Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Iconeum

Hai

[Ankamius]

I wonder where I got picked in the draft.

[Ankamius]

But I have an alignment???

[Ankamius]

I feel like Pine would draft me eventually if I wasn't drafted by Jingle at all

[Ankamius]

I'd comment but Firebringer would get real tilted real quick

So I won't

[Ankamius]

You're obvtown already

[Ankamius]

Bad as in unskilled or bad as in scum

This distinction is important

[Ankamius]

There's a catch to it he's conveniently not telling us

I'd be surprised if there wasn't

[Ankamius]

I think I understand what the catch is... or at least one of them.

I'm onto your tricks Pine

[Ankamius]

whoooooooooooooooooa mastina is scumreading me

S P I C Y

[Ankamius]

hey alisae when should I start reading the thread in analysis mode

I assume when everyone has posted

[Ankamius]

You're obvtown already

nonononononononononono
Let me just shut this down Alyssa
Pine is more likely going to draft Firebringer then not.
Bee and I talked about this a lot during the last version of the game.
Fire strengths as town is [redacted]
Fire’s strengths as scum is that he does well with the playerlist and works with every scumteam that Pine drafts.

me obvtown reading firebringer very early on is more a meme than anything nowadays

[Ankamius]

Me too

I thought I'd get a PR for sure

[Ankamius]

Yay I'm popular

[Ankamius]

I'm too stoned to go through your wine right now Pine thanks for the offer tho

alyssa, make the thread spicy while I'm gone plz :3

I don't think I can do that without hyperposting soz

[Ankamius]

see you guys in a couple days

[Ankamius]

I'll probably have a reads list out today

No promises though

[Ankamius]

VOTE: the worst

[Ankamius]

Anyone who is townreading me gives me the willies

Nothing I've done so far is significantly AI

[Ankamius]

MariaR doesn't look town in a way that I can easily see from a posturing pov

[Ankamius]

Wow, I agree with Chick that all the wagons are bad yet I'm voting her because of that reason. That somewhat makes me change my opinion. If you really need facts on why the wagons are bad
A) Ari is bad because his iso is just filler and wagoning them will accomplish nothing
B) Unless you're LLD you have no reason to vote xof because it's a meta read. You should be waiting for them to post more
C) The worst is a bad wagon because of the simple fact the worst becomes glaringly obvious the more the game plays out.
Ank you of all people should know that talking about my slot at the moment would be pointless because I have day 1 lynch immunity basically with how people attempt to solve me. Check back on me in a day or 2 and see how you feel about me then.

I think you're reaching the wrong conclusions of what I'm trying to do atm

[Ankamius]

Legit I feel like Firebringer is just town???

[Ankamius]

^ not buying that

[Ankamius]

what reason does scumstina have to claim it

why would Jingle give this role to her

[Ankamius]

what reason does scumstina have to claim it

why would Jingle give this role to her

Krazy's anime upick

you're telling me that jingle would give a bulletproof vigilante role to somebody who isn't going to shoot?

[Ankamius]

ok I think it's close to time to fine tooth comb the thread

[Ankamius]

Alisae

do you have a rough read for how much presence the scumteam has had so far?

[Ankamius]

talk to me about jjh? he's my biggest question mark so far at about 6 pages in

I feel like his general track so far was confidently tunneled in a less overblown way than in vengeful spirits but at the same time, the content I'm seeing directly... isn't good

[Ankamius]

ftr I'm assuming that the scumteam will have read access to the neighborhood

so please don't neighborize me

[Ankamius]

VOTE: jjh927

I'm actually okay parking on this atm

still reading up

[Ankamius]

Like Gamma and pops a tiny tiny bit. I actually like Ank a tiny bit too. Got a small warm fuzzy from Fireb's opening posts. Leaving on a ferry now gl remember to lynch Ari d1

holy shit this looks HORRIBLE on a second read through

[Ankamius]

whoever is scumreading ank please stop

chenn I want you to unpack why you said this next time you're in the thread

[Ankamius]

considering you almost always scumread me for an eternity before switching your read, you'd need to justify it for me to not find it sketchy.

[Ankamius]

does anyone have enough familiarity with pops as town and pops as scum?

