Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[Sashaddin]

I thinj garmr's opening post probbaly(?) doesnt come from scum

I don't like the reasoning of the sentence and the spelling errors that come with it.
VOTE: Skitter30

[Sashaddin]

Can I ask what's the reasoning and why you find it scummy?

I think Skitter knows a lot more than us if he's able and willing to validate a seemingly pseudo-random list. I voted him, not you Garmr.
By the way, the spelling errors comment was totally not serious. I forgot to insert a smiley at the end.

[Sashaddin]

In other words, this is caught scum. Help me with pressure guys.

I don't have much time tonight, Skitter looks town and this analysis was great. I'll follow...
UNVOTE: Skitter
VOTE: Urap2

[Sashaddin]

Can you explain this further please? Like, what about Inferno's analysis is great? I'm not seeing your pov here.

The game started hard and fast. My vote on Skitter was pure RVS but I sensed town in her, so I wanted to unvote and settle elsewhere.
Of all the posts I found that far, this was the post that was telling me the most. I was feeling what was being said real good: the yikes 40 , the convenient 76, the free shade on 42... since we are early I decided not to be inactive and sheep a bit. I know taking someone else's reasoning is not the best move, but it's a start. People tell me I'm inactive Day 1 so I try to get away from that image now.

[Sashaddin]

- I'm not touching the Inferno-Exilon feud with a ten-foot pole for now.
- Garmr and I were scum partners once, he hasn't done much but I'm getting the same vibe. I'm watching this slot.
- ChannelDelibird is surprisingly coming very townie to me. I saw a couple of people voting him while skimming the thread, but after reading his ISO I couldn't tell why. Townlean for me.
- Skitter seems town.
- Bob seems nervous scum, like post 97 below
The others don't have enough posts or impact on the game yet.

[Sashaddin]

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af

but

I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

Very much looks like an attempt to pretend to defend soemone

but

at the same time keep using the"

but .....

"

As well as trying to emphasize possible scummy actions

but

raising this in a pretend defense. So If i got lynched and untimatly revealed as town you could simply say you dint think i was scum and could hold no blame

____

I think you are trying hard on this one, throwing shade on URAP2. Your argument made no sense too, you are using the very same word you are suspicious of.

VOTE: Bob3141

[Sashaddin]

So in your opinion hypocrisy is a scummy trait? Bob is town in my book.

Hypocrisy should come from scum, yes. As for my read, it's still early game I do with what I see. Later in the game I might not have considered that. Reading is hard Day 1.

[Sashaddin]

I think I'm going to quit playing Mafia, I always end up being lynched in the first days and that doesn't help town at all.

[Sashaddin]

You did the same thing that made me suspicous of bird but even more so. You vote for U person and only state you agree with skitter. Come across very much like scum trying to get bandwagon going but trying to avoid any responsibility if the player is revealsed as town. By saying you think x is town and you agree with him to lynch y.

Yeah, it's called sheeping. When I said out lout I wanted to get into larges from minis, the hint I got was 'try to find someone who's town and sheep him for the first days'. Sad to see I got bad advice.
Plus, I really was in a hurry but wanted to participate in anyways. Big mistake from hindsight.

[Sashaddin]

Um, hello. Sorry for the absence, I thought of quitting then I thought how I hate when someone quits on games I like, so here i am.

Having caught up, the very first thing that comes to my mind is that Garmr is very opportunistic and shrewd. He's the same that when were red together, he's playing within his scum range imo. He's my prime suspect.
Others are less obvious, I'll have to read a second or third time this evening to get a feel of the other players, probably when the kids and wife are sleeping.

But in the meantime:
VOTE: Garmr

[Sashaddin]

By the way, Garmr knows I'm not that good and not too experienced either, he probably saw an easy push in me right from the start. I'm not voting him him because he voted me personally, I'm voting him because he's been playing like he is on a weak player (which happens to be me).

[Sashaddin]

I went over isos, I read mostly 1vs1 noise and me being the wagon bait du jour. The ones I find the most honest are Egix, Exilon, and Inferno. Skitter goes back to null, she's making my head spin. I find URAP less trustworthy(such as 283). I keep my vote on my vanity vote on Garmr for the moment though.

[Sashaddin]

has town!you ever gotten this worked up about being wagoned before?

Very honestly no, this was atypical of myself. It's just that I don't seem to have that kind of problems in minis, only in larges. Plus, I had another game going on that wasn't too pleasant either. And some non-mafia related problems, to think of it. Maybe now I can see better in this one since my two previous things are gone.

[Sashaddin]

Person is under pressure to come up with a excuse makes the "I was sheeping town reads." Since their actions show no signs of sheeping town reads in fact you look for them saying they were going to do it you can't find it. You find evidence of the opposite. So by adding all those points you can conclude they were lying about it and it was a rushed excused.

Is this still about me in 90?

[Sashaddin]

has town!you ever gotten this worked up about being wagoned before?

Very honestly no, this was atypical of myself. It's just that I don't seem to have that kind of problems in minis, only in larges. Plus, I had another game going on that wasn't too pleasant either. And some non-mafia related problems, to think of it. Maybe now I can see better in this one since my two previous things are gone.

I am always reluctant to beleive when a person make an appeal to emtion post like you did. As when i first started playign some did make a post exactly like yours. Were he said he to felt like quiting mafia, resulting in people backing off him only for him to flip mafia and reveal it was just a ruse.


Your vote garmr even looks reactionary. Although he featured in your post 146. Not one single one of your statements had any reasoning to them and could easily of been picked out of thin air by scum player wanting to be seen to be contributing. So what was teh reason behind each of the reads in your post viewtopic.php?p=10901772#p10901772 ?


To me at the moment your just looking like scum trying to attack the lead player on his lynch inorder to avoid the rest of the town joining in. On the off chance you are town, who do you think is scum and why?

I didn't do an appeal to emotion consciously I guess, I was venting and telling how I feel. I sometimes still think I'll quit after I'm done here. I suck and I don't help my team much.

As for my reads":

- I'm not touching the Inferno-Exilon feud with a ten-foot pole for now.
The exchange was too heated for me to get a word in. I don't like to go in a war zone

- Garmr and I were scum partners once, he hasn't done much but I'm getting the same vibe. I'm watching this slot.
I was expressing my feelings that so far I was scumreading him slightly because of little things he said said and did. Though as he said himself, we only played once together; but knowing he was scum from the start gave me the chance to pick up on things that I wanted to try myself.

- ChannelDelibird is surprisingly coming very townie to me. I saw a couple of people voting him while skimming the thread, but after reading his ISO I couldn't tell why. Townlean for me.
I still don't find anything scummy...

- Skitter seems town.
She made good points that I liked I guess. My mind is failing me a bit on this one.

- Bob seems nervous scum, like post 97 below
I tried to find a bad post because I was mostly townreading everyone, I found that one. Having more time I reread it, and think I had misunderstood the content in the first place.

-The others don't have enough posts or impact on the game yet.
Not enough posts or action, I didn't waste time on them.

[Sashaddin]

This urap2 / Inferno390 exchange is so TvT I can't even
u guys pls

I couldn't follow the logic in that exchange. I mean no one flipped yet and we're already into associatives?

[Sashaddin]

I sometimes still think I'll quit after I'm done here. I suck and I don't help my team much.

I decided to stay and play in newbies for a while. Might get me better faster. Anyone has another hint?

[Sashaddin]

Sash, you’re at L-1 with 4 days left. It’s time for you to claim.

Vanilla Townie

[Sashaddin]

sash, i don't think you're nearly as bad as you're making yourself out to be?
or, at least, i'm not entirely understanding why you're so defeatist here?

Bipolar type A in a down phase having a bad streak at this game. I'm usually more cheerful and happy. I always get scumread first on large games, that's why I assumed I was doing something wrong.

