Newbie 1977 - Game Over

[Micc]

Votecount 1.07

Formerfish (3) -

Alexcellent, Yodavader, 72offsuit

dsjstr (1) -

mercutio

Alexcellent (1) -

Non Imh

Egix96 (1) -

NDMath

Not Voting (3) -

Egix96, Formerfish, dsjstr

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-11 20:30:00).

Prodding mercutio.

[72offsuit]

It's interesting that you mention that 72o has a weird way of posting because I was thinking that they basically just posted what me and Alex already said. I have to say that because they waited to say that I seemed town until after I outed seemed town. They didn't want to risk being seen as protecting mafia in case I was actually mafia and it would make them seem like we were together. I also don't think Yoda would be a good lynch right now.

UNVOTE:

The reason I didn't state that I thought you were town earlier was because at that stage you were at neutral for me. It was really only AFTER post 160 when you claimed tracker and it felt genuine PLUS post 176 which i felt was a very townie post, did I actually think that you were town.

[Formerfish]

Fish ISO:

p49: Feels a little scummy to me because it feels a bit forced, “I’m all blasé, whatevs lynch me, like I don’t care if im lynch, because im on town team and can win even if im dead”
(my paraphrasing of the vibe this post gives me)
Scummy vibe: -1

P84: I find it odd Fish responds to this question given I asked it of DSJ

P115: Votes for DSJ – at this time reasonable given I agree the DSJ post was a bit scummy, but not really a strong townie vibe given he is pretty desperate to get the wagon off him, but I guess given the scarcity of scumminess other than lurking to this stage of the game, was a reasonable place to put a vote.
Townie vibe: +1

P117: asks a good question about egix slot independently
Townie vibe: +1

P128: Discussing the votes on DSJ, I don’t like the rather nebulous phrase “other minor tells” as part of his reason to vote for DSJ. If you have tells you should elaborate esp if you are voting for a lynch and its not an RVS vote but an actually intent to have lynched vote.
Scummy vibe: -2




@Fish: Are you able to elaborate on these enigmatic “other minor tells”?




P133: “He was the 4th vote on your wagon, why focus there?”
I thought it was more than reasonable to focus on this 4th vote.
I would say Fish’s p133 unfairly paints DSJ with a bad brush / unreasonably criticising DSJ’s focus on yoda – the other 3 votes on the wagon were an RVS vote, 2 votes for the scummy dodging joking post by DSJ. If I were in DSJ’s slot I think I would’ve done the same.
Feels like scum pushing an agenda, something that fits a neat narrative, rather than looking for scumminess
Scummy vibe: -2

p156: Scummy as post - demanding for a claim by someone in NO position to ask for a claim.
1) Did NOT have hammering ability
2) Was the other wagon, so totally biased in the votes
3) Wagon included an RVS vote, and a lets wagon for the sake of wagoning vote, was not full of actual FoS voters
Scummy vibe: -3

P173: “PR CC should NOT claim” – say what? This is fishing at best, bad advice at worst. If there is a CC to this then we have a guaranteed mafia – if the lynch was going to proceed and everyone agreed DSJ was super scummy then yes CCing PR would stay quiet, but if the lynch of DSJ was NOT going to proceed, then yes CCing PR would have to CC
Scummy vibe: -2

P174: more role fishing
Scummy vibe: -1

P175: even more role fishing
Scummy vibe: -1

NAI posts: 14,16,31,48,86,88,91,94,109,111,129,135,137,139,157.

Summary: Scummy as. -10

None of that is role fishing. I am specifically trying to limit the damage that can be done if Jstr is scum and fake claiming.

If Jstr is scum then he would fake claim to try and draw out the real PRs so that scum can kill them over night. If town has a tracker and they CC they die tonight. If they don't CC here they can use their ability, possibly nail down the other scum and then out that they are the real tracker tomorrow with a result on someone.

What does everyone think is supposed to happen here? Only scum has more info than we do, so we need to push and prod to get info to make decisions. I pushed a wagon that I felt could be on scum. They claimed tracker, and now everyone is like oooo he pushed a wagon and it's a or he must be scum.

Why as scum would I push that hard this early? People that are town are playing right into scums hands by trying to eliminate me.

If you Muppets wanna mislynch then keep pushing me.

