Mini Normal 2119 [game over]

[Menalque]

@Menal, you are arguing to me about worlds and gamestates.

Pine hasn't played this game yet. Lynching him changes neither gamestate NOR worlds.

You know what does?

Lynching emps/Pine

And if that flips scum, ya'll lynch menal next.

But it does do that icon: if Pine!town then we have to decide if there actually were all 3 scum simultaneously pushing on looker against a scum wagon

Because that is terrible optics

It is possible because there was a lot of difficulty with chem!wagon, but it seems unlikely because it’s so short termist

So lynching pine today and resolving that is massively beneficial for tomorrow, as it forces greater reconsideration of the wagon and I think implies bussing in bob/dats most likely

[Menalque]

I have deadlines for master’s degrees for about 1 week’s time so that’s taking priority rn

I’m on vacation so I have a little more time, but expect diminished presence from me until the 1st of March

actually, could you put me on VLA pls duck?

Will try to keep up with the thread from here but I’m not planning to go back to reread anything I missed until after all applications are submitted

good luck

Thanks!

[Iconeum]

But it does do that icon: if Pine!town then we have to decide if there actually were all 3 scum simultaneously pushing on looker against a scum wagonBecause that is terrible opticsIt is possible because there was a lot of difficulty with chem!wagon, but it seems unlikely because it’s so short termist So lynching pine today and resolving that is massively beneficial for tomorrow, as it forces greater reconsideration of the wagon and I think implies bussing in bob/dats most likely

This literally CREATES questions instead of solving the current ones

[Datisi]

I just woke up, what are the last 2 pages
Now I saw the copypaste post and want to lynch Micc again
I'm too tired still for those lomger posts

Pedit: holy shit 5 ppsts in a pedit what is happening

[Iconeum]

We lynch Emps/Micc today. That will be incredibly informative to the current debacle surrounding emps/Micc + Aaron (whom based on play is still +scum equity).

Tomorrow you can clear out those slots and their associatives based on flip and night actions.

Then lynch Pine possibly, to open up the game. I don't see how you are coming to another conclusion with town's best interest in mind here Menal.

[Menalque]

Also, icon, I feel like you’re forgetting that AFF is gonna self resolve? Like if he’s town then scum have to kill him or risk getting guiltied, or if they leave him alive to try and get paranoia lynched then he’ll presumably have clears?

If he’s scum then he’s forced to keep clearing people, and if he fakes a guilty then after they flip town we lynch him

He literally had no result on N1. Explain your 'keep clearing people'.

Sure: explanations

(1) emps is ascetic or commuter or something — aaron investigates elsewhere, able to get a result

(2) aaron was jk’d/rb’d by town — town jk/rb aims elsewhere, Aaron gets a result

(3) Aaron was jk’d/rb’d by scum — seems unlikely, but okay, this is a scenario where he wouldn’t get a result again

If Aaron!scum

(1) Aaron “clears” town/scum we don’t lynch that person and we no lynch I think? Scum has to kill off the conftownies so we just keep getting clears until Aaron does a guilty on someone

(2) Aaron “guilties” scum — we lynch scum, we treat the claim as good, if we get to 3p Aaron gets lynched gg

(3) Aaron “guilties” town — we lynch town and get a free scum lynch out of it, I’ll take a 1:1 exchange

[Iconeum]

I just woke up, what are the last 2 pages
Now I saw the copypaste post and want to lynch Micc again
I'm too tired still for those lomger posts

Pedit: holy shit 5 ppsts in a pedit what is happening

TL;DR

I'm trying to change the lynch from Pine to Micc. Menal is doing his absolute best to stop me under the guise that Pine is actually an informative lynch vs Micc not.

[Iconeum]

(1) emps is ascetic

already hard claimed not ascetic

[Menalque]

But it does do that icon: if Pine!town then we have to decide if there actually were all 3 scum simultaneously pushing on looker against a scum wagonBecause that is terrible opticsIt is possible because there was a lot of difficulty with chem!wagon, but it seems unlikely because it’s so short termist So lynching pine today and resolving that is massively beneficial for tomorrow, as it forces greater reconsideration of the wagon and I think implies bussing in bob/dats most likely

This literally CREATES questions instead of solving the current ones

Yes, questions that NEED to be asked in that situation and sooner rather than later. What questions are permanently settled by lynching micc today? What do we do tomorrow if micc flips town?

