Open 773: Masons and Mafia: RVS Awards (GAME OVER)

[Miss Lane]

Miss Lynch is overreacting. Auro has a perfectly reasonable response to what she's been posting

I'm curious about why Miss Lynch hasn't reacted to this.

Why?

[Miss Lane]

I think it's pretty clear I was overreacting. I'm just not sure how to react in a manner that allows me to make the plays and observe player's reactions to it without having so much attention drawn to everything I do that anything I might have been going for is lost by shear familiarity.

[Miss Lane]

I also don't necessarily disagree with the fact that the way you reacted is reasonable or even unexpected - I actually very much expect it, especially from players who may or may not be putting a whole lot of thought into the way the things they do affect the game at this moment in time (which is not something I particularly expect from any player at this early in day one). It just majorly fucks with anything I'm trying to do.

[Auro]

You said I was being dense, etc, no? Rhul said I had a "perfectly reasonable response".
You said it's hard to believe I can scumread you given your stances. Rhul said you could go either way (which implies she isn't townreading you, which you say you must be).
So, double standards much?

[Miss Lane]

I don't think you legitimately scumread me

[Miss Lane]

I don't think you legitimately scumread me

At least not in any meaningful way. You scum reading me also has little to do with what I was frustrated with.

[Auro]

Well, I'm dumb, I don't really know how else I could have frustrated you. Maybe I'll read our conversation again and try to figure it out. Do tell me post game.

[Miss Lane]

Err.... I don't know that I was planning on talking about this this early, but since other players seem to be at standstill, I'll share what I have since it doesn't seem to be all that large of a deal anyways. The way I saw it at the time there were four major groups of people. At least one of them was likely scum. It goes a bit like this: TSE defended Auro. Those are groups one and two. I think TSE has the highest likelihood of any player in this game to be town, by the way, so I don't think this contains scum. Players voting for TSE seemed a bit strange to me, because TSE seems to have a solid town play this game. Players reacting to those votes by voting players voting TSE also seemed kind of strange because I guess I could see where voting TSE could be acceptable. Without saying too much, I wanted to vote Alkaline since he was in the group most likely in my opinion to contain scum so that I could see who felt strongly about what position they held. But then the game became about me placing votes and explaining everything I did which is very much counter to anything I was doing.

[Auro]

I came to a different conclusion in that most of his questions, such as the majority of post 142, appear to be made with the intent to look like he is questioning, but without the intent to truly understand. His last question in post 142, for example, is a leading question with only one "correct" answer and yet he utilizes it to make it seem as if TrueSoulEnergy is Mafia "walking the line" with Auro until he needs to cast him aside.

He does something similar to Miss Lynch in post 322 using the word "weird" instead of being straightforward with assigning alignment. One could say he is guilty of doing something similar to what he accused TrueSoulEnergy doing to Auro in that he is keeping his options open with regard to Miss Lynch (and it is not lost on me the humor in that he is lightly attacking Miss Lynch for attacking Auro and not voting him whilst keeping his vote on Egix96).

I thought you were referring to 143 as a question and thought you were misreading phrasing. I should have read that paragraph closer, sorry about that. Looking back, I think you were actually referring to post 140.
Anyway, it still didn't bother me at the time, and I'll explain.
I don't read that question ("What if Auro does the scummiest shit ever") as a leading question to nail TSE. It feels more like question from incredulity at TSE's stance of calling me a functional IC for D1 from one post. "Seriously?" and " " seem to be relevant context-setters here. Also notice he moved off TSE here:

ugh that is really different from here. plus, I'm getting reminded of town TSE during marathon weekend + me scumreading him for his playstyle rather than it being truly scum-indicative.

unvote

Given the context and his eventual shift from the TSE attack, I don't think that "leading question" can only have scummy intent.
You say he's "lightly attacking Miss Lynch" - he states in 432 that he isn't scumreading her, rather just disagrees with her scumhunting methods? His interactions with her are mostly appeals to tone it down. I don't find any unreasonable posts. His keeping the Egix vote isn't inconsistent with his posts around ML. Also, what does "keeping his options open" mean? How does one differentiate between scum "keeping their options open", versus town making light pushes but hasn't definitively sorted a slot yet?

