Open 768: C9++ [GAME OVER]

[Bingle]

And a "side" problem is I have no experience with Nor or wicked, which means I can never be as confident on them either. But still, Nor looks town to me and wicked is "almost" a town read.

AFAIK, wicked hasn’t played in forever. Treat him like me when I first got back from hiatus and you’re probably close, although iirc he was less active and less manipulative than I am over all.

[Bingle]

the stuff about jingle isn't meant to make much sense
he's p good at reading me

The stuff about me is NAI shadethrowing. He’s poking fun at me because it’s fun, but it’s something that would come from both town a50 and scum a50. Basically, he’s referring to the fact that I don’t trust my own reads and will try to solve a game through mechanics/gamestate over individual reads 9/10 times.

[Bingle]

[Bingle]

I dont think this is a good post to agree with at all, but I don't want to elaborate why.

Is it because LAL was a pro town policy because it forced people to be readable and pushed the crapshoot lynches towards the low information part of the game resulting in less apathetic shot shows and high impact XLOs?

[Bingle]

Not sure how I feel about duck assuming town!skit survives for lylo.

nobody sane leaves town!skit alive until lylo but like
if i was scum i'd be leaving her til day lylo-1

I’d shoot her N1. Of course, scum me has probably already won at this point assuming my partner(s) are semi decently positioned.

Low key, this is probably the worst thing I could be doing right now as either alignment, but I’m bored and maybe it makes interesting things happen. If I had been scum I definitely pick a fight with the scariest not-team member D1 because I’m fairly certain I can at least fizzle the wagon (it fizzled without me trying!) which means I’m not likely to eat a nk (who kills the guy in a 1v1 with the boogeyman?) I am fairly likely to be investigated using this strat, so theoretical scum me is likely a godfather/invest immune sk.

Being under suspicion D1 explains why I’m alive late. Killing the boogeyman doesn’t raise eyebrows because /of course they were killed, they’re really good!/

Of course, the opposite is true as well. Town me goes after the big fish because they’re a priority sort.

And now we have dueling Bingle and Egix wagons!

[Bingle]

I’ve used that exact strat as scum with RC, btw.

[Bingle]

Not scumbuddies with RC, picking a fight with RC to explain my endgame presence.

[Bingle]

Low key, this is probably the worst thing I could be doing right now as either alignment,

ha the worst, get it, cause the worst is a player in this lobby

Oh shit, wrong lobby. I queued for ranked, not scrubville.

[Bingle]

man bugle even tho i town read you you're making me very nervous rn because you sound so arrogant

Reread FotM. I’m arrogant even when I play like shit.

[Bingle]

The setup is pretty straightforward. Either we’re power light with a small scumteam or power heavy with a large scumteam. From any scum perspective, there’s a 50% chance exactly of there being an sk. Massclaim is likely d3 or 4, and should definitely be organized. It starts with PR/not PR, and then category, and then individual role. From a vt perspective it’s slightly more likely than not that there’s an sk, but it rounds to 50%. From a PR perspective it’s the opposite.

None of this bears discussion D1.

[Bingle]

what does 2 group scum mean

2 groupscum means only 2 max PRs and a 2/3 chance of sk. Double checking myself I realized the 50% from scums perspective was wrong, but it’s still functionally a 50% from any individual town player.

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

NBoy's 180 is gross. I don't think I like this at L-1 rn.

[Bingle]

Hm. Only L-2. Still tho.

[Bingle]

It’s earnest in a way that I doubt Norway is good enough to fake yet

Okay.

VOTE: Egix

[Bingle]

Prodge.

I think not putting any content into this post is itself game advancing content. Fite me.

[Bingle]

Of course I don't KNOW any of this (as I fully expect someone to be silly enough to suggest TMI) but the way Bingle is playing suggests he is not worried about being investigated, while -at the same time- deliberately "baiting" an investigation on himself. It could be SK with Investigation immunity, except he expressed his thought that the SK should pick BP over Investigation immunity.

Probably town. Will not elaborate.

Thinking I'm GF when I've been obviously unworried about being investigated is pretty though. You know who is a great cop target? The guy who obviously doesn't care if you cop him. /s

[Bingle]

Hi, nsg. Give me a skitter read, a spicy read, and a me read.

[Bingle]

HAHAHAHAHA.. NSG in a scum slot? SWEET.

VOTE: Binge

You know that nsg replacing in is +equity town, right? She tries to only replace into slots she's townreading. It's frustrating, because it means she never replaces into my games when I ask.

[Bingle]

i don't have a read on you or skitter and i looked at the most recent votecount to check if there was a player called "spicy" or something in this game. so that should give you an indication of where exactly i'm at

nsg never replaces into my games blind...

[Bingle]

Wicked is pretty obvtown by fogey standards. Wicked is a fogey. Hence, Wicked is obvtown.

[Bingle]

i'm scum because of how much effort i put in before i replaced in?

You're not town because you didn't replace in because of a town read. It doesn't mean you're scum, but does invalidate the nsg replaced in townread.

[Bingle]

I just realized something.

Ducky, how closely do you read games you mod/comod?

[Bingle]

@nsg i don't think i've seen egix take any strong stances here except that i'm scum after i heavily prompted the exchange. :/

I just realized something.

Ducky, how closely do you read games you mod/comod?

mmm it's not consistent.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80252

In this case?

[Bingle]

Hot take: duck should be townreading me.

[Bingle]

Btw, I know I sound like such a bad loser, but it really isn't the fact that we (town) lost. It's rather how bad they played and how poor their reasoning/logic was, and that they still debate in favour of it after the fact too.

Come to think of it, I don't think I blame you for that even. You played to your wincon and it was the TOWN that insisted that you should win it. *Sigh*

But let's talk about THIS game here. You're so "not playing" it. I mean, I remember town you trying in that 2 Mime 2 Mafia game, and albeit you missing my play in that game you were actively trying to solve the game. Here you're not even trying

1. I probably will be policy lynched =/= I should be policy lynched.

2. My scumbuddies got vigged N1 and scumslipped D2. There's not a lot of ground for complaining about teammates there, monkey.

