micro 871: mystery box of silver 4 (G O)

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Post Post #1050 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:19 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1039, nomnomnom wrote:the thing is that this lylo is the result of someone's insanity and whoever the scum here was a little bit too high on crack.
And honestly I'm sorry to say but you fill the bill a bit too well friend.
Except every fucking scumgame of mine ever proves that as scum I'm the polar fucking opposite of "high on crack".

I never make fucking insane plays as scum.

I've linked to my scumgames.

Find. one. fucking. insane. play. in. any. of. them.

You won't because they don't fucking exist.

The closest you'll find is me openly claiming scum when I had a cop guilty on my slot and KNEW I had a cop guilty on my slot so I did the one thing I knew would discredit the cop (which led to that cop not being believed and almost mislynched!). Which wasn't an insane play; it was a fucking perfect read of the situation, correctly identifying the cop guilty and correctly devising on the spot the ONE counterplay that would ensure the cop wasn't seen as conftown after said guilty. Smart play != insane play and that was as smart of a play as humanly possible; there was literally no more perfect maneuver to make there.

(Incidentally. That sort of play? Similar shit I pulled on Mephistophanes. Nancy has PTSD from that game because I hard-framed her as my scumbuddy with my roleclaim. :P I used the scum-exclusive knowledge as a half-realclaim, and I knew that Mephistophanes would back me up on it because I knew Mephistophanes would know the info I claimed was legitimate. Good times, good times. But again, I digress.)
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Post Post #1051 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:22 am

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I mean if we come down to it, nightkilling the person you were going to 1v1 is not that insane of an idea if you know you're going to lose against the guy. Just throwing that out there. It's still a bit cray-cray but not as insane as say, lying about information, or mechanics, or abilities :roll:
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Post Post #1052 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:24 am

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You have so little conviction about that by the way that you basically accepted those as gospel yesterday and that you are only reputting this scenario on the table simply because it's your last bullet here and you made a gambit that failed to acknowledge that mechanics put my slot as conftown while trying to make a gambit that, in your own words, "would spew you as conftown and have hammer today".
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Post Post #1053 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:26 am

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And trust me, I don't need to look at your scum games to tell you that there must be a sparkle of insanity in scum!mastina too. scum!mastina is not this untouchable unlynchable impossible-to-argue-against perfect and calculated figure. That's simply how you see it. If that was more of your reputation in general I definitely would have never heard of you because of the scummies nomination ;)
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Post Post #1054 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:31 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1040, mastina wrote:Tell me I'm fucking wrong.
That there is an objective way to prove that everything nom claims is true.

But let's say that nom didn't lie--that there was in fact an extra PT. Why does that PT need to have been between nom and Chito and Nuko? nom, as scum with Chito and Nuko,
has a scum PT with Chito and Nuko in which they can fake town interactions
. Even then, when nom and Chito and Nuko 'paraphrased' the content of their PT, they kept it incredibly vague. Between the two of them, you have less than three paragraphs describing the contents of that alleged PT.

Why couldn't that extra PT have been CheekyTeeky-nom, with nom simply lying once CheekyTeeky was confirmed dead after the nightkill?
Speaking of this.

I wanted to come back to this and show them their paraphrase.

Contrast my paraphrase of the PT, timestamps and content and all, with this:
In post 867, nomnomnom wrote:I thought he was pretty obviously bullshitting me in the PT so I targeted myself with the action while he targeted Chutes. I won the roll, so I received that information. It's information about the PT mechanics of this game. I'll extrapolate in a little bit.
In post 876, Chito and Nuko wrote:I got put in a PT with nom last Night, and we had to decide collectively who give some unknown information to.
Based on what happened in the PT I suspect that nom/Chtues are buddies but I plan to do a hard reset today
In post 945, nomnomnom wrote:Basically I asked him what he wanted to do and he said that he was the least likely to be nightkilled and that's why he wanted to give the info to Chutes. He also said that the vengekill was "to ensure that urap was never getting nightkilled tonight" which sounded like absolute moonlogic. I basically stopped listening there because it implied no reads whatsoever and I couldn't see that kind of shit coming from something else than a scum mindset, because that prediction sounded pretty out there imo. That's pretty much what happened in the PT.

