Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[rosterfoster]

Nah but it’s not really coaching though. It’s kind of like ‘oh I have this thing that people do to me, wanna do it?’

A scumteam with Red and Creature will be relatively engaged (also I’m loling because we were playing a newbie together and we mislynched Creature so obviously something was going on with Red there) so coming out with these ideas doesn’t seem at all unlikely to me.

[rosterfoster]

Also scum have daychat, which makes it more likely

[Nero Cain]

go eat your breakfast and then I want to see the iso of montosh you said you'd do

[Nero Cain]

what if that montosh/skitter mixup had just nothing to do with why they are scum?

[Montosh]

Blarghh... my reads have been shit.

Ok I'll be here tonight after work.

[Vorkuta]

Scum: Vorkuta, Otter

I'm conf!town by no so no

VOTE: DeasVail
OMGUS

[Alchemist21]

Scum: Vorkuta, Otter

I'm conf!town by no so no

VOTE: DeasVail
OMGUS

What makes you confTown?

[ofrhz]

Yeah, orhz is my 2nd choice for group scum because she also resisted that red wagon. Deasvail’s defense seems a bit scummier to me though.

I think her overall absence is way scummier than a defense from Deas honestly.

The last thing I would do as scum is defend a partner that has 95% chances to get lynched. That's just putting myself in the spot for no reason. I don't see any scum doing this.

I think a scum would curse in their PT and keep silent and I think that's what Ofhrz has been doing.

I have been pretty low activity sitewide for the last few days if not entire week

And I didn't lurk through the Red lynch, I did give my opinion, and even though it was wrong, I still stand by what I said about town forgetting things all the time lol

[ofrhz]

I guess you're right. Though you can see from the wording that DeasVail thought RF was town, as opposed to Of's lenient approach of "lol not a scumslip BUT can be scum".

I just don't see Deas scum here. That doesn't fit a scum team agenda to me.

What did you think of his reasons for thinking RF was town though?

[ofrhz]

Town: Pops, Kublai, roster, Alch
Less Town: Nero Cain, Kirari, ofrhz
Less Scum: Montosh, nomnom, Jesus
Scum: Vorkuta, Otter

This is actually pretty close to where I'm at

Otter and nom are probably my top two scum reads

[popsofctown]

It wasn't forgetting, it was a false reconstructed memory. The reported occurrence was "placing an unvote on creature with the reasoning that he's town in a different game". The analogue to that would be when you tell a 5 year old every other week that they went to Disneyland when they were 4, usually they'll eventually generate some false memories to match what you tell them. That doesn't happen to townies all the time because it's a rare occurrence in adults and 5 year olds aren't playing mafia.

Yes, as town he would be equally likely to forget when Creature flipped and therefore how useful the lie is... but like that's not what's on trial.

You and DeasVail (and so did RedFlavor but it's a cranial ego self-defense mechanism I'd positive I'd talk myself out of it being a real tell too) keep splitting apart the action "unvoting Creature while considering the fact he's town in a different game" into its component part so that either alignment can forget the order of the opponents. It has to be considered one indivisible action that did or didn't happen.

I am probably wasting threadspace with this because the player I wanted dead is dead and I had extra votes but I really don't get how people don't get it.

[ofrhz]

but seriously, in reality, is there really a world where Montosh COACHES redflavor to deliberately confuse him with skitter? like REALLY? give me a break

Red later said he would totally make something like that up as scum to mess up associations which is kind of giving me a headache to think about right now

[nomnomnom]

I guess you're right. Though you can see from the wording that DeasVail thought RF was town, as opposed to Of's lenient approach of "lol not a scumslip BUT can be scum".

I just don't see Deas scum here. That doesn't fit a scum team agenda to me.

What did you think of his reasons for thinking RF was town though?

It felt pretty unilateral when it comes to thinking but that's not really the crux of the argument.
I just don't think scum!Deas jumps to save his scum partner like that when they are 95% chances the guy gets lynched.
I don't think any scum does that.

[ofrhz]

It wasn't forgetting, it was a false reconstructed memory. The reported occurrence was "placing an unvote on creature with the reasoning that he's town in a different game". The analogue to that would be when you tell a 5 year old every other week that they went to Disneyland when they were 4, usually they'll eventually generate some false memories to match what you tell them. That doesn't happen to townies all the time because it's a rare occurrence in adults and 5 year olds aren't playing mafia.

Yes, as town he would be equally likely to forget when Creature flipped and therefore how useful the lie is... but like that's not what's on trial.

You and DeasVail (and so did RedFlavor but it's a cranial ego self-defense mechanism I'd positive I'd talk myself out of it being a real tell too) keep splitting apart the action "unvoting Creature while considering the fact he's town in a different game" into its component part so that either alignment can forget the order of the opponents. It has to be considered one indivisible action that did or didn't happen.

