts. This shows that he isn't concerned with finding out my alignment and just throwing shade. Also with this much effort to try and trying to cling to try make me look scummy you'd think town would throw a vote since he isn't pushing urap2 anymore.
The answer is simple he was chainsawing for Sash and didn't expect to have to explain his motive. Now his caught up in it.
VOTE: Inferno390
I'm up for either Inferno or Sash but I feel inferno deserves the pressure.
P:Edit still didn't vote me after struggling this hard to keep trying to throw shade.
This post makes me laugh so much. It’s very clearly misrepresentation.
The first post is me generating discussion and tossing around words.
The second post had nothing to do with me being pushed. Because I wasn’t actually being pushed by the post I was referring to. It was just blatant side shade.
Third post, I never actually came out and said Sash is scum or town. I actually have him null. I think that there’s some sus wit the way the wagon was formed and am looking to see if there’s scum on it. But I would actually be okay with a Sash lynch.
You’re clearly flailing here, and it’s kind of sad, because my push on you wasn’t even that good.
"Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
And before anyone says “Why aren’t you voting Sash,” it’s because lynch scum first. And UR2 is definitely scum.
"Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
In post 268, Garmr wrote:Would like to point out the scenario here.
Inferno390
In post 36, Inferno390 wrote:I’m off-put by the tone here. Seems weird.
Skitter feels pushy
Sash feels reachy
Finds sash reacy early on doesn't mention him latter.
In post 178, Inferno390 wrote:I don’t like how 162 is used to throw shade in my direction while simultaneously pushing Sash.
What's odd about someone pushing 2 scum reads at the same time, he did it early? So that indicates the problem wasn't he was being scumread but being tied with sash.
In post 231, Inferno390 wrote:Thx m8
=======================
I’m a little hesitant on the Sash wagon. It formed really fast, and I’m not entirely convinced it’s legit. I’m gonna have to go back and read it to see how it formed.
It's funny they were quite happy throwing shade at the begging at rvs but sash had done nothing to earn a town read. Through out their posts he doesn't even show a town read on sash but actively opposes the wagon.
So with that I think this is what happened. From these past events Inferno was looking to shut down the wagon but because he doesn't want to be tied up with sash he goes for the generic The wagon came in to fast and not legit sentiment that people with doubt seemed to have. He starts throwing shade on everyone (except bob which to me indicate buddying).
To me it seems like post 242 was meant to throw shade on me and for people not looked into to deeply. Which is why he included the
BUT
to fake some kind of doubt. If you noticed when he starts talking about me and with me, he drops any notion of doubt when arguing. The fact he mistakes where I placed my votes and what I talked about and when shows to me that it was quick Iso job with out much thought and written after being questioned on his throw away statement. Finally he tries to keep his point by changing the goal post instead of accepting the facts. This shows that he isn't concerned with finding out my alignment and just throwing shade. Also with this much effort to try and trying to cling to try make me look scummy you'd think town would throw a vote since he isn't pushing urap2 anymore.
The answer is simple he was chainsawing for Sash and didn't expect to have to explain his motive. Now his caught up in it.
VOTE: Inferno390
I'm up for either Inferno or Sash but I feel inferno deserves the pressure.
P:Edit still didn't vote me after struggling this hard to keep trying to throw shade.
This post makes me laugh so much. It’s very clearly misrepresentation.
The first post is me generating discussion and tossing around words.
The second post had nothing to do with me being pushed. Because I wasn’t actually being pushed by the post I was referring to. It was just blatant side shade.
Third post, I never actually came out and said Sash is scum or town. I actually have him null. I think that there’s some sus wit the way the wagon was formed and am looking to see if there’s scum on it. But I would actually be okay with a Sash lynch.
You’re clearly flailing here, and it’s kind of sad, because my push on you wasn’t even that good.
Ironic you call this laughable when you were so desperate before to cling to that pathetic misrep.
First post- Doesn't address my point so what if you are tossing around words.
2nd post-weak defence it wasn't a push just shade . You still looked more concern being tied to sash.
3rd post-Yeah that;s the entire fucking point you didn't call sash town or scum just threw shade.
