Large Normal 221 - Endgame
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Nero Cain Survivor
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lets lynch pop.THEYare prob scum.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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I have actually survived to few enough Normal Game massclaims for it to help my win % as much as old fashioned scumhunting.In post 2495, nomnomnom wrote:
Lmao I know what mountainous is my dudeIn post 2492, popsofctown wrote:nom i know you posted otherwise in MD but you need to come play a super vanilla open setup that is all about dayplay and wallposting and embrace it with both of your arms and learn to love the monster that is mafia played on forum software that was available in 1998
Setup spec is actually important here though because it defines what we're looking for. Isn't that obvious? I don't really understand everyone's confusion about why I think it's capital.
If I keep /inning for FakeGod opens I'll probably never learn enough about normal queue setup spec really.
I'd like to just sheep the setup spec but you and kirari keep disagreeing"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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leash the vig here, i hope the night even/oddness is right for it
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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nomnomnom Jack of All Trades
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Tbh I think the setup talk is over and we're trying to get a good lynch through.In post 2501, popsofctown wrote:
I have actually survived to few enough Normal Game massclaims for it to help my win % as much as old fashioned scumhunting.In post 2495, nomnomnom wrote:
Lmao I know what mountainous is my dudeIn post 2492, popsofctown wrote:nom i know you posted otherwise in MD but you need to come play a super vanilla open setup that is all about dayplay and wallposting and embrace it with both of your arms and learn to love the monster that is mafia played on forum software that was available in 1998
Setup spec is actually important here though because it defines what we're looking for. Isn't that obvious? I don't really understand everyone's confusion about why I think it's capital.
If I keep /inning for FakeGod opens I'll probably never learn enough about normal queue setup spec really.
I'd like to just sheep the setup spec but you and kirari keep disagreeing
I think Of is best shot at flipping scum. Other slots feel like last minute leaps of faith and I don't like that, and I think Otter is town for how Kirari acted around the slot.-
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nomnomnom Jack of All Trades
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Nero Cain Survivor
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I mean, Kirari could just be scum here.Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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is lyncher normal"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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Kirari Momobami Mafia Scum
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Part 3:
nom iso page 3
Here she agrees to do a readslist which she never produces and then backtracks and says she never intended to produceIn post 2304, nomnomnom wrote:
A readslist?In post 2303, Kirari Momobami wrote:I'd still like a list from you nom
I don't feel the need to do it but I guess I can do it later.
"Whaah I can't be scum because it's not like scum is informed of people's alignments or anything! I wasn't even on a mislynch even though scum has literally been avoiding being on mislynches all game!"In post 2313, nomnomnom wrote:
I was on RF's wagon and you guys insisted to get Montosh lynched without a proper case for it and you blame me?In post 2311, Kirari Momobami wrote:I just think she's traitor not killing scum.
No one was singling her out for Montosh, she basically brought it up all on her own. In fact if you go back and look, Montosh's name is not even mentioned in the preceeding three pages LOLIn post 2315, nomnomnom wrote:I wasn't blaming anyone to be on that wagon for what it's worth, just that singling me out for things that happened is weird as fuck.
This is incredibly bad faith since I basically just re-evaluated whether she was SK/traitor based on KK's claim, I never argued she was playing from a traitor perspective, I had her as traitor because of Alch's argument that Creature did not think HWS was same-alignment. So she's failing to actually engage with my read or understand my point of view, which is scummy in that it reflects how quickly she jumped to trying to shade me rather than understand my read.In post 2326, nomnomnom wrote:I'd like to also say that you have pushed me both as a SK and a traitor even though these two roles would approach the game radically differently so I can say with confidence that yes, you are reaching and I have trouble discerning if you are a bad townie or a traitor if KK isn't lying.
Directly contradicts her later statements about her own scumrange and is therefore a caught lieIn post 2330, nomnomnom wrote:
The point was more that for me to come up with scum theatre like this I would need to be better than I already am.In post 2329, Nero Cain wrote:y do u think u r not good @ this game?
I know my weaknesses and this is one of them.
Offtopic but I don't really think I am good honestly, although some people say I am.
