TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[ofrhz]

Hype!

VOTE: Jingle

[ofrhz]

im a magical girl

VOTE: mastina

Same, but I bet I'm cuter

[ofrhz]

I've already lost interest in this discussion about UT destroying anime

Why don't we all just vote Jingle instead?

[ofrhz]

I've already lost interest in this discussion about UT destroying anime

Why don't we all just vote Jingle instead?

no

Why not?

[ofrhz]

ofrhz I hope you know that both ofrhz and ofhrz are in my autocorrect and have been since ruby

Only misspelling my username in one way puts you above the average MS player

[ofrhz]

I've already lost interest in this discussion about UT destroying anime

Why don't we all just vote Jingle instead?

no

Why not?

clearly my scum buddy

Consider bussing

[ofrhz]

VOTE: jingle

Not entirely rvs

Why?

[ofrhz]

Jingle, you didn't ask Menalque the reason behind his vote. Why's that?

[ofrhz]

My vote on Jingle was rvs in case that wasn't clear

[ofrhz]

How would you know if you don't ask tho

[ofrhz]

How would I know if I asked?

No, I was asking why you weren't more curious why you were being serious voted

I don't think there's a way of knowing whether or not his vote on you matters in advance

[ofrhz]

ftr I didn't have a read on Jingle when I asked other people to join the wagon

[ofrhz]

I'm not very satisfied with that answer, but my gut is telling me to just drop the subject lol

pedit: I reread the post where hito voted me, and realized hito's issue with me was asking other people to join your wagon, not my original vote on you

[ofrhz]

Your vote is still on Jingle and this very isn't the defense you think it is

I don't have any scumreads, so there's no reason for me to move my vote atm

as in, pushing back against the sails of a Jingle voter, instead of hyping you up and pretending they totally agree with your secret reasons in the interests of RVS energy. I didn't like Bitmap's post because I don't like people trying to shut down half-baked RVS ideas, but I liked orfhz's much less because it's much worse when you shut down your own half-baked RVS idea.

I don't follow.

Asking someone to elaborate on their vote is hardly pushing back against the wagon. If Mena had legitimate reasons to scumread the slot, it could've fueled the wagon more.

[ofrhz]

ofrhz is prob town

Tell Krazy I said hi

[ofrhz]

Mena and jingle are like school bullies, who

bully bitmap because he has famous relative

. It feels like excuse to make a push rather then accurate one.

Are you talking about them asking for RC's reads in the bolded? Why is that scummy?

It makes sense to ask a known, strong player for their reads.

VOTE: Kerset

[ofrhz]

guilty of the very thing Bitmap was accusing hito of to a degree far

What accusation?

[ofrhz]

I think it's town indicative for Shadoweh that Krazy is reading this game. Last team game he played in, Krazy's partner was scum, and he didn't bother reading his partner's game.

[ofrhz]

Yeah but I thought you would have thought voting me would be dumb unless it was part of some scheme

Looking back, I'm not sure why jjh thinks Jingle's vote on him wasn't just random

I'm not really getting reads from rereading this interaction though

[ofrhz]

back in my day nervously asking someone how serious their vote was before offering any comment was something disproportionately done by scum. But it's seemed kinda common in this thread so idk is this just what the kids do now? I need a meta report from someone

I don’t think this is AI

[ofrhz]

Anyways I did promise something resembling a reads list and since I'm home now I'll assemble that and post next. Hito's post is trashy imo btw o(^・x・^)o

What did you dislike about that post?

I’m townreading hito as of that post

[ofrhz]

ofhrz is provisionally town. I TR her but I seriously misread her the last time she played scum against me so I have reservations about locking her in early

Wait what game was this?

[ofrhz]

VOTE: ofrhz

I think I wanna go here right now

I didn’t like 134 trying to sort of push aside his previous interaction and his Kerset vote felt weak at best

How did my Kerset vote feel weak?

[ofrhz]

wait ofrhz you’re a she?

Yep

[ofrhz]

@chemist: I think his entrance was bad and read awkward

- I don’t understand why his instinct was to make an rvs post when responding to a post on pg 8. By that point, there was already enough discussion to get the ball rolling in a more serious way.

- Ive already said that I disagree with the shade in 220, but I’m also interested in why that post didn’t contain a vote for either mena or jingle.