With that thought in mind it seemed most likely that he was trying to give the information to his scum partner and drown it, which lead me to believe coming in today alongside the info I received that the pair was C/N-Chutes. And I still believe it's a strong possibility in case I am wrong about Mastina. F3 is not going to be easy methinks.
This is literally the extent of what was said on the subject.

What time did this discussion happen?

What account was the posts made under?

Was a hydra partner mentioned/referenced?

What posts did NOM make in there?

How many posts were in the PT?

There's no details there and the few which are there, could be straight from the scum PT.





In post 914, nomnomnom wrote:It's entirely possible that a PT was created earlier with Porky, right?
Unrelated, but interesting tidbit from nom's iso; nom themselves acknowledges that there could be other PTs made right fucking here.
In post 925, nomnomnom wrote:I'm just trying to think who the partner is rn because whenever we end today scums should be making a watch PT and kill the person that was put in the hood with them and then we are going to end with a rocky F3.
nom set up for the scenario of "mastina is scum who killed the other member of the PT" here.
nom was setting up for today. nom was setting the groundwork for a D4 lylo. nom was laying down the suspicion yesterday for follow-through today.
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Post Post #1055 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:34 am

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In post 1054, mastina wrote:In post 914, nomnomnom wrote:
It's entirely possible that a PT was created earlier with Porky, right?
Unrelated, but interesting tidbit from nom's iso; nom themselves acknowledges that there could be other PTs made right fucking here.
In post 925, nomnomnom wrote:
I'm just trying to think who the partner is rn because whenever we end today scums should be making a watch PT and kill the person that was put in the hood with them and then we are going to end with a rocky F3.
nom set up for the scenario of "mastina is scum who killed the other member of the PT" here.
nom was setting up for today. nom was setting the groundwork for a D4 lylo. nom was laying down the suspicion yesterday for follow-through today.
If that was really my plan do you really think I would point at that possibility casually?

Yesterday I still had suspicions that Otter and you could be a scumteam, that's why I brainstormed this before basically trusting my gut and voting C/N. That was within the context of D3. If that was my plan, outing it is basically suicide. You think I'm a suicidal player? Does that really fit your observation of me this game?
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Post Post #1056 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:37 am

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In post 1054, mastina wrote:This is literally the extent of what was said on the subject.

What time did this discussion happen?

What account was the posts made under?

Was a hydra partner mentioned/referenced?

What posts did NOM make in there?

How many posts were in the PT?

There's no details there and the few which are there, could be straight from the scum PT.
That makes no difference.

Logically speaking the amount of details given doesn't matter at all given that you have 2 days to come up with them, doctor them, change them at will, make sure it fits a narrative, etc.

My lack of detail is not scum indicative. There's no point sharing those details unless someone asks for them, but you did this proactively to prove your invented narrative, which is scummy.
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Post Post #1057 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:37 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1041, nomnomnom wrote:I'm really flattered you think I am this good as scum to come up with the idea of lying about being put in a PT, or implying I could create a new mechanic on the fly without sweating at all. But the thing is that it's not what happened.
Those things aren't necessary.
Lying about who you were in a PT with is doable.
The others are ideas that you might not come up with on your own but are perfectly able to cook up with the aide of both BNL and Krazy, two players who as scum are going to be able to come up with ideas like that. You need not mastermind a plot to partake in one.
In post 1041, nomnomnom wrote:Because if I really am scum here there is no reason to make up anything.
And yet you think I made up things when I have even more fucking reason to not make up anything.
In post 1041, nomnomnom wrote:town!mastina and town!chutes were already at each other's throats and I just had to nightkill otter. But that didn't happen.
Problem with that.
Putting town!me and town!Parachutes in the same PT means that you don't know if we're protecting LuckyOtter--and I
had already been on record as previously protecting LuckyOtter
.

As scum you had EVERY reason to suspect I'd be protecting LuckyOtter last night.

This also explains why no watcher, why it was the rolestopper.

If you killed LuckyOtter and there was a guilty on you, then you blow that 1v1 between Parachutes and I.
In post 1041, nomnomnom wrote:All it comes down to really is analyzing what was done this game, and all the facts point at you even if we remove everything about PTs.
Yes.
Analyzing the game.
And what was fucking done.
Points to me being town on literally every fucking metric especially disregarding the PTs.

What makes you town besides your claim to have been in a PT with scum?
Name. one. thing.

