Mini 2090 CYS: AtmosFEAR of Terrors

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Hello.

I'm flying to the east coast tomorrow night (redeye), so i'll be more or less v/la for a bit, really don't know how much time/energy i'll have for the next couple days but will have plenty of time over the next week.

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it's an interesting statement because if someone not in that set votes for someone else not in that set, then that person is scum, and anyone who votes for them must be bussing!

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can he repeat rhymes? Like if we developed a code for yes/no posts, do you think we could make his life easier?

this seems like it would contravene lld's intent; bold move.

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Scum was actually my third pick this game.

Shake things up a bit.

i feel like i might have believed this if you said it in a way that was even slightly believable.

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imo we should eschew normal scumhunting completely, and instead *exclusively* discuss what order we think people put things in and the implications thereof.

For instance, kuribo is probably lying about putting scum as his third choice, but is nonetheless town who ordered his picks as town > scum > third party.

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now that i've made that post i realize there's a very niche theoretical world in which some third party or scum role cares about what order our preferences were in and that would be amusing.

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Why does anything matter?

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Or to be explicit,

For instance, kuribo is probably lying about putting scum as his third choice, but is nonetheless town who ordered his picks as town > scum > third party.

why does this matter??????????????

This wasn't supposed to mean anything, it was entirely sarcastic.

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hello there, i am in a strong state of Kind of Having Gotten Any Sleep

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I think...I dunno. It's probably NAI? Gimmick-y gameplay happens as any alignment. When Aeronaut and I made Caesar Wills It before Civ mafia, we decided to do it before roles and alignments were randed.

This is a weird thing to say from someone who has explicitly faked a post restriction as scum so as to not have to play the game directly.

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Pine, please tell me you aren't actually serious about thinking Katsuki claimed third party unsarcastically. I find it really hard to believe you're making this argument in good faith and also really hard to believe that you're actually pretending to think it.

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I kind of gut townread TL. Probably less controversially, Gamma. Also maaaybe Plum. Also kuribo.

I can see Pine as scum/hostilethirdparty but i am honestly tempted to make some shitty kind of too scummy to be scum argument bc he's doing some really funky stuff. I don't really mind the pressure he's under. It's just like, funky is the only accurate way to describe his posting, he's just making so many weird unimportant points. Idk what that means.

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Kinda dislike skygazer's iso a lot at a glance and Maria's one major post above kinda also feels pretty eh imo.

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yes that is what the "hard to believe you're actually pretending to think it" half of that sentence means

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pine's iso is just performance art

i'm just not sure what subgenre thereof

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pine's iso is just performance art

i'm just not sure what subgenre thereof

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW SUCH PERFORMANCE ART FROM TOWN?

Never.
Last time from scum, also never.
I guess that makes him third party.

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I do actually think Kats is a Lyncher. It's by far the best explanation for his behavior, and has literally (not figuratively) done absolutely nothing so far but attack me, despite having the fourth highest post total. I think he's ballsy enough to claim it, thinking he won't be taken seriously. This is bastard mod, remember? With explicit third party? Lyncher satisfies that.

this is actually incredible

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did you think picking town would save you from the onslaught of "pine will definitely pick scum" arguments?

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but katsuki that's so many posts how am i supposed to know which one makes pine scum

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Implosion, do me a favor. Throw out the "Lynchers don't exist" preconception you have, and ISO Katsuki. Show me one post - just one - which doesn't fit a Lyncher.

this argument in isolation is also just deeply, deeply hilarious.

there's no onus on me to prove that someone isn't a lyncher.

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and you know damn well there's no single post that katsuki has made that it's impossible for katsuki to have made as a lyncher. that's a meaningless assertion. There's no goddamn reason to lyncherhunt.

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sorry, you know damn well that i know that, and that it's meaningless.

There isn't a single post *you* have made that's inconsistent with you being a lyncher either.

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doesn't town!pine at least like, claim here or something. it's a no-flip game. you gotta give us something to work with if you're actually town.

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it's not a policy lynch dude
you've been making weird conspiratorial arguments about how katsuki is a lyncher when six other people have also determined you're scummy enough to vote
you've given one scumread and it was like 2/3 omgus
your only defense is "but i picked town this time so i wouldn't have to do this"
do you not understand how the prospect of you doing this as town is kinda frustrating and i'd at least like you to still play to your wincon if you are (the black key can potentially be will'd)

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Why should we exclusively discuss what order we think people picked? Isn't that a bit too WIFOM'y, making "exclusively" extremely dangerous?

