Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Amrun]

@GL: I feel pressure. I don’t mean to suggest that. Your vote, though, didn’t add pressure to me, from my view at least. Going from 5 to 6 or whatever didn’t make a difference.

[Pretentious]

Expected to have been prodded, but I was just nearing it.

I thought for sure everyone would have posted in that time, so it’s weird to see Ico having been gone longer than I have.

[Pretentious]

Maybe I’m noticing that more because Salamence asked me about it, and that’s been on my mind, but I need to reread this game.

[Salamence20]

Hi I'm pissy and will get back to this tomorrow.

this games activity really makes me wish we had more guns.

also WHO THE FUCK IS TEXCAT LOL?

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:

Don't really want to do Amrun anymore. I think this is a better vote for today.

VOTE: Guilty Lion

His hop on the Amrun wagon was gross and I agree lack of a counterwagon is unsettling.

Have you seen Amrun's voting? And you don't think it's at least equally gross?

[Iconeum]

VoteCount 1.4

amrun [4] - Datisi, Iconeum, GuiltyLion, Creature
GuiltyLion [5] - texcat, Amrun, AaronFrost, Salamence20, Dogwatch
texcat [1] - DrDolittle
DrDolittle [1] - Menalque

Not Voting [3]

- Something_Smart, Pretentious, alimdia

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-12-11 13:35:31)

The GL wagon is made of really really fluid poop

[Iconeum]

And also, Amrun should always be the lynch today.

If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow. Better off lynching today and working from there (with wagon information from today). I know a bunch of players who are gonna look pretty ropey if Amrun flips red.

It's just the best lynch.

[alimdia]

And also, Amrun should always be the lynch today.

If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow. Better off lynching today and working from there (with wagon information from today). I know a bunch of players who are gonna look pretty ropey if Amrun flips red.

It's just the best lynch.

tbh same argument could be made for GL.

I agree with Salamence that DW is very opportunstic, but there are others also as opportunstic. They just post less so you don't notice.

Some examples I can point out right now is:
Creature: Read his ISO. Self explanatory
Texcat: He avoids the Amrun wagon but hops on the GL one. Then he shades me using what GL says in post #500.
As you mentioned, DW is also very opportunistic

[alimdia]

if we don't get any major serious wagons, then people aren't forced to give real opinions on anything. Amrun at L-2 or L-1 is important, it is something that every player needs to react to and puts scum in a more difficult position regardless of your alignment.

Five different wagons at L-6 or L-7 or whatever isn't a difficult game state for scum. They can just park a vote on convenient scumread of choice and then compromise Lynch to whatever's easiest once everyone starts panicking about deadline

Firstly, I want to apologise if I was tunneling on SS.
However, I already defended myself from your statements of me ignoring the wagons on purpose.

Let's get to some hot stuff. Lets see the quote I just quoted.
Now look at SS. He hasn't voted. He wasn't V/LA like me.

This will be my last response to the matter below. However, if you would like to reply to just the stuff above this, that's fine.

Um.. wtf kinda response is that? fuck meta mate I haven't even played a game with you.

Not a meta response! It deals exclusively with this game-- how I would hypothetically play in this game as town, and how I would hypothetically play in this game as scum.

Those are quite obviously relevant in reading me, and if you have an opinion on my alignment, it must mean you think there's a mismatch between the two-- I would fencesit as scum where I WOULDN'T fencesit as town.

With me so far?

Right, so what I want you to answer is, if I'm scum, do you think I'd be aware of the fact that as town I'd be making commitments, and then choose not to make them, transparently revealing myself to anyone who's ever played with me before?

I don't care how you hypothetically play as town or scum.
You'd play the same way both roles 'hypothetically'.
What you're doing is anti-town at best, scummy at worst.

Its scummy because you lean into any direction at any time. Its anti-town because you give nobody any info if you get lynched or NK.ed


@guiltylion, I could care less about your second hand meta, or any meta.
Once again, I have rpelied to your #486 about what the sequence of events was....
SAme with Aaaronfrost's #666, stop trying to feed me second hand meta.
I'm done with this argument. Don't worry. I am going to ignore SS now.... hopefully someone vigs him.

[alimdia]

it is also pinging me in a bad way that amrun wagon jumped up to like 5 votes within like 5 minutes of me starting it whereas I've been suggesting ddl is scum for like a day and yet there's no play on that wagon whatsoever, despite multiple people saying that they'd compromise there or expressing doubts around his slot

After reading, lost in the many pages is that part of the case on Amrun is actually his so called 'reaction test' against me.