If micc flips scum then I think we proceed with lynching pine

What does a micc!town flip change about that scenario? Does that tell us that we’re much less likely to be in a world of 1 scum pushing CW, 1 scum not voting

Does it tell us anything about whether scum was bussing? No

[Iconeum]

Also, icon, I feel like you’re forgetting that AFF is gonna self resolve? Like if he’s town then scum have to kill him or risk getting guiltied, or if they leave him alive to try and get paranoia lynched then he’ll presumably have clears?

If he’s scum then he’s forced to keep clearing people, and if he fakes a guilty then after they flip town we lynch him

He literally had no result on N1. Explain your 'keep clearing people'.

Sure: explanations

(1) emps is ascetic or commuter or something — aaron investigates elsewhere, able to get a result

(2) aaron was jk’d/rb’d by town — town jk/rb aims elsewhere, Aaron gets a result

(3) Aaron was jk’d/rb’d by scum — seems unlikely, but okay, this is a scenario where he wouldn’t get a result again

If Aaron!scum

(1) Aaron “clears” town/scum we don’t lynch that person and we no lynch I think? Scum has to kill off the conftownies so we just keep getting clears until Aaron does a guilty on someone

(2) Aaron “guilties” scum — we lynch scum, we treat the claim as good, if we get to 3p Aaron gets lynched gg

(3) Aaron “guilties” town — we lynch town and get a free scum lynch out of it, I’ll take a 1:1 exchange

1) emps claimed not ascetic
2) aaron wasn't blocked or interfered with
3) same as 2, aaron wasn't blocked or interfered with

[Iconeum]

But it does do that icon: if Pine!town then we have to decide if there actually were all 3 scum simultaneously pushing on looker against a scum wagonBecause that is terrible opticsIt is possible because there was a lot of difficulty with chem!wagon, but it seems unlikely because it’s so short termist So lynching pine today and resolving that is massively beneficial for tomorrow, as it forces greater reconsideration of the wagon and I think implies bussing in bob/dats most likely

This literally CREATES questions instead of solving the current ones

Yes, questions that NEED to be asked in that situation and sooner rather than later. What questions are permanently settled by lynching micc today? What do we do tomorrow if micc flips town?

If micc flips scum then I think we proceed with lynching pine

What does a micc!town flip change about that scenario? Does that tell us that we’re much less likely to be in a world of 1 scum pushing CW, 1 scum not voting

Does it tell us anything about whether scum was bussing? No

Stop scumclaiming

[Menalque]

i tthink pine is poor choice for lynch today. If he doesnt start being active then he will prob simply fail to prod dodge. If prod dodges to day 3 then we can rethink pine.

But for now any townies on pine need to unvote. Pine at the end of teh day is a zero information lynch and has 18% chance of being scum as he has zero ai posts.

This makes me super uncomfortable and feels like it could be setting up pine for a late game mislynch

How are you getting to 18% chance so precisely, bob?

Also disagree that pine is a zero information lynch. I don’t think even icon would say he’s a zeroninformation lynch as much as icon disagrees with me here

[Datisi]

Did bob vote
Is bob voting anywhere

[Menalque]

Also, icon, I feel like you’re forgetting that AFF is gonna self resolve? Like if he’s town then scum have to kill him or risk getting guiltied, or if they leave him alive to try and get paranoia lynched then he’ll presumably have clears?

If he’s scum then he’s forced to keep clearing people, and if he fakes a guilty then after they flip town we lynch him

He literally had no result on N1. Explain your 'keep clearing people'.

Sure: explanations

(1) emps is ascetic or commuter or something — aaron investigates elsewhere, able to get a result

(2) aaron was jk’d/rb’d by town — town jk/rb aims elsewhere, Aaron gets a result

(3) Aaron was jk’d/rb’d by scum — seems unlikely, but okay, this is a scenario where he wouldn’t get a result again

If Aaron!scum

(1) Aaron “clears” town/scum we don’t lynch that person and we no lynch I think? Scum has to kill off the conftownies so we just keep getting clears until Aaron does a guilty on someone

(2) Aaron “guilties” scum — we lynch scum, we treat the claim as good, if we get to 3p Aaron gets lynched gg

(3) Aaron “guilties” town — we lynch town and get a free scum lynch out of it, I’ll take a 1:1 exchange

1) emps claimed not ascetic
2) aaron wasn't blocked or interfered with
3) same as 2, aaron wasn't blocked or interfered with

How do we know Aaron wasn’t blocked or interfered with? It would be awful play to claim a blocking ability as either alignment here

Zero benefit to town and just giving info to scum

[Datisi]

Icon has MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn than us tho

[Iconeum]

How do we know Aaron wasn’t blocked or interfered with? It would be awful play to claim a blocking ability as either alignment hereZero benefit to town and just giving info to scum

I'm telling you. Whatever happened that resulted in a 'no result' didn't occur on Aaron's end.

