Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[Nero Cain]

lets lynch pop.

THEY

are prob scum.

[popsofctown]

nom i know you posted otherwise in MD but you need to come play a super vanilla open setup that is all about dayplay and wallposting and embrace it with both of your arms and learn to love the monster that is mafia played on forum software that was available in 1998

Lmao I know what mountainous is my dude
Setup spec is actually important here though because it defines what we're looking for. Isn't that obvious? I don't really understand everyone's confusion about why I think it's capital.

I have actually survived to few enough Normal Game massclaims for it to help my win % as much as old fashioned scumhunting.

If I keep /inning for FakeGod opens I'll probably never learn enough about normal queue setup spec really.

I'd like to just sheep the setup spec but you and kirari keep disagreeing

[popsofctown]

lets lynch pop.

THEY

are prob scum.

leash the vig here, i hope the night even/oddness is right for it

[nomnomnom]

nom i know you posted otherwise in MD but you need to come play a super vanilla open setup that is all about dayplay and wallposting and embrace it with both of your arms and learn to love the monster that is mafia played on forum software that was available in 1998

Lmao I know what mountainous is my dude
Setup spec is actually important here though because it defines what we're looking for. Isn't that obvious? I don't really understand everyone's confusion about why I think it's capital.

I have actually survived to few enough Normal Game massclaims for it to help my win % as much as old fashioned scumhunting.

If I keep /inning for FakeGod opens I'll probably never learn enough about normal queue setup spec really.

I'd like to just sheep the setup spec but you and kirari keep disagreeing

Tbh I think the setup talk is over and we're trying to get a good lynch through.
I think Of is best shot at flipping scum. Other slots feel like last minute leaps of faith and I don't like that, and I think Otter is town for how Kirari acted around the slot.

[nomnomnom]

I think listening to Kirari reduces chances of town closing this game for the amount of headless chicken syndrome she displayed today.

[Nero Cain]

I mean, Kirari could just be scum here.

[popsofctown]

is lyncher normal

[Kirari Momobami]

Part 3:

nom iso page 3

I'd still like a list from you nom

A readslist?
I don't feel the need to do it but I guess I can do it later.

Here she agrees to do a readslist which she never produces and then backtracks and says she never intended to produce

I just think she's traitor not killing scum.

I was on RF's wagon and you guys insisted to get Montosh lynched without a proper case for it and you blame me?

"Whaah I can't be scum because it's not like scum is informed of people's alignments or anything! I wasn't even on a mislynch even though scum has literally been avoiding being on mislynches all game!"

I wasn't blaming anyone to be on that wagon for what it's worth, just that singling me out for things that happened is weird as fuck.

No one was singling her out for Montosh, she basically brought it up all on her own. In fact if you go back and look, Montosh's name is not even mentioned in the preceeding three pages LOL

I'd like to also say that you have pushed me both as a SK and a traitor even though these two roles would approach the game radically differently so I can say with confidence that yes, you are reaching and I have trouble discerning if you are a bad townie or a traitor if KK isn't lying.

This is incredibly bad faith since I basically just re-evaluated whether she was SK/traitor based on KK's claim, I never argued she was playing from a traitor perspective, I had her as traitor because of Alch's argument that Creature did not think HWS was same-alignment. So she's failing to actually engage with my read or understand my point of view, which is scummy in that it reflects how quickly she jumped to trying to shade me rather than understand my read.

y do u think u r not good @ this game?

The point was more that for me to come up with scum theatre like this I would need to be better than I already am.
I know my weaknesses and this is one of them.

Offtopic but I don't really think I am good honestly, although some people say I am.

Directly contradicts her later statements about her own scumrange and is therefore a caught lie

I'd like to also say that you have pushed me both as a SK and a traitor even though these two roles would approach the game radically differently so I can say with confidence that yes, you are reaching and I have trouble discerning if you are a bad townie or a traitor if KK isn't lying.

Can you say more about how the approaches would be different? There's a sort of independence to both, no?

You do not approach the two roles the same way at all. This is my experience from chat mafia so it might differ from a longer site like this but this is what I think about the two roles.

A traitor is not independant because they are still playing for a larger faction and they need to redirect the heat that are on their partners on themselves. I consider it like a half-jester role if that makes sense. Obviously your aim is not to get lynched but if you redirect attention on yourself instead of your groupscum partners, and if you manage to get a maximum of townies lynched before town lynches you for being a bad townie, then you've done your job.