Kerset is still my primary scumread, and I prefer that to the klick wagon

[ofrhz]

Can I interest anyone in a Kerset wagon?

[ofrhz]

sell me on it

I don’t have anything beyond 453

Which may not look like much on first glance, but he hasn’t done much either

[ofrhz]

Mena and jingle are like school bullies, who

bully bitmap because he has famous relative

. It feels like excuse to make a push rather then accurate one.

Are you talking about them asking for RC's reads in the bolded? Why is that scummy?

It makes sense to ask a known, strong player for their reads.

VOTE: Kerset

It makes sense to ask but you still can do this with bad intentions. It is a first step to discredit bitmap. Just look at mastina.
It is all about genuity, so i don't see any point you making here.

To clarify, you’re saying mena, jingle, and Mastina sounded disingenuous in their bitmap pushes? If so, where?

[ofrhz]

@kerset: I’m still not seeing how they were being disingenuous in those interactions or why you thought they had bad intentions in asking for reads

[ofrhz]

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

[ofrhz]

The fuck are people voting ofhrz for

The reason is on the same posts. I don't like this post.

yeah guys wtf????????

Why call out 454 as bad but not 456?

[ofrhz]

You ask for my full readlist but do you have any reads beside me? I don't recall you as tunnel type.

I don’t really think I’m tunneling; it’s not like I have you locked as scum or anything.

I am pushing you though because I think you’re the scummiest

——

Chemist, shadoweh, hito
Mastina, Menal, Klick, Alisae
Jingle, gamma, jjh, Bitmap
Kerset

[ofrhz]

????????????????????

Is this at me?

[ofrhz]

Yea Farkran gave some insight about bitmap, ofrhz and menalque

What were farkran’s thoughts?

[ofrhz]

I didn’t push bitmap

This was kind of my take away from your interactions too

So I was surprised that kerset had a different take

[ofrhz]

gets pretty undifferentiated from there, no super solid scum reads but Klick, Shadoweh, chemist all have stuff that seems a little off to me.

What did you think about the meta reads given on Chemist? The ones that essentially said this is chemist’s town game.

[ofrhz]

Ofrhz wagon still looks pretty good to me, especially considering Ofrhz's readslist

I don't think there's much progression from basically null on me and Jingle there

What? Why do I need to have a read on you and jingle specifically?

I know Jingle can play scum very well and project towniness, so I don’t scumread him despite his play coming across as surface level scummy. Looking at his ISO, I’m unable to really towncase him. I’m generally not interested in wagoning him day 1 though

Your vote on me is okay and I can see how it tracks with your progression in thread, but overall you’ve generally been underwhelming.

[ofrhz]

I mean I know I'm only being pushed because scum team is afraid of RC.

You mean jjh? I don’t really see that

[ofrhz]

Kerset, can you answer 512?

[ofrhz]

Alisae, does pops have a read on Kerset?

[ofrhz]

My strongest townreads are bitmap and klick, btw.

Why Bitmap?

[ofrhz]

I’d be willing to vote bitmap

I’m also thinking my hito townread was premature

[ofrhz]

RC's combined reluctance to be dragged into this game and then the specific pop ins he made are both likely town.

All in all, I'm not at all interested in a Bitmap lynch.

That’s actually a good point - I had forgotten about the klick townread

[ofrhz]

Wait was that tier was your null tier?

Yeah

[ofrhz]

VOTE: hito

I haven’t been vibing his pushes and the one on Klick seems especially nitpicky.

I’m also a little surprised to see that he still scumleans Chemist even though his two top townreads, Alisae and Mena, both said what was described in 312 isn’t scum indicative for chemist.

——

I’m not really convinced there is scum in {mastina, Bitmap}. I’ll take a closer look later, but on initial read, I’m not very convinced by mastina’s case. I still think she is town, mainly for the degree of conviction I see in her posts.

[ofrhz]

hito can be town

Why do you townread hito?

[ofrhz]

I like his position on mastina/bitmap too bc I think it's nuanced in a way that is likely to be town -- saying he'd most likely vote bitmap if he had to despite being able to see the way in which bitmap could be town reacting emotionally while still calling mastina town

fair - I liked this too because it was basically my take away from the spat

I don’t really think I’m interested in wagoning gamma right now though.