Because I was being sarcastic.

Why do you think kuribo lied about scum as third choice?

Because I was being sarcastic.

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i think you need to refine your sense of sarcasm

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I'm fine w/ hebi getting green if it's her ability color. Fine with me as well.

VOTE: hebichan

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I doubt anyone "needs" any specific key; i'm not sure if we want to be all claiming what color keys give us power. it might be useful but it might be something we don't want to claim for some reason

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oh third parties might need them lol

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nk15 i know you're participating now but you've managed to say an *aggressive* amount of nothing in your iso. you've fos'd me for what now amounts to you not understanding sarcasm when I'm pretty sure every other player in the game can agree that it makes sense that that sentence was sarcastic; you've fos'd plum for something that you now understand isn't a real reason to fos her.

The only other posts you've made have been empty questions, or empty setup speculation, or pointless pontificating on pine.

Care to give any actual reads based on actual, tangible reasons, and not based on trying to search for scumslips where none probably exist?

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Alright.

Curious about others' opinions on nk now.

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man i guess this is what i should have expected but i was actually gonna call nk15 probtown for his last post lol

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i feel like scum

probably

at least tries to bs at least one single read at this point. Doesn't feel like he has much investment in how other people are reading him in the way scum would. Not a strong read ofc but

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So I looked at the rules a moment and did some math.


Are you sure we want to go full blood this game kat?

also yeah about this.
It's interesting. I'm sure we aren't gonna be like, punished by the game for lynching as often as we can... but at the same time the one-kill-per-12-units thing is certainly there at least partially to prevent us from killing so many people that the endgame becomes weird/impossible to bring enough people in.

Also it's a no-flip game... in which it's implied that there will be more than six people to choose from for an event... that happens relatively late...

all of this leading to a pretty good chance that some kind of resurrection mechanics exist.

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also the lynch flavor being "banished"

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NK is a scummy mess with little information or content to offer, part of the bottom quartile along with TemporalLich and Skygazer. Trying to sort those three by likelihood of being scum right now seems low-utility. But to put it bluntly, we should avoid taking any of them into the Well of Fears.

Why not toss Maria in that list?

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everything i see keeps making me think maria+sky are scum~~~~

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i'm also still pretty unconvinced on TL-scum.

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Eh. I believe MariaR picked town first/is town

why

and I believe her when she says that her reasonings for playing differently are due to the game itself.

why

The thing about maria is this:

NK is a scummy mess with little information or content to offer, part of the bottom quartile along with TemporalLich and Skygazer. Trying to sort those three by likelihood of being scum right now seems low-utility. But to put it bluntly, we should avoid taking any of them into the Well of Fears.

Why not toss Maria in that list?

Maria just barely scrapes above the bottom quartile but literally only because she said "GE is Town but don't ask why just yet", which isn't ~content or anything but may (~~~~) be a meaningful contribution down the line (honestly statistically it says a lot more about Gamma's likelihood of being Town than Maria's but still not nothing about Maria's).

is backwards, IMO. The "GE is town but don't ask why" thing fits to a T how I think Maria's scumgame works; it's the kind of peppering in things that are "loudly" townish that she iirc does as scum. I can't think of examples but. I do agree w/ plum that it says more about Gamma being likely town than it does overall about Maria but I think it's actually a point in favor of her being scum.

Her boredom/catchup-post style in the first couple days fits how she played as scum in mlp. 451 is *absolutely* a line I can see her saying as scum.

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Merci, Madame!

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i for one still think greyice was faking his post restriction

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i'm happy to go in idc i like games

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i think that's what sky is saying

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just saying the ideal thunderdome is one player from each category

why are you so goddamn confident of this

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VOTE: implosion
surprised there haven't been any selfvotes tbh
who doesn't like games

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well yeah people with keys don't enjoy playing games because keys and games actually satisfy some of the same base psychological needs

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April 17, 431 BCE.

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though 51/52 is setup spec and you can't tell me it isn't.

it isn't.

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still think nk and tl are both town over here what up

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i think it could very easily just be tl explaining his reasons poorly

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i wouldn't say i'm *that* strong on TL town, but i do feel it.

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why is the sun blue.