I'd like to talk about him specifically

[Ankamius]

explain for me please fire

[Ankamius]

is that the type of read you can be confident in this early in the game though

[Ankamius]

well I'm not convinced

so pops stays in my scumread list

[Ankamius]

I'm not paranoid of you being scum, pops

I think it's a lot more likely than you being town atm

[Ankamius]

anyways I'm going to leave the thread for a while again to avoid hyperposting unless I'm specifically needed for anything

I have a reads list but I'm avoiding posting it until I see something that I'm waiting for

and to have more reads since I don't have reads on half the playerilst atm

[Ankamius]

noted

but still, it's probably beneficial to avoid bloating the thread atm since a lot of the players I don't have reads on are those that have close to no posts atm

[Ankamius]

that might be the single most disgusting couple of posts I've seen in a while

[Ankamius]

that might be the single most disgusting couple of posts I've seen in a while

Are you referring to me?

idunno how obvious I need to make it to establish that voting xolelf is not cool

Do you actually think that xof is town or you’re just looking forward to playing with them?

yes.

[Ankamius]

I'd be shocked if the scumteam was mostly in the least active players

[Ankamius]

chenn ignoring me has been noted

[Ankamius]

whoever is scumreading ank please stop

chenn I want you to unpack why you said this next time you're in the thread

there r better things to push

that doesn't follow.

[Ankamius]

if you're town i expect you to understand this conversation is unproductive and won't actually help you read me/vice versa.

if you're scum i expect you to understand that trying to mental gymnast your way into a scumread of me won't work.

how exactly am I supposed to take you sidestepping my question then?

[Ankamius]

k

[Ankamius]

Wendys

[Ankamius]

You're SOL then

[Ankamius]

Wtf Pine?

[Ankamius]

The threat is a nice touch but I don't think I can back off from dismantling your entire team sorry

[Ankamius]

That's the most bizarre list of names to be townreading at this stage

[Ankamius]

Tbf I'm actually townreading chickadee too

But it's more the type of read that's "town now, revisit later" than anything

[Ankamius]

Cool beans

I'll probably be mostly refining reads for a while

[Ankamius]

I don't think my reads at this point is significantly >rand tbh

I have 6 scumreads which I don't think have more than two scum

My townreads (7) are more confident but not by a whole lot

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Menalque

[Ankamius]

I'm just as irked about you townreading me as I am Firebringer ftr duckling

[Ankamius]

Mine gave me the impression he was saying I'm irrelevant and going to die

[Ankamius]

let Alisae control the vig shot

If e needs opinions for it, e will ask

[Ankamius]

If we don't leash mastina, she will just never shoot

[Ankamius]

LLD can you go into the Firebringer wagon more for me please

I agree with you but I feel like it's for different reasons than you

[Ankamius]

Gesundheit gamma

[Ankamius]

I'd be shocked if the scumteam was mostly in the least active players

sometimes I can piece together how you draw game state reads but I'm drawing a blank here

What's signalling you this?

I'm getting the impression that Pine is playing in terms of a future day and I found enough people early on sketchy enough to find it hard to believe that they're almost all town

Something is fundamentally off with it and I haven't figured out what it is yet, but I suspect Pine already has an idea for who he's looking to endgame with and is setting them up for it.

[Ankamius]

Dgb what are your reads atm

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Menalque

Logically doesn't follow but logic is a bad way to get reads so I'll let it go

[Ankamius]

Duckling are you going the same strategy as you did in thread title sucks

[Ankamius]

Ping me when the gamestate is less stale plsty

[Ankamius]

I like this wagon

[Ankamius]

Because I really didn't like how you didn't like chickadee immediately asking for the fruit so you just..
did it yourself???

[Ankamius]

The difference is I think Chickadee is town and I don't think you are town

[Ankamius]

..............................................................

lynch this.

[Ankamius]

I feel like pops should know better than to scumread me for those reasons but I'm not 100% sure on that (?)

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Menalque

[Ankamius]

I've done more than you have PP

[Ankamius]

I should just sleep, I'm snippy tonight

[Ankamius]

VOTE: PenguinPower

there I'm doing something

good night

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: PenguinPower

good night.

