TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[Jingle]

Hey guys, PP seems to have given me the wrong role PM. My role is an amine and this game is all about destroying the amines.

VOTE: jj

[Jingle]

Also I have remembered that

Bitmap

RC is contractually obligated to carry me

FTFY

Hi RC I like your hat.

[Jingle]

I thought Jingle was gonna do a thing when he started with a me vote but he doesn't seem to be doing a thing atm

What thing? I voted you because you have the strongest ties to amine of any of the players I know here, Mr. Jojo.

[Jingle]

Why would voting you be dumb?

[Jingle]

Not really, no.

[Jingle]

So, we both know I'm scheming somehow. Why are you worried you can't figure it out on page 2?

[Jingle]

Hi guys I am a mason.

OH!

I have some damaged brickwork in the NW corner of my new house. Can you give me an estimate? I think there's 4 bricks that need to be replaced.

[Jingle]

No I was worried you weren't actually scheming at all, not that I couldn't figure it out

I'm never not scheming, Mr. Wizard.

[Jingle]

But if scumJingle -> Scheming and townJingle -> Scheming and 3rdParty Jingle -> Scheming then why are you concerned when you can't detect Jingle scheming?

[Jingle]

Theory: JJH knows I tend towards townreading suspicions on me and is making one up.

Goddammit, Ali, keep your ego out of this thread. This is how fights happen.

[Jingle]

I'm playing yugioh chill

I WILL NOT CHILL UNTIL YOU PLAY A BETTER GAME. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.

[Jingle]

I'm not suspicious of you though and if I was I'd be voting you

Hm.

[Jingle]

mastina, what's your pre-event write-up about me?

[Jingle]

Agreed RC.

[Jingle]

God, why is this game the boring one.

RC, ask RC who we should pressure.

[Jingle]

[Jingle]

Shhhh. If there's two of them I can get them into a bidding war and have this wall repaired super cheap.

[Jingle]

It's okay, we all know that this is an incredibly clumsy attempt at distancing from your scumbuddy.

[Jingle]

goat format is fun hush

Ah shit, Alisae knows I'm not really Batman, but rather a crazy doctor who gave himself all of the plastic surgery to look like Bruce Wayne.

Quick, Mena, distract everyone while I run away!

[Jingle]

Also it’s super easy for you to know who my scumbuddy is jingle considering we’re all sharing the mafia pt together

Blame Penguin for making it public instead of private. Who else would randomly check the PT section of the site?

[Jingle]

Can we get back to the important stuff

Anyone want to take a minute to just acknowledge how good this playerlist is

Eh. I've had better. Penguin wishes he could attract fun players as well as I can.

[Jingle]

I just checked the PT section of the site and I don't see it

That’s bc it’s just me, mastina and jingle who have access

Nah man, totally public:

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=75897

[Jingle]

Yes, pineapples do taste bad.

[Jingle]

Would you say you still hate playing scum jjh?

Nah, scum jjh is pretty fun to play against. It kinda sucks when he's your partner though, cause he just sits there and gets lynched.

[Jingle]

I thought this was notably outdated meta hence why I’m asking

I mean... I'm not saying it's been more than a year since I've played with jjh. But I am saying I've modded possibly his best scum game ever and he still got lynched.

[Jingle]

Because it largely doesn't matter, Sgt. Angle.

[Jingle]

How would I know if I asked?

[Jingle]

When in doubt, poke it with a stick and lick the stick instead.

[Jingle]

He's furthering the cause of the wagon while making you the primary pusher of said wagon. Or at least, that's the hito supposition.

[Jingle]

I don't think there's a way of knowing whether or not his vote on you matters in advance

There is. It doesn't.

[Jingle]

ftr I didn't have a read on Jingle when I asked other people to join the wagon

My vote on Jingle was rvs in case that wasn't clear

Why so insistent on that?

[Jingle]

Checks out.

VOTE: Bitmap

[Jingle]

He thinks you're a Pirate.

[Jingle]

Tell him if he was better at Fire Emblem he'd be able to get his message across to you without stopping his game, so it's his fault.

[Jingle]

Days of Ruin destroyed Advance Wars thoroughly, then went back and peed all over the ashes. Fire Emblem didn't have anything to do with it.

[Jingle]

It's okay, mastina, he already slipped not masons with you when he said he had to get a read on you before sheeping you on jj.

We know you're in separate masonries.

[Jingle]

I don't like you or RC anymore.

It's not my fault they decided to take a solid franchise and encase it in cement before dropping it in the ocean. RC may have been involved, though. It seems like the kind of thing he'd do while wearing a monocle and rubbing his hands together insidiously.

[Jingle]

Three masonries in a trenchcoat?

[Jingle]

Quick Alisae:

Advance Wars: Days of Ruin

Worst tac strat, or worstest tac strat?

[Jingle]

I can dig it.

VOTE: Shadoweh

[Jingle]

[Jingle]

Ok thanks mastina

definitely

being a town asset using 7 year old games.

You seem interestingly sure that mastina is town. Care to comment?

[Jingle]

jingle has posted nothing but spamposts since he started

Nah, there's relevant content too. I'm just very content to be passive atm.

[Jingle]

Oh no, I definitely get that you think mastina is bad.

I just also see what looks like you thinking mastina is bad town. Not scum, bad town.

[Jingle]

What is the thread consensus on you chem?

[Jingle]

Ok thanks mastina

definitely

being a town asset using 7 year old games.

You seem interestingly sure that mastina is town. Care to comment?

That is an interesting take but I have a different one which is equally or even more scum-indicative. Interested?

I am in the poke it with a stick portion of the day phase.


VOTE: ofhrzVOTE: [v/]

[Jingle]

VOTE: ofhrz

Typing is hard, man.

[Jingle]

VOTE: gamma

ok you can have a pass d1
gamma posting elsewhere on site is unusual and sketchy

the fact that gamma hasn't posted yet is strongly scum!indicative for him specifically

his last post on site was before team mafia started

This is interesting to me.

