Mini 2110: I hate Mafia (Day 8)

[Farkran]

Hello everyone, first time in this setup.

So... yeah, if i got this correct, and from rauth posts it looks like i am, we must lynch/shoot our best guesses at town targets.

...why didn't anyone selfvote yet?

VOTE: Farkran

By the way i agree with the vig thing. No scum kills and no roleblocks/etc makes it a safe claim which is also confirmable so there's no reason to doubt it on a counterclaim

[Farkran]

Well technically the vig shot just accelerates the game, since he could misvig a mime in the same way we may mislynch a mime

But it does confirm the vig being town, so it's still 1 confirmed town more than if he doesn't shot. Waiting to shot helps the vig "aim" better based on progression, etc

Also yeah, a selfvote doesn't confirm anything but if i had to vote my best townguess it's a no brainer, and i was wondering why no one thought of this?

[Farkran]

This game is good, because now you win if you get lynched, and if you lose, you get to play a lot more of the game!

On a completely unrelated note, I'm a Mime, please don't lynch me.

I am vanilla townie

We have two opposite claims here, one is obviously "stupid" (not in its offensive meaning, just that it makes no sense to scumclaim, so i assume the poster is either lying on purpose or being wifomy about it), the other is "lamisty".

I think this calls for the question: how do you think you should play pro-town in this game?

[Farkran]

So, change of plans, we'll lynch the vig on LYWIN. We could also have three other players to volunteer to never get lynched as long as a mime isn't killed. I guess I'll be one of them so I can explain how that works later on in the game.

Also, I think I just figured out how to break the setup.

I get the lywin vig lynch, but i don't get the other part. I think you mean we get to lywin with 1 vig + 3 volunteers + 3 other people. What if a mime volunteers?

[Farkran]

...why didn't anyone selfvote yet?

probably because it's in the mime's interest to be lynched? its how they win?

highly sus the way this post was made

It's also in the best interest of town, though? Anyways i was more wondering why no one thought of that, rather than suggesting everyone should

[Farkran]

I kinda think rauth is town too, by the way. At this time it's mostly gutread and adjusting my mindset to how this game SHOULD be played, but i think providing advice about the vig has >rand chance to come from town.

I am also wondering what kind of lywin scenario we should aim at. The vig can conftown himself, so it's all good. About the others though, is it better to remove our highest townreads earlier or later? Removing them earlier may lead to a chaotic lywin, but removing them later means we risk killing mimes in the earlier stages.

If i think through this from a standard mafia game mindset, i'd probably vote my highest scumread rather than say "hey, i'm fairly sure you're scum, stay alive while i hunt for your partners". However, i'm not entirely sure that is the optimal strategy here. In a standard mafia game you may win before lylo, but here we can only lose before lywin - there's no benefit in trying to "accelerate" the pace by removing obvtown early.

Taking risks MIGHT make sense, on the other hand.

[Farkran]

its kind of pointless to use the "what do mimes get out of this post that town doesn't" because the way this game works means town and mimes will be acting virtually the same in their goals since its the goal of both to get lynched. fundamentally, pushing a town win-con is also pushing a mime win-con when that goal is getting lynched. so everything we do will benefit both.

therefore its more productive to look at the context of how someone acts instead rather than the action itself. in this case i think farkran trying to make voting for oneself look like a townie thing to do feels more like a mime trying to find a reason to look townie, rather than a townie trying to do the same. by comparison, i think rautherdir's approach has been more townie thinking than farkran since he's trying to plan out the game rather than find a way to make easy actions look inherently townie or mimey.

I kinda agree with this on a general basis, but as i said, i was more concerned about thinking why no one had done that. I mean i was expecting to enter this game seeing a RVS made of only selfvotes, to be honest. It is true that it advances both wincons, just as trying to stay alive advances both wincons in a standard mafia game. So why is no one here trying to die?

[Farkran]

I am leaning towards thinking that the survivor group should be composed of our highest townreads rather than volunteering. I think the benefits of killing our highest TRs later are better suited to this game. I am not opposed to being part of it though.

[Farkran]

You can count me in, then @rauth

By the way a lot of town has to die to win this game, more than double the amount of mimes (13p total, at least 7 town MUST die to reach a 3v3 endgame for a town win).

Speaking about math, i also calculated wrong - there's no need to have our 3 highest townreads get to endgame, they just need to die right before endgame to make things easier. So... ideally, we start killing our 4 highest TRs (including vig) when we are missing 4 players from endgame. That means... 10 players. We always save our highest scumreads for lywin. I think this is the proper strategy.