In contrast as SK you do NOT want attention on yourself from either teams. SK is much harder to play than traitor because you need to carefully tone your actions between "too useful" and "not useful enough". If you go either way you risk losing the game because townies will consider you too scummy or scums will consider you unlynchable. You need to play a much tighter game and that's why people consider it a much harder role to play.

Obviously this is only theory and you'll have people trying to subvert expectations but these are two clear archetypes to look for and they're very different type of people to track for, which is why I give a lot of important to KK's claim being true.

A pointless "why me" wallpost that only reflects how little she has bothered to try to understand my read in good faith.

I like that with Kirari's explanation I can simultaneously be SK, traitor and groupscum lmao

When the core of my argument is that you're not town, this is in no way shape or form a contradiction. At no point in this game have you approached the game from a town mindset.

I like that with Kirari's explanation I can simultaneously be SK, traitor and groupscum lmao

all I know is that you ain't town lol

Considering that the three roles approach the game differently I feel you're not even trying to state a case on me

Indeed, she has never tried to actually understand my case in a meaningful way. She always goes immediately to deflection and discrediting to push the read off. That she doesn't understand *I never actually cased her* reflects the extent to which she is playing survivalistically.

Alternatively you could not hammer and follow me on Of.

I feel like your stated reasons for wanting me lynched are pretty ... weak compared to how much conviction you have in me flipping scum.

Who else do you scumread?

I like Kirari for a traitor here just because of the atrocious analysis and lies she brought up, gives me a pretty typical bad townie traitor vibe.

Again, obviously I'm town so I know it's wrong -- but this is wrong in a scummy, not a townie way. She argues I'm traitor specifically... why? Why would she make this argument? If she thinks I'm scum, why would she not think I'm groupscum? This feels like she is trying to respond to my accusations in kind, again, without, actually understanding why I am accusing her of being traitor and not groupscum for most of this day.

@Kirari you seriously think Otter is town and that I'm scum?

A random question given I have been saying she's scum for days and literally just said Otter might be town.

We are not lynching Vork or me today for that matter.

WTF? Where did this come from? This is the 7th time you've even said Vork's name this game and at no point have you actually given an opinion on his alignment.

By the way that's now two people that have asked you for a reads list a total of three times, now four, which you still have failed to produce.

But suddenly Vork is someone we're "not lynching" who you've basically had no opinion on the entire game?

I am not going to let you redirect town on lynches at will with one day on the clock, are you insane?
You're trying to cause discord throughout the town and lead to bad lynches. You're asking for reads simply so you can gauge your best chance at a mislynch going through. I read you like a book, don't even pretend you're trying to do anything else.

Again, the resistance to the Of wagon is unreal.

A bizarre, non-townie, over-confident read on someone that she has gone the ENTIRE GAME without reading.

I'd like to also note that the Of wagon has crazy levels of opposition with literally 0 arguments against her lynch.

No there are arguments against my lynch?

DeasVail gave his arguments, Kirari provided a meta-based one, that's just off the top of my head

There is an inexplicable amount of resistance to your lynch according to the amount of people defending you is what I am saying.

People have argued for and against otter WAYYYY more than what they've done with you.

"Why aren't people joining on ofrhz when I have never made a remotely compelling argument for her to be scum?"

It's fun that Kirari is trying her hardest to try and decredibilize me whenever I talk about an Of wagon and lynch, and tries to do so by calling my slot a bunch of different scum flavors and is now trying to redirect the heat on me with literally one day on the clock.

If you don't want to believe in my push, just look at how she reacts to my push and perhaps you'll get a clue at what's going on here.

lol lynch it

[nomnomnom]

I mean, Kirari could just be scum here.

she exhibits traitor behavior if scum imo

[nomnomnom]

is lyncher normal

Nope

[Kirari Momobami]

what if nom spends 99% of noms posts on setup spec not because nom is antitown but because nom comes from chatroom mafia

She's not spending 99% of her time on setup spec, she's spending 50% of her time choosing one tunnel at a time and the other 50% on setup spec, while avoiding talking about 60% of the people in the game

[popsofctown]

Kirari is not in the lynchpool today cause if she's town she's probably some kind of PR

[nomnomnom]

what if nom spends 99% of noms posts on setup spec not because nom is antitown but because nom comes from chatroom mafia

She's not spending 99% of her time on setup spec, she's spending 50% of her time choosing one tunnel at a time and the other 50% on setup spec, while avoiding talking about 60% of the people in the game

SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn

to anything I say.

So yeah, I don't really want to spend my time around a chaotic element. You will not get a readslist from me today. Get a grip.

[Kirari Momobami]

Remind me your case for Of town again?