[Ankamius]

it's rather impressive how few townreads I have 40 pages in

[Ankamius]

I'm also confused how people glossed over menalque basically throwing my scumread of him under the "she didn't see the town thought process and that makes her scum" when his 'town thought process' was basically "chickadee did the same thing I did except she's scum for it because pine gave her an easy bargain and she accepted it" and completely ignored that if you suddenly show up out of nowhere and do exactly what you just criticize someone else for, it looks sketchy and hypocritical

[Ankamius]

the reads list he posted around that time having a bunch of unexplained reads with only the two scumreads he'd already explained having and a random null read was a nice touch too

I don't get the impression those reads are real

[Ankamius]

I'm going to leave the thread for a while again

I'll probably go more into other reads when I come back and go analysis mode again now that >20 pages has popped up since the last time but no guarantees

sorry for quadra, my brain doesn't really work in a way that makes condensing all these posts into one very feasible all the time

[Ankamius]

Btw last note for now

This point on Menalque wouldn't be anywhere near as egregious if he had done other stuff beyond that

It's scummy because that's the majority of his content and it's a... very weak and flawed thought process, I don't see it as a genuine one

[Ankamius]

chennis my boy instead of shading me why don't you talk about it in a little more depth?

Isn't chennis one of the masons? This looks like a bad post if so. Also yeah I'm not pushing much because I'm behind, way to go after an easy target
VOTE: Iconeum

Where the hell did you get that from and why would you out it

[Ankamius]

I'm too tired for this bye

[Ankamius]

No, it’s distinctly different because one was unprompted while the second was a reactive process prompted by the first

Chickadee also threw it out there while barely caring what people thought about her, and the way she did it made her a huge easy target

You jumped on it and got really defensive when you got any backlash from it

And again, you're telling me that I should be townreading your process when you've not only did exactly what you were criticizing Chickadee for, but while having done nothing else in the meantime except give an empty reads list with no context to any of your reads except those directly involved in this

I don't buy it sorry

[Ankamius]

No, it's very different. You're the one ignoring context.

Chickadee went about it not caring at all about the consequences about how she comes off, even after she got backlash for it.

You, on the other hand, tried to pass off BS and when I discounted it, turned it into a scumread on me.

I've mentioned multiple times now that I'm scumreading your entire play this game and you're hardfocusing on this one point like it destroys my entire argument when I even said before that it's not scummy without the rest of your play without being present.

The way you're arguing this isn't helping.

[Ankamius]

I've mentioned multiple times now that I'm scumreading your entire play this game and you're hardfocusing on this one point like it destroys my entire argument when I even said before that it's not scummy without the rest of your play being present.

Deleted an erroneous word

[Ankamius]

I'll get back to Menalque later

Alisae where is the townread coming from?

[Ankamius]

Someone check me on the worst

I'm starting to townread him and I want to be sure I'm not being charmed like I usually am when he's scum

[Ankamius]

Yeah Menalque, you'd done nothing other than what I was pushing you for

That was kind of the point.

[Ankamius]

Actually, I'm just going to drop it and assume that you're struggling to see outside of your own perspective

I'm assuming that Alisae has a better idea of how you play than I do

[Ankamius]

Nice you found one of my town tells

[Ankamius]

Duckling, remember that I play very differently on Blake as either alignment. Referencing meta from my Blake games are going to be minimally useful to you on games I'm playing on this account.

[Ankamius]

Idk ari, I'm in a midzone myself

Duckling is there anything you feel you need more thought put into? I brink I want to jam later on while the day is still not in danger of being rushed

[Ankamius]

Idk ari, I'm in a midzone myself

Duckling is there anything you feel you need more thought put into? I brink I want to jam later on while the day is still not in danger of being rushed

yeah thoughts on Skyg so far?

Seems like standard Skygazer town stuff but I know she's been very busy lately so that doesn't mean a whole lot

[Ankamius]

I'm not cranky about length, Pine

It's me being transparent

[Ankamius]

I think Ank kind of jumps directly from one certainty to another, and then doesn't diminish any of her certainties unless the facts have gotten bad enough she feels it's time to discard it for an entirely different certainty. Or something like that. I don't know. Ank is kind of special sometimes.

My playstyle is basically the scientific method; start with the conclusion and test it until I either disprove it or reach a point where I won't be able to anymore and need to confirm it completely via flips to continue

The goal isn't to lynch scum every day but to give myself enough information to properly narrow down who CAN be scum to put town in an unloseable situation

This is exactly how I played starry night

[Ankamius]

But I'm not certain about anything

You know I'm certain when I'm hard pushing

[Ankamius]

I'm finding pops' scumread on me to be actually bizarre now

[Ankamius]

How much of the last 8 pages should I read? I got 2 pages through before starting to wonder if it was worth reading through

[Ankamius]

VOTE: LLD

[Ankamius]

What's your progression?

Is this to me?

[Ankamius]

Yeah.