[Iconeum]

Also disagree that pine is a zero information lynch. I don’t think even icon would say he’s a zeroninformation lynch as much as icon disagrees with me here

Maybe I wasn't clear about my PoV previously.

Lynching Pine, who has a grand total of zero substantial posts, does absolutely nothing for the game other then create additional questions. While there's a scummy lynch available that actually advances gamestate.

I absolutely agree that Pine is a no-information lynch and it appears the only 'information' is for you Menal.

[Iconeum]

Would much rather have we stop wasting time having this discussion that ur not gonna win, Menal, and start piling up votes on Micc.
Push to L-1 and force a claim. Work from there.

[Iconeum]

Whatever happened that resulted in a 'no result' didn't occur on Aaron's end.

Adding to this: barring an actual lie from Aaron himself, if he's for instance a scum!rolecop or smt.

[Datisi]

VOTE: Micc
I need to reread the last 3 pages when I'm not completely dead but i guess this is fine now
Lmao why did emps replace out wtf

[Menalque]

Would much rather have we stop wasting time having this discussion that ur not gonna win, Menal, and start piling up votes on Micc.
Push to L-1 and force a claim. Work from there.

Stop trying to shut me down and marginalise me

You still haven’t answered my points in 1683

[Menalque]

Ps if I die and it’s ever emps!town pine!scum lynch icon the next day

[Menalque]

Also disagree that pine is a zero information lynch. I don’t think even icon would say he’s a zeroninformation lynch as much as icon disagrees with me here

Maybe I wasn't clear about my PoV previously.

Lynching Pine, who has a grand total of zero substantial posts, does absolutely nothing for the game other then create additional questions. While there's a scummy lynch available that actually advances gamestate.

I absolutely agree that Pine is a no-information lynch and it appears the only 'information' is for you Menal.

Can you please address my goddamn point on the fact that pine!town telling us that for our working theory to be correct it means all the scum pushed looker together

Whereas pine!scum means you get your emps lynch tomorrow

Why is it so crucial to you to do things in this order when afaict you don’t TR pine

[Looker]

You think pressure's gonna make him play?

I am not certain that there is anything that will make him play, but I would have preferred to wait and see if it worked.

Why not just let the mod do his job and replace him?

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• I don't like this narrative that Pine should be lynched instead of replaced - what separates him from Tchill? Is this the alternative to lynching scummy players - Lynch All Lurkers? And then when I address it, Micc says I shouldn't say it in thread - wtf.

O wow, so many p-edits

[Iconeum]

But it does do that icon: if Pine!town then we have to decide if there actually were all 3 scum simultaneously pushing on looker against a scum wagonBecause that is terrible opticsIt is possible because there was a lot of difficulty with chem!wagon, but it seems unlikely because it’s so short termist So lynching pine today and resolving that is massively beneficial for tomorrow, as it forces greater reconsideration of the wagon and I think implies bussing in bob/dats most likely

This literally CREATES questions instead of solving the current ones

Yes, questions that NEED to be asked in that situation and sooner rather than later. What questions are permanently settled by lynching micc today? What do we do tomorrow if micc flips town?

If micc flips scum then I think we proceed with lynching pine

What does a micc!town flip change about that scenario? Does that tell us that we’re much less likely to be in a world of 1 scum pushing CW, 1 scum not voting

Does it tell us anything about whether scum was bussing? No

None of this matters a whole lot.

Pine!scum still means Micc is lynched tomorrow.
Micc!scum good chance of Pine lynch tomorrow.

By lynching Micc first you are narrowing the actual scumpool rather then killing off an inactive slot.

IF wrong about Micc, then you need to start worrying about other scenarios and maybe kill Pine to open them up. Not the other way around.

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TL;DR:

Lynching scummy players is better then lynching inactive players at this stage. Scummy players with bad asso to the scum lynch.
And seeing the resistance here to Micc wagon resembling the resistance I had yesterday to chemist wagon, I'm not exactly being persuaded.