Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[Egix96]

Can I just point out the fact Sash has stopped trying to solve game and been hiding behind my vote for ages. Sash will do more than rui, Sash will post content they said.

The three lynches du jour are Skitter, Ausuka and Egix.

Ausuka seems the most scummy one but not by much.

I reread her iso a couple of times over the last few days and I think I begin to have an idea what's down.
Egix seems town. I read his iso and it seems mostly clean to me. He also tried to meta me to know me, which is towny

Skitter is the one that could the most be scum, but she appears more towny than Ausuka to me.

Her massive iso gave me a headache.

I don't find anyone in here particularly scummy, but knowing this, I think I'd lynch Skitter because of strategy but Ausuka might be a reasonable choice too.

Are you trying to say that skitter reads more towny than Ausuka but skitter has more scum equity? I kinda get the feeling that you're waffling here but I'm not sure if I follow.

[Inferno390]

I am totally disgusted by the way Gamr has done that claim. Now I get shot at night and both he AND I die.
We need a protective on me tonight. If there is not a protective tonight...
Sorry town that Gamr thinks he’s so much better than everyone else in game that he thinks he needs to target a general townread.

But I kind of have to believe the claim here, because it’s what makes since given the “I’ll have evidence later” BS he was giving at the start of the day.
And if Bob is clear, that leaves Exil, UR2, skitter, Ausuka, Gamma, Sash, Egix?
I think we lynch in Egix, UR2, Sash today.

[Sashaddin]

Are you trying to say that skitter reads more towny than Ausuka but skitter has more scum equity? I kinda get the feeling that you're waffling here but I'm not sure if I follow.

Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking. I could say it as "I'm more curious to see Skitter flip than Ausuka". I feel we would get more info by flipping Skitter who interacted with many people, Ausuka was more discreet. Also, while Skitter appears more towny, she could easily be deceiving us by being scum.
I'm not sure if this is waffling?

[skitter30]

No offense but that's a pretty awful take

[skitter30]

Gamma Emerald replaces High Risk Gamble

Hey gamma, it's been a while

[Sashaddin]

No offense but that's a pretty awful take

None taken. I get pretty weird ideas sometimes. I don't seem to see the game like most, and in a wrong way.
Anyways, I still like it or I wouldn't be here.

[skitter30]

Also, while Skitter appears more towny, she could easily be deceiving us by being scum.

It's specifically this bit, you're effectively saying you're ok with a paranoia lynch on someone you think is townie

(The fact that it's me isnt particularly relevant)

Also if peopke want to wagon me i'd prefer it happen today than friday or saturday because i can't necessarily follow along on those days and won't be able to claim if i need to

[Egix96]

I am totally disgusted by the way Gamr has done that claim. Now I get shot at night and both he AND I die.
We need a protective on me tonight. If there is not a protective tonight...
Sorry town that Gamr thinks he’s so much better than everyone else in game that he thinks he needs to target a general townread.

But I kind of have to believe the claim here, because it’s what makes since given the “I’ll have evidence later” BS he was giving at the start of the day.
And if Bob is clear, that leaves Exil, UR2, skitter, Ausuka, Gamma, Sash, Egix?

I think we lynch in Egix, UR2, Sash today.

Makes a change from:

Okay

I think Egix is town.

Also skimming back through I remembered UR2 also did the weird move to Rui wagon thing HRG did.
So maybe I look at UR2 after all of this?
Really starting to second guess my second guesses.

AFAICT your only reference to me in between was you responding to one of my older posts ITG, so I'm not seeing the progression here.

Are you trying to say that skitter reads more towny than Ausuka but skitter has more scum equity? I kinda get the feeling that you're waffling here but I'm not sure if I follow.

Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking. I could say it as "I'm more curious to see Skitter flip than Ausuka". I feel we would get more info by flipping Skitter who interacted with many people, Ausuka was more discreet. Also, while Skitter appears more towny, she could easily be deceiving us by being scum.
I'm not sure if this is waffling?

Ah, so it's not that skitter has more scum equity per se, but rather that you would gain more info from her interactions with other players? I see.
And yeah I thought that the two statements I bolded in your 1514 seemed to contradict each other, that's what I meant by waffling.