What's sad is your clearly flailing here by posturing up, because this isn't even the best bit of my push. Maybe once you become a better player you'll be able to shake me off in the future.
What makes me facepalm is you are acting smug when you just admitted your entire case was bad. It's like indirectly admitting that your not town by clinging onto something you know was bad and thrown together. You even stopped trying to defend your actions!
It shows you aren't interested in catching scum and just want to throw shade.
I went over isos, I read mostly 1vs1 noise and me being the wagon bait du jour. The ones I find the most honest are Egix, Exilon, and Inferno. Skitter goes back to null, she's making my head spin. I find URAP less trustworthy(such as 283). I keep my vote on my vanity vote on Garmr for the moment though.
none of the things you've described here feel scummy to me really
==
hey u2 it's the weekend, can we talk about how you feel weird now?
or at least answer the points i left in my last post for you?
==
In post 235, Garmr wrote:1-scum have day chat (noticed that due to what I thought excellion gamble was)
2-No one has calling sash town
3-The generic response I don't know if I want to jump on the wagon. With no reason not to scum read sash or town read them.
4-Been ages with out a meaningful post
5-wagon starts to gain steam out of no where.
6-A lot of my town reads are on sash wagon including confirmed town and myself.
May be a bit premature but with all these points combined I think scum stayed silent on the sash wagon to see if it would dissolve naturally and rui rui was their planned counterwagon in their day chat.
a) wrt point 2: that's fallacious; a lack of being townie (or being called townie) != being scummy.
their reaction was bad and ate-y, sure, but i don't know that's inherently scummy. and nothing you cited earlier as a reason to scumread him has been particularly compelling to me. and none of the things you've listed here describe scummy play from him either really, so much as a describing a gamestate that you think points to sash!scum. i don't particularly agree with this analysis
b) who exactly are sash's partners that are pushing the planned counterwagon of rui?
good point actually, i'm not sure that scum says this
also garmr + exilon prob not scum together
==
In post 253, RuiRui wrote:Hi guys, I don't think that Sash is mafia. I do think cby is suspicious or at least needs more sorting, and I find it weird that people are jumping on me without also considering him
VOTE: cbynumber
why should people consider him in particular before jumping on you?
also why is he suspicious?
(also going to point out that i'm on you and also have given a read on him so)
==
In post 260, Sashaddin wrote:Um, hello. Sorry for the absence, I thought of quitting then I thought how I hate when someone quits on games I like, so here i am.
has town!you ever gotten this worked up about being wagoned before?
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
hey u2 it's the weekend, can we talk about how you feel weird now?
or at least answer the points i left in my last post for you?
Sure you can but I thought I answered you and you acknowledged it. But how do I feel weird for you (also it's not my weekend I work hospitality so i'm always juggling a saturday or sunday.)
In post 235, Garmr wrote:1-scum have day chat (noticed that due to what I thought excellion gamble was)
2-No one has calling sash town
3-The generic response I don't know if I want to jump on the wagon. With no reason not to scum read sash or town read them.
4-Been ages with out a meaningful post
5-wagon starts to gain steam out of no where.
6-A lot of my town reads are on sash wagon including confirmed town and myself.
May be a bit premature but with all these points combined I think scum stayed silent on the sash wagon to see if it would dissolve naturally and rui rui was their planned counterwagon in their day chat.
a) wrt point 2: that's fallacious; a lack of being townie (or being called townie) != being scummy.
their reaction was bad and ate-y, sure, but i don't know that's inherently scummy. and nothing you cited earlier as a reason to scumread him has been particularly compelling to me. and none of the things you've listed here describe scummy play from him either really, so much as a describing a gamestate that you think points to sash!scum. i don't particularly agree with this analysis
b) who exactly are sash's partners that are pushing the planned counterwagon of rui?
