Micro 878: Chain of Command [Game Over]

[Voted]

Excuse me, am I here right for enrollment into cominterm?

[Voted]

why didnt you want to vote him

Because I don’t have a reason.

~L

That's not a reason to unvote at this stage of the game.

VOTE: Liz & Jack

There is no reason to unvote when you don't vote anyone.

minus miltiplied by minus is plus

UNVOTE:

[Voted]

Excuse me, am I here right for enrollment into cominterm?

No janitor interview this time?

~Liz

Sameone is being toxic this game...

[Voted]

why didnt you want to vote him

Because I don’t have a reason.

~L

Have you ever heard of RVS?

[Voted]

Irrelephant voted himself in one game I played with him and won. I will give that strategy a try.
VOTE: Voted

[Voted]

why didnt you want to vote him

Because I don’t have a reason.

~L

Have you ever heard of RVS?

Your point?

Random vote=vote whisout any reason at all.

[Voted]

Excuse me, am I here right for enrollment into cominterm?

No janitor interview this time?

~Liz

Sameone is being toxic this game...

?

Excuse me, am I here right for janitor interview?
VOTE: Voted

+ poisoner pun

[Voted]

Weiss head is v/la for the weekend, hoping Blake can cover post-RVS.

VOTE: zeebu

-W

This slot is town.

-Blake

Your reading abilities are almost godlike.
I could never read that slot so quickly.

[Voted]

VOTE: Aubrey
I dont have time to read this so the vote is 100% sheep.

[Voted]

VOTE: Aubrey
I dont have time to read this so the vote is 100% sheep.

....I'm not going to read into this, but this is silly. Don't do this again. Had I been at L1 you'd have just ended the day prematurely.

I checked, you had 2 votes. I just dont know reason.

[Voted]

Dont prod, I am here and ready to start reading.

[Voted]

Im not reading your walls of text about how you talk about your slot in 3rd person

It was literally one short paragraph.

Just answer this question:

Why would scum!Liz be more likely to move our slot’s vote off of Persivul compared to town!Liz?

- Jack

This question had not been posted in the thread before, noone repeated it 3+ times.
I also think that the question is so interesting that repeating it over and over would not make Liz and Jack look scummy.

[Voted]

I voted you because you’re persisting on misrepping me and keep ignoring that what you’re saying about us is wrong.
~L

Wrong. You unvoted without reason. You were pressured on that. You then voted zeebu without reason, and didn't pressure him. Those aren't misreps. They're facts that anyone can go back and check.

Indeed. During RVS everyone never votes whisout reason, and always pressures these who they RVS vote. Noone changes vote during RVS.

[Voted]

It means that after this hydra will get lynched there will be one less headache for me

Why would our death be “one less headache”?

You seem really eager to get us lynched.

It’s probably unlikely that you and Persi are the scumteam, because one of you would probably be pocketing us to get towncred.

~L

Reacting defensively on non-serious post which sarcastically describes enlightening discussion of last few pages can't give nothing but townlock vibes from Liz.

[Voted]

VOTE: Datisi
dance for me

No, I don't think I will.

look at you, strong and independent, did you flip green or red mate

I really dislike this.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Saudade

And we are pushing Saudade because he is "eager to get us lynched" and that is heavily scummy behaviour.
Lets find same old post of his and call it scummy. That gonna work. Everyone is going to believe that this post is more scummy that Persivul's scumreading on not scummy things. Flawless.

[Voted]

I thought he might be scum until he voted Aubrey. ... When he voted Aubrey, with the reasoning he gave, I started to doubt my vote on him

That's about the only townie thing you've said so far.

Liz and Jack also feel like their overly defending themselves

Yes, that's the real issue.

when a simple explanation and shrug would have been just as effective

Much more effective actually.

These posts seem townie.

Uhh, this post is making me reconsider scum reading Liz and Jack.

[Voted]

Indeed. During RVS everyone never votes whisout reason, and always pressures these who they RVS vote. Noone changes vote during RVS.

WTF does that even mean?

Liz and Jack changed ther RVS vote and didn't pressure their vote.
Such behaviour is very rare, scummy and suspicious.

[Voted]

my brain hurts from those past few posts

So I managed to pass my feelings about first 7 pages of this game to you.
That makes me happy.

