Micro 892: TemporalLich's Micro Normal [Game Over]

[Vex Vience]

also, if it wasn't obvious already saude, i scumread your pred, you've done jackshit to make me re-evaluate that.

[Vex Vience]

if you want the tl;dr version of why im scumreading your slot:
1) locke did jackshit. most of his posts are direct re-phrasings of other things.
2) a lot of lockes posts feel needlessly long and could be said with a lot less.
3) youve done jackshit since replacing in, and have put forth 0 effort to trying to get people to reconsider their read of you and your pred.
4) pretty much all of your posts feel completely pointless and were just made to make it look like you're actually being active when youre doing jackshit.

not only that, pretty much the most useful thing youve done is setup spec, which isn't really that helpful to begin with. not only that, youve basically just said i have no reason for my scumread which is helpful how? if anything, it only justifies mine more since instead of trying to make me reconsider it, youre just saying "oh you have no reason for it and you cant come up with one"

[Saudade]

missed ico being saved. id have to sleep on what that makes my reads.
also, im gonna case the locke/sauce slot tomorrow and prove why they're scum.

the thing is in a proper town process, first you think about what makes someone scum or town and then go from there.
you go backwards, you pick someone as scum and then think why they are scum.
lol

[Saudade]

VOTE: vv

[Klick]

Mena, I'd be fine with just a tl;dr on your Datisi townread if that would be simpler.

[Menalque]

Nah I’d rather do the whole thing and I’ll have time for it today

[Klick]

Can you give me a snapshot/a reason to think you already have this opinion outside of thinking she can't be Dong's partner?

[Menalque]

Yeah, I think she showed a p clear progression on D1 but my TR on her is linked to dong too. Basically I don’t think she gets on her partner’s wagon when I’m the only one pushing it and it’s not really taking off, esp when her getting on seemed like what spurred the wagon to actually get going while before it was just me

[Menalque]

The progression is the unrelated bit that I need to actually case to show it, but it’s only that in conjunction with her timing on dong and her positioning that makes my TR on her as strong as it is

[TemporalLich]

VC 2.4

Dongempire (2) - Datisi, Menalque
Bellaphant (1) - Iconeum
Saudade (1) - Vex Vience
Vex Vience (1) - Saudade

Not voting: Dongempire, Bellaphant, Klick

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2019-10-11 11:05:00) or when a lynch is reached.

Dongempire is V/LA until October 6th.

Vex Vience is V/LA until October 7th.

[Menalque]

datisi towncase here:

so I think that some of dats' early posting with icon is good looking back

specifically, I know that dats is super paranoid about people she's played with before, so her tone in 46, 48, and 50 seems townie, but also just the fact that she's interacting with icon like that -- I don't think scum dats would reply to icon with a GIF there or respond so nonchalantly, I think she'd be super paranoid and try to avoid him which she explicitly doesn't do in 87 where she bugs him to answer a Q

then in posts 88 through 102 I think she's genuinely trying to sort dong's read on icon. also I think those two questions are pretty empty from Bella, and I think that empty content does come from scum more often than town, so calling it out even though Bella is now conf!town makes dats townie too (from 102 where she's responding to dong) I think 108 is more evidence of an attempt to provoke content from Bella that will help dats sort her after not liking her earlier posts. towny.

then 129 makes sense in that context. I think there were good reasons to find Bella's early game content off, dats spotted those, followed up, and then gives a kind of tentative read on Bella. this could be hedging but I think it's much more likely (from tone and from her prior interactions with Bella) to be town who's unsure "Feels kinda uncommitted? (To be fair, it is page 5/6, so it may be too early, but still.)" -- I think scum here probably avoids being fencesitty on something like this, especially scum that's as paranoid as dats

138 and 142 are both more examples of dats acting in a way that I don't think scum!dats would. like, that's borderline aggravating ico imo, or has the potential to, and I think scum!dats is more careful to avoid treading on fingers.

then I like that she's asking about the "either ways" thing from dong in 159 bc that also pinged me when I was reading through the thread, as I imagine everyone is already aware of who's actually read the game.