3. You wanted to lynch the vig who shot scum.

4. You WANTED TO LYNCH THE VIG WHO SHOT SCUM.

5. Effort is NAI from me, which you should know, given the fact that you just finished watching me powerwolf rolecall and Fogport.

6. Your name is not ducky, so maybe let the great rubber one speak for himself.

[Bingle]

Wicked is pretty obvtown by fogey standards.

Would you be able to expand on this? I've spent the last ~1.5 hours looking through his ISO and I still can't get a good read on him.

Wicked is playing this game exactly the way town approached games in the before times, the long long ago, when dinosaurs walked the earth and the molten crust had yet to cool. Sure, he doesn't look town by today's standards, but he's also not a player in the current meta. He's a remnant of a distant age, who hears AP and thinks, OH SHIT ANGRY PIGEON IS HERE!

His approach is slow and steady, looking for logical grounding in arguments and the content whereas all you yungins get your reads by feels. And that looks scummy, because you don't have the reference to see what he's doing. I, unlike you plebians, have ridden the mighty Tyrannosaurus and understand the ways of the caveman, and this is a pretty classically town progression.

Continue on with gathering reads by feel with the majority, (and buy my book "Facetouching for Fun and Profit") but with the older generation that method is going to generate false positives.

[Bingle]

Frustratingly town. He's going to tunnel me all game though.

@DDL: Member this?

Subject: Fire on the Mountain [Over]

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=79020 - Only Tryhard post lynch
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78019 - Not even a real game
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77108 - Broke a setup, should have won after Eragon and thor pushed me into giving a shit by assuming bad math, but the conftown failed to hammer, halving our EV and forcing the tie
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77420 - about a third of my posts here (and in the mason thread) were demands that the mod flip me as Queen Latifah
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=76002 - I spent maybe two pages cementing bad associatives then laid down and died because scum had the game in the bag.







viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78228 - Tryhard in doomed slot
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78023 - Tryhardish, but I kinda just gave up on pushing scum reads and hammered a townread for game tempo reasons
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=77903 - Tryhard, also fuck playing against shoshin, nsg and relly in a nightless
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77055 - Mixed bag. Tryhard mechanically, but I straight up didn't give a shit as soon as the game looked over. (Read: mechanical 1v1 with the last scum). Proven by the fact that I didn't even double check who submitted an action when and thought I was in an additional 1v1 with Beavis and Butthead avvy guy whose name escapes me. Starts with a V I think.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76181 - Another mixed bag. I was supposed to low effort this game, but I spent a lot of time fighting RC. And then got shot when I paid enough attention to actually be useful the night after investigative RC got shot. This is half of the reason I didn't /in for this when asked by Ali, btw, although this game tells me me and RC can not be dicks to each other, so I'm not going to avoid games with him.
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=74422 - I tryharded the shit out of D1. And led three consecutive town lynches. Unfortunately, I was town.
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76042 - I tryharded the shit out of this whole game and would have won if Ank didn't replace lynchbait and RNG didn't hate me.


There, every game Jingle played in on the first page of my bookmarks tab.

[Bingle]

Yeah, and I'm supposed to believe you'd play the same way if you rolled scum here?? Really??

Why wouldn't I? No one here was in Fogport or rolecall, I had no idea you'd replace in, and there hasn't been a shift in my play away from being active.

If anything, this, right here, is a shift towards the more proactive Jingle.

But, more to the point, you called me scum in a direct response to a post aimed at ducky which undercuts the power of the point aimed at ducky. I get that you want me dead, but at least give me the room to play mafia while you try to hang me.

[Bingle]

I also thought NSG replaced into this game

I endorse this pithy remark and/or service.

[Bingle]

2 drunk 2 argue, but I’ll andwrt thingies tomorrow.

[Bingle]

Kindly answer about sheeping and the above questions.

I don't particularly have a stance on sheeping. If there's too much of it it's bad. It makes the sheep harder to read. It's mostly just a thing that exists that you deal with.

I used to be violently antisheeping.

Also, yeah, I think instigating a fight with skitter has made scumhunting easier. There's definitely more to talk about since it happened, and I think largely the new conversations have more substance.

[Bingle]

Who has played w/ Jingle most?

Wicked and I have the longest running relationship.

Skitter and I played together a bit years ago, but nothing recently.

Duck is probably the most well versed in how I approach the game/me as a person.

[Bingle]

1242 + 1718 = 2960

FTFY. You'd think teacher would be better at math.


Anyway this entire conversation about not understanding the proper use of contractions seems fake AF from teach.

[Bingle]

See, the implied object of "i'm" here is wrong. Thats how English works.

It's used wrong, but I'm there means I am. Very obviously. And it's really not much of a leap to think that a non native English speaker wouldn't understand the nuances of contractions and would assume I'm and I am are fully interchangeable.

[Bingle]

It did.

I guess my issue with the posts from teacher isn't so much the inaccuracy of what he's saying as the excessive pedantry. Technically, his grammatical parsing of what was said is correct, but it's also meaningless as it sidesteps addressing the message.

[Bingle]

That was @2179, btw.

[Bingle]

This is like the first thing that you've said that i've agreed with all game i think

Nah you also agreed with poking the worst to make him actually do stuff, and our reads lists earlier were pretty close iirc.

What's the case on teach beyond "He's focusing on minutia?" Cause I'm still jiving on a firepuppy lynch and I'm not sure why it fell apart.

[Bingle]

I can vote teacher, but WHEN do we lynch NSG??

Better question: Why would we lynch NSG when there's a very good chance that scum (either SK or groupscum) does it for us on the grounds that it's NSG?

[Bingle]

This is like the first thing that you've said that i've agreed with all game i think

Nah you also agreed with poking the worst to make him actually do stuff, and our reads lists earlier were pretty close iirc.