Alisae/Mena probs not S/S.

[Jingle]

He said that he understands the thread momentum well enough that he knows stepping in was the right decision rather than later.

Eh. It was never going to hit lynch today, but it was probably played out anyway.

[Jingle]

You are trying to make reactions with votes but you don't seem to care about effects.

Voting to see what happens is only half of what I'm doing. I'm also asking pointed questions.

I also resent the implication that I've pushed RC, particularly given that you at least partially understand my votes.

[Jingle]

@mastina:

In post 316, mastina wrote:
In post 301, Jingle wrote:
In post 299, Bitmap wrote:
Ok thanks mastina definitely being a town asset using 7 year old games.
You seem interestingly sure that mastina is town. Care to comment?
That is an interesting take but I have a different one which is equally or even more scum-indicative. Interested?


I am in the poke it with a stick portion of the day phase.

This was a yes, in case you're rusty on understanding Jingle.

[Jingle]

A Kerset wagon is going to be really boring though? They've got six posts and none of them say anything.

This is sort of the point

The point is that wagoning is inferior to stick poking rn with Kerset.

[Jingle]

RC wanted me to pass something to this thread. He said he's pretty sure that Mastina is scum who's getting away with murder since there are people who are willing to buy into her "aaa spooky RC" perspective but hasn't been really interested in pursuing it cause he feels like people knowing the read coming from RC is going to discredit it and bitmap doesn't really feel interested in pushing it by himself because this game is demoralizing and shit.

Tell RC to stop reading my team pt.

[Jingle]

My strongest townreads are bitmap and klick, btw.

[Jingle]

At least one of the people saying I'm not towny enough to be scum is probably scum.

[Jingle]

My strongest townreads are bitmap and klick, btw.

Why Bitmap?

Bitmaps reaction to both my dragging RC into this game and my poking over the mastina discredit were >rand town.

RC's combined reluctance to be dragged into this game and then the specific pop ins he made are both likely town.

All in all, I'm not at all interested in a Bitmap lynch.

[Jingle]

VOTE: mastina

[Jingle]

Mine are Mastina, Menalque, Ali, and Chemist

I'm vaguely tr-ing Mena.

[Jingle]

Ali, I'm not townreading you yet.

Do you feel like I should be?

[Jingle]

I read the first little bit, and I have a question.

Why is RC paying attention to this game?

[Jingle]

tl;dr on the case in rough order of strength:

Projection
Discrediting
Lack of Follow Through
Defensiveness
Trajectory

Am I wrong in my summation?

[Jingle]

I nommed.

No nomming RC. He's a bully.

Not even one of the cool bullies from the lava world. He's one of those ice cold bullies who doesn't return your love from the snowman world.

That's right, RC, IRL, is this guy:

[Jingle]

Damn, that could have been a pagetop.

[Jingle]

If I was Bitmap I'd be demoralized reading this too, with half the players asking for RC's opinions/mentioning RC and the other half asking Bitmap why they think RC's name being involved is a big deal, lol. (ﾉΦωΦ)ﾉ

I'm not saying I did this on purpose. But actually I am saying that. 100%.

[Jingle]

It was more or less "Jingle is being so blatantly obviously opportunistic there's no way that he's actually scum", more or less a too scummy for a competent player to actually be scum argument.

Hey mastina, what's my opinion on D1 wagons on me?

[Jingle]

I believe Pine won't get mad at me for sharing that this game is our team's bottom priority pretty much. It doesn't need my teammates' help so I'm flying solo, too. I'll get their help eventually, later in the game, when it's needed, but it isn't needed right now by and large.

Nobody on my team wants to read my game.

Also, worth noting, I asked mastina for her evalulations because I was curious from a whole event standpoint if she'd ranked teams or individual players. I disagree with he evaluation of my team (I intend to lean heavily on SS and RCE for reads accuracy in the lategame if I'm still alive) but am aware that she vastly overrates my townplay. That has very little to do with why I'm scumreading her.

In the same vein, I'll probably ask a question in a few days once I'm sure it can't benefit other teams that has absolutely nothing to do with this game specifically, but rather the approach teams are taking towards the event as a whole.

[Jingle]

@mastina

It was more or less "Jingle is being so blatantly obviously opportunistic there's no way that he's actually scum", more or less a too scummy for a competent player to actually be scum argument.

Hey mastina, what's my opinion on D1 wagons on me?

tl;dr on the case in rough order of strength:

Projection
Discrediting
Lack of Follow Through
Defensiveness
Trajectory

Am I wrong in my summation?

JJH, what is the most compelling part of mastina's wall for you?

[Jingle]

Stop wasting time crossvoting tbh, I also can't remember what mastina's done besides call Bitmap scum, but that might be because my eyes are kiri ni naruing over these posts. I'm not voting for mastina or Bitmap, I think this is distracting in general.

Disagree. I think this fight is going to be crucial to the victory of town. I doubt either of them ends up being the lynch today, but the fight itself should be incredibly valuable BECAUSE it's polarizing.

[Jingle]

Several external people have acknowledged that Bitmap has reason to feel upset by how he's been pushed around in the thread, independent of his reaction. That should at least make his reaction here a plausible town reaction.

I think the idea that Bitmap isn't actually feeling the 'persecution complex' and it's all just a scum ploy is a bit silly.

Posts like this are why Klick is obvtown AF, btw.

Also, the post where she immediately gave literally the only person on her team that would have relevant thoughts on me's thoughts if that person was looking at the game from a town POV.

[Jingle]

I mean, the thing that switched my focus was the rather extensive list of discredits, especially with the context of Bitmap going straight to discrediting me the second I made clear he was still very much on my scumpile.

Facetious question:

Have you played a game containing both Firebrunger and Mastina?

[Jingle]

Ok so you should know that this game is pretty stressful for me.

It's cool, man. We're no where near ready for a lynch yet. I'm playing the game of sculpting the game to where reads can be generated rather than generating reads right now, and you were the sacrifice to make that happen. It should cool down significantly from here.

