Mini Normal 2075 - Game Over

[u r a person 2]

what does nani mean?

@skygazer Do you mind if I treat you like a human being this game?

VOTE: bambi jay baa baaa

[u r a person 2]

nani

it's a breadcrumb to future claim to be aligned with the wolf faction

seriously tho i'd really like to understand at least the first page of this game

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: bambi jay

Speed lynch go fast SPAM CAPS

nice to see you again?

what alignment do you think that I think you are right now?

[u r a person 2]

i did not mean to put a question mark there but i think it might be better that way =P

[u r a person 2]

Lock town

close..

[u r a person 2]

Pedit: Nani.

is this japanese for "what" in this instance?

[u r a person 2]

also page top

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE:

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE:

not todaaay

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE:

scummy

good thing you're voting for me then

[u r a person 2]

I genuinely believe bambi’s scum here, change my mind

better idea, tell us why

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Skygazer

Let’s do this instead.

Only once before has someone voted me in rvs because "they aren't a person" but I can't for the life of me remember if they were scum or what game it was in.

I remember thinking it was scummy at the time tho.

~useless post

[u r a person 2]

I genuinely believe bambi’s scum here, change my mind

better idea, tell us why

Because you’re scum with her and you unvoted for no reason, you just messed up my waganomics man

so why not lynch me?

Why was bambi scum prior to my unvote?

I don't want to kill your buzz, but I'm getting the feeling this is actually pretty scum-indicative from you. You seem like the time of person to try and get a too scum to be scum read as scum

p.edit interesting that you asked...

[u r a person 2]

actually yeah

VOTE: u r a person

genuine scumread

'splain

[u r a person 2]

i'm not an alt btw?

i came from calipunk forum (spanish), but it got closed down

i've read a fair bit of games here though

i thought it would be /notcool to play in the newbie queue

VOTE: rainn

[u r a person 2]

K yeah this can die, urap reads me like a book and I should be conftown from his PoV

VOTE: urap2

Sayonara

you know this for a fact not to be true and a check of our interlocked meta will show that my accuracy on you is like just over 50% when I don't have a cop check on you before you replace into the game =P

[u r a person 2]

Why was this worth a vote?

too cool for school, i don't care how many games they read

thus, lynch all liars

[u r a person 2]

That’s false

it's not, but I wish it was.

[u r a person 2]

How do you know Rainn is lying? Like they're actually an alt?

not buying the carefree quick posting from new player regardless of how many games they read, thus lying. I think I just said this?

[u r a person 2]

and ur asking me to explain a page 3 vote seems defensive

how's that now?

[u r a person 2]

unvote looked vaguely lamist

well, it was definitely pro-town if that's what you mean

[u r a person 2]

idk, tone?? it's page 4 and ur acting like i should have more to go off of to justify my vote and i don't like it

you called it a genuine scum read. if it was genuine, it had a reason. I wanted to know the reason.

I'm afraid if you don't like me asking why people vote, you're not going to like me very much =/

[u r a person 2]

unvote looked vaguely lamist

well, it was definitely pro-town if that's what you mean

Unless bambi is scum, which we don’t know

still pro-town even if they had posted a scum role pm in the thread

[u r a person 2]

and which alignment would prioritize looking town?

:thonk:

i didn't say it looked pro-town. I said it WAS pro-town. It was a very likely possibility that I would be wagoned for unvoting, and I knew that when I did it. If I were scum with Jay, I would have let him deal with the pressure.

[u r a person 2]

Why was it likely that you were going to get wagoned if you unvoted? It seems like a shit wifom case

because this game is wagon heavy, and it was going to be the most obvious action in the thread to look at after dismantling jay's wagon? like, this should be fucking obvious mate

[u r a person 2]

Frankly Urap doesn't seem the kind of guy to jump on and off his scum partner's wagon immediately. I don't know how your justifying making him a scumread for it.

How do you know that?

do you disagree?

[u r a person 2]

you're missing the point

we're in a gamestate where we don't have a lot to go off of which makes ur reaction to my "genuine" vote look worse/worried imo

excuse me? We're in a low info game state which is why I'm asking for more info

I don't know if you're pressuring me to scumhunt or because you're bad scum getting caught up in this fast pace, but this is not a good line of thought.

And bb, please. You're not going to get me shook. =P

[u r a person 2]

alch i feel like i'd be a very easy push for scum you to do here tbh which worries me

I thought being worried early was scummy?

[u r a person 2]

That’s not what I said, I want to know why she said that. Do you guys have experience from other games or did you have some time to get well-acquainted prior to the start of the game?

I know what you said, and Jay can answer for himself.

I want to know if you disagree with him. Answer, please.

[u r a person 2]

It was a trolly RVS wagon. I'd expect scum to pile on something low-info for town like that, not jump off. Don't see how that's suspicious or would get you targetted.

well, it did get me targeted, so you might want to reconsider your assumptions.

[u r a person 2]

the way ur going about it looks like you're more concerned about my read on you than gathering info

how's that, now?
I'm trying my best to get info =(

[u r a person 2]

That’s not what I said, I want to know why she said that. Do you guys have experience from other games or did you have some time to get well-acquainted prior to the start of the game?

I know what you said, and Jay can answer for himself.