A pointless "why me" wallpost that only reflects how little she has bothered to try to understand my read in good faith.In post 2373, nomnomnom wrote:
You do not approach the two roles the same way at all. This is my experience from chat mafia so it might differ from a longer site like this but this is what I think about the two roles.In post 2360, LuckyOtter wrote:
Can you say more about how the approaches would be different? There's a sort of independence to both, no?In post 2326, nomnomnom wrote:I'd like to also say that you have pushed me both as a SK and a traitor even though these two roles would approach the game radically differently so I can say with confidence that yes, you are reaching and I have trouble discerning if you are a bad townie or a traitor if KK isn't lying.
A traitor is not independant because they are still playing for a larger faction and they need to redirect the heat that are on their partners on themselves. I consider it like a half-jester role if that makes sense. Obviously your aim is not to get lynched but if you redirect attention on yourself instead of your groupscum partners, and if you manage to get a maximum of townies lynched before town lynches you for being a bad townie, then you've done your job.
In contrast as SK you do NOT want attention on yourself from either teams. SK is much harder to play than traitor because you need to carefully tone your actions between "too useful" and "not useful enough". If you go either way you risk losing the game because townies will consider you too scummy or scums will consider you unlynchable. You need to play a much tighter game and that's why people consider it a much harder role to play.
Obviously this is only theory and you'll have people trying to subvert expectations but these are two clear archetypes to look for and they're very different type of people to track for, which is why I give a lot of important to KK's claim being true.
When the core of my argument is that you're not town, this is in no way shape or form a contradiction. At no point in this game have you approached the game from a town mindset.In post 2396, nomnomnom wrote:I like that with Kirari's explanation I can simultaneously be SK, traitor and groupscum lmao
Indeed, she has never tried to actually understand my case in a meaningful way. She always goes immediately to deflection and discrediting to push the read off. That she doesn't understand *I never actually cased her* reflects the extent to which she is playing survivalistically.In post 2403, nomnomnom wrote:
Considering that the three roles approach the game differently I feel you're not even trying to state a case on meIn post 2400, Kirari Momobami wrote:
all I know is that you ain't town lolIn post 2396, nomnomnom wrote:I like that with Kirari's explanation I can simultaneously be SK, traitor and groupscum lmao
Again, obviously I'm town so I know it's wrong -- but this is wrong in a scummy, not a townie way. She argues I'm traitor specifically... why? Why would she make this argument? If she thinks I'm scum, why would she not think I'm groupscum? This feels like she is trying to respond to my accusations in kind, again, without, actually understanding why I am accusing her of being traitor and not groupscum for most of this day.In post 2404, nomnomnom wrote:
I like Kirari for a traitor here just because of the atrocious analysis and lies she brought up, gives me a pretty typical bad townie traitor vibe.In post 2401, ofrhz wrote:
I feel like your stated reasons for wanting me lynched are pretty ... weak compared to how much conviction you have in me flipping scum.In post 2378, nomnomnom wrote:Alternatively you could not hammer and follow me on Of.
Who else do you scumread?
A random question given I have been saying she's scum for days and literally just said Otter might be town.In post 2419, nomnomnom wrote:@Kirari you seriously think Otter is town and that I'm scum?
A bizarre, non-townie, over-confident read on someone that she has gone the ENTIRE GAME without reading.In post 2441, nomnomnom wrote:
I am not going to let you redirect town on lynches at will with one day on the clock, are you insane?In post 2437, Kirari Momobami wrote:
WTF? Where did this come from? This is the 7th time you've even said Vork's name this game and at no point have you actually given an opinion on his alignment.In post 2426, nomnomnom wrote:We are not lynching Vork or me today for that matter.
By the way that's now two people that have asked you for a reads list a total of three times, now four, which you still have failed to produce.
But suddenly Vork is someone we're "not lynching" who you've basically had no opinion on the entire game?
You're trying to cause discord throughout the town and lead to bad lynches. You're asking for reads simply so you can gauge your best chance at a mislynch going through. I read you like a book, don't even pretend you're trying to do anything else.
Again, the resistance to the Of wagon is unreal.