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because i've said *multiple times* that 51 was sarcasm and i'm annoyed i need to say it a third

52 is *kinda* setup spec

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yes i've said that like forty seven times for the love of fuck

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I guess I see the point that TL hasn't taken risky stances much but I think that's not surprising from town in this game. It took me a while to form like any material opinions in this game. I like 150, particularly calling one of Pine's posts a possible townslip; not a likely scum->scum interaction, and not something that i think scum points out if they see town do it (even if the townslip itself is bunk). 235 isn't a bad post either imo. 281 feels like a genuine thought that scum wouldn't think as much about, and I don't really buy that he's scum avoiding giving reads since he has now given a full reads list, justified them, and given decent answers to questions about why he has those reads. I think the way he's been scumreading katsuki is reasonable, and that katsuki is a really easy person to scumread in general if you aren't familiar with him.

Again, it's not a strong read. There are things that give me pause. 281 could potentially be scum who are more aware of the fact that scum only need one key to win because they're thinking about their own win condition, and his tone feels kinda bad in a lot of places. It's not a read I'm wed to.

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the risky stances thing might have been someone else actually, idr, shrug.

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You know, I was going to do a point by point on why this is bad, but that's not the point at all. My thoughts here is that this post is backfill reasoning. It's what you would get if you started with the premise "TL feels town" and then went through his ISO to justify that premise. I'm going to point out a few logical flaws here.

I mean... this isn't wrong? It *is* me back-justifying a gut townread on the slot. And I wasn't really trying to hide that?

Like I said, it's not a strong read. It's not one I'm going to actively proselytize for, but his play doesn't strike me as particularly scummy and i think there are reasons to townread him that do have some material weight.

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on the one hand i also kind of feel like maria has phoned it in
on the other hand i feel like i'm just waiting to see what this game is.
-shrug-

I don't think kuribo is scummy. I think the frustration at how maria's been playing is relatable. Like I think I mentioned earlier Maria's activity pattern early had been reminding me of mlp, and v/la or not that hasn't really changed.

As for reasons to townread hebichan: the way she acted around the first key coming around was townish, how she claimed to need the green key but didn't selfvote; I don't think she would pick scum; the tempo of her posting has been pretty good in general/she seems invested in a townish way. There's some other stuff but shrug.

Other people I'm tempted to townread are NK15, Alisae, kuribo, plum, greyice and katsuki (and TL as I've mentioned), though I have reservations about all of those except NK15. This is literally everyone alive except maria/sky so obviously some of them are wrong (if I had to throw out the reads I feel best about as town it'd be, eh, hebi NK kuribo and then maybe ali and plum? though that could change in 5 minutes) I guess my reads haven't really changed in like a week since nothing has happened zzzzz

You know, I was going to do a point by point on why this is bad, but that's not the point at all. My thoughts here is that this post is backfill reasoning. It's what you would get if you started with the premise "TL feels town" and then went through his ISO to justify that premise. I'm going to point out a few logical flaws here.

I mean... this isn't wrong? It *is* me back-justifying a gut townread on the slot. And I wasn't really trying to hide that?

Like I said, it's not a strong read. It's not one I'm going to actively proselytize for, but his play doesn't strike me as particularly scummy and i think there are reasons to townread him that do have some material weight.

I'd prefer you to take a closer look and give a more nuanced answer. While it may or may not affect my read on TL, depending on the content, saying "it's my gut, and I don't really care if you wagon a town read for one of our five lynches" does effect my read on you. Which is a thread I'll probably follow up on when we're getting closer to having another lynch and this isn't all just circle jerking.

My answer doesn't lack nuance.
It just isn't the answer you seem to want to hear.
If there's a banish wagon on him then I'll look at him more closely but even then I don't think he's likely to ever wind up in an attempted coalition... so I don't see why you want me to put so much effort into sorting him in particular. Kinda feels like you're trying to shade me for the sake of shading me?

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prooooobably a real townslip, i think.

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Merci, Madame!

I'm fine with banishing TL from the event.

(also i can't tell if that key is orange or yellow?)

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ok well here's my plan
2 of {Me, Implo, GreyICE} agree to vote safety while the other votes for the key.
I think thats how we play this out because if TL votes safety, whoever votes key gets the key and banishes TL
and if TL votes key, we just give the key to whoever voted key and we banish TL

I believe this is the only strategy where 3 players in this game can force the 4th to get banished.