[ofrhz]

talk to me more about Kerset?

I didn’t like some of his content. For ex, I didn’t like him saying everyone pushing bitmap was bad; the logic seemed circular there. Things like 488 are just like unnecessary shade considering he isn’t even scumreading klick, and I did vote him as a counter to klick.

Also we were cross voting each other for a while, but I didn’t really feel like he was pushing me or making an effort to sort me beyond saying my push on him was bad

I agree with Alisae that he sounds good tonally though. I’ll take some time to look at his past scum games if he has any rn

[ofrhz]

WRT Kerset meta

This is his only scumgame on site:
viewtopic.php?t=81570&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

It’s actually really lackluster in terms of having zero fake scumhunting and forgetting to use his vote entirely. The tone is fine but a little less quippy than when he is town.

It’s possible he’s getting help here, but I think I’m actually going to table this scumread for now.

[ofrhz]

Mena, why are you strongly townreading me?

[ofrhz]

Kerset, can you talk about why you're townreading Bitmap?

[ofrhz]

Ugh I don’t know. I’ll take another look at this game tomorrow when I’m not sleep deprived, but I’m not really feeling this anymore

UNVOTE:

[ofrhz]

What's happenin fam

[ofrhz]

Legends of Hidden Speakeasy II

Also I have reads from NSG but it’s mixed in with RC since we were discussing about it in discord. I’ll paraphrase it later when I’m home from work.

Did you get the chance to do this?

[ofrhz]

grok = understand

[ofrhz]

Empathetic resonance

How poetic

[ofrhz]

*grumbles in annoying town random unvoters*
I've forgotten how much I hate games lasting so long that wagons die b/c people get bored of them.
Today was kind of hell at work so I'll actually post tomorrow.

I looked at a couple of his town games, and I get the sense that he has this picture of how one should play town and naturally suspects people who deviate from that. With that in mind, his early push on Chemist makes a little more sense to me.

The way he engaged with Klick and retracted from his scumread seems kinda towny too.

Not like super strong on this because his games are old, but yeah not really feeling it anymore

[ofrhz]

There's too many floaty generalisations people have made about how Bitmap plays or has played this game that simply aren't true.

What about generalisations, which where made about mastina?

Aren't you voting mastina?

[ofrhz]

Man I keep hoping NSG will call me town and I can spend the rest of this game prancing around like an IC

[ofrhz]

There's too many floaty generalisations people have made about how Bitmap plays or has played this game that simply aren't true.

What about generalisations, which where made about mastina?

Show me Alisae making a generalisation about Mastina that you think is inaccurate

Wait you didn't ask for my UwU photos? Ech
I don't know mastina as a player, so i can't tell whenever its generalizations are accurate or not. Still you pull things, which are one-sided and it makes me think that you wanted to pull this rather then throw this out of your awareness.
First things that i can quote, without rereading whole game.

Spoiler:

mastina, can you stop making funny jokes? My team is dying of laughter in the discord channels.

Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. You and your team are honestly a true inspiration of what it's like to not be pro-town in this game.

Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.

Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.

don't get into this fight with mastina
- its unproductive
- you're wasting your energy
- thread health goes down
- its extremely petty

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

Earlier I thought it was weird that u didn’t scumread me since u always do when we’re both town.
Now I’m absolutely 100% convinced
I don’t think u have a read on me at all
I think u just know I’m town because r scum
VOTE: mastina

In 1106, JJH said that people were giving vague generalizations to

townread

Bitmap and those were bad reasons to townread Bitmap for.

These Alisae quotes you quoted are reasons to

scumread

mastina. That analogy doesn't work, because the generalization is working in a different direction and besides jjh isn't scumreading mastina. Vague reasons to scumread mastina should probably only serve to reinforce jjh's read there. Basically, how do you expect jjh to have reconsidered his reads based on these quotes?

Also to clear the air real quick, do you like post 685 by Alisae or not? How does this post impact your own read on mastina?

I'm not sure if there are some internally inconsistent thoughts here or if there's some language barrier that I'm not getting through.

[ofrhz]

Why am I a scum lean, Reundo?

[ofrhz]

hi hello hey

tgif c:

[ofrhz]

Hi. I have actual messages from

NSG

.