[Voted]

Yes, she did unvote you first (41) before changing our slot’s vote to Zeebu (55). I was pointing out that a similar thing happened in the first CoC game, where I voted for Shoshin during RVS, Liz removed the vote, and then later put our slot’s vote on Voted. The only difference between her unvote here and her unvote in the first CoC game is the “pressure” she came under here for doing so, mainly from you and Saudade. She also voted for Zeebu (55) before you voted for our slot (56), so it’s not like she was voting Zeebu as a response to us being wagoned. The narrative that you are pushing that she voted for Zeebu specifically because she came under “pressure” for unvoting you is false. She’s already clarified (138) that she was suspicious of Zeebu until he voted for Aubrey (85).

I think you should post more post dedicated to defend from this.

WE WANT MORE!

[Voted]

my brain hurts from those past few posts

So I managed to pass my feelings about first 7 pages of this game to you.
That makes me happy.

no not really, usually you are better with your english and more clear with your thoughts. i didnt understand your intent behind a lot of what you just said probably due to english not being your primary language.

It's not because of English. Its because of my new friend - sarcasm.

[Voted]

Irrelephant voted himself in one game I played with him and won. I will give that strategy a try.
VOTE: Voted

How long are you planning to keep the vote on yourself? And why did irrel do that?

~Liz

Ask him.
I don't know. Everything I know is that he self voted and then won the game. In other game as Tantor he didn't self vote and didn't win.

[Voted]

Excuse me, am I here right for enrollment into cominterm?

No janitor interview this time?

~Liz

Sameone is being toxic this game...

?

Excuse me, am I here right for janitor interview?
VOTE: Voted

+ poisoner pun

I’m still not understanding this post.

~L

Well, it is not relevant to game state, but if you wish I can try to explain it to you with isometry in five dimensional space. Shall I proceed?

[Voted]

Don't worry, it will definitely be taken into consideration. But I was hoping some other things will happen before I start making definitive reads, because at this point I feel we will just be going into circles with the discussion of vote/unvote thing. Plus, some players have barely posted, and I generally like to hear from everyone first.

Towny.

[Voted]

Voted
Datisi
Persivul
zeebu
Saudade
Iconeum
Liz and Jack

VOTE: Liz and Jack

-Blake

I was top townread? Why?

[Voted]

The Mafia team is composed of 2 players who are randomly assigned to any rank and role in the game (They can be officers. If either of them are officers the secondary win condition does not apply). They have two win conditions A) outnumber the town/endgame them or

B) kill the entire officer command structure (Captain, Commander, and Lieutenant).

There was a REASON why I posted this.

Why would you claim at L-2? I don't really buy this.

- Jack

[Voted]

Spoiler:

The Mafia team is composed of 2 players who are randomly assigned to any rank and role in the game (They can be officers. If either of them are officers the secondary win condition does not apply). They have two win conditions A) outnumber the town/endgame them or

B) kill the entire officer command structure (Captain, Commander, and Lieutenant).

There was a REASON why I posted this.

Why would you claim at L-2? I don't really buy this.

- Jack

I like the coherence here.

[Voted]

Blake and Weiss, do you have same kind of PT or communication outside of game?

[Voted]

Irrelephant voted himself in one game I played with him and won. I will give that strategy a try.
VOTE: Voted

(...) feels like trying to appear busy

Totally.

[Voted]

Doctor. Y’all decide if I’m town or scum doctor. Stupid wagon.

I think that this game needs more power roles to claim.

[Voted]

Voted

Datisi
Persivul
zeebu
Saudade
Iconeum
Liz and Jack

VOTE: Liz and Jack

-Blake

Liz and Jack (Anonymous Hydra) -- HMMM?

Voted -- honorary scum for iso 2 (might be town but that post was really 0.o)

Iconeum -- MIA
Persivul -- town
zeebu -- way more passive than last game?
Datisi -- seems really passive compared to one newbie game I glanced at, kinda leaning scum off that but I'll meta more later in the week
Saudade -- this slot is actually moose-aligned I'm pretty sure
Aubrey -- me and blake talking about this, not gonna talk about this read with main list rn

I have a severe shortage of townreads at the moment so that's gross, kinda was hoping when weekend was over I'd be able to solve more slots. sad

-weiss

Yep, discord is exactly the word about these reads.