Of course, if we want to do that, the theoretical risks are (1) if TL goes safety we have to trust whoever takes the key to banish him, and (2) if TL goes for the key we have to trust the other two to settle it against him, and if one of them is scum/thirdparty and defects, then we might have both people claiming against each other. But that's kind of an acceptable price to pay for a public counterclaim.

I'm also fine with being the one to take the key if we do that plan. If people prefer Alisae I'm fine with that, I'd err against GI but if there's a consensus there then also shrug.

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and since I don't think implo needs the yellow key,

Why do you think this, again?

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on what grounds, your honor

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sustained

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I'd appreciate if TL can also say how he's going to vote. Forgot we have so little time.

I just realized the other theoretical risk which is if the person we think will go for the key actually goes for safety all four of us could be banished, but of course that probably would benefit some third party with a weird win condition more than scum.

Given that (1) GI can confirm his ability and (2) i'm sure there are other ways to swap keys around if he doesn't/if he turns out to be scum who knows the yellow key is real/a third party who needs it for something, i'm in principal fine with him taking it conditional on him immediately swapping it to a townread that isn't solely decided by him (i'd be fine w/ plum if not me). There's some paranoia that he's a third party with some weird win condition like "you must hold at least x keys at various points" or something like that. But the ability to swap the yellow key for a different key is something I can believe would be put on a town role.

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I would appreciate if GI can get online before the deadline to confirm if he is going to go for the key, though; worst-case scenario is we accidentally fail to coordinate and all get banished.

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If GI doesn't show up until deadline then I'll go for the key to guarantee we don't all get banished. I should be online around deadline.

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sounds good.

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didn't realize there were so many shenanigans afoot

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i'm just gonna go ahead and submit that i'm going for the key

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i in fact did not safety

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Merci, Madame!

NK, if you think kuribo recruited people into/is tied to other people that are also third party, and GreyICE hasn't claimed third party... why would we even believe kuribo about the people he's tied to?

Would like TL to claim.

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o yeah i forgot to mention i'm pretty sure i had a dream last night where tl died and his death caused a town win because all scum were dead and i was really confused bc (1) that makes no sense (2) not the town win condition and (3) that really doesn't make any sense

that said dreams don't lie so i guess tl has to be scum

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I'm probably going to be banishing you.

Anything else you wanna claim before that?

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As in, target a player, learn if they have a key?

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You wanna uh, use that key cop before you maybe get banished, then???

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honestly this is making me EVER so slightly tempted to banish alisae

i was kind of under the impression scum knew which key was correct? though it's possible they don't, or that they were given that ability as a fakeclaim.

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i think i'm still gonna banish TL though just to get the consensus scumread that's taking up a lot of discourse out of the way so we can hunker down and focus esp since i don't really think alisae is scum, though e could be

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I'd love to but idk.

why not

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I'd love to but idk.

why not

I'm not holding a key.

Can't you just use it on some key color you aren't holding, announce that result, and then we all get to know it? This is a good thing assuming scum already know what the real key color is. Do you have to be holding the key to use it?

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skeptical but okay i mean i am still planning to banish him

i'd just like if his putative FREE INVESTIGATION RESULT can be like

used?

y'know?

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-shrug-

Vote to Banish: TemporalLich

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Not all win conditions are opposed to each other.

Reminder of this.

So kuribo's lying in some way, or there's guaranteedly also another third party.

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that literally isn't what i said kuribo

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it literally isn't implying you're lying either
it's saying, EITHER you're lying, or we are guaranteed to have another third party... since, y'know,

she said "not all win conditions are opposed"

and you said "my win condition is opposed to the other ones"

so

do the math?

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oh yeah forgot about sky

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i mean, it still means either you're lying, or sky is telling the truth, or there's another unclaimed (not counting katsuki's claims). Which is useful evidence in favor of skygazer telling the truth

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Btw guys I don’t think kuribo is town

if kuribo was town he would be nice to us

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I'm highly uninterested in banishing NK.

Maria's really the only one I have any active interest in banishing atm.

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I ignore third party claims when it comes to alignment.

how is one even supposed to parse this sentence I don't

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I'm also deeply curious how my play is "very much in my scumrange" and yours isn't very much in yours, unless you think people should be justified in scumreading you here?

bc it'd be a huge insult to your scum play to say that your play here isn't within your scum range :\

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If I think a 3p has been towny I'll call em town and leave them alive for now.