What's the case on teach beyond "He's focusing on minutia?" Cause I'm still jiving on a firepuppy lynch and I'm not sure why it fell apart.

I dont like that you like the firepuppy lynch

I feel like teacher's using these grammmatical arguments etc to engage with the thread without providing real content

You were never on the firepuppy lynch, so you not liking it isn't why it fell apart.

What is the other reason to lynch teacher? He's been a consensus-y scumread since long before he started the whole pedantry angle.

[Bingle]

I think teacher is l2 btw

l3, Nibs NB You DDL

[Bingle]

Egix96 (5): Almost50, DrDolittle, NorwegianboyEE, Nibbui, Bingle

My question, really, is what changed between this point and now, and why?

[Bingle]

well i recently finished a game with egix where we were scumpartners (and i played pretty terribly) and i remember that one of his problems there was his reticence to take any sort of strong stance. that was one of the first things that i looked at in his ISO when i skimmed before, and it felt like he was definitely making reads pretty freely.

You mean this, right before she said she didn't actually read before replacing in?

Yeah... color me unconvinced.

[Bingle]

it actually did feel tvt to me
but if i'm wrong i think nibbui was more likely to be scum in that exchange

but i didnt read it as tvs actually

Oh wow, this is virtually the same as what I thought of it.
Skitter town.

This, ftr, is the only taking stances I see from Egix, and it's also the most questionable post he's made.

[Bingle]

DrDolittle

Nibbui

skitter30
Wickedestjr
Almost50

NorwegianboyEE
Menalque

Emperor flippyNips

northsidegal

the worst
skitter30

teacher
Egix96

This is roughly where I'm at, btw. Yes, I'm aware skitter shows up twice. Orders within groupings are pretty loose, tbh.

[Bingle]

Oh do explain why i'm on there twice

Jingle i think you pushing for egix is atrocious btw

Depends on how I approach you. I'm receiving wildly mixed signals. If I try to read your behavior, you're crazy scummy. If I try to read the thread around you and impacts, you're likely town. I haven't decided which is more accurate to your alignment.

As far as you thinking my Egix push is scummy... Okay?

[Bingle]

Actually, lets talk about this for a minute. I think you've thought every push I've made was scummy, and I don't recall any reasoning for any of them other than you thinking my push on Nibs was to draw attention away from tw.

What's my scum motivation for the pushes?

[Bingle]

Bungle I need that explanation of why I shld be townreading you my friend you've kinda ducked the subject and you look like scum

My early game here was EXACTLY my early game in the game I linked. You were reading that game. Why are you not?

[Bingle]

Jingle i see exactly what you're doing here

[Bingle]

Because enough people realised that it's a bad idea.

Also don't you think you can use a nickname so I don't notice. Sneaky sneaky

Why is it a bad idea, though?

Town you should be asking the same question. There was a wagon on you. NSG showed up and said she townread you for something you weren't doing before saying she hadn't read the thread, and then that wagon fell apart. Why? Was the wagon on you town driven or scum driven? Why did no one who was voting you to L2 care enough to stay on after a really weak meta defense from someone who hadn't gotten into the game and then didn't stick around long enough to push their reads?

[Bingle]

VC 1.10

Egix96 (5):

Almost50, DrDolittle, NorwegianboyEE, Nibbui, Bingle

VC 1.11

Bingle (4):

the worst,

Almost50

, skitter30, Menalque

Wickedestjr (2):

DrDolittle

,

Nibbui

Egix96 (2):

NorwegianboyEE

,

Bingle

the worst (1):

Egix96

Nibbui (1):

Wickedestjr

Emperor flippyNips (1):

teacher

NorwegianboyEE (1):

Blatant Scum

Not Voting:

Emperor flippyNips

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-18 19:33:45)

mod notes

• Prodding Blatant Scum.

Hilighted the Egix voters in red in the next vote count. 1/5 moved to me. 2/5 moved to Wicked. 2/5 stayed on Egix.

[Bingle]

Also, I just realized this was before NSG replaced in, so DDL's reasoning doesn't even make sense if you assume that nsg's barely reading post WAS worth dissolving the wagon.

[Bingle]

Why wouldn't I be? I think he's higher scum equity than most of the thread and he's not actually doing anything to make himself more readable.

[Bingle]

skitter, give me a readlist, please.

[Bingle]

This is a godawful reason to be pushing him

Why?

Who am I scum with?

[Bingle]

Should I townread an imitation? Should I not take context into account? Do you think this is outside your scumrange?

I don't think my scumrange and townrange are different, with the caveat that I won't outright break the game for the opposite faction.

This isn't an imitation, and the contexts are pretty much the same. The parallels are very obvious, and if you think I'm doing this to fool specifically you, you're kidding yourself.

[Bingle]

Jingle i see exactly what you're doing here

What am I doing, then?

[Bingle]

This is a godawful reason to be pushing him

Why?

Who am I scum with?

Because you're acting like this is the optimal wagon trying to revive it when your reasons for pushing him are 'why wouldnt i'?

Am I acting like this is the optimal wagon? Cause I really don’t think I am and I don’t think that’s a reasonable characterization of my play.

I’m pushing to see why a wagon on a player that p much everyone agreed was scummy disappeared for pretty much no reason without that players play changing. Saying I’m doing anything else is a huge misrep.

Why are you townreading egix?

[Bingle]

Also, skitter, if you think I’m the best lynch, case me. you've had the same 4 people willing to vote me for a week and you’ve done fuckall about it. Those four people, btw?

Ducky, who you’re scumreading.
You.
Mena, who has left all the strong impressions of a wet paper sack recently and who is sleeping your scumread onto me despite wanting an a50 lynch more.
A50, who would be scumreading me if I were mod confirmed town.

