Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

[OkaPoka]

You have too much to lose to try and keep me afloat. You can't buddy a dead slot and you will end up being called a white knight. It sabotages you too much and in truth I think more townies have been called white knights than scum actually white knighting.

Could you clarify what you meant by this? I'm interpreting this as you asking Firebringer not to defend you because you fear he'll be scummy for doing so, but think I might have misinterpreted. (It can't be a scum breadcrumb/signal, which was my first thought, because scum have daytalk.)

No I'm saying he's town and this isn't likely scum whiteknight because the risk reward of hard town read ing me

[skitter30]

I am preempting the what if firebringer is buddying argument

i don't get everything after point 2 then

[TemporalLich]

I've skimmed the thread and Oka seems even scummier somehow

[TemporalLich]

ebwop: the new posts of the thread

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #12

the worst/Oversoul (1) - Dunnstral (397)

OkaPoka (4) (L-1) - skitter30 (191), Oversoul (404), callforjudgement (417), TemporalLich (425)

Dunnstral (0) -
Kop (0) -
skitter30 (1) - Firebringer (279)
Firebringer (0) -
TemporalLich (2) - Sleepless Assassin (158), OkaPoka (164)
Not Voting (1) - SweetNSassy/Kop

Lynch Threshold

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

Day 1 will end on July 13, 2019 9:30:00 PM EDT (GMT-4) or in (expired on 2019-07-13 21:30:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. If you see any errors in the votecount, please let me know.
3. OkaPoka is V/LA until Wednes, July 10.

Voting History Key: * = Hammer, + = L-1 vote.

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 1

the worst (5): skitter30 (90) --> (Null) (168) --> OkaPoka (169) --> (Null) (253) --> SweetNSassy (340)
Oversoul: OkaPoka (404)
callforjudgement: Firebringer (94) --> OkaPoka (157) --> the worst (222) --> OkaPoka (417)
OkaPoka: SweetNSassy (85) --> Dunnstral (105) --> TemporalLich (164)
Dunnstral: SweetNSassy (300) --> the worst (397)
Sleepless Assassin: TemporalLich (93) --> Dunnstral (108) --> TemporalLich (158)
skitter30: OkaPoka (191+)
Firebringer: Dunnstral (91) --> skitter30 (111) --> Dunnstral (138+) --> skitter30 (279)
TemporalLich: OkaPoka (87) --> Dunnstral (109+) --> OkaPoka (167) --> Firebringer (285) --> OkaPoka (425+)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Dawn (Pregame; reference purposes only)

Sleepless Assassin: callforjudgement (14)

[Oversoul]

Actually, the main thing I'm surprised at is that skitter hasn't complained abut my recent activity. I've been having problems finding things to say about this game because it feels like not much is happening; there have been lots of posts but I haven't seen much alignment-indicative in them, and not much that warrants really pointing it out. So I haven't been posting as much as I'd like, and I feel like skitter would have picked up on that?

So there was something that was potentially alignment indicative. You did not feel like Kop's posts pointed one way or another towards his alignment, even after Sassy lurked to her replacement?

[callforjudgement]

I originally thought Kop's posts were townish, but I'd misread them (for some reason I thought they weren't talking about OkaPoka the first time I read them). Expressing a scumread on OkaPoka on new reasoning is a) what scum would be doing in that situation if OkaPoka were town but b) entirely reasonable as town too, so I ended up drawing no conclusions.

[skitter30]

@cfj should i be worried that i'm starting to feel like ur buddying me?

[callforjudgement]

@cfj should i be worried that i'm starting to feel like ur buddying me?

I'm not buddying you intentionally. I guess it's more reasonable to be suspicious of me / discount what I'm saying somewhat if you think that that's what I'm doing (if I'm buddying you unintentionally, you should probably reduce your reliance on what I'm saying in much the same way as if I were tunnelling). Worrying seems like the wrong verb, though.

[skitter30]

Eh maybe i should have said 'concerned' instead

I do kinda feel like you're extraordinarily interested in my opinions tho

[Oversoul]

@cfj should i be worried that i'm starting to feel like ur buddying me?

What did you expect CFJ to say to this if he was scum buddying you?

[Kop]

I'm not sure i really see that here honestly

It might just be my little mind doing silly things. I just felt that was somehow the case in my mind.

Kop explain to me in context how I was appeasing lich

It felt to me that you put out your reads, and lich questioned one of your reads, it felt to me that in order to try look like your actively reaching out, you moved firebringer up because it was mentioned. I just don't know whether you would have moved firebringer up if it hadn't been mentioned a few posts earlier.

It would have made more sense if you had moved him up a lot later than you did, or by interacting more with firebringer, but not as soon as it was mentioned by someone else for you to do it.

I'm probably thinking too much into it tbh, and seeing something that isn't actually there.