On a individual player yes 2 may be considered but when you get a whole group that shows a pattern. But yes this is a game state argument which has my own veiws factored in.
hmm I thought at the time CDB and egix which were my scum reads at the time (2 scum reads jump on the counter wagon of another scum read kinda leaves a impression.) But i'm not as sure on CDB anymore. So Sash,inferno,(egix or cbd being my stabs at the third scum).
it's not scum-indicative to sheep someone without explicitly calling them town
nor is not being obvious/explicit about planning on sheeping day1
nor is pushing two scumreads that nobody else are pushing
==
In post 286, Garmr wrote:On a individual player yes 2 may be considered but when you get a whole group that shows a pattern. But yes this is a game state argument which has my own veiws factored in.
hmm I thought at the time CDB and egix which were my scum reads at the time (2 scum reads jump on the counter wagon of another scum read kinda leaves a impression.) But i'm not as sure on CDB anymore. So Sash,inferno,(egix or cbd being my stabs at the third scum).
i understand that you're saying that you see a pattern emerging wrt sash's position in the gamestate.
for me tho i don't really read sash's play as being particularly scummy rn, and i dont' find a gamestate read particularly compelling when it doesn't really correlate with my actual reads on people.
also i'm voting rui rn btw
i was kinda checking if you had someone particular in mind wrt the rui wagon or if you were just like generically shading the whole thing; i don't think you were doing that.
are your reads often dependant on associatives?
==
In post 286, Garmr wrote:Sure you can but I thought I answered you and you acknowledged it. But how do I feel weird for you (also it's not my weekend I work hospitality so i'm always juggling a saturday or sunday.)
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
it's not scum-indicative to sheep someone without explicitly calling them town
nor is not being obvious/explicit about planning on sheeping day1
nor is pushing two scumreads that nobody else are pushing
Yeah this is the problem. These things are puzzles pieces Lets put them togther.
Person is under pressure to come up with a excuse makes the "I was sheeping town reads." Since their actions show no signs of sheeping town reads in fact you look for them saying they were going to do it you can't find it. You find evidence of the opposite. So by adding all those points you can conclude they were lying about it and it was a rushed excused.
==
In post 286, Garmr wrote:On a individual player yes 2 may be considered but when you get a whole group that shows a pattern. But yes this is a game state argument which has my own veiws factored in.
hmm I thought at the time CDB and egix which were my scum reads at the time (2 scum reads jump on the counter wagon of another scum read kinda leaves a impression.) But i'm not as sure on CDB anymore. So Sash,inferno,(egix or cbd being my stabs at the third scum).
i understand that you're saying that you see a pattern emerging wrt sash's position in the gamestate.
for me tho i don't really read sash's play as being particularly scummy rn, and i dont' find a gamestate read particularly compelling when it doesn't really correlate with my actual reads on people.
also i'm voting rui rn btw
i was kinda checking if you had someone particular in mind wrt the rui wagon or if you were just like generically shading the whole thing; i don't think you were doing that.
That's understandable with 4 people on the wagon at least 2 have to be town if sash is scum.
Not really but when I have them I point them out. Through I actually outed masons before this way twice I don't think hat's the case this time.
==
In post 286, Garmr wrote:Sure you can but I thought I answered you and you acknowledged it. But how do I feel weird for you (also it's not my weekend I work hospitality so i'm always juggling a saturday or sunday.)
In post 285, skitter30 wrote:has town!you ever gotten this worked up about being wagoned before?
Very honestly no, this was atypical of myself. It's just that I don't seem to have that kind of problems in minis, only in larges. Plus, I had another game going on that wasn't too pleasant either. And some non-mafia related problems, to think of it. Maybe now I can see better in this one since my two previous things are gone.
In post 288, Garmr wrote:Person is under pressure to come up with a excuse makes the "I was sheeping town reads." Since their actions show no signs of sheeping town reads in fact you look for them saying they were going to do it you can't find it. You find evidence of the opposite. So by adding all those points you can conclude they were lying about it and it was a rushed excused.
As long as Sasha is scum here (which I believe he is) we should be looking at scum on the RuiRui wagon. If he's town that suggests a high concentration of scum on the Sasha wagon. Luv is an IC here of course and therefore cannot be scum so the pool of votes we'd be looking at is {u r a person 2, ausuka, bob, garmr}. Knowing that I'm town I personally can condense that to {ur2, bob, garmr}
Even so I believe Sasha is scum here and therefore would rather spend time looking at the wagon on ruirui instead. Egix and Exilon are the most suspicious here because they jumped on towards the end of the wagon, making it more likely that the reason for their choice was to defend Sasha. Probably cdb is town because he feels genuine here and although I know that skitter is dangerous as scum she hasn't triggered any red flags yet other than the early game thing which I now think was just a misunderstanding.