[Voted]

Voted said he didn't have time to read and was just sheeping Blake. You don't find that scummy?

There is a significant correlation between time spent on vacations playing the game and player's alignment.

[Voted]

Voted

Datisi
Persivul
zeebu
Saudade
Iconeum
Liz and Jack

VOTE: Liz and Jack

-Blake

Liz and Jack (Anonymous Hydra) -- HMMM?

Voted -- honorary scum for iso 2 (might be town but that post was really 0.o)

Iconeum -- MIA
Persivul -- town
zeebu -- way more passive than last game?
Datisi -- seems really passive compared to one newbie game I glanced at, kinda leaning scum off that but I'll meta more later in the week
Saudade -- this slot is actually moose-aligned I'm pretty sure
Aubrey -- me and blake talking about this, not gonna talk about this read with main list rn

I have a severe shortage of townreads at the moment so that's gross, kinda was hoping when weekend was over I'd be able to solve more slots. sad

-weiss

Yep, discord is exactly the word about these reads.

I want to talk about it.

[Voted]

Self-voting as a reaction test. Sheeping a wagon same reason. I'm not a personal fan of those plays, but I don't scumread Voted for them.

His self-voting is not a reaction test since he outright said exactly why he was doing it in the first place. There's no evidence that indicates he got anything from this 'test' either.

The sheep vote is not a reaction test, this post is proof.

-Blake

Yep.
I sheeped because I wanted to at least try to move the game forward.

[Voted]

Dont prod, I am here and ready to start reading.

who the RAS alt is.

What does it mean?

[Voted]

Is sameone seriously scum reading Saudade this game?

[Voted]

@mod what happens if
doctor targets bg
bg targets doctor
scum targets doctor OR scum targets bg
?

[Voted]

It means that after this hydra will get lynched there will be one less headache for me

Why would our death be “one less headache”?

You seem really eager to get us lynched.

It’s probably unlikely that you and Persi are the scumteam, because one of you would probably be pocketing us to get towncred.

~L

Reacting defensively on non-serious post which sarcastically describes enlightening discussion of last few pages can't give nothing but townlock vibes from Liz.

VOTE: Datisi
dance for me

No, I don't think I will.

look at you, strong and independent, did you flip green or red mate

I really dislike this.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Saudade

And we are pushing Saudade because he is "eager to get us lynched" and that is heavily scummy behaviour.
Lets find same old post of his and call it scummy. That gonna work. Everyone is going to believe that this post is more scummy that Persivul's scumreading on not scummy things. Flawless.

So it’s “scummy” to attempt to sort your strongest sr by ISOing them for possible suspicious posts? Wow! I’ve been doing mafia all wrong.

What was the reason of scumread?

[Voted]

Irrelephant voted himself in one game I played with him and won. I will give that strategy a try.
VOTE: Voted

How long are you planning to keep the vote on yourself? And why did irrel do that?

~Liz

Ask him.
I don't know. Everything I know is that he self voted and then won the game. In other game as Tantor he didn't self vote and didn't win.

for town?

Yep, he was town.

[Voted]

Doctor. Y’all decide if I’m town or scum doctor. Stupid wagon.

I think that this game needs more power roles to claim.

Are you this sarcastic every game?

I randomly change my playstyle.

[Voted]

Self-voting as a reaction test. Sheeping a wagon same reason. I'm not a personal fan of those plays, but I don't scumread Voted for them.

His self-voting is not a reaction test since he outright said exactly why he was doing it in the first place. There's no evidence that indicates he got anything from this 'test' either.

The sheep vote is not a reaction test, this post is proof.

-Blake

Yep.
I sheeped because I wanted to at least try to move the game forward.

Without even trying to sort, you put a slot at L-2?

To help build a wagoon.
Wagoons are good.
I like wagoons.

[Voted]

Yep, discord is exactly the word about these reads.

We hydra because we will push each other about our reads, not because we groupthink. Early day 1 Blake tends to have stronger townreads and I tend to have stronger scumreads but we both struggle with certain types of deep wolves and both can bite into mislynchbait so I don't try to overdetermine her reads frankly. We will solve more as the information in the game develops.

-W

Yeah, but you both put me in totally different alignment. One "strongest" town, other scum. I find it strange.

