Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

[Kop]

You've mentioned 2/3 possibilities of who could be scum, but I'm only seeing these as words since I don't see you pushing those avenues but rather sit on your vote on Oka and not move unless it's a vanity wagon, which at this stage it looks like it could be.

It wasnt a vanity wagon till like ... just now, so its at best inaccurate to characterize my vote this way

Dunn has done nothing this game and isnt engaging, not sure what you expect me to do there

And now i'm working on you, yay

Yes Dunn hasn't done a lot in this game, but in reality, activity isn't exactly alignment indicative. Dunn not being here, it just feels that he has been thrown in there because it sometimes is the easy thing to do.

I can agree with you though that when someone isn't here much, it's hard to engage with, but I just don't see you attempting to pressure that slot or giving them something that will make them come into the game.

[Kop]

Well at this stage, it doesn't look like the Oka wagon is going to be the final wagon, there's got to be a compromise. You have 2/3 other possibilities, why not pursue them, I haven't seen your cases against them.

I mean I dislike your final point in a previous post where if Oka managed to get you flipped you'd make it clear that Oka would be next. If Oka was to vote you, you are making a trade it's either you or me, if it's me, I'm getting them to put you out next. Your attempting to make it out that if there was a wagon on you, your making it a trade and asking people to make a stance, which you know for a fact they are going to take a opposite because your town read by almost half the player list, and only 2 people have actually voted for you and 2 have expressed voting you, and 1 of those is if your a vanity wagon. If you made a trade, Oka would be first choice over you. So you can only make that point based on that.

A) none of this scummy
B) again, until like last night, oka was viable, so complaining that i'm sitting on a useless wagon is kinda silly given that it's a p recent development
C) i understand neither your final paragraph, nor why you're voting me

What I'm saying is I don't like the final point to what you said to Oka in regards to your defence on Oka saying he will push to lynch you. You stated that if he wins the trust and gets you lynched, you'd make the point on getting them to lynch you the next day. Your basically making a trade and influencing the game state that if you get lynched, Oka must go the next day. Your not considering that others could potentially be scum jumping on, your going into a death tunnel and placing trust in others to lynch Oka the next day, considering his wagon was at L-1 for god knows how long has now dissolved.

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #17

Oversoul (0) -
OkaPoka (2) - skitter30 (191), TemporalLich (425)
Dunnstral (1) - Oversoul (673)
Kop (1) - callforjudgement (644)
skitter30 (2) - Dunnstral (587), Kop (860)
Firebringer (0) -

TemporalLich (3) (L-2) - Sleepless Assassin (158), OkaPoka (164), Firebringer (687)

Not Voting (0) -

Lynch Threshold

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

This phase will end on July 13, 2019 9:30:00 PM EDT (GMT-4) or in (expired on 2019-07-13 21:30:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. If you see any errors in the votecount, please let me know.
4. Firebringer is V/LA indefinitely.

Voting History Key: * = Hammer, + = L-1 vote.

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 1

the worst (5): skitter30 (90) --> (Null) (168) --> OkaPoka (169) --> (Null) (253) --> SweetNSassy (340)
Oversoul: OkaPoka (404) --> Dunnstral (673)
callforjudgement: Firebringer (94) --> OkaPoka (157) --> the worst (222) --> OkaPoka (417) --> Kop (644)
OkaPoka: SweetNSassy (85) --> Dunnstral (105) --> TemporalLich (164)
Dunnstral: SweetNSassy (300) --> the worst (397) --> skitter30 (587)
SweetNSassy (0):
Kop: skitter30 (860)
Sleepless Assassin: TemporalLich (93) --> Dunnstral (108) --> TemporalLich (158)
skitter30: OkaPoka (191+)
Firebringer: Dunnstral (91) --> skitter30 (111) --> Dunnstral (138+) --> skitter30 (279) --> TemporalLich (687)
TemporalLich: OkaPoka (87) --> Dunnstral (109+) --> OkaPoka (167) --> Firebringer (285) --> OkaPoka (425+)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Dawn (Pregame; reference purposes only)

Sleepless Assassin: callforjudgement (14)

[Sleepless Assassin]

Yeah best bet is temp scum I think. If it's not him it's whoever hammers

do you really think temporal pushes the kind of bad arguments he has here as scum? because I have seen really bad town!temporal arguments that has gotten me to tunnel him. I really think its more likely he is town and scum are going to use him to push bad lynches

I kinda doubt he's intentionally making bad arguments.

____________

My copy and paste is broken at the moment for some reason but Oka asked me if sweetnsassy asked to play or if i asked her and i actually don't remember. I know I brought I up in conversation and she asked for a link to the site and then how to play so I showed her the flash. I think after that it was her idea to actually /in.

PEDIT: This is definitely singleball. Multiball is explicitly abNormal in Micros

Ok now it's letting me copy and paste again lol. Anyway.... Yeah that's exactly my point. Why would he even bring it up? Skitter's point about their last game answers that though so I'm fine dropping it.

