Mini Theme 2094 : Undertale Semi-Open: Game over!

[Oversoul]

How would claiming help the game at all?

[Oversoul]

HEAL: Something_Smart

[Oversoul]

Elements town, DrDoolittle scum

[Oversoul]

Chennisden scum. PR should not claim because then they get counterclaimed and we are back where we started.

[Oversoul]

We should start with Pacifist in mind and then if we feel scared we can do Neutral as safety net I think

[Oversoul]

IF THERE'S A COUNTERCLAIM WE LYNCH THE SCUM DUH

But we don’t know who is the scum duh. And we won’t because no flips duh

[Oversoul]

If Chennis forces the PR to claim I will advocate for Genocide route

[Oversoul]

How about this

Do we want to go for Spare with safety valve of Neutral, or we want to go for Genocide with safety valve of Neutral? Thinking about it, I think we should do the later.

[Oversoul]

UNVOTE:

[Oversoul]

I don’t think that’s true. Sparing is like doing the scums job for them. We are removing the townies player then they have a chance to remove the second towniest player. It accelerates the race to the bottom which is typically why most scum teams win.

[Oversoul]

I really, really don’t get EV.

Looking at the EV for 9-2 it is 35.2 town win. With a confirmed innocent (our PR) in this case, the EV increases to 35.7. Da fuq? A confirmed townie is only worth .5?? I don’t trust math.

[Oversoul]

How has the scum’s job changed in a spare game?

[Oversoul]

Spared players aren't removed from the game; in both pacifist and neutral they return to the game at the Core.

They are removed for the time being though, that’s my point. After the first two spares it is much easier for scum to get spared

[Oversoul]

HURT: pop

[Oversoul]

If scum get 2 spares, they win automatically

[Oversoul]

Fat chance

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Chennis

[Oversoul]

HURT: Chennis

[Oversoul]

I just realized how many lurkers/inscrutable players we have in this game. I will not be sparing anyone and do not think we should spare. We need alignments.

[Oversoul]

That’s fine. Town has a chance to win at that point in neutral.

[Oversoul]

If you kill people their alignments are flipped. I’m not even talking about Neutral.

[Oversoul]

How does sparing protect the PR?

[Oversoul]

WE SPARE THE PR

THE PR GETS NIGHTKILLED ONCE WE SPARE 4 PEOPLE

[Oversoul]

You said that once and I do not believe you especially when you mentioned Gamma Emerald as one of those players.

[Oversoul]

also as scum i don't push myself as the obvtown that should endgame this early and as town i do so uhh

Until the day you do

[Oversoul]

*checks watch*

[Oversoul]

Which is today

[Oversoul]

Actually no. The fifth player to be spared will also be confirmed town, so scum can already kill a conftown in pacifist.

How are they conftown?

[Oversoul]

Actually no. The fifth player to be spared will also be confirmed town, so scum can already kill a conftown in pacifist.

How are they conftown?

because sparing mafia as 5th player loses the game...?

No...?

[Oversoul]

I just realized how many lurkers/inscrutable players we have in this game. I will not be sparing anyone and do not think we should spare. We need alignments.

Excuse me I am extremely scrutable

I do appreciate that you acknowledged you were one of the people I was talking about.

[Oversoul]

How are they conftown?

Town only has to spare a fifth player if one of the first four was scum. So if a second scum were spared, they would kill for parity and win. The fact that that didn't happen conftowns the fifth player.

Ok that’s what I thought. I thought was saying something like the two spare before = autowin

[Oversoul]

This is my last statement - I think sparing the PR is bad because then they just die and never get to use their PR to affect the game. I also think the fifth player spared, even though conftown isn’t necessarily going to be a boon for town due to previously stated race to the bottom mechanics

[Oversoul]

By the way, what’s Undertale?

Same tho

[Oversoul]

Love the avatar

[Oversoul]

DEB you should Heal Chennis.