She said that I've been completely mistreated this game and that is not fair for me. She believes Klick and ofrhz (there's you're town read from NSG, ofrhz) are both locktown and has weaker town reads on [Shadoweh, Jingle, Kerset]. Her scum pool is right now [Menalque, Chemise, Reundo, Alisae] and thinks out of all of them, Alisae is most likely scum.

She has more things to say but wanted to know if I was okay with paraphrasing her blocks of text and I said that's fine so expect some more NSG in this thread down the road.

prances with great intensity

[ofrhz]

I feel so demotivated to play this game. No one beside me put thoughts in to this. Everyone just make reads based on personal relations and sheep whoever they like. Relation between mastina and jjh is so obviously sinister. Still after 58 pages people are only looking at their personal targets and take no efforts to solve the background. I don't except players to solve this game by now or look away from me. I am rather sure penguin could post all players abilities right here and people would just scroll their eyes through it without reading. Then they would nod get back to their business, without any concern what those abilities were. This is the kind of commitment that people outside of scum agenda have.

Are you surprised by pops' not townreading you here?

[ofrhz]

I wanna talk to ofhrz but she’s seemingly never on at the same time as me

Oh the woes of living on the west coast

You can't talk to anyone in Europe, and you can't watch European soccer in real time without waking up at 8am on a Saturday. Life is rough.

I'll be around more this weekend tho!

[ofrhz]

like ?

[ofrhz]

I can make a bad post

Ready?

[ofrhz]

I don't watch anime

[ofrhz]

okay I really need to write catch up posts now

[ofrhz]

You know ofrhz said the same thing I did but in different words right

You can say this about any question that someone makes. You tired everything you could.

No, I actually did have the same interpretation as jjh.

I have this feeling you guys were just talking past each other in this conversation, but I'm not sure how to clarify things up.

But like, from largely a spectator's point of view (me), it wasn't very clear what reads you were expecting jjh to reconsider. So it makes sense to me that he didn't reconsider his reads in spite of you guys back-and-forthing for an hour.

[ofrhz]

Hi. I have actual messages from

NSG

.

She said that I've been completely mistreated this game and that is not fair for me. She believes Klick and ofrhz (there's you're town read from NSG, ofrhz) are both locktown and has weaker town reads on [Shadoweh, Jingle, Kerset]. Her scum pool is right now [Menalque, Chemise, Reundo, Alisae] and thinks out of all of them, Alisae is most likely scum.

She has more things to say but wanted to know if I was okay with paraphrasing her blocks of text and I said that's fine so expect some more NSG in this thread down the road.

I agree with Reundo and can see Alisae but not Menalque and Chemist. Can you elaborate?

I'm not sold on Jingle town, and I don't think 1619 really elucidated that read by much.

[ofrhz]

I'm cursed?

[ofrhz]

jjh, mastina, klick, chemist, mena
shadoweh
hito, kerset
jingle
alisae, bitmap
reundo

I'm only going to bother elaborating on reads that I think have changed. I can elaborate on others upon request.

jjh - He's definitely valid in saying posts like 1037 have just been ignored. I think he's done his due diligence on his Bitmap scumread by following up on reading Bitmap's past games and trying to engage people with content from that game. I also just generally like how he's been engaging otherwise.

kerset - I'm still leaning town here mostly based off of looking at his past scumgame and comparing it to his ISO here. I actually liked how he was trying to test if jjh would reconsider if his reads were wrong, even though the test kind of fell flat and the point didn't come across clearly. I did consider that he could be receiving some heavy handed coaching, but Kerset has such a unique writing style that I don't think anyone is ghostwriting his posts, and the real-time interactions with jjh made me doubt that even further.

alisae - eir reads seem to wildly fluctuate and I think I'm having a hard time getting past that. on the flip side, e sounds pretty different tonewise from the only (scum)game I've seen eim in; e seems like an entirely different person here. I've been meaning to read some of eir other games since I think it'd be illuminating to see what is just eir playstyle but haven't gotten to it yet.

bitmap - I've generally struggled with placing bitmap this entire game, which has caused a bit of a mental block. I have them low because I've generally been agreeing with jjh's pushes here. Recent NSG contributions have me doubting this read a little bit though.

reundo - I feel like if you replace in and drop a readslist without explanation like that, the expectation is that you will be around to talk to people about it? Also his scumreads are me and two people I feel pretty strongly are town.