[Sashaddin]

Here my ideas in case I go:

Town:

Inferno
Ruirui
ChanelDelibird
Skitter


Scum:

Bob
Garmr (not that sure anymore though)
URAP2

[Sashaddin]

I’m confirmed town. Why do you not have an opinion on me voting for you?

I don't know how your opinion could effect the game differently than other players. If you want to explain please?

[Sashaddin]

I think that Sasha is scum, but I think it would be a mistake to lynch Inferno next. I kind of feel like Sasha has been trying to buddy Inferno, and if they were partners and Inferno was committed to not bussing he would vote Ruirui. What he's done instead makes himself look bad on a Sasha scumflip and doesn't really help save him, imo.

@ LilUzi: Well I like the effort he made in associating the conclusion from a scumflip, this gains town points to me. I like feeling something putting his mind to it.

He's wrong about me buddying anyone this game though.

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: URAP2

[Sashaddin]

I’m confirmed town. Why do you not have an opinion on me voting for you?

I don't know how your opinion could effect the game differently than other players. If you want to explain please?

An Announcement:

Lil Uzi Vert is

aligned with town

I know, but HOW does it change something?

[Sashaddin]

Uzi (or is it LUV?) asks: why don't you have an opinion on my vote?
sash answers: your opinion doesn't affect the game any differently than any other player (???? this isn't a response to the question whatsoever)

I meant that I didn't know how his opinion of me should affect the game differently than how the other players see me. It was not affirmative, it was interrogative.
Please walk through it with baby steps, I don't get how this comftown-from-the-start affects this game.

[Sashaddin]

He hasn't got many stated reads, but of those stated reads his Urap read (and vote) seems to be entirely based on sheeping some really pretty uninteresting 'analysis' from Inferno very early, and his RuiRui townread came out of nowhere and has NEVER been explained.

I don't see myself typing a whole wall of text being on the eve of a lynch, my wife and kids come before this. But I read many isos, I just don't feel like doing a whole book report on them. English is my second language and I don't have lightning fingers when typing... It can take time to make a post for me.
When I began playing, it was from newbies and I kept a lot of written notes in a Excel file. But with many players I can't follow this way anymore. So I rely on tone, pushes, wagons.... I try to get reads but I never saw anyone compulsed to explain them all. I know naked voting sounds scummy but sometimes that's all the time you've got.

[Sashaddin]

About Ruirui, I know there isn' t much, but

I like to be read with a strong opinion, scumread or townread doesn't matter
They seem to be reluctant at my lynch, another strong feeling
I like 188 and 484

P.Edit: Yay, a cross-post

[Sashaddin]

He asked you why you hadn't voiced your opinion on his vote.

Your answer addressed the topic, his opinion.

Ah, we're getting somewhere I think. I didn't care about the opinion of LUV because I don't understand how is opinion is affecting the game differently. That's why I didn't voice my opinion on his vote. Because I can't see what difference it makes, so it didn't come to my mind.

[Sashaddin]

Anyway, in regards to the bolded quoted text, I don't really know what type of answer you're looking for? Besides what's been mentioned, anyway.

I don't know how someone we know is green can have more importance than anyone, Day 1 especially, since no one has had time to use thier powers yet.

[Sashaddin]

hope ur down phase ends soon

Thanks for the compassion! Usually it's weeks, I should be around halfway I guess. It affects a whole lot more than my mafia game
Medication helps a whole lot though.

[Sashaddin]

taking advantage of my confirmed innocence as much as possible helps town immensely

These words express exactly my incomprehension. How being in relation with a comfirmed green Day 1 helps town?

I didn't do it because I don't see HOW this thing is supposed to work.

[Sashaddin]

@sasha: i don't think you're necessarily playing badly? if you want to get better at playing, something you could is reading old games, and looking at what scum do. you can learn how scum behave and when you're scum you can try and avoid those kinds of behaviours. at least that's what i do.

Thanks for the idea. I like the idea of seeing it from the scumside. That's what I miss I guess, I only had 2 scum roles out of like 12 games, one of those two being my first game ever. I didn't learn much needless to say.
Do you have some classics to suggest?

[Sashaddin]

1 sash is going to flip scum.

No, I'm not going to... I'm a vt.

[Sashaddin]

So whats your reasoning behind each of your reads

Skitter and Inferno: Inquisitive, speak to everyone, try to understaand the game beyond the first level. Curious and reflexive. Two similar styles that inspires me town confidence.
Delibird: His shorts sentences made more sense to me when read with a town perspective than a scum one. It's something I like to do with that kind of posting. But this is from instinct, not rationale.

URAP2: Tunnels me from the start of the game and immediately challenges most of who would townread me. I feel he's scum trying to get a townie out to get a better odd for a PR nightkill. He hasn't given me an inch.
Bob: Apart from that post I picked on you've been pretty clean. Sorry. Dunno why I still had you red.
Garmr: My early feeling of a hungry werewolf has dulled. He's definitely hungry if he's town though. Maybe a tiny scumlean? He was good at scum when I played with him... so it seems I can't rule this possibility out

[Sashaddin]

- Bob seems nervous scum, like post 97 below
I tried to find a bad post because I was mostly townreading everyone, I found that one. Having more time I reread it, and think I had misunderstood the content in the first place.

Also I find it a bit odd that you say you still think Im scum. Even though you tried to back pedal from your original vote on me. When you replied to my requstion regarding the reasoning behind your reads at teh start of the game. Where you tried to claim you missunderstood my post that you used as pretext to vote for me. With your bais for you vote being rather reachy

That what happened, didn't rememer posting this. Yes, I was reachy...

[Sashaddin]

that would diminish from stronger arguments, like how sash's recent posts are scummy

Scummy by Nature is my garage cover-up band.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idx3GSL2KWs

[Sashaddin]

I was responding to this by Skitter

also i think his utter confusion as to why luv's reads should have more ~weight~ is kinda townie (or, well, not weight exactly, but should be given more credence since we *know* he's town); i don't think that scum really forget the ~importance~ of an ic or are like obvlivious to that sort of thing or like try to shade him that way

Which was referencing the following posts. And actually, I only really think the initial response could be seen as townie. By the end when Sash understands the question and still falls back to the same line, I become pretty meh on the whole thing. But like I said, I don't think this interaction is best analyzed when trying to determine their alignment.

Spoiler:

I’m confirmed town. Why do you not have an opinion on me voting for you?

I don't know how your opinion could effect the game differently than other players. If you want to explain please?

I’m confirmed town. Why do you not have an opinion on me voting for you?

I don't know how your opinion could effect the game differently than other players. If you want to explain please?

An Announcement:

Lil Uzi Vert is

aligned with town

I know, but HOW does it change something?

Uzi (or is it LUV?) asks: why don't you have an opinion on my vote?
sash answers: your opinion doesn't affect the game any differently than any other player (???? this isn't a response to the question whatsoever)

I meant that I didn't know how his opinion of me should affect the game differently than how the other players see me. It was not affirmative, it was interrogative.
Please walk through it with baby steps, I don't get how this comftown-from-the-start affects this game.

He asked you why you hadn't voiced your opinion on his vote.

Your answer addressed the topic, his opinion.

Ah, we're getting somewhere I think. I didn't care about the opinion of LUV because I don't understand how is opinion is affecting the game differently. That's why I didn't voice my opinion on his vote. Because I can't see what difference it makes, so it didn't come to my mind.

URAP2, when I flip green, you'll see that my incomprehension was genuine. And I think so far no one has explained it to me yet. Chanel tried by asking me a question but there was no follow-up. So I STILL don't know why someone conf'ed green reads are more valuable/important/special/whatever than a regular Joe's. I don't stop at being told, I wanna know

why

and

how

... pretty please with whipped cream and a cherry on top?

[Sashaddin]

UNVOTE: Bob3141
Forgot my vote was here.