[Voted]

@mod what happens if
doctor targets bg
bg targets doctor
scum targets doctor OR scum targets bg
?

-Night actions this game will follow Natural Action Resolution.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Resolution

Yeah, but I ca think it two ways.
BG protects doctor, doctor goes on bg, maf hits doc.
1) mafia hit unprotected doc, bg gets hit by unprotected attack, dies.
2) mafia hits doc, kill redirects to bg who is protected and noone dies.

[Voted]

Is sameone seriously scum reading Saudade this game?

VOTE COUNT 1.08

zeebu

(3): Iconeum, Persivul, Blake x Weiss

L-2

Aubrey

(2): zeebu,

Voted

Saudade

(1): Liz and Jack

Iconeum

(1): Datisi

Voted

(1): Saudade

Datisi

(1): Aubrey

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-07-02 13:00:00)

Says the guy voting the hardclaimed doc.

UNVOTE:

[Voted]

Rope this easy win

I think he claimed town protective.
I don't feel like hanging TP claim D1 with doc claim alive...

[Voted]

Doctor. Y’all decide if I’m town or scum doctor. Stupid wagon.

I think that this game needs more power roles to claim.

While we're waiting.
@Voted, was this post sarcastic? Just to clarify

Yes.

[Voted]

Zeebu sucks, so he is town.

[Voted]

Saudade literally scumclaimed with his Icon omgus accusation. Town usually lynches the player with the least charisma D1, which is arguably zeebu, which wouldn’t be bad if we didn’t have a player who outright scumclaimed.

Honestly, I would rather lynch samething with non-zero chance to be scum.
But your call.

[Voted]

at this point i'm not lynching outside of zeebu/Saud today

Thank you for your opinion, here's your key chain.

[Voted]

Zeebu sucks as town, does practically nothing and is hopeless. As scum he posts lots of reads and pushes people.
In this game, which of these two personalities is he closer?

[Voted]

I want to talk mechanics just for 1 sec here:

In the OP it says that the captain has to direct the PR's during the night. In the link to the wiki however, it says the captain has to send it in during the DAY.
I just don't want to end the day without giving the captain a chance to send in actions if he hasn't do so already

Captain, you have 31h, 41min and 59.26535 seconds to do orders.

[Voted]

lol hardclaim not captain

I CC!

[Voted]

lol hardclaim not captain

I CC!

We really shouldn’t have people hardclaim not captain.

It was a soft CC.

[Voted]

Do whatever you wish. When Zeebu flips town, I demand right to bug you with "I told you this would happen" and similar sentenses.

[Voted]

I want to talk mechanics just for 1 sec here:

In the OP it says that the captain has to direct the PR's during the night. In the link to the wiki however, it says the captain has to send it in during the DAY.
I just don't want to end the day without giving the captain a chance to send in actions if he hasn't do so already

Captain, you have 31h, 41min and 59.26535 seconds to do orders.

Was this supposed to be intent?

Nope.
It was a pie.

[Voted]

I like Saudade because of tone and fact he started pushing lurkers.

[Voted]

Do whatever you wish. When Zeebu flips town, I demand right to bug you with "I told you this would happen" and similar sentenses.

What's zeebu done to earn him conftown status in your eyes, Voted?

He did nothing.

[Voted]

Right now I am playing with scum ream of Datisi/ Iconeum.
Still deciding how much I am sure about it.

[Voted]

(That's why I am not voting)

[Voted]

TPR stands for Town PRotective or Town Power Role?

[Voted]

VOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and JackVOTE: Liz and Jack

If you vote them 10 000 more times, I will join you.

[Voted]

Voted why did you quote that jesus christ I was so happy there's a new page so I don't have to scroll past that bullshit

Pagetop template saved.

[Voted]

The last several pages are all nonsense.

This tunneling needs to stop.

-Blake

How did it happen that you had Weiss readed me, one as townies, one as one of the scumiest?
Absolutely different reads.

[Voted]

The last several pages are all nonsense.

-Blake

Yep, last 28 pages are all nonsense.

[Voted]

im going to flip green

I CC.

[Voted]

The last several pages are all nonsense.

This tunneling needs to stop.

-Blake

How did it happen that you had Weiss readed me, one as townies, one as one of the scumiest?
Absolutely different reads.