[Exilon]

I finished reading Ausuka. Overall, it feels genuine and townie, and genuinely lost Day 2, whereas Day 1 there's a bigger effort in analysis; and there's a reduced number of things that ping me the wrong way. The few that do, however, do so strongly, and pose a few questions.

Ok:

I don't think the Ruirui jump Day 1 is indicative of anything really.

To me,

the strongest argument for Ausuka being scum

is that she quickly distanced herself from scumhunting / pushing actually "strong" slots (I'm talking about the vote on skitter early day 1 that was followed by a shift to Sash) and seems to be confortable being indecisive between what are arguable lynch baits like Sash and Bob. There's some evidence I find compelling for this narrative (in Day 2), mentioned below.

Her vote and push Day 1 on Sash is pretty reasonable to me and 292 is an interesting VCA with a lot of theorycrafting which isn't all terribly valuable without much follow up from Ausuka in the future and I find it strange that there wasn't a similar effort made for RuiRui's wagon which in hindsight makes me feel this was mostly made for show.

There's another thing that jumped at me while reading her ISO and that is a very distinct silence in regards to any type of read on Egix. By this I mean that you can find Egix being mentioned a bit, and interacted with, and at one point paired up with "possible scum teams" (see 292 above) and yet Ausuka never once takes this lead and tries to go further with it, and this dissonance is especially prevalent in 1180.

Context: in 1305 Egix appears as "would lynch" right after Bob and even Skitter. At this point Egix hasn't said much in terms of interaction or been pushed outisde my own case on him.

And yet, 1180 says "exi feels town". Ok, so I'm town and I'm voting for a guy that you probably want to sort and never had any particular townread for, and you're not taking the chance to wagon him, why? There's no townie reason to not do so, unless he just shows in 1305 as a scapegoat and fabrication.

This post is relevant to me for another reason, and that is that it doesn't seem coherent with the way Ausuka judged Bob's case and reasoning. The way she jumps on him, when he seems to be clearly misunderstanding, isn't toally in line to the type of benefit of doubt she appears to give me. This is obviously a stretch to me, but mostly this is the type of thing that I feel Ausuka has been latching on in order to justify a vote.

Sash Day 1, Sash early Day 2 with the whole "Garmr isn't dead therefore scum" thing, Bob's rundown case, to me it feels as Scum!Ausuka almost being relieved that there's something she can argue on and vote people for, whereas town Ausuka would have probably been looking elsewhere and acting on some of her gut feelins, say Egix and even Skitter.

On the other hand, there's a level of incoherence here stemming from Ausuka realizing that Bob being scum probably means that Sash isn't, and that her whole day 1 crumbles to dust. I feel scum would be paying attention to this and probably would have highlighted it sooner but I'm also open to interpretations of this.


Ausuka, a few questions:
a) Why din't you wagon Egix when you read my case on him?
b) what's your *actual* read on Egix? Why?
c) Who are currently your strongest townreads, and why?

[Exilon]

I wasn't able to get to Bob yet and that's probably only happening tomorrow real time.

[Detective Pikachu]

I am totally disgusted by the way Gamr has done that claim. Now I get shot at night and both he AND I die.
We need a protective on me tonight. If there is not a protective tonight...

I don't understand why you both die if you're town?

I don't mind your slot being protected but I also don't really want to leash protectives based on garmr tbh, but yeah I think protectives on inferno would be better than protectives on me atm.

altho tbh that is a kinda wifomy way to respond to his claim lol, someone makes a mech claim and your first thought is what protectives should do, not whether you buy it or not?

[Detective Pikachu]

I know you talk about the claim later just weird that's what you open the post with

[Gamma Emerald]

Inferno you're moving a little too fast with your reads imo

ya think? recent posts are not from a town perspective

That is not what Rui said at all. Great shade though. Much wow.

No no, he's not saying what he thought Rui said. He's saying something different entirely. My understanding of it:

Rui: "Inferno, I think you're forming reads too quickly for this early in the game"
urap: "Never mind that, he's not posting like town anyway"

Okay.
But he’s still warping what Rui said to throw shade at me. Which I am not liking.

I feel like Inferno's point here is valid

Spoiler: post 113

This sudden voting on CDB feels weird to me. Starting with this;

VOTE: skitter

Why wouldn't you vote for Ausuka here instead of keeping your vote on a random person who hadn't yet posted?