[Jingle]

You're not going to get more info than that by quoting those posts again because I said everything I can think of the first time?

Sorry, missed those. I'm kinda paying more attention to Scummies judging atm, tbh.

I'm firmly in support of early wagons on me because A) early wagons are easy to derail and being wagoned early means it makes complete sense for you to not have been nightkilled late (as scum) and B) people voting/suspecting/dancing around me are way easier to analyze than people whose alignment I don't know.

tl;dr You're townreading me FOR BEING ME which is only slightly better than townreading me for the obligatory "I'm a terrifying PR and you should shoot me" crumb I make in just about every game. I expect considerably more paranoia regarding me from you, because you KNOW that I think my scumgame is leagues above my towngame AND that my biggest asset as town isn't read strength. I find this questionable as balls.

[Jingle]

But Jingle, you pushed mastina, not Bitmap

I dragged RC into the game AND poked Bitmap creating the core of mastina's case forever ago. Keep up, wizard, I'm always scheming.

God, why is this game the boring one.

RC, ask RC who we should pressure.

Ok thanks mastina

definitely

being a town asset using 7 year old games.

You seem interestingly sure that mastina is town. Care to comment?

[Jingle]

Projection
Discrediting
Lack of Follow Through
Defensiveness
Trajectory
Self Consciousness
Team Focus
WK-ing Klick

Okay. This is the case on Bitmap in a nutshell. Let's take a crack at it.

Projection is a pet scumtell of mine, but there's a grain of salt there, because (spoiler) it's not actually a scumtell. I push it as scum because it's easy to fall back on and explain why someone is scum because of it AND if you successfully mislynch a town player over it you now have a fancy scumcase put forward by a trustworthy town player to fall back on. I push it as town because frequently it catches people off guard and they make more telling reactions after the accusation. But here's the thing: most people aren't self aware enough to realize that their likely wrong scumread is doing the same thing they themselves are doing. Here, Bitmap is accusing someone (Shadoweh, I think?) of being tryhard while being tryhard himself. Being tryhard isn't particularly scummy in itself, especially when someone is being tryhard without trying to strongarm the thread.

Discrediting mastina is definitely a thing Bitmap has been doing. But that's also not inherently scummy. There are three reactions to mastina. There are the people who mesh well with her style (me/jjh) there are the people who can deal with her style (most of the site) and there is Firebringer. Bitmap is showing all of the indications of a Firebringer. Complete inability to work with her, disdain for her reads and her style, willingness to lynch her despite her alignment. But mastina is not treating Bitmap the same way mastina treats Firebringer as town. Mastina knows how to work around people who don't want to play ball, and develop reads in spite of them. She's not doing that. She's staying focused on this one fight.

Lack of follow through on D1 when the original read came from "LOOK AT THE SHINY SCUMTELL" RC is fucking laughable. Defensiveness when getting into a 1v1 as one of the perceived weaker players in this game is similarly laughable.

Scum reading Bitmap because

I

dragged RC into this game is fucking hilarious, and protecting obvtown Klick is 100% not a scum move here. You don't protect a weaker town player people are associating you with as scum, you let them be lynched and then point out that the associations with them are why you were being scumread in the first place.

Basically, mastina's entire case as to why Bitmap is scum is actually things I did, or things I fully expect mastina to know are town or NAI at best. And mastina is townreading me.

[Jingle]

This scheme sounds more scummy than towny when your stated reasoning was to build a gamestate that actually helps you read people though
If this is like you say it is you're basically controlling the gamestate to get people to this state with the assumption where one of Bitmap and mastina is scum

Kinda exactly my point. All of the things mastina is scumreading Bitmap for I wouldn't expect town her to scumread Bitmap for OR were actually caused by me. Which tells me mastina isn't trying to read the situation at all.

And no, I didn't want Bitmap and mastina to fight, specifically. I wanted A fight in general. I would've continued poking people until either I got that fight or a serious wagon on me, at which point the true analysis begins. It just turned out that mastina jumped on bit.

[Jingle]

Though as an aside I really wanna just tell Jingle my 123 thing and nobody else but there's no way of doing that

Let me take a minute to give you my setup impressions.

Likely decentralized power. Not a single tentpole setup, but rather a synergy based setup. Scum power therefore is probably disruptive in nature. (Roleblocker/Rolecop seems the most likely.)

Given the mods, unlikely to be a setup where ridiculous interactions is the key to solving it (see me/Ali/Krazy) but rather something fairly tame.

Probably little to no low talent roles (cop, for example) since this is designed as a measure of skill. Tracker, JK, Doc, etc FAR more likely.

Flavor wise, 3p and multikill are both reasonable, although scum will only have one killing role.

At this point, you're an unlikely town target but a relatively likely scumtarget. You should probably claim sometime around D3 assuming my assumptions are fairly accurate as Rolecop is a very likely scumrole.

[Jingle]

It's not the worst end of the day, but we're not quite done with the juggling hornet's nests portion of the dayphase.

[Jingle]

I think this is exactly the opposite approach Mena had to premature tr-s on him in C9, which gives me vague feelgoods. Someone should go check that for me, cause I'm being lazy.

[Jingle]

hito can be town

Why do you townread hito?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Jingle]

UNVOTE:

I've been reading old games and I don't feel as strongly as I used to about things.

[Jingle]

Can you go into more detail about the things in the old games that have caused you to no longer feel sufficiently strongly about the read to be voting there?

Not really?

I was reading mbos for very obvious reasons when it happened, (although I've been reading a lot of games the last few days for those same obvious reasons) and it occurred to me that I haven't actually seen mastina scum firsthand in a long time. Like... Most of my thoughts about mastina scum have been comparing her to her presence in Org13, RC's Story UPick, and PineVCamn.

Yeah. I think the most recent of those is 2 years old, and I'm definitely thinking that deserves a reset.