[Sashaddin]

Sigh
UNVOTE: URAP2

[Sashaddin]

but actually if sash is scum, skitter might actually be scum here because I don't see it being you and I'd be surprised if my wagon was clean there either

If I'm scum Skitter definitely is compromising herself by defending me so hard. What's the reverse of tunneling?
This should be an element of thought... Would a scum go forward and defend with such vigor a scum lynch on the first day?

[Sashaddin]

@URAP2 and Sash

Just want to straighten this out you guys think rui rui is scum if sash is town right?

I think it's pretty much the opposite. A scum Rui rui has had all day to jump on the sash wagon if sash was town. I also doubt a scum rui would actively oppose the counter wagon to their wagon. They haven't relaly done much but they could of saved their own skin earlier and the sash lynch would of gone through.

So that leaves them in two circumstances town that actually think sash is town or scum with sash and not willing to bus for reasons.


So I don't understand why Rui rui is the counter wagon if you think sash is town?

No, I think both Ruirui and I are town. Your explanation seems accurate.
So by my reasoning:
Skitter and Ruirui are solid town to me, because of Garmer'spost and my previous one.

[Sashaddin]

Information wise confirmed greens aren't any different it's more other peoples reactions to them which makes them different and how you as a individual handle them.

Thanks, dude!

[Sashaddin]

Sigh
UNVOTE: URAP2

sigh

(Hushed voice) But he made two really townie posts lately...

[Sashaddin]

RuiRui > Sash > Gamble

Gamble's initial burst of activity then failure to finish catching up sucks but is not particularly more likely to be from scum than town - merely very mildly. Would rather get info on a more prominent wagon. Would rather lynch likely scum over both

So to you I'm more probable than Gamble to be scum?

[Sashaddin]

You: You don't seem to have much you're passionate about pushing on in terms of a scum lynch (which I would expect to see from town) but you also seem like a relatively unusual player which makes that harder to judge. The 'I'm awful, I'm clearly going to get lynched' is a weird grey area that feels like it should be indicative but is hard to pin down.

I'm not pushy naturally, this game being worse than average. I was also down from getting scumread without any reason in my other game as well. But you are right on both points. Oh, and people say I'm awkward.

[Sashaddin]

But I'll bite on the scenario

Say if I'm wrong Sash

Well on my wagon I suspected at some point everyone but LUV and Ausuka. But if you trust your reads, well yeah, it could be a town wagon.
Personally, I'm afraid my scum list has run dry with the extinction of Bob and URAP2 . The wolves are well hidden... Are we 10/3 or 9/4 in this format usually?

[Sashaddin]

It's not going to pick up?

But I'll bite on the scenario

Say if I'm wrong Sash

I retroactively undetoood the question.
I didn't look at the wagon before unvoting, I was isoing (and had Bob's open too, and my oldest came at that moment so I screwed up) when I unvoted.

[Sashaddin]

If I'm scum Skitter definitely is compromising herself by defending me so hard. What's the reverse of tunneling?

If I'm scum

scum!skitter

definitely would be compromising herself.
What I meant.

[Sashaddin]

If I'm scum Skitter definitely is compromising herself by defending me so hard. What's the reverse of tunneling?

If I'm scum

scum!skitter

definitely would be compromising herself.
What I meant.

I eventually understood that the assumed hypothesis was scum!Skitter.

I want to bring up the original post though. I may be reading too much into it but there's something here that I feel is deeply off and even though I may be reading too much into it I have to be attentive:

but actually if sash is scum, skitter might actually be scum here because I don't see it being you and I'd be surprised if my wagon was clean there either

If I'm scum Skitter definitely is compromising herself by defending me so hard. What's the reverse of tunneling?
This should be an element of thought... Would a scum go forward and defend with such vigor a scum lynch on the first day?

1. is she really defending that hard? // 2. why not? If scum!skitter, she would try to keep up appearances and be consistent. It wouldn't surprise me too much. //
3. aaaaa this is what has been tickling my spider senses!
Yes scum would most definitely be defending a scum lynch on the first day! Why would they shoot themselves in the foot by not trying?!

1. From my point of view, yes. Maybe not that hard but I felt it was often.
2. It's very possible she could be fooling me. I don't scumread well in general. She will get towncred when I flip green, right ?
3. If I were scum I would assume my partners would stay the hell away from me after this bad start of mine. Your option keeps a chance to go right, mine is more all-in!

[Sashaddin]

which ones?

592, 632 and 635
You tell me if they are town to you...

[Sashaddin]

So do we lynch Sash for the gamesolving or Rui on the bet she’s scum?
Because I’m not totally sold on a scum!Rui, though I can see where it’s coming from, and that’s way more than what I get from Sash
But if Rui flips town, I feel like we lose a lot of info from the Sash lynch and I’m not confident enough to say for certainty that we risk it.

If I make it to Day 2 and Ruirui flips town, I'll probably be the Day 2 lynch with a lot less opposition. I'm not going away...

[Sashaddin]

I know I'm green. From my pov, voting Ruirui makes some sense strategically then. However, I don't see much scum in her 11 posts. What's the best option for me here?

[Sashaddin]

To the point you raised here, Garmr...

I think it's pretty much the opposite. A scum Rui rui has had all day to jump on the sash wagon if sash was town.

...I do think that this is a decent argument, although I would note that if RuiRui has gone to ground as scum then she needs to be careful about what she reappears to do. If she skirts by then tries to drop a vote on Sash, and Sash flips town, I think that looks really really bad for RuiRui, and she may have been conscious of this, hoping that we would do that part of the job for her.

She has to be here to hammer me... she had all day but she wasn't here!

[Sashaddin]

Sasha do you like townread ruirui or just don't sr her?

I was townreading early on, but she moved to null when she stopped the real posting.

[Sashaddin]

Tell who else atm you think is scum or think may be scum

My list is empty! Except maybe Garmr., but not sure.. I am not good at scumreading early, I get better in the later days when more flips are done.

[Sashaddin]

if you're town, voting ruirui is way more plus town than getting lynched.

All right, but I think she's

L-1

.
Intent to hammer!

[Sashaddin]

Brb in 30 minutes, this is fun!

[Sashaddin]

@Sash you can give it a hot minute before hammering in case they are around to claim.

10 hours til deadline, so maybe as late as you are comfortably sure you can come back to hammer.

I'm comfortable lynching this sans claim over sash, if it comes down to it, though

I'll be back for a hammer later, I won't let the day pass without a lynch, his or mine. Well, his preferably since I'm having a lot of fun here lately.

[Sashaddin]

I'd like a vote count if possible, just to be sure where we are at.

[Sashaddin]

That's what I thought but wasn't that sure.

[Sashaddin]

Tell who else atm you think is scum or think may be scum

My list is empty! Except maybe Garmr., but not sure.. I am not good at scumreading early, I get better in the later days when more flips are done.

I thought about it, and there might be scums getting off my wagon and getting on Ruirui since I already claimed and Ruirui didn't. Would that make sense?

[Sashaddin]

I'm starting to think you are town

Would you vote Ruirui over me if you are convinced?

[Sashaddin]

Would it be strategically better to vote Ruirui instead of me,
was what I was thinking... sorry for the poor wording

[Sashaddin]

Tbh your list has me and other town reads scum also scum reads as town. So if I have to choose I'd pick to lynch you over rui rui. Why are you trying to convince me to hammer fui through can't you do it yourself?

Oh, I can hammer, I was just asked to wait. Not trying to convince you to do it now, I just wanted to know what was better from your pov, I'm learning a lot in this game, I ask questions.
What I understand is that since our reads are opposite, you assume I'm scum.

[Sashaddin]

6 hours until night. Where is ruirui?

[Sashaddin]

Thanks for the vote count!

[Sashaddin]

I'll give her about 2 hours more then I hammer.

[Sashaddin]

I'll give her about 2 hours more then I hammer.