Your wagon is terrible, but you haven’t tried to figure out why it’s following you or convince people of the righteousness of my demise. You’ve been content to sit back and post jingle is scum every few pages without once trying to convince anyone or attempt to read me since the point in the thread when I was being intentionally obtuse. If you are town here, you’re playing with all of the skill of a drunken toddler, no offense to the toddler.

[Bingle]

>His next 3 posts (#357, #359, #360) are only replying to skitter. He apparently reads all the game (or don't read much of it and only start reading/posting around the page the game was currently in) and only focuses on sharing thoughts with skitt, and in the end says "skitt town". I think bad scum often picks someone out to try "engaging" instead of engaging organically different people for the different emotions that each post from each person causes. I think skitt is a particularly good target for that btw.

This is the point I think bears the most investigation, btw. Which hasn't really been a secret. I think I mentioned the fact that his worst post was 360 when talking about why nsg's townread was about as convincing as shouting fire in a crowded swimming pool.

[Bingle]

Jingle tyty for the compliment

I'm very deliberately not articulating a major part of my read on you rn, and i'm p sure you know that, and are baiting me anyways; if i'm reading how this is playing out correctly, we're absolutely on the same wavelength here and the way you're handling this is scummy af, and i have an incredibly difficult time believing that this comes from town!you

I'm bouncing for vla nowish, but we can pick this up when i get back <3

Your read on me, as best as I can tell, is the following:

I acted obtuse to build reads and admitted to it.
I detracted from the worst wagon when you wanted it, which makes me s/s with the worst. Also, me/tw doesn't make sense as s/s so we're probably s/sk. (These are both arguments from you.)
I know what you're thinking.
I've been tunneling Egix without expressing why.

That's it. There isn't another reason I can find in your ISO.

The fun thing? You're now being obtuse with your reads. Your treatment of the Egix wagon was leagues worse than mine of Egix. You've been tunneling me without expressing why.

Your own case better describes what you've been doing in the thread than what I've been doing. And where I was obtuse to draw out meat and potatoes stances? Well, you've pretty much ignored every major wagon today. The closest you got to commenting on one was that you didn't like the Egix wagon because I was voting Egix.

[Bingle]

Now let me ask you one thing: You said the optimal play for the SK here is to pick BP. The question I am asking now though is what would YOU pick as SK?

BP. It's not even a choice.

The odds of a cop are = the odds of a vig. The odds of a scumkill being present are 100%. If an SK is investigated by a cop, they can still try to argue they will townside and shoot for a win that way. There is no chance for an SK who is killed to win. If an SK is false cleared by a cop, the scum team inevitably shoots them.

[Bingle]

is there a case where bingle and skitter are both town?

It's possible. I don't even want to lynch skitter today. Her tunnel on me is bad, but bad doesn't necessarily mean scum.

[Bingle]

this post is intensely ding ding

Why?

That's an intensely NAI post from me. It's mechanics, which I don't lie about optimization of as a rule (Which I'm like 90% sure you know). It's scum choices, which I usually avoid talking about period. And it's in the past.

[Bingle]

OH ding ding is like "ding ding! we got a winner"; not pingy!!

Oh. In that case, it goes without saying. This is the first setup I ever modded (I think that was actually the first game I saw wicked in too?) so I've had a lot of experience looking at it.

[Bingle]

Subject: Open 573: C9++

The Fonz, replacing

sthar8

Heartless (Antihero and TellTaleHeart)
davesaz*
ArcAngel9, replacing

Majiffy

, replacing

Brian Skies

, replacing

GrayFoxxxx

Aneninen
Death Stare (GuyInFreezer and Ankamius)
50 Shades of Purple (Nachomamma8 and pirate mollie)
T S O, replacing

Stavrogin

wgeurts
MTD
MonkeyMan
Massive
Nero Cain*

No wicked, but holy shit this playerlist. Weirdly like half of these names are still around, but the most interesting thing to me is MonkeyMan. I'd forgotten about him. A50, are you secretly an alt?

[Bingle]

was so similar to 1951

lynx?

[Bingle]

we'll win or lose by the awesomeness of the lategame town

What's your PoE?

[Bingle]

i feel weirdly zen abt this game as well fwiw
reasonable chance i'll be lynched; it's kinda w/e
our poe is quite good and i'm having like adequate amounts of fun

we'll win or lose by the awesomeness of the lategame town


nibs is v v town but yeah his exchange with you was

SILLY

that's right, i used the s word

don't have a firm one rn
nibs/skitter/nor are clearly town
drdolittle/menalque are probably town
egix is explicitly scummy but i think can be solved via sorting nsg
nsg is scummy but sortable
wicked/you/a50/teacher/nips are the wildcards

Talk to me about why you have both of these opinions.

[Bingle]

of course, conclusions > reasoning here anyway
I think we're in a high T count setup and I think we have a SK

Don't talk about this D1.

[Bingle]

{nsg}
{norwegian, egix}
{skitter, menalque}
{emperor}
{nibbui, wicked, ddl} - null
{a50, bingle}
{teacher}
{the worst}

if i'm wrong on anyone above null it'd be menalque, his is a preliminary placing

Expand on skitts/egix when you get the time, please

[Bingle]

pretty annoying honestly that there's a 50/50 chance of only being two groupscum

There isn't, FWIW. There's more likely 3, since it's a bell curve not a straight line probability distribution.

Even if it was linear, the probability of 2 Groupscum is only .375. In practice, we have a fairly close to 70% chance of 3 groupscum in a vacuum. (At least 3 heads on 7 coin flips.) The only reason multiball is a 50% is because it is a mirrored distribution. 0, 2, 4, 6 heads all have SK, and are respectively the same likelihood as 1,3,5,7 heads. 3 and 4 are the most likely outcomes, and both have three group scum.

[Bingle]

I redid the math, because I'm a nerd. There's ~ a 22.7% chance of 2 groupscum in any given roll of C9++.

[Bingle]

I wanna poke skitter more. Then we can do your consensus scum lynch. (Either ducky, teacher or me seems likely.)

