Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #900 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:49 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

In post 873, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 872, skitter30 wrote:Now put into words why 'you dont like this stuff'
It is pushing your agenda by saying things that aren't really true

Not sure why people pointed at Kop/me as if we were the only 2 who could have hammered Oka either.... What was everybody else doing?

VC think ok, I forgot Fire moved there. You were already on Oka though which had similar support. More importantly, I don't buy into the "why wouldn't I lynch him" argument to try to clear yourself
sleepless was afk/voting with me

firebringer townreads me

you/kop were unclear on me
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Post Post #901 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:50 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

In post 879, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 863, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 855, callforjudgement wrote:but I can see that happening as town when the gamestate is overwhelming you.
The only thing that overwhelms me are the warm, fuzzy feelings I get when some of the cast here makes a post. Boy, I love that everyone is so unique. By the way, why would the gamestate be overwhelming instead of underwhelming? It feels like a lot of people have been content to vote park for days on end
It depends on whether you measure activity in posts or votes.

The number of posts we've had has been very high, most of them not being particularly useful. That makes a catchup difficult because you have to read them all to see if there's anything important there, or else ignore them all and miss anything important that might be there.
this is a slow game tbh

but maybe im just a youngling
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Post Post #902 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:56 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

Oversoul and cfj need to either move off their vote or start making a decent case.

If you don't three more days of me vs lich then I need to have some spice
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Post Post #903 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:57 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

if you don't want
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Post Post #904 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:00 pm

Post by Ircher »

In post 877, Ircher wrote:
Day 1 VC #17Oversoul (0) -
OkaPoka (2) - skitter30 (), TemporalLich ()
Dunnstral (1) - Oversoul ()
Kop (1) - callforjudgement ()
skitter30 (2) - Dunnstral (), Kop ()
Firebringer (0) -
TemporalLich (3) (L-2) - Sleepless Assassin (), OkaPoka (), Firebringer ()

Not Voting (0) -

Lynch ThresholdWith 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline
This phase will end on July 13, 2019 9:30:00 PM EDT (GMT-4) or in (expired on 2019-07-13 21:30:00).

Moderator Notes1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. If you see any errors in the votecount, please let me know.
3. Firebringer is V/LA indefinitely.
4. Moderator is V/LA from Wednesday, July 17 to Sunday, July 21. Please forward any questions to Skygazer during that time.
5. skitter30 is V/LA until Sunday, July 14.

Voting History Key: * = Hammer, + = L-1 vote.

Spoiler: Current Voting History
Day 1the worst (5): skitter30 () --> (Null) () --> OkaPoka () --> (Null) () --> SweetNSassy ()
Oversoul: OkaPoka () --> Dunnstral ()
callforjudgement: Firebringer () --> OkaPoka () --> the worst () --> OkaPoka () --> Kop ()
OkaPoka: SweetNSassy () --> Dunnstral () --> TemporalLich ()
Dunnstral: SweetNSassy () --> the worst () --> skitter30 ()
SweetNSassy (0):
Kop: skitter30 ()
Sleepless Assassin: TemporalLich () --> Dunnstral () --> TemporalLich ()
skitter30: OkaPoka (+)
Firebringer: Dunnstral () --> skitter30 () --> Dunnstral (+) --> skitter30 () --> TemporalLich ()
TemporalLich: OkaPoka () --> Dunnstral (+) --> OkaPoka () --> Firebringer () --> OkaPoka (+)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History
Dawn (Pregame; reference purposes only)Sleepless Assassin: callforjudgement ()
Last edited by Ircher on Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #905 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:04 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 895, OkaPoka wrote:
In post 855, callforjudgement wrote:Really I've lost track of most of the slots because you've been trying to make the game all about TemporalLich (and thus indirectly making it all about you). I'd like to evaluate more widely, but the heavy focus on one thing has effectively given town slots a reason and scum slots an excuse not to interact with anyone else, making town and scum behaviour more similar. (Dunnstral, for example, has been acting in a way I'd consider scummy in most gamestates but maybe not in this one; he's been posting only self-justification and information in the last 250 posts or so, but I can see that happening as town when the gamestate is overwhelming you.)

I'm not at the point in the game where I can attempt a full solve; there's too much missing information. (Really, it's hard to get anywhere in terms of full solves until you have a scumflip.)