"Why aren't people joining on ofrhz when I have never made a remotely compelling argument for her to be scum?"In post 2451, nomnomnom wrote:
There is an inexplicable amount of resistance to your lynch according to the amount of people defending you is what I am saying.In post 2447, ofrhz wrote:
No there are arguments against my lynch?In post 2420, nomnomnom wrote:I'd like to also note that the Of wagon has crazy levels of opposition with literally 0 arguments against her lynch.
DeasVail gave his arguments, Kirari provided a meta-based one, that's just off the top of my head
People have argued for and against otter WAYYYY more than what they've done with you.
lol lynch itIn post 2465, nomnomnom wrote:It's fun that Kirari is trying her hardest to try and decredibilize me whenever I talk about an Of wagon and lynch, and tries to do so by calling my slot a bunch of different scum flavors and is now trying to redirect the heat on me with literally one day on the clock.
If you don't want to believe in my push, just look at how she reacts to my push and perhaps you'll get a clue at what's going on here.The only one who can decide your worth.. is you-
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nomnomnom Jack of All Trades
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she exhibits traitor behavior if scum imoIn post 2505, Nero Cain wrote:I mean, Kirari could just be scum here.-
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nomnomnom Jack of All Trades
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NopeIn post 2506, popsofctown wrote:is lyncher normal-
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Kirari Momobami Mafia Scum
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She's not spending 99% of her time on setup spec, she's spending 50% of her time choosing one tunnel at a time and the other 50% on setup spec, while avoiding talking about 60% of the people in the gameIn post 2489, popsofctown wrote:what if nom spends 99% of noms posts on setup spec not because nom is antitown but because nom comes from chatroom mafiaThe only one who can decide your worth.. is you-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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Kirari is not in the lynchpool today cause if she's town she's probably some kind of PR"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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nomnomnom Jack of All Trades
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SCUM OVERREACTIOnIn post 2510, Kirari Momobami wrote:
She's not spending 99% of her time on setup spec, she's spending 50% of her time choosing one tunnel at a time and the other 50% on setup spec, while avoiding talking about 60% of the people in the gameIn post 2489, popsofctown wrote:what if nom spends 99% of noms posts on setup spec not because nom is antitown but because nom comes from chatroom mafia
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
to anything I say.
So yeah, I don't really want to spend my time around a chaotic element. You will not get a readslist from me today. Get a grip.-
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Kirari Momobami Mafia Scum
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She looks outside her scum range, if you can produce a scum game that looks like this I'm happy to look at itIn post 2491, nomnomnom wrote:Remind me your case for Of town again?The only one who can decide your worth.. is you-
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popsofctown SheSurvivorShe
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nom can you give me a readslist in the mason pt i promise not to tell kirari"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"-
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Kirari Momobami Mafia Scum
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"I'm going to be anti-town and not say my reads on half the player list in a structured way because I have been accused of overreacting"In post 2512, nomnomnom wrote:
SCUM OVERREACTIOnIn post 2510, Kirari Momobami wrote:
She's not spending 99% of her time on setup spec, she's spending 50% of her time choosing one tunnel at a time and the other 50% on setup spec, while avoiding talking about 60% of the people in the gameIn post 2489, popsofctown wrote:what if nom spends 99% of noms posts on setup spec not because nom is antitown but because nom comes from chatroom mafia
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
to anything I say.
So yeah, I don't really want to spend my time around a chaotic element. You will not get a readslist from me today. Get a grip.
Well at least you're consistentThe only one who can decide your worth.. is you-
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DeasVail he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I’m at work and I was hoping to be off work by now so it’s been annoying not being able to devote more energy to this, but re: Pops, I had a moment of paranoia about her after she seemed intent like me on lynching Otter but then just seemed... so easily swayed? But then I though back to the Red thing and no way that comes from a buddy imo. So the main point of that was to indicate that pops also concerns me but that I don’t think she’s concerning as a result of being scum.In post 2498, Nero Cain wrote:"I had the same thought as you Nero, but I doubt pops is scum"
"there are some things about your case on nom to consider but I'm not convinced"
Nom is actually someone I’ve avoided thinking about more closely though in the hope that Otter would be lynched so I’m feeling pretty fencesitty there yeah.-
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nomnomnom Jack of All Trades
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Number of posts is not a good meta argument.In post 2513, Kirari Momobami wrote:
She looks outside her scum range, if you can produce a scum game that looks like this I'm happy to look at itIn post 2491, nomnomnom wrote:Remind me your case for Of town again?
