Role Call I (Game Over)

[Dunnstral]

Yeah that's still my stance on LUV. I've seen a couple posts that seem like townLUV and a couple posts that seem like scumLUV this game but I really want to break this game with mechanics even if the scum are outplaying us and one of the ways to do that is to get 2 reads out of the Friendly Neighbor instead of 1.

OK but does town Cheeky = Scum Lil uzi vert ?

[popsofctown]

Yeah that's still my stance on LUV. I've seen a couple posts that seem like townLUV and a couple posts that seem like scumLUV this game but I really want to break this game with mechanics even if the scum are outplaying us and one of the ways to do that is to get 2 reads out of the Friendly Neighbor instead of 1.

OK but does town Cheeky = Scum Lil uzi vert ?

The is some % it does since based on LUV's playstyle I suspect he busses much less than rand. And proposing a townslot for d5 IC would be a good play as scum (particularly with RCscum, but also with any scum).

But not in any slamdunk way. If you feel Lil Uzi Vert's scumminess is a -tier- above alternatives I suggest like A50 and Gamma Emerald it is very plausible that your correct stance would be "lynch Lil Uzi Vert anyways" but I read him as scummy but not a tier scummier. probably actually scummier than A50 and GE, just not by a tier
I'm pretty willing to agree to disagree on it

[popsofctown]

oh you know what's an important question

i'm pretty sure it's a no though

@callforjudgment, presuming next day's role sheet has a normal queue Vigilante role, would LUV's macho status cause him to be unable to be protected from that vigilante by the scum's factional rolestop?

[popsofctown]

i think he's gonna say no cause the chrono ruling was based on whether the role was "tagged" as protective or not and i don't think the factional rolestop is "tagged" that way but it's good to ask

[Dunnstral]

Macho (Passive): Protective roles will fail when used on you.

Wiki entry for rolestopper:

Role type:
Protective
Manipulative

[Dunnstral]

That's not the mafiascum normal definition of macho by the way

"Macho is a role modifier that prevents players from being protected from kills in any way. "

That's the normal definition, with the way his macho is worded it implies:
Jailkeeper's can't roleblock him
Rolestopped does nothing on him, even to stop abilities that aren't harmful, like a friendly neighbor

[callforjudgement]

@callforjudgment, presuming next day's role sheet has a normal queue Vigilante role, would LUV's macho status cause him to be unable to be protected from that vigilante by the scum's factional rolestop?

The scum's Rolestop role is not tagged as

Protective

, so it would have no interaction with Macho. If you need to see the exact wording of scum factional abilities, they are available in the sample role PM in post #2.

(For what it's worth, the Normal version of Macho interacts with only Doctor and Bodyguard. This game isn't always using Normal definitions, though; if the exact behaviour of a role matters, look up the exact wording or ask me.)

[Dunnstral]

Normal version of Macho interacts with only Doctor and Bodyguard.

Spoiler: Off topic rant

As a rules lawyer I disagree and say it technically interacts with jailkeeper and the like as well because it does not explicitly say that it does not. That is, nowhere in the normal guidelines does it say that it

only

negates the effect from doctor and bodyguard, which is the key word that is missing where that would be true.

By default, the role works for a jailkeeper that is protecting a target, and nothing about the normal guidelines changes that - the role as a whole is considered normal, so... just saying that it negates doctor and bodyguard does not mean that it suddenly stops working for jailkeeper, it reads to me as more of a clarification for newbie mods, and a dangerous one.

There's no doubt that what it says is misleading. There is, also, no doubt in what it says. In my mind, the only argument for jailkeeper not affecting a macho role in a normal game is intent - that is, that it wasn't meant to affect jailkeeper.

For the record, this extends to other roles like babysitter, hider if you're a macho hider for some reason.

Actually, the role is even more confusing than that. "Macho is a role modifier that prevents players from being protected from kills in any way." - what if you roleblock the person performing the kill, does that not count? What if you're a macho commuter?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure people running normal games run it the "right" way - As for me, I'd prefer to run it exactly as the guidelines say it should it be run... which is "Macho is a role modifier that prevents players from being protected from kills in any way. " combined with "It negates the effects of a Doctor or Bodyguard protecting it" - nothing more, nothing less.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@LUV/apthet:

Who do you want to lynch/stump?

Cheeky, Creature, and HH.

[Dunnstral]

Do you realize that Cheeky was given the friendly neighbor invention?

Also, for all 3, why?

[apthet]

@LUV/apthet:

Who do you want to lynch/stump?

Good question. I feel very paranoid about pops trying to delay the LUV elimination because of Cheeky association. But I am willing to wait and see for a day. And, the fact that Creature is so willing to be stumped... it makes me think he's just town. And I also worry that he stops paying attention to the game after a stump.

I'm still fine stumping Creature, though. I think I wouldn't mind stumping, say, momo. He's already pretty disengaged and that would get rid of paranoia around him. And he has the potential to be helpful for town if he decides to get back into the game. But I think he's also town. Maybe stump AP? Or eliminate AP? I'm also sort of reconsidering Hidden Happiness too. If I had to say, maybe AP as Quitter and Creature as stump.