VOTE: reundo

[ofrhz]

what did you read

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79971

I was playing with Enigma who was in that game

[ofrhz]

Yeah but he is voting...?

[ofrhz]

Yeah but he is voting...?

Ofhrz, didn't you make a point about how scum kerset forgets to even vote

Oh you’re saying you’d expect kerset to be voting you or something?

[ofrhz]

Is mastina scum or is jjh scum? Or are they both scum?

[ofrhz]

Maybe Kerset is scum after all

[ofrhz]

Hi to, I see your scum case and I’ll respond to it when I’m at a computer

[ofrhz]

So I think there are a couple of things in hito’s post 1693

1. Cohesion tell in 1720

I think this is where you’re expecting me to townread Alisae or at least not scumread Alisae because 1) they’re voting reundo and even rejuvenated that wagon and 2) they’ve also arrived at town!mastina and co.

i listed these reads based on who scumpinged me. I do think that reundo and Alisae are unlikely to be scum together based on how e jump started that wagon. However, both of us scumreading reundo isn’t enough for me to townread Alisae alone if that makes sense. one benefit of this is if Reundo were to flip town, I would at least remember who else i thought was worth looking into

I think your cohesion tell works somewhat in the sense that if someone were to convince me of a certain read, then I’m also going to townread that person who convinced me in the first place. At some point, I was townreading Mastina and didn’t particularly have a read on bitmap. And then I started to townread jjh in part because of their arguments pushing scum!bitmap, which is basically the gist of how I arrived at those reads. but like, Alisae wasn’t part of how my reads developed around that game state, and furthermore, e arrived at the same reads as me in a different manner, so it’s not like there was mindmeld or something

Speaking generally, I also don’t particularly think it’s a good idea to townread someone simply because they have the same views as you. scum may feel like they need to bus and participate in the echo chamber to inject themselves in the town block. at best, it’s a “save this Alisae read for later” when we have some flips, which is incidentally kind of where I’m at right now.

2. My townreads scumreading Kerset

Kerset probably has been the person I’ve talked to/about the most by far, and that’s basically because I’ve been trying to get a stronger read there all game. I feel like the argument i made (“Kerset’s scumgame was weaker compared to this”) didn’t convince anyone else, yet couldn’t shake off this feeling that he still might be town. But I’m not really the kind of person to hard defend people who I’m like not even sure are town in the first place.

And without the meta, I would be scumreading him based on his play here alone. So it also makes sense a lot of sense to me why my townreads are all scumreading there

[ofrhz]

OK, I finished catching up. Reads:

{Bitmap, Klick} <- TOWN
{Jingle, Mena, Chemist} <- TOWN-LEAN
{hito, Alisae, Shadoweh, Kerset} <- NULL
{ofrhz, jjh} <- SCUM-LEAN
{mastina} <- SCUM

I spent way too long trying to write up an in-depth reads list and only got like halfway-through, then realized it was kind of pointless and a waste of time, which makes me sad. Will probably end up elaborating on these more later, but I'm way too tired as is.

VOTE: mastina

Reundo, why did you have me as a scum lean when you were writing this post?

[ofrhz]

While reading the game on catch-up, ofrhz never made a strong impression on me or did anything I thought was especially towny or couldn't come from scum

Ftr I think this is really scummy

This sounds like it should be a null read?

But Reundo had 4 null reads when making his reads list and had me as a scum lean. Like ???

[ofrhz]

Bitmap, Reundo is no longer at L-1 so I think I’ll keep my vote there for now. But what’s up?

[ofrhz]

Oof sorry Alisae

I think I should claim anyway since it’s very likely someone stopped the scum nk. I vigged Allisae last night

[ofrhz]

I thought you were town because NSG had two flipped scum in her PoE

Also I liked NSG’s scumread on Alisae

[ofrhz]

I withheld a message from RC cause he needed to do something for me. Here is his message:

He wants to let everyone know that he told nsg last night that ali was not scum so he can feel good.

I thought you were town because NSG had two flipped scum in her PoE

Also I liked NSG’s scumread on Alisae

Are you in our discord channel?