Also, we're gonna hit 100 pages today IRL, so... GL.

[Bingle]

our poe is quite good

don't have a firm one rn

both of those posts include several opinions which I find fairly self explanatory, could you expand?

Snipped to show the issue.

[Bingle]

Why do you trust the communal PoE then?

Aren't you worried that other people have reads you disagree with? If you aren't, why aren't you adopting those reads?

[Bingle]

Alright, what is the communal PoE in your opinion?

[Bingle]

So the communal PoE is ~50% of the playerlist, you're in it, and you have suspects outside of it and it's pretty good in your opinion?

:thorface:

[Bingle]

I have suspects outside it?

Your suspect pool includes Egix/NSG/Emps. The group consensus contains 2.5 of those according to you. I don't see how being concerned about you being unconcerned about that is fishing.

[Bingle]

Hm.

[Bingle]

I was a counterwagon before being a counterwagon was cool.

[Bingle]

why do people get their party hats from?

Link to the speezy in nsg’s sig. she is the keeper of hats.

[Bingle]

3 days left. How long until Skitter gets back? I might need to delay the poking until tomorrow.

[Bingle]

Is wooper high priority? I've never seen him be especially good at scum. Also, I think his likeliest partner is skitter, so...

[Bingle]

That would be a more compelling argument without serial lurkers.

Like... Egix/Emps/nsg haven't really made waves, but that's not unique to this particular gamestate.

Skitter's V/LA, but even then the murderboner for me hasn't been news. Your argument applies best if A50 or Nibs is scum, and honestly? I don't see it rn.

A50, what's your PoE like rn?

[Bingle]

Grammar nazification wrt Nibs and no one will tell me, because the wagon existed before that happened and I asked why like 40 pages ago.

[Bingle]

It did.

I guess my issue with the posts from teacher isn't so much the inaccuracy of what he's saying as the excessive pedantry. Technically, his grammatical parsing of what was said is correct, but it's also meaningless as it sidesteps addressing the message.

This is like the first thing that you've said that i've agreed with all game i think

Roughly this, but pretty much everyone and their mother was saying teacher was scummy beforehand and I've never gotten an answer as to why.

[Bingle]

Teacher can I interest you in a monkey lynch today?

I could maybe be convinced. What's your issue with him?

[Bingle]

That would be a more compelling argument without serial lurkers

Eh, we’ve gone from >10pgs a day to <5 at an odd point in the day, at least by my feel. I agree several slots have lurked the day away, but the whole feel of the room changed, at least fmpov.

Accurate enough. But at the same time, skitter went V/LA and Nibs went low effort. Given that those were our two most active players...

If skitter is scum, A50 and tw are the likely partners, imo. Egix is like never S/S with skits. Nibs is just very unlikely to be scum (or at least group scum, I've got a tinfoil that he's townsiding SK, but that should self resolve as the game progresses).

[Bingle]

no one is TRing A50 but also no one seems to be interested in goingthere

Town A50 would be tunneling me here. Scum A50 would know I would think this and be tunneling me here. I don't think I can get a real read on him today.

[Bingle]

Fuckit. This feels towndriven, and I have major reservations about lynching the water-duck.

VOTE: A50

Still want that case, btw, Mena.

[Bingle]

Is wooper high priority? I've never seen him be especially good at scum. Also, I think his likeliest partner is skitter, so...

RUUUUUDE
like I'm not going to argue but rude!!!
I have good scumgames sometimes, if I slip through the first few phases / am tryharding I usually get fairly close to or endgame

It's a legitimate question. Your scum games afaicr are the micro pseudo newbie where you and wogurts almost won despite RC wrecking you D1 because town derptastic'd and the SK game where you shot scum every day and everyone still suspected you. And kept you alive cause apparently magic bullets.

[Bingle]

2503 is like the towniest post this game, btw.

[Bingle]

Lowkey don't think scum teacher tries to derail onto A50 or Egix here.

Unless he's S/S with wooper ig, which is really bleh, but scum teacher just saw the other wagon get enough momentum to match his and is not holding onto that liferaft but detracting from it to pursue a new angle. That makes more sense from town with his perspective, tbh.

[Bingle]

i absolutely hate playing soloscum
also haven't been rolling scum a bunch lately


viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78023
lategame replace in, didn't need to do much to win but did it

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79367
replace in d1?? d2?? set to stomp until SOMEONE vigged half of our team, i was one rosterfoster off sneaking into a 3p i had a chance of winning

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=77970
probably my strongest scumgame to date /o\

I'm more interested in nsg's take, tbh.

Also, fuck no deadlines. I suspected like half the scumteam (And X) and no one would listen to me.

[Bingle]

Sorry, skitt + whopper

Skitt's been on me/tw being s/s forever, but always wanted me over tw.

tw now stands for the wooper, btw.

[Bingle]

Stupid dannflor/sheep team. At least I was already dead when you betrayed me.

[Bingle]

I think A50 red flip cracks the game. Otherwise, that's a decent take on the wagon. Honestly not sure how A50 green flip would effect me at all.

I kinda just want to see what happens over the night so we can get a better idea of the setup we're in, but I don't want to give up a high impact lynch to do so.

[Bingle]

It did.

I guess my issue with the posts from teacher isn't so much the inaccuracy of what he's saying as the excessive pedantry. Technically, his grammatical parsing of what was said is correct, but it's also meaningless as it sidesteps addressing the message.

This is like the first thing that you've said that i've agreed with all game i think

Roughly this, but pretty much everyone and their mother was saying teacher was scummy beforehand and I've never gotten an answer as to why.

Teacher was scummy before because he produced v limited content

Then he turned up and produced content and showed us he’s a pedant which should come as a surprise to.. literally no one on this playerlist? I like you teacher but I kinda don’t think you’d disagree with that, and I can be too

So tbh teacher’s whole thing ofthisbeing scum being happy with the gamestate is prob true and as you said makes sense with A50 or nibs being scum and I still don’t get why no one is TRing A50 but also no one seems to be interested in goingthere

Nibs, is this an accurate summation of the teacher case? If not, what are we missing? If so, why should this be more convincing?

