Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

[Dunnstral]

skitter's like not getting lynched ever

Didn't ask for posturing

[TemporalLich]

look at these read shifts

they line up perfectly with his votes

which also line up with how the gamestate is feeling basically

dunn wagon is popular -> i sr dunn

dunn wagon no longer popular ->need new sr -> oka might be hot commodity as cjf cases and skitter approves -> votes oka and srs oka now

oka wagon loses steam -> needs new sr -> firebringer seems to be getting sr by skitter -> firebringer jumps to top sr and votes him (look at iso no mention of sring firebringer b4hand, logically if he wanted a new wagon he'd resolve tw or sleepless)

oka wagon gains steam again -> votes oka and i become top sr again?

you're scum even if you're town

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #13

Oversoul (0) -

OkaPoka (4) (L-1) - skitter30 (191), Oversoul (404), callforjudgement (417), TemporalLich (425)

Dunnstral (0) -
Kop (0) -
skitter30 (2) - Firebringer (279), Dunnstral (587)
Firebringer (0) -
TemporalLich (2) - Sleepless Assassin (158), OkaPoka (164)
Not Voting (1) - SweetNSassy

Lynch Threshold

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

Day 1 will end on July 13, 2019 9:30:00 PM EDT (GMT-4) or in (expired on 2019-07-13 21:30:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. If you see any errors in the votecount, please let me know.
3. OkaPoka is V/LA until July 10, 2019.
4. Firebringer is V/LA indefinitely.

Voting History Key: * = Hammer, + = L-1 vote.

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 1

the worst (5): skitter30 (90) --> (Null) (168) --> OkaPoka (169) --> (Null) (253) --> SweetNSassy (340)
Oversoul: OkaPoka (404)
callforjudgement: Firebringer (94) --> OkaPoka (157) --> the worst (222) --> OkaPoka (417)
OkaPoka: SweetNSassy (85) --> Dunnstral (105) --> TemporalLich (164)
Dunnstral: SweetNSassy (300) --> the worst (397) --> skitter30 (587)
Sleepless Assassin: TemporalLich (93) --> Dunnstral (108) --> TemporalLich (158)
skitter30: OkaPoka (191+)
Firebringer: Dunnstral (91) --> skitter30 (111) --> Dunnstral (138+) --> skitter30 (279)
TemporalLich: OkaPoka (87) --> Dunnstral (109+) --> OkaPoka (167) --> Firebringer (285) --> OkaPoka (425+)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Dawn (Pregame; reference purposes only)

Sleepless Assassin: callforjudgement (14)

[OkaPoka]

i dont even understand what thats supposed to mean

[callforjudgement]

(@

Firebringer

: do you have an argument for OkaPoka as town? I'd be interested to see it, it may help me to gather my own thoughts on the matter.)

I think Firebringer either missed this or didn't have time to answer it due to V/LA, so I'm repeating it to make it clearer when Firebringer does a post-V/LA catchup,

I am preempting the what if firebringer is buddying argument

I know it's become fashionable nowadays for scum to attempt to "pocket" townies, but back when I used to play, a more common scum strategy was to defend a townie they thought was likely to get mislynched in order to a) make people think "they didn't push the easy mislynch, they can't be scum" and b) make people think they have accurate reads; the buddying wasn't really an intended outcome. I personally don't understand the strategy but I've seen it commonly enough to be aware of it.

In the scenario where Firebringer's scum and you're town, he isn't doing it to pocket you, rather he's doing it so that the rest of us find it harder to scumread him after your townflip (or if you don't flip, he's doing it in the hope that you'll be an easy mislynch/low-hanging-fruit on a future day). I don't think this scenario is likely but I also don't think it's correct to discount it like that.

PEDIT1: Why are you surprised that people are voting for their top scumread? I agree that normal people don't vote and then change their reads to match the vote, but have you considered that players might read the game, gain reads as a result, and change their vote to match?

PEDIT2: Wow that was a lot of intervening posts. PEDIT1 was in response to #596

PEDIT3: …

[TemporalLich]

i dont even understand what thats supposed to mean

I'm pretty sure trying to wagon me because my votes match my reads is anti-town regardless of alignment

[OkaPoka]

i think site meta is at the point where people eat rope for defending lynched townies

i think lich reads+votes swap is too suspect. like voting top sr but look at firebringer example. where was the indication of firebringer scumread beforehand at all? he was showing signs of not liking sleepless and t_w more and the fact that he sr firebringer more than me is a bit surprising with the coming of the vote.

[OkaPoka]

i dont even understand what thats supposed to mean

I'm pretty sure trying to wagon me because my votes match my reads is anti-town regardless of alignment

except it appears that your reads are coming after your vote

and your reads/votes literally follow the momentum of the game with each step

im not seeing indication of your reads before you do it you know?

for example why is firebringer less scummy now than before and what made you at the time put me as less scummy than firebringer? i didnt see indication of these things before it happened

[OkaPoka]

also would like to know the oka/dunn combo distinction. Going ???? on that.

if it's SvS I'll be shocked inside-out.