If your going to vote for him you migth aswell do it now.

VOTE: Ruirui
Let's see how this goes.

[Sashaddin]

I didn't see in CDB iso anything incriminating for anyone, he was trying to push Ruirui at the end of the day.
I would have expected someone more... townier to die last night.
Your reads make sense URAP2

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: Garmr
Ooooh, mama!

[Sashaddin]

also channel is a bizzare af nk tbh

I thought Garmr would be nightkilled.

[Sashaddin]

??? that would also be a bizarre af nk

Ah, I thought he was being townread by a lot of players, and he's a good player. This is another reason why is suspect he's on the red side. Personally, he would have been my choice.

[Sashaddin]

Me too tbh. But if you thought i'd be the night kill why are you voting me fraudulent slip?

Because if you are not dead yet you have a great chance to flip red? I really thought scum would have nk'ed you if they had a chance.

[Sashaddin]

I don't know if I' explaining well enough here.
Garmr surviving the night makes me think he has a lot of % of flipping red, because If he is town I don't think CDB was a better kill over Garmr.

[Sashaddin]

I don’t think it’s far-fetched for scum to leave Garmr alive. He’s been unintentionally contributing to a lot of noise with various players.

Hmmmm... makes sense in a way.

[Sashaddin]

The logic is very flawed as well. Why would you think garmr not being nk woudl make him mafia?

That's what I tried to explain 3 times...

If I were mafia I'd kill town!Garmr first.
Scum!Garmr survives because he can't be killed he's mafia.

LUV has a good point too though. But my first thought was about Garmr being suspect for susrviving the night.

[Sashaddin]

This is making me think you are mafia trying to say. That it couldnt possibly be you as your main risk didnt die

I wasn't speaking of me, I was speaking of Garmr. I never implied myself to be green because of this.

[Sashaddin]

though I think this goes directly against what sash is saying today about scumreading garmr?

If you remember welll, I began the game thiking Garmr was scum. Then I got confused a bit and admitted he could be town. But I was never 100% sure...
So now I vote him because I like my read from the first day plus the fact he's alive now. Although LUV almost made me unvote...

[Sashaddin]

sash, if you were scumreading gamr at eod yesterday, why did you think that he was so townie that he was likely to be a nk if town?

Because mostly everyone else had a strong townread on him.

[Sashaddin]

I don't know if I' explaining well enough here.
Garmr surviving the night makes me think he has a lot of % of flipping red, because If he is town I don't think CDB was a better kill over Garmr.

sasha are you scum after all

No

[Sashaddin]

The logic is very flawed as well. Why would you think garmr not being nk woudl make him mafia?

That's what I tried to explain 3 times...

If I were mafia I'd kill town!Garmr first.
Scum!Garmr survives because he can't be killed he's mafia.

LUV has a good point too though. But my first thought was about Garmr being suspect for susrviving the night.

Ok but what makes you think scum's view of the game is the same as yours is? You'd kill garmr but that seems very based on your own perception of him as a player and I can't understand why

you're saying that

everyone else

would do the same thing.

I never once stated anything about

everyone else

, except LUV's opinion which is

opposite

of me, so not helping my point at all...

I'm just stating my hypothesis, I don't expect everyone (or anyone in fact) to agree with me. I'm writing what's going on in my head when I think about this....

[Sashaddin]

So Sash, if based on # of townreads, Garmr would have been the NK, why was CDB targeted instead?
Scum fakes townreads right? So from that logic, maybe CDB was killed instead because the number of true townreads was higher than Garmr?

What do you make of this? Could you induce something interesting from that analysis?

I took some (work) time to parse all the threads. I might have missed something but here is a summary:

No reads on Garmr or CDB: Bob, Egix, Exilon

LUV: Garmr is town (876)
URAP2: Garmr is town (343, 418), no reads on CDB ever (?)
Garmr: CDB is scum (286)
Inferno: Garmr is scum, CDB is town. No specific posts, just the main trend of the thread.
Skitter: Garmr town (110) and CDB town (285)
Ausuka: CDB is town (212, 800)
Me: CDB as town, Garmr's alignement could be town but I'm not fully convinced yet. I don't know what to do with my vote on him...

So yeah, CDB came out slightly more townie than Garmr. It was not my impression until I did this. It's an interesting (and long) exercise to make, but it has benefits.
How many of those reads are real though, right? My theory of the nightkill doesn't hold water now I guess. I'll go back to (real) work and continue thinking about this.

What's your read on Garmr, Exilon?

[Sashaddin]

Tell who else atm you think is scum or think may be scum

My list is empty! Except maybe Garmr., but not sure.. I am not good at scumreading early, I get better in the later days when more flips are done.

if you were town leaning on garmr d1 why did you say this only a few pages prehammer?

Because I was only 100% sure at the start of the game he was red, the % decreased as the time passed. I'm somewhere around 50% with him right now, I see him as scum sometimes and as town some other. Plus, my nightkill theory added scum points but now I think it's moot.
Does that answer the question or did I miss the point?

[Sashaddin]

Think we got sash in a freudian slip. Were he prety much agued the reason that he as mafia killed CHB over gamr

Where?

[Sashaddin]

So are you saying you kill CBH because allot of people though he was town?

No, I'm beginning to think two players are misrepresenting my thoughts. I never said anything like this. Someone asked me an hypothesis and I did work to answer it. I never concluded anything, I just said my hypothesis was weaker from that exercise.

[Sashaddin]

I'm not sure why you said that you thought he might be town but aren't fully convinced yet.

Reading his posts doesn't give back a 'null' read, it sometimes makes me think scum sometimes town. I can't seem to decipher the slot but the fact he's still alive made me edgy at the start of the day,

[Sashaddin]

Did it not look like a person wanting to avoid if at possible, the blaim for mislynch

Might have looked this way, indeed. I don't like hammering. Haven't done it often and it's always a little more stress than the usual vote.
As for my "it's fun" comment, I liked the way the game was flowing at that moment, I didn't had as much fun in my previous game so I was happy happy

[Sashaddin]

Looks like high risk gambler is sash partner

I can asssure you he's not my scum partner. Town partner though, probably.

[Sashaddin]

Hey sash, what fo u think of the fact that i'm voting u?

sash are you ignoring me on purpose or .... ?

Ah, didn't see that one sorry. I've never ignored intentionally, I think that if someone engages you it is worth at least an interaction. But to get to your point...

1. You didn't seem to like me "dancing with the hammer".
2. You didn't like my hypothesis on the nightkill.
3. I was always a lynch option for you, the best one as you said in 859

I think all of those added up and that's why I'm your target now.

[Sashaddin]

like it feels like he's too self-conscious to do it by himself

I don't think you could conclude this over 821 and 824... I was waiting as asked. I don't hammer often, and it was a good occasion to have a last word from Ruirui, if not even a claim.

[Sashaddin]

what do you think of the fact that i'm pushing you for these things?

Sorry for not understanding the question better, English is not my first language

I think that you have found me very scummy and that you think that I have a high chance of flipping red. I have been challenged a lot this game so there are many angles to attack me from. You might have townread me a little more at the start
of the game but I think it's all l gone now. I feel you won't let go of me today.

[Sashaddin]

that's ok, i'll try to ask again

what do you think of me wrt to my alignment given how hard i'm pushing you?
do you think i really believe the read? am i scum trying to get in a mislynch?

should i be scumreading you here?

Aaaaaahh! Thanks for being precise, I really thought I had answered well in 1000...

1. I think you are probably town. You picked on something and won't let go. I can call this a strong town. If not, you are good...
2. You give solid reasons, this does not look faked, maybe a little reaching with the hammer dance but overall you got the situation well. I don't think you are scum here.
3. Probably... I appear scummy naturally to many people and made questionable moves, so suspicion is natural. Plus I was having a bad Day 1 so it pretty easy to mislynch me today. But you could townread me for a better result! I'm sure I got town stuff in my iso.