@Mena, did you ever address that response in respect to your case?

[alimdia]

amrun [7] - Menalque, Datisi, Iconeum, AaronFrost,

{Dogwatch, GuiltyLion, Creature}

<-- Pretty sure at least one of these three are scum. Possibly more than one.

PEDIT: I think his hop on the Amrun wagon was the worst

I'm updating my townreads to include AF and Datisi.

Amrun is a spicy wagon that I think has p good odds of scum and I'm gonna join it, but right now I feel I got a stronger read on alimdia

. I think the S_S tunnel is a distraction and disingenuous, and has given alimdia cover not to comment on anything else actually relevant going on.

VOTE: Amrun

Why exactly did he join the wagon anyways? He makes it clear that his read on alimdia is much stronger but then joins the wagon after saying scum is on it because... why? How is he reading Amrun? He never says.

Earlier he also stated he townreads Icon, Mena, Dogwatch and Creature. Then before he hops on he includes me and Datisi in his townreads. That's literally the entire wagon right there.

first off - I see this happen a lot in mafia games. Someone acts scummy (regardless of their alignment), someone relatively town leader-esque presents a case, and a whole bunch of people town or scum jump on because the slot looks scummy.

That doesn't mean the suspicious slot is suddenly town now. You all are just assuming Amrun is town because a wagon sprung up. Good wagons can go fast especially if townies are mind-melding. I strongly disagree that wagon speed is ever indicative of alignment and if anything I think scum are often afraid to sheep onto fast mislynch wagons because they know it's a mislynch.

Then, you say, "there is no counter wagon!". What just happened on the last 4 pages should make it pretty clear that

I am now the counterwagon

.

Finally, I don't just hop on that wagon as scum. Like, let's make a similar argument S_S was making earlier in the game. If I, as town, always have novel and detailed and well-founded reasons to vote someone, why would I not make an effort to recreate those as scum? Do you really think scum!me is so blasé and arguably

stupid

to talk about how I think alimdia odds of scum are >> than Amrun odds of scum yet still vote the leading clear wagon?

I already explained that I was townreading the people on the Amrun wagon and that it's far more useful to join game-advancing wagons than to vanity vote in a game with a large number of players. I'm not townreading Amrun and so I feel comfortable voting for her. I'm not gonna pretend like I've got some cool new insightful scumtell that provides me with An Original Reason To Vote This Wagon when I don't have one, I just liked the case Menalque was making, didn't scumread anybody on the wagon, and felt it would be a good vote.

Please, people stop saying 'if I was scum I would do this. I didn't therefore I am town'.... Also SS's argument is shit btw, but lets not get into that again...
Finally... your spot , the counter wagon spot, what are you thinking of the people on it now? after this...

VOTE: GuilityLion

I am slightly skeptical though, because DW and texcat are both on this wagon.

[Salamence20]

With two days left and based on the activity I don't care anymore.

I'mma just stay on the GL wagon, its time for a lynch.

Ico needs a bullet, DW needs a bullet, I won't mourn the loss of DDL.

[Salamence20]

UNVOTE:

Don't really want to do Amrun anymore. I think this is a better vote for today.

VOTE: Guilty Lion

His hop on the Amrun wagon was gross and I agree lack of a counterwagon is unsettling.

Have you seen Amrun's voting? And you don't think it's at least equally gross?

VoteCount 1.4

amrun [4] - Datisi, Iconeum, GuiltyLion, Creature
GuiltyLion [5] - texcat, Amrun, AaronFrost, Salamence20, Dogwatch
texcat [1] - DrDolittle
DrDolittle [1] - Menalque

Not Voting [3]

- Something_Smart, Pretentious, alimdia

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-12-11 13:35:31)

The GL wagon is made of really really fluid poop

And also, Amrun should always be the lynch today.

If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow. Better off lynching today and working from there (with wagon information from today). I know a bunch of players who are gonna look pretty ropey if Amrun flips red.

It's just the best lynch.

I see why Menal is weary to lynch this because its noob play.

However, coasting like this is bad. Stop it.

[Salamence20]

it is also pinging me in a bad way that amrun wagon jumped up to like 5 votes within like 5 minutes of me starting it whereas I've been suggesting ddl is scum for like a day and yet there's no play on that wagon whatsoever, despite multiple people saying that they'd compromise there or expressing doubts around his slot

this... is a really good point.

