Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[jjh927]

Hey eth0s, can you link the games you've played with TL?

[jjh927]

And then he makes both possible reactions to menalque's case

[Elbirn]

It would be except he posted around it somewhat

Hey eth0s, can you link the games you've played with TL?

Ah. Fair.

[jjh927]

I think more regular votecounts would really help make more sense of this

[jjh927]

I'd like to know if I'm a counterwagon to something at which point we also discover that TL was not considered a viable counterwagon

[jjh927]

Or maybe I'm complaining about nothing

VC 1.1

EspressoPatronum (4):

Menalque, TiphaineDeath, TemporalLich, mastina

Elements (2):

Adorable, eth0s

TemporalLich (2):

EspressoPatronum, jjh927

Not voting: Elements, Chemist1422, Elbirn

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2019-10-06 17:40:00) or when a lynch is reached.

prodding elements

Didn't realise EP was voting TL before my case

[jjh927]

I should really read those pages I forgot again

[eth0s]

I feel really conflicted on this jjh case. Like fundamentally, from my own perspective, I think I am against the wagon and don't want to vote there because I have convinced myself he is town (I don't mean this in a bad way necessarily, I think I was valid to do so, but honestly I haven't been paying this game much attention for the last couple days and feel like it deserves a re-read/skim). I feel like Menalque's post that kicked it off was largely, like Chemist said, tinfoil. But then at the same time Mena has arguably been my highest TR the whole game. We mindmelded a decent amount in our PT except maybe on mastina? I can't remember if it was Mastina for sure. I need to check. I should probably also check to see if the points we agreed on were more things I initially brought up or him, but honestly I think it was mostly him?

I guess this post so far really doesn't get anyone anywhere. I need to reread things obviously. But the point I am trying to make in contrast to why I feel like I shouldn't vote it is that as much as I believe I have good reason to TR jjh, I am almost certain I have more reason to do so with menalque. At least more examples come to mind. And as town I often make this posts that others call tinfoily (hell I've done it a couple of times in this game), and a lot of the time I turn out to be right. So I don't want to totally discredit what Menalque is saying about jjh. But my gut really thinks this whole thing is TvT.

Sorry that this is the best I got right now I am really mentally drained. I'll cite my sources when my brain is working more goodly.

On a side note I think I am potentially coming around to town!elbirn? This will be another focus of mine when I come back.

[EspressoPatronum]

So yeah, on the PT shit:

1. You're accusing me of lying about stuff in the PT BEFORE deb actually died. This is actually moronic and you should be able to understand that
2.This should probably indicate to you that me and deb were posting in the pt and on good terms:

Wait there absolutely is something

We set up a means to talk to each other after the PT closed

If we said eels in a post, then the 5th word in every post after that would form a message. The message stops when a post contains the word nana

Deb said hello to me at eod because he could

Leave him alone he is precious like Nana's back hair

We have shaved it as she began to have back problems from the length and weight of the hair.

I trust that you have woven the hair into a fine garment for Nana, yes?

A waste of such a resource would be worthy of the merciless three shoe beating.

She decided to have it made into a nice sweater for one of her favorite pet eels.

You could even say hello if you were to come with me to the old country.

The burden of hospitality is never too great for Nana.

3: I can reveal what deb's information is if it would help because mastina can confirm it but it won't help at all[/spoiler]

Wow, this is an amazing use of the PT! It's a pity DEB died before you guys could actually use it.

TD and I didn't use our PT very well, it seems.

VOTE: jjh

I reread mena's case and I'm inclined to agree, jjh does a good job of crafting narratives about other players but they're logically inconsistent. See also him forgetting about his saying that ep and tl are TvT and then mere hours later casing TL

I'll admit that I didn't read Mena's case in it's entirety before now, as I assumed most of it would be drawing on a jjh/EP pairing to prove the case (which I know is false). The case actually brings up good points about jjh + it stands on its own without the scum!EP assumption.

I remember reading jjh's insistence on scum!Korina at twilight + thinking that was a bit weird, but I forgot about it shortly after.

VOTE: jjh

How does EP make both of these posts

Because I believe both of them.

My complementing you for the PT does not preclude me from being able to agree with a scum case on you.

Honestly, Chemist, I think EP's vote is the most suspect

He was against the case, then 2 more people vote, then suddenly he sees merit to it

I don't recall being against the case. Can you quote the post(s) in which I say that?

I think it's also kinda weird that he didn't vote TL after my case or engage with said case in any way

My vote was already on TL at that point.

[jjh927]

Doesn't the PT thing effectively invalidate the case

[jjh927]

It pretty much reverses the already weak point about how I might NK deb

I am genuinely annoyed that deb got killed

[jjh927]

Scum me probably fakes a guilty and gives it to deb to claim, then nightkills him.

[EspressoPatronum]

Doesn't the PT thing effectively invalidate the case

How so? Scum!jjh can still set up a code to talk with DEB and decide to kill DEB later.

Regardless of your alignment, you guys used the PT very well. TD and I made a few posts at the beginning but let it die shortly after.

[EspressoPatronum]

Scum me probably fakes a guilty and gives it to deb to claim, then nightkills him.

Didn't you tell Korina that you never engage with scum meta arguments?

[EspressoPatronum]

Scum me probably fakes a guilty and gives it to deb to claim, then nightkills him.

Didn't you tell Korina that you never engage with scum meta arguments?

Ok, jjh, literally use your fucking brain for a moment. Let's say I'm scum here, alright? My role is exactly what I claimed, but I know exactly what my flagbearing conditions are. Let's also say that it's standard flagbearer, where all members of my faction die.
I have two options for what I can do:
- Not claim flagbearer, hope for the best.
- Claim flagbearer, but attach something so convoluted and hope people believe it.

Which one is easier for scum!me to do? It's not claiming flagbearer.
Even if I have a modified ability where not all members of my faction will die, not claiming flagbearer is much easier to go with.

So please, explain why the fuck I claim flagbearer as scum, unless you believe I'm a third party flagbearer claiming town.

No

I don't do "Why do I do this as scum" arguments because they're trash

Hmmm

[jjh927]

That's not self meta

[jjh927]

That's me telling you what the best action for scum in that circumstance is and that I am capable of coming up with it

[EspressoPatronum]

That's not self meta

You're asking me why scum!you kills DEB.

That's exactly a "why do I do this as scum" argument.

[jjh927]

No, it's not

[jjh927]

Asking "Why do I do this as scum" is all about covering up awful play with increasing amounts of bollocks about how awful your towngame is

[jjh927]

I'm saying I 100% would never kill deb there because there would be multiple better options unique to myself

[jjh927]

And we're only on this track in the first place because it was suggested that it was advantageous to scum!me to kill deb, which I am quite decisively disproving

[jjh927]

What particular points in Menalque's scumcase on me do you find convincing?

[EspressoPatronum]

Asking "Why do I do this as scum" is all about covering up awful play with increasing amounts of bollocks about how awful your towngame is

I would say these two sentences are very much "why do I do this as scum?"

"Why would I claim flagbearer as scum?"
"Why would I kill DEB as scum?"

Am I wrong in saying that you're arguing the former is bad but the latter is not?

[EspressoPatronum]

What particular points in Menalque's scumcase on me do you find convincing?

His strongest point is your behaviour in twilight re Korina being scum. I see the point on framing the discussion as his next best argument.

@jjh can you link me some of your scum and town games?