[Bingle]

did you read the outro of that game? enter and i were laughing about our twilight theatre the other day, it was a blast.

I know I did cause I was giving Nancy shit during the endgame . Can't say I remember it very well at this point though.

[Bingle]

Sorry, skitt + whopper

Skitt's been on me/tw being s/s forever, but always wanted me over tw.

tw now stands for the wooper, btw.

Why is that AI? If she’s town then it makes sense to focus on one person(the one she finds scummier) rather than split her effort into pushing two with half effort

If she’s scum then she knows that and she just stays on you

Even if you’re town it still doesn’t say v much about skitt imo

That's why they have partner equity. I cased skitts a while back, but honestly I'm not interested in lynching there today.

[Bingle]

I think I'm townreading wooper now too?

Like... I want to be paranoid about his play, but he just doesn't feel like he's hiding anything. If someone who is scumreading could point me to why, I'll take a look, but these might be some of the coziest pockets I've ever been in.

[Bingle]

God I wish I was scum.

[Bingle]

Specifically, how big a deepwolf threat he is. You seemed concerned by it earlier.

[Bingle]

Being scum is stressful u dummies

Scum is easy. You know exactly what you have to do and how to get to point B (Winning game). Town is hard. You can put in all the effort, break all the noses, force through all the reads, and then just be wrong. And there's nothing you can do about it.

Like, I'd take losing to my own shitty play over losing to me playing well for the enemy any day.

[Bingle]

i mean, going purely based off of past performance and scum ability he's probably among the top of the playerlist alongside skitter, you and a50 (maybe nibbui?)

i don't currently scumread skitter and i have more personal reasons to scumread him than i do you, so i guess you could consider that the origin. i might have a bit of a complex regarding things like this, blame mariaR

Alright. FWIW, I don't think you die tonight.

Odds are scum saves their priority kills for N2-3 given the potential for oneshot doc in the setup.

[Bingle]

if i was like
putting more :]s in my posts
would you townread me

Nope, smileys are a scumtell. Or they were, in the before times.

[Bingle]

ur goin down bungle

Losing is one of my strongest towntells

[Bingle]

Basically, how likely he is to be the endgame scum of the team. It's a relatively recent term, but it implies he'll fly under the radar/avoid suspicion well.

[Bingle]

why do people like responding to things i say with just "hmmm"

Hmmmm.

[Bingle]

A few different L3 wagons, but no, not particularly.

[Bingle]

Jingle's still scumclaiming btw, but i doubt this is happening today

Jingle still wants you to say literally anything about the why, but I doubt that's going to happen today.

[Bingle]

He kinda is. He’s been sifting a pr all fucking day and I’m pretty surprised I’m the only one who seems to have caught on.

[Bingle]

There’s not much I can say about nsg’s case, btw.

I have weak reads rn and they’re prone to shifting. I have been scumreading duck while explicitly not pushing him. I’m not at all convinced monkey flips scum. The only people I’m actually pretty happy lynching are both unaligned and not popular enough options to be viable.

I guess I’ll VOTE: teacher since it’s the only viable cw right now, but I really don’t think it flips scum at this point.

[Bingle]

Nope, l2. Wooper invited.

[Bingle]

Unvoted fuck mobile.

[Bingle]

Me and wooper are both l4 btw.

Remember to make skitter talk about what I was trying to do and justice wagon egix if you flip me here, btw.

[Bingle]

Jingle i'm p sure you do, in fact, know why i want you lyncjed, and that you know why i dont want to talk about it, and the fact that you keep bringing it up is why i think you're scumclaiming

See, the problem with the case being "You know why I'm voting you" is that when I don't know why you're voting me there's literally nothing I can say. Either you're town who is laughably wrong and bad or scum whose case is bullshit and doesn't want to talk about it.

So let's make this a 1v1.

VOTE: Skitter

Lynch me. I'm a VT. Lynch Skitter tomorrow unless she has a damn good reason for all of this.

[Bingle]

ftr, I don't like pisskop's play here. 2695 is icky. He should be scrutinized D3.

[Bingle]

It felt like you were too interested in explaining yourself. Like you anticipated pressure for dropping a Doc claim as a lynch and preempting it, which I don't think is something that occurs to town.

You're not the lynch today, though, so don't worry too much about being caught.

[Bingle]

Is it typical for scum to fakeclaim as a doctor in this setup?

It's objectively the worst fakeclaim in the setup.

[Bingle]

Well... I guess IC, mason and SK are worse.

[Bingle]

I don't consider "he's been softing" a real reason to not lynch someone

It's not. It's a reason not to lynch someone D1 though. Especially in this setup.

Almost alt slipped there.

[Bingle]

I mean... Unless you want to vote skitter with me.

I think Egix is also a good contender for scum. I don't see a lynch happening outside of me and skitter though.

[Bingle]

On the plus side, given outed doc and the setup there's a good chance you get to live for several days. Don't lynch teacher tomorrow either, given 1 shot doc is v possible.

Make wooper claim. If he's in a conflicting branch, probably massclaim right there. Make scum commit early.

[Bingle]

I’m down to lynch egix as my most suspect on my wagon?

No, we resolve me/skitter right now.

If it lasts til tomorrow it's just going to be another 2 weeks of nothing useful for the town.

[Bingle]

Because we don't lynch skitter tomorrow if we don't lynch me today?

Like... If we lynch wooper, regardless of what he flips, no one is going to change. If he flips red, I'm going to get turbolynched, despite the fact that we're pretty clearly unaligned. If he flips green, skitter is going to continue tunneling me and no one is going to push her to do anything else.

When I flip, it's going to be pretty clear what my intentions were and are.