then I think that town!dats with some mild Bella paranoia is likely to be paying more attention to bella's posts. so while I don't think that dats calling Bella out in 176 for being lamist is actually right, I think that she actually believes that and I don't think it's manufactured. like I potentially should check 1949 again but I mostly remember dats seeming town from not posting much content at all, not from being really good at faking trajectories. oh, also, in 171 I don't think that scum!dats is likely to draw more attention to herself by saying "oh look, my RVS vote isn't random anymore"

then in 193 she's trying to cover up for dong. this is actually one of the things that does seem slightly off, because it's almost slightly appeasing in tone "did I get it right?" but I think that dong's behaviour since then makes him scum. I don't think scum interacts with their partner in such a blatantly deferent way in thread.

then I think the way she backs off Bella is from a town thought process too. Bella pushes for content in 195 and then follows up with more requests for content in 210. if dats' main problem was a lack of content, then it makes sense why it's bella's posts in-between 170 and 226 from dats are posts that would make her revise that read. I think that was when Bella generated content and took a stance for the first time (214, 217) regarding lynching chem. and then I think 232 reflects that when she gives her first readslist.

I also like that she's not trying to be elusive with that readslist and it's about the right amount. she's not trying to force people to be town if they're not (looking at her stance on dong and on me) but she's also trying to sort down to three people she'd like to lynch which is pro-town as I think you need to make peace with the fact that although there may be multiple you don't like/think are bad, they're not all necessarily scum. but equally, I think scum is prob more concerned here with looking loose from not locking people up harder and sticking to that 3 SRs pool, and again, I think this is something that hyper self-aware scum!datisi thinks about and reacts to. So I don't think that scum!dats puts 3 other people in spots where she may move them and says "yeah these are my reads but I could be flexible on these guys".

later in 283 I think this lines up with the thought process that I think is evident from her posts. I think you can actually see her undergo a change from feeling iffy on Bella to coming off that read, and I think the fact that she's able to clearly explain it here (how it happened, where the read came from, why it changed) and that you can see evidence for all of that in this wall makes it far more likely to be a thought process that's genuine, ie. from town.

slightly after I like that she's worrying about whether I could be scum with chem in 286. I think she's still wondering here about me, dong, and chem.

then I think the defence of icon is good 290. I think town is more likely to be so concerned about a player who's mislynchable (as icon often is, look how close he was on D1) and that they know is mislynchable. it's the same sort of thought process I was having around chem but just directed elsewhere. also, just tonally, I think this is right: there's not an oversell on how sure she is, but I also don't think this looks like she's setting him as someone to come back to a SR on later. like. she's not leaving the door open enough in her uncertainty for that to be easy for scum!her.

posts 318 and 355 are following up on not having answers from dong. I think scum is more likely to forget what they asked/didn't asked, and more willing to let those things slip through the cracks if it's not helpful. I think it's much, much easier for scum!dats to just let me and dong fight it out, hop onto the chem wagon when she'd expressed doubts around him early that would justify her action (along with him not really being TR) and just take the mislynch.

and I thought that trying to keep the thread civil in 389 civil is townleanable. I don't see why scum bothers to correct toxic behaviour/conflict when that's likely to lead to increased apathy which I think typically benefits scum.

then 416 is something that makes sense to me aka lynching the fucking fake mason claim and I still swear to god I have no idea why everyone has been acting like fake claims aren't scum indicative AT A MINIMUM. so datisi getting on here jives with my thought process and cements her as one of the people actually acting rationally D1

also think 517 is incredibly town both in content (" dude, we were just in a game (Mini Normal 2095) where two slots who were arguably acting the most anti-Town like were the goddamn scumteam") and in tone ("I'm just fucking done losing Town games from scum who spends the whole game doing the most anti-Town things imaginable for the Town to then go "haha personality yep they're Town™!""). I believe in making decisions based on the particular game you're in. I think that just universally making decisions based on 'truths' about the game (VCA comes to mind as a common fuckup area, as does overreliance on meta reads -- I hate the phrase, "outside X's scumrange") is a bad move that loses some games. but guess what? those general tells (anti-town behaviour) are scum indicative because a lot of the time they come from scum! I like how pissed off about this she is, because it mirrors my own irritation. I feel like I've been fighting an uphill battle that somewhere along the line is getting misled by scum who know perfectly well that dong is scum but are pushing the TSTBS narrative to keep him out of the lynch pool. the fact that datisi is taking a stand on that with me is another thing that makes her town. it's like an attitude mind meld.