You're thinking too hard about it

[Ankamius]

Yeah.

You're thinking too hard about it

“Thinking too hard about it” is practically the dictionary definition associated with this game

This game?

It's the definition of my entire life

[Ankamius]

Ok skitter

[Ankamius]

:O

[Ankamius]

I appreciate Firebringer for always being paranoid of me no matter how obvtown I am

[Ankamius]

Pagetop!

[Ankamius]

There are good odds that tornados are going to hit me tonight and I both live in a mobile home and am not sure whether our shelter is even still available

So if I vanish, then you know what happened

Just a warning

[Ankamius]

Hey FormerFish!

I haven't had time to listen to your upload but I'm still looking forward to it! :)

I did, however, have time to ISO jjh as you suggested. And holy ahitballs, no wonder he was null! 110 posts, and maybe 11 are actually helpful for reads. MAYBE! Like, I feel like he's only talking mechanics and vote slinging. That's it!

He might have scumreads on myself and Krazy, but that's it. That's all I know. In 110 posts!

Damn man. That's impressive!
You get a big old scumlean!

Now I have a dentist appt. Bye

This doesn't feel like normal jjh-scum nor pine influenced jjh-scum to me (???)

[Ankamius]

Ankamius
Alisae
Chickadee
Aristophanes
The worst
Firebringer
Greyice
Skygazer
MariaR
Untrod Tripod
Krazy
DrippingGoofball
Xofelf
Pink Ball
Katsuki
Formerfish
PenguinPower
Jjh927
Popsofctown
Gamma Emerald
Iconeum
Dannflor
Mastina
chennisden
Menalque
Lady Lambdadelta
Pine

Roughly where my reads are at atm

[Ankamius]

I've done a good chunk of skimming and I haven't taken as many notes as I've wanted to so far

[Ankamius]

I've been skimming since the pace sped up, FF. It was roughly around that point.

Pink Ball the differences between the names are very real, I have different shades of null on different players based on a metric that I'm keeping downlow since I suspect that there's multiple scum in that gradient somewhere atm and I don't want to tip them off on what the metric is enough for it to be manipulated.

But I do have reasons to have several names roughly above null and roughly below null.

[Ankamius]

For reference, Xofelf is my dead null spot.

[Ankamius]

I'm not looking for dance partners soz

I'm a single type of lady

[Ankamius]

I think Ank picked up on it momentarily too but talked herself out of it or something.

Explain?

I'm not looking for dance partners soz

I'm a single type of lady

Not the way you gather your reads?

That was me being a smartass

I generally get reads on people indirectly since I have a tendency to tunnel when I interact with my scumreads directly, and generally when I null read someone I either need a jumping off point to get the info I need to get a read on them or some other way to get you to do something AI by my metrics

So yes interactions do help, but not direct interactions most of the time unless I need something specific or am doing a reaction test

[Ankamius]

Oh I actually forgot about that

Ya he's a scumlean, not a townlean with that in mind.

[Ankamius]

Formerfish, I'm open to talking about other reads if you're interested in that instead.

[Ankamius]

Ank, why is Dannflor so low down on your readslist

Not impressed with him so far

[Ankamius]

That's not very specific

That is probably closer to where the read is coming from tbh

[Ankamius]

Awwwww that was cute, thank you Ali!

I don't remember anyone saying the first bit, I'm actually kind of curious what exactly you mean by it.

[Ankamius]

Krazy not being around is NAI.

[Ankamius]

Opposite reads + the early townread on me, Gamma.

[Ankamius]

1715 kind of feels like my general strategy in Jazz mafia when I got wagoned on d1

[Ankamius]

Alisae, what is your read on GreyICE?

[Ankamius]

She claimed commuter and that's it

It's presumably an unlimited commuter yes

[Ankamius]

Oh fuck that game

We lost by missing a kill on a mason like n3

[Ankamius]

This game feels like it's going down a road where scum are going to have the game won by like d3 but the game will go on for like 5-6 more days

[Ankamius]

I changed my answer FormerFish it was a counterwagon to Ank

What a shocking answer

This isn't like every other town game I ever play on this site

[Ankamius]

I feel like your uncertainty and SR on me makes sense from your point of view. I hadn't fully explained myself and I can see how people could be confused about 1022. I think your behaviour indicates that you have a degree of uncertainty about your read which is normal from town D1 and your interactions with me seem to be from someone trying to get into my head and see where I'm coming from i.e. someone trying to actually sort me. You might end up wrong, but I still think the way you're going through the process is towny.