[Egix96]

I scumread all of 212/214/216.
VOTE: Egix96

Offsuit has a weird posting style.

.

First one: I hadn't yet seen that I wasn't supposed to explicitly say that, so my bad.
Second/third ones: I'm not really seeing what you're getting at here; you think that I'm scum for defending Former? I feel he's town now.

Also, what do you find weird about 72's posting style?

[dsjstr]

When you say they are playing into scum hands do you mean my hand? I completely agreed that a scum wouldn't be pushing early which is why I made the comment that you looked scum only because you targeted a PR. But if I was a mafia why would I claim a PR when it could get CC'd immediately. I basically killed myself tonight... I clearly am not the best at this game because I just started, I can't tell if you over/under estimating my ability. You basically forced me to put you at L-1. I really would have rather put pressure on someone who hasn't spoken much. If you still thought it was me why are you not voting me? FUCK you were 1 of 3 people I thought could be the other PR.

VOTE: FormerFish

L-1

but I do think people are just saying what looks good. What I mean by that is that Former looks bad because he made a PR reveal, and that people are going to agree with me because I outed as a PR.

[Formerfish]

When you say they are playing into scum hands do you mean my hand? I completely agreed that a scum wouldn't be pushing early which is why I made the comment that you looked scum only because you targeted a PR. But if I was a mafia why would I claim a PR when it could get CC'd immediately. I basically killed myself tonight... I clearly am not the best at this game because I just started, I can't tell if you over/under estimating my ability. You basically forced me to put you at L-1. I really would have rather put pressure on someone who hasn't spoken much. If you still thought it was me why are you not voting me? FUCK you were 1 of 3 people I thought could be the other PR.

VOTE: FormerFish

L-1

but I do think people are just saying what looks good. What I mean by that is that Former looks bad because he made a PR reveal, and that people are going to agree with me because I outed as a PR.

No, I've said your claim is to be believed until something happened to change that scenario, like a counter, which we'd examine if one came.

I was saying that town voting me is doing scums bidding because they know getting me out of the game early is better for them. The more time I get and the more interactions I have the tighter the town block I'm going to build. At least 1 scum is pushing me right now, I would say it was whoever started doing it second because they were embolden by the 1st personz who's probably town by the way.

I doubt the 3rs person is scum, probably just excited town.

I don't think that both scum would be pushing me right now because when I flip town, which they know I will, it would put a big target on the people pushing me for tomorrow's lynch.

[Formerfish]

Yoda's placeholder vote on me feels a little more suspect right now on second thought.

[Yodavader]

I feel that the second part of the statement "Let's get a claim out of you" is scummy only because it sounds like fishing to me.

I'm note sure how else he could've phrased it tbh.

I know. I guess I just felt like it was an unnecessary statement.

I don't play that often, is town meta now all about tricking people into claiming asap or something? Feels not very town motivated

I think that fakehammering people to trick them into outing their true role is something that's been being utilised a lot lately
I know that's not quite the same thing as what happened here but the core idea is the same

Normally, I would say that fakehammering and other deceitful moves are very scummy but I have seen a town player use underhanded moves as I stated before. I don't really like it but I guess it's a good way to see if scum slips up. In Big 4 Mafia, Day 2 (I think) had a town player fake an intent to hammer on an incoming replacement player to see what would happen. And then during Mylo, a town player fakehammered which actually helped scum win. Of course, in that game, I was the scum and literally 10 minutes away from selfhammering to help out my fellow scum when he came in and saved my ass.

When you say they are playing into scum hands do you mean my hand? I completely agreed that a scum wouldn't be pushing early which is why I made the comment that you looked scum only because you targeted a PR. But if I was a mafia why would I claim a PR when it could get CC'd immediately. I basically killed myself tonight... I clearly am not the best at this game because I just started, I can't tell if you over/under estimating my ability. You basically forced me to put you at L-1. I really would have rather put pressure on someone who hasn't spoken much. If you still thought it was me why are you not voting me? FUCK you were 1 of 3 people I thought could be the other PR.

VOTE: FormerFish

L-1

but I do think people are just saying what looks good. What I mean by that is that Former looks bad because he made a PR reveal, and that people are going to agree with me because I outed as a PR.

I don't see how he was targetting a PR. I didn't see any indication from you that you were a PR and I felt that Fish just got lucky. Unless you crumbed somewhere that I didn't catch.