also, just look at dong's progression on her: I think she's making valid points in 518 where she talks about him TRing her to his move onto her as scum once she sees through his BS and votes him (by 528 -- and surprise surprise, there's a misrep involved. he says that he's not been ignoring her when she had to answer a question three times to get an answer, that generally qualifies as ignoring in my book). also, I think dong's kinda perspective slipping in 521 regarding dats. he says "don't fool yourself into thinking that" -- I think that sounds like someone who knows that they're believing something in a genuine way, i.e. her believing dong was ignoring her. which then turns into "I'm pretty sure its menal/datisi by this point" in 523 despite there being no other content from datisi in-between the two posts, only klick voting him in 522, which is prob pressure for him to produce content when he hasn't had the time to fully lay the groundwork, only to hint at it (in 521 "your content has been inoffensive for the most part, i have to say that upon closer inspection they dont appear to be to good. I'll make a post detailing my thought process on this.")

and that's it. that's my datisi towncase.

[Datisi]

2 PRs already outted

might as well out what's left to avoid any scum gambits in the future

Allegedly 3 actually, since Dong is also a Neighbour with Icon.

missed ico being saved. id have to sleep on what that makes my reads.
also, im gonna case the locke/sauce slot tomorrow and prove why they're scum.

the thing is in a proper town process, first you think about what makes someone scum or town and then go from there.
you go backwards, you pick someone as scum and then think why they are scum.
lol

Vex said yesterday they were SRing your slot. Why do you even replace into a game if you're not gonna read then make BS accusations like this?

pedit: ohhhh boy that's a lot of text

[Vex Vience]

i thought about it some more:
if ico can't be scum here, then the team has to be: {klick, saude} with dong potentially being scum instead of klick.
if its not that, then i seriously need to re-evaluate the entire game.

also, ill get started on the saude case tomorrow.

[Donempire]

i thought about it some more:
if ico can't be scum here, then the team has to be: {klick, saude} with dong potentially being scum instead of klick.
if its not that, then i seriously need to re-evaluate the entire game.

also, ill get started on the saude case tomorrow.

wtf

[Datisi]

@Vex, you had both me and Klick at the same "level" of reads in 668. Why do you bring up scum!Klick but not scum!me?

[Menalque]

can we get a prod on icon pls

also I mean there's quite a lot of reasons in 685 dats

[Menalque]

vote dong with me kori and then we have less stress tomorrow sorting between saudade and klick for the partner

I mean it's prob saudade but it's almost definitely dong

[TemporalLich]

Iconeum has been prodded.

[Datisi]

ye but i want to hear it from them

also Icon's on his weekend VLA people

[Menalque]

oh yeah I forgot about that

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Bella

sorry

UNVOTE:

Saudade replaces Locke113

If i was a rolecop i wouldnt even bother with revealing her role and just kill her at night

this

Today's lynch is in [Datisi, Vex, Saudade]. We're going to work on couple's counseling for Dong and Menalque over the next couple of Days so that we can actually lynch correctly in the increasingly-likely 4p MyLo of me/Dong/Menalque/(scum).

i'd very much like to lynch in klick/menalque/saudude today

yeah i have a PR on top of neighbour
i don't see a point in claiming it until EoD tho

[Klick]

yeah i have a PR on top of neighbour
i don't see a point in claiming it until EoD tho

If this PR has any real significance, then I'd argue that should heavily affect your view of Dong and/or Bella. Three decent PRs is townsided in a Micro, particularly by cfj's standards.

Talk to me about your lynchpool? Is it just that you have a townread on Datisi/Vex, or?

[Iconeum]

I have a townread on both Datisi and vex yes.

[Iconeum]

Locke wasn't particularly scummy, and his ISO has sorting in it. Why would anyone want to lynch good ol' Saud today?

[Menalque]

Icon, what caused your klick read to change from “prob town unless partners with dong” to being in your lynchpool without dong?

What’s your current read on dong?

What’s your current read on me?