Ank, on the other hand, has just doubled down and isn't displaying any of the uncertainty I would expect from town, especially someone who apparently got to a SR on me based on my entire play of 3 posts at the time that happened. The degree of certainty from that point is strange to me. It's not necessarily scum, but given limited information at this point in the game it makes me happier with calling Ank scum for now because I don't think others are much scummier

also I actually forgot to do this VOTE: ank

still think chicka is bad but now I think ank's worse

dude
I think ur onto something

.........what?

[Ankamius]

wtf Alisae are you drinking the koolaid too?

[Ankamius]

Okay, I'm just going to go into this now because this shit is very relevant to my alignment.

1. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that Jingle almost always drafts me in his first set of picks; if not his first, always his second. He's seen enough of how I play

and I've literally HARD STOMPED HIS SCUMTEAM

before. He's either modded or played in a lot of my stronger games on my main account this year, and he was in my strongest scum game of this year. Because of this,

Pine has to draft me first if he wants me on his team

. He can't rely on being able to pick me for his team after the first draft, and that's even assuming that he is aware of Jingle and my history on the site.

2. The way I'm playing this game makes absolutely no sense for scum!me. I'm very well aware of my weaknesses as scum, most notably being that I am able to fake the majority of my towntells, but not at the same time. I can't hyperpost, make believable trajectories, AND be consistent tonally at the same time. In this game, I have been among the top posters for a lot of the game, outputted a lot of reads, and yet nobody has been able to pick up on any major tonal discrepancies up to this point. This is my scumgame of the century in the case that I'm actually scum this game.

3. I'm purposely holding myself back. I'm partially doing this because of the hyperposting thing and I don't want to create another Starry Night out of respect for those that don't want very fast games, but the more prevalent reason for why I'm holding myself back is because

it will not end well if I go hard and start going by my own rules and mindset towards how I play.

I work best when I have enough sway over the game to get the flips I need to narrow down the game to a winnable state, and I learned a harsh lesson from Anuket Topaz that when I try to go that route when there's enough leader/rebellious/etc. types in the game, I compromise my own ability to reach the flips I want and tilt out of the game, literally becoming useless to everybody. This playerlist is very very likely to resist me if I go this route and just cause a bunch of drama bullshit in the thread that it really doesn't need. It's better for me to hold back and do what I can from the background to keep the playerlist focused.

4. I'm pretty much always a nightkill by scum this game as town, most likely in midgame somewhere before I hit my stride and start hitting outright solves. I'd be surprised if scum didn't have at least one person that was aware of this, and Pine has seen a recent enough example to believe it.

5. Alisae, this is specifically to you: I've literally never played with Menalque before. I don't know how he plays. He fits the specific type of player I've been trying to hunt for because the way I'm seeing the game, that specific type is the most likely to hold scum. His response to me was horrific. At best, he has a playstyle that will always result in false positives for me, but I don't actually understand what about him is townreadable unless he just has one of those weird playstyles I can't actually read.

[Ankamius]

like ur gonna tell me u still read Mena as scum and not consider that?
You definitely catch that Ank if you're town.
I swear, its not about his playstyle or anything

its just the timing on it and him being late seems town
if he was scum, he probably just doesn't ask at all.

It really rubs me the wrong way when somebody who has done essentially nothing responds to something like that by doing the exact same thing

I took it as a panic grab and the neighborizer being his best role or w/e being an excuse to justify it, then the way he lashed back out at me when I prodded him on it was too defensive for me to see it as coming from a town mindset

I'd have expected a less dissonant response by denouncing that decision and focusing more on that rather than trying to snag the fruit for himself

it's the mindset I'm looking at, not the action.

[Ankamius]

Krazy

read of me pls

[Ankamius]

am I really going to be fucking vigged n1

is this really happening

[Ankamius]

Okay, I'm just going to go into this now because this shit is very relevant to my alignment.

1. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that Jingle almost always drafts me in his first set of picks; if not his first, always his second. He's seen enough of how I play

and I've literally HARD STOMPED HIS SCUMTEAM

before. He's either modded or played in a lot of my stronger games on my main account this year, and he was in my strongest scum game of this year. Because of this,

Pine has to draft me first if he wants me on his team

. He can't rely on being able to pick me for his team after the first draft, and that's even assuming that he is aware of Jingle and my history on the site.