______________

My opinion on kops point about oka appeasing temp:
1) I don't see it. As has been said, okas firebringer read went in the opposite direction of what temp would have wanted and I think oka just thought about it more and realized he thought firebringer was more town.
2) i think im leaning town on kop. I think he actually thought he saw something but started to doubt himself after more discussion on it.

23

[callforjudgement]

but I can see that happening as town when the gamestate is overwhelming you.

The only thing that overwhelms me are the warm, fuzzy feelings I get when some of the cast here makes a post. Boy, I love that everyone is so unique. By the way, why would the gamestate be overwhelming instead of underwhelming? It feels like a lot of people have been content to vote park for days on end

It depends on whether you measure activity in posts or votes.

The number of posts we've had has been very high, most of them not being particularly useful. That makes a catchup difficult because you have to read them all to see if there's anything important there, or else ignore them all and miss anything important that might be there.

[callforjudgement]

Well at this stage, it doesn't look like the Oka wagon is going to be the final wagon, there's got to be a compromise. You have 2/3 other possibilities, why not pursue them, I haven't seen your cases against them.

Are you townreading OkaPoka?

On another note, what's your read on TemporalLich?

[skitter30]

Now put into words why 'you dont like this stuff'

It is pushing your agenda by saying things that aren't really true

Not sure why people pointed at Kop/me as if we were the only 2 who could have hammered Oka either.... What was everybody else doing?

VC think ok, I forgot Fire moved there. You were already on Oka though which had similar support. More importantly, I don't buy into the "why wouldn't I lynch him" argument to try to clear yourself

i was using you two as an example, not saying exclusively that you two are scum who could have hammered

and what does me being on oka have to do with anything - last night, when oka was trying to get me to lynch lich, the oka wagon was already waning and the tl was gaining some amount of momentum

[skitter30]

What mislynch was offered to you?

again, oka asking me to join the tl wagon about four times last night

it's only not a mislynch from the perspective of scum!me if i'm partnered with him, an dyou don't seem to be making that argument

[skitter30]

Yes Dunn hasn't done a lot in this game, but in reality, activity isn't exactly alignment indicative. Dunn not being here, it just feels that he has been thrown in there because it sometimes is the easy thing to do.

I can agree with you though that when someone isn't here much, it's hard to engage with, but I just don't see you attempting to pressure that slot or giving them something that will make them come into the game.

i didn't say that lurking is ai; i said that engaging with someone who's lurking is difficult when they're choosing to not engage or respond to questions. i did ask him things, i don't think he answered them

like there's 30 pages worth of content for him to engage with; i'm not sure what else you're expecting me to do when he's obviously not participating

[skitter30]

Well at this stage, it doesn't look like the Oka wagon is going to be the final wagon, there's got to be a compromise. You have 2/3 other possibilities, why not pursue them, I haven't seen your cases against them.

I mean I dislike your final point in a previous post where if Oka managed to get you flipped you'd make it clear that Oka would be next. If Oka was to vote you, you are making a trade it's either you or me, if it's me, I'm getting them to put you out next. Your attempting to make it out that if there was a wagon on you, your making it a trade and asking people to make a stance, which you know for a fact they are going to take a opposite because your town read by almost half the player list, and only 2 people have actually voted for you and 2 have expressed voting you, and 1 of those is if your a vanity wagon. If you made a trade, Oka would be first choice over you. So you can only make that point based on that.

A) none of this scummy
B) again, until like last night, oka was viable, so complaining that i'm sitting on a useless wagon is kinda silly given that it's a p recent development
C) i understand neither your final paragraph, nor why you're voting me

What I'm saying is I don't like the final point to what you said to Oka in regards to your defence on Oka saying he will push to lynch you. You stated that if he wins the trust and gets you lynched,

you'd make the point on getting them to lynch you the next day. Your basically making a trade and influencing the game state that if you get lynched, Oka must go the next day.

Your not considering that others could potentially be scum jumping on, your going into a death tunnel and placing trust in others to lynch Oka the next day, considering his wagon was at L-1 for god knows how long has now dissolved.

yep, p much

i think he's scum, and if he wants to remove me from the game i'm going to do my level best to make sure that people understand he should go next
not sure what the problem is with that; that's how the game is played

and again i think the fact that it was at l-1 for forever is scum indicative for him

[skitter30]

@ cfj remind me why you're voting kop?

[callforjudgement]

My case on Kop is written out in #644. Kop's only made one post since, #660, which doesn't seem to contribute anything to the game (and looks rather like lurking whilst trying to make it look like you aren't lurking; it also doesn't actually answer the question it quotes). If he can put into the effort to write a fairly long post that doesn't go anywhere, why not put in the effort to attempt to read somewhere off the wagon? So that's more of an extension of my original read.