I want to know if you disagree with him. Answer, please.

If he can answer for himself, let him answer then.

I am letting him answer. That's why I didn't answer. I simply asked if you disagreed. If you're interested in his answer, push him to answer.

I'm pushing you to answer my question. Do you disagree?

[u r a person 2]

I thought being worried early was scummy?

going for a player just because they made an L-1 vote (esp when that player doesn't like having attention drawn to them as scum) is concerning, no? seems like a very easy push to make without getting any blowback and that's what I remember from alch's scum MO from sneks and noodles

I'm failing to see the connection, but it sounds like you have a better handle on Alch as a player than I do

[u r a person 2]

Yeah but you wouldn’t have any idea on what might’ve happened, you can’t predict the future. You’re saying “I knew I was going to get wagonned” when that’s a faulty assumption. You’re using that as a defence.

I mean, I thought it was likely to happen, and it did happen. For 5 bucks, I'll read your palm, too

[u r a person 2]

the way ur going about it looks like you're more concerned about my read on you than gathering info

how's that, now?
I'm trying my best to get info =(

now it seems like you're trying your best to make it look like you're getting info

You are not playing in good faith. If town, please about face

[u r a person 2]

here's a TMI read:

insomnia locktownish

yeah im reversing towards town insomnia too. This is a bit too... what's the word... coherent for scum insomnia

[u r a person 2]

about face?

about face, reverse course, turn around

basically, stop playing in bad faith if you're town

[u r a person 2]

here's a TMI read:

insomnia locktownish

This is what urap’s read should’ve been

Time’s up bud

Gosh, how I've missed your charisma

[u r a person 2]

@Jay So I'll ask you this. Why does the L-1 in a normal so concern you? Is it just not wanting to be voted out. Realistically anyone who lolhammers like less than an hour in is gone immediately Day 2.

In my experience, lol hammers happen more often than you would think and rarely result in a scum lynch the following day

[u r a person 2]

here's a TMI read:

insomnia locktownish

yeah im reversing towards town insomnia too. This is a bit too... what's the word... coherent for scum insomnia

are you wolf here for real?

when this is wolf!insomnia ever?

maybe he is wolf and will show it later in game, but right now he is solid town?

I'm not sure you understood my post

[u r a person 2]

@Jay So I'll ask you this. Why does the L-1 in a normal so concern you? Is it just not wanting to be voted out. Realistically anyone who lolhammers like less than an hour in is gone immediately Day 2.

In my experience, lol hammers happen more often than you would think and rarely result in a scum lynch the following day

I could see that in general, but we were basically in RVS I don't see a scum getting out of that.

we'll just have to agree to disagree here

the thing is, it isn't a guarantee that the lol hammer would be from scum. It really isn't.

[u r a person 2]

I’m actually more coherent as scum, so that’s another bad read on urap. My town tell is my big balls push that’s giving my alignment away, not coherence. Weird that urap failed to use that as a reasoning for town reading me

your posts make my brain hurt when you're scum

[u r a person 2]

my only town read right now is insomnia

[u r a person 2]

poe

so you're TRing me??? why??

do you want me to change my mind?

i've already weakened a lot my good feelings on you with this post

a lot.

why?

[u r a person 2]

tone had an bit of overreaction on it

i imagine town!sky would be more casual about it

you think town!sky would be more casual about questioning a town read on them? Is this a general read or a meta read specific to sky?

[u r a person 2]

tone had an bit of overreaction on it

i imagine town!sky would be more casual about it

you think town!sky would be more casual about questioning a town read on them? Is this a general read or a meta read specific to sky?

both

hmm. i think it's the opposite, generally speaking

can you explain the meta aspect with a little more depth?

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: montosh

A lot of reasons in this iso why other people's opinions are bad, and very little opinion outside of that. I'll figure out how to put it into words better later, but I think this is scum

[u r a person 2]

btw it's not impossible that insomnia is purposely trying to play around urap by acting this way

but later we'll see

i'm fine with my poe right now

Insomnia and URAP having vastly different takes on how URAP should be reading him is odd. Maybe not playing around him per se but definitely worth keeping an eye on.

Somewhere around our last game he decided that I have a soul read on him, but statistically it's demonstrably false.

In fact, my heaviest scum read on him was a game where he was town. The tunnel was so deep that I congratulated town on the victory after he was lynched during lylo (winning scum the game)

[u r a person 2]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _modifiers

"day" is not a normal modifier according to this

[u r a person 2]

If only I could kill ya, Insomnia. If only. So many people would finally be able to rest in peace.

I thought this was really brutal

until I got the joke

[u r a person 2]

If you want my meta, I'll show you my two scum games. I've never voted a partner

not saying it's outside my scum range because I don't think it is, but if I am scum here and if Jay is my partner, this would be a first.

[u r a person 2]

here's a TMI read:

insomnia locktownish

yeah im reversing towards town insomnia too. This is a bit too... what's the word... coherent for scum insomnia

This antagonism is weird. Calling out their usual town play as incoherent. Might call it an early bus if I thought scum would do that. Do you have a lot of games together?

we have a few, but you misread me. His town games are more coherent than his scum games, imo

I don't mean it as antagonistic. I can find you an example if you want, but his arguments of scum are like a game of 3 card monte. It's not a bad thing, I've seen it work for him

[u r a person 2]

insomnia, sky, ceejay, urap

i want you to interact with me until you town read me because i want this to be the town block in the game that i'll work with

if there is a wolf between the above players it's prob only one and later we can reevaluate

sure, why is cj town?