For what its worth, though, I think that if you're scum, Sleepless Assassin is the most likely partner (# is possibly a scumslip, I vaguely remember having seen that exact slip before but can't remember where; the scumread on TemporalLich in # also seems a bit like an echo of you, although it's hard to be certain that that's the actual cause). Either way, he's probably unlikely to ever finish catching up at this point given the apparent work restrictions and the speed of the thread, and I haven't seen much to think he's scum other than associatives.
cfj i literally let town do whatever they wanted to do for more than 50% of the deadline and all we had to show for it was two attempts to run me up to l1 with the same exact people and people basically ignoring the non posters

at least with this interaction other slots are weighing in finally and you really should have zero excuse not to have a semblance of a solve. i dont care if you dislike the focus, none of your earlier posts contain anything resembling a solve other than oka is antitown lul. the person your voting is kop, who is scum with kop? is kop even scum? what are you trying to do ? you've lost track of your reads, read your iso and you even say that town should be fully transparent so i guess you should have some reads hidden in there? im giving you room right now to do something otherwise im doing it my way again.
Thinking you can solve the game day 1 is just being overly optimistic, even conceited. Town rarely actually lynches scum on day 1; the best day 1s are normally when you catch the scum manipulating the lynch and get to solve the game day 2 after a town lynch.

"other slots are weighing in finally" – that didn't happen because you spamposted, it happened because you
stopped
spamposting and gave the game room, and it also happened because people came off V/LA (which is nothing to do with anyone's actions in game).

You also aren't nearly townread enough to take over the game, being easily in the bottom half. A TemporalLich lynch is very unlikely to happen (to the extent that I'm starting to wonder if you're scum together, because you've more or less manipulated a situation in which Lich is never going to be lynched today because people are fed up of hearing the same weak arguments over and over again). I'm guessing that you're going to be the most likely compromise lynch at deadline. If you don't want that to happen, you'll want to try to convince people of a better one.

I can't see any good reason not to try to gather reads until we're very close to deadline; I'm not directing the game in any particular direction right now because i'm not sure enough of my reads to do so. In particular, I'm not the sort of person who tries to powertunnel people unless I'm sure (and even when I'm sure, I'm still often wrong, something that makes me still more cautious to do so).

On a separate subject, do you have a strong town read on Dunnstral?
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Post Post #906 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:10 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

the reason why i want a solve guess from you is because its the best way i know for certain you are actually scumhunting

there

and no i dont townread dunn
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Post Post #907 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:16 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

I'm thinking the scumteam is probably okapoka/firebringer. If oka flips green, dunn is likely scum
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Post Post #908 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:18 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

VOTE: Kop

A red flip here should guarantee Lich scum.
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Post Post #909 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:22 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

Town flip Kop, idk what we get from it.

CFJ what do you do if you see a green flip Kop?
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Post Post #910 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:22 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 896, OkaPoka wrote:you had all game to call out dunn for not doing anything

you could've put him in a readslist and marked him scum for doing so, but you didn't

shading him now is LOL
uh he's been in my scumlist for literally hundreds of posts, thank you

i don't know if i ever explicitly said that's why i had a problem with here but like i've been strongly suggesting for a while now that i'm not happy about he's playing this game
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'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me

'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

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Post Post #911 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:22 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 896, OkaPoka wrote:you had all game to call out dunn for not doing anything

you could've put him in a readslist and marked him scum for doing so, but you didn't

shading him now is LOL
uh he's been in my scumlist for literally hundreds of posts, thank you

i don't know if i ever explicitly said that's why i had a problem with here but like i've been strongly suggesting for a while now that i'm not happy about he's playing this game
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'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me

'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
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Post Post #912 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:22 pm

Post by skitter30 »

oka do you like town or scum more?

which do you think he's better at
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'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

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Post Post #913 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:22 pm

Post by skitter30 »

*you're better at
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'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
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Post Post #914 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:23 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

I prefer scum.

I'm better at scum.