If Kop posts more then there will be more posts to react to and get a read from.

[callforjudgement]

Kop has posted since then, #880 is a couple of questions I had when trying to evaluate the more recent posts.

[skitter30]

have u ever played with kop before?

[callforjudgement]

Not as far as I know / can remember. (I don't normally try to decode who the player behind an alt is, so it's possible I've played with him without realising.)

[TemporalLich]

Skitter as pretty much sat on Oka for nearly 700 posts, as two other possibilities of who could be scum, but I don't recall Skitter engaging with them.

I don't really like that vote

[OkaPoka]

Going to be home soon but I'm waiting on cfj to drop some semblance of a readslist

[skitter30]

@ircher v/la till sunday (weekend)

[TemporalLich]

We're under time pressure and the town is still hopelessly fractured?

Who are you willing to compromise vote, if this becomes necessary?

[skitter30]

dunn or kop

(i should be able to post before deadline but i have regular v/la each weekedn ad can't post very regularly; usually i just announce it once in rvs)

[OkaPoka]

Really I've lost track of most of the slots because you've been trying to make the game all about TemporalLich (and thus indirectly making it all about you). I'd like to evaluate more widely, but the heavy focus on one thing has effectively given town slots a reason and scum slots an excuse not to interact with anyone else, making town and scum behaviour more similar. (Dunnstral, for example, has been acting in a way I'd consider scummy in most gamestates but maybe not in this one; he's been posting only self-justification and information in the last 250 posts or so, but I can see that happening as town when the gamestate is overwhelming you.)

I'm not at the point in the game where I can attempt a full solve; there's too much missing information. (Really, it's hard to get anywhere in terms of full solves until you have a scumflip.)

For what its worth, though, I think that if you're scum, Sleepless Assassin is the most likely partner (#655 is possibly a scumslip, I vaguely remember having seen that exact slip before but can't remember where; the scumread on TemporalLich in #674 also seems a bit like an echo of you, although it's hard to be certain that that's the actual cause). Either way, he's probably unlikely to ever finish catching up at this point given the apparent work restrictions and the speed of the thread, and I haven't seen much to think he's scum other than associatives.

cfj i literally let town do whatever they wanted to do for more than 50% of the deadline and all we had to show for it was two attempts to run me up to l1 with the same exact people and people basically ignoring the non posters

at least with this interaction other slots are weighing in finally and you really should have zero excuse not to have a semblance of a solve. i dont care if you dislike the focus, none of your earlier posts contain anything resembling a solve other than oka is antitown lul. the person your voting is kop, who is scum with kop? is kop even scum? what are you trying to do ? you've lost track of your reads, read your iso and you even say that town should be fully transparent so i guess you should have some reads hidden in there? im giving you room right now to do something otherwise im doing it my way again.

[OkaPoka]

You've mentioned 2/3 possibilities of who could be scum, but I'm only seeing these as words since I don't see you pushing those avenues but rather sit on your vote on Oka and not move unless it's a vanity wagon, which at this stage it looks like it could be.

It wasnt a vanity wagon till like ... just now, so its at best inaccurate to characterize my vote this way

Dunn has done nothing this game and isnt engaging, not sure what you expect me to do there

And now i'm working on you, yay

you had all game to call out dunn for not doing anything

you could've put him in a readslist and marked him scum for doing so, but you didn't

shading him now is LOL

[OkaPoka]

voting lich : )

I didn't scumread lich and still don'tSleepless Assassin is a question mark for me, noting that they may be unlikely partners with Kop if the predeccesor was truly overwhelmed

As for Kop himself, I don't remember much about him as a player but I remember low posting being pretty typical. I think there's a fair chance he's scum just based on other slots being town.

"No info lynch" is a bad argument, next to "they're low hanging fruit so it's scummy to push them" - which I remember both were used so far.

The above is interesting, you are saying that you've read the thread multiple times? Are you moving towards a skitter vote?

The other question mark for me is Firebringer, no clue what alignment he is or how to divine said info at this time. OHe moved off Skitter after I moved on, and now Kop is posturing around Skitter

maybe ill vote skitter

[OkaPoka]

Kop's vote on skitter just solidifies a temp/kop team though

[OkaPoka]

because dunn/kop is not a compelling argument since that means they let town run me up to l1 twice and didnt hammer or even give intent when all eyes were on me and it was reasonable to for a hammer

eh i could see that narrative

still feel like scum would have figured out how to hammer you given that you've been at l-1 for like half a week if you're town here tho

hammering is hard tho

can you think of how a dunn/kop scum could get a hammer on me reasonably without drawing huge red flags?

@oka can you explain how these make sense together

In the first you're arguing against dunn/kop being scum becuase they didnt take the oppurtunity to hammer you

In the second yoh're saying that i shouldnt think it would have been easy for them to hammer you, so your wagon is not scum-indicative

in the first im arguing against me + dunn/kop