[u r a person 2]

CJ, are you taking a page out of shoshin's book from that newbie we just finished?

With the self vote, I mean

[u r a person 2]

He’s not approached the game at all so far.

I think I know how you play though so I’m not worried.

it's ok you're lockwolf and we're just lynching you today

I think you're wrong on roster.

and maybe cj

[u r a person 2]

nani

it's a breadcrumb to future claim to be aligned with the wolf faction

seriously tho i'd really like to understand at least the first page of this game

Understand what? The word was only used once up until this point and I don’t think there was anything else said or done that screamed weird or unusual.

the word. I wanted to understand the word

It's like at a poker table. The guys speaking french might just be talking about the weather, or they might be talking about their cards

either way, I couldn't know until someone tells me about it

(which is why poker tables enforce a common language, but different topic for a different place)

but also it was a way to start making things happen on p1

[u r a person 2]

I don't think playing to get reactions is in bad faith at all

Well they are if you don’t know what you’re doing and what you’re trying to accomplish.

i would argue that my push on urap and his reaction helped spew him as town

lol
I spew as town perfectly fine without help, thank you very much

[u r a person 2]

sky you're reaching confwolf levels right now and i'm not joking or trying reactions

I feel like I'm asking this a lot


..Why?

[u r a person 2]

i'm trying to sort you fast and end this day fast

=/

[u r a person 2]

sky you're reaching confwolf levels right now and i'm not joking or trying reactions

I feel like I'm asking this a lot


..Why?

[u r a person 2]

I'm too lazy to read the mon case if there's one, I just know he flips town, the wagon composition is disgusting as hell

I'm wondering if you've evolved to using reverse psychology to stay off mislynches as scum rn

because this def isn't an effective way to push a town read

[u r a person 2]

I'm too lazy to read the mon case if there's one, I just know he flips town, the wagon composition is disgusting as hell

I'm wondering if you've evolved to using reverse psychology to stay off mislynches as scum rn

because this def isn't an effective way to push a town read

how do you know it's a mislynch prior to the flip though?

I think he's scum. I'm voting there. Calm yourself.

Also rather bleh that you're pushing a tmi read under a quote of yourself saying "I just know he flips town"

[u r a person 2]

I’m not going to do any ISOs unless you say “Please daddy insomnia”

Nor am I answering any questions

VOTE: insomnia

not interested in entertaining this for even a moment.

[u r a person 2]

@rainn we've played together, right?
I won't out or guess

[u r a person 2]

nice =)

Always glad to see you in a list

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler: the gamestate

broken image waaaaah

or was that the point?

[u r a person 2]

derp it was the point

[u r a person 2]

sometimes i type before i speak and embarass myself. I'll show myself out

[u r a person 2]

insomnia, anytime you wanna give me a reason to get off this policy wagon would be fine by me

[u r a person 2]

i don't find much in insomnia's cases compelling, but he's obviously town. One of us is having a bad game - obviously I think it's him~

VOTE: montosh

[u r a person 2]

tbh i feel like quiting this game so hard

i also feel like revealing my main for roster to shut up about my reads

please don't threaten to replace out =(

[u r a person 2]

i don't find much in insomnia's cases compelling, but he's obviously town. One of us is having a bad game - obviously I think it's him~

VOTE: montosh

no u

that's a distinct possibility

if true, let me say in advance,

Well played

[u r a person 2]

i don't find much in insomnia's cases compelling, but he's obviously town. One of us is having a bad game - obviously I think it's him~

VOTE: montosh

Montosh is town 100% let's put a bet on it.

Alch's scum this game.

I would accept that bet except it's explicitly against site rules

[u r a person 2]

i don't feel trying too hard right now anymore so here is my poe

it's not the poe i wanted because i wanted to put more effort on it, but i don't particularly care anymore tbh

town
ceejay

likely town
sky, roster?, urap, insomnia

fos
bambi

likely wolf
mon, alch, lil uzi vet
-------------------
yes, i reconsidered roster, i don't find him particularly wolf anymore.

this is basically where im at except alch is town and cj i don't have a town read on

[u r a person 2]

i believe the 2 wolf are in:

[mon, alch, lil uzi vet, bambi] and i would like the lynches to be more or less in that order although i don't care if mon or alch goes first.

it's also almost guaranteed to be only 2 wolves because mastina reviewed the setup and she particularly give town a lot of balance, so at maximum we could have a traitor here but if we had, we would have a shit ton of PRs and i don't believe in that at all

based on mastina's discussion of recent 13p games with 4 scum, I agree with this assessment. If there is a third scum, there is a lot of town pr

[u r a person 2]

this is basically where im at except alch is town and cj i don't have a town read on

i see where you're coming from in cj

but i don't know, i feel that his posts here are completely out of what i would expect from wolf!ceejay.