[Oversoul]

Where’s Deb when you need him

[Oversoul]

Gamma do you town read me

[Oversoul]

Then Heal Chennis

I think town list is Volxen, Chennis at the top followed by DDL and Ele

[Oversoul]

Deb free me from this reality

[Oversoul]

I’ll answer that question. For a price

[Oversoul]

Hurt Chennis

[Oversoul]

I meant to say heal

[Oversoul]

HEAL: Chennis

[Oversoul]

Now that I’ve locked Chennis in the shadow realm I think he is scum and strongly advocate that we reach the core at neutral stage

[Oversoul]

Deb would have done that for me, that’s why I was asking for him

[Oversoul]

Now that I’ve locked Chennis in the shadow realm I think he is scum and strongly advocate that we reach the core at neutral stage

Sure, but we're lynching you for that move

Uhhh sure you are

[Oversoul]

Now that I’ve locked Chennis in the shadow realm I think he is scum and strongly advocate that we reach the core at neutral stage

Are you advocating for the neutral route purely on the bases of Chennis being scum, or do you have other reasons for wanting it?

The reason I want Neutral is because I am Asgore and if I am correct we can win by PoE in the spare pool.

I would like to be spared now. I would also like that we Kill 2 players to finish out the game Core mechanic, that way we can confirm Chennis as scum come Neutral phase.

HEAL: Oversoul

[Oversoul]

Sparing Oversoul, while undoubtedly suboptimal, would be really funny.

I will say nothing to Chennis while I am in the shadow realm. But I am happy I trapped His

Holiness

Yappiness in the shadow realm. I am sad that Gamma died though. I would have liked to spare him down the road.

[Oversoul]

Mm. Why doesnt town SS say I want not go to spared to sort everyone else, and be sent to spared at day 4 (if applicable)?

This is the same reason why Chennis was not town, why did you spare him? Why do you scumread SS for it?

[Oversoul]

Hard claim never rescinding

[Oversoul]

Do you have any crumbs to back that up Chemist?

[Oversoul]

What does the video have to do with anything

[Oversoul]

SS you’re never getting spared, sorry bud.

[Oversoul]

Is Toriel that cow nun thing?

[Oversoul]

SS you’re never getting spared, sorry bud.

Also, conftown or not, you don't get to say stuff like this without reasoning.

I think you’ve been scummy with all your self heal and Chennis interactions. I didn’t trust Chennis and don’t trust you by proxy.

[Oversoul]

I would believe you decided to do that which makes it even more suspect.

And both.

[Oversoul]

Driving I’ll have more to say once I get home. Want to wait for everyone to check in

[Oversoul]

Stop. I am not ccing. Chemist is real or. HEAL: Chemist

[Oversoul]

Heal Chemist if you’re going to rush this. I wanted everyone to wait until all players here to see if they tried to cc. But this was gambit

[Oversoul]

Hmm juicy data

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul, Do you have any previous completed games with Chennisden (particularly games where Chennisden was town), or is this game your first time playing with him?

First time playing with him. Why does this matter?

[Oversoul]

Chemist do you think we should go spare route or do you think we should go Neutral?

[Oversoul]

HEAL: Something_Smart

I believe I can sort chennis in the spared PT if it comes to that.

This is a moot point now since Chemist has been forced to out himself as the PR and we are sparing him today, but I wouldn't have been comfortable with sparing you today given how eager you have been to get yourself spared since the beginning of day one. I realize that Chennisden was even more eager than you to get himself spared on day one, but the difference is that I have multiple completed games with Chennisden where he was town and I am confident that he is town in this game based on his day one play and the fact that he was transparently towny in a lot of his posts. You and I do have one completed game together, which was Mini Normal 2067: Musicals. That was the game where you and I were both town, I was mislynched on day one, you were the vigilante, I told you to vigkill Slaxx (who also turned out to be town) on night one and you did so, and you were nightkilled on night one. I was mostly null on your slot in that game -- I actually thought you might have been scum in that game given how you somewhat lightly defended me when almost everyone else wanted me lynched (i.e., I thought you might have been scum staying off of my wagon to look good because you lightly defended me but didn't really try to dismantle my wagon). I'm completely null on your slot in this game currently. Maybe you are easy to read for people that are very familiar with you, but I find you hard to read, especially since a lot of your content is related to mechanics/setup (though I tend to talk a lot about mechanics/setup myself as well).