My latter argument still holds, in that he seems generically towny in a holistic sense.

[Miss Lane]

Like if I spend the whole time talking about why I voted Algy, it takes any pressure off of any scum to figure out why I voted Albany because I've already discussed it. IDK how to explain it and it sounds super stupid when I do, but I did now.

[Auro]

Miss Lynch, assuming all actual groups (Masons, VTs, Scum) are playing properly, the groups you notice in game will be a mixture of these groups.
You're going into like 4-level associations (Auro<-defended by TSE<-Attacked by XYZ<-Attacked by ABC), each link in that chain becomes weaker and weaker.
It's easiest if you simply vote for people with individual scum equity and wait for scumflips before associative hunting / grouping.
Not being transparent in your thoughts make it harder for others to develop a read on you... since it's not difficult for scum to take random stances and refuse to explain them, while the nuances in town stances help recognize town.

[Auro]

pressure off of any scum to figure out why I voted Albany

Why would scum bother, if no one's joining you? It's kind of more useful to present your case, get people to sheep it, and then watch scum react to it, no?

[Miss Lane]

Miss Lynch, assuming all actual groups (Masons, VTs, Scum) are playing properly, the groups you notice in game will be a mixture of these groups.
You're going into like 4-level associations (Auro<-defended by TSE<-Attacked by XYZ<-Attacked by ABC), each link in that chain becomes weaker and weaker.
It's easiest if you simply vote for people with individual scum equity and wait for scumflips before associative hunting / grouping.
Not being transparent in your thoughts make it harder for others to develop a read on you... since it's not difficult for scum to take random stances and refuse to explain them, while the nuances in town stances help recognize town.

I agree with everything you say here, but with respect it does help to find scum by seeing if there is irrational support for a player defended, regardless of whether or not the link between two said players necessarily contains scum.

Additionally, I am very unconcerned with my ability to town side without the help of anyone else if necessary, this is easily one of my greatest strengths, in my opinion.

[Miss Lane]

pressure off of any scum to figure out why I voted Albany

Why would scum bother, if no one's joining you? It's kind of more useful to present your case, get people to sheep it, and then watch scum react to it, no?

Not presenting a case vs presenting a case is part of why it's a sorting mechanism. If I give a valid reason as to why I think Albion should be lynched, then anyone voting with me is either merely giving me a shot or thinks I have a bit of a case. But if my Albacore vote contains nothing of the sort, then any votes that join me on voting him have their own reasons for voting him. It's my own way of encouraging people to come out of the closet on certain reads they might be holding. It also gives scum a chance to vote for him, because my vote gives his wagon more equity and indicates that town might be more willing to vote him than they previously thought. An influx of votes on Alfred with little to no explanation would quickly indicate he is likely town.

[Auro]

Am I familiar with your main?

[Miss Lane]

Somewhat.

[Auro]

Any thoughts you're willing to share about other slots?

[Miss Lane]

I like Sujimi and Rhul.

[Egix96]

I've played with Egix before and he obvtowns as town - I checked a recent towngame of his and while it wasn't *that* evident, I could still see he was gamesolving.
He's making mostly empty points here and his posts come off as forced to me, which is pretty telling.

I don't really know what's up with me this month, I feel like I'm in the middle of a big slump. It might be because of my recent winning streak going to my head, dare I suspect.

Generally it reads to me that she's genuinely inquisitive rather than trying to advance an agenda with it.
Ofc if it turns out that she is in fact an alt rather than a new player then this read loses some of its value.

Would you please point out the specific questioning? This was my request, as you already stated the generality.

Like, all of it??