I just.
Did you read the town win condition??? Do you think sky might be town fake claiming third party???????
leaving alive for now, sure, but why are you refusing to acknowledge that sky is useless to the town by virtue of *DEFINITELY* not being town, and therefore useless to call town??

If I was scum people would be townreading me because scum is stupidly easy to play at the moment.

Yep, because 100% of the town townread you the entire game in mlp....... your scum game is so magically good that people automatically townread you, and your town game is in contrast so bad that half of this game is scumreading you.

It's really frustrating to hear you arguing this way. I want you to engage with the thread if you're town, Maria. We only have so many town-aligned players in this game, given that there are certainly multiple third parties and multiple groupscum, and we need to find six of them to win. And town reading sky gazer is useless, because we KNOW that she can't be part of that coalition. If you're town, are you going to be part of that coalition? Because you need to step up your game if you plan to be.

The "scum isn't fun right now" arguments are all well and good but literally everyone purporting to be town is going to be making some kind of argument like that and I honestly don't buy them from you above other people.

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Like I have no issue with leaving sky alive but I feel like you're just being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate, and you're refusing to make yourself sortable beyond "I wouldn't pick scum".

Please, work with me, or with other people if you don't want to work with me.

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Why are you trying to state exaggerations for no reason?

Because I'm frustrated with your play.

No one has stated reasoning why I’m scum.

I've given a couple of salient points, namely your activity pattern feeling identical to mlp (weak, yes, but there) and 521. To add to them: it feels like you've made zero effort to further the town win condition, which is to build a coalition. You say you've adopted this new style, but it doesn't seem like a style especially well suited to this game, and playing the game of "I know I'm not going to get a key but I can bring scum reads down with me" doesn't seem like a way town *ought* to approach this setup, given we need six of us. Banishing scum reads doesn't even necessarily help us at all if those players weren't going to get keys in the first place. Like,

What am I suppose to be engaging with exactly? No one has stated reasoning why I’m scum.

This is bunk. You can try to publicly sort people. You can make an effort to have dialogue with your town reads. You can say who you want your coalition to be, and argue for those other people being in it, particularly people that you're town reading that others are scum reading (like presumably sky gazer before she claimed 3p).

You do know I made this exact statement in how I hate scum 2 games ago correct?

Do you think I would pick scum for an easy win yet hate playing the game? Is that what you think I’d do? That’s a question by the way I’m really curious.

the bolded is not something I know and I'm not sure why you think I do? Was it a statement in mlp?

I don't think you would pick it for an easy win, I think you either went third party > scum > town because you wanted third party but didn't feel like playing town in the game, or you felt more like playing scum than town, etc. If you have talked publicly and recently about finding scum not fun then that'd be useful information. Or maybe you were given third party and got one that's motivated to claim town instead of outing itself as kuribo and sky have. Maybe you specifically wanted to be scum in this player list because you thought it would be a more interesting challenge. Maybe you have other reasons for picking scum that I don't have the requisite knowledge to figure out. Or maybe even everyone put town above scum and you drew the short straw! I don't know. But it does not suffice on its own as an argument for you being town, even if it is evidence.

I’ll let my actions speak for me

Great. I'll be waiting for more of them than just a kuribo vote.

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FYI for all I'm v/la this week (not actually limited access but on vacation and might have some days of being very lazy but will probably have normal activity the entire time) and then *actually* v/la come Friday for Bostonmeet.

I agree w/ greyice's malaise about kuribo I just haven't said it out loud because it's malaise

I have found his musings amusing but don't care about them at a gameplay level

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I don't want to join the nk wagon bc I've been pretty explicit about having no desire to banish him?

Like I don't think I've been unclear about that at any point.

I don't really have any motivation to use my vote tbh for the same reason hebichan said, banishment isn't clearly part of how we win.

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imo we should eschew normal scumhunting completely, and instead *exclusively* discuss what order we think people put things in and the implications thereof.

For instance, kuribo is probably lying about putting scum as his third choice, but is nonetheless town who ordered his picks as town > scum > third party.

Hey Implosion, what choices do you think different people put in?

Idk strongly. There isn't actually anyone in this player list that I know the preferences of well. There are some people that I decently think put town over scum but that's because I think that they're town and if someone put scum over town and was forced into town they'd probably have claimed it because of the implications.