What was the point of this post?

[Oversoul]

Chemist do you think we should go spare route or do you think we should go Neutral?

I am pretty sure I have a third but not sure I’ll have a fourth to spare

[Oversoul]

My opinion depends on if we were right about Chennis or not. Still not sure about that but I’ll post more thoughts on that matter in a bit

HURT: Pop

[Oversoul]

Who are people scum reading

[Oversoul]

Ok, then who are your town reads?

[Oversoul]

Do you think we should go spare route or Neutral route?

[Oversoul]

I wonder what Chennis is doing in the void. I hope it is like one of those completely silent rooms. I think that’s a fitting punishment.

Well first and foremost we knew definitively that Chemist is town. I didn’t want to risk the PR getting killed with a counterclaim so I did it to confirm that he is town.

I also did it because if we go the neutral route (which I think we should at this juncture) at worst we will lose outright because Chennis is scum which we probably lose to in Pacifist anyway or we confirm Chennis and Chemist as scum and go into a 3 town, 2 mafia end game with 2 of the town conftown.

That said the spare route is mighty appealing because I think I found one more very likely town. I am pissed that Gamma died because he was gonna pretty town yesterday when I fooled his ass

[Oversoul]

Confirm Chennis and Chemist as town*

[Oversoul]

We know that Chemist is definitely town*

Phone posting sux

[Oversoul]

I’m going back and forth on that. I think if he is town he played yesterday entirely wrong. It doesn’t quite make sense to me that someone who thinks they are so town and can win the game would advocate leaving on Day 1 where they will have little impact on the rest of the game. I hammered him because I think less info is oddly actually better for the town in this setup.

[Oversoul]

Not entirely wrong. I shouldn’t be so absolutist. But definitely not as how I would if I was really as self proclaimed town as he was, especially given that he wasn’t the PR and could draw the NK away from the PR or even possibly get two conftown

[Oversoul]

My only hiccup with Neutral is that I’m not sure I found his partner yet which is the only way we don’t lose Neutral with my ideal 2 people in Pacifist route

[Oversoul]

It is very surprising to me that only DDL brought up anything remotely to what I was thinking was macro problematic with Chennis’s play. But he only brought it up today so too little to late :/

[Oversoul]

I am interested to play this setup again at any rate because really there are so many possibilities it’s cool

[Oversoul]

I do find DDL town reading me to suspect... normally only scum correctly read me as town that early

[Oversoul]

Chennisden has been focusing on wanting to spare players who are being town read and he even admitted he is okay sparing Elements instead of himself and that post of his looked towny. Chennisden has been active and if he was scum, I would think his scum buddy would also spare him right away and I haven't seen anyone doing that.

HEAL: chennisden

Can you walk me through this Adorable? Chennis was self sparing the entire day so I don’t get why you so easily spared him for the Elements comment?

[Oversoul]

Oversoul if you hated and scumread chennis so much why did you literally force through his plan of having the PR claim and get spared?

Also I don’t hate Chennis. I just scumread him. Hate is a strong word

[Oversoul]

Yeah I dont think SS is town here

Whatever happened to this?

[Oversoul]

The only way I think Chennis is scum is if SS is their partner.

That's a bit of a weird logic leap, considering I didn't push to spare him so quickly and he didn't suggest to spare me either.

Would cross sparing be the only way that scum could this game? I’ll answer that. No.
Then what’s your point about this being a leap of logic?

[Oversoul]

Why Volxen, Adorable? Why not me or Something_Smart?

[Oversoul]

SS earlier you said that you make your alignment known easily and that’s why you should be spared. Can you walk me through that? I’m not sure I follow.

Additionally, you said you’d be able to read Chennis easily, why did you focus on that being a reason to spare you?