Yoda's placeholder vote on me feels a little more suspect right now on second thought.

I am still suspect of Fish but since the day is still young and I would still like to hear from the lurkers, I will UNVOTE: . I guess doing a placeholder vote is a bad thing, so I will keep it to myself until I am ready.

[dsjstr]

First off why are you unvoting Fish when you were on me L-1 for some stuff that was involved with RVS?

[dsjstr]

On D1, I don't mind taking people to L-1 but if anyone hammers without acknowledging that they are going to hammer (lolhammers/quickhammers), I automatically scum read the hammerer. So for now, I'll play along.

VOTE: Fish

You were willing to do it before why not now?

[Yodavader]

First off why are you unvoting Fish when you were on me L-1 for some stuff that was involved with RVS?

On D1, I don't mind taking people to L-1 but if anyone hammers without acknowledging that they are going to hammer (lolhammers/quickhammers), I automatically scum read the hammerer. So for now, I'll play along.

VOTE: Fish

You were willing to do it before why not now?

We already have Fish's reaction to being put on L-1. Plus, I actually feel that he will get hammered before he needs to be or at least before we get reactions from the lurkers. Now, if this was closer to lynch day, then my vote would stay. I will jump on any wagon if we were closer to lynch day to make sure we get a lynch, to include self hammering.

[dsjstr]

He was L-2 then Egix unvoted which put him at L-3.

[Yodavader]

I thought he was at L-1. My bad.

[Yodavader]

But I believe I have the info I currently think I need on Fish for now.

[dsjstr]

One minute after I said that Fish was L-2 you made a comment, I just can't see how you didn't know. Even still why are you willing to push me to L-1 but now you aren't.

[72offsuit]

Alex ISO:

P61: I agree, good question asked of Fish
Townie vibe: +1

P68: Questioning re: joining wagon – trying to keep DSJ to be accountable
Townie vibe: +1

P161/163/167: I had the same impressions re hammering coming out of nowhere, Alex Querying Fish’s hammering intent
Townie vibe: +1

P165: Seeks clarification Re: Non Im reads
Townie vibe: +1

P168: Asks good pro-town questions Re: his reads on others that haven’t been discussed much
Townie vibe: +1

p194: Alex takes a stance Re claim and I agree with this – scum will most likely claim PR top fish, but yes, I do agree that DSJ is most likely to be town
Townie vibe: +1

p200: Yes, the ‘Placeholder’ vote sounded weird, another good pro-town question
Townie vibe: +1

P202 – I got a weird vibe from this interaction with yoda – I can’t really place my finger on it, but it just seems a bit off to me. Seems like an odd response to just say “fair”. Idk, just rubbed me the wrong way.
Scummy vibe: -1


@ Yoda, how does this placeholder vote differ to your vote on DSJ?


P206 – Alex’s reads feel similar to my sentiments Re: scumscale overall prior to ISOing everyone.
Townie vibe: +2

P207 – discussion with yoda continues on from p202, still feels a bit weird. Idk.
I don’t really agree with merc’s post being too irksome – seemed reasonable to me.
Scummy vibe: -1

NAI posts: 17,18,69,70,166,169,193,208,210

Summary: +7. Town Read.

Hm this points system is a bit arbitrary, I have more of a TR on DSJ than I do on Alex but the points system has Alex in front, I guess some of these +1’s should be more like +0.5’s etc if I was to arrive at how I actually read the 2 players in relative terms overall.

-10 for Fish is probably overly high a number for how much I actually FoS Fish, too, in relative terms.

[72offsuit]

@ Fish - You've obviously read my post since you are denying the role fishing that I stated.
I'm still awaiting a response Regarding what "other minor tells" you had on DSJ.

[Formerfish]

Your system also sucks because it takes no account for posters with low counts.

Like if you have a confbias towards me I'm going to have a significantly higher scum score under your system because I have a lot of posts and you don't like a lot of my posts.

What you lack is a reason why scum me acts the way that you say is Making me scummy.

Also, admit that me talking about what potential prs should do as a result is not role fishing. With the tracker claim there are 3, yes I missed one, but really it doesn't matter because the friendly neighbor can't do anything to protect the claimed tracker, so there would be no reason for them to out today anyways.