What's wrong with that?

-Blake

You have PT (on Discord), yet you have so different reads.

[Voted]

I declare intent to lynch Machae Scott

Claim in your next post or I am hammering you.

[Voted]

The last several pages are all nonsense.

This tunneling needs to stop.

-Blake

How did it happen that you had Weiss readed me, one as townies, one as one of the scumiest?
Absolutely different reads.

What's wrong with that?

-Blake

You have PT (on Discord), yet you have so different reads.

1) want to talk about it
2) why am I scum now?

[Voted]

You have 5 min than I am hammering.

[Voted]

then

[Voted]

VOTE: Michael Scott
Bye, bye.

[Voted]

"A picture is worth a thousand words".

[Voted]

I declare intent to lynch Machae Scott

Claim in your next post or I am hammering you.

We know we weren't at L-1 at the time that you posted this, and we know that your hammer is fake. Why are you trying to fish out our role at this point? You already know we have claimed PR Lieutenant. Why are you trying to get us to claim which specific PR we are when there are several days left to the deadline? It's especially suspect of you to do that considering that B&W recently said that our wagon should be derailed (737).

- Volxen

Shame. Hoped I could get you claim samething else than L&J.

[Voted]

The last several pages are all nonsense.

This tunneling needs to stop.

-Blake

How did it happen that you had Weiss readed me, one as townies, one as one of the scumiest?
Absolutely different reads.

What's wrong with that?

-Blake

You have PT (on Discord), yet you have so different reads.

1) want to talk about it
2) why am I scum now?

Because you're not town

-Blake

Still want to talk about the fact you posted different reads. Why?

[Voted]

Will help me read you.

[Voted]

Hmmkay. Scum!Blake would leave Weiss same instructions who to push/ who to pocket, who to call scum and who town. Weiss would also be more likely to ISO Blake and be coherent as scum.

Townlock: Blake x Weiss

[Voted]

How are you so informed?
In 3 hours you read this AND last game?

[Voted]

I play the macro game, not the micro game as scum.

[Voted]

It's especially suspect of you to do that considering that B&W recently said that our wagon should be derailed (737).

Why does this matter?

-Blake

If Voted is scum and he sees that our wagon is falling apart, it's better for him to try and get a fullclaim out of us before someone else gets wagoned. Especially since town!Voted did a "hammer test" on Zeebu in the first CoC game, it makes sense that scum!Voted would try to mimic his play from that game by fake intenting/hammering us, and then when he gets called out on it he just falls back on his play from the first game to defend himself.

- Volxen

You found me. Congratulations.
If I were town, I would never ever repeat my gambits.

[Voted]

Auro was following this game on-and-off before he replaced in.

Has he also a read on who is scum team based on interactions between these scums?

[Voted]

UNVOTE:

[Voted]

Lets try this.
VOTE: Datisi

[Voted]

Voted why are you townreading Saudude? I don't think you ever answered that

Tone and behaviour. Mainly.
And he pushed lurkers.

[Voted]

Zeebu sucks as town, does practically nothing and is hopeless. As scum he posts lots of reads and pushes people.
In this game, which of these two personalities is he closer?

This isn't really a compelling argument -- you're essentially saying that Zeebu has done very little in some of his past town games, so if he is doing very little here that in-and-of-itself must mean that he is town. Even if he typically does more in his scum games, I think you would agree that "doing very little" is easy to emulate as scum, yes? And in any case, he has posted reads (640) and he is pushing our slot. Are you still townreading Zeebu based on the reasons that you listed here?

- Volxen

His reads are very well evaluated and his push is well-though and very likely to make you lynched.

[Voted]

I am happy with Datisi/ Iconeum.

[Voted]

I am happy with Datisi/ Iconeum.

Happy=hypy with possible noose around their neck.

[Voted]

I am happy with Datisi/ Iconeum.

Happy=happy with possible noose around their neck.

I wish I could edit my posts.

[Voted]

Voted, it's getting hard to tell if you're beng serious or not. Are you still townreading zeebu?

Yes.

[Voted]

VOTE: Aubrey

VOTE: Aubrey
Glad I wasn't wrong with my theory, that we are lynching obv towns this game.