2. The way I'm playing this game makes absolutely no sense for scum!me. I'm very well aware of my weaknesses as scum, most notably being that I am able to fake the majority of my towntells, but not at the same time. I can't hyperpost, make believable trajectories, AND be consistent tonally at the same time. In this game, I have been among the top posters for a lot of the game, outputted a lot of reads, and yet nobody has been able to pick up on any major tonal discrepancies up to this point. This is my scumgame of the century in the case that I'm actually scum this game.

3. I'm purposely holding myself back. I'm partially doing this because of the hyperposting thing and I don't want to create another Starry Night out of respect for those that don't want very fast games, but the more prevalent reason for why I'm holding myself back is because

it will not end well if I go hard and start going by my own rules and mindset towards how I play.

I work best when I have enough sway over the game to get the flips I need to narrow down the game to a winnable state, and I learned a harsh lesson from Anuket Topaz that when I try to go that route when there's enough leader/rebellious/etc. types in the game, I compromise my own ability to reach the flips I want and tilt out of the game, literally becoming useless to everybody. This playerlist is very very likely to resist me if I go this route and just cause a bunch of drama bullshit in the thread that it really doesn't need. It's better for me to hold back and do what I can from the background to keep the playerlist focused.

4. I'm pretty much always a nightkill by scum this game as town, most likely in midgame somewhere before I hit my stride and start hitting outright solves. I'd be surprised if scum didn't have at least one person that was aware of this, and Pine has seen a recent enough example to believe it.

5. Alisae, this is specifically to you: I've literally never played with Menalque before. I don't know how he plays. He fits the specific type of player I've been trying to hunt for because the way I'm seeing the game, that specific type is the most likely to hold scum. His response to me was horrific. At best, he has a playstyle that will always result in false positives for me, but I don't actually understand what about him is townreadable unless he just has one of those weird playstyles I can't actually read.

And.
What if I told you.
That in my planned readslist wallpost where I'd explain my read on you.
The entirety of what I was going to say was,
"There's only one world in which Ank is town, and that's if Jingle sniped her before Pine could pick her up"?

this logic is sound, but you also have to apply it the other way: There's only one world in which I'm scum, and that's if I am Pine's first draft.

If I'm not Pine's first draft, then I'm town.

[Ankamius]

ok bye

[Ankamius]

idk alisae

I feel like at this point it should be obvious to people that have a decent amount of exposure to both my towngame and my scumgame should be able to tell that I'm not scum

[Ankamius]

3. I'm purposely holding myself back. I'm partially doing this because of the hyperposting thing and I don't want to create another Starry Night out of respect for those that don't want very fast games, but the more prevalent reason for why I'm holding myself back is because it will not end well if I go hard and start going by my own rules and mindset towards how I play. I work best when I have enough sway over the game to get the flips I need to narrow down the game to a winnable state, and I learned a harsh lesson from Anuket Topaz that when I try to go that route when there's enough leader/rebellious/etc. types in the game, I compromise my own ability to reach the flips I want and tilt out of the game, literally becoming useless to everybody. This playerlist is very very likely to resist me if I go this route and just cause a bunch of drama bullshit in the thread that it really doesn't need. It's better for me to hold back and do what I can from the background to keep the playerlist focused.

this + other hobbies + work + sleep schedule changing every 3 days

[Ankamius]

I'm just going to go to bed

I think I'm a lot more prickly about this than I really should be

[Ankamius]

Last note before sleep

Krazy engaging my point about pine drafting me or not really rubs me the wrong way

That's not the part of that post I'd expect him to focus on at all as town.

[Ankamius]

My scum range isn't all that wide though

I only survive as scum at all because I'm good at abusing mistakes towns make to mask my own tells

Once people figure out what those tells are, I'll go back to like a 10% scum win rate because suddenly I can't just force towns to carry me to a win anymore

[Ankamius]

I read the last 10-12 pages since I went to bed and it did nothing for my reads.

Just noting that for everybody.

[Ankamius]

I'm really sorry, I still haven't done a reread

League has taken over my life again and it's next level bad

[Ankamius]

I'm honestly starting to hit the point where I'm not even sure my reads can reasonably progress without flips tbh

[Ankamius]

Am I needed for anything right now

[Ankamius]

Can we give the watcher to like duckling or something

[Ankamius]

Wtf why

[Ankamius]

That was to alisae

I agree ari is obvtown

[Ankamius]

But pops is scum???