So, d1, d2 and d3 we should kill people who are harder to read / null level.

[Farkran]

I did realize another difference between mimes and town. Mimes have to die to win. Town does not.

townies have to die to achieve their win condition though. mimes technically don't have to die either if they can get the game to no-lynch twice.

What do you seriously think is the likelihood of that even happening once, let alone twice?

Yeah, no-lynch is not gonna happen anytime soon, as long as we don't have 7 players V/LA at the same time. Twice.

[Farkran]

As for my very early reads...

I think both venmar and enter are doing some awkward analysis of the early game. I feel slightly pocketed from Enter's side, and soft-shaded by Venmar.

@Venmar do you think Enter is town?

[Farkran]

I did realize another difference between mimes and town. Mimes have to die to win. Town does not.

townies have to die to achieve their win condition though. mimes technically don't have to die either if they can get the game to no-lynch twice.

What do you seriously think is the likelihood of that even happening once, let alone twice?

Yeah, no-lynch is not gonna happen anytime soon, as long as we don't have 7 players V/LA at the same time. Twice.

Well hopefully that won’t ever happen.

If everyone goes V/LA like you are, it certainly isn't happening. I wish all games were as active as this one

[Farkran]

@Venmar do you think Enter is town?

eh i'd lean not

Why? Before your post 65 i was having the feeling that you were scumreading Enter because of his townread of me, with which you disagreed - this would have meant you already had two scumreads in like 3 pages, which is what i have been referring as awkward earlier.

Can you clarify if that is the case, or if you have changed your mind about it?

[Farkran]

So, the group is Me, Enter, Venmar and I think Farkran volunteered?
That would leave two more slots to volunteer, and the vig still needs to claim when they show up.

Yes, count me in

[Farkran]

UNVOTE:

[Farkran]

no-lynch becomes more likely over time, for the record. as we lynch more and more town, the mimes will have a larger % of the votes, and will have less and less incentive to vote on town lynches. once its 5v3 and 4v3, the town have to be unanimous amongst each other to get a lynch through, which can be crippled if even one of the mimes makes into a "town circle", otherwise mimes can just immobilize the vote without an all-town consensus to out-vote them.

also there's no reason why everyone shouldn't have a read on me and enter by now.

As long as town has majority (= always, because otherwise the mimes are endgamed and lose), it would be very stupid not to compromise on a lynch, especially in this particular game where it literally goes against your wincon. I don't think it's a concern we should have, as long as we pick a compromise early enough to avoid lurking/VLA shenanigans. Like, the counterpart of lolhammering in this game would be lol-lurking the deadline, and everyone who does will get stomped

[Farkran]

do you think post #65 is me showing a townie/neutral inclination towards enter? if yes, why? also, up until now me and enter have mostly just disagreed/argued in how we're reading you.

i don't actually have a strong scumread on enter, i think he could easily be a townie with just a different interpretation of the game then me. any and all scummy inclination that i have on him would be based on his decision to focus on defending you and choosing to argue my read on you, which i could see as a mime trying to look good by defending town by supposedly "exploiting" in his eyes what was my twisted read on you.

i don't mind admitting though that i had scum leans on both you and enter by page 2. i form quick reads based on gut and first impression, i like seeing how people react to them, and then i sort from there. read that as you want.

Yeah i mean that's my point - you were -take my words with a grain of salt- scumleaning me for being lamisty and scumleaning him for defending me. That's the awkward part.

I'm still adjusting my playstyle to this game but i think i read that exchange as TvT or, worst-case, TvS. I don't think Enter tries to pocket a player, who is admittedly at his first time in this setup, from a sentence that was mostly theorycraft. On the other hand, i also kinda think Venmar fits with a paranoid town profile.

[Farkran]

What's up with everyone defending me? It's not like i did anything super-townie so far. I could see picking my side in a 1v1 with venmar but i'm not used to being townread this much so early in the game.

By the way @gyro @pyrrha @wolf so far you have only commented more or less ironically about the setup, do you have any opinion on what happened so far?

All the players who have not chimed in yet are welcome to speak up too

[Farkran]

@ Mod

Do the Mimes know each/have Daytalk?

This is actually a fair question though. The Mime RolePM quoted in the setup doesn't say they do. In standard games, the pm usually says "you are mafia goon with <player> and <player>, your PT is <here>, you have daytalk".

[Farkran]

What's up with everyone defending me? It's not like i did anything super-townie so far. I could see picking my side in a 1v1 with venmar but i'm not used to being townread this much so early in the game.