I've only played with alch a couple times, and I've never felt like I had a good handle on his alignment

but his analysis here seems really good, and I had basically the opposite reaction to everything in his iso that people have called scummy this gaem

[u r a person 2]

Insomnia’a case on me is absolutely terrible. I’m pretty sure the only reason he’s making all these posts attacking me is because he doesn’t think he can actually defend himself otherwise. Part of his case is trying to say I vote parked on Sky and another part is complaining that I moved off Sky. It can’t be both ways. And if my vote on Sky was so scummy why does he wait until I’m voting him to say something? He actually quoted the post where I explained my vote and why I appealed to both him and sky but instead of realizing that line of thinking comes from Town he just uses it to attack my intelligence. He’s most likely scum who knows he’s caught and is just trying to shout the rest of the thread into submission.

agree except i think he actually thought he got lynched and i buy the "post-lynch" posts and vt claim as genuine and coming from town him

[u r a person 2]

yeah i've gotten that under the radar feel every game from him which is why i don't feel like i never have a solid grip on his alignment

but if you set that aspect aside as a personality trait, then his play this game is downright townie i think

like i legit could be scumsiding here but I'm pretty committed to not lynching alch here day 1 without seeing a compelling case made against him

[u r a person 2]

hey insomnia,

not for nothing but i think that expecting alchemist to panic - as either alignment - is a mistake.

[u r a person 2]

i don't think, right now, in this specific case, you hard defend him as a buddy

this is a legit good read

[u r a person 2]

insomnia and alch,
i want you both to sheep me onto mon, please

[u r a person 2]

Btw I reread and I still couldn’t see a mon case

you should vote there anyway

[u r a person 2]

rainn, sometimes you get pretty tunnely

and sometimes you get kind of lazy once you get a poe

and i mean no disrespect

but i wish you wouldn't vote there

[u r a person 2]

rainn, sometimes you get pretty tunnely

and sometimes you get kind of lazy once you get a poe

i mean

is this about something related to silver

or a box?

It's about the burden of being town and having to avoid scumreading other town.

and yes

[u r a person 2]

Especially when you don’t have a case, you’re voting just because I didn’t do your homework, it’s kind of like I’m the nerd in gymnasium and you’re the bully and you make me do your homework or else you beat me. Translation : I don’t make sky to look scummier based on her latest posts, you push me

the trick is to do the homework once while documenting the encounter with proof

and then forcing them to pay you good $$ to both continue doing their homework and not turning them in as a cheat

[u r a person 2]

super gross

[u r a person 2]

If this flips green, every town on this wagon needs to come into tomorrow with their hat humbly held in their hand

[u r a person 2]

was it not a hammer? im not going back to count

[u r a person 2]

ya'll are fucking infuriating

[u r a person 2]

was it not a hammer? im not going back to count

The post just before had the count.

so it did

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Sky

bad bad vote

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Mon

I think this is L-2.

I will abstain from eating chicken for a while in honor of your vote

[u r a person 2]

I think I know how to push this over the top

*ahem*

Insomnia, if you vote Mon and it flips green, I will address you solely as "Daddy" for the rest of this game.

[u r a person 2]

I feel sorry for Ceejay.

Also I don't understand how anyone has any idea what's been happening.

i mean, it really hasn't been that eventful

We wagoned jay early, and then we wagoned me for unvoting

we talked about that for a while until i called mon scum and insomnia picked a fight with bambi and alch

that led to a basically policy wagon on insomnia which sat for a while so he could afk

then he came back and pushed alch

people sheeped him for god knows what reason, and then saw the light and moved to montosh

there were also a lot of gifs <3

[u r a person 2]

oh there were some fake hammers too

[u r a person 2]

can i retract my town read on ceejay?

yup

[u r a person 2]

I think rainn is saying that you as scum don't defend scum!mon like that

and my understanding is that they are leaving the door open for you to either be town with a correct read or scum white knighting

That's where i'm at anyway

[u r a person 2]

@VV Why is mon town, then?

[u r a person 2]

I think rainn is saying that you as scum don't defend scum!mon like that

and my understanding is that they are leaving the door open for you to either be town with a correct read or scum white knighting

That's where i'm at anyway

Yes this is what I can understand. What I'm pissed at is that I'm bwing confined to this read.

I'm sorry, you're pissed that people are trying to read you based upon your posts and interactions with other players?

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: montosh

A lot of reasons in this iso why other people's opinions are bad, and very little opinion outside of that. I'll figure out how to put it into words better later, but I think this is scum

he spent the first part of the day pushing against reads, which in my experience comes more often from scum

Like, it didn't feel like he was pushing against reads to further his own reads. It felt like he just wanted to inhibit game solving

[u r a person 2]

You were a pretty amazing scum that game Elsa. Hence why you should be lynched!

Too dangerous to leave alive...

If RC had been in this game, this would have set off a 30 page tunnel and for good reason.

It's pure shade

[u r a person 2]

Why was this worth a vote?

too cool for school, i don't care how many games they read

thus, lynch all liars

How do you know Rainn is lying? Like they're actually an alt?