Is that really your entire case on Of, as opposed to the "look at town crumble" behavior she's had?
I'd like to remind you that despite thinking I was scum (I think she said that in a post) she never put her vote anywhere so if that's not trying to act outside the game I don't know what is.-
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Kirari Momobami Mafia Scum
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No, I think in your towngames you're more shitposty and seem to be more consistently having a good time, I think you slightly dislike playing scum and are more reactionary as a resultIn post 2491, nomnomnom wrote:is everything I say a scummy overreaction to you or do you simply not get that I act like this in literally all of my games?The only one who can decide your worth.. is you-
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Nero Cain Survivor
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what makes you think this?In post 2511, popsofctown wrote:Kirari is not in the lynchpool today cause if she's town she's probably some kind of PR
but ok, she can be a pr and we'll lynch her b4 lylo if she's not deadOf all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit-
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nomnomnom Jack of All Trades
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You are obviously trying to find a good case on anyone that isn't Otter and have a last minute lynch on some poor sod and if you do not have all elements you are defaulting to me because you've spent your entire day saying "YEAH SHE IS SCUM BUT OTTER GUYSE".In post 2515, Kirari Momobami wrote:"I'm going to be anti-town and not say my reads on half the player list in a structured way because I have been accused of overreacting"
I refuse to indulge in your shit honestly. You're too turbulent and you cause trouble for clear thought.-
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DeasVail he/himSurvivorhe/him
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And I don’t get the point of this. I’ve said already that I’m planning to look at the game properly given that the Otter wagon has stalled but that I can’t do it right now and that it’s coming and you all need to have more patienceIn post 2499, nomnomnom wrote:
I agree with that.In post 2498, Nero Cain wrote:"I had the same thought as you Nero, but I doubt pops is scum"
"there are some things about your case on nom to consider but I'm not convinced"
@DV Can you detail your thoughts perhaps?-
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nomnomnom Jack of All Trades
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Do me a favor and read this game and tell me if I actually had a good time there: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=79835In post 2518, Kirari Momobami wrote:
No, I think in your towngames you're more shitposty and seem to be more consistently having a good time, I think you slightly dislike playing scum and are more reactionary as a resultIn post 2491, nomnomnom wrote:is everything I say a scummy overreaction to you or do you simply not get that I act like this in literally all of my games?-
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nomnomnom Jack of All Trades
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Dude we have one day on the clock, we have anything but time here.In post 2521, DeasVail wrote:
And I don’t get the point of this. I’ve said already that I’m planning to look at the game properly given that the Otter wagon has stalled but that I can’t do it right now and that it’s coming and you all need to have more patienceIn post 2499, nomnomnom wrote:
I agree with that.In post 2498, Nero Cain wrote:"I had the same thought as you Nero, but I doubt pops is scum"
"there are some things about your case on nom to consider but I'm not convinced"
@DV Can you detail your thoughts perhaps?-
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Kirari Momobami Mafia Scum
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You really shouldn't ignore scummy overreactions, they're pretty clutch to tonereadsIn post 2494, DeasVail wrote:Also Kirari there are some things you’ve mentioned about nom that I want to consider but I’m not as convinced by things such as “scummy overreaction” stuff.
I also know I asked before, and I may have missed your response to it, but what does nom do as town that is different from what they have done here.
Town nom is more playful and more excited to townblock, something she has done in this game only in a forced and unnatural manner
Like ask yourself, given we have been asking her for a reads list, who does she townread in this game--like just townread? She had 3 townreads in her first day in the game, one of which was me lol. Since then...? She only argued Otter was town because I was pushing the slot which is probably the most inorganic way to townread someone there isThe only one who can decide your worth.. is you
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