By the way @gyro @pyrrha @wolf so far you have only commented more or less ironically about the setup, do you have any opinion on what happened so far?

All the players who have not chimed in yet are welcome to speak up too

I did give an opinion. I said I didn’t think Enter’s read on you was horrible but I didn’t see how you were obvtown yet?

What else do you expect to be commenting on?

How do you see Venmar vs Enter?

Also what do you think of Rauth and his strategy? What's the optimal way to play this game in your opinion?

[Farkran]

I don't think anyone is anywhere near obvtown, FTR

Oh?

I guess you aren't obvtown, just conftown

[Farkran]

i really hope we dont play this game like a pseudo mountainous

How do you suggest we play this?

[Farkran]

I am mime

So... are you volunteering to survive until endgame? I mean that's what i read behind a mime claim right now

[Farkran]

From what i get from the latest posts, i think that Enter is committed to stay alive until endgame, and i'm going to respect that. He is either a very active and provocative town - albeit somewhat over the top with his plays - and we may need to keep people on their toes, or a real mime doing it for the towncred. I lean towards town, but in either case i'm happy having him here until later.

Venmar, i still think that the exchange involving me, him and enter was a bit awkward from his side. Again, this is too little content to have a clear read, but i wouldn't place him among my highest townreads for today. If i want to follow a strategy where the most obvtown players are left for pre-lywin, i could consider lynching here today because he doesn't look too scummy either. If i want to aim to the best chance of hitting town though, i would look elsewhere.

Hectic. Posted little, but from my extremely limited experience with him i think he does this type of introduction as town. Not sure if he also does it as scum.

Gamma seems a bit warmheaded but i liked his introduction, since i had similar thoughts about venmar. I'd say less drastically alignment involving thoughts, but i guess that's how gamma would express them.

I am not a huge fan of Pyrrha's content/posts ratio. He seems like coasting the gamestate. Not willing to lynch here today.

I really liked Rauth's introduction, regardless of whether his strategy is going to be efficient or not. Currently my highest townread.

DDL is completely null to me, no experience with him.

Map Wolf and Gyro's posts look like we're still in some kind of RVS carefree gamestate, but we're not - i expect more from those slots.


I guess this sounds like a readlist full of null reads... and that's because it is. Not being able to rely on votes and wagons make it a bit harder to look at scum intent and associative potential. Once everyone has chimed in (looking at you, @Pine @Creature), i think we should start defining our strategy and making compromises - days are short, and no-lynch is bad.

[Farkran]

From what i get from the latest posts, i think that Enter is committed to stay alive until endgame, and i'm going to respect that. He is either a very active and provocative town - albeit somewhat over the top with his plays - and we may need to keep people on their toes, or a real mime doing it for the towncred. I lean towards town, but in either case i'm happy having him here until later.

Venmar, i still think that the exchange involving me, him and enter was a bit awkward from his side. Again, this is too little content to have a clear read, but i wouldn't place him among my highest townreads for today. If i want to follow a strategy where the most obvtown players are left for pre-lywin, i could consider lynching here today because he doesn't look too scummy either. If i want to aim to the best chance of hitting town though, i would look elsewhere.

Hectic. Posted little, but from my extremely limited experience with him i think he does this type of introduction as town. Not sure if he also does it as scum.

Gamma seems a bit warmheaded but i liked his introduction, since i had similar thoughts about venmar. I'd say less drastically alignment involving thoughts, but i guess that's how gamma would express them.

I am not a huge fan of Pyrrha's content/posts ratio. He seems like coasting the gamestate. Not willing to lynch here today.

I really liked Rauth's introduction, regardless of whether his strategy is going to be efficient or not. Currently my highest townread.

DDL is completely null to me, no experience with him.

Map Wolf and Gyro's posts look like we're still in some kind of RVS carefree gamestate, but we're not - i expect more from those slots.


I guess this sounds like a readlist full of null reads... and that's because it is. Not being able to rely on votes and wagons make it a bit harder to look at scum intent and associative potential. Once everyone has chimed in (looking at you, @Pine @Creature), i think we should start defining our strategy and making compromises - days are short, and no-lynch is bad.

This post look pretty good on a quick skim
But I need to ask, what’s “warm headed”?

It means i see you as slightly impulsive, very direct with your words, with a tendency to let emotion guide your votes and gameplay. Warm, instead of hot, because it's not such a strong acceptation. I take notes like this to draw a profile of the players - the profile itself is NAI, but when a player deviates from his profile it's usually a tell for associatives or TMI.