I am probably wasting threadspace with this because the player I wanted dead is dead and I had extra votes but I really don't get how people don't get it.

I get that this was the argument at the time, but I also think memory is less fragile and accurate than people think it is

Anyway this isn't a line of argument I really want to pursue either

[ofrhz]

I guess you're right. Though you can see from the wording that DeasVail thought RF was town, as opposed to Of's lenient approach of "lol not a scumslip BUT can be scum".

I just don't see Deas scum here. That doesn't fit a scum team agenda to me.

What did you think of his reasons for thinking RF was town though?

It felt pretty unilateral when it comes to thinking but that's not really the crux of the argument.
I just don't think scum!Deas jumps to save his scum partner like that when they are 95% chances the guy gets lynched.
I don't think any scum does that.

I guess I'm failing to see why the "scum wouldn't do that!" logic doesn't apply to me either?

[nomnomnom]

I guess you're right. Though you can see from the wording that DeasVail thought RF was town, as opposed to Of's lenient approach of "lol not a scumslip BUT can be scum".

I just don't see Deas scum here. That doesn't fit a scum team agenda to me.

What did you think of his reasons for thinking RF was town though?

It felt pretty unilateral when it comes to thinking but that's not really the crux of the argument.
I just don't think scum!Deas jumps to save his scum partner like that when they are 95% chances the guy gets lynched.
I don't think any scum does that.

I guess I'm failing to see why the "scum wouldn't do that!" logic doesn't apply to me either?

Alch asked me the same question and I somewhat agreed.

I feel your defense was less insistent and overall that doesn't invalidate the feeling that I think you're scum.

[ofrhz]

OK

I think you're also scumreading me for being inactive, which has been an IRL thing. And the time you replaced in at also basically coincided with me being busier IRL so I can see why you don't think I've contributed much to this game

[nomnomnom]

OK

I think you're also scumreading me for being inactive, which has been an IRL thing. And the time you replaced in at also basically coincided with me being busier IRL so I can see why you don't think I've contributed much to this game

I guess it could cloud my judgement.

I feel your posts haven't left much impact on me too.

[ofrhz]

No I voted because that wagon was becoming a thing.
That being said, I didn't read the game but I might read this tomorrow because it is possible.

But you voted him before, again quoting others, so you must have some opinion of him that you can articulate.

Reading the game would be a great idea, yes.

VOTE: redflavor

Actually idk if otter is scum

[ofrhz]

Yeah I actually like Otter's progression on Red yesterday

probably worth rereading

[popsofctown]

There's a difference between forgetting Bill Clinton used to be president and remembering that Al Gore used to be president. Even if you have Alzheimer's frail fragile human memory doesn't do the second thing to you.

[rosterfoster]

Pops you are my favourite person <3.

[Kirari Momobami]

No I voted because that wagon was becoming a thing.
That being said, I didn't read the game but I might read this tomorrow because it is possible.

But you voted him before, again quoting others, so you must have some opinion of him that you can articulate.

Reading the game would be a great idea, yes.

VOTE: redflavor

Actually idk if otter is scum

I don't see why "I'm voting you so you read the game" isn't s/s when basically it's giving otter permission to backoff for red putting in effort

[Kirari Momobami]

Al Gore actually became president of the internet after he finished inventing it

[ofrhz]

No I voted because that wagon was becoming a thing.
That being said, I didn't read the game but I might read this tomorrow because it is possible.

But you voted him before, again quoting others, so you must have some opinion of him that you can articulate.

Reading the game would be a great idea, yes.

VOTE: redflavor

Actually idk if otter is scum

I don't see why "I'm voting you so you read the game" isn't s/s when basically it's giving otter permission to backoff for red putting in effort

That probably wasn't the best post to quote

Full context of their conversation --

Trying to get caught up. I'm really not liking the flashwagon on Jesus yesterday because of his "do you have a gun" comment. Like, did you all

really

think that was rolefishing? @LUV, roster, redflavor.

I've mostly been TRing Kublai but I don't like his asking roster why he's moving his vote around. Votehopping D1 is obviously a thing and a lot of people were doing it in this game especially. Like, did you see roster doing it

more

than others, or more opportunistically than others? If you followed up on this I'm not seeing it.

I was away during all of Niko's existence here, so going to slog through that now.

Idk I didn't vote for that
VOTE: Jesus Louisus

But you quoted LUV's vote when you voted, which I interpret as agreeing with him that Jesus' gun post was scummy, and I'm not seeing that. So what were/are you voting him for?

No I voted because that wagon was becoming a thing.
That being said, I didn't read the game but I might read this tomorrow because it is possible.

But you voted him before, again quoting others, so you must have some opinion of him that you can articulate.

Reading the game would be a great idea, yes.

VOTE: redflavor

Doesn't read SvS to me