Question posed to undercut a read

[u r a person 2]

i'm not a new player

i've one year of mafia experience in my home site

i'm an honorary shitposter as well and used to shitpost through all the forum boards

Why'd you come here then?

asked a question that was already asked and answered
and had no relevance to the game

[u r a person 2]

Why was it likely that you were going to get wagoned if you unvoted? It seems like a shit wifom case

because this game is wagon heavy, and it was going to be the most obvious action in the thread to look at after dismantling jay's wagon? like, this should be fucking obvious mate

It was a trolly RVS wagon. I'd expect scum to pile on something low-info for town like that, not jump off. Don't see how that's suspicious or would get you targetted.

undercuts a read, but isn't pushing a town read on me

[u r a person 2]

It was a trolly RVS wagon. I'd expect scum to pile on something low-info for town like that, not jump off. Don't see how that's suspicious or would get you targetted.

well, it did get me targeted, so you might want to reconsider your assumptions.

Yeah but you wouldn’t have any idea on what might’ve happened, you can’t predict the future. You’re saying “I knew I was going to get wagonned” when that’s a faulty assumption. You’re using that as a defence.

This basically. Also, there're like two people asking you questions. You're not being targetted. That seems a big stretch.

more undercutting

[u r a person 2]

Very vocal about pushing the quicklynch for no reason and the rest of their posting wasn’t contributing anything. That sort of player is easy to push and could be claimed as a “cut the crap” wagon.

Also you have seen my scumgame before so you’re the last person I’d want to push based on that. Calling yourself an easy push isn’t really a good defense of yourself either because you’re not doing anything to refute the actual scumread on you, you’re just trying to play the victim.

oh shit you might be town

not really defending myself tho? just saying that i could def see scum you make that push

Why does this make you townread Alch?

question posed to undercut a read

[u r a person 2]

Very vocal about pushing the quicklynch for no reason and the rest of their posting wasn’t contributing anything. That sort of player is easy to push and could be claimed as a “cut the crap” wagon.

Also you have seen my scumgame before so you’re the last person I’d want to push based on that. Calling yourself an easy push isn’t really a good defense of yourself either because you’re not doing anything to refute the actual scumread on you, you’re just trying to play the victim.

oh shit you might be town

not really defending myself tho? just saying that i could def see scum you make that push

Why does this make you townread Alch?

aggressiveness seems genuine because it was relatively quick

Some scum are very aggressive. I don't see why that makes a townread.

undercuts yet another read

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Bambi Jay

I'd still like to know where you get this read on urap from? Do you have some meta for that. I see no reason for scum not to be wishy-washy like that.

Frankly Urap doesn't seem the kind of guy to jump on and off his scum partner's wagon immediately. I don't know how your justifying making him a scumread for it.

more undercutting reads

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Bambi Jay

I'd still like to know where you get this read on urap from? Do you have some meta for that. I see no reason for scum not to be wishy-washy like that.

I'm kinda wishy-washy by default but okay. He took the game serious first and seems more then ready to get association tells one way or another. Good for town.

But how does taking the game seriously preclude him from jumping on and off a wagon? I don't see the connection.

i can do this all day

well, at least til the end of his iso

[u r a person 2]

It's the town!mon = scum!me stuff that drives me nuts.

right, and this is a thing we both just agreed isn't happening, which makes your anger confusing

[u r a person 2]

Can you define undercutting a read for me? Is it about making a read cheaper and seem less significant?

yes, in the eyes of other players

and also potentially instilling doubt in the person making the read

[u r a person 2]

Well then since this was an exciting 12 hours it's time for me to go to dreamland. Catch ya folks later.

And I think I'll follow you there now.

this is true of both of these slots

In my experience, feeling the need to tell people when you're leaving the thread is a scum trait

they don't want to be seen as hiding from the thread sometimes

[u r a person 2]

Spoiler: spoiled for long-form undercutting

insomnia, sky, ceejay, urap

i want you to interact with me until you town read me because i want this to be the town block in the game that i'll work with

if there is a wolf between the above players it's prob only one and later we can reevaluate

sure, why is cj town?

i don't want to say the exact reason because wolves are simply going to begin to do what i say i town read/wolf read (

note that mon only starts to "gamesolve" when you call her out

).

but in a more vague way, i would say his entire ISO doesn't seem like wolf!ceejay. not even a single post i would expect him to do as wolf was done.

to be honest i know i said for you to engage me but i'm still trying to figure out how to deal with this, because i'm someone that likes to hold their cards close to their hands until i want to go full steam, but i know i need to create a kind of townblock to make our job easier here. i don't to take hundreds of pages to get a single lynch/flip.

Him. And frankly that had more to do with keeping up with the speed of the game then anything else but okay.

I think it's kinda ridiculous not to explain at least a little why you townread someone. You say that scum'll just start to emulate that but if you already have your "townbloc" why would that matter? I'd like to know why you townread any of these people and why you're not scum trying to buddy them?

And what's all this saying scum!CJ won't do this or that? If you're a new player to this site like you claim then you shouldn't have this kind of meta here. I don't care who you're an alt of but if you are please tell us you are because it's affecting how I read you.

[u r a person 2]

@CJ So now, kindly, explain why Mon is town

[u r a person 2]

I purposefully avoid checking people's meta because a) I wasn't there and b) it's way more work than I can do while still having fun

but if you want to research and make a meta read, I'll listen to it.