[Farkran]

VOTE: Venmar

I actually don't care what his alignment is, I think everyone else in this game I either know or has been relatively agreeable so far, and I find I usually only have difficulties with one or two players a game anyways, so I'm gonna push this for a bit until we work things out or he gets lynched. I think the odds are in our favor that he's town and if he's a mime then we can afford to take one hit. It should become pretty obvious who his buddies are anyways if he's a mime, but I kinda doubt it and I really don't care long run. We're gonna win this game anyways, so. *shrug*

I think you should always lynch your strongest tr, especially on D1.

Not entirely sure about this, in this particular game. In a standard mafia game i would be ok with always lynching my strongest SR, but here i'd rather take a risk earlier in order to save my hard townbloc for later.

[Farkran]

How am I “coasting”? What do you mean about Gamma being “warmheaded”? How is Venmar, “awkward” exactly? Eh, Rauth looks like he’s trying to solve but the jury’s out on him, until he actually makes some reads. Mech talk isn’t AI.

My first impression of you is that you wanted to look active but didn't want to commit yourself to produce reads/advance the gamestate. You just improved my impression with this recent streak of analysis/questioning and you should keep it up.

I already explained my opinion of gamma, and i think i also explained how i found venmar awkward during his exchange with me and enter. He too improved recently.

Rauth, i don't see his posts as coming from scum. I'm expecting him to explain his strategy and i'll see if it makes sense, but that will only determine if i am inclined to listen to him or not - i still think he's town. Even if he is wrong, it was a huge reaction test to all players and i don't think scum comes up with that.

[Farkran]

I feel like a winning strategy would be for Vig (Wake) to just choose someone who we randomlynch.

Honestly, no.

I'm fine sheeping Wake, but i'm against choosing at random.

[Farkran]

I feel like a winning strategy would be for Vig (Wake) to just choose someone who we randomlynch.

Why random?

Okay it doesn't have to be random. It could also be whoever he'd believe is likely not mime. As long as the probability of mime is lower than random.

Yeah this is better, nvm my last post then

[Farkran]

I feel like a winning strategy would be for Vig (Wake) to just choose someone who we randomlynch.

Honestly, no.

I'm fine sheeping Wake, but i'm against choosing at random.

Sounds like something a Mime would say.

Why? Do you think you have less than random chances to read people correctly?

[Farkran]

So Town wants to get lynched and Mimes want to get lynched.

We don't know if the Mimes know each other and/or if they have Daytalk (again I may have missed this).

If a Mime wants to be lynched/killed wouldn't they just act Scummy? Or would that be anticipated by Town?

As Town I don't know how to play this version of Mafia.

By the way yes, there was a mod post that explains that mimes know each other and have day chat, like in a regular game of mafia. You can ISO the mod to find it quickly.

Also i would think that we do not lynch scummy behavior in this game - if anything, we mechanically leave our highest scumreads to endgame.

[Farkran]

So, the group is Me, Enter, Venmar and I think Farkran volunteered?
That would leave two more slots to volunteer, and the vig still needs to claim when they show up.

Very interested in this plan of yours, Rau.
I nominate myself as champion.

@Rauth you have a full team by my calculations

[Farkran]

Like only if the plan is good

This is true for everyone in the team. I'm very curious about the plan, because it looks similar to how i would play this game but there may be inherent flaws in the choice of survivors, so... yeah i'd like to hear what Rauth thought

[Farkran]

I didn't notice Hectic volunteering. The group is me, Enter, Venmar, Farkran, Hectic, and DrDolittle. There are now four possibilities. Either 0, 1, 2, or 3 mimes are in the group that volunteered. The game is now divided into three groups, the vig, the group that volunteered, and everyone else.

What's going to happen next, is we're going to ignore what I said earlier about not lynching in that group. The vig is going to shoot someone. Anyone except themselves. And as long as there aren't 2 mimes in that group then town wins.

If the vig shoots town, then the lynch will be in the group the vig shot in. If the vig shoots a mime, then the lynch will be in the group the vig didn't shoot.
On every future day, if the previous day's lynch was on town then you'll lynch in the same group that player was in. If the previous day's lynch was on a mime then you'll lynch in the other group.
Once there are the same number of town and mimes, not including the vig, lynch the vig, and get a town victory.

Looks solid. It's not 100% failproof, but it looks like we have more chances to win than we have to lose.

If i can throw in my suggestion for today's vigshoot, i'd kill in {rauth, gamma} as they are my two highest townreads in the two groups (not including myself - i'm not opposed to die, but i'll let others decide if i am worthy for the sacrifice ).

[Farkran]

Yeah i have read his ISO again and i think rauth deserves to be the first lynch. He earned it.