Still shit at both.
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Post Post #915 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:24 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 809, OkaPoka wrote:
In post 807, skitter30 wrote:basically the same minus you

oversoul probably loses the townread / goes down a tier
okay but what do you make of the fact that ive been run up to l1 twice in that case on a town me?
In post 810, OkaPoka wrote:because dunn/kop is not a compelling argument since that means they let town run me up to l1 twice and didnt hammer or even give intent when all eyes were on me and it was reasonable to for a hammer
@oka this is literally in context of them not hammering town!you

you can't use the same piece of evidence to argue opposite conclusions when convenient, ffs
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'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

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Post Post #916 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:25 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

yes i can all roads lead to oka town

afaik your dunn scum appeared when he voted you
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Post Post #917 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:26 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 908, OkaPoka wrote:VOTE: Kop

A red flip here should guarantee Lich scum.
uh no, what's the connection here
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'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

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Post Post #918 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:26 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

Kop voted you rather than Lich.

Good enough for the day
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Post Post #919 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:30 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

(PEDIT: re #; also, 12 new posts since I started writing this?)

In that case I'm very suspicious of #. It feels to me like you're trying to manipulate the gamestate away from certain wagons when you don't have a townread on the players in question. Like, the wagon on you has collapsed (for a second time), skitter starts looking elsewhere, then you get annoyed with her for looking in the wrong place even though you don't disagree with her reads?

(# is also confusing me. You're acting like it's common knowledge that you have a very strong scumread on Kop, yet you haven't really done much to express it so far; I don't count # because that's clearly a pressure post. I didn't really pick up much of a Kop read from reading your posts over the course of the game, and going back and ISOing you all I can pick up is that you think Kop must be scum because if someone else off your wagon was scum, you would have been hammered?)

On a slightly different note, you seem to be having "recursive tunnel reads", you start with a premise (in this case, that Lich is really strong scum), then use it as a lens through which to view the whole gamestate (e.g. you're apparently viewing anyone who votes skitter as suspect because Lich is voting skitter, even though you apparently don't have much of a townread on skitter apart from that).

Combining the two points: it feels to me at the moment like you feel you need a scumread on Kop for whatever reason (perhaps because you think it's the only/main way to make TemporalLich make sense as scum), but don't have a strong independent scumread, and are trying to find a natural way to move into that position without post-rationalising (after all the discussion we've had about post-rationalisation so far this game, it's understandable that you wouldn't want to be caught doing that yourself!). Thus the fairly panicky calls for me to explain my Kop vote, presumably so that you can sheep me after the explanation.

I would like Kop to answer #, though, as I think the answers would be helpful for reading him (the questions were inspired by his recent string of posts). Working out why I asked the questions might also be useful for reading me.
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Post Post #920 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:32 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

Kop was posturing to hammer me
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Post Post #921 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:33 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

I actually do have a solid townread-ish on skitter

I tried a dirty method to get her to vote with me but it didnt work

so im just meh
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Post Post #922 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:34 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 916, OkaPoka wrote:yes i can all roads lead to oka town

afaik your dunn scum appeared when he voted you
i'm saying that kop/dunn had ample oppurtunity to hammer you but didn't, and the fact that they didn't is indicative of scum!you

you're at once arguing that:

1.since they had the oppurtunity to hammer you but didn't that indicates that scum are already on wagon (hence not indicative of scum!you) - and
2. hammering is hard and they couldn't have done it without causing red flags if scum

like basically in 1 you're saying they had the oppurtunity to hammer you but chose not to, and this points to town!them
and in 2 you're saying that they could not have hammered you in a not-suspicious fashion

like these don't make sense as a coherent thought process

it can't have been both easy adn hard to hammer you; apparently which it was is dependant on what you're trying to argue at the time

if anything i'd argue that this implies that *your* thoughts are mercurial
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'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me

'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA

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Post Post #923 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:34 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

okay cool whatever skitter
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Post Post #924 (ISO) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:34 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 909, OkaPoka wrote:Town flip Kop, idk what we get from it.

CFJ what do you do if you see a green flip Kop?
It would make me more suspicious of skitter.

However, information from the lynch wagon (and/or posts by people trying to stop it) would more likely be more important in determining my reads the next day.

PEDIT (PEDIT2: re: #): What precisely do you mean by "posturing" here? Specifically, do you mean that he was implying he would hammer you without planning to go through with it, or do you mean that you suspected he would hammer you but events got in the way?
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