My team said that we were not getting lynched because NSG had two flipped scum in her PoE and I was told to prove it and I'm trying to dig up the posts but I couldn't find it.

Can you find my NSG posts for me so I can actually figure out what I'm doing?

Lol

Yes

[ofrhz]

Hi. I have actual messages from

NSG

.

She said that I've been completely mistreated this game and that is not fair for me. She believes Klick and ofrhz (there's you're town read from NSG, ofrhz) are both locktown and has weaker town reads on [Shadoweh, Jingle, Kerset]. Her scum pool is right now [Menalque, Chemise, Reundo, Alisae] and thinks out of all of them, Alisae is most likely scum.

She has more things to say but wanted to know if I was okay with paraphrasing her blocks of text and I said that's fine so expect some more NSG in this thread down the road.

This was NSG’s PoE

[ofrhz]

Novice 1-s vig

I shot alisae n2 and just chilled otherwise. Didn’t receive anything etc etc

[ofrhz]

We just need a PoE of three right

[ofrhz]

If all the pr claims are town, then the setup seems pretty townsided unless last scum is a fucking tank

But scum in the pr claims seems even less likely mainly bc I have no idea who it would be

Kerset and klick are town by claims. They can only be scum with chemist in which case the setup becomes too scumsided

Chemist has inno’d two people which doesn’t feel like what last scum would be doing here

Hito scum would mean scum either shot alisae which I refuse to believe or he decided to no kill for teh lulz which is also not what I’d expect from last scum either

[ofrhz]

JOATS and inventors, did you guys all have compulsory, night-specific actions?

Like n1 you *have* to use your watch, n2 you *have* to whatever

[ofrhz]

What’s kp? Kill power?

[ofrhz]

I guess I’m okay with that

But only if we all vote kerset on a new page to spook him next time he checks the thread

[ofrhz]

VOTE: Kerset

[ofrhz]

1 Shot Strongman
2 Shot Roleblocker
???

JOAT (FN/Commute/Visit)
JOAT (Track/Watch/Follow)
N2 Vig
2x Doc
Alien
Loyal Neighborizor
4x VT

If all PR claims are town, it'd actually be:

1 Shot Strongman
2 Shot Roleblocker
???

JOAT (FN/Commute/Visit)
JOAT (Track/Watch/Follow)
Novice 1s Vig (I could have picked any night after the first to shoot)
2x Doc
2x Alien
1s Loyal Neighborizor
Compulsive Inventor (BP/Loved/Hated)
3x VT

[ofrhz]

VT claims came after all PR claims and after alisae validated VT existence (locking them out of options to claim without overlapping).

That's not true btw, I claimed before Jingle/Klick/Bitmap. Jingle also claimed before Klick and Bitmap.

I would like to hear from ofrhz why she vigged Alisae in the first place? Ali did not seem like a suspicious slot after e pushed for the Renudo lynch so hard and looking through your iso you didn't seem to think Alisae was very scummy, so its a question that's been bothering me.

I thought about e’s push on reundo but two things made me think e was scum in spite of that:
- e jumped off reundo for the bitmap wagon
- and voted Reundo because e thought reundo was going to flip town which didn’t really make sense to me

The most important factor was probably because I felt strongly about the bitmap slot being town after the d2 flip and nsg was scumreading e for like the same reasons that had me put alisae low on my tier list to begin with.

[ofrhz]

I think jingle / me next two days

And then if the game isn’t over, then whoever is still alive can have fun figuring it out.

I don’t think Kerset is scum. His thoughts seem internally consistent even if it’s not what I would necessarily do in his situation. Something that Volpe noted a while back was that his day 1 play was strongly going against the tide in the thread in defending bitmap and pushing jjh / Mastina, and that’s pretty town indicative especially for a relatively new player. This is also a severe contrast with his scum play which was comparatively timid and direction less.

Shadoweh isn’t like omg so town but I vibe with her posts. Like there isn’t much else to say except that I’ve had similar thoughts with her

Hito could be scum playing 4d chess in shooting mastina while knowing she’s bulletproof or something, but like I feel like that’s a conversation to have only if jingle were to flip town

That begs the question of how does this setup balance. The setup is a townsided with all of these PRs, but perhaps not as much as I initially thought. Because everybody was x-shot, we’re basically just playing mountainous fun from here on out. There was also good potential for town roles to fuck with each other.