VOTE: rauth

[Farkran]

I think rauth was at L-2 though.

Not that it changes anything, both town and mimes have the same advantage to quickly selfhammer because, knowing their own alignment, they are never wrong in doing so. It's not the same as quickhammering in a standard mafia game, where you can't be sure of the alignment of your target.

Both town and mimes also have an interest in NOT selfhammering to gain towncred, as long as it isn't the last mime alive or the last town in lywin.

[Farkran]

I did not count the earlier venmar vote, he was at L-1.

[Farkran]

2 days to deadline.

I'm fairly sure vig shoot does not reset the nolynch counter because the mod said it doesn't end the day

[Farkran]

VOTE: /vote venmar

I am a bit wary of this vote. Gyro, why weren't you willing to vote rauth but now you jumped on venmar with a blank vote? Is it just because you weren't around when the rauth wagon was developing, or is there any other reason?

[Farkran]

Taking notes in case i die today as it's late in my timezone and i might not survive the night

Aside from rauth who is my highest tr, i think you can safely lynch enter and DDL in my group; creature and probably gamma (needs to be prodded a bit though) in the other. I'm a bit wary of the gyro/venmar duo, i would leave those for later. Hectic has been a bit quick on sheeping, but i think he's also safe from his introduction.

All in all the volunteer group looks cleaner than the other, the only name i'd be a bit afraid of is venmar because of weird interactions with me/enter and now gyro. It's still a weak read though. 0-1 mime in this group is likely.

Outside those names, i would probably avoid Pine (i've seen him lurking the early days as scum in my past games) and pyrrha (content/posts ratio is not satisfying, she seems committed to look active but does not look like solving, i.e. if you read her iso she's mostly answering cosmetic questions). Map wolf is my nullest read, i'd leave him for later and let him post more - prod him to produce more reads and content before the kill.

As a rule of thumb, i suggest not quicklynching anyone who has not produced enough content.

[Farkran]

VC 1.2

Rautherdir: Venmar, Map Wolf, Farkran, Creature, DrDolittle
Venmar: Enter, Hectic

Deadline: (expired on 2019-12-11 16:10:35)

Rautherdir,

Vanilla Townie

, has been lynched!

Day 2 deadline: (expired on 2019-12-14 23:07:43)

Sorry, am i missing something? I am sure the VC is incorrect, but aside from that wasn't rauth at L-1 with the vote from Enter?

[Farkran]

Well, the mod flipped rauth anyways, so ok.

I think we can afford to lynch again in the "not obvtown area" but if we have to flip someone i'd rather him produce a readlist first. We should not allow blank flips, in case they flip mime we need some content to look at - even if it's fake, scum always have to make up bullshit reads and maintain a decent progression which is often not easy and a slip may happen

[Farkran]

So far hectic has only talked about me and venmar iirc. I'm not opposed to lynch hectic as i townlean him, but i'd rather have him talk more first. Can you produce a readlist?

[Farkran]

I'm starting to think all these "i want X alive longer" actually mean "i don't want to lynch there because i know he's town, let's pick a different target until i can find some solid reason to scumread the consensus lynch".

There are several samples of this specific mindset coming from Enter, Pyrrha, Map Wolf and Hectic. Among those, i'm mostly suspicious of Pyrrha and Map Wolf - there's no real reason to wait on Hectic now that he produced reads (which i mostly agree with), and i don't like talking about myself but i also produced a lot of content, although my reads have't been confirmed in any possible way. I mean, there's no reason to say i am better than anyone else, nor Hectic, until our reads flip and we're proven right or wrong. I feel like wanting to stall townread lynches is becoming a mime trend to lead lynches on mimes.

I mean, if we are to follow rauth strat, we need to lynch in {Enter, Hectic, Farkran, DDL, Venmar}. Out of these i'm townreading Enter and Hectic the most, and now that Hectic produced reads i have no reserves in giving him the peace he deserves.

VOTE: Hectic

RIP

[Farkran]

Why is wanting to keep around a consensus tr longer bad, if they’re helping advance the gamestate?

Because there's no reason to believe they have better reads than anyone else until their they or their reads flip. Once they provide content and they flip town, i'm more than happy to deadsheep their reads.

Moreover, i want to consolidate the towniness of the volunteer group, as i think it has better town equity than the other and i'd rather not be forced to switch for lynching a dubious read.

[Farkran]

I'm starting to think all these "i want X alive longer" actually mean "i don't want to lynch there because i know he's town, let's pick a different target until i can find some solid reason to scumread the consensus lynch".