[Oversoul]

Town hunting generally requires a lot less effort or content to do than scumhunting. As evidenced by your super strong read on Chennis very early yesterday

[Oversoul]

Volxen what do you think we should do? Shoot for Pacifist or shoot for Neutral?

[Oversoul]

Who are you town reading Deb?

[Oversoul]

Hmmm

[Oversoul]

I have a pretty big revelation once Chemist posts his legacy reads

[Oversoul]

Might not be that big to others but to me it’s big

[Oversoul]

Town hunting generally requires a lot less effort or content to do than scumhunting. As evidenced by your super strong read on Chennis very early yesterday

[Oversoul]

I decline to answer.

[Oversoul]

My revelation is that Chemist is able to use his PR from the spare room. Unfortunately, my master plan of trapping scum Chennis means if he is the last scum, he can still kill from the spare room

[Oversoul]

Ask the mod, babes

[Oversoul]

I clarified with her before making any revelation posts by the way

[Oversoul]

I think she got trapped because if mafia couldn’t act in the spare room, it could be game over by Day 2. So if mafia can act in the spare room it’s only fair for a pr to act in the spare room. This is all my conjecture though. We can ask her at the end of the game thoigh

[Oversoul]

Fair but some of those are intended some are not

[Oversoul]

I don’t know why everyone is falling my revelation into doubt when you literally can ask the mod yourself... but since y’all too lazy

mod can a spared PR still use their power from the spared room to affect non-spared players?

[Oversoul]

It could potentially conftown an additional player if we go the Neutral route.

[Oversoul]

Toriel would know that because she lies her power after it is successfully used

[Oversoul]

I think I don’t want Elements or DDL to be spared

[Oversoul]

You people are clearly not reading the game if you think I’m scum.

[Oversoul]

For the record, I don’t think Chemist should tell his targets until after the night.

[Oversoul]

To confirm that the PR does not get counter claimed by scum and we put him in the Spare room correctlg

[Oversoul]

I think I have my town and scums so I am ready for the game to go to night.

[Oversoul]

I think I have my town and scums so I am ready for the game to go to night.

Care to divulge us?

Not at this time.

Why is only one of SS and myself scum?

[Oversoul]

I mean I think my play makes no sense as scum, but people are afraid of what they don’t know/don’t understand

[Oversoul]

I think it makes perfect sense as town now that we a) have a confirmed town PR, b) he can still influence the game


There was literally no downside to putting him

[Oversoul]

you say you were preventing a scum CC right. If there was a scum CC that would be a 1 for 1 trade which I'm pretty sure is always in towns interest.

The thing is a scum CC loses the PR for us, so it’s really 2 for 1 and we would have had to go to Neutral instantly

[Oversoul]

My way has no draw backs, letting scum CC has major drawbacks but also higher rewards

[Oversoul]

I want the Neutral route under very specific circumstances. Yes, PR gets killed N4 as opposed to getting killed Day 2 without being able to influence anything. Is this you saying that you think chennis is scum?

[Oversoul]

Where are all of these Adorable town reads coming from?

[Oversoul]

Ok. I am ready for day to end, I think I have all the info I need.

Make sure you get your reads in Chemist

[Oversoul]

Correct

[Oversoul]

Correct

and you wonder why people don't town read you

[Oversoul]

Hard claim never rescinding

I still want Oversoul to explain why they said this

Otherwise I kinda wanna townlean them for going out of their way to draw attention to themselves, with the PR fakeclaim and somewhat intentionally antagonizing people with the refusal to actually give their reads

It was part of my PR fakeclaim. I didn’t know if you were going to claim or just setting the stage.

[Oversoul]

I don’t know why you’re getting hung up on the never rescinding. I needed to sell it so I could get a genuine reaction from the PR

[Oversoul]

I feel like scumteam is definitely SS and someone else. The way he opened today seemed to heavily imply Chennis

[Oversoul]

I feel like I am definitely going to Kill SS tomorrow unless I can be talked down from that ledge.

[Oversoul]

I think that Chennis was playing to his scum play by pushing so hard for an agenda. I hope you have fun in the Spare room with him.

