Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[Vorkuta]

Does anyone have meta with Vorkuta where he showed signs of extreme cleverness/deviousness?

*blushes*

Hi again to Otter, NC, roster, orfhz, Alch, ED, pisskop, RedFlavor, Saudade, and Creature

have seen me at my worst

[Kirari Momobami]

Actually it occurs to me that he posted the "about time [x] rolls scum" in a recent scum game

VOTE: S_S
about time he rolls scum against us

but that wasn't a bus

so I guess it's not impossible he'd pull that line against Creature as s/s?

still I think he's safely not traitor given his 'slip' earlier

maybe I'm writing him off as not-group-scum too easily though?

I did still think the day 1 push against Creature was decently townie though maybe, outside of the weird beginning?

[Kublai Khan]

@ LuckyOtter, nomnomnom, Jesus Louisus - Is there anything outside of ofrhz's reaction to popsofctown's RedFlavor catch that signals scum to you guys?

[Kublai Khan]

still I think he's safely not traitor given his 'slip' earlier

Hmm, maybe true.

I was hoping to eliminate him from scum altogether. My assumption is that scum would talk about the normal rules of a traitor in their private topic. Especially with a Mafia Cop.

[popsofctown]

if vorkuta is groupscum who just legitimately traitorslipped I would still want to lynch that.

Not that I'm sure vorkuta is group scum

But goodness

Can we play to our flipping wincon guys

[Vorkuta]

in a recent scum game

That was ongoing
No but I've never rolled against scumthing_smart
I've also never rolled against scum creature before.

Also if we're allowing stuff from ETICN in here then: I'd totally submit everyone's night actions in the scum!PT and wait for others to fix/clarify/overwrite them
I know the mod said something about him not allowing/accepting/approving that but meh

[Vorkuta]

C9++ is a traitor game of mine- way more activity and signaling & crumbing to home base.
Wait this makes my creature interaction look slightly bad now but eeh

[Vorkuta]

I can claim if you guys genuinely think that we have enough to end the game today and need just one more piece of the puzzle or whatever.
I don't think we're there yet, but I got prodded trying to catch up with the gamestate so

[Kublai Khan]

if vorkuta is groupscum who just legitimately traitorslipped I would still want to lynch that.

No, no.. The question was whether or not Vorkuta faked a townslip where he didn't know how Traitors worked in a Normal game. This assumes the mafia group would be familiar with normal rules about traitors.

Right now I'm leaning towards it not being faked and therefore am clearing him from my suspects.

[popsofctown]

Vorkuta I have something for you.

[popsofctown]

I just want to lynch Otter and I feel like this is what needs to happen but everyone’s making it complicated

[Kublai Khan]

What's the LuckyOtter evidence? Because I'm not seeing it.

[Vorkuta]

I can get behind oVOTE: luckyotter though

or do you want me to say stuff about DV?

[popsofctown]

You thought roster was scum kk i'm not gonna try to explain things to you

[Kublai Khan]

ugh.. Okay, I've been segmentally reading this game in chunks over and over to look for connections and I think I need to sleep to digest and hopefully have an epiphany.

Right now the weirdest thing in my mind is the fact that both Creature and RedFlavor voted each other on Day 1:

RedFlavor's votes:
pisskop
ofrhz
Kublai Khan
pisskop
Creature
Jesus Louisus
Creature
Jesus Louisus
Vorkuta
Jesus Louisus

Creature's votes:
Vorkuta
HeWhoSwims (now: nomnomnom)
RedFlavor

Creature's RedFlavor vote in particular was super random as he was the leading wagon and RedFlavor wasn't even on his wagon. The only overlap is Vorkuta (who also voted Creature).

Also, neither were on the Niko townlynch wagon. Which is weird, because it seems really improbable for an all town town-mislynch. The living lynchers from that were: Kirari Momobami, ofrhz, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan, Lil Uzi Vert, & Jesus Louisus

Fun tinfoil hat thought: the it's 3 scum + a traitor and they scum are informed that a traitor is in the game, so nobody in the scumteam wanted to vote Niko because they interpreted the scumclaim entrance to the game as a traitor claim.

That group would include: Vorkuta, LuckyOtter, nomnomnom, & DeasVail.

[Kublai Khan]

You thought roster was scum kk i'm not gonna try to explain things to you

Rude.

[DeasVail]

Not in normals, vork, but thanks for townslipping

Is this a true thing? If so, cool.

Hey, Checking for consensus on this. Reading through, I see that the "traitors get endgamed if all mafia die" was already posted in thread before Vorkuta "slipped" by mentioning it. My gut is telling me that it's a legitimate slip and Vorkuta actually is just kinda lazy town who isn't hard-reading the game.

Does anyone have meta with Vorkuta where he showed signs of extreme cleverness/deviousness?

I don't know if I'm ready to rule out Vorkuta as scum based on it, but it makes me more hesitant to lynch them than I would have been before.

As for Otter, the main reason for me wanting to lynch him is that everyone else in the game gives me at least some reason to think they're town. Obviously not everyone else is town (and I still need to look into nomnom's meta), but there isn't an alternative that I feel better about.

Most recently, I haven't liked Otter's focus on trying to pick apart the case on him, as if he needs to find something to argue against, which I think is a fairly common mindset (where is your case???). He mentions me as his third preference for scum in 2179, yet all game I've sensed a real reluctance from him to engage me or even talk about me, and it's only in 2195 that my poking is "starting to wear" on him. Why not before?

[post=2190] is also very odd, where he states that it was not easy to get rid of either Creature or Red. They died N1 and D2 which is pretty early! It seems kind of weird that town would say that killing them was hard.

[Jesus Louisus]

Can we lynch between nero and pops?

That feels like scum to me.

[Jesus Louisus]

Or should I hammer Otter?

[Jesus Louisus]

INTENT.

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah we should get Otter's claim at this point I think

[LuckyOtter]

I'm at L-2.

DV your questions are weird. I'm more annoyed by you now than before because now there's a wagon on me, and I don't see a good reason for it.

Just because creature and red died early doesn't mean it was easy to make that happen. Like, holy shit this is a weird thing for you to say. The creature wagon fizzled out and he had to get NKd to die, and there was a ton of resistance to voting Red.

I know of has things directed at me and will address them when I can

[Jesus Louisus]

I rescind my intent.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: otter

[Nero Cain]

now you are l-1 and can claim.