What makes me town besides my claim to have been in the rolestop PT with LuckyOtter, seeing LuckyOtter self-protecting, and LuckyOtter having died?
You fucking ranted at me that I was giving reasons for that shit instead of other things so I've given plenty.
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Post Post #1058 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:38 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1045, nomnomnom wrote:
In post 1036, nomnomnom wrote:
In post 1032, mastina wrote:Because there IS a guarantee that there was a PT made:
That's a misrep.

I never said no PT was made, I said that the PT didn't have to be a rolestopping one. Nuance.
In post 1044, mastina wrote:
In post 1037, nomnomnom wrote:And why did you do it while misrepping my statements lol?
Saying I misrepped your statements is, itself, misrepping
my
statement; there was no misrep in that post.
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Post Post #1059 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:39 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1049, nomnomnom wrote:Honestly I just think you were scared of losing that 1v1 against chutes so you tried something really unhinged instead and see where that leads you.
Me?

Lose a fucking 1v1.

Against.

Of all fucking people.

PARACHUTES?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah no.
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Post Post #1060 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:40 am

Post by nomnomnom »

In post 1057, mastina wrote:Problem with that.
Putting town!me and town!Parachutes in the same PT means that you don't know if we're protecting LuckyOtter--and I had already been on record as previously protecting LuckyOtter.

As scum you had EVERY reason to suspect I'd be protecting LuckyOtter last night.

This also explains why no watcher, why it was the rolestopper.

If you killed LuckyOtter and there was a guilty on you, then you blow that 1v1 between Parachutes and I.
Occam's razor implies that if a scenario makes no sense with me being scum then it simply means I am not scum, instead of assuming I am scum and fitting a narrative that loosely fits, which is what you're doing.
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Post Post #1061 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:41 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1051, nomnomnom wrote:I mean if we come down to it, nightkilling the person you were going to 1v1 is not that insane of an idea if you know you're going to lose against the guy.
Yeah.
"if" I'd lose.

Against fucking Parachutes.

:lol:
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Post Post #1062 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:42 am

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Here comes the scum ego :P
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Post Post #1063 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:42 am

Post by nomnomnom »

It's okay you're still going to lose so it doesn't change much.
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Post Post #1064 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:46 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1052, nomnomnom wrote:you basically accepted those as gospel yesterday
Yes because you were my strongest townread and I was dead-certain the scumteam was C/N-Parachutes.

Why the fuck would I doubt the info when I thought you were town?

Of course I fucking believed the information, I had no reason NOT to believe the information.

I had no reason to think you were scum.

I had no reason to think LuckyOtter was scum.

The game was solved; it was Chito and Nuko-Parachutes.
In post 1052, nomnomnom wrote:you made a gambit that failed to acknowledge that mechanics
Two can play that mechanics game; you're failing to at all acknowledge ANY of my points in regards to rolestop play, watcher play, and nightkill play because you fucking know I'm right, that the kill on Parachutes when Parachutes was self-protecting until literally last minute proves that I didn't fucking kill Parachutes.

The HARD fact is.

Parachutes self-protected.
Parachutes did so until near deadline.
I didn't see it until after deadline.
So I wouldn't have known until too late that I COULD kill Parachutes, as scum.

You on the other hand would have NO clue Parachutes was self-protecting.

That I was in the fucking PT. And this fact is fucking proven. Is mechanical fucking proof that I am town.
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Post Post #1065 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:47 am

Post by nomnomnom »

This gambit is going to look really funny on your game record probably lol
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Post Post #1066 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:52 am

Post by nomnomnom »

I'll have to check but I think it's an international crime to roll scum, go through crazy hoops just to get to a state where you declare you want to hammer a player on lylo then assaulting the poor sod that finds it completely bonkers lol

I'll call austria later
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Post Post #1067 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:00 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1053, nomnomnom wrote:And trust me, I don't need to look at your scum games to tell you that there must be a sparkle of insanity in scum!mastina too.
AKA, you looked but couldn't find it.

Because it doesn't fucking exist.

One iota of research would fucking prove it doesn't exist.
In post 1053, nomnomnom wrote: scum!mastina is not this untouchable unlynchable impossible-to-argue-against perfect and calculated figure.
Of course she's not untouchable or unlynchable or impossible to argue against. It's just that she is perfectly calculated so that if she is touched and if she is lynched it's because she felt it was her best shot at giving her team an endgame. A signature scumastina move at this point is to lynch myself actually and via that self-lynch, set my scumbuddies up for long-term success.