[u r a person 2]

it's more than asking questions tho. We all disagree with reads sometimes, and we all put those disagreements into posts. It's the ratio of questions that hinder game solving to posts pushing their own reads and thoughts that I find scummy

[u r a person 2]

ratio of questions/comments, not just questions

[u r a person 2]

like, they're not all questions. some are just "no, that's wrong" basically

[u r a person 2]

Fucking working like a responsible adult,

matey.

... on your pirate ship?

Jk, I can empathize. adulting sucks

[u r a person 2]

Hey URAP, why do ya got Assemble's avatar now?

? I was just looking for a change of pace

I dunno who that is

[u r a person 2]

Hey URAP, why do ya got Assemble's avatar now?

? I was just looking for a change of pace

I dunno who that is

Assemblerotw has the same avatar as you. Just thought it was a nice coincidence.

That man has got great taste ;P

who doesn't love ole blue eyes

I guess I'll have to find something else

[u r a person 2]

obviously, a claim would have been preferred

but i think this flips red anyway

[u r a person 2]

wait, it is a real hammer this time right

[u r a person 2]

No I was already voting Mon

oh, good

let's get a claim then

p.edit
oh
still not gonna lose sleep over it

[u r a person 2]

i really want to see this flip. I feel like if this flips red im playing one of my best games to date

[u r a person 2]

haven't read this day yet

but i pushed a lynch off of one scum and onto another one yesterday which is why I'm alive I think

VOTE: alch

[u r a person 2]

Yesterday, Rainn was ready to lynch alch and I basically begged them off that lynch. Now rainn is dead.

Alch didn't want to vote Montosh and pushed to undercut my case on them as not necessarily coming from scum

[u r a person 2]

further, if you go through Montosh's game, he used the same tone and scummy questioning with every slot except alch and insomnia

[u r a person 2]

Is there a normal role that can kill two slots in one night?

[u r a person 2]

Yeah I'm aware of vig, want sure if there was another option?

[u r a person 2]

This site is being so frustrating today. Thanks for the tip about mobile. Helping a little

[u r a person 2]

then i think everyone should take a gander at alch's play around montosh's wagon yesterday, as well as montosh's play surrounding his slot vs other slots

also if there is a vig, there is almost certainly only one more scum, yea?

[u r a person 2]

also the gamestate yesterday makes sense for scum!alch. There was little to no resistance outside of me to alch's wagon, and at the time montosh was not around.

And the only memorable resistance to montosh's wagon were alch and insomnia, and insomnia hard town read him for like the whole game.

I'm not saying scum!insomnia doesn't hard defend his partner all game (and if alch is town, insomnia is my pick for scum), but I think he's more likely to do it as town.

also ~reasons~ for why i don't think insomnia is scum

[u r a person 2]

roster =(

[u r a person 2]

Does he seem like a partner to Mon?

More on this, I would explicitly rule out you and URAP as partners - I don’t think URAP harbusses nor do you quickhammer a buddy D1 in a game this size.

I want to say Ceejay is Town for how he joined the wagon but I’m not as confident on it.

The other 2 get no Towncred for the flip.

If Alchemist is a weak roll, that only has an action on night 2, then why would he be entertaining the possibility that there are 3 scum? 3 scum would mean that there was a chance that the game could end with a d1 and d2 mislynch (10->8->6, which would be 3v3).

In that world he's, for all intents and purposes, just a miller. Do you really think that town!alch looks at his role and the vig shot and thinks, "yeah town probably has enough power to make 3 scum in a 10p makes sense"

[u r a person 2]

eh i misread the post

[u r a person 2]

If there is a rolecop, they should claim.

Is it a fair assumption that alch is only town in a world where there is a rolecop or similar?

in that case, I think if someone has a role like that, they should claim. If no claim, lynch alch

[u r a person 2]

eh i misread the post

yeah alch, i figured that out

[u r a person 2]

@Alch

What do you think went wrong in your reading of Montosh yesterday. In other words, what mistake in your analysis of that slot do you think led to you not scum reading him?

[u r a person 2]

I just don’t think scum claims all that. IDK.

i dunno man, it's wifom as to whether or not scum!alch would make that claim

and, it's a role that never gets night killed.

so doesn't seem like a terrible claim to me

[u r a person 2]

@alch who did you want to lynch yesterday, again?

[u r a person 2]

Okay, the multitasking only makes sense with a way for town to get a soft red check there, right? Like rolecop

So if you're a role that could have gotten a false result on town!alch please claim.

Additionally, let's get a claim from insomnia (who i believe to be 1-shot vig)

[u r a person 2]

what about the rolecop bit? am i off base there?

[u r a person 2]

Huh. This + a Vigilante + Neighborizor? Weird, but I guess scum don't have a goon at all for balance reasons.

would not encryptor + fruit vendor vs neighborizor + vig be fairly balanced?

[u r a person 2]

I don't see how I can take my vote off of Alch without some sort of claim that shows town could make use of or be deceived by his Multitasking modifier.