[Jingle]

Oh I was hoping you might have remembered something to compare to her towngame

Nothing so compelling. I'm not really townreading her, I'm just kinda at the point where the things I expect her to remember trivia about me and the things where she's acting how I would expect scummastina to act literally years ago aren't really as compelling. I'm not townreading her (she's more than capable of doing all of this as scum) but I'm not really scumreading her anymore either.

Hey bitmap. Of people who are on the other teams in this game who knows you/knows how to read you best?

[Jingle]

and who won guns and roses

FakeGod, for getting me to sub into a game I'd already lost.

[Jingle]

honestly Jingle and maybe jjh are probably the most qualified to meta me lmao

I've seen kernels of early FotM Ali and no kernels of Stellaris Ali or AVP Ali and I think if you were scum with like anyone in this list you'd be Stellaris Ali and if you were specifically trying to metashift you'd be AVP Ali, which is slightly town.

[Jingle]

Shadoweh, could you get Dunn to comment as to whether A) Bit would believe he can meta him and B) Bit would aggressively discredit as town/scum and which would be more likely if both?

Bonus points if he has game examples.

[Jingle]

Yeah, I've definitely gotten the low effort vibes. You're kinda just floating waiting for someone to come talk to you when I think as scum you'd be super pumped to be playing with just about anyone in this list. Maybe not Gamma/Kers/ofhrz? I dunno.

I feel like today's lynch is just going to end up being on one of the low energy slots and I'm not really against that tbh. Is there anyone here you'd expect to reach out to you?

[Jingle]

I agree with you that the response was disproportionate, jj. I'm not sure I agree that the disproportionate response means scum though. And there have been a couple of things from RC specifically that have been like... Super town imo.

[Jingle]

Talk about those things and tell me why they're something that makes Bitmap town

I went back to look them up, and I had remembered more of a Klick defense than I can find atm.

RC's sentiment about mastina capitalizing on a RC-is-scary vibe was pretty close to what I was thinking about mastina concurrently, although I'm not sure that stands up.

The demoralization of being BOP'd reads as genuine.

The scumread of me seems like the most honest read on me ITT to date.

[Jingle]

Talk to me about Chem. I don't know why they're being tr-d at all.

[Jingle]

What chem reads did you like, Ali?

[Jingle]

jj, can you chill on bitmap at least until we get word back from Dunn? Like... Objectively, you're right. Bitmap freaked out with a little bit of pressure. But without showing how that is AI for specifically bitmap that's not really going to progress the game, and Dunn weighing in is the first step to trying to untangle that web. (Unless you want to meta dive, in which case go for it.)

Also, why are YOU townreading chem? I assume it's not because he agrees with Ali's reads that you disagree with.

[Jingle]

He's had some fairly insightful interactions with me when I've said things and he's disagreed in ways that are productive to discussion

Examples?

[Jingle]

The latter two are pretty meh, but I actually agree wrt to the first.

I'm not sure how I feel about Ali's reasoning atm.

You also both agree on Mena. Would you mind explaining that to me as well?

[Jingle]

It is important to me that untrod Tripod be allowed to destroy Armani.

[Jingle]

UT’s wants are trivial in the face of mine.

[Jingle]

Ali, did you ever talk about your mena read?

[Jingle]

Ali, did you ever talk about your mena read?

he is obv town SHUT UP u STUPID scumfuck u are literally ALWAYS scum

Nah uh I changed my sig. now I’m all about how comedians viewed mutual respect in the 60s.

Also, I’m trying to figure out why you and jj have such different gamestate reads by looking at what you agree on. I don’t disagree that he’s town, I want to know why specifically you think he’s town.

[Jingle]

I like it when people talk about Jingle.

Do you agree that someone who said I’m not towny enough to be scum is probably scum?

[Jingle]

there's a lot of people who are town reading me or top town reading me and tbh I don't get it as I really don't think I've done anything to warrant it yet

Ali, wdy make of this? Reasonable concern or not? Why?

[Jingle]

That’s... not really a response though. Do you think it was reasonable to be tr-ing mena then?

[Jingle]

Like, mena expressed that he was worried about faked trs (fmpov, I may be putting words in his mouth) and your response was “well then deserve them”

[Jingle]

Why?

[Jingle]

i told him to play better because I want to win and nail all of the scumfucks and if he plays better its easier to win and nail all of the scumfucks

Sure, but that still doesn’t address the issue. Why were you tr-ing him?

[Jingle]

Only the first one of those games is at all similar. JJ take a look at bit/Maria as compared to bit/mastina for me. I want your analysis.

[Jingle]

Overlord was a pretty good nazi zombie movie, for those who like nazi zombie movies.

[Jingle]

Fair. I’m going to be myself.

[Jingle]

Bed myself. Never be yourself, it’s way less fun than being Harrison Ford.

[Jingle]

2 teams down, 15 teams left to go.

[Jingle]

Meanwhile in terms of differences, Bitmap's read properly flipflopped on MariaR, rather than going from a bunch of discredits to a solid scumread, and I don't see the paranoia. He seems frantic, but not paranoid or particularly vulnerable to pressure. I don't really know how much pressure was on him at any given time because I'm just doing the dual iso, but it doesn't look like he's reacting badly to it at any point.

It was a low pressure start, at least for what I read (the first 72 hours of the game). I agree that Bit was way more collected overall.

Bit, do you have any games where you've hard discredited a slot or flipped out that you can link? Can you share the start of your distaste for mastina?

[Jingle]

The meat of what Hito says makes me think I should be tr-ing Hito but I’m still not tr-ing Hito. I don’t know what that means.

[Jingle]

Who is tr-ing Kees and why?

[Jingle]

VOTE: Kerset

My levels of give-a-shit are very low atm, but I grok what jj is putting out here and it doesn't make me scared I'm completely wrong about everything.

[Jingle]

Understanding with an implication of empathic resonance.

I understand it, and I feel roughly the same way.

[Jingle]

ok so those are scumreads LOL

How so?