[Voted]

Reasons:

Scum could have considered B &W to be a huge threat to them.
Scum could have thought B & W were captain.
Captain could be scum and therefore in control of PR actions.
Scum could be commander and way more interested in dethroning the captain and utilizing PRs for their own agenda.
Scum could possibly have been trying to cause WIFOM.

~Liz

Very helpful

At the very least, wait for him to claim who he protected last night. Why are we putting a slot that was obvtown read by the NK to L-2, before he even has a chance to claim protect candidate?
~Liz

Because he was obvtown.

[Voted]

But agree, it is definitely a good idea for him to claim who he doc’d last night.

Because possibility, that captain doesn't trust Liz and Jack, but trusts doctor is very low.
It is highly unlikely that doctor was sent to protect captain.

[Voted]

#lynchallofficers

[Voted]

UNVOTE:
Fine, fine, I will stop being mad that you lynch Zeebu.
He was off scum meta, he was playing according to town meta, but he had lots of interactions, so his lynch gave us plenty of information. I was a good lynch.

Who would support Liz wagoon?
VOTE: LJK

[Voted]

But agree, it is definitely a good idea for him to claim who he doc’d last night.

Because possibility, that captain doesn't trust Liz and Jack, but trusts doctor is very low.
It is highly unlikely that doctor was sent to protect captain.

Are you serious? We were captain last time and that’s precisely what we did, had bg protect us.

Why is there a correlation between how much captain trusts us and Aubrey?
Also, why are you necessarily assuming captain is town? We don’t know that.

~L

Well, captain might send doctor to heal them at night insteed of you, protecting himself from nightkill and "claiming" to doctor.
Doctor revealing who they healed wouldn't harm town at any way.

[Voted]

Game ends after 4 lynches, if maf kill every night, right?

[Voted]

Hey, Liz, do you agree with me that there is at least one scum in {Datisi, Iconeum}?
UNVOTE:

[Voted]

game ends after 4 lynches, maf can do 3 kills by the time.
There is no way maf can kill doc and 3 commanders at night - do 4 kills.
Mafia plays to outnumber town wincon.
It's possible all commanders are town.
Datisi/ Iconeum are hardframing commanders roles.
Pick one of them, I will sheep.

[Voted]

But they scum

we can still use their information

If they are scum, they will claim their target is town.

[Voted]

game ends after 4 lynches

start 7:2
1 mislynch: 5:2
2 mislynches: 3:2 lylo
3 mislynches: game over

1st mislynch
*nightkill*
2nd mislynch
*nightkill*
lets say town lynches scum
*nightkill*
LYLO

Scum can't nightkill 4 people (unless no lynch)

[Voted]

But they scum

we can still use their information

If they are scum, they will claim their target is town.

What does that even mean? There's not even a possibility for a cop?

Follower. If scum!they targeted their scummate who killed sameone, will they claim it?

[Voted]

I', serious about lynching Iconeum/ Datisi btw

[Voted]

Is there even *any* role which can detect maf?

[Voted]

Hmmm, who could possible be the captain. Hmmmm.

[Voted]

Hmmm, which alignment he could be. Hmmmm.

[Voted]

I am not lynching outside Datisi Iconeum.
Today we can still afford to mislynch one of them.

[Voted]

VOTE: Iconeum

[Voted]

Interesting?
Do you mean impossible? Impossible before LYLO. And if/since there is town doc, there is no point in going for commander structure wincon.

[Voted]

It can be lynched.

[Voted]

Noted.

[Voted]

Iconeum, don't you want a whole mass claim?

[Voted]

Wouldn't scum captain send doc on Liz, rather than Persivul?

[Voted]

To do more "towny" orders?

[Voted]

Who is willing to lynch Iconeum?

[Voted]

I am surprised Pers got protected and isn't captain.

[Voted]

There is like only slot which makes sense with being captain.

[Voted]

Aubrey, wanna vote Iconeum?

[Voted]

Why not take pagetop?

[Voted]

Depends on who claims it.

[Voted]

There is one slot in this game which, if were captain, I would see town though progress in its play.
If captain is sameone else, he has lots of explanation to do.

[Voted]

If you know who the captain is, call him out so we can lynch him

Lets pretend Iconeum is captain and lynch it.