[72offsuit]

Your system also sucks because it takes no account for posters with low counts.

Like if you have a confbias towards me I'm going to have a significantly higher scum score under your system because I have a lot of posts and you don't like a lot of my posts.

What you lack is a reason why scum me acts the way that you say is Making me scummy.

Also, admit that me talking about what potential prs should do as a result is not role fishing. With the tracker claim there are 3, yes I missed one, but really it doesn't matter because the friendly neighbor can't do anything to protect the claimed tracker, so there would be no reason for them to out today anyways.

I just conceded that this points system I'm trialing, doesn't work exactly how intended.

Yes, the system does have flaws, I agree - yes i can see a key limitation is ppl with low post counts will score a lot less
I just stated that I don't feel you are as high as '-10' on the town-to-scum scale

No, I'm not going to be solely basing my decisions on the # value that comes up, its just helping me keep a bit of a track of my thoughts

Re: the PRs role fishing. OK i guess the missing a potential set-up could have been an oversight.

[Formerfish]

@ Fish - You've obviously read my post since you are denying the role fishing that I stated.
I'm still awaiting a response Regarding what "other minor tells" you had on DSJ.

Sorry I missed the question you threw into the middle of that rambling mess of an iso. I wish i had a how to course for newbies to follow to help clean posts like that up.

Honestly, i just looked at the bottom to see how accurate you were going to be and saw a 10 scum score and that you think me telling the other pr to not come out is role fishing so i dont put to much stock in your isos or much of anything else you have to say.

But ill play along cause i feel like this is a good teaching moment.

I don't think it is a bad idea to pressure the lynch,

because the other two SE's are on it

and the blatantly friendly relationship yoda has for former. I think there could potentially be some useful information we could get out of that. That's just my thoughts on the matter at this second, I learned D1 I tend to change opinions.

The bolded pinged me when i first read it because its excusing his own actions by saying that people who should know better don't so why should he?

The preview button helps a lot, I have to say I am so much more engaged than the first game I played.

I looked and saw his first game was as a mason. How are you move involved in a thread now than in your first game where you were confirmable town? Maybe by being scum?

ngl, gun-to-head, dsj/egi could be a thing just from first glance
past 1am here, bye for reals, gn everyone

Very progressive thinking! But for the record I don't swing that way.

This felt like a dodge, which i mentioned in step.

I just don't see the connection between us. Is it because we both didn't want to lynch early?

It was strange to me that he focused on the link here and neither of the reads made.

Actually I looked it up and I guess it is sheeping, I was using the term incorrectly in my last game, either way you don't take someone to L-1 because of sheeping when there is over 8 days left for D1. If this is why I get lynched I'm actually going to be a little upset.

VOTE: Yodavader

Yoda how can you change votes so easily, without knowing who the town is?

Then these the two together left a bad taste in my mouth.

So all of those added up to enough for me to push for a wagon on them based on the posts above.

Now i know differently and have unvoted and now im looking elsewhere.

[Formerfish]

Alex ISO:

P61: I agree, good question asked of Fish
Townie vibe: +1

P68: Questioning re: joining wagon – trying to keep DSJ to be accountable
Townie vibe: +1

P161/163/167: I had the same impressions re hammering coming out of nowhere, Alex Querying Fish’s hammering intent
Townie vibe: +1

P165: Seeks clarification Re: Non Im reads
Townie vibe: +1

P168: Asks good pro-town questions Re: his reads on others that haven’t been discussed much
Townie vibe: +1

p194: Alex takes a stance Re claim and I agree with this – scum will most likely claim PR top fish, but yes, I do agree that DSJ is most likely to be town
Townie vibe: +1

p200: Yes, the ‘Placeholder’ vote sounded weird, another good pro-town question
Townie vibe: +1

P202 – I got a weird vibe from this interaction with yoda – I can’t really place my finger on it, but it just seems a bit off to me. Seems like an odd response to just say “fair”. Idk, just rubbed me the wrong way.
Scummy vibe: -1


@ Yoda, how does this placeholder vote differ to your vote on DSJ?


P206 – Alex’s reads feel similar to my sentiments Re: scumscale overall prior to ISOing everyone.
Townie vibe: +2

P207 – discussion with yoda continues on from p202, still feels a bit weird. Idk.
I don’t really agree with merc’s post being too irksome – seemed reasonable to me.
Scummy vibe: -1

NAI posts: 17,18,69,70,166,169,193,208,210

Summary: +7. Town Read.