[ofrhz]

Kerset, to be clear, you were compulsive JOAT, yes?

[ofrhz]

wait nvm I can't read

[ofrhz]

compulsive JOAT is also like a nontrivial nerf to the JOAT role imo

[ofrhz]

What did you think about jjh/mastinas reads? I mean, whatever degree the flip made you feel better about Bitmap-town, surely you felt even more better about mastina town from D2, right?

You gotta pick who you sheep man

Me picking to sheep NSG over the other two isn’t a dig at jjh or mastina’s read accuracy - I think nsg’s reads are better than anyone else’s on site

and after all, I’m town so someone else being likely town isn’t a reason for me to value their reads more than my own unless I know they have a history of being noticeably better than average

I think mastina’s reads can be good, but her metrics for calibrating reads are certainly different from mine. I haven’t played with jjh town before

[ofrhz]

This just isn't true at all. I started Bitmap, jjh/Alisae/mastina came over because of me, and then Alisae re-defected back to reundo because menal argued eir back on it. Alisae was pretty strongly town from that interaction and would have been a real stretch as a mislynch, especially with mastina/myself still alive.

Though you raise a good point w/r/t my rolecop theory that I'm probably a more sensible kill for scum-masquerading-as-vig than Alisae if I got copped N1. So I should probably lower that prior downward.

I don’t really think alisae jumping back there makes e town. We knew scum bussed by end of d2

If it makes you feel better, I did think about vigging you for a hot second because of that last minute diversion wagon away from Reundo

But you had some interactions with mena that I didnt think were svs. and again, scum were bussing

[ofrhz]

What did you think about jjh/mastinas reads? I mean, whatever degree the flip made you feel better about Bitmap-town, surely you felt even more better about mastina town from D2, right?

You gotta pick who you sheep man

Me picking to sheep NSG over the other two isn’t a dig at jjh or mastina’s read accuracy - I think nsg’s reads are better than anyone else’s on site

and after all, I’m town so someone else being likely town isn’t a reason for me to value their reads more than my own unless I know they have a history of being noticeably better than average

I think mastina’s reads can be good, but her metrics for calibrating reads are certainly different from mine. I haven’t played with jjh town before

Also I think jjh/mastina were townreading mena as well as was I and jumped onto bitmap as opposed to Reundo end of day 1

[ofrhz]

Idk why I’m arguing this

I don’t think I should make it to 3p lylo because i don’t see how that can end well

[ofrhz]

VOTE: jingle

[ofrhz]

Eh ok we have time

UNVOTE:

[ofrhz]

Continuing: Klick is the only his confirmed town. Hito is weaker version of doc, a bit like buffed fruit vendor. Hated and loved are completely useless. Aside from ofrhz, he thinks that the two flipped scum were pretty powerful and that would justify high town power assuming the last scum was some ninja multitasking rolecop. Therefore it would be proper play lynching in the VTs (jingle > shadoweh) if ofrhz flips town. VT claims came after all PR claims and after alisae validated VT existence (locking them out of options to claim without overlapping). In general, he doesn't think chemist bus on menalque holds any water anyways. Menalque was dead the moment he claimed vig, burying him is only for towncred. There's that bit of TMI when he said ker commuted rather than accusing ker of being ascetic. It implies that he knew about kill immunity. Still 1shot vig as unconfirmable claim? Sounds ballsy enough to come from desperate scum in 1v1

To be clear, is Farkran’s POE the same as yours, kerset?

[ofrhz]

Continuing: Klick is the only his confirmed town. Hito is weaker version of doc, a bit like buffed fruit vendor. Hated and loved are completely useless. Aside from ofrhz, he thinks that the two flipped scum were pretty powerful and that would justify high town power assuming the last scum was some ninja multitasking rolecop. Therefore it would be proper play lynching in the VTs (jingle > shadoweh) if ofrhz flips town. VT claims came after all PR claims and after alisae validated VT existence (locking them out of options to claim without overlapping). In general, he doesn't think chemist bus on menalque holds any water anyways. Menalque was dead the moment he claimed vig, burying him is only for towncred. There's that bit of TMI when he said ker commuted rather than accusing ker of being ascetic. It implies that he knew about kill immunity. Still 1shot vig as unconfirmable claim? Sounds ballsy enough to come from desperate scum in 1v1

To be clear, is Farkran’s POE the same as yours, kerset?