There are several samples of this specific mindset coming from Enter, Pyrrha, Map Wolf and Hectic. Among those, i'm mostly suspicious of Pyrrha and Map Wolf - there's no real reason to wait on Hectic now that he produced reads (which i mostly agree with), and i don't like talking about myself but i also produced a lot of content, although my reads have't been confirmed in any possible way. I mean, there's no reason to say i am better than anyone else, nor Hectic, until our reads flip and we're proven right or wrong. I feel like wanting to stall townread lynches is becoming a mime trend to lead lynches on mimes.

I mean, if we are to follow rauth strat, we need to lynch in {Enter, Hectic, Farkran, DDL, Venmar}. Out of these i'm townreading Enter and Hectic the most, and now that Hectic produced reads i have no reserves in giving him the peace he deserves.

VOTE: Hectic

RIP

Rest in peace, me. I'm on L-1 now I believe. This might be the one time I'll ever self-hammer, since it's actually a good play for my alignment.

I approve

[Farkran]

Meh, if Hectic flips town, just lynch:

DrDolittle
Gamma Emerald
Enter
me

then good luck finding the next town

Pine, Phyrra and Gyro seem most likely the mime team

I kinda agree with this analysis, but what sets apart the group in the first quote from the group remaining once you remove the second quote?

...i guess that wording could be misleading, so let me rephrase: what sets apart {DDL, Gamma, Enter, Creature} from {Farkran, Map Wolf, Venmar}? How did you form a mime team before seeing Hectic flip?

I mean, while this looks correct, it also looks 1. prematurely formed as if TMI; 2. Superficial, as if the poster wanted to mix names as he sees fit rather than solving.

I was mostly townleaning Creature due to his reads being similar to mine but i may want to reconsider this. @Enter what do you think of Creature?

[Farkran]

Enter vs Venmar has been characterizing the gamestate ever since the start. I don't think it's AI for either, although i do think Enter is individually townier than Venmar. Aside from that though, i think i can safely disalign Enter and Venmar so they're never SvS. Hectic flip may help determine if TvT is more likely than TvS or viceversa

[Farkran]

{Farkran, Map Wolf, Venmar}

I don't feel strong enough on them being town yet

So, what makes you feel strong enough on the others?

[Farkran]

By the way i don't think votes or unvotes cast after Hectic was hammered count. We're still technically in d2, until the mod gets back. I'm waiting for GIF to wrap up the day and flip Hectic before going forward with the reads.

[Farkran]

Meh, if Hectic flips town, just lynch:

DrDolittle
Gamma Emerald
Enter
me

then good luck finding the next town

Pine, Phyrra and Gyro seem most likely the mime team

If Venmar and Farkran both flip town, I think we just lynch the rest of my group (excluding me) and then lynch vig and then win

I think Venmar definitely flips town here. I read that replace out as super townie, so I think he’s a safer choice than Farkran.

VOTE: Venmar

Whatever

VOTE: Venmar

Even if the votes don't count though, this looks like a bad execution of distancing from Pyrrha if you're sheeping her immediately on a player you're not townreading, with only one (probably irrelevant, but still) vote on Venmar. I really don't like the Creature/Pyrrha interactions, and Venmar could be a mime in the volunteers group if i am correct.

I'd like Enter and DDL give their opinion on this exchange if hectic flips town.

Last but not least, @Creature you haven't answered my question in post 531.

[Farkran]

Didn't have a chance to participate lol

Goodbye gobble, i didn't think you were town at this point, but if you were i was wrong

[Farkran]

@mod i think gobble has been hammered and needs flip. Sorry if you had already noticed.

[Farkran]

People left in the volunteers group: {Enter, Farkran, DDL}

People left in the non-volunteers group: {Creature, Pine, Gamma, Pyrrha, Map Wolf, chkflip}

As creature said, we're at LYLO-3 assuming no mime lynch. If we keep following Rauth strategy we can only lose if 2 out of {Enter, Farkran, DDL} are mimes. How likely is that? I honestly think 0-1 mimes in this group is still my best bet. Venmar flipping town was a bit of a blow to my reads since he has been voted by both Creature and Pyrrha - i'm wondering what is scum doing at this point, but the only tentatives to derail the rauth strategy (they need to, if the volunteers group is clean or 1-mime) have come from Creature, so he's still probably my highest scumread, followed by Pyrrha.

If i had to choose between Enter and DDL for a town lynch, i'd pick Enter first. DDL hasn't voted anyone besides rauth and me, and he didn't participate in the two subsequent town lynches. I would still lynch there, but not before Enter. I mean, if Enter is really a mime he's pretty much throwing, unless there's some heavy wifom involved, but...