Why?

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????

I've been trying to find the right coalition, that's why I'm trying to make Maria sortable, and why I've been open with my reads (though I guess I haven't given a full list in a week or w/e) but ????

The game's been fucking slow. Sue me for not being mega-ultra-hyper engaged. And I don't know why you're so excited to harp on me for going v/la... I'm still more active than half the player list. The people who need to townread me mostly already do (and i already have a key!) so I don't really care that much about actively making myself more sortable. If you wanna hold onto this germ of looking for reasons to scumread me then you do you.

"I get a bunch of setup spec and nothing i could use to actually sort the game" is fucking ridiculous. I've given setup spec here and there but i've been open about my reads. Half the time it's just boring to do anything and the thread is dominated by the likes of katsuki spouting random bullshit, kuribo doing nothing interesting, or discussion about which people we should send to a game we know nothing about.

Right now my strong town list is hebi, nk, plum. I want the four of us to get keys, with my next preferences probably being alisae and you (or gamma if he can be rezzed, of course). But scum get a banish after we do so most likely someone from that list will bite a bullet, and... idk dude, it's hard to predict what's going to happen this game with the obvious issue of "there's a fuckton of events that are going to fuck with shit in unpredictable ways".

I think I've been clear on why nk was town, and then nothing changed about those reasons and suddenly you're gung-ho about banishing him. He's been spouting random shit all game, it's just not scummy.

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actually could be down for that tbh

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VOTE: katsuki

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i expect you to dance. some sort of jig.

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His case for voting me

my case is you've been annoying me and alisae suggested it

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"does nothing to sort her"

yeah except that wallpost addressed to her that she hasn't responded to???

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guys, implosion isn't trying to sort maria!!!! he hasn't posted anything addressed to her in two days!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Plum, why did you quote post 1187? Do you agree with it? What more do you want me to do to sort maria, other than literally just voting for her (which I don't think is even meaningful)? And do you actually think katsuki is town beyond agreeing with townreads? Because it's not like kats has thrown out a bunch of reads that go against the grain, as far as i can tell.

Like I've said several times, I barely even feel motivated to vote anyone at all right now. Like I don't see why the town win condition even cares if the game goes to deadline (or, to time unit 36) without a hammer vote. I'm vaguely guessing the game was designed around it but that's all blank speculation, unless scum have the ability to like, steal the real key from someone at the last second... which i doubt.

NK is awkward because I actually don't agree with like a single thing he's said in the last ten pages but i'm still sure enough he's town. Hebi is still town, Plum is still town, alisae is still town, greyice is still probably town (or at least, enough people that i trust trust him). So in principal i'm fine banishing anyone that isn't one of those six. Sure, scum are going to banish one of them probably, but -shrug-. I'm fine banishing kuribo or sky if people want to get rid of the known not-towns. I'm fine banishing maria or katsuki. I just don't really care about banishment that much.

[implosion]

i mean, among people actually playing the game, there are like several townreads and several scumreads of me, so no, scumreading me isn't going against the grain?

you also LITERALLY ONLY CALLED ME SCUM IMMEDIATELY AFTER I VOTED YOU?

idk why to even try engaging with you :\

[implosion]

katsuki's third party claims were all sarcasm

[implosion]

Alisae do you have any material thoughts on the game right now or are you also part of the Chorus or Bored Voices

[implosion]

I don’t know plum

I don’t think she *did* pick scum

Why?

[implosion]

I did indeed claim that. I also sent my key cop shot while i was out in case i got speedwagoned and haven't gotten a result yet so i'd also strongly appreciate not being quicklynched before i can share it, at least to hebi/plum.

I also am pretty sure that I can use my key cop on any key (though I checked yellow) which is why I was weirded out by TL's claim and him (and GreyICE) saying he wouldn't be able to use it because he didn't have a key.

Sky's claim is really weird. And I don't know how she's expecting to clear me with a rolecop result, when what i claimed has been made public and it's not like it's a role scum couldn't have. Though this makes my earlier statement of "there must be an unclaimed third party that can theoretically joint-win with someone" valid again.

[implosion]

the GI shade hebi mentioned was partially me fuming but also i don't think he genuinely scumreads me this fervently as town here. I just think it's a bullshit read.