She looks outside her scum range, if you can produce a scum game that looks like this I'm happy to look at it

[popsofctown]

nom can you give me a readslist in the mason pt i promise not to tell kirari

[Kirari Momobami]

what if nom spends 99% of noms posts on setup spec not because nom is antitown but because nom comes from chatroom mafia

She's not spending 99% of her time on setup spec, she's spending 50% of her time choosing one tunnel at a time and the other 50% on setup spec, while avoiding talking about 60% of the people in the game

SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn
SCUM OVERREACTIOn

to anything I say.

So yeah, I don't really want to spend my time around a chaotic element. You will not get a readslist from me today. Get a grip.

"I'm going to be anti-town and not say my reads on half the player list in a structured way because I have been accused of overreacting"

Well at least you're consistent

[DeasVail]

"I had the same thought as you Nero, but I doubt pops is scum"

"there are some things about your case on nom to consider but I'm not convinced"

I’m at work and I was hoping to be off work by now so it’s been annoying not being able to devote more energy to this, but re: Pops, I had a moment of paranoia about her after she seemed intent like me on lynching Otter but then just seemed... so easily swayed? But then I though back to the Red thing and no way that comes from a buddy imo. So the main point of that was to indicate that pops also concerns me but that I don’t think she’s concerning as a result of being scum.

Nom is actually someone I’ve avoided thinking about more closely though in the hope that Otter would be lynched so I’m feeling pretty fencesitty there yeah.

[nomnomnom]

Remind me your case for Of town again?

She looks outside her scum range, if you can produce a scum game that looks like this I'm happy to look at it

Number of posts is not a good meta argument.
Is that really your entire case on Of, as opposed to the "look at town crumble" behavior she's had?
I'd like to remind you that despite thinking I was scum (I think she said that in a post) she never put her vote anywhere so if that's not trying to act outside the game I don't know what is.

[Kirari Momobami]

is everything I say a scummy overreaction to you or do you simply not get that I act like this in literally all of my games?

No, I think in your towngames you're more shitposty and seem to be more consistently having a good time, I think you slightly dislike playing scum and are more reactionary as a result

[Nero Cain]

Kirari is not in the lynchpool today cause if she's town she's probably some kind of PR

what makes you think this?

but ok, she can be a pr and we'll lynch her b4 lylo if she's not dead

[nomnomnom]

"I'm going to be anti-town and not say my reads on half the player list in a structured way because I have been accused of overreacting"

You are obviously trying to find a good case on anyone that isn't Otter and have a last minute lynch on some poor sod and if you do not have all elements you are defaulting to me because you've spent your entire day saying "YEAH SHE IS SCUM BUT OTTER GUYSE".

I refuse to indulge in your shit honestly. You're too turbulent and you cause trouble for clear thought.

[DeasVail]

"I had the same thought as you Nero, but I doubt pops is scum"

"there are some things about your case on nom to consider but I'm not convinced"

I agree with that.

@DV Can you detail your thoughts perhaps?

And I don’t get the point of this. I’ve said already that I’m planning to look at the game properly given that the Otter wagon has stalled but that I can’t do it right now and that it’s coming and you all need to have more patience

[nomnomnom]

is everything I say a scummy overreaction to you or do you simply not get that I act like this in literally all of my games?

No, I think in your towngames you're more shitposty and seem to be more consistently having a good time, I think you slightly dislike playing scum and are more reactionary as a result

Do me a favor and read this game and tell me if I actually had a good time there: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=79835

[nomnomnom]

"I had the same thought as you Nero, but I doubt pops is scum"

"there are some things about your case on nom to consider but I'm not convinced"

I agree with that.

@DV Can you detail your thoughts perhaps?

And I don’t get the point of this. I’ve said already that I’m planning to look at the game properly given that the Otter wagon has stalled but that I can’t do it right now and that it’s coming and you all need to have more patience

Dude we have one day on the clock, we have anything but time here.

[Kirari Momobami]

Also Kirari there are some things you’ve mentioned about nom that I want to consider but I’m not as convinced by things such as “scummy overreaction” stuff.

I also know I asked before, and I may have missed your response to it, but what does nom do as town that is different from what they have done here.

You really shouldn't ignore scummy overreactions, they're pretty clutch to tonereads

Town nom is more playful and more excited to townblock, something she has done in this game only in a forced and unnatural manner

Like ask yourself, given we have been asking her for a reads list, who does she townread in this game--like just townread? She had 3 townreads in her first day in the game, one of which was me lol. Since then...? She only argued Otter was town because I was pushing the slot which is probably the most inorganic way to townread someone there is