[u r a person 2]

I understand that it would be odd for scum!alch to claim multitasking

However, it would be even odder for town to have that modifier without some sort of setup-related reason

[u r a person 2]

WHEN DOES TOWN EVER GET MULTITASKING WITHOUT A SETUP RELATED REASON

[u r a person 2]

It's okay I thought you asked when scum ever makes that statement and I started to have an aneurysm

sorry

[u r a person 2]

To reiterate, so far we know that the following people do not have a role that makes town!alch make sense

Me
Insomnia
Jay
Roster
Sky

If Ceejay doesn't have one either, we're lynching Alch

[u r a person 2]

i don't find much in insomnia's cases compelling, but he's obviously town. One of us is having a bad game - obviously I think it's him~

VOTE: montosh

Montosh is town 100% let's put a bet on it.

Alch's scum this game.

Yeah, in retrospect this whole interaction is really amusing with scum!alch

[u r a person 2]

I'm VT, jay

[u r a person 2]

[quote="In post 989, Alchemist21"][/quote]
with town!alch, I'd say insom or maaybe CJ

But if CJ isn't a role that interacts with your role, you're scum 100% of the time.

[u r a person 2]

uhhh my bad on the uote screwup

[u r a person 2]

I just said if you're town, insomnia is likely scum, and I've been saying it all day, so that comment feels like you're just trying to present as not being survivalistic

[u r a person 2]

Okay so I basically know every role here now. Great.

is one of those rolecop?

[u r a person 2]

If sky had a role that interacted with alch, I think we would know by now based on their recent posts. I'd grab the quote but site is barely working

[u r a person 2]

I just said if you're town, insomnia is likely scum, and I've been saying it all day, so that comment feels like you're just trying to present as not being survivalistic

I’m saying it because I feel like people are dismissing my posts about him and then will probably forget them by tomorrow. Hell, you already forgot what I said about him D1 and had to ask again so why should I have any faith that you or anyone really will listen to me posthumously?

I mean, my very first posts of this day showed that I rememberd your reasoning. I was just giving you an opportunity to add to it and show yourself as town, but you didn't take the opportunity

[u r a person 2]

If I am somehow wrong on Insomnia then I’d guess Skygazer. What I said earlier wasn’t just bluster; I really do usually have scum in my early-mid D1 reads and I’d be surprised if neither is scum.

There’s a very small part of me squinting at Ceejay’s claim but I don’t want to get too wrapped up in paranoia. If Masonizer isn’t Normal for a reason then I doubt a Loyal Neighborizer passes the review process. It seems more likely to me that the people making the Normal list forgot about it. I’ll look to see if I can find discussion on it.

I've personally rolled loyal neighborizor in two separate mini normals

[u r a person 2]

So it seems the mistake was looking for a town! Rolecop

And now we're playing find the rolecop

Considering that, it seems plausible that someone crumbed, and I'll check for that when I have time.
Clearly, as Jay pointed out, it's in the vt claims

[u r a person 2]

I really don't think this is scum insomnia. I'd be more inclined to look at skygazer

[u r a person 2]

Ehh, I fickled up the spec today. Alch can have the insomnia Lynch tomorrow

[u r a person 2]

okay, but if that's true then the game will just end, so i think it makes sense to discuss the possibility that Alch is NOT scum

[u r a person 2]

One of the neighbours is scum then.

could you flesh this out for me please

[u r a person 2]

I don't really believe in scum insomnia

I did promise Alch tho, and he's probably a better player than I am by a fair margin anyway, so that's where I'm going to vote

The only reason I haven't voted is in case someone has had a flash of brilliance and has legit solved the game.

[u r a person 2]

Ceejay is town. We're looking for a VT claim that is covering for a scum rolecop.

That's the only thing that makes sense in this setup. There has to be a reason for the multitask modifier on a town pr, and the only reason I can figure is so that scum can hit them with a check, see that they are multitasking, call them out on being multitasking and get them lynched, confirming their rolecop status and maybe keeping them alive.

I really don't believe that the setup would have that modifier on alch's role UNLESS there were some role that interacted with it. We mass claimed and nobody claimed a role that interacts with it, so someone is lying.

CJ can't be BOTH neighborizer and rolecop because it wouldn't be normal.

CJ is town. get your votes off him

[u r a person 2]

The other possibility is that Ceejay is multitasking scum neighbouriser.

Also you’re still voting Ceejay no?

If asking me, I'm not voting CJ

Please explain how that and other claims would explain Alch being multitasking.

[u r a person 2]

hard disagree w this for reasons i can get into later when im not busy

please do because this is super important to me =)

[u r a person 2]

There is no town rolecop. We mass claimed yesterday.

[u r a person 2]

Have you played in a game where town got a clue like this?

[u r a person 2]

I'm not sure what you mean by false clue.

If you mean that it's unlikely that alch has that role without something to interact with it, then i agree. but i don't think this is what you meant?

[u r a person 2]

im p sure ive seen a game review where a hint like this was included!

I'm going to need to see this to believe it

[u r a person 2]

how is that more likely than scum hiding their rolecop behind a vt claim?

[u r a person 2]

I just don't think it tracks

Personally, I think Sky is the last scum

[u r a person 2]

1 shot vig brings this game to 9p

rolecop + encryptor vs even night fruit vendor + 1 shot loyal neighborizor seems super balanced to me.