[Bingle]

Deadline: 2 days, 5 hours, 12 minutes

Idk if i'm wrong why should i be townreading you here?

viewtopic.php?p=11291226&user_select%5B ... #p11291226

[Bingle]

That's my ISO.

[Bingle]

Why is it a townie one?

You refuse to scumcase me and then demand I towncase myself when I commit to the 1v1. Nah, eat rope skitts.

[Bingle]

Also also, anyone mind if I take out PK tonight?

Nope.

[Bingle]

Is anyone actually townreading bingle?

Wicked/DDL/maybeTeach/probablypisskop

NSG and Nibs are both NotToday reading me, but nsg will lynch me over you. Everyone else has expressed some level of interest in my lynch.

[Bingle]

The only thing I can think of is you're softing masons with ducky, which would be a scumclaim.

[Bingle]

How do you even get to me being masons with ducky lol?

Your 'he's scumclaiming' bit came immediately after I pointed out that you and ducky had weird interactions the first time. Clearly, the information has something to do with the relationship between you and ducky. Thus... Either you're scum together, you're scum making this up, I have no idea what you're talking about, or you have the literal only role that gives you weird interactions D1.

Given your early push on ducky, it's not the masons option.

[Bingle]

[Bingle]

[Bingle]

your experience with bingle/jingle is ___?

None, AFAIK.

[Bingle]

Literally everyone else on the list has been in a game I've played/modded before, FWIW.

[Bingle]

People townread nsg? Huh.

[Bingle]

I mean she's scumsiding so why don't we just lynch nsg?
VOTE: nsg

We will make this a thing.

[Bingle]

Therefore, consider this a spiritual return to tws slot until I have some idea what the votecount is.

We're not lynching him today. Try again.

[Bingle]

Hey who here can read pk?

Who cares? A50 claimed he's gonna vig him. Either he dies or he doesn't, at which point the town players can worry about it while you try to argue your way out of the noose.

[Bingle]

Do y’all are saying I missed something while mobile?

I outed that tw has been softing a PR since early game, and that's why I've been dancing around that slot. I claimed VT. I demand to be lynched or to lynch skitter.

A50 claimed he's gonna shoot pk. NSG doesn't want to lynch either of us (with a willingness to lynch me if necessary), but honestly doesn't matter past that. PK is scummy, but also not getting solved today. Egix has still done all sorts of fuckall, but nsg is blocking that lynch. Wick and DDL haven't been back since my claim. I think that's everyone who matters.

[Bingle]

Is it bad that i dont think masssclaim is an awful idea rn?

It is, objectively, an awful idea to massclaim while there's a claimed doctor and a potential for further protectives and ~48 hours left in the day. Nice try though.

[Bingle]

Jingle i'm literally never getting lynched here

What part of my play seems like I expect you die first?

[Bingle]

:raised-hand:

[Bingle]

For clarity, roughly half of the PRs in the setup are 1shot. If you really want to murderboner him, murderboner him after I'm dead, nsg.

[Bingle]

It isn't. You know it isn't. It DOES buy him a day in this setup. Stop pretending to be dumb.

[Bingle]

kinda thinkin full claiming may be smart

No, shutup you do that tomorrow.

On the off chance you are town, apparently I'm the only one who's seen anything so scum is guessing how useful you are.

[Bingle]

nsg said so, apparently.

[Bingle]

actually if skitter is leaning heavily into meta i think it's really strange she's decided to push me hard d1 - i'm actually emulating my confirmable-TPR meta

I am pro lolhammer but can't see myself doing it intentionally for a while yet

I'd actually rather eat my entire sock drawer than towncase myself

Knowing when to end the day is a science. It's not time to end the day yet (at least isn't advantageous to my wincon)

I have no idea what the last paragraph above me means, I'm calling for folks to stop asking me boring questions bc my time is better spent on non me slots

Also the post about it being power-lite, and a few others, but this is what started the read.

[Bingle]

VOTE: wooper

[Bingle]

Mason was actually most likely to be a scumclaim, tbh.

859 specifically implies he needs to decide his night action.

[Bingle]

Well at least we now know jingle/tw are prob not aligned

That was fucking obvious when I refused to let him lazyplay this game. On like page 2.

[Bingle]

DDL is my strongest tr, tbh. Don't ever lynch that.

[Bingle]

Bingle, can you answer this?

Is wooper high priority? I've never seen him be especially good at scum.

Can't recall if you explained this in depth. What aspect of his play here struck you as being beyond his scum-capability?

None?

I've never townread wooper. I've wanted to give him a night phase. I've wanted him to be town. I've never thought he couldn't be scum.

[Bingle]

I feel like scum do the bravado-y thing all the time

Sure. But so do town. I never expected to live through today before wooper claimed, but I did expect you to have to burn every lest shred of towncred you had in getting me lynched. Hell, there's still a very good chance I die here. And I'm happy with that, because my death will make you lynchable later on.

[Bingle]

but if he is Town he is good enough for scum to consider shooting him at night even as a claimed VT.

[Bingle]

You know what?

VOTE: Egix

Other acceptable lynches are pisskop/Menalque, but since these may have an impact on the game later I will give them a pass for today.

P.S. If we have a 1-shot Cop they should check PK. If we have a full Cip they should check Menalque. This way we avoid cross-checking AND we are telling the Vig -if existent- where NOT to shoot.

Note: I am NOT telling anyone how to play. I am just trying to get us organized to achieve the optimal amount of info on N1.

There's potentially a godfather in this setup. IF we're leashing potential investigates (which I think is a bad idea) the person being the lynched and the person who lead the lynch both suggest a pairing, and you use the person who was lynched if green flip and the person who wasn't if red flip.

[Bingle]

There's like nobody townreading him rn

Reading comprehension is tech.

[Bingle]

Full cop on Egix/A50 (Choose between in case of both cop in that pool and multiple cop shenanigans), 1-shot on Skitts/wooper if I'm lynched and flip green, I guess.