[Ankamius]

I love you too reck

[Ankamius]

Brb I'm going to go look again just to make sure

[Ankamius]

Commuter?

[Ankamius]

Zzzzzzzzzz

[Ankamius]

VOTE: chennisden

I'm washing my hands of this 1v1

[Ankamius]

PB vote chenn thanks

[Ankamius]

PB vote chenn thanks

LLD has to go for our sanity

I will bite you rn

[Ankamius]

Where's Dannflor? I need to speak to him

[Ankamius]

The

r

e's a l

o

t of awkward shenanigans going on but I be

l

iev

e

in you all to dis

c

over a way past this with no hard feelings and find the best way t

o

win this game

p

osthaste and in the most efficient way possible

[Ankamius]

Who crumbs?

I... I definitely don't crumb anything

Haha

[Ankamius]

If you got compromised like that, I'd just take over the game until I died ali

[Ankamius]

I'm honestly not convinced lld is scum anymore

Can we just lynch chennisden

[Ankamius]

Jingle when are you putting flavor in

I want to see more backstories

[Ankamius]

VOTE: LLD

I'll just throw Dannflor at chenn then

Then we'll probably watch movies after he gets back

[Ankamius]

I hope he has good movies

[Ankamius]

It's sure good for finding PRs though!

[Ankamius]

Where's Dannflor? I need to speak to him

hi i was asleep

still catching up just reached this

Can you do one of your colored reads list things

[Ankamius]

Can you do one of your colored reads list things

I've been putting it off because uh 27 players

but yeah that's my main project for today

you wanted to watch movies?

Yeah what do you got

[Ankamius]

Yeah what do you got

the breakfast club, moana, seven seasons of Buffy

yknow the usual

Looks like a Buffy night

[Ankamius]

Jingle probably likes calling me a liar too I bet

[Ankamius]

I'd like Dann's and mastina's reads list stuff before day ends

Thank you

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: LLD

I will find any L-1 and hammer vote scummy until those happen

[Ankamius]

Krazy how caught up are you exactly

[Ankamius]

I kinda want to get a reads list out too actually

[Ankamius]

VOTE: LLD

[Ankamius]

oh does that mean scum got the watcher?

[Ankamius]

oh looks like I was hammer

neat I stopped scum from getting it

[Ankamius]

I didn't bargain

I tried to hammer specifically because I wanted none of pops/PB/menal to get it

[Ankamius]

oh

scum did get the watcher

well fuck my life then

[Ankamius]

I'd bet on the watcher being a lot less useful to town than you all seem to think it is

[Ankamius]

because pops isn't town

[Ankamius]

I'll play sure

[Ankamius]

if there's no league games then I'm just going to go back to ranked

[Ankamius]

I won't post my reads list

cya tomorrow all

[Ankamius]

Arboreal doom incarnate I may be, but my word is my bond...

...with regards to fruit.

Is there anything about the fruit given out that you havent told us about yet?

Yes

They aren't as spicy as I am

[Ankamius]

Arboreal doom incarnate I may be, but my word is my bond...

...with regards to fruit.

Is there anything about the fruit given out that you havent told us about yet?

Yes

They aren't as spicy as I am

where are you on the scoville scale?

Off the charts

[Ankamius]

why am I a townread for you mastina

[Ankamius]

pagetop

[Ankamius]

Gg guys

Most of my thoughts are in the dead PT

[Ankamius]

I stopped dying when I read this game

[Ankamius]

The game was mostly balanced for day play from what I've seen

[Ankamius]

I really don't like the idea of having to rely on mechanics to win a game, especially when there's enough ability to create mechanical townblocks (which is DISGUSTINGLY strong when utilized properly) and there's enough ways to disrupt the the scumteam via desperado shot and the ability to potentially lose their night kill every single night

Me dying was the main swing of the game since I think I could abuse the town block existing harder than anybody else in the plist on top of parrying the effect that the mastina distraction had on the game, which I think was what swung the game towards scum's favor in the first place

[Ankamius]

Yeah I don't really think the game was scumsided anymore, just several townies were insistent on turning it into a scumsided game.

But like, maybe in some games you don't have to rely on mechanics, but in a 19:6 game? You sure as hell do. And while these mechanics were able to confirm people as town they really took away a lot of town agency and while that might look good on paper it really didn't make for that fun of an experience.

Scum successfully distracted town into focusing on irrelevant things all game

Kinda hard for town to come back from that lategame

[Ankamius]

what was the swing fire?