[Sashaddin]

ok. from ur pov your town. how do u think scum are interacting with ur wagon rn? are they voting you? staying off? both?

At that time my wagon was Skitter, Bob, Inferno.

I have Skitter and Inferno as town, and Bob as tepid. I think scum are ready to pounce the 4th and 5th slot, but since Bob is already on the wagon, if he's scum maybe only one will jump on.
I have no problem with Skitter and Inferno voting me for their respective reasons, but the way Bob has looked at my slot since Day 2 I begin to feel wary of him. Bob thinks a lot like Garmr lately...

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: Sash
How do you feel now?

I think that if you are voting me on the basis of that single post, you are indeed scum occupying the 4th slot... Now I know you were scumreading me before this, but it looks opportunistic as f. I think you are just trying to make me talk so you can pin me with whatever you want to see.

When you want to kill your dog, you say it has rabies

. That a French saying...
You sure act like town a lot, but some of your actions and words give me a bad feeling about you. About your play, I mean.

[Sashaddin]

let's just lynch sash

^^^^^ bad reaction
especially in the event of town!sash

I'm town and I have the same reaction.

Debatable

Glad it is, that means I can play the game longer because being the first night kill always sucks.

also channel is a bizzare af nk tbh

I thought Garmr would be nightkilled.

Me too tbh. But if you thought i'd be the night kill why are you voting me fraudulent slip?

@Skitter: It seems both Garmr and I thought he wouldn't survive the first night. How is my assumption that bad if the supposed target thought my way too?

[Sashaddin]

Yeah it was a poke to see his reaction. I feel the games stale and I want to get things moving.

What did my reaction tell you?
Were you expecting it?
Will it change your opinion of me, even only temporarily?

I think the game is stale because half the players are posting often and the other is not. Not much to do about this, eh?

[Sashaddin]

Garmr is... difficult to analyse, personally. There's something in his tone that I feel could come from

scum

but his actions and pushes signal something more

town

like to me, so I don't think I'm going to be able to confidently sort him based on that alone. I don't think it's going to happen today, either.

I feel his tone coming from

town

but I think his actions and pushes are more like

scum

to me. (thanks for the phrasing I borrowed)
I think I see him exactly the opposite of of you, but in the end we're as confused about him in our own ways.
I had a weird

feeling

about him from the start, it's been less and more present along Day 1, but I don't think I like what I'm

seeing

Day 2.

Is that coherent enough to be understood? I haven't drank all of my coffees yet.

[Sashaddin]

yeah, do think about it Cause being wishy washy doesn't lead to town wins. Who could benefit the most from having their townread confirmed or their scumread disproved via NK?

I'm a nervous, unsure, paranoiac type of player (see the hammer dance). I'm afraid to make mistakes as town (only rolled scum twice and I found it way easier) so I guess I'm naturally wishy-washy.
To answer the question, I think the one who would benefit the most is the vocal type of player who pretends having strong reads, not the lurker.
Townread confirmed: a scum who townreadsduring his next night NK target willl get town cred
Scumread disproved: maybe a scum misreads on purpose a guy to appear clumsy town, I never thought of this before. Blame it on my lack of scum experience...

[Sashaddin]

I'm a nervous, unsure, paranoiac type of player (see the hammer dance).

In retrospect, I don't know why I typed this, this hammer was the one I was most... comfortable(?) with. But I am still nervous, unsure and paranoid.

[Sashaddin]

CDB was only voted in wagons 1.02 and 1.03, I don't think we can learn much from this.

Gamrr iso was hard to read because he sometimes spells CDB as CBD, making it hard to get a continuous stream. But he had CDB as scum for a while towards the middle of Day 1. I don't think Garmr falls into my first category, and I don't see why Garmr would want to appear "clumsy town". So I have to push Garmr out of those who woujld benefit.
URAP2: doesn't mention CDB in any significant way. Nothing to see here I guess
Inferno: I think he saw CDB as town, but doesn't mention it much, I have to read between the lines to get an idea here. I don't think Inferno would gain much from the NK.
Skitter: Has CDB as possible TR then has no hesitation about her read. So far, Skitter has the best to get from that NK. Problem is that I am TR Skitter...
HRG: from 700, he views as town. I don't think he benefits from anything however.
Ausuka: Has CDB has town, but not strong enough or vocal enough to benefit imo.
Bob, Garmr and Exilon had no reads or interaction with CDB when I posted 945

In conclusion, I think that following this idea, only Skitter benefits somewhat from the NK, but it's not a clear case either. Why would she choose CDB over all her other reads? I didn't not perceive any soft crumble from CDB...

I don't think I got all I could from this, but iso diving is not an exact science...
@Exilon: Do you agree with my analysis?

[Sashaddin]

I was associating Garmr and Bob in a way, I find interesting your case on Egix though. I'll re-read your post after my lunch break, I just had time to skim over it after that long post I just made.

[Sashaddin]

Bob, Garmr and Exilon had no reads or interaction with CDB when I posted 945

Isn't that a day 2 post through did you mispost it.

Dunno, I have to eat and figure out what you mean in 1 hour.

[Sashaddin]

Bob, Garmr and Exilon had no reads or interaction with CDB when I posted 945

Isn't that a day 2 post through did you mispost it.

Maybe I should have said Day 1 instead of naming a post, I wanted to state the fact that I didn't find anything in your respective isos regarding CDB up to when I was looking, which was Day 2.

[Sashaddin]

Sash I actualy find you post 1044 a little weird.

Are you trying to determine who would benifit from the CDB NK? Yet you seem to only going into what others thought of him.

In fact it more arguement who CDB would have killed if he was mafia rather than him being a dead townie.

Look at 1042 for why I did all of this. The question was "who would benefit the most". I could probably start from CDB's reads too but that was not what I was asked. i don't understand your last sentence. Could you reword it?

[Sashaddin]

Can you say why? I mean I have a scum read on sash and it's been clear. for a while. Is it cause I jumped on when he was giving premature scum reads to people joining the wagon.

In post 1021, Sashaddin wrote:
I think scum are ready to pounce the 4th and 5th slot, but since Bob is already on the wagon, if he's scum maybe only one will jump on.

This reads defensive and trying to threaten people from jumping on him. That's like a invitation for me.

Ah, that's what you didn't like.
Well I was asked about my wagon and replied to the best of my ability. I can have an idea about who's on but not of the others who are off it. Is being predictive scummy? I was only speculating until you jumped into 4th slot... then you concretised(sp?) it. Can I be blamed for predicting something you did?

My reads were that my wagon was probably town in majority, I don't think it's far-fetched to expect a scum or two to hop on and finish the job.

[Sashaddin]

It's not a matter of agreeing or not, I'm just trying to give you some food for thought and help town.

a) What do you mean by clumsy town wrt Garmr? Don't you think having wrong reads is more likely townie than scummy?
b) I get the feeling that URAP2 did actually have relevant things to say about CDB, you probably want to recheck that

Food for thought.... I feel full for today

a) Scum who would push hard a read on someone to have a mislynch, but won't get town cred for that.
b) Posts: 361,

408

x2, 434x2 are the posts where CDB is mentioned. Can you spot me what posts you think I should look at?

[Sashaddin]

Don't you think having wrong reads is more likely townie than scummy?

It's not automatic to me, some scum are good at creating a table of fake reads and screw one or two of those not to appear omniscient.

[Sashaddin]

yeah, do think about it Cause being wishy washy doesn't lead to town wins. Who could benefit the most from having their townread confirmed or their scumread disproved via NK?

I'm a nervous, unsure, paranoiac type of player (see the hammer dance). I'm afraid to make mistakes as town (only rolled scum twice and I found it way easier) so I guess I'm naturally wishy-washy.
To answer the question, I think the one who would benefit the most is the vocal type of player who pretends having strong reads, not the lurker.
Townread confirmed: a scum who townreadsduring his next night NK target willl get town cred
Scumread disproved: maybe a scum misreads on purpose a guy to appear clumsy town, I never thought of this before. Blame it on my lack of scum experience...