VOTE: Enter

If this goes through and flips town, it's a guaranteed win.

[Farkran]

Meh, if Hectic flips town, just lynch:

DrDolittle
Gamma Emerald
Enter
me

then good luck finding the next town

Why did you post this if you willing to follow rauth strategy?

[Farkran]

ISO rauth, it's a short read

[Farkran]

Wait most of group 2 has been lynched homie.

How have you at all followed the plan?

Vig didn't shoot yet, but aside from that we've been following the plan. So far we have only lynched in the volunteers group, and everyone flipped town so we continue lynching there

[Farkran]

I'm not down for an Enter lynch after an ISO of that slot. Gut says nah fam.

Pedit: Thank you. I got the gist of that from my dive into you.

So it's (Wake), (Rauth, Enter, Venmar, Farkran, Hectic, DrD), (Everyone Else). Minus a flip or two or a replacement or two because I imagine post 224 was several phases ago and I'm not looking back to see who died or replaced since then.

Righteous.

What pinged you the wrong way about Enter ISO though? And what's scum doing in your opinion? Who would you lynch now to win as town?

Pedit: yeah

[Farkran]

VOTE: Varkran

I'm good going this way.

This vote worries me. chkflip {Gyro} didn't vote on the last vote. And on vote 2, {Gamma Emerald, DrDolittle} both voted Farkran. I think there's a real risk that Farkran is thus mime.

VOTE: Creature

I was kinda wary of the Gyro slot too, but this post is a very bad push against me, while at the same time it is another attempt to disrupt rauth's strategy by voting Creature, who is outside the volunteers group. If you were suspecting me and DDL, you would have voted Enter, not Creature.

I was asking myself what the scum was doing, and here's the answer - this gives me confidence that there is no more than 1 mime in the volunteers group, and it's definitely not Enter. My vote stands, and at this point we pretty much mechanically won the game.

[Farkran]

VOTE: Varkran

I'm good going this way.

This vote worries me. chkflip {Gyro} didn't vote on the last vote. And on vote 2, {Gamma Emerald, DrDolittle} both voted Farkran. I think there's a real risk that Farkran is thus mime.

VOTE: Creature

Why Creature though over Enter? How is he your strongest tr rn?

Have i been wrong on you, pyrrha? You mean what you did with creature several pages ago wasn't distancing?

[Farkran]

I think Enter is hammered.

[Farkran]

Or is it L-1?

[Farkran]

Waiting for enter flip too. I also think he is town.

@gamma, i read you as town until a couple lynches ago - recently you have been less contributing and missing the latest town wagons, so i'm reconsidering your slot a bit in favor of chkflip and perhaps pyrrha, who had good aim so far (again, assuming enter is town).

I must say i'm not approaching this game as i would do for a standard mafia game - after all, we're not interested in learning the exact composition of the scum team as much as we need to figure out a couple more town players. Contrary to a standard game, we need good aim against town rather than scum, so that's where i have been focusing my attention recently, at least until someone flips mime.

If enter flips mime (unlikely), i'm voting chkflip next - i reconsidered his slot after he replaced in and i will need to re-evaluate people on the enter wagon. In this scenario i will very likely consolidate my scumread of pyrrha and creature, and adding map wolf to that list.

If enter flips town, i'll stick to the plan and vote DDL while scratching my head about what scum has been doing this game. I may guess that the scum team is composed mostly by lurkers in this scenario, so {pine, gamma, ???} is a more plausible solve, but it also depends on how DDL wagon develops and how he flips.

[Farkran]

Enter,

Vanilla Townie

, was lynched Day 4.

Day 5 deadline: (expired on 2019-12-21 14:56:24)

As expected

VOTE: DDL

[Farkran]

DDL is hammered, waiting for his flip. If he is town, {Pine, gamma, map wolf} is my solve. The vote from map wolf actually came AFTER ddl was hammered by chkflip. Only 5 votes required to lynch since we are 9 players, and map wolf was 6th.

[Farkran]

Yep, gg. This setup was a bit townsided to start with, but rauth strategy was actually very well thought and laid out. If i were a mime i probably wouldn't volunteer either, given the premise of not being lynched ever. The lack of a factional kill, and having a town wincon that makes it unnecessary to actually scumhunt are hard to overcome i guess. Still, it feels good to win two games in a row on the same day

Who was scum by the way? At some point i thought creature was trying to derail rauth strategy, and so did map wolf - but both are voting me right now so... was my most recent read close to the actual solve? Gamma, Pine and... pyrrha, i guess?