But then again you didn't personally tell people to hop on it like you did to datisi and ico.

So some people dont look to be reading....

[Salamence20]

I'm just gonna stay on GL for today, his flip gives me information regardless of alignment.

I'm going to be watching very closely what SS/Pret/texcat do in the next few days.

[Iconeum]

salamence I seriously doubt you can truthfully call my play both noob and coasting in the same sentence

either you think it's noob!town, or scum!coasting. If you think it's noob!town!coasting, then it doesn't make sense you request a vigshot on me.

Actually, since you *are* requesting my slot to be vigged, you must believe it's noob!scum!coasting.

And thus your post makes no sense from a town PoV

[Something_Smart]

If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow.

Fun fact, when I read this post earlier my half-awake brain read it as "Amrun is still gonna be

shot

tomorrow" and was like "shit that's a good point" and now I'm realizing that (a) that's not what you said and (b) there are only two guns so it isn't even true.

As it stands it's kind of a dumb argument though? Like obviously if Amrun remains widely scumread for the entire game she will be lynched or vigged at some point. There's no reason to believe she would remain widely scumread though, especially since the case on her was pretty weak to begin with and most of the votes on her were sheepy.

[Something_Smart]

Firstly, I want to apologise if I was tunneling on SS.

Apology accepted. And like I said, it's totally reasonable for you to not understand or agree with my playstyle.

But bear in mind that I didn't just randomly decide to play this way, and it's also not out of apathy or lack of investment; it's the result of four years of seeing what works and what doesn't. You overestimate how anti-town it is, I believe, probably because you have a preconceived notion of how town generates "information."

[Something_Smart]

Just ISO'd DDL. I think he's likely town unless he has a history of not giving any shits as scum. This kind of extreme reactiveness and blatant sheeping seems like it would probably backfire on him is he were scum, the exception being if one of his sheep votes was onto a partner.

[Something_Smart]

I'm going to be watching very closely what SS/Pret/texcat do in the next few days.

Why that group of three specifically?

[Something_Smart]

This is a bizarre stance to take; however, I get the impression that you rely a lot on meta so I think that’s NAI from you. I, however, think meta is trash.

Heh, was reading stuff and just noticed this post where Amrun in the same breath makes a meta read and calls meta trash.

[Amrun]

This is a bizarre stance to take; however, I get the impression that you rely a lot on meta so I think that’s NAI from you. I, however, think meta is trash.

Heh, was reading stuff and just noticed this post where Amrun in the same breath makes a meta read and calls meta trash.

That’s not a meta read? It’s based off of her behavior in this game. I don’t have any completed games with Menalque.

I do sometimes make meta reads though. They’re still pretty trash. Especially second hand meta. They only start to not suck a tiny but when you’ve played together a long time.

[Salamence20]

salamence I seriously doubt you can truthfully call my play both noob and coasting in the same sentence

either you think it's noob!town, or scum!coasting. If you think it's noob!town!coasting, then it doesn't make sense you request a vigshot on me.

Actually, since you *are* requesting my slot to be vigged, you must believe it's noob!scum!coasting.

And thus your post makes no sense from a town PoV

I mean those posts are bad, I don't know if you are a noob or not, im just going by menal's definition. I think you are just coasting because your last posts are "lynch amrun, kthxbye"

Just ISO'd DDL. I think he's likely town unless he has a history of not giving any shits as scum. This kind of extreme reactiveness and blatant sheeping seems like it would probably backfire on him is he were scum, the exception being if one of his sheep votes was onto a partner.

What do you think of the fact that the DDL wagon isn't going anywhere but Amrun's did.

I'm going to be watching very closely what SS/Pret/texcat do in the next few days.

Why that group of three specifically?

Because those votes are going to be important in deciding who gets lynched.

[Something_Smart]

What do you think of the fact that the DDL wagon isn't going anywhere but Amrun's did.

The Amrun push came at a point where very little had happened, and Menalque made an effort to solicit people to join it which added to its legitimacy. Whereas DDL push was quieter and people already have opinions by this point.

In other words I don't think it's because Amrun is town and DDL is scum, if that's what you're getting at.

[Something_Smart]

Because those votes are going to be important in deciding who gets lynched.

Oh gotcha.

Ngl I was afraid you were trying to call me a lurker