Sash you seem to imply that those that were reading CDB as town wouldnt kill him yet those that were reading him as scum would.

How woudl this benifit the respective person. As why would some nk one the guys they are pushing to lynch rather than one that would not support it?

And in the case of skitter why would you think he woudl benifit. when in CDB town list he was reading him as strongly town

I am implying the contrary, it would be better for a scum to NK a strong townread of his to gain town cred.
Skitter was only the person with the strongest read on CDB, I don't necessarily suspect her but

from that analysis

she would be the one who benefits the most. I'm sure we could find 1234 reasons why she would not be scum but I was asked to do something and did it and showed the results.

[Sashaddin]

(Emphasis added by me)
I legit can't tell whether you're saying he must be scum (implied by your use of the word indeed), he might be scum (last italicised part), or he's town who's scumsiding ("the 4th slot").

The word indeed was woking with think, like I was deducing he was scum, not implying it as an absolute. I worded my sentence very baly htis time it seems.
What is a town who's scumsiding? I don't get this

[Sashaddin]

I imagine that sash likely did a search for cdb, while I generally referred to him as Channel.

Ah, crap!

[Sashaddin]

Now I see you spoke of him, scumreading at first then townreading near middle of the Day.
I got played because he announced himself as CDB, i was searching for this in very iso.

[Sashaddin]

if he's scum why does he make a vote that he knows u will call scummy?

Because he doesn't care about being called scum by me I thought. He's hiding himself by being obvious...

[Sashaddin]

ftr i actually think ur play here looks *drastically* different than the scumgame i played with

if this is ur townplay u look a lot scummier as town than as scum

You're not the first to tell me this... a lot of people who did my meta approves.

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: Skitter

This is where we really should be lynching today.
And I don't want to vote outside of Skitter, Bob, and Ausuka either.

Skitter is not my first choice here, but since we talked she's the one I'm most curious to see flip.
Why don't you like the Egix wagon, HRG?

[Sashaddin]

Doesn’t feel like scum are being wagoned right now.

True

[Sashaddin]

Town who's scumsiding = a town member who's (not on purpose ofc) playing into the scum's hands. Considering that Mini Normals usually have 3 mafia I thought that "the 4th slot" could mean "honorary 4th mafia member".

Thanks!
I hardly imagine Garmr this way though...

[Sashaddin]

Hey Bob, what's your read on me at this moment?

[Sashaddin]

I know you're first on the wagon but you could have changed your mind or something

[Sashaddin]

On balance i don't think this looks like sash's scumgame, even if he is being kinda scummy in a vaccum.

Stealing this gem for my signature!

[Sashaddin]

kinda want to go here

VOTE: exilon

I townread him, don't count on me

[Sashaddin]

His attitude changed a lot towards me in Day 1. He wanted my lynch, for info he said, but was still defending me against the pushes of others (Garmr and Bob). He ended up on Ruirui's wagon but still wanted to lynch me. His actions seem more town to me. I don't see scum playing like this, it doesn't pass my smell test.

Against others, his posts were rational and inquisitive. Another town trait to me.

I could write a few sentences more but I gotta run, I hope this is enough for you to see my point.

[Sashaddin]

You can explain further why I should vote Egix though.

Oh no, I won't try to comvince you, I just wanted to know to have a meaning of your pov. I'm not voting there either.

[Sashaddin]

Ah, here we go:

Also I want to quickly address this

Think we got sash in a freudian slip. Were he prety much agued the reason that he as mafia killed CHB over gamr

No. It's really not a freudian slip. Hell he just disproved his own thesis and it was all public, so unless it was 100% fake, which is what you have to accuse him of in order to say this, this is just false.

He doesn't come back to this, but I think that's expected considering there were a lot of parallell conversations happening at once atm

Also, I can't find any other mention to the possibility that I'm scum in the Rui wagon, for some reason...? did I miss something?

Was I the one supposed to come back to this?

[Sashaddin]

I’m really behind and there’s way too much for me to sort rn
So someone talk to me

OK, what are your reads of Egix, Ausuka and Exilon?
Am I still in your lynchpool?

[Sashaddin]

I'd like everyone soon to post three scumreads and the lynch order they would have for those scumreads

Garmr > Bob. I don't have a third right now.
Townreading Exilon and Inferno. HRG is a lean.

[Sashaddin]

Sash as town would complicate things that would mean either Ausuka or URap2 is scum but i don't think their scum togther, Inferno could still be in that list and the 3rd slot could be between high risk and egix.

So in a perfect world sash is scum.

I could see Ausuka as scum, URAP 2 pings me town more and more.

Nothing is perfect in this world.

[Sashaddin]

Sash as town would complicate things that would mean either Ausuka or URap2 is scum but i don't think their scum togther, Inferno could still be in that list and the 3rd slot could be between high risk and egix.

So in a perfect world sash is scum.

I could see Ausuka as scum, URAP 2 pings me town more and more.

Nothing is perfect in this world.

[Sashaddin]

^^ Nothing is perfect, lol!

[Sashaddin]

I had a look at his ISO from the Mini Normal where he was scum with Garmr (can't remember the number atm) and found that, compared to 2054, he was a lot less awkward and had more of an air of knowing what he was doing. Here in this game, I'm leaning town on him based on what I've seen of his meta.

Mini normal 2044
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77764

[Sashaddin]

Tbh your list has me and other town reads scum also scum reads as town. So if I have to choose I'd pick to lynch you over rui rui. Why are you trying to convince me to hammer fui through can't you do it yourself?

Oh, I can hammer, I was just asked to wait. Not trying to convince you to do it now, I just wanted to know what was better from your pov, I'm learning a lot in this game, I ask questions.
What I understand is that since our reads are opposite, you assume I'm scum.

VC 1.FINAL

RuiRui (7):

ChannelDelibird 174, Egix96 233, u r a person 2 638, High Risk Gamble 754, Exilon 771, Ausuka 800, Sashaddin 850

LYNCH!

Sashaddin (4):

bob3141 180, skitter30 742, Garmr 748, Lil Uzi Vert751

u r a person 2 (2):

Inferno390 79, RuiRui 484

Not Voting:

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Finally is sach was town and both urp2 and ausuka are town. Then I can't imagine why mafia simply didn't hammer sach.

Since they would have ended up on the rui lynch anyway

cause it was day 1 lol, a lot of scum are like, "I don't wanna really be noticed for doing anything" day 1, including hammering

the way sasha treated the hammer is one of the best reasons to townread him imo (unless I'm hilariously wrong)

Hence my theory that mafia hoped onto the rui lynch from the sach lynch. Might be only one on sach to begin with but since maybe they dint want to hammer they jumped into the rui wagon before it got to L-1


And after my questioning of sach over the hammer that is one thing that increases decreased my leanign towards himbeing scum. As i think if he was scum he would of played for no lynch (not even mentioned hammering). But at start of day 2 teh interaction between sach asking gamr if he wanted to hammer did feel odd. And made me belive he hoped someone else would hammer. Although he woudlnt avoid blame for teh lynch, he coudl simpy, say he woudl have. makign it a pool of 8 not 7. But Ive since moved to the later beign unlikely to be the case.

Bob, as you can see, my interaction with Garmr was late Day1, not start Day 2. It makes a difference I think.

[Sashaddin]

Garmr is not afraid to fakeclaim:
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77764&start=850
Keeping my vanity vote on him for now.

[Sashaddin]

Can I just point out the fact Sash has stopped trying to solve game and been hiding behind my vote for ages. Sash will do more than rui, Sash will post content they said.

The three lynches du jour are Skitter, Ausuka and Egix.