[Jingle]

Honestly Hito? I’m not worried about parsing the you/shadow fight right now any more than I am the mastina/bitmap fight. I remember liking things from both of you but not what those things are, which makes me think the whole thing will be easier to manage with context. I may not know which of you if either is scum, but you’re both making enough arguments that I am confident I can figure that out in the future.

Kers otoh is acting unnaturally to the other big 1v1 and I’m getting severe flying under the radar vibes.

we all know reundo 1238 sucks, if it sucks because he's scum it'll probably be obvious quick, hey reundo 1.) why did you think in-depth reads would be pointless 2.) what reads did your team have waiting for you.

But like... is it?

[Jingle]

Shadoweh is actively trying to get you lynched afaict. Not particularly effectively, but the effort is there.

And I meant to type does it, as in, does1238 really suck.

[Jingle]

TBC, I did read your post and I understand what you’re saying wrt the lack of reasoning, but no reasoning in one post doesn’t mean further reasoning isn’t forthcoming.

Your issue seems to be that this one post isn’t a post that we can conclusively read reundo off of alone, but I don’t know why you’d expect it would be.

[Jingle]

Dude, I think I'm the only person on my team who's even trying with the other games and even then I'm perpetually behind on all of them.

[Jingle]

Let me know if you actually do that. I'd watch.

[Jingle]

I regret to inform you if you name your Yoshi cowbell your chat will be spammed with requests for more cowbell. This is unavoidable.

[Jingle]

Welp, time to paranoia lynch mena, I guess.

[Jingle]

1483 is D1 sheepable, ig. I’m gonna feel really stupid if I’m wrong, but I feel like mena lurking here might be townie? I need to analyze that because it also may be TMI.

[Jingle]

The lurking. It says you didn’t think I already knew your alignment here, because you were exacerbating a difference. If all of a sudden you’re inactive here and hyper active there and I know youR alignment here, I would naturally assume that you were the opposite alignment there. If we were scum together here, that would be a powerful trick, but as we both know that’s not the case.

The question is did town you not think of the implications if I was scum or tr-d me strong enough to not worry about it, or did scum you know I wouldn’t be able to be sure in either case?

[Jingle]

But then why does scum you lurk in the first place? To differentiate your behavior from that game further so I wouldn’t suspect you here after you flipped red there? Not likely, you knew flipping red over there would naturally make me more paranoid and likely to look deeper into your alignment here, regardless of the differences unless you straight up threw the other game.

So it’s more likely that you just didn’t consider that I might already know your alignment which is potentially reasonable.

What was your read on me here prior to my repping in to g&r?

[Jingle]

All of the most reasonable levels of play for that play point to mena town strongly, so I’m going to silence the crazy for now.

Mena/Klick/ofhrz/chem/jj is now my working town block.

[Jingle]

Yeah, sure, link all the games you kicked my ass.

[Jingle]

RCE says bit discrediting is his scum move, FWIW.

[Jingle]

Grats, chem

Does this mean ofhrz can move up in ur readslist?

quite likely
{towncore}
{Mena, ofrhz}
{rest}
{hito?}
{UT}

I’m confused about this.

[Jingle]

RCE says bit discrediting is his scum move, FWIW.

I find it funny he says that since I've never played with him when I was scum. Actually the only game we've played together was magical girls afaik.

Well, he thinks you’re scum. And also said whoever said we needed to solve you/mastina today was probably scum but I don’t even remember that happening so... :shrug:

[Jingle]

How can someone know my scum meta when I haven't rolled scum for so long because RNGesus cucks me every game?

I dunno, but I'll ask. I'm just excited that someone read at least some of my game tbh.

RC wanted me to post this.

For the last time, no, I don't need my lawn mowed.

NSG wanted to know everyone's opinions on her reads.

I'm vaguely weirded out by the tr on me (I don't remember nsg being able to read me for shit, but the game Mena linked is the only recent example of us being in the same lobby and I'm not sure it's a good one.) The locktown makes sense to me. The weak town reads on Shadow and Kers are spicy and I'd love to hear more, but you also already promised more so...

I think she's wrong on Mena, but that's also not odd considering Mena was a GOAT in C9 so I expect paranoia there. I'm mostly sheeping groupthink on Chem (if everyone else thinks he's town, it's probably a towndriven read from at least one angle). Reundo and Alisae are both kinda bleh takes, but not really impossible. Vaguely disappointed she didn't comment on mastina and I think a description of how she sees the hito/shadoweh fight would probably do me the most good if she wants to give that.

[Jingle]

Tell RC I was calling nsg's scumreads bleh, in that they're really easy opinions to have FMPOV. Reundo is like the lowest hanging fruit in the underwater city of Atlantis and Ali is just a boring slot to have a read on regardless of the read rn.

Also, maybe I'd listen to nsg more if she didn't get shot N1 when she should be a BP IC.

[Jingle]

I agree, but I'm really not.

I don't know how much of that is you and how much of that is me, tbh.

[Jingle]

1525 sounds true.

I need to look back at Stellaris to make sure it is true though. I'm not really interested in lynching you though if that helps.

[Jingle]

Did you check out Mena's towncase on Selina?

[Jingle]

I feel left out when u guys use irl names

It's actually an old avatar reference, I think. Kinda like when I call her Sgt Angle.

[Jingle]

U have UT at the bottom of your readslist?

Are you not scumreading UT? He's like, obvscum. Dude wants to deploy armani.

[Jingle]

Completely irrelevant to my alignment tbh.

If it's bored memeing it's more likely to be town but if it serves a point it's more likely to be scum. Good luck trying to tell the difference though.

[Jingle]

Why are sr-ing Klick?

[Jingle]

Eh fuckit.

VOTE: Reundo

[Jingle]

Not a fan of a bunch of eLiTe PlAyErS getting together to lynch the new guy's slot with 5 posts tbh

Hey, I'm an elite moderator. It's just mastina that convinces everyone I actually know what I'm doing as a player that screws me over.

[Jingle]

Your pure mechanics is better than mine

Sure, but let's be honest. If there was a way for FL to play two games and me to just sit in the team PT and setup spec you'd be playing a game with FL right now.