[Oversoul]

Yeah Adorable is saying the right things but I don’t like how she says them...

[Oversoul]

I actually think Flips is pretty townie personally

[Oversoul]

Cool

HEAL: Chemist

[Oversoul]

High five Deb

[Oversoul]

There’s a method to my madness, it’s ok

[Oversoul]

HURT: Something Smart

[Oversoul]

Most likely

[Oversoul]

What is the tin foil theory

[Oversoul]

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking

[Oversoul]

what is that heal?

[Oversoul]

Why?

I explained yesterday

[Oversoul]

Honestly that heal is why you’re scum

[Oversoul]

No, your self heal was scummy and then when you tried to put yourself into spare with Chennis under really bad reasons was scummy. So I voted you. And the. Healed Deb??????????????? And Co firmed my vote was in a good place.


Like I don’t even think Aden heals Deb at this point I. The game.

[Oversoul]

Auto correct zzz

[Oversoul]

It doesn’t matter if it was alignment independent. The way you were going about trying to get others to heal you was scummy.

[Oversoul]

I will answer tonight.

[Oversoul]

Do we need to kill someone today?

Not certain.

I could be persuaded to Spare put but I’m pretty certain SS isscum.

[Oversoul]

This is interesting. All very interesting.

[Oversoul]

Another hammer has presented itself and I am so very,

very

tempted

[Oversoul]

I apologize for my delays, I have been incredibly busy the last two days. I have started a new job and it looks like it is going to be one of those 60 hour work week type jobs. Pray for me.

[Oversoul]

Intent to hammer Elements

I think that sparing Elements is the right move for today. Elements, do you have anything else that you want to say?

I am curious why you are so willing to send Elements, despite wanting my answer and not getting it? You, along with everyone else, but especially you, seemed to be angry with how fast I had been moving the game, but now you are ok with moving the game fast and barely having any discussion?

[Oversoul]

Deb scum claim

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul... you still haven't answered my question:

Then Heal Chennis

I think town list is Volxen, Chennis at the top followed by DDL and Ele

Why did you call me town this early on on day one? At the time I had really only made one post with serious content (175). Chennisden townread me (179 over that one post, but he has history with me whereas you do not. Usually people unfamiliar with me have a hard time reading me, especially during the early stages of the game, as I am rarely “obvious town” on day one. And I had also just put your “secret” scumread (Chennisden) up to L-2 as well (176) – so what was it in particular that made you think that I am town at that stage of the game?

I decline to answer.

I asked you a legitimate question that would help me (and probably others) to sort your alignment and you refuse to answer. Why? You’ve suggested that you are going to be coming out at the beginning of day three with confident reads (i.e., 431). If you are town then the only reason I can think of with respect to why you wouldn't want to reveal/explain your reads (particularly your townreads) right now is that doing so might help scum to make a more informed decision regarding who they nightkill. But if that is your stance, then why have you been questioning other people on their townreads while being mostly aloof on your own townreads (except for calling Nips townie in 488)? If the concern is that revealing your townreads will give scum more insight into who is "obvious town" and that said information might impact the nightkill decision, then if anything it would make more sense for you to encourage everyone to wait until day three before divulging their townreads, no? Except that isn't what you have been doing. You want everyone else to talk about their townreads, while simultaneously acting as though you can't afford to do so yourself because scum is going to use your readslist to help them decide who to nightkill. And on top of that from the discussions that have already taken place today I think that it's fairly clear who is being widely townread and who isn't, so this whole stance of "you guys talk about your townreads and I will reveal mine on day three" that you are taking doesn't really make any sense at all.

You gave me a very questionable townread at the beginning of day one and I called you out on it. Especially considering that you called out DDL over doing the same thing towards your own slot (341), I expected you to give me a proper response, not dodge the issue.

I called you town hoping that you would be killed because I had a feeling that you would be hard to read. I still think you are hard to read. I wish you would delve as deep into other players as you are into me. I did that with all of those reads in that quoted post. The speed with which Elements got spared makes me question the legitimacy of his wagon. But we will see! I would very much like to be wrong.