It's not a great solution, given that it means scum can shoot clears if they're town, but I guess it's probably higher EV than fullrandom?

Full vig should shoot a scumread, partial vig should holster. Partial blocker should holster. Full blocker can't be targeted effectively. Masons should shoot anyone the mod will let them. Partial doc should protect teacher 70% or holster 30%. Full doc should protect teacher.

Missing kill heavily implies teacher town, softly implies teacher target town.

[Bingle]

That entire post took me less than a minute to reason out, skitter. Town you could easily do the same looking at how I say I feel about each player in the list. Woops should probably do the same just ic.

[Bingle]

Stronger scumreads merit 1 shot cop, weaker scumreads paranoia/lurker merits full cop since they're less likely to need to claim. It's not hard to point cops if you have real reads, even if they are weak.

[Bingle]

nsg

Tell me more.

[Bingle]

Hmm.

[Bingle]

This is A. predicated by my flipping scum and B. Not going to result in a lynch before an opportunity for claims.

All you have to do woops is suggest who should be copped if you are lynched and flip green. That's it.

[Bingle]

This being skitter's cop list.

[Bingle]

Wasn't telling you, skitter.

I feel like nsg is actually probably a good cop if I flip scum here? Like, it can't happen, but her reluctance to lynch me OR townread me is weird AF. My only hesitance is she's a likely nk as scum too if there's an SK in the house.

[Bingle]

My list is who to cop if I flip green. If I flip green you can implicitly trust I'm not aiming you at a Godfather on purpose. Your list is "If I'm right and Jingle is scum, this is how cops should act" because fucking obviously we'd be unaligned.

It's not going to end up being used, but it is interesting to try to read you by it.

[Bingle]

pedit: pick from my lynch list, at the absolute exclusion of nsg

Which is?

Woops btw is if we lynch wooper and he flips green, which is also unlikely since I don't think we're not lynching me still.

[Bingle]

Lowkey, I think today is a town lynch either way at this point. But I also think it's a town lynch that needs to happen.

I have faith in this town over many others to manage to come back from this. Regardless of who scum is, I think all of you have done a ridiculously good job of being town, and this whole game is hard not because people aren't readable but because people are too obvtown, if that makes any sense.

[Bingle]

(tbf I don't have a lot of experience with your ability to obvtown)

I can't in this setup.

My scum range and my townrange are roughly the same range.

[Bingle]

The frustrating thing is that these posts are exactly the posts I would make as scum here, and I can explain why I would be making them as scum here, and that inherently means you shouldn't townread me for them.

[Bingle]

As the person in question who has no idea what she's talking about, I can answer that.

Defusing shitty wagons on yourself is the best way to ensure you live to endgame in multiball. If I knew something that would make skitter push a shitty wagon on me that I could defuse and then shoot her before she could renew it, I 100% would do exactly that. Especially as a godfather.

Yeah. Frustratingly, there is very clearly a world in which I am scum here. I just don't think there's a thing she actually thinks scum me has seen.

[Bingle]

Also it's more like i know and think he should know but is acting like he doesnt which is why i think he's scum

Yeah, so... If you're town PM it to nom so I can learn what it is in the dead thread?

[Bingle]

I’d rather the whooping crane, but will give

intent

-11hrs to give a confirmable time and allow shakeout.

Caveat: I will be asleep in 11 hours. If there are things for me to respond to (like, specifically directed at me) please let me have until 3 hours before deadline to ensure I get to them.

[Bingle]

If robert downey jr is the new dolittle I'm much less excited than I was about that movie.

Also, weren't you supposed to become a wizard?

[Bingle]

Hey guys. I misread my role PM.

Turns out I was masons with Majiffy.

[Bingle]

Nope. *reasons* is shorthand for I'll get sitebanned if I explain fully.

[Bingle]

On occasion I've used *reasons* as a cheeky way to say I'm scum so I know he's town, but I wouldn't have done that as scum in potential multiball FWIW.

[Bingle]

Also, obligitory cheerleading:

GO SK!

[Bingle]

Is no one going to engage in my WIFOM?

DAMN YOU YOU FILTHY MONSTERS, I DEMAND ENTERTAINMENT IN RETURN FOR MY LYNCH!

[Bingle]

Full cop on Egix/A50 (Choose between in case of both cop in that pool and multiple cop shenanigans), 1-shot on Skitts/wooper if I'm lynched and flip green, I guess.

It's not a great solution, given that it means scum can shoot clears if they're town, but I guess it's probably higher EV than fullrandom?

Full vig should shoot a scumread, partial vig should holster. Partial blocker should holster. Full blocker can't be targeted effectively. Masons should shoot anyone the mod will let them. Partial doc should protect teacher 70% or holster 30%. Full doc should protect teacher.

Missing kill heavily implies teacher town, softly implies teacher target town.

Night action map, for reference.

[Bingle]

Wicked/DDL are my strong townreads, followed by mena. I've felt lukewarm on Nibs for a while, tbh.

[Bingle]

Youll flip red

Nah, I'm unlynchable.

[Bingle]

Same. I hope you stick around, you're always fun

[Bingle]

Jingle i couldnt believe that you didnt see the egix crumb and/or werent reading me/egix as masons (but somehow got me/ducky as masons ???) So every time you defaulted back to pushing egix even tho i was trying to signal that you should back off i was just ???

I don't look for crumbs. Especially doc crumbs. Because crumbing a protective role is bad. I look for behavioral patterns.

And, tbf, I did pick up that something weird was happening with people interacting around Egix, just not that apparently everyone but me had picked up on a doc soft.

Didn't read the end of the game, but all of the fakeclaiming was terrible. Also, 1 shot doc should immediately claim in this setup, although tbf I should have said that while alive.

[Bingle]

^That's why I usually hit the hide my online status button unless I plan to troll or have an excuse as to what I'm reading.

[Bingle]

I thought your post quality was related to capability...

Also, happy scumday!