[Voted]

Spoiler:

If these PRs were both town, it would be highly unlikely that scum would let both live, even if scum have the captain. If scum have both the captain and commander it wouldn't matter, but that also is highly unlikely.

You are vastly oversimplifying things and your narrative of "I think LJK is scum because Zeebu flipped town, but I also just want to policy lynch Nancy" is incredibly scummy. I don't think that town!you seriously pushes for a policy lynch on day two after we have already had one mislynch because you don't think Nancy should be in this game. You also haven't even explained why you think town!Zeebu implies scum!LJK -- what is the connection there that suggests that we can't be TvT and Zeebu was simply wrong!town with respect to his read on our slot? Considering that we weren't even pushing Zeebu (we were pushing Saudade) on day one, if you are town why does Zeebu's town flip have you convinced that we are scum? Do you believe that his wagon was all-town?

It's also interesting how your takeaway from Zeebu’s town flip is that we are scum, considering you are the one who brought the Zeebu wagon back directly in response to Icon being wagoned:

Tldr can we just lynch one of Iconeum and Datisi please.

-Blake

I could vote Icon, but not Datisi. She's struck me as town so far.

You're not even voting him, dipshit.

VOTE: Iconeum

VOTE: Iconeum

Actually I went off zeebu because I didn't see LJ slot and zeebu as S/S and wanted LJ worse. Now that I've backed off somewhat on the LJ/MS read, that doesn't apply anymore. Just read Icon and zeebu ISOs, and icon is clearly better.

VOTE: zeebu

I'll let Weiss have this one. We can lynch scum tomorrow, then.

VOTE: Zeebu

-Blake

VOTE COUNT 1.14

zeebu

(5): Datisi, Iconeum, Persivul, Blake x Weiss, Saudade

LYNCH

Datisi

(2): Aubrey, Voted

Saudade

(1): Michael Scott

Michael Scott

(1): zeebu

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-07-02 13:00:00)

The likeliehood of Zeebu’s wagon being all-town is next to zero, yet all you seem interested in is pushing our slot.

And why even mention anything about a policy lynch if you are convinced that we are scum? If you are town and fully convinced that we are scum, then there’s nothing “policy” about pushing us – you would simply be pushing your strongest scumread. Adding in the secondary reason of “It’s policy” just gives you something to fall back on lylo to defend yourself with in the event that you push our mislynch through today.

And no, it isn't mechanically confirmed that at least one of {us, Aubrey} is scum. Especially in the scenario where the command structure isn't all-town and the secondary scum win condition of "kill off the entire command structure" doesn't apply, there's no reason for scum to focus on killing officers specifically. In that scenario scum has to win "the old-fashioned way" by getting three mislynches -- in which case it makes sense for scum to prioritize killing off obvtown players/threatening players over PR's and/or officers. B&W was obvtown on day one, our slot wasn't despite claiming both PR and Lieutenant. That alone is a good reason for scum to nightkill B&W. Furthermore, if both the Captain (Datisi) and Aubrey are town, then scum has to assume we might be protected on night one, so they aren't going to try and nightkill us before dealing with Aubrey. In that scenario their choices are to 1) nightkill Aubrey so they can come after us next or 2) kill a strong town player that was unlikely to be protected. Scenario 1 only really makes sense if the entire command structure is town and the secondary scum win condition applies; scenario 2 makes a lot of sense if there is scum in the command structure.

In fact, even if the command structure is all-town it still makes sense for scum to not nightkill us if they think they can push our mislynch through on day two. Assume that both Aubrey and us are town, and that the entire command structure is town. Let’s furthermore assume that scum concludes Aubrey isn’t an officer, given that he immediately claimed doctor when he was at L-1 because he wanted his wagon to die down, and if he was both an officer and the doctor he likely would have claimed both given how concerned he was about his wagon. So on night one there were eight people alive: us, Aubrey, the two members of the scumteam, and the four remaining townies. From scum’s point of view in this scenario this would mean that both the Captain AND the Commander would be among those four other slots, which included B&W – so killing in one of those four slots already gives scum a 50% chance of hitting the Captain or the Commander. Even in the case where they don’t hit the Captain or Commander on night one, that means that on night two they have at least a 66.66~% of hitting either the Captain or the Commander, depending upon who is lynched on day two (because both the Captain and the Commander are among the three other slots that weren't nightkilled on night one). That’s not bad at all, especially if scum is able to push our mislynch on day two – because that negates the need to prioritize killing Aubrey in the first place, because the purpose of that is strictly to open our slot up as a nightkill on night two.