Hm this points system is a bit arbitrary, I have more of a TR on DSJ than I do on Alex but the points system has Alex in front, I guess some of these +1’s should be more like +0.5’s etc if I was to arrive at how I actually read the 2 players in relative terms overall.

-10 for Fish is probably overly high a number for how much I actually FoS Fish, too, in relative terms.

this is one way you could tidy this up.

Another would be to highlight the part you want to respond to and then click the quote tab to only pull what you had highlighted out and then respond to it, then cut and paste it into another open tab/window and create the wall that way. The easier you make it to understand what you are saying the more people will read.

[72offsuit]

Yoda ISO:

P66 I liked how he is getting players to take stance on lurkers, so that down the track someone doesn’t just say “super lurker, im voting for them” when earlier they say lurking isn’t very high on their scummy-actions-scale
Townie vibe: +1

p63 : TR on Alex which i agree with, ‘dusnt rag on non imh’
Townie vibe: +1

P76: votes for fish

P131: Still don’t see anything of note posted by Yoda Re: reactions to wagons, the whole reason he says he is voting on all the wagons - Only some rather superficial view of the actual player being wagoned, but not of the other players.
Scummy vibe: -1

P179: I don’t think this is a very townie-vibe type of read of the tracker claim. It’s like he is saying that he believes the claim due to meta-reasons of what ppl in general do, rather than actually trying to read into the specific case in front of us, the actual statements made by DSJ and the vibe given off by him.
I agree with Alex, scum is more likely to claim PR.
Scummy vibe: -2

P182: Still don’t really get the placeholder vote.

P198: asks pro-town question of Math.
Townie vibe: +1

NAI posts: Most of his posts – 22,24,26,27,28,32,37,38,46,50,54,64,65,78,80,99,102,107,123,147,178,183,190,191,195,199,201,230,204,209,211,232,235,237,238.

Summary: Overall neutral. A lot of posts, but feels a bit like not a whole lot of substance

[72offsuit]

Non Imh ISO:

P97: I don’t like this “Taking time to read” post but then doesn’t post anything substantive after this so called in depth read.
Scummy vibe: -1

P100: @ Non Imh: Echoing Yoda’s post, I’m still not understanding this post – who is the new player taking the role of leader?

P108: Not sure what to make of the DJs/Egi read. Good in that he takes a stance to FoS someone but 0 substance behind it.

P155: Random Alex vote, but if Im getting the gist he is doing it to “hear more from the guy”

NAI posts: 40,41,42,85,89,90,98,164,170,171

Summary: -1, but I have an overall neutral read. Simply not much substance

[72offsuit]

I scumread all of 212/214/216.
VOTE: Egix96

Offsuit has a weird posting style.

.

First one: I hadn't yet seen that I wasn't supposed to explicitly say that, so my bad.
Second/third ones: I'm not really seeing what you're getting at here; you think that I'm scum for defending Former? I feel he's town now.

Also, what do you find weird about 72's posting style?

What makes you feel Fish is town Egix?

[72offsuit]

Egix ISO:

P103: Felt like a premature unvote off Fish, still think this was weird. If Fish is ever lynched and flips scum, potential scum duo – as in wanting to have a record of voting for Fish at some stage
Scummy vibe: -1

P104: TR on math’s post which felt like a genuine townie read
Townie vibe: +1

P144: reasonable response to my query of his unvote, but as stated above it still feels weird, not sure if im over-reading into this.

P145- TRs me

P214: hard for me to put my finger onto this one. I guess depends on if Fish is ever lynched, what he flips as. If he flips town, this post seems pro-town, questioning Yoda’s criticising of wording re claim – intent to hammer pretty much asks for that. I agree, in that I don’t see an issue with Fish’s wording of it, but rather the action of intent to hammer despite not having hammer. Therefore I see this as a scummy post if Fish flips as scum.
Scummy vibe: -0.5

P228: TRs Fish – but little explanation regarding the read given. I don’t see Fish as being pro town at all.
Scummy vibe: -0.5


NAI posts: 44,105,106,143,144,212,213,215,216.

Summary: Overall neutral, perhaps slight scumlean