Either way, the reasoning for my beliefs based on the wagons, lies in how the Sasha wagon has stalled. Realistically if Sasha is town scum are going to want to jump on that because there's been high willingness shown to lynch him, more so than anything else.
If Sasha is scum, I'd actually also expect scum to bus Sasha here since the wagon gained a lot of momentum and I think most scumteams wouldn't want to get caught out on defending their scumbuddy from a lynch d1.
However obviously neither of these things has happened as Sasha wagon has stalled and no new votes are coming through. If Sasha is town this suggests that scum are already on the wagon; the reason scum can't jump on Sasha and push him further is because they're already there. This happened in the last Mini Normal I played actually; all three scum jumped on a budding wagon at the beginning and it stalled, so I don't want to discount the Sasha!town possibility. I don't think all 3 scum would necessarily need to be on the Sasha wagon for this purpose, though; it's possible also that only 2 are on the wagon, and the other one is just really scared by the prospect of working with their scumbuddies and all being on the d1 mislynch, and there's also a scum in the vanity voters or voting Ruirui if she's town.
Occam's razor though is that Sasha is just scum here and the reason that his wagon has stalled in the way that it has is that his scumbuddies are really anti-bus and are hoping to get another wagon through, namely RuiRui. I actually find it really hard to imagine a scumteam with both Sasha and a vanity voter; you're showing a hard aversion to bussing, and yet you're not going to push the counterwagon, which has a high chance of just letting the lynch happen and making you look much worse than you would if you'd have voted Sasha? So I'd imagine that if Sasha is scum all his partners would probs be in {cdb, skitter, exilon, egix} and we have a pretty high chance of winning the game from here if we follow that.
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
Have you considered that it stalled because the deadline for the day isn't over and some of us would like to have more information? Seems like you're relying on some incorrect assumptions here.
In fact, the only reason I'm not voting Sash is because the day isn't over and if I had voted for Sash I would have been hammering him (at least when I looked at the votecount and considered it). And I won't change it now because pressure = information and I like that.
However and for now let it be known that I find Sash to scummier than RuiRui and would rather lynch Sash than RuiRui.
"Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
In post 285, skitter30 wrote:has town!you ever gotten this worked up about being wagoned before?
Very honestly no, this was atypical of myself. It's just that I don't seem to have that kind of problems in minis, only in larges. Plus, I had another game going on that wasn't too pleasant either. And some non-mafia related problems, to think of it. Maybe now I can see better in this one since my two previous things are gone.
I am always reluctant to beleive when a person make an appeal to emtion post like you did. As when i first started playign some did make a post exactly like yours. Were he said he to felt like quiting mafia, resulting in people backing off him only for him to flip mafia and reveal it was just a ruse.
Your vote garmr even looks reactionary. Although he featured in your post 146. Not one single one of your statements had any reasoning to them and could easily of been picked out of thin air by scum player wanting to be seen to be contributing. So what was teh reason behind each of the reads in your post viewtopic.php?p=10901772#p10901772 ?
To me at the moment your just looking like scum trying to attack the lead player on his lynch inorder to avoid the rest of the town joining in. On the off chance you are town, who do you think is scum and why?
I showed my work all the way back in 79.
Though if you want me to ISO you again I’d be more than happy to.
"Do I have permission to....refute some of the bs that Inferno just spewed out?"--TywinL
“Does anyone know if Inferno is prone to going of on huge tangents of twisted logic regarding basically alignment neutral posting? Asking for a friend ...”—MagnaofIllusion
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
In post 285, skitter30 wrote:has town!you ever gotten this worked up about being wagoned before?
Very honestly no, this was atypical of myself. It's just that I don't seem to have that kind of problems in minis, only in larges. Plus, I had another game going on that wasn't too pleasant either. And some non-mafia related problems, to think of it. Maybe now I can see better in this one since my two previous things are gone.
Ok, the next question is have u ever reacted this way as scum?
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
. You still looked more concern being tied to sash.