I literally held off shifting from my rvs to skitter as well. By that same accord would I be scummy as well if not why am I different if so why didn't you mention me?

Something doesn't make sense here. You seem to be referring to post

VOTE: ruirui

This is the kind of rvs post i can see scum making ^^^^

(i'm not explicitly calling her scum for this rn, but noting that it comes from scum more than town imo)

Personally I wouldn't of put this point down. You could of left it to see if someone did have that reaction and have them sort out their alignment.

The fact you put that there feels like your cutting off a potential conversation line and seems a bit like a preemptive defence. I'm still deciding if that's scummy or null so

but that seems different. you were still deciding if skitter was scummy or not for it. So that's the answer to the question. so what's your question to CDB about, exactly?

Then in post 96,, you say that in the interaction between skitter and CDB, it came across to you that CDB was scummy.

So that's the first vote;

---

Then in post 95 bob says CDB is suspicious, then 97 says urap2 feels scummy as well.
But then votes CDB in the very next post, right after Garmr does. This happened 3 minutes later to his other post, and 4 other minutes after Garmr's vote.
It's almost as if Garmr's vote caused bob to vote too.

---

The third vote comes later from Egix, who in

i don't particularly like this post, the first line kinda feels like you felt the need to randomly share that you're town which feels a little ????? and meh

yikes

VOTE: egix

If you were town, I would find it pretty hard to believe that you were genuinely astonished to be so (you know what the odds are every time you join a game!), especially given that apparently you've been scum in other game formats anyway. Maybe there'd be a "huh, OK then!" to yourself upon reading your role PM but caring so much that you brought it into the thread in such an overblown "wow, can you believe it!?" sort of way? No, it doesn't feel right.

I made my opening line OTT on purpose because I knew that people would react to it, and I hoped to gauge people's alignments early on based on said reactions. So:

- skitter's reaction reads slightly towny to me, my gut tells me it's more like awkward town than waffly scum

- urap2's is null I'm afraid

- But CDB feels like he's being too aggressive here. Not sure if the overexplaininess (my laptop redlines that, is that even a word?) is normal for him but to me it feels like scum taking the bait. Like, if he's scum, he's probably thinking "oh, awkward town, better push on him".

goes back to his initial post, and scumreads CDB based on his reaction to that post, for being overaggressive. Then supposedly ctaches up to the rest of the game, posts about a different subject, and then votes him 3 posts later, without more reason.

This feels contrived in a town minded way.

Also it seems like me and bob are in sync. He is town in my eyes.

Well this is convenient.

i'm getting some buddying-y vibes from you

@exilon

I don't know what kind of comment you want on this

also i dont' think that scum!inferno really thinks to randomly make that post about uzi there really

My point was precisely that it wasn't rational (let me post this here), it was emotional ("I want to post about something else that lets me feel closer to town")

Anyway, does it invalidate the remaining case?

Liking this. Very rational approach.

See your not addressing why I think your logic is circular.
The reason I think your logic is circular is because you’re using the fact that you think I’m scum to say that my post was aimed to look Town.
X is scum
Therefore this thing X did is scum motivated or is done because of scum reasons
So X is scum. Die, scum!

Or something like that.
And what would make you think I felt encroached and under pressure. There wasn’t a wagon on me, the two people scumreading me I’m already interacting with, and no one is pushing me except my scumreads. What pressure?
And what exactly am I backpedaling from?

I'd call that confirmation bias over circular logic but whatever

[bob3141]

Ausuka, scum wants to look townie, not lynch town, on day 1. I'm struggling to buy that town you asks as weak of questions as you do in 1410. "why did scum do the thing?" " to look townie"

Saying why would scum do that almost always is answered by that, and I feel like you know that

i think you're completely misunderstanding what i'm saying. i'm not arguing i'm town for voting ruirui. bob is saying that scum!me would be more likely to do that but the scum motivation isn't really there for that. sure, scum could do that, but so could town, and i don't think it makes sense as a reason for scumreading me.

What im saying is that i reckon, either you , usrp2 or sash have to be scum. I prety sure at most one scum could of avoided being on the lynch. (this bit ill go into later)*



Your response to the questioning over why you changed to Rui does feel genuine. Its not the argument but its presentation that feels genuine. The argument could either be townies plan or a scums pre rehearsed reasoning.

