The Mystery Box Of Silver 5: Clash of Cash death grips

[skitter30]

oh i see now

in the first game scum had to give out an ic bp, that was fun for them

but like i think mastina's thing and our thing came from different sources ?

[ElevenThirty]

oh i see now

in the first game scum had to give out an ic bp, that was fun for them

but like i think mastina's thing and our thing came from different sources ?

[YAYVIDEOGAMES]

yeah mastina was pretty obviously getting power from scum

you might have been getting power from the third party leavers?

-k

[YAYVIDEOGAMES]

No idea really though, that's all deep dark whole of setup spec that seems kinda pointless to answer anyway

why do you think the power is from different sources? just cause it different?

[ElevenThirty]

she got it at different times of the day than us (in middle of the day vs at nightfall) +
her's keeps getting new add-ons

makes me think it's not the same kind of role change

i'm going to be heading to bed now, so g'night; we can pick this up later

[Toogeloo]

iso 22, he reveals that literally any visiting town in the game can vig him if they want LOL

why does he claim this?

because he's fucking Toog

I don't know how I should feel right now.

[Rhinox]

my god you guys

[ElevenThirty]

what's that rhinox

On my phone now. When I get home to my computer I'll say more.

Lot's of cavalier votes being thrown around for suspected lylo...

@rhinox

can you clarify ?

[Rhinox]

clarity post in progress

[ElevenThirty]

For clarity, *I* think Mastina is more likely to be an arsonist than an SK

-Irrel (lol I weirdly almost signed my real name here)

[ElevenThirty]

I said I thought relly overreacting and getting tilted was kinda scummy given this game is clearly lulzy.

Yeah but I'm also very competitive and kinda pissed that e.g. Chickadee/Creature/Wh4t//zeebu were all town and not really playing to town wincon very hard
Like I care about my winrate more than I like to admit so

Not sure what scum motivation you think I have to get angry here, if I'm scum I'm doing awesome

_Irrel

[Rhinox]

OK first things first Mastina's 2518 she's assuming a 3-person scum team. We know she's assuming that because she's eliminating groupings based on X can't be with Y logic. She's doing this without locking Toog into group scum which is bad and wrong.

3S:3T:neutral survivor is unwinable for town when everyone is playing towards their wincon. I'd be disappointed if this gamestate wasn't just an automatic endgamed. So this makes the majority of 2518 garbage basically. Bad logic at best, manipulation at worst. Mastina is a smart player who has been around here long enough to know what a NS means in a vanilla lylo scenario.

Also Toog is not really playing/thinking like a NS here. A NS wouldn't just be "willing" to vote whoever in suspected lylo/mylo, they'd be actually doing it. If the gamestate were 3S:3T:NS and not endgamed for some reason, then the correct NS play is to vote and keep moving votes until scum pile on and end the game. That's probably the best play for a NS once town can't just PL which may be the case now.

So in a 3player scum team, toog is scum, unless shenanigans.

Shenanigans where toog can be what he says:
-if there's a 3player scum team and NS AND some other mutually exclusive 3P wincon
-if there's 2plyr scum team and NS, then this is not actually lylo (and a toog policy lynch should be considered in this scenario anyways)

In the mountainous world, 10:2, 11:2 is the balance sweet spot. If there's a 2plyr scumteam AND toog is a NS, I think there's still probably at least one other 3P out there, or scum team needs to be buffed up. Actually my secret theory is that town wincon is mechanically impossible already and that's what triggered the 3 non-players to exit the game, and the game is still ongoing because various scum and 3P wincons are possible and mutually exclusive, but this is not a gamestate I want to exist in so I'm going to proceed as if I'm not totally fucked and wasting my time right now.

Back to Mastina's post and time for me to claim. When i replaced in i was an ascetic townie. D3 twilight i received a 1-shot vig and shot zeebu. (side note: for most of the game I assumed my role prevented me from ever receiving an ability but I did so i guess instead it means either the role granting mechanic isn't a normal targetting mechanic, or the ascetic only applies to night actions, or whatever. doesn't really matter tbh)

So I immediately have issues with Mastina's claim because:

-2 vig claims
-Mastina claimed as X-shot when I explicitly received 1-shot
-Mastina claimed to receive the role at night. I received my PM in twilight. I think every other role that was claimed to be received was given day phases or twilight (1130 can you confirm this?)
-claiming to receive a role at night, and then being able to use it the same night. The timing makes that mechanically unreliable and dependent on activity, which (totally outguessing the mod here but) I don't expect from the smooth operator award winning mod.
-shooting wh4t

my reasoning in shooting zeebu is that it seemed we were heading towards a PL day anyways, and I wanted to remove the suspected survivor claim with the most uncertainty around it. Toog seemed very likely to be exactly what he said, seemed more worthwhile to sort out zeebu. wh4t is a terrible vig shot with 2 possible survivor claims in play and the assumption that using the vig shot likely pushes the game to an 5:3 mylo state at best if it doesn't hit scum (4:1:3, 3:2:3 are both endgameable gamestates if 1 or both survivors are/were survivors) where policy lynching the survivors becomes impossible. The correct play is always to vig the 3P here and then lynch scum. Shooting wh4t makes sense if Mastina is some kind of sk or other 3P with a shot trying to eliminate mafia, however, which I hadn't considered until reading some of 1130's thoughts posted today. Initially I was thinking she could be groupscum with toog based on the first half of this post.

[ElevenThirty]

Well that claim sorta makes mastina not 3P though. I was looking to explain the multiple kills when I postulated that mastina could be an arsonist partially-true-claiming

I'm tempted to townread all the players who received power roles but for obvious reasons that seems dangerous.

But I WILL say "two non-groupscum are given a single vig shot each" is very MBOS and both of the shots make sense to me from a town POV, given I was telling skitter in the night phase that I was planning to 1v1 Wh4t when this gameday started and zeebu just. wasn't playing like a town/needed to be sorted

-Irrel

[ElevenThirty]

Otoh mastina as groupscum with toog also shoots Wh4t here I guess so that's not really proof of her towniness

-Irrel

[ElevenThirty]

Yay explain why Pisskop is "obvtown" here, he's the only one I have 0 reason to townread after toog. Not going to vote him in this moment given maybe-lylo but I would be voting him in other gamestates

-Irrel

[pisskop]

yea but you aren't here now because Im a pro at gamestating.

and also I just stopped playing for a while. thats called life.

[YAYVIDEOGAMES]

Ftr

Mastina is provably locktown and is 100% off the table until the end of the game

You are wasting your time trying to read her.

~Pichu

[ElevenThirty]

Ftr

Mastina is provably locktown and is 100% off the table until the end of the game

You are wasting your time trying to read her.

~Pichu

I'm under the impression today might be the end of the game.
Why is mastina locktown in lylo

[ElevenThirty]

Ftr

Mastina is provably locktown and is 100% off the table until the end of the game

You are wasting your time trying to read her.

~Pichu

I'm under the impression today might be the end of the game.
Why is mastina locktown in lylo

-irrel

[YAYVIDEOGAMES]

The only proof you need is that this slot didn't die N1 to prove that we are scum together if she's scum

And we aren't scum together because wh4t is a garbage kill for us

So mastina is locktown

~ Pichu

[ElevenThirty]

Oh I get it. You always read mastina correctly and feel completely confident again here. Sure, I'm willing to agree that the only way mastina is scum is if you're not town.
Toog is either scum or there's only 2 groupscum, right? Is that where we're all collectively at? We think toog is the optimal lynch.

If we were going off reads, I'd lynch pisskop rn. More on that in a bit

-Irrel

[pisskop]

Mastina is provably locktown and is 100% off the table until the end of the game

You are wasting your time trying to read her.

i havent read. im just omgusing.

[YAYVIDEOGAMES]

Oh I get it. You always read mastina correctly and feel completely confident again here. Sure, I'm willing to agree that the only way mastina is scum is if you're not town.
Toog is either scum or there's only 2 groupscum, right? Is that where we're all collectively at? We think toog is the optimal lynch.

If we were going off reads, I'd lynch pisskop rn. More on that in a bit

-Irrel

Anyone believe that this is in any way a town response?

~ Pichu

[YAYVIDEOGAMES]

Btw I've changed my mind, Toog is not a good lynch at all today

It's always between 1130 and us today

[ElevenThirty]

Oh I get it. You always read mastina correctly and feel completely confident again here. Sure, I'm willing to agree that the only way mastina is scum is if you're not town.
Toog is either scum or there's only 2 groupscum, right? Is that where we're all collectively at? We think toog is the optimal lynch.

If we were going off reads, I'd lynch pisskop rn. More on that in a bit

-Irrel

Anyone believe that this is in any way a town response?

~ Pichu

Name. A. Reason. Why. This. Is. Scummy. Or. G. T. F. O.

-Irrel