TvT might be a possibility but I think SvT is more likely.

Oka is the one pushing the Dunn wagon btw

i got that oka is pushing the dunn wagon, i am just wondering why u thought it had to be TvS.

SvS is right out because seriously? Scum Bussing this early is insane!

Oka doesn't seem particularly towny especially in the light of a green flip, 105 and 127 lead me to believe scummy wagon, but scum bussing this early is insane.

idk scum bussing this early really isn't abnormal. but i don't think oka push is much of a buss.

right now Oka is a solid meh

VOTE: OkaPoka

Maybe, but a scumread is still a scumread

this is the best indication of a reads shift where you think that dunn and i are antialigned

but wrt that you still had dunn as your only sr and me at "meh" and you go through the line of logic where if dunn flips town you'll sr me and then once dunn wagon weakens down you push me up to a scumread

and you've basically dropped your dunn sr at this point because your iso ditches the idea of dunn scum ever again and your leave him at "meh"

but its not like you were kidding about that rvs vote earlier because you indicated it was a serious vote

and wrt to this

talk to me about dunn's slot and why you have him more town than firebringer

Despite Dunn's artificial first few posts, he seems to be giving a bare minimum of explanation. Don't like how he pretty much pulls a Firebringer when asked to explain his SnS SR though.

dunn doesnt explain himself at all until post 300 and you vote me post 167

so yeah

vote vote vote

[TemporalLich]

except it appears that your reads are coming after your vote

and your reads/votes literally follow the momentum of the game with each step

im not seeing indication of your reads before you do it you know?

for example why is firebringer less scummy now than before and what made you at the time put me as less scummy than firebringer? i didnt see indication of these things before it happened

You got so scummy I had to bump Fire down a tier to compensate

Firebringer hasn't done anything to ping me as town from then

In fact 517 is +scum equity for both you and fire, whatever that is

Your reaction to your wagon isn't towny, and I agree with skitter that the lack of resistance on your wagon is scum-AI

[TemporalLich]

ebwop: up a tier

[OkaPoka]

okay point to concrete examples where i do things that scum does with my evil scum posts

[OkaPoka]

posts 385 to 425 is your restriction

[OkaPoka]

firebringer is scum why?

can u click iso on firebringer and come back to me if you still hold those reasons

umm but then by your admission firebringer explains his skitter sr? even if you think it comes from town more, its still his reasoning?

is this not a good time to post then

cfj can you link me some scum games you feel represent your scum meta

okay i guess im just going to avoid sorting you until later if i make it to that stage

im going to need some reads from sleepless assassin when he comes back

and some general thoughts on the game

because i don't know if analyzing is within scumrange and old games are really bad ways to meta people so ill just scumhunt the old fashion way which is vca/wagons -> reading motivations

ill make it easy for you

these are the spooky posts in question

[TemporalLich]

okay point to concrete examples where i do things that scum does with my evil scum posts

a few scummy posts from oka: 515 (NAIish), 577 (I see this as more scum-motivated (trying to throw off the town) than town-motivated, this contraindicates you being town PR), 578 (TMI'ing), 579 (explain sleepless scum to me), 580 (claiming town is a scum cliche), 591 (giving up?)

pedit: no

[TemporalLich]

oka you can't cherry-pick your towny posts and expect me to find scummy posts

[OkaPoka]

i can because thats where the read flip happened since you said yourself i was making evil scummy posts that you had to bump firebringer up to compensate for my mega evil maniacal scumminess

[skitter30]

Skitter once I flip town who is scum

Probably dunn or kop or offchance of cfj

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter30

I don't like their push

Uh huh

Do tell

[OkaPoka]

but lets just say somehow

you townread me more after your posted readslist where you had me at lean scummy

and after that you voted me to put me at l1

what was the point of that play?

[TemporalLich]

i can because thats where the read flip happened since you said yourself i was making evil scummy posts that you had to bump firebringer up to compensate for my mega evil maniacal scumminess

the posts you gave were towny posts, but since you insist I'll play the pretend you're a dayvig that will shoot me if I don't pick a post game

390, it strongly indicates you being scum with Fire and seems like buddying

[OkaPoka]

lol u sr me for pointing out a gap in your logic?

the one where you sr firebringer for not giving explanation but then you yourself said he gave explanation, it just happens you disagree with it?

[OkaPoka]

and if that post only indicates me being scum with firebringer then how does that bump firebringer up to less scummy LOL

[TemporalLich]

lol u sr me for pointing out a gap in your logic?

the one where you sr firebringer for not giving explanation but then you yourself said he gave explanation, it just happens you disagree with it?

I can see scum!you doing it to look like you're defending firebringer by attacking me

[OkaPoka]

and if that post only indicates me being scum with firebringer then how does that bump firebringer up to less scummy LOL