Now my question to you is if you are infact town. Who on teh rui lynch do you think is the most likely to be scum and if there is infact one scum in the grouping your in. If you are in fact town out of urp2 and sach do you feel its most likely to be?

The bit i feel makes it genuine is I see the a sort of hint of exasperation in it that very hard to fake.




*That bit ill talk about day 3 but to suffice to say if one mafia wasnt on the rui lynch. I would expect it to be skitter as start of game he pushed on rui but by end of game he had switched to sach after that voted had died and the vote on rui had gathered momentum. But for no prefer to catch the one or two scum that atleast must been on Rui's lynch.

[Inferno390]

Egix, the reason I have you is because I don’t see skitter, Exil, or Gamma happening today, and I don’t think Ausuka will be a productive lynch.
We can throw here in there if it becomes necessary, but it’s going to be a bit of a stretch for me.

@DP:
Think about it this way
Assume Gamr is telling the truth.

If I am scum:
Gamr dies, Bob dies (that’s who I would shoot), I am confscum, prot wastes use.

If I am town:
Gamr lives, I live, Bob most likely lives, and prot (potentially) wastes use.

So I will admit that’s it’s a gamble. But it’s either one confirmed scum and two confirmed dead townies, or a living three person townblock from which we can solve the game. So the proc needs to decide which is better.

[Gamma Emerald]

72 comes from town I think.

Like it actually looks scummy af

but

I think it actually reads townie from some new players.

Very much looks like an attempt to pretend to defend soemone

but

at the same time keep using the"

but .....

"

As well as trying to emphasize possible scummy actions

but

raising this in a pretend defense. So If i got lynched and untimatly revealed as town you could simply say you dint think i was scum and could hold no blame

____

I think you are trying hard on this one, throwing shade on URAP2. Your argument made no sense too, you are using the very same word you are suspicious of.

VOTE: Bob3141

This feels quite pedantic

So in your opinion hypocrisy is a scummy trait? Bob is town in my book.

Hypocrisy should come from scum, yes. As for my read, it's still early game I do with what I see. Later in the game I might not have considered that. Reading is hard Day 1.

Why would you not push hypocrisy like that in mid to late game?

I think I'm going to quit playing Mafia, I always end up being lynched in the first days and that doesn't help town at all.

>_>

If you don't lynch me first I'm sure I can appear towny

Hm. Missed this going through, something to keep in mind

yeah just going to note down these points

1-scum have day chat (noticed that due to what I thought excellion gamble was)
2-No one has calling sash town
3-The generic response I don't know if I want to jump on the wagon. With no reason not to scum read sash or town read them.
4-Been ages with out a meaningful post
5-wagon starts to gain steam out of no where.
6-A lot of my town reads are on sash wagon including confirmed town and myself.

May be a bit premature but with all these points combined I think scum stayed silent on the sash wagon to see if it would dissolve naturally and rui rui was their planned counterwagon in their day chat.

Feeling like I agree with this rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Reads at the bottom of page 10

Town: Exilon, Bob, Garmr
Light Town: Ausuka, Skitter
Null: Egix
Keep an eye on these: Inferno, URAP2
Scum: Sasha

VOTE: Sashaddin

[bob3141]

So to put this back into its context, saying it is NAI is precisely what he's doing here. He's not discrediting you. The post you quoted is a reply to me where I said that it was town-indicative, and he said "no, scum also do that".

You're right about what I said - that scum does it, too - but let me be clear.

I think the motivations for this kind of play

-analysis without conclusion
-drawn out over time
-without wanting to discuss it before it's "finished"


all comes from scum more often than town. I AM saying I believe it to be scum-indicative.

Then your barking up the wrong tree as that is just my style playing mafia.

And on the last point. It was going to be all in one big post but mafiascum is always cutting out for me. So I made several smaller ones rather tahn one bog one to avoid getting to the end of only to lose it all. When the webpage fails when i press sumbit. Forgoten how many times i lost what i was going to type in deifferent locations. Usualy with me replacing what migth ahve been 400-800 words with a single sentance.

[Sashaddin]

Ah, so it's not that skitter has more scum equity per se, but rather that you would gain more info from her interactions with other players? I see.