An Aubrey nightkill really makes the most sense if 1) the entire command structure is all-town and 2) scum doesn’t think they can push our mislynch through. Barring both of those things being true it makes more sense to prioritize killing someone who is 1) an obvtown player with a lot of influence over the game and 2) likely to become a significant threat to the scumteam. B&W arguably met both of those criteria more so than any other slot in the game on day one.

The nightkill of B&W especially makes sense if there is scum among {Iconeum, Datisi}, considering B&W's final reads list and the fact that they wanted to lynch in one of those two slots before you shifted the focus away from Iconeum towards Zeebu instead:

So like

Michael Scott is town because Nancy left her scumrange before replacing out.
Aubrey is town.
Persivul is town.
Zeebu and Voted I feel have the most consistent mindset in a way that I believe they'd struggle to have as scum. I think they would've buckled or at least shifted a bit to pressure.

Saudade is just perpetually null, I don't care enough to sort him.

Iconeum has this weird undertone to his posts that make me think he's not speaking naturally, something about how he's emphasizing certain things at certain times that don't sit right or something, either way I don't get the impression that he's legitimately sorting as much as putting on the show to.
Datisi doesn't feel like she's sorting at all, just sitting in the back coasting. There's been a few instances of reads being given, but it's few and far between and otherwise I haven't gotten the impression she's been trying to solve the game this whole time.

-Blake

Tldr can we just lynch one of Iconeum and Datisi please.

-Blake

All three of our heads agree on you being scum, and we think Icon is most likely your partner. It’s fairly self-explanatory why the B&W nightkill benefits scum!Icon –- before B&W switched their vote to Zeebu (a counter-wagon to Icon which you started), they clearly wanted to lynch Icon specifically on day one. Scum!Icon knew that B&W would be coming after him today. Furthermore, as Nancy pointed out, B&W townreading you is not as significant as them townreading us – Ank/Blake has never incorrectly townread scum!Nancy before, whereas Ank/Blake has incorrectly townread scum!Perisvul before, and she admits she has a hard time reading Persivul accurately. Meaning that scum!Persivul would know that Ank/Blake’s townread on him was unstable and could change at any time (see: the first CoC game and B&W’s ISO in it –- town!B&W initially incorrectly townread scum!Persivul on day one in that game and then later flipped their read on him).

So in addition to protecting scum!Icon from being pushed by Ank/Blake, the B&W nightkill furthermore benefits scum!Persivul because it denies B&W the opportunity to flip their read on him. And scum!Persivul also knew that Ank/Blake would continue to hard defend us today if she were still alive, making it much harder for him to push our mislynch through. It’s incredibly scummy how Persivul accepted Ank/Blake’s townlock on our slot at the end of day one and backed off of his push on our slot based on that alone (he specifically backed off of pushing our slot when he came to learn that Liz is Nancy -- see 897, 898, 913), then pushed Icon, then changed his mind and pushed Zeebu, and is now arguing that Zeebu’s town flip implies that we are scum despite us having nothing to do with Zeebu’s lynch – and all the while he is now completely disregarding Ank/Blake’s townlock of our slot despite accepting it on day one (Ank/Blake repeatedly said we are locktown towards the end of day one: see 686, 737, 739, 868, 870, 875). Persivul is scum and it’s obvious that he is trying to chain Zeebu and our slot as back-to-back mislynches. He couldn't continue to push our slot once B&W started hard defending us towards the end of day one, but now that Ank/Blake is gone he feels confident to resume his disingenuous push our slot.

- Jack (Volxen)

Trying to build a wall between USA and Mexico?

[Voted]

Prodge, and I won't be here even tommorow~

[Voted]

Ico selfvoted again?

[Voted]

Then who?

[Voted]

Hey, mod, did Persivul PM you that he wants to replace, or just posted here?
I mean, I though that if he doesn't PM, it is not valid claim.

[Voted]

I think Persivul is behaving differently than in other game where he was scum.

[Voted]

VOTE: Saudade;
I am running out of scumreads...

[Voted]

Who are we lynching?
Not asking Saudade.