Ausuka seems the most scummy one but not by much. I reread her iso a couple of times over the last few days and I think I begin to have an idea what's down.
Egix seems town. I read his iso and it seems mostly clean to me. He also tried to meta me to know me, which is towny
Skitter is the one that could the most be scum, but she appears more towny than Ausuka to me. Her massive iso gave me a headache.

I don't find anyone in here particularly scummy, but knowing this, I think I'd lynch Skitter because of strategy but Ausuka might be a reasonable choice too.

[Sashaddin]

Are you trying to say that skitter reads more towny than Ausuka but skitter has more scum equity? I kinda get the feeling that you're waffling here but I'm not sure if I follow.

Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking. I could say it as "I'm more curious to see Skitter flip than Ausuka". I feel we would get more info by flipping Skitter who interacted with many people, Ausuka was more discreet. Also, while Skitter appears more towny, she could easily be deceiving us by being scum.
I'm not sure if this is waffling?

[Sashaddin]

No offense but that's a pretty awful take

None taken. I get pretty weird ideas sometimes. I don't seem to see the game like most, and in a wrong way.
Anyways, I still like it or I wouldn't be here.

[Sashaddin]

Ah, so it's not that skitter has more scum equity per se, but rather that you would gain more info from her interactions with other players? I see.

It seems I don't understand "scum equity". I thought my reasoning was about scum equity. Can someone teach me in a few lines?

[Sashaddin]

scum equity basically boils down to the chance that a slot has to flip scum.

Ok thanks, this is so not what I thought it was. I thought it meant "value of a flip"and not "% of scum"

[Sashaddin]

There's only two reason why they would do this Sash is scum or

sash is so bad this game

his basically honorary scum members.

My thoughts exactly. I'm more of a distraction to town than a helper this game. I think it would be safer to get rid of me, but basically advocating for my own mislynch is kind of going against my wincon....

[Sashaddin]

Spoiler:

Can I just point out the fact Sash has stopped trying to solve game and been hiding behind my vote for ages. Sash will do more than rui, Sash will post content they said.

The three lynches du jour are Skitter, Ausuka and Egix.

Ausuka seems the most scummy one but not by much. I reread her iso a couple of times over the last few days and I think I begin to have an idea what's down.
Egix seems town. I read his iso and it seems mostly clean to me. He also tried to meta me to know me, which is towny
Skitter is the one that could the most be scum, but she appears more towny than Ausuka to me. Her massive iso gave me a headache.

I don't find anyone in here particularly scummy, but knowing this, I think I'd lynch Skitter because of strategy but Ausuka might be a reasonable choice too.

This and other things just makes me feel i was originally right about you being scum. And that the reason your lynch failed was simply because your partners pushed a counterwagon.

After ausuka responses, Im feeling now he is the least likely of what i identfied as group B to be scum. That being ausuka , you(sach) and urp2.

Now to your post. You say you dont find anyone in that list particularly scummy yet in 1302 you say you could see ausuka as scum. Which to me feels alittle contradictory. So as i read it, You find ausuka the most scummy of 3 players you dont find to be scummy yet you can see him as scum.

So if no one in that list strikes you as scummy then why did you say you could see Ausuka as scum?

-----

Second apart from your push on both me and gamr I have not seen you enquire anywhere else. This level of focus seems very odd. You talk about saying you could vote for ausuka or skitter yet nothing there is original there.


You gave no details about what you read in ausuka iso. So that has no substance
Both egix and skitter. you did the same - no substance


And there are few players Ive not seen you intereact with like gamble. Its why for a bit i thought he was your partner as i couldnt see any serous attempts from you to read him. Felt to me like scum trying to avoid associations. So my question is what do you think about every player and what made you think that. And not just e.g. you read there iso. What in theer iso stuck out to you

---

Thirdly I dont like how you seem to be offering your vote for two players in the same post as you just said they dont look scummy to you. If they dont look scummy to you why woudl you think lynching some you dont think is town is reasonable or a good strategy

It exactly matches you reasoning for killing Rui. Every lynch you seem to say ok it will give us info.


This all makes me I was right day 1 about you being scum

VOTE: sach

I'm sorry my style doesn't matches yours. I'm not too wally by nature, and English is not my first language so I don't read, compute and write at the same speed as you do perhaps. That's why I have tendency to make shorter posts. Also, I don't see everyone always justifying their reads...."Bob is town" was pretty popular this game, without any explanations coming with it. Regarding who I speak with, well I mostly interact with those who interact with me too or the ones I am curious about. I don't have an interest for everyone Day1, there are too many players so I focus on the ones I have the most... "affinity" ... with at first.
Regarding Ausuka, Egix and Skitter.... when someone asks you for susbstance, but it's already late and your wife is fuming, I can go iso skimming but deep diving is not time-appropriate. Is it still worth it I go on detail since you scumread me?
About your third point, Skitter wanted to lynch me exactly for info Day 1, so what's the difference here?

[Sashaddin]

np. It's a term that originates from poker (pot equity), where it actually has a meaning closer to what you're talking about.

Yes, I play poker too that's probably why I thought it worked that way.

[Sashaddin]

Actually I feel like there is a function that works like pot equity: "%chance of being scum × threat level as scum". That's what scum equity should be

Clever

[Sashaddin]

sash was *always* a better lynch yesterday than ruirui (for everyone other than sash obvs), just from a purely mechanical perspective given that sash had claimed, rui hadn't, and rui was a lurker who was, at least in part, getting wagoned for lurking and it was not at all guaranteed that they'd come and claim before eod (and, guess what, they didn't)

With what you said in mind, I now understand that what I thought was a need for info on Day 1 was a mechanical thing. I can see why a certain post looks stupid now.

[Sashaddin]

Spoiler:

i will vote sash before i go to sleep tonight if the wagons look similar to how they are now; i don't think he's going to flip scum but no-lynching day1 is dumb

which ones?

592, 632 and 635
You tell me if they are town to you...

Dont like the first post, the second two are nai imo

VOTE: sash

^^^^ entirely a compromise eod vote. I dont scumread him and i dont think he's flipping scum

lack of being town is a fallacious argument for voting someone
(and it's scummy that you're pushing this and we should really be voting u but whatever at this point in the day)

on balance i feel like sash is a better compromise wagon

(both in terms of likelihood to happen + i'm kinda gut-town on rui whereas sash i just don't think is scum; which is not at all the same thing as thinking he's town. he made a few townie posts, sure, but none of the reasons people are scumreading him are good and holistically he's like .... null)

I will admit that percolating on it all today has made me less certain than I was. However, I do feel pretty good that Sash is town

I dont think either are flipping scum, at this point i kinda think we have to cut out losses and go with the least-bad option

Unfortunately yes, I always thought that because of those posts I was more "valuable" than Ruirui because Ruirui was less active. I still think my pov is somewhat right, but it looks it wasn't your main intent.
The more I play, the more my both fun and confidence levels look like this:

I'm at the question mark right now.

[Sashaddin]

Sash's posting has not impressed on any level and they definitely give off a sense that they have a scum agenda.

"Impressive" -- have you looked at sasha's games? Isn't he like always dead by day 3? He wasn't kidding about being a frequent mislynch

The only time I made it to lylo was when I was scum myself. You did your homework well, detective!

[Sashaddin]

don't you think it makes sense for me as town to go back to sring sasha when bob is probtown?

Probably yes, since Bob has been scumreading me as well. But, will you be scumreading Bob in return when I flip green? His interest for me always come after I engage with Garmr iirc...

[Sashaddin]

Those two are speaking very close to one another, looking at the post numbers. I sense some synergy between them...

Spoiler:

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af

but

I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

Very much looks like an attempt to pretend to defend soemone

but

at the same time keep using the"

but .....