It seems I don't understand "scum equity". I thought my reasoning was about scum equity. Can someone teach me in a few lines?

[Inferno390]

So to put this back into its context, saying it is NAI is precisely what he's doing here. He's not discrediting you. The post you quoted is a reply to me where I said that it was town-indicative, and he said "no, scum also do that".

You're right about what I said - that scum does it, too - but let me be clear.

I think the motivations for this kind of play

-analysis without conclusion
-drawn out over time
-without wanting to discuss it before it's "finished"


all comes from scum more often than town. I AM saying I believe it to be scum-indicative.

Then your barking up the wrong tree as that is just my style playing mafia.

And on the last point. It was going to be all in one big post but mafiascum is always cutting out for me. So I made several smaller ones rather tahn one bog one to avoid getting to the end of only to lose it all. When the webpage fails when i press sumbit. Forgoten how many times i lost what i was going to type in deifferent locations. Usualy with me replacing what migth ahve been 400-800 words with a single sentance.

Super oof

[bob3141]

whats oof mean

[Garmr]

VOTE: Sash

I'm happy lynching sash.

Considering looking at the vote count

Sashaddin (5):

u r a person 2 159, Ausuka 162,

Lil Uzi Vert 173, bob3141 180, Garmr 181

[

b]RuiRui (4):[/b] ChannelDelibird

174, skitter30 201, Egix96 233, Exilon 234

u r a person 2 (1):

Inferno390 79

Exilon (1):

cbynumber 24

bob3141 (1):

Sashaddin 151

Not Voting:

RuiRui

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

3 confirmed town were at the end of the sash wagon. the counter wagon was confirmed town.

It's clear that atleast one scum has to be on the latter end of the Rui wagon and only 1 OF URAP2 or aus can be scum it's possible they are all town. If they are majority town(since only 1 at most can be scum at this point) that enforces that the counter wagon was pushed by scum hard. Meaning that didn't want sash lynched.

There's only two reason why they would do this Sash is scum or sash is so bad this game his basically honorary scum members.

[bob3141]

Can I just point out the fact Sash has stopped trying to solve game and been hiding behind my vote for ages. Sash will do more than rui, Sash will post content they said.

The three lynches du jour are Skitter, Ausuka and Egix.

Ausuka seems the most scummy one but not by much. I reread her iso a couple of times over the last few days and I think I begin to have an idea what's down.
Egix seems town. I read his iso and it seems mostly clean to me. He also tried to meta me to know me, which is towny
Skitter is the one that could the most be scum, but she appears more towny than Ausuka to me. Her massive iso gave me a headache.

I don't find anyone in here particularly scummy, but knowing this, I think I'd lynch Skitter because of strategy but Ausuka might be a reasonable choice too.

This and other things just makes me feel i was originally right about you being scum. And that the reason your lynch failed was simply because your partners pushed a counterwagon.

After ausuka responses, Im feeling now he is the least likely of what i identfied as group B to be scum. That being ausuka , you(sach) and urp2.

Now to your post. You say you dont find anyone in that list particularly scummy yet in 1302 you say you could see ausuka as scum. Which to me feels alittle contradictory. So as i read it, You find ausuka the most scummy of 3 players you dont find to be scummy yet you can see him as scum.

So if no one in that list strikes you as scummy then why did you say you could see Ausuka as scum?

-----

Second apart from your push on both me and gamr I have not seen you enquire anywhere else. This level of focus seems very odd. You talk about saying you could vote for ausuka or skitter yet nothing there is original there.


You gave no details about what you read in ausuka iso. So that has no substance
Both egix and skitter. you did the same - no substance


And there are few players Ive not seen you intereact with like gamble. Its why for a bit i thought he was your partner as i couldnt see any serous attempts from you to read him. Felt to me like scum trying to avoid associations. So my question is what do you think about every player and what made you think that. And not just e.g. you read there iso. What in theer iso stuck out to you

---

Thirdly I dont like how you seem to be offering your vote for two players in the same post as you just said they dont look scummy to you. If they dont look scummy to you why woudl you think lynching some you dont think is town is reasonable or a good strategy

It exactly matches you reasoning for killing Rui. Every lynch you seem to say ok it will give us info.


This all makes me I was right day 1 about you being scum

VOTE: sach

[tris]

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[tris]

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