I don't have a read on creature

Why would town be fine being treestumped?

But like, why would scum be? That's equivalent to a death for scum.
Is Creature really playing this WIFOM game? That seems not like his personality.

Ok as I have recently discovered her name also changes to Beautiful and Intelligent Scholarship Student Isis.

Beautiful and intelligent popsofctown.

I will somewhat whimsically guess at a team of Titus / Lil Uzi Vert / popsofctown.

D2's Apthet Guess: Lil Uzi Vert / AP / Hidden Happiness. I am prepared to be egged in the face postgame for my levels of wrong.

[apthet]

I considered LUV / AP / pops. But there are a lot of town things that pops is saying (I mean she's not like a near-universal townread for no reason). And she would have had to not used the rolestop or the kill. I think pops was an unexpected Motion Detector choice... yes. I think that points to town there.

But the associations make so much sense!! Weak bussing between AP and pops, and pops / LUV... Maybe AP doesn't make sense with LUV bc of the proposal. It is a little forward. But not out of the question. I think it would be a restrictive policy for scum to decide never to bus in the proposal.

I really need to see a LUV flip, I think.

[apthet]

Thinking about it, I feel that Cheeky really does have a solid chance to flip scum as well though.

[pisskop]

cheeks is an ic.


let it be

[popsofctown]

And she would have had to not used the rolestop or the kill. I think pops was an unexpected Motion Detector choice... yes. I think that points to town there.

Scum are multi-acting, so if they surely assigned the same person to do the kill to also rolestop. It's a 1/3rd clear not a 2/3rds clear, + even less than that if I am scum with Gamma Emerald or apthet (who would triple multiact and have fully explained motion).

I'm starting to think a strategy with an X% of sane copping my slot my be worth it. It's kind of more like burning 1 role than 2 because the psychologist is so weak. The tracker could and psych could each agree to like, a 30% chance of investigating me? Some amount of chance of cooperating that makes it difficult to decide whether to rolestop onto me. This game is slowly getting sorted and ICing a slot with no power could actually be really powerful.

There's a beneficial side affect to focusing night behavior towards my slot, Teeky becomes less likely to get roleblocked, and I doubt she was interested in visiting me tonight anyway because she kinda hates me.

[Bingle]

^bad strat.

First, you’re one of the more readable people based on your dayplay.
Second, if you’re scum you just rolestop yourself and don’t worry about it, meaning we don’t actually catch you. And it makes sense you’d be rolestopped as town BECAUSE of the potential for you to become an IC, so it’s not even a pseudo guilty.

If a tracker/psychiatrist claimed a result on you it would be a decent target, but aiming them remains counter productive.

[popsofctown]

Jingle why can't you keep all the dreamcrushing in the open queue

[popsofctown]

Also

Saying it was hard to read me is why I thought you were Shadoweh. Do you really find me hard to read, Maria? I don't think I've ever been told that.

Yes!

First, you’re one of the more readable people based on your dayplay.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

[popsofctown]

Not voting (6): momo, pisskop, apthet, Dunnstral, Gamma Emerald, Creature

These people.
Vote on the proposal
Also vote on Jingle's unofficial votecount where he mods too many games and then tries to play one and then makes a special account for how he's gonna stop modding but then he starts modding this game as a player
I don't think people should explicitly hold off on proposals while the unofficial votecount is running its course, I think the more game tempo the better, especially when we are fighting "arguably scumsided dayplay dynamic" here like in Anyone Can Post

[Bingle]

^

[pisskop]

Night 2 Bulletproof: apthet
Captain: AP
Chronomage: Hidden Happiness
Doublevoter: Bingle
Neighbour: Gamma Emerald
Day 3 Post Restricted: momo
Psychologist: popsofctown
Revisor: CheekyTeeky
Night 3 Compulsive Role Caller: Dunnstral
Even-Night Tracker: pisskop
Treestump: Creature
Compulsive Quitter: Lil Uzi Vert

Id rather stump luv/momo, kill ap/momo, , restrict ap/luv

critter can be captain faic

[pisskop]

VOTE: against


bingle dv is kind of meh

[Hidden Happiness]

Thinking about it, I feel that Cheeky really does have a solid chance to flip scum as well though.

Well it's your fault we can't really lynch CT today so you should have thought about that! Sending it to my biggest scumread is probably what I would have done too though.

pops you're the most dangerous of all, the kind of person no one WANTS to read as scum because you lighten up the place.

Not voting (6): momo, pisskop, apthet, Dunnstral, Gamma Emerald, Creature

These people.
Vote on the proposal
Also vote on Jingle's unofficial votecount where he mods too many games and then tries to play one and then makes a special account for how he's gonna stop modding but then he starts modding this game as a player
I don't think people should explicitly hold off on proposals while the unofficial votecount is running its course, I think the more game tempo the better, especially when we are fighting "arguably scumsided dayplay dynamic" here like in Anyone Can Post

Seriously this, I like the pops and Bingle Gameshow more then the average person but we need more of an idea what's actually going to pass here. - Shadoweh

[Creature]

So what are all the mechanical info we have rn?

[Creature]

I'll try to give this game a shot