But that self-lynch isn't insanity; it's calculated risk-reward. Low risk from my lynch (because I self-lynch as disposable roles that are not critical), high reward in it putting my scumbuddies in a position where they have a strong angle to win the game via the misleading interactions I dropped. scumastina who self-lynches planned on being lynched and planned on that lynch being as misleading as was possible and planned on that lynch giving the town as much "false information" as is possible.

There's no fucking definition where that becomes insane. It's something which any smart scum player pulls off. You don't want to die as scum, but if you think there's a fair chance that no matter how skilled you are as scum that you'll die anyway...you set your scumbuddies up so that after your death, town is chasing after town, not scum. You create the interactions most favorable to furthering the scum wincon.

So basically: she IS a perfect calculated figure. My worst games were ones where my own team WENT AGAINST WHAT I PLANNED. When my own fucking team WENT AGAINST MY CALCULATIONS. My worst scumgames were games where I had a plan and THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW IT. (At least not as intended.)

And my track record shows as much.
My worst scumgames I can point you to the exact fucking problem my scumbuddies made that contributed to it being a sub-par game and line out what I had in mind that they sabotaged.
Any scumgame where my scumbuddies didn't go against my plan, was usually a good fucking scumgame.
The closest to an exception to this is FakeGod's game, but that game had an OP role that got two, three, guilties on a three-man scumteam. Also the town quicklynched most days before I could post, so. Not exactly my fault I couldn't play that game because it was fucking locked by the time I was around. :P (Basically, town quicklynch = I can't post during the day, town guilties on basically whole scumteam = I couldn't manipulate the game. That was just a game I couldn't possibly win given that combo.) Even then that game wasn't bad, per se, so much as it was "not really even a game" because if you can't fucking post, you can't fucking claim you played the game, now, can you? But I digress.

POINT BEING.

I don't fucking make mistakes as scum. My scumteams do. (And we often lose as a consequence of those.) I don't. I don't necessarily
win
, mind you, even when I have a game with no mistakes. MBoS1 is a good example; I couldn't have played that game better, but we still lost in 3p lylo. We lost it because my scumbuddy got lynched then in 3p lylo, but I KNEW we were going to lose that game because my plan gave us a like 5-10% chance of winning a game that by all rights on D1 was basically unwinnable.
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Post Post #1068 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:04 am

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In post 1067, mastina wrote:AKA, you looked but couldn't find it.
I already have trouble reading all your walls and otter is probably going to cry when seeing the number of pages when he wakes up lol, what makes you think I want to check more games like that? No thanks. You have like 10 years on this site dude. Just saying.
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Post Post #1069 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:06 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1055, nomnomnom wrote:If that was really my plan do you really think I would point at that possibility casually?
Yes, because scum smart play is to set up the next day.

If you're going to bus on D3.

You need to have set up a viable D4 victory path.

If you randomly show up out of nowhere with some never-before-established, never-before-seen stance...nobody's going to fucking believe you. (Case and point: why the town will fucking lose this game because in spite of my fucking effort I don't think I'll actually win this engagement because LuckyOtter won't value my meta even though he really fucking needs to. I showed up with a never-before-established, never-before-seen stance. If it wasn't *me*, if the person who had my stances was somerandomscummer, I'd not believe them, so.)

So any scum player worth a damn.

Sets their fucking lylo up.

By laying the groundwork.
By laying stances to hold on the next day.
In post 1055, nomnomnom wrote:You think I'm a suicidal player?
I turn this question back on you. When Parachutes is my only fucking mislynch here if I'm scum, do you think *I* am fucking suicidal enough to then REMOVE that mislynch and leave me no fucking options?

Apparently you do in spite of all evidence to the contrary.
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Post Post #1070 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:10 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1056, nomnomnom wrote:
In post 1054, mastina wrote:This is literally the extent of what was said on the subject.

What time did this discussion happen?

What account was the posts made under?

Was a hydra partner mentioned/referenced?

What posts did NOM make in there?

How many posts were in the PT?

There's no details there and the few which are there, could be straight from the scum PT.
That makes no difference.
It makes every fucking difference. I fucking provided the details.
You can't.
Because your details are fucking faked; mine are not.