[Jingle]

Thank fuck

jjh supports UT's TM decision to not let me be an honorary team member. Clearly he's aligned with UT and wants to Delay Aimee.

[Jingle]

I have 3 games with nsg, I think. We've moderated each other more than we've played with each other. I just have a long history of mutual scumreads with RC and expected that to have colored things.

My issue with the scumreads other than Mena is that they're lazy and uncompelling, not so much that they're wrong. I'd be much more interested in hearing more about the reads I think are spicy (Kers/Shadoweh) than the ones that I see as boring though.

Ali at the time was unmotivated Ali, which is really easy to just say is scum Ali (see: Ali lynch in FotM, a game RC won and NSG modded). Thus, boring. If nsg was saying Ali from the last few pages was scummy, that'd be more spicy.

You're not wrong that my read on Chem is lazy. I'm just looking at the multiple choice bubbles going "Do I flip a coin or do I hope the asshole to the left actually studied" and going "Eh, at least if the asshole to the left didn't study I'm going to look stupid in a group as opposed to looking stupid alone." It's a slightly less dumb way of not actually bothering to try to improve myself.

[Jingle]

I uh... I am? I'm voting Gamma. Hearing about the spicy reads helps me with the slots those reads are on. I disagree on Kers and want to know what she sees and have no fucking clue on shadoweh/hito and am interested in why nsg has a read on one but not the other.

Also, Ali, Bitmap said your reaction was scummy. I don't think he's said why nsg thought you were scummy, although you can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. (I also don't really care because I think you were definitely not obvtown ~10 pages ago and the logic in 1625.)

[Jingle]

but if we want to talk about the actual problem with that is that its a very easy thing to push.

Agreed. I said it was boring.

I don't think NSG explaining it helps me read Bitslot or you. I also don't foresee either of you dying today so I'm really not interested in breaking out the magnifying glass to examine it in detail. I'd much rather hear about the slots that the read is interesting for, rather than another 'no u' fight.

[Jingle]

Nah, they just have the mega seal that ate Raybells. Raybells account has been puppeted by the megaseal for like a year and a half at this point, Ali. Why do you think we never see the Megaseal and Raybells in the same place at the same time?

[Jingle]

MIND BROKEN

PLEASE SEND HELP

This is the meme that breaks you? Not when I intimated that RC just wants to see me in a towel?

Man, I should get better at reading a crowd, ig.

[Jingle]

Ali is one of the most free individuals in this game.

jay jay hatterson jingle is cyber bullying me ;w;

But at least I'm nice about it!

[Jingle]

Oh well, at least I can still use this one:

:thorface:

[Jingle]

I don't even use that smiley

[Jingle]

I think keeping Kers off of hammer at least is useful for the moment, jj.

[Jingle]

With that being said, it has to be something with the people themselves then, no? It seems like I don't really understand your motives here, and the path to winning is not going to be coming out of a super spicy read that's revolutionary and never heard of before. I can't seem to really imagine your thought process so I'm just gonna let you elaborate.

I explained why I'm not inclined to think your read on Mena will be exciting/compelling, and you saying you don't have a bias there doesn't actually do much to convince me that you don't have a bias there. Particularly when I just arrived at a fairly strong townread on him through the end of G+R.

Alisae is very easy to scumread erroneously when e's demotivated, so I don't think your scumread on Ali that originated in a time when e was demotivated is particularly likely to be incredibly accurate or telling.

I don't know how to read chemist, so I have no idea how to judge a read on Chemist. Regardless, I don't think I gain much from you elaborating on that. (Maybe lazy isn't the best way to describe this read, but it definitely still falls under the heading of I don't really care about it.)

Reundo being a low effort scumread should go pretty much without saying.

Does that help to clarify why I was more interested in hearing about Kers/Shadoweh?

[Jingle]

You mean Reundo and yes that was one of my thoughts

I meant preventing Kers from hammering Reundo, actually, but yeah.

This last page by Kerset seems particularly off, and I'm not sure if it's off enough that I don't want to lynch Reundo anymore but I want to figure it out either way.

I think a Kerset red flip is potentially the best thing that could happen for this game where I'm not sure a Reundo red flip has the same impact. I'm also not sure what either of them flipping green does to my thought processes and I need to consider that.

[Jingle]

I think Green Reundo actually firms up Green Ali, because scum don't tend to want to build castles on sand, if that makes sense.

I don't know that Green Kers firms up anyone, cause no one has made strong defenses there and the attacks have all had fairly sturdy foundations.

I'm pretty okay with just lynching Reundo, atp.

[Jingle]

I feel like if there was a thing I'd be able to see it

He's aware that he's at L-1 when he's less than engaged with the thread is my bet, tbh.

[Jingle]

Could potentially be that his character is/isn't an actual amine when mastina's is the opposite, but I wouldn't expect mastina to catch that.

Also, I'm not sure whether my character is/isn't an actual amine, so...

[Jingle]

I don't, scum is way more fun to play.

[Jingle]

And also, in TM you objectively want to rand scum because winning as scum is better for reducing the tiebreakers of other teams than winning as town.

Being scum is an advantage.

[Jingle]

Why is that scummy Kers?

[Jingle]

It went 3-2 I thought.

CK permaban was a townwin.
Ali's "We pretended to balance this and then sheep claimed scum" was a town win.
I think TSQ won White flag for scum?
And Transcend's Fuck You was scum?

I can't even remember the last game, tbh. Ether's I think?

But I'm pretty sure the finalists were {People who won a scumgame}.

[Jingle]

But a little bit of context added to 1799 reinforces the credibility of mastina having those reads simultaneously. Like... She was voting Bitmap, then all of her townreads voted you and she joined. Then she was voting you and all of her townreads voted Reundo and she joined. I don't see how that's in any way conflicting with {she scumreads all three of you}.

If anything, mastina has been super consistent this game.

