The Root of Toxicity in Mafia Games

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't agree but I think that my ideal of what the limits should be includes stuff that you aren't even considering

[Enter]

I don't agree but I think that my ideal of what the limits should be includes stuff that you aren't even considering

this is at nancy?

[popsofctown]

The good thing is that it only works so many times as scum; once you become known for being shitty as scum you stop getting TR for it

It works a lot better if you have a meta of only being toxic as town because then it effectively becomes a trust tell that doesn't violate any rules

like if you only get riled up enough as town to be really nasty then it clears you and it's not exactly 'trying to maintain a meta' it's just it is what it is and no one is going to encourage you to act awfully as scum in the interest of fairness

I think the rules on toxicity should be a lot tighter than they currently are. I think most toxicity in mafia happens because it gets results and a solid 10-15% of games are won or lost by a race to the bottom with whichever faction is willing to play dirtier taking the win.

I have to agree with the point you're making here. Especially as someone who finds forum mafia more "meaningful" than face to face mafia, it seems really unpalatable to be able to bring a mechanic that seems to have the same flavor back into the game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't agree but I think that my ideal of what the limits should be includes stuff that you aren't even considering

Like?

The closest I’ve come to a pl in a game was this guy who made it blatantly clear he intended to prod dodge the entire game and never vote until he got lynched because he refused to replace out, eventhough he clearly had 0 intention of playing.

[RadiantCowbells]

that is at Nancy

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't agree but I think that my ideal of what the limits should be includes stuff that you aren't even considering

that is at Nancy

Are you planning to elaborate?

[RadiantCowbells]

I prefer to come in, make meaningful but vague we overarching statements that give no one any specific ideas for policy changes or what I don't like, then I get to have a superiority complex and complain for years instead of enacting meaningful change and not being able to complain anymore.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I prefer to come in, make meaningful but vague we overarching statements that give no one any specific ideas for policy changes or what I don't like, then I get to have a superiority complex and complain for years instead of enacting meaningful change and not being able to complain anymore.

Alright, gotcha.

[RadiantCowbells]

(an example of something I think should be banned is threats of blacklist in mafia games. Blacklisting someone outside of game should be fine but using it as a tool to beat people with should not.)

[Enter]

(an example of something I think should be banned is threats of blacklist in mafia games. Blacklisting someone outside of game should be fine but using it as a tool to beat people with should not.)

Threatening people with a lot of things is p toxic, IMO. It also doesn't necessarily make sense - if someone doesn't wanna stop doing something just because you say stop, why would they want to do it to avoid being on your black list?

[RadiantCowbells]

Just because you think someone's scum doesn't mean you dislike the person and doesn't mean you'd want to never play with them again.

[Enter]

oh that's a different kind of threat than I considered
but also threatening someone cuz you think they're scum is extra dumb

[Enter]

wait i understand

you're saying someone might threaten a player with a blacklist because the player thinks taht someone is scum. got it

OMGUS blacklist threat
nice

[RadiantCowbells]

Like

Fuck you if you think I'm scum you're not honestly trying to read me so I'm never going to play with you again

[Nancy Drew 39]

(an example of something I think should be banned is threats of blacklist in mafia games. Blacklisting someone outside of game should be fine but using it as a tool to beat people with should not.)

People could still find their way around that unfortunately by just saying they don’t want to play with player X ever again, which isn’t technically the same but close enough but yeah, mods should take a harsher line on that because it obviously involves outside influences.


I would also add pl ing any player who tries to prove their alignment based on whether or not they pick up their role pm. Like that 100% would get you banned on MU. Similar to saying what town vs. scum!you would do wrt replace outs. As in the trust tell thread:

Okay: I have/haven’t ever replaced out/failed to pick up prods as x alignment.

Not Okay: I would NEVER replace out/fail to pick up prods as x alignment.

[Enter]

oh, yeah i get it..
tbh i agree w/ p much everything you're saying

but also i don' tknow how to fix it from a moderator standpoint

probably at least partially because i'm not a mod
so my only option is to try to fix it from player standpoint -> policy lynch

[RadiantCowbells]

I would also add pl ing any player who tries to prove their alignment based on whether or not they pick up their role pm. Like that 100% would get you banned on MU. Similar to saying what town vs. scum!you would do wrt replace outs. As in the trust tell thread:

It's already against the rules though.

It doesn't need a policy lynch

[Nancy Drew 39]

(an example of something I think should be banned is threats of blacklist in mafia games. Blacklisting someone outside of game should be fine but using it as a tool to beat people with should not.)

Threatening people with a lot of things is p toxic, IMO. It also doesn't necessarily make sense - if someone doesn't wanna stop doing something just because you say stop, why would they want to do it to avoid being on your black list?

People might do it for a cheap townread and it usually is done by town but scum!Maria did that to RC in MG. It might be hard to totally regulate that though.

[Enter]

(an example of something I think should be banned is threats of blacklist in mafia games. Blacklisting someone outside of game should be fine but using it as a tool to beat people with should not.)

Threatening people with a lot of things is p toxic, IMO. It also doesn't necessarily make sense - if someone doesn't wanna stop doing something just because you say stop, why would they want to do it to avoid being on your black list?

People might do it for a cheap townread and it usually is done by town but scum!Maria did that to RC in MG. It might be hard to totally regulate that though.

lol
wait maria did taht

never really talked to/played with her, but i always got the impression she was a nice and at least somewhat reasonable person

wow that's like a next level shitty thing to do, i would expect shit like that from like TSE or other players i've encountered recently, but definitely not a skittle , lol

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just because you think someone's scum doesn't mean you dislike the person and doesn't mean you'd want to never play with them again.

Another thing should not be tolerated. Persival literally threatened me with a temp ban in a game, eventhough I didn’t break any rules, so that should never be allowed. He wasn’t the mod btw.

[OkaPoka]

i think calling yourself obvtown is pretty toxic lets ban that too no kap

[popsofctown]

Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes

threats

, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc. Using knowledge from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges

from one game to another.

The idea that threatening to blacklist someone is not good mafia is already in the spirit of how people want games to be a approached. It just an enforcement/drawing a line in the sand issue on preventing the behavior, keeping it from being rewarded, etc.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i think calling yourself obvtown is pretty toxic lets ban that too no kap

Ha ha ha ha ha, very funny.

[Enter]

i think people ahve called themselves obvtown in a pretty toxic / unaware way before

but i think taht it's not toxic by definition

[popsofctown]

(an example of something I think should be banned is threats of blacklist in mafia games. Blacklisting someone outside of game should be fine but using it as a tool to beat people with should not.)

Threatening people with a lot of things is p toxic, IMO. It also doesn't necessarily make sense - if someone doesn't wanna stop doing something just because you say stop, why would they want to do it to avoid being on your black list?

People might do it for a cheap townread and it usually is done by town but scum!Maria did that to RC in MG. It might be hard to totally regulate that though.

lol
wait maria did taht

never really talked to/played with her, but i always got the impression she was a nice and at least somewhat reasonable person

wow that's like a next level shitty thing to do, i would expect shit like that from like TSE or other players i've encountered recently, but definitely not a skittle , lol

She announced a matter-of-fact blacklisting, I don't think she threatened to blacklist contingent on RC's future behavior, which would be much worse. I don't think she did it to get townread, I think she was actually very angry.
I guess it's mafia and maybe I was being fooled and I'm getting wolfed even after the game is over as a little vanilla townie and all that but I don't want to believe bad things about MariaR :/