I can even give a comparison for contrast.
Would you like me to paraphrase the doctor PT? I can do it identically.
Would you like me to paraphrase the tracker PT? I can do it identically.
In fact I'd planned on doing precisely that D2 before it was cut short, and D3 to prove it existed when you doubted its existence. You thought LuckyOtter-mastina was possible and I wanted to paraphrase the PT to prove it wasn't, but the thread was fucking locked before I could. I would've done so in the internship PT...if I wasn't in there with my largest fucking scumspect who I thought was confscum.
In post 1056, nomnomnom wrote:Logically speaking the amount of details given doesn't matter at all given that you have 2 days to come up with them, doctor them, change them at will, make sure it fits a narrative, etc.
Oh then you should have no trouble providing them!

Why don't you?
In post 1056, nomnomnom wrote:There's no point sharing those details unless someone asks for them.
And I'm asking for them now.
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Post Post #1071 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:12 am

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In post 1069, mastina wrote:I turn this question back on you. When Parachutes is my only fucking mislynch here if I'm scum, do you think *I* am fucking suicidal enough to then REMOVE that mislynch and leave me no fucking options?
Yes I do.

You think this is ridiculous but I think that you were genuinely scared of losing that 1v1 against chutes, and your over-reaction to that statement makes me think it's the most likely explanation, if it's not something like a bet, or proving yourself, or doing something out there to prove yourself, or what do I know.

Have you played Poker? What you're doing is basically abusing your perceived range, I am fairly sure that if I was to dig for days and days, I would find outliers to the examples you gave me. But for this to work, you have to make sure everyone sees you a certain way which is why you selectively choose games to fit a narrative. It's easy to do that. You could take a bunch of history books and reconstruct history if you took a bunch of events and reconstructed that as narrative. And guess what, that's actually what happens in our real world RIGHT NOW, so you know :P
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Post Post #1072 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:16 am

Post by mastina »

In post 1060, nomnomnom wrote:
In post 1057, mastina wrote:Problem with that.
Putting town!me and town!Parachutes in the same PT means that you don't know if we're protecting LuckyOtter--and I had already been on record as previously protecting LuckyOtter.

As scum you had EVERY reason to suspect I'd be protecting LuckyOtter last night.

This also explains why no watcher, why it was the rolestopper.

If you killed LuckyOtter and there was a guilty on you, then you blow that 1v1 between Parachutes and I.
Occam's razor implies that if a scenario makes no sense with me being scum then it simply means I am not scum, instead of assuming I am scum and fitting a narrative that loosely fits, which is what you're doing.
Occam's razor is that the simpler explanation is usually the correct one. I fucking love using occam's razor so I won't fucking stand for you misusing the term.

Which is simpler?
I am scum, who went for the wifom play of killing the player who was in the same PT as me, knowing that they were self-protecting, hoping to win the 50/50, in spite of said player in the PT being the most scumread player in the game, and in spite of me scumreading that player, all for the HOPE that it'd be wifom enough to not be lynched...

...Or that I'm town telling the truth and scum killed Parachutes because they didn't have a way of knowing that LuckyOtter wasn't being protected?

One of those is far fucking simpler than the other and yet you insist on the former.

Which is simpler?
You are scum who lied about having a PT with scum...

...Or you are town, who happened to be in a PT with scum, and happened to not be the nightkill, and who happened to suspect me, and happened to be left alive, and happened to convey a lot of critical setup information?

One of those is far fucking simpler than the other and yet you insist on the latter.
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Post Post #1073 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:21 am

Post by nomnomnom »

You make it sound simple but it isn't. It's all wording misrep and ignoring all the other things that need to be there for it to happen.

Also I don't know about you but I don't really recall what I was doing last week or whatever so again, providing this info is virtually useless. What do you want, timestamps? Isn't this kind of against the rules anyway? I can detail what happened in the PT, sure, but this is just straight up stupid.
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Post Post #1074 (ISO) » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:32 am

Post by nomnomnom »

Like even if I am scum here I could basically retake timestamps from a scum PT and just reforge something here and now.

I just refuse to answer to this kind of angleshoot because I have no respect for those things and I don't want to play in this when it's proven that there is no logical benefit to it and that it's an attempt to sound more genuine and that this could easily be crafted. So yeah, this is gross.

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