Almost.

What is your poe?

[ofrhz]

Ofrhz has claim perfectly tailored for scum. Novice explains, why he couldn't shoot on n1. Lack of other bullets means that we can't challenge his claim. During this time we killed two scum players. With last scum left at this early stage the most likely scenario would be that solo tires to make some sort of gamble. There are no rewards for being defeated later on, so scum would only aim for win or lose. He confirmed that there are no vig kills on n1 and n2 so the odds for no vig were high enough to go for it. Perhaps he had shot of redirect to prevent CC, if he did then give me a cookie after this game.

No cookies for you

Why am I more likely scum who made a gamble compared to chem or Hito?

[ofrhz]

During n2 we knew that mastina is proven town but there was flipped strongman, so some kind of protection was extremely likely. That is kind logic that jingle would never come up with so the options are: double kill, jingle misplay or fake vig kill.
If we drop the idea scum power is redirect (which i don't insist on) and take pure rolecop (which explains mastinas death). N1 target is likely to be mastina. Mena obviously didn't know about masti role, which suggest that his partner was AFK at this time. This also points at ofrhz.

I had given this some thought as well, as in who would try to shoot mastina n2 when scum knew there were people who can block the scum kill?

But 1) jj had already flipped alien so that was already one PR with potential to screw with the NK gone

2) scum gambled on doc being 1 shot who activated n1 or otherwise unable to shoot n2 (by having odd night or some other modifier)

[ofrhz]

514, 591, 592, 765, 1040, 1227, 1682, 2115, 2322. If you look at ofr progression against bitmap you will see that he always had him low but never sr him. However he was fine with using his teammate reads just for sake of killing alisae (his former townlean). Aside of it bitmap remains as not worth defending.

Yes I felt strongly about Bitmap being town based off of the two scum flips and then looking back at a few of NSG’s posts from day 1. NSG really isn’t super hard to read, and even though she’s been away from the site for most of the past year, I’m more familiar with her play than I am with anyone else in this player list, hence why I felt a simple thing like her putting 2 scum in her PoE or even just paying more attention to this game more than the other team mafia ones made bitmap’s slot town. It’s also why she was able to townread me quickly

My read progression didn’t happen much in thread because from n1 to d4, the thread was open for a grand total of <36 hours lol

[ofrhz]

Probably should’ve read everything before bothering to post

[ofrhz]

Who /else/ is in your PoE

Like where would you look if I flip town

[ofrhz]

Busy today, will post tomorrow

[ofrhz]

I’m fine with me / jingle / Shadoweh

Will actually read and get to this tonight but I don’t want to be replaced

[ofrhz]

No, its not just poe, the jjh kill points to it,

Why?

and Alisae was a terrible "vig target"

flips table

[ofrhz]

I don't know if you remember this but you had a wagon D1 because of jjh?

oh, right

[ofrhz]

I've reread the first 20ish pages and Kerset, Jingle, and Shadoweh's ISOs, and out of the three, I'm still throwing my weight behind Kerset town.

It's occurred to me that maybe hito isn't absolutely locktown given that he could have reasonably shot Alisae thinking e wasn't a viable mislynch, but his ISO just has so many words, and I'm running out of time tonight.

I'm also effectively v/la for the next 3 weeks as my team enters a death march to launch our product, so seeing I'm in pretty much everyone's PoE pool except Jingle's, we can end the day on me after I get the chance to reread hito, and you guys can at least work with the fact that there was indeed a novice 1s vig

[ofrhz]

Sup jingle, are there reasons why I should be townreading you aside from Menalque claiming something dumb

[ofrhz]

alright that checks out

yeah I kinda just wanna lock hito town now

ofrhz, why did you shoot Ali? Was it just because they were being loud and wrong? (that's not an insult if you're reading ali)

I see this question but ngl I feel like I’ve answered it

Lmk if there’s something else you wanted me to address

[ofrhz]

Sup I’m here and I’m drunk so this is like THE BEST TIME
TO ASK ME QUESTIONS

[ofrhz]

I’m here for two more hours because ~west coast living ~