[Jingle]

So really the trick is to rand scum in games that have unhinged townplayers

Unless those unhinged town players have computers telling them you're scum. Right mastina?

[Jingle]

Yeah town won white flag in spite of town

Oh, it must have been that I wanted scum to clutch victory there. TBH, at that point I was way more invested in watching GIF wreck Ali. Best TM 2018 game by far.

[Jingle]

WHY WOULD HE CLAIM TRACKER AS JAILKEEPER? WHO EVEN FUCKING DOES THAT?

[Jingle]

The tiebreak game was the old newbie setup. And GIF fakeclaimed to get Ali to scumclaim.

[Jingle]

e replaced in D2 I think. Players only had D1 to read for their guess. The endgame was hilarious though.

[Jingle]

Subject: Tiebreak Mafia Day 3

No, that means we lynch Alisae because there is no doctor in this setup.

VOTE: Alisae

I'm actually a jailkeeper.

[Jingle]

Sorry, Ali, but you have to admit that game was fucking hilarious.

<3

[Jingle]

Subject: Tiebreak Mafia Day 3

VOTE: Jingle

smh secret bastard game

Pffft. It’s no secret I’m a bastard.

[Jingle]

It's okay, Ali. I'm bullying you because you're great, not because you're on a team with RC.

[Jingle]

I'll bite, how do we get GIF to fakeclaim in this game?

[Jingle]

But a little bit of context added to 1799 reinforces the credibility of mastina having those reads simultaneously. Like... She was voting Bitmap, then all of her townreads voted you and she joined. Then she was voting you and all of her townreads voted Reundo and she joined. I don't see how that's in any way conflicting with {she scumreads all three of you}.

If anything, mastina has been super consistent this game.

Quoting cause I kinda buried it in memories.

[Jingle]

I think it should be common knowledge at this point that killing me only makes me stronger

No. What

DOESN'T

kill you makes you stronger.

[Jingle]

I’m getting close to prod range but I’ll catch up and respond tomorrow.

[Jingle]

Weren't you guys supposed to lynch scum again before I got here? This is bullshit.

[Jingle]

Tell RC he's cute.

[Jingle]

I mean...

He's pretty cute. RC has never once tr-d me correctly, including a game when we were both innod by two separate cops. The read does look genuine though!

[Jingle]

No I should definitely reach lylo.

Nah.

First of all, we shouldn't hit LYLO at all. There's just not that many suspect players left. Second of all, if mastina is BP IC then we're pretty near autowin already. Third of all, if you're hated you mechanically can't be taken to LYLO because, you know, autoloss. Fourth, I'm pretty sure I had something for this.

With that said, I'm not on board with lynching you today, and I think today is probably massclaim but want to think more about it before committing.

[Jingle]

Eh, the other points still stand and you're not gonna live that long as town if we do somehow approach LYLO anyway.

Forgive me if I get a little ramble-y soon, I need to think and I'm probably gonna do it here instead of the Team PT cause I don't think anything I'm thinking about is especially damning.

[Jingle]

No claims yet please and thank you. We might not need them.

As it is, ofhrz dies tonight. If we can keep that state of affairs without negatively impacting our chances of lynching scum, I'd appreciate it.

[Jingle]

Flips:

Mafia Strongman
2x Rolestopper

Town JK
VT

Evident

Loyal Neighborizor
Inventor with both passive positive and passive negative effects.

[Jingle]

Mechanical reads:

Outed:
Mastina
ofhrz

Softed:
Chem
Kers

Received an invention:
Bitmap

Leaving:
Jingle
Shadoweh
hitogoroshi
Klick

One of those 4 is confirmable. Therefore those 4 should not claim unless lynch is imminent today, I think. I need to look back at Mena/Gamma D1 to see what the wagons say, but I feel like we can probably strike some more names based on who was integral in swinging Reundo.

I can make a pretty solid towncase for myself if needed, but honestly it's probably better if mastina does it. Based on Chem's daystart, he's 85% town.

That leaves a suspect pool of Bitmap/Shadow/hito/Klick/Jingle/Kers.

[Jingle]

oh yeah obligatory i was right about this not being role madness

Obligatory role madness doesn't necessarily mean no VT's, but can in fact mean few VTs.

[Jingle]

Note: Reundo wagon is pure with exception of Mena at this point. Wagon shrinks until Kerset vote in 1913. Double bus strongman D1 when momentum seems to be moving to Bitmap/hito soft implies Kerset town. Reundo final wagon is {

Menalque

,

Jingle

,

ofrhz

, Kerset, Klick,

Alisae

,

Chemist1422

}

Bitmap likely town cw? Bitmap, ask RC how much of his hito read is wagonomics, please. Also I do care to hear your reads if they're on those players who aren't largely mechanically solved and if you disagree on the mechanical clears I'd like to know why.

[Jingle]

oh yeah obligatory i was right about this not being role madness

Obligatory role madness doesn't necessarily mean no VT's, but can in fact mean few VTs.

that’s a PR-heavy game

Role Madness refers to a type of game where most or all of the players have power roles; that is, there are few to no true Vanilla Townies.

[Jingle]

L2Lingo.

[Jingle]

Okay. I'm interested in sorting in Kerset/Klick/hito today.

I don't think Shadow sits on her hands and doesn't do anything to either bus or save when the strongman is going down, particularly when bitmap wagon has some strong voices behind it at the time and more than a few people who scumread him.

Bitmap, similarly, is just kinda sitting there doing nothing at EoD. RC is more than capable of pushing him to start another wagon or bus, even if we assume bitmap is grossly incompetent at scum (which, for the record, I don't believe to be the case). Instead, bit is vanity pushing Ali, which is a wagon that pretty much anyone could see didn't have legs. E wasn't townread per say, but e definitely wasn't getting lynched without a crazy amount of effort. Even if RC doesn't have the time to defend, there should be at least some attempt to grab towncred from the reundo lynch.

ofhrz is dead scum's vanity vote, in a comfortable position on the Reundo wagon and had been there for quite some time, and is claimed vig.