[Kop]

I originally thought Kop's posts were townish, but I'd misread them (for some reason I thought they weren't talking about OkaPoka the first time I read them). Expressing a scumread on OkaPoka on new reasoning is

a) what scum would be doing in that situation if OkaPoka were town

but b) entirely reasonable as town too, so I ended up drawing no conclusions.

Surely in this situation if I was scum I could just blend in with the Oka read as he is widely scum read and is the highest wagon, if I was scum I wouldn't need to do a great deal by adding to his scum read. And if I was scum and hammered not long after replacing in, I would get round about the same attention as the others that were on the wagon.

Also on a similar note, it would be the same if I was scum and hammered Oka, I would probably warrant the same amount of attention as the others who were on his wagon if he flipped town.

[TemporalLich]

Yes, but who is he appeasing? Fire or lich?

Appeasing lich, why else would he change a read after being questioned on it?

I don't think bumping up Firebringer (who I SR'ed) a tier is appeasing me.

p.edit if you quickhammered and Oka flipped green you'd probably be lynched. But I can see that strategy working for scum you.

[Kop]

townlean but i don't particularly like it

not what I was expecting. why?

I was expecting this. skitter seems to analyse the game in much the same way I do, and thus is likely to a) disagree with everything you're saying, but b) see that the reasoning behind it is consistent.

Actually, the main thing I'm surprised at is that skitter hasn't complained abut my recent activity. I've been having problems finding things to say about this game because it feels like not much is happening; there have been lots of posts but I haven't seen much alignment-indicative in them, and not much that warrants really pointing it out. So I haven't been posting as much as I'd like, and I feel like skitter would have picked up on that?

My current read on OkaPoka is conflicted; I think he's more likely than random to be scum, but maybe less than 50% to be scum. I guess it's that his actions are blatantly scummy, but emotionally he feels more town. (@

Firebringer

: do you have an argument for OkaPoka as town? I'd be interested to see it, it may help me to gather my own thoughts on the matter.)

PEDIT: This is definitely singleball. Multiball is explicitly abNormal in Micros.

So if you feel that he is less than 50% to be scum, why are you still voting for him?

Why are you bringing up your activity level with reasons that aren't exactly worthy enough as an answer, and saying your surprised that skitter hasn't brought it up, why Skitter, why no one else?

[Kop]

Yes, but who is he appeasing? Fire or lich?

Appeasing lich, why else would he change a read after being questioned on it?

I don't think bumping up Firebringer (who I SR'ed) a tier is appeasing me.

p.edit if you quickhammered and Oka flipped green you'd probably be lynched. But I can see that strategy working for scum you.

Like I said, I could have been looking at in the wrong way.

[skitter30]

@cfj should i be worried that i'm starting to feel like ur buddying me?

What did you expect CFJ to say to this if he was scum buddying you?

Idk, kinda wanted to see if he'd have an interesting reaction to me saying that, and he didng really respond the first time so i repeated it

[Ircher]

Prodding Firebringer (1d 13h) and Dunnstral (1d 21h). They have until (expired on 2019-07-10 23:15:00) to respond before I seek a replacement.

Edit: Firebringer is V/LA so I won't count this against them.

[Oversoul]

I think CFJ’s analysis is good re: your potential moves after replacing into this game. I think it’s more likely that replaced scum would try to avoid any drastic moves like hammering.

[callforjudgement]

So if you feel that he is less than 50% to be scum, why are you still voting for him?

I always like to have a vote out on my top scumread.

It's hard to be more than 50% confident that someone is scum on Day 1, without flips. (It's fairly uncommon to lynch scum Day 1, although it happens.)

Why are you bringing up your activity level with reasons that aren't exactly worthy enough as an answer, and saying your surprised that skitter hasn't brought it up, why Skitter, why no one else?

I don't believe in trying to keep things hidden as town (unless you're

really

widely townread, or have a mechanical certainty of being able to prove you're town, and want to keep things hidden in order to get reads). If you're being open with everyone, it's surprisingly hard to survive as scum without giving away your partners. So I like to do this as town precisely because it's hard to imitate as scum.

As for why skitter, I remembered skitter being particularly sensitive to activity levels. That might have been a misrememberence, but maybe I was thinking of #298. (I didn't check the source before making the post. Perhaps I should be?)

[callforjudgement]

In general I find it suspicious when a player's activity changes, one way or another. If they go from posting a lot to posting a little, it seems like it could be scum who think they have secured the trust of the town. If they lurk and then DANGER appears causing them to become active, it could be scum doing some self-preservation.

Oh, this is what I was thinking of. I just misremembered who it was who posted it.

[Firebringer]

ircher I told u I was VLA

[OkaPoka]

returning from vla early

[OkaPoka]

I am preempting the what if firebringer is buddying argument

i don't get everything after point 2 then

im just saying for future reference im not going to townread anyone who defends me

[OkaPoka]

still need reads from sleepless assassin


kop whats your read on everyone, but specifically me?