[implosion]

i'm just going to ignore GI posts for the rest of the game because if i don't i'm going to be too annoyed to play.

[implosion]

Alisae do you have any material thoughts on the game right now or are you also part of the Chorus or Bored Voices

I really don’t have anything unique to add to the thread and quite frankly, I am very lost when it comes to who is scum.
I have my own reads but I don’t trust them very much

cool cool.

[implosion]

Sky is kind of right that her play doesn't make a large amount of sense as scum given the scum wincon. Though it could make a lot of sense as some different antagonistic third party that's trying to gather info.

[implosion]

Literally driving back from beach.

Obviously guilty is fake. Doesn’t even mean katsuki is scum. Please hammer me if kuribo didn’t, I’m happy to be out of this fucking game.

Hebi/plum have my keycop result.

[implosion]

Merci Madame

The dead thread has, as gamma said, been really, really remarkably boring.

[implosion]

Merci, Madame!

apologies for improper formatting; copy-pasted from greyice

[implosion]

anyway i'm happy to play the game a bit again if people want me to but if there's gonna be sentiment like alisae's then i'll just fuck off, because frankly fuck that

[implosion]

but if you're trying to win w/ town then why the fuck wouldn't you pick gamma lmao

[implosion]

Merci, Madame!

i voted gamma a couple days ago ftr

[implosion]

oh my god it's not ambiguous she didn't actually revive you she literally quoted herself saying it was a joke

[implosion]

you don't need to lynch me... just not-revive me

[implosion]

me, greyice, and tl all claimed an ability that can investigate a key and determine if it's real or fake.

[implosion]

Guess whose key cop ability doesn't work like the others.

I have a key cop that works on a key I'm holding. TL has a key cop that works on a key he's holding. Implosion has a key cop that works on any key no matter who is holding it, and can steal a key.

How does yours work?

this isn't what i claimed!

[implosion]

never mind, plum said it

[implosion]

I believe mine works on any key but doesn't steal it. Looks like Implo is caught with his pants down.

to be clear: my key investigation doesn't specifically say anything about it having to be a key i had, and i never asked because the key i wanted to investigate was the one i had.

feel free to banish me, my being alive isn't going to help because so many people find me scummy

come up with a better reason than greyice lying about my claim though

[implosion]

honestly, it's kind of baffling to me that plum doesn't townread me given what's in the neighborhood and given that i'm still pretty confident she's town. I think my candidness and genuine frustration there really should be speaking for itself.

but that's a gripe for postgame because no flip games are indeed fucking stupid

[implosion]

i claimed my result privately to hebichan and plum before i was banished; they're welcome to share it here but i'm not going to

[implosion]

"town isn't winning this" is an observation

it's almost certainly a correct observation and i'm fairly confident there's nothing i can do about it.

:hitoshrug:

Implo - you tried to steal a Key from me by Neighborizing me????

Also you should not have been able to Neighborize me when you did. But you did Neighborize me. I don't know what could have broken my action-immunity. Maybe it was just a coincidence that you Neighborized me with a Key-stealing Neighborize when something else entirely had broken my action-immunity. But if so, it was an awfully convenient one.

If only one of those were true, maaaaybe I would be considering whether I should trust you.

Me trying to steal a key by neighborizing you should have nothing to do with your read on me given that i claimed it to you, unless you disbelieve that i could possibly have found you null or scummy at the time that I neighborized you or you think my role intrinsically can't be town. And I wasn't trying to steal a key, as I've said; I just wanted to use the neighborhood as a more direct way to sort someone, and you were someone that I had no strong read on and Hebichan agreed wasn't strongly sortable at that point.

Then you (at least, I believe) townslipped, and everything changed.

With regards to the action immunity thing, I have absolutely no idea what that has to do with my alignment. Do you think i, as scum somehow neighborized you in a way that pierced action immunity? Why would I do that exactly?? How would I have known you were action immune (I didn't until now)? Why the hell would a neighborize have a way to pierce action immunity? Do you think skygazer is just lying about me having truthfully claimed my role (I assume the answer to this one is yes, but still asking just because)?

[implosion]

i miss the part of the thread that was kuribo trolling because it pissed everyone off equally instead of just pissing me off

[implosion]

I mean, like GreyICE pointed out, you did push for me to be given a Key before you told me that the Neighborhood had a Key-stealing component. Doesn't exactly sit right with me.