"

As well as trying to emphasize possible scummy actions

but

raising this in a pretend defense. So If i got lynched and untimatly revealed as town you could simply say you dint think i was scum and could hold no blame

____

I think you are trying hard on this one, throwing shade on URAP2. Your argument made no sense too, you are using the very same word you are suspicious of.

VOTE: Bob3141

Your argument for your vote against me is rather far fetched. And very much looks like your are trying realy hard to make a case against me.

And your beleif that using a conjunctive (in this case but ) is evidence for someone being scum does appear a bit forced. And you even claim that was teh reason i was initially slightly suspicous of Uperson rather than that it at first appeared to discrete attempt to defend a person but instead trying to cast them in bad light

think when some words an insult as complent and vice versa


__

Another reason i am voting for you is viewtopic.php?p=10899154#p10899154

You did the same thing that made me suspicous of bird but even more so. You vote for U person and only state you agree with skitter. Come across very much like scum trying to get bandwagon going but trying to avoid any responsibility if the player is revealsed as town. By saying you think x is town and you agree with him to lynch y.

VOTE: Sashaddin
__

VOTE: Sashaddin

A wagon appears soon after I mention wanting to hang him, it's like a gift from the heavens.

Me too tbh. But if you thought i'd be the night kill why are you voting me fraudulent slip?

Because if you are not dead yet you have a great chance to flip red? I really thought scum would have nk'ed you if they had a chance.

Obviously not if I'm the wagon out the start of the gate.

I don't know if I' explaining well enough here.
Garmr surviving the night makes me think he has a lot of % of flipping red, because If he is town I don't think CDB was a better kill over Garmr.

I find this very suspect. Looks very much like mafia trying to make a play.

The logic is very flawed as well. Why would you think garmr not being nk woudl make him mafia?


The bandwagon on rui is very suspect. I would def think all but at most one scum are on it.

Luzi is confirmed town, garmr is town in my eyes as his scum hunting proved it, inferno comes across as town. And lastly Skitter who my reeds are more neutral

The logic is very flawed as well. Why would you think garmr not being nk woudl make him mafia?

That's what I tried to explain 3 times...

If I were mafia I'd kill town!Garmr first.
Scum!Garmr survives because he can't be killed he's mafia.

LUV has a good point too though. But my first thought was about Garmr being suspect for susrviving the night.

This is making me think you are mafia trying to say. That it couldnt possibly be you as your main risk didnt die



VOTE: sash

Who we should of lynched yesterday.

Disnt like yesterday how sash appeared to be fishing for someoen to take his place rui wagon. Very much looked like mafia not wanting to be on teh wagons as he knew rui woudl flip town

Bob, Garmr and Exilon had no reads or interaction with CDB when I posted 945

Isn't that a day 2 post through did you mispost it.

Sash I actualy find you post 1044 a little weird.

Are you trying to determine who would benifit from the CDB NK? Yet you seem to only going into what others thought of him. In fact it more arguement who CDB would have killed if he was mafia rather than him being a dead townie.

Sash you seem to imply that those that were reading CDB as town wouldnt kill him yet those that were reading him as scum would.

How woudl this benifit the respective person. As why would some nk one the guys they are pushing to lynch rather than one that would not support it?

And in the case of skitter why would you think he woudl benifit. when in CDB town list he was reading him as strongly town

For this bit i will ignor sash posts. as i will work of two conditions

condition a - sash is town
condition b - sash is scum

Now as i go into this analysis the person thats screaming out to me is Ausuka. ( disclaimer, this not full analysis- think ausuka as food stuck in your teeth. There is just something bugging me about him )

Now if sash is scum or not. he fits both conditions.

He didnt leave sach till no lynch was near and voted rui

Now sach vote first stalled at 4 votes. Now if it as ausuka himself points out it could be stalled as scom scum are alreadon it

If that was the case then the only possible person at that point was Ausuka.

And start of day 2 in relation sach. He started with faulty logic when trying to push against gamr. Effectively saying him being alive was evidence that he was scum, even though he argued he looked scummy. So i put it to him in effect, why would you expect gamr to die if he was town if you think he is scummy

VOTE: Sash

I'm happy lynching sash.

Considering looking at the vote count

Sashaddin (5):

u r a person 2 159, Ausuka 162,

Lil Uzi Vert 173, bob3141 180, Garmr 181

[

b]RuiRui (4):[/b] ChannelDelibird

174, skitter30 201, Egix96 233, Exilon 234

u r a person 2 (1):

Inferno390 79

Exilon (1):

cbynumber 24

bob3141 (1):

Sashaddin 151

Not Voting:

RuiRui

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

3 confirmed town were at the end of the sash wagon. the counter wagon was confirmed town.

It's clear that atleast one scum has to be on the latter end of the Rui wagon and only 1 OF URAP2 or aus can be scum it's possible they are all town. If they are majority town(since only 1 at most can be scum at this point) that enforces that the counter wagon was pushed by scum hard. Meaning that didn't want sash lynched.

There's only two reason why they would do this Sash is scum or sash is so bad this game his basically honorary scum members.

Can I just point out the fact Sash has stopped trying to solve game and been hiding behind my vote for ages. Sash will do more than rui, Sash will post content they said.

The three lynches du jour are Skitter, Ausuka and Egix.

Ausuka seems the most scummy one but not by much. I reread her iso a couple of times over the last few days and I think I begin to have an idea what's down.
Egix seems town. I read his iso and it seems mostly clean to me. He also tried to meta me to know me, which is towny
Skitter is the one that could the most be scum, but she appears more towny than Ausuka to me. Her massive iso gave me a headache.

I don't find anyone in here particularly scummy, but knowing this, I think I'd lynch Skitter because of strategy but Ausuka might be a reasonable choice too.

This and other things just makes me feel i was originally right about you being scum. And that the reason your lynch failed was simply because your partners pushed a counterwagon.

After ausuka responses, Im feeling now he is the least likely of what i identfied as group B to be scum. That being ausuka , you(sach) and urp2.

Now to your post. You say you dont find anyone in that list particularly scummy yet in 1302 you say you could see ausuka as scum. Which to me feels alittle contradictory. So as i read it, You find ausuka the most scummy of 3 players you dont find to be scummy yet you can see him as scum.

So if no one in that list strikes you as scummy then why did you say you could see Ausuka as scum?

-----

Second apart from your push on both me and gamr I have not seen you enquire anywhere else. This level of focus seems very odd. You talk about saying you could vote for ausuka or skitter yet nothing there is original there.


You gave no details about what you read in ausuka iso. So that has no substance
Both egix and skitter. you did the same - no substance


And there are few players Ive not seen you intereact with like gamble. Its why for a bit i thought he was your partner as i couldnt see any serous attempts from you to read him. Felt to me like scum trying to avoid associations. So my question is what do you think about every player and what made you think that. And not just e.g. you read there iso. What in theer iso stuck out to you

---

Thirdly I dont like how you seem to be offering your vote for two players in the same post as you just said they dont look scummy to you. If they dont look scummy to you why woudl you think lynching some you dont think is town is reasonable or a good strategy

It exactly matches you reasoning for killing Rui. Every lynch you seem to say ok it will give us info.


This all makes me I was right day 1 about you being scum

VOTE: sach

[Sashaddin]

This game seems slow for three competing wagons with 24 hours left

Sashaddin we're not lynching Garmr today. How do you feel about Ausuka and Egix?

If I have to choose, I choose Ausuka. I liked Egix's posts a lot more, especially Day 1. Ausuka can reveal more info too with a flip I think.
VOTE: Ausuka

[Sashaddin]

Is town dumb this game because it's easy to see that sash is scum.

[Sashaddin]

If you're going to hammer, Inferno, you should probably do it.

Can I have any last words?

[Sashaddin]

I'd say it's Garmr, Bob and one of Ausuka or Skitter. Because scum has to have a girl, right?

[Sashaddin]

I also apologize for being such a distraction this game. I have learned a lot though, so thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my questions.