[Farkran]

Yep, gg. This setup was a bit townsided to start with, but rauth strategy was actually very well thought and laid out. If i were a mime i probably wouldn't volunteer either, given the premise of not being lynched ever. The lack of a factional kill, and having a town wincon that makes it unnecessary to actually scumhunt are hard to overcome i guess. Still, it feels good to win two games in a row on the same day

Who was scum by the way? At some point i thought creature was trying to derail rauth strategy, and so did map wolf - but both are voting me right now so... was my most recent read close to the actual solve? Gamma, Pine and... pyrrha, i guess?

I’m not really liking how you keep flipflopping on me. First you think I’m scum, then town, now scum again? Like why? Why are you being so waffley on my slot?

Not willing to concede? I can respect that, but you have been PoEd hard. If creature, map wolf and chk aren't town they are literally throwing now. No chance.

[Farkran]

It's simple math, really. None of the three people voting me can be scum, otherwise they're throwing the game.

Scum knows exactly who is town, and they also know that when i flip it's a town win, because wake is conftown and will br instantly killed.

We are 8 people now, once i flip it makes 7, once wakes die it makes 6: 3 mimes and 3 town. Mimes are endgamed and they lose. Therefore, no scum can willingly vote me right now, otherwise he's literally gamethrowing.

You are just hardpoed, is all. Rauth broke this game, lol

[Farkran]

Right, so I’m suicidal scum who’s been literally gamethrowing then. Yeah, makes total sense.

Nothing else does, so... yes. By the way, do the math by yourself and you will realize i am correct.

It's 2 am here, i need to get some sleep, i hoped i could stay on until my flip for celebration but wake isn't here

[Farkran]

I'm still here.

Let me know if/when you still need someone shot.

We isolated the scumteam, if you read the last page we can end their torment and proceed to celebrate

[Farkran]

Vote from wake is required because we can't have majority otherwise

[Farkran]

VOTE: Wake88

I need to selfvote to be lynched first. I actually don't know why i didn't do it earlier lol, for some reason i thought i could only hammer because everyone else did it

VOTE: farkran

[Farkran]

I mean i don't think map wolf is scum and changed his vote immediately after wake votes me? Does it make any sense...? I could see it as a desperate move to have wake shoot at one of the three people outside the wagon, at least 2 of which must be scum - but we wouldn't know who - so he gains a chance to misvig there?

It's ... dumb, because once one of those 3 comes back online he can vote me, unless pine is the last town but even then, wake could just shot me i guess. It doesn't make any sense.

[Farkran]

It's likely that he just miscalculated ... don't make me enter the paranoia tunnel lol

[Farkran]

Eh, i guess. How do you know he has shown up though? I checked his recent posts and the one in this game is his last one. Last Visit reports 12:54pm but i think there's some timezone bias there. Do you have him as a friend on the forums?

[Farkran]

I'm still here.

Let me know if/when you still need someone shot.

We isolated the scumteam, if you read the last page we can end their torment and proceed to celebrate

I’m never voting you without a NON-mechanical reason for you sr me.

You... really don't get how math works, do you?

Besides, now you're just looking desperate, so.. yeah, here's your non-mechanical reason. Sorry, i mean no offense, but you are >95% scum in this game. You're welcome if you're willing to vote me and concede, though. I won't complain

I'm just waiting for map wolf, gamma or pine to get back here. Likely mapwolf > pine > gamma in that order.

[Farkran]

Eh, it happens. I too have shut down my brain after i realized we were in autowin mode.

By the way, gg town! Perfect victory! Sorry scum, i admit this game was hard for you. See you next time, it's been fun playing with you all!

[Farkran]

Oh my god this game

We literally thought we were fucked up 3 pages into d1 after rauth laid out his strategy. Then i get lynched last in the volunteers group

for being townread too much

, and... vig shoots mime then town quicklynches the last mime

Sounds good

Lol sorry i had to celebrate and brag about it. Also my 100% winrate is still intact after 5 games + 1 rep-in, this account is blessed

Thank you pyrrha and gamma, had plenty of fun in the mime PT.

[Farkran]

I have to agree with creature on this, but from my understanding GIF had limited access during the whole game (due to a desktop fault or something) so he couldn't provide top quality modding

[Farkran]

I really wish I hadn't been lynched when I did. I had my doubts about Buki but I didn't want to try and play a game I wasn't alive for, but oh well.

Aw, why did you doubt me? I mean, were you townreading me less than someone in the non-volunteers group?