[Auro]

I don't really know what's up with me this month, I feel like I'm in the middle of a big slump. It might be because of my recent winning streak going to my head, dare I suspect.

If you're town I'm gonna need you to get deep into the game and obvtown, buddy
Was it a scum winning streak?

[Egix96]

104 - I find it a little bit odd that Klick seemed openly indifferent towards the Teeky wagon although TSE, whom Klick was voting at the time, was on there. I feel as though Klick would be more opposed to the wagon in that case.

I'm confused by this point. Could you explain it in a different way?

I think I'll keep my vote where it is for now.

It's like this:
> You are voting TSE
> TSE is voting CheekyTeeky
> So unless you think that TSE is bussing, then that implies Cheeky is a mislynch
> You say: "I will admire this wagon from a distance."
> Instead of, perhaps, "Nah, I'm not voting that, not while TSE's on there."

The problem is that I now realise I had the order of events mixed up a bit - TSE actually voted Cheeky before you voted TSE, not the other way around as I previously thought.

[popsofctown]

Also pops
What have you done so far in this game, if anything, that you wouldn't do as scum?
I realise this is a self-meta question and some people hate that but humor me pls :3

Auro is wrong, selfmeta is awful.
I wouldn't have drunkposted as much as I did. I only drunkposted once as scum last year, and it was a rather deliberate "I actually think this might throw away this game for me but I can't have this become a trust tell for me" but there were times I put posting off because it was a scumgame and I think there is slip risk. In the right context I would still catch up on the game but this will be one of those dumber unverifiable elements of selfmeta, I had a new deck idea I wanted to try in Legends of Runeterra and I like playing Legends of Runeterra with a drink but I actually had to put off trying it any that evening because this was a game I needed to solve. As scum I would have just caught up the next day. As scum sick and tired of playing Hecarim again because I can't think of anything better maybe I push the boundaries of how much I dare to drunkpost, maybe I still don't and watch youtube, it'd be harder for me to guess.

I think I also would not have approached this game as slowly as I have as scum, I think I'd have come up with a mislynch informercial or be bussing a partner for cred by now. On that note, Alduskkel did something that made me want to UNVOTE: . Sorry Sujimichi

[popsofctown]

104 - I find it a little bit odd that Klick seemed openly indifferent towards the Teeky wagon although TSE, whom Klick was voting at the time, was on there. I feel as though Klick would be more opposed to the wagon in that case.

I'm confused by this point. Could you explain it in a different way?

I think I'll keep my vote where it is for now.

It's like this:
> You are voting TSE
> TSE is voting CheekyTeeky
> So unless you think that TSE is bussing, then that implies Cheeky is a mislynch
> You say: "I will admire this wagon from a distance."
> Instead of, perhaps, "Nah, I'm not voting that, not while TSE's on there."

The problem is that I now realise I had the order of events mixed up a bit - TSE actually voted Cheeky before you voted TSE, not the other way around as I previously thought.

On my reread I noticed that Klick was townread Y'shtola on this wagon, so while I was partial to your idea the first time that fact check made me think his halfsies position made more sense

[Egix96]

I don't really know what's up with me this month, I feel like I'm in the middle of a big slump. It might be because of my recent winning streak going to my head, dare I suspect.

If you're town I'm gonna need you to get deep into the game and obvtown, buddy
Was it a scum winning streak?

I can't promise anything, but okay

And no, you could have actually checked that for yourself but here you go anyway:

Games that ended in 2020
Game title Role Fate Won/Lost
Newbie 1975: Zen Vanilla Town Survived Won
Newbie 1977 Mafia Rolecop Survived Won
Mini Normal 2115 Town 2-shot Vigilante Neighbour Survived Won
Micro 920: Less Pressure Mafia Goon Lynched D1 Won

Also there's this MU game if you would count it.

pedit: #fairenough

[Sujimichi]

Like, all of it??

If you could provide enough so that I understand what specifically you are finding genuine, I would appreciate it.