[u r a person 2]

this would also allow for your theory of a hint because in this case scum has a multitasking roleblocker most likely

[u r a person 2]

but it would also give scum a slight chance of finding and pushing a lynch on a PR, which kind of evens out the small town benefit of vig

[u r a person 2]

because they could rolecop the FV and say lynch the multitasker!

[u r a person 2]

so FV isn't an investigative, right? It's basically a named townie (but only after night 2)

I don't think 1 shot vig + even night FV vs scum neighborizor is balanced for 10p

Compare it to the newbie queue setups (which in the aggregate are town sided, yes) but there is still a large discrepancy in power between what you're proposing as the setup and those setups.

the neighborizor is town....

[u r a person 2]

well it's not lylo. not sure why'd you expect a quick hammer from scum here?

[u r a person 2]

@sky where do you want to lynch today?

[u r a person 2]

no posts in 29 hours??

HELLOOOOOOO

[u r a person 2]

i wasn't callng you out specifically sky

[u r a person 2]

Why is Urap not dead if he caught scum tbh

yesterday eod i said i was voting you, so

[u r a person 2]

The fact that I’m not being pushed yet by urap is iffy. Talks with Alchemist that “If you are town then insomnia is scum” yesterday, and now he says “I think insomnia is town but I promised alch I would lynch” to then saying “I think Sky is scum”. There’s definitely an agenda behind this. And it comes down to who the final 3 players are going to be.

did you even read my eod yesterday? =/

[u r a person 2]

Ehh, I fickled up the spec today. Alch can have the insomnia Lynch tomorrow

[u r a person 2]

i don't think that looks like me saying "if alch town, insomnia scum"

do you?

[u r a person 2]

I really don't think this is scum insomnia. I'd be more inclined to look at skygazer

post right before then

[u r a person 2]

so please just stop with the misrep

[u r a person 2]

also im fucking town mate. I pushed the d1 lynch off of alch onto montosh.

like get real

p.edit note the post numbers and QQ some

[u r a person 2]

im not going to continue this. what you're suggesting is absurd. If you can get me lynched, this town deserves a loss

like, im so far out of my scum range, im on another planet.

[u r a person 2]

also im fucking town mate. I pushed the d1 lynch off of alch onto montosh.

like get real

p.edit note the post numbers and QQ some

You did this in that Micro game. (Well you were trying to do it the other way round but y’know)

what did I do?

[u r a person 2]

BTW, presenting a skewed, misreppy narrative to push a read is a town tell for insomnia =/ or at the very least, it's nai

[u r a person 2]

why is skygazer scum? the case on me i understand from you. im not sure i get the switch to sky

[u r a person 2]

what did I do?

You and the RC/Skitter hydra were hard-bussing each other.

i never even voted there, lol That's a misread and a half

At no point was the plan to ever lynch the other. The plan was for our slot to be lynched D2 and for RC to carry it home

[u r a person 2]

I don't really believe in scum insomnia

I did promise Alch tho, and he's probably a better player than I am by a fair margin anyway, so that's where I'm going to vote

The only reason I haven't voted is in case someone has had a flash of brilliance and has legit solved the game.

urap what happened to this?

what do you mean what happened to it?

[u r a person 2]

Ceejay is town. We're looking for a VT claim that is covering for a scum rolecop.

That's the only thing that makes sense in this setup. There has to be a reason for the multitask modifier on a town pr, and the only reason I can figure is so that scum can hit them with a check, see that they are multitasking, call them out on being multitasking and get them lynched, confirming their rolecop status and maybe keeping them alive.

i feel like an ungated rolecop + daytalk vs just a fruit vendor/1-shot masonizer/1-shot vig would be fairlyyyyy unbalanced. and like role cop is such a scummy role and wouldn't really have any synergy against that town setup because of the one shots. like having a game designed specifically for a rolecop to just claim their rolecop to get one town player lynched (and that'd only be if they investigated that town player) just wouldn't be good game design. besides, claiming a rolecop guilty then having that person flip town would make town seem wayyy too stacked for a rolecop to seem like a town role. that's why i hard disagreed with this post. still need to dig into completed normal reviews to find that game with a similar hint but it's definitely something schadd/mastina would do

what if it were a gated rolecop? say, 1 shot~ I'm not dismissing what you're saying, btw. You might be on to something

[u r a person 2]

Oh wow wtf I thought this game just started and there's only one page and I voted Montosh off reading page 1

when you voted montosh off first page, was it an rvs vote or were you scum reading him off the first page?

[u r a person 2]

One of the neighbours is scum then.

I asked you to flesh this out yesterday, but then twilight ended and it never happened. Could you flesh it out today?

I'm asking because if you were on to something, it changes how I view:

One of the neighbours is scum then.

Anyone ever tell you you're an annoying fuck?

[u r a person 2]

anyways everyone should look at montosh's iso, there's practically nothing about ceejay, and ceejay's L-1 vote on montosh looks super sus with how he goes out of his way to say he wasn't townreading montosh and how there's never any actual reason stated by cj ever to scumread montosh

feels like empty distancing

Heh. I just did that again, actually. Yesterday when i said it was insomnia and alch that he didn't talk about, I think I missed CJ because of his defense of mon and because mon did most of his posting before cj had made his first post

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: bambi jay

L-1 babyyyyyyy

this feels townie