[Ankamius]

alisae had a masonry e couldn't work well with and a gamestate that went out of eir control too quickly

I really don't think that alisae is a cause of the game being lost as much as a secondary cause resulting from the primary causes

[Ankamius]

i hear katsuki had amazing reads

katsuki's read strength didn't matter after day 1

[Ankamius]

But that also somewhat sidesteps the conversation a bit.

Blaming Alisae for the town's loss is ridiculous. This game was as much our loss at it was scum's win, and scapegoating Ali really detracts from that. Scum had to sidestep a lot, had to provide some good theatre, had to interact with Pine, who was confirmed scum, without any of them seeming scummy for it. They had to use the fruit mechanical carefully in order to neutralize the benefits gained. Sure they got a couple lucky breaks, but it was a well played scumgame!

Blaming the setup is a cop out too. Town had a decent chance at power and if we hadn't lost much of it early on, we may have obliterated the scumteam! Alas that was not the case. In a vacuum is how setups are made, one can't change the setup based on playerbase, so what is a mod to do?

If we keep blaming other aspects of the game we'll never grow as players. Maybe some introspection would do everyone some good :)

I appreciate you Ari

[Ankamius]

menalque let's play another game sometime

I'm kinda curious about your style now

[Ankamius]

God, I played like fucking trash this game. Sorry to literally everyone on town but especially gamma, fb, and Ali.

I'm honestly just frustrated with myself about what feels like a long series of bad decisions culminating in the game losing vote, alongside a total failure to prosecute anything that I was actually right on in the game, or even to really push it mostly.

I think scum played very well, so I guess the reason I was upset is it just felt like I fucked up one thing after another this game.

you're being too hard on yourself.

Wrong SRs on chicka/ank early on.

this isn't necessarily a bad thing, in my case specifically you don't actually know how I play the game or that reading me is... weird. that's the kind of thing you need experience in

and really, perfect d1 reads is honestly more a detriment than a benefit in a lot of cases so having some incorrect reads d1 isn't a bad thing if you can make up for it by self-correcting later in the game

Missing ank's crumb.

just about everybody did, and that's mainly because I specifically played to make it not obvious. it really didn't help that the player with the most (recent) insight into how I play was also scum.

Not trying to push back against DGB/think about that more critically.
Getting locked into an idiotic SR on pops and Titus.

recognizing the difference between your good and bad reads is one of the best possible things you can have as a skill in this game, at least this is how I improved my read strength over time

Not pushing PP hard enough.

be careful with this, sometimes forcing lynches through is necessary but it's almost always a last resort

Thinking both the masons were plausibly scum.

this is a GOOD thing, having the masons be in nullscum territory was the perfect spot for them as long as the gamestate didn't hit a point where simplifying the game by flipping nulls is the optimal choice

Not being able to parse the WIFOM from Pine's deal correctly.

idk why this would ever be a good idea in the first place tbh

Voting mastina despite thinking she was town because I thought that resolving the issue would help the gamestate enough for it to be worth losing one town considering I wasn't certain about her.

not necessarily a bad thing, but the issue was more if she needed to be resolved before flipping bodyguard, it had to be done d2. she got lynched way too late in the game for it to have any benefit to the gamestate at all

Right that PB's interactions were off with me but let that go and allowed him to pocket me by halfway through the game, despite knowing that my early reads are often better than my late game ones.
Noticing that things were weird between dann/krazy but not really pushing it.

you have a sharp intuition, pay attention to it

Mislynching fb.
Casting that vote on gamma when I knew that dann was more likely scum, I just didn't really think that gamma could genuinely think that pine's deal was theatre.

the game was fucked before either of these lynches happened, I think both of these lynches were inevitably going to happen no matter what by that point in the game.

I appreciate people saying that this was a hard game or that I played decently, but I just think that up to my own standards I was really subpar here. I think I'm ready to engage with the thread again, and would welcome any feedback if people are willing to provide it for me.

honestly, I think the game was out of your hands

town had too many disadvantageous things happen early on in the game and the way it progressed was always going to be an issue for people to get anything concrete done until it was too late.

there's not really anything you can do about that unless you have the ability to bend people out of their tunnels, which is a rare enough ability in of itself, but I think the specific names in play would've made it basically impossible for anybody to stop once it got going

and since that gamestate was allowed to fester for so long, it's legitimately hard for people to see the game from a non-biased lens and so it's a massive uphill battle to get anything done from there

shrug