Yes, because I didn't claim to you the moment that I started townreading you. In the event you got a key, I was intending to just will it back to you (or swap if there was any utility) after stealing it since I also had one already.

Idk, maybe scum have a factional ability that allows their actions to temporarily ignore things like the immunity I had and you used this other ability while you were at it. Maybe there's a strongman component to the ability. Yes, I agree it could have been coincidence. But it's not a good look.

I mean, fair enough. I just hope that you understand after the game is over if you are town and you see that I was town that it was *incredibly* frustrating when I claimed truthfully to you and you responded with "no, that's impossible, you must be scum." I guess that's more the setup's fault than yours, but.

Re Skygazer, yeah no I don't trust her. But all right. Call that "circumstantial" evidence in your favor. I'll consider the case for you being Town if you think it's profitable. If you're Town, convince me that you're safe to leave alive, sure, go ahead. I'm willing to be wrong. Who's scum though? If you're Town and you trust me, let's figure it out.

It's less about convincing you I'm town and more about me venting steam. I don't think it'd matter if I convinced you I'm town because the rest of the living have also decided I'm scum.

I still think GI is a good candidate for scum, pine is an okay shot for it but not sold, kats and/or alisae easily could be (at this point gun to my head i'd say alisae is more likely scum than kats bc kats's play this game is very much his MO and it's directly tempting to BoP alisae since e used to always read me correctly back in the day but hey who gives a shit), maria probably isn't given skygazer's bullshit, I really don't think any of the ghosts other than possibly Pine are scum.

I honestly think odds are quite solid that it's actually just too late to even turn this into a town win even if word of god confirmed like, me and two other random people as town. Hence me reiterating skygazer's refrain. I expressed similar sentiment in the dead thread.

The chorus of people shitting on anything i said in this game combined with thinking that like all of the scum are getting keys demotivated me quite a bit and frankly i was quite a bit more content with the utter lack of activity in the dead thread so if you'll be so kind as to send me back there and stop waxing back and forth it'd be lovely gamma thanks

[implosion]

Like... why wouldn't you keep NK15 alive here if you had a chance. Like why.

you do realize gamma is choosing someone to *kill*????

[implosion]

maybe i should have just not explained that and seen what happened but i like the little modicum of smugness i get to afford myself here

[implosion]

GI is a good candidate for scum

Why

town-him wouldn't have gone after me in the pattern that he did this game, initially tepid and half-committal and then increasingly aggressive as popular sentiment turned toward me being scum. Or at least I don't think he would have.

Maybe plum has secret mod info confirming all the people i'm scumreading as town but frankly i don't give a shit if that's the case because if it is, then idk, just fuck this game is stupid. And i mean, i already know for a fact if plum is town then plum has misinterpreted setup info... so yeah

[implosion]

another fwiw: i think it's really almost unreasonable to think that sky is anything but third party here. She might be lying about an inno on me and/or maria in theory but there is literally zero motivation for her to play the way she has if she is groupscum (and I doubt she has much reason to lie about the innoes either, which is basically the only reason I don't still think maria is scum). Ditto kuribo not being groupscum; remember the scum win condition involves getting keys. I think hebi and plum are still my strongest townreads and idk if anyone is disputing them, and I really just don't feel like any of the ghosts are especially scummy (again, *possibly* excepting pine). So by that poe I so if plum has magic info that makes greyice and katsuki and alisae all confirmed town then i can't really fault her for scumreading me but like jesus i will be really surprised if all three of those people are town given the trajectory of this game and the fact that it's no-flip.

[implosion]

i envy you skygazer

[implosion]

She is a ghost, right? She was banished immediately before the ghosts were brought back.

[implosion]

revelation of the goddamn millennium there!

[implosion]

in the event that i'm actually needed for something i'm going to be pretty v/la until Monday; tomorrow I fly back west, Saturday will be fairly busy and Sunday I'll be moving all day.

[implosion]

Skygazer has been banished on Time Code 34.

All BANISHED players may now post in the thread as if they were alive. Banished players are still no longer considered BANISHED and as such may no longer post in the BLACK HOLE. Banished players are coded with the label "GHOSTS" here on out.

[implosion]

Oooooooooohhh finally some good goddamn news

[implosion]

Yay, pine was town!

Yay, I'm also town!

Banish: TemporalLich