[Oversoul]

This is why I play so close to the best. But anyway

HEAL: Oversoul

[Oversoul]

I think I am only going to heal myself or hurt SS.

[Oversoul]

Volxen, opinion on SS?

[Oversoul]

Deb why did you hammer?

[Oversoul]

Ugh flippy why did you have to leave us

[Oversoul]

cool HURT: Deb

[Oversoul]

His play has been alignment indicative

[Oversoul]

I think answer was also alignment indicative

[Oversoul]

SS if you drew Deb as your partner rip you, for real

[Oversoul]

The answer itself might be, i do believe you like hammering regardless f alignment. I’m the same way. but given what I know about your town self I feel like town you wouldn’t have posted that response

[Oversoul]

Who did they think was going to get killed?

Oversoul.

I could only be so lucky

[Oversoul]

Me healing DEB when we're partners would be a ballsy move that neither of us have the skill to make work.

Especially since I explicitly didn't even want him healed and was doing it to see how people would react to it.

So you think Deb is town?

[Oversoul]

If you’re thinking who I’m thinking then you might be town after all

[Oversoul]

Are you Empking, SS?

[Oversoul]

Does Volxen always lurk?

[Oversoul]

If Volxen replaces out, will you still tell us what you’re holding u til after he gets here to answer my question?

[Oversoul]

sounds like a plan mah man

HEAL: Adorable

[Oversoul]

I am pretty obviously not scum, so I should be the 5th player spared if it comes to that

[Oversoul]

This happened fast during my absence and when I come back I see myself getting spared. I've already explained why I have been suspicious of SS and DEB and I have been town reading the players who spared chennis.

HEAL: Adorable

Did we lose!? please tell me we lost so I can be rid of these ppl

[Oversoul]

pop you silly you don't need to unlock the thread to post in it as mod but ninja'd

[Oversoul]

wait what. wtf is happening

[Oversoul]

HEAL: Oversoul

[Oversoul]

Probably adorable. She’s been my pocket scum read since I asked why everyone was townreading her.

[Oversoul]

Actually

HEAL: Something Smart

I don’t want this loss on my hands so I’m sending you to the Shadow realm. I will watch from the dead thread

[Oversoul]

Well they were gonna lose if they didn’t make that move so

[Oversoul]

Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth SS let Deb hammer you for conftown goodness after being scumread all game

[Oversoul]

Debbie Doggie Doo, where are you?
We got some work to do now
Debbie Doggie Doo, where are you?
We need some help from you now

Come on Debbie Doo, I see you
Pretending you got a sliver
You're not fooling me, cuz I can see
The way you shake and shiver

You know we got a mystery to solve so Debbie Doo be ready for your act
Don't hold back
And Debbie Doo if you come through you're gonna yourself have a Debbie snack

Debbie Doggie Doo, here are you
You're ready and you're willin'
We can count on you, Debbie Doo
I know we'll catch that villain

[Oversoul]

God speed, friend. I think Adorable into Chennis does it

[Oversoul]

LOL.

[Oversoul]

Pops you dang troll

[Oversoul]

The spare was as funny as I thought it was gonna be with Chennis screaming about me being scum. That was a fun read.

Also, I am glad to say I never voted against my wincon!

[Oversoul]

Told Volxen to stop trolling me in the dead thread and then you go and troll me in the dead thread

I see u

[Oversoul]

The first two pages of the spare thread is gold

[Oversoul]

When DDL was killed over Elements that made me question elements but I didn’t have any time to react to that

[Oversoul]

This was fun. Would definitely banish Chennis 10/10 times

[Oversoul]

GG scums

[Oversoul]

If we had done the Neutral objective at 2 Spares we might have had a chance

[Oversoul]

But idk, Chennis would have come at me like a wrecking ball

[Oversoul]

Sorry for tricking you by the way Gamma

[Oversoul]

It’s ok Chennis. Elements played us all