Chem doesn't have a reason to come in softing a guilty on Kers as scum. It's just going to raise questions he doesn't need.

Kers/Klick are both in positions where they could definitely have seen the writing on the wall and were just piling on, but Kerset is actually leagues better timing wise despite both the guilty the squicky feel of the almost hammer.

hito, otoh, is arguably the person most actively attempting to keep Reundo alive by abandoning a weak 1v1 on shadow that wasn't gaining traction to push bitmap who had a fair amount of support from all angles.

Note to self, 2025 mentions DACC members as the lynch targets, soft implying no SK. Additionally, this is a typo, and I should make fun of peepee for it later.

[Jingle]

now chemist your turn to claim

No thanks.

Chem, claim consistency or not, but not what you are please.

[Jingle]

mastina, check my ramblings and lynch pool and see if you agree.

I think hito -> Kerset -> Klick is the solve.

[Jingle]

Ah, my bad. Still, the conclusion I was drawing of 2 methods of fucking with your role stands. My guess is the last scum is an information/utility of some kind. 3 now, with Kers' claim and Chem's backing it up.

Also, Take Kers out of my lynch order, because if Kerset is a 1x Commuter it makes more sense for her to be town than scum with what we know of the setup.

[Jingle]

I am townreading Klick as well, but I don't think that townread is as strong as the gamestate evidence that both Bitmap and Shadow are town based on how D1 played out, fwiw.

Like, similar strength there to what I assume is the gamestate evidence for my town-ness in your eyes as opposed to the mechanical evidence and the play based evidence, tbh.

[Jingle]

1) Why the fuck would Kerset have done a friendly neighbor on jjh when he clearly had him as scum in {mastina/jjh}.

2) You're all assigning town credibility by being on the wagon but instead it's the fucking opposite.

The "lurkers get no sympathy from me" is bad and 1913 is so disgustingly SvS looking post.

3) Your positions as a group in this game just suck.

Klick isn't scum.
Shadoweh isn't scum.
We're not scum.
Mastina isn't scum
Ofrhz isn't scum.

1 is a good point, actually.
2 is actually pretty much opposite to what I'm saying. I'm saying that the people who were on neither the wagon or the counterwagon, but who were both around enough to push something and WEREN'T pushing something with legs are town. Kerset's vote was the best of Kerset/Klick/hito because it was the vote which restored momentum to the wagon.
2b Yes. By play, Kerset would be my strongest scumread.
3 That's a list of 4 things I said and one that I want to believe is true, so...

I'll talk about my mech clear on Kers in a moment.

[Jingle]

Chem, don't further out your role, give me a minute to expand without your knowledge possibly being leaked.

[Jingle]

Chem has a role with visible results. This is a known quantity, because there's no reason to fake having it from scum Chem's perspective.

Chem was not blocked by jjh or Mena last night, considering both jjh and mena were, you know, dead. There is very little chance of a third blocking role in the setup.

Kerset, therefore, is either a commuter or an ascetic.

Kerset is unlikely to be a scum commuter. First of all, Commuter/RB/Strongman is pretty ridiculous as a scumteam, especially with an investigative like mastina's. Second, Kers claimed a third ability, so if no such ability materializes, he has a big problem.

Kerset is unlikely to be an ascetic. Similarly to the commuter, this doesn't really fit in a scumteam with a roleblocker very well. In fact, it's even less suited to the scumteam since it only creates a false guilty (on scum) for mastina and doesn't protect from the vig shot. Furthermore, Menalque claimed ascetic midflail, which would be a very interesting reaction if he knew there were an ascetic in the setup via partner knowledge. And, tbc, it was a flail because

jj's flip explained mastina's guilty perfectly

. Additionally, Kerset has no out if targeted by say, the missing inventor role that is known to exist and not getting an invention. It's a dead man walking claim, made by supposedly the last scum standing.

Finally, Kerset's claimed role has positive interactions with ofhrz and negative interactions with mastina and town inventor, which lends it the ring of truth.

Mechanically, as much as I want to scumread Kerset for play reasons, it's probably just a town slot.

[Jingle]

There's so much to be pissy about when you guys decided to suddenly mech clear someone who claimed friendly neighbor on dead while having no reason to target dead (jjh) and the reasoning wasn't there?

I admitted getting the answer there is worth doing, Bit. Kers can answer why he targeted jjh. Tell RC this is one of those weird games where he can trust me to be town or defending town and thus looking over my reasoning on Kers is 100% reasonable and both of you can cool down.

Mastina hasn't gotten any traction on lynching you, so you don't need to rage against the machine atm. This feels exactly like the ROFLstomp 2070 turned into, and we'll get to lynching Fumuki 100% faster if we approach this calmly.

[Jingle]

I'm gonna claim now.

You were possibly the only person who should have claimed as inventor.

Spicy AF though.

[Jingle]

Why would Five Guys have burgers *and* fries?

Wait, they have burgers and fries? I thought that was a peanut restaurant.

[Jingle]

Oh. That's boring, mastina touched on none of the actual reasons I'm town.

Mena's claim never comes from one of my partners. (Mechanical)
Mena's lurking in one game to clynch the other thing makes no sense if I'm his scumbuddy. (Gamestate)
My paranoia about Mena in the other game isn't something I can fake. (Subjective)

Also, for bonus points, voteblocking, but I totally would subvert that in this setting because there are almost definitely V/CA people on some of your teams.

[Jingle]

Weak Investigative
Alien
1 Shot Loyal Neighborizor
Commuter/FN/?
BP/Hated/? Inventor

V

Strongman
RB
Rolecop

Doesn't actually seem unbalanced to me at all. A little role heavy for the event, maybe, but not unbalanced.

There's two potential clears, a bunch of false guilties, and an emphasis on Dayplay.

[Jingle]

If we all agree Bitmap is the last scum, what do people think of doing a massclaim today just in case we're wrong?

Eh. It's not like there's anything left to hide. VT, as you probably know.