Mini Normal 2119 [game over]

[Slaxx]

which other claims, exactly?

Yours and Icons.

No clue why my play is under fire here. I made the right call last night and softed both protective and rolestop yesterday during the day phase. Meanwhile, you roleblocked aaron instead of emps N1 and Icon misread his result, and somehow my existence in this game is suspect? Screw that. I don’t know why you all are giving each other the benefit of the doubt but refusing to extend that to me as well, despite my play being way more rational and consistent than either of you.

[Slaxx]

My rational makes perfect sense. I came out defending Aaron D2. Then I misread pine and thought the way Aaron was bouncing around his lynch was weird, and assumed he was scum with Pine. When Pine flipped town, I went back to my original Aaron read and protected him. AND IT WAS THE CORRECT CALL. So I’m not for sure why I’m catching so much grief compared to someone who supposedly made a bad roleblock N1 and someone who was like “lol misread result”

Like really?

[Slaxx]

now, i kinda fucked up
i mean obviously i fucked up by blocking the cop aye but i also fucked up because i thought that since i blocked the cop icon wouldn't have been able to see the cop visit his target
which
is not quite the case

This really makes more sense than my play? Are we ready to commit to that?

[Slaxx]

Sorry I’m not trying to be mean, I like both of you, but Christ the double standard is a bit ridiculous. And lynching me based on setup spec when we know the setup is lulzy is cheeeeeeeap.

I think it’s possible one of you has pocketed the other.

[Micc]

So there's two mysteries to solve with the claims as they stand:

1. Datisi's roleblock on Aaron did not stop Icon's track/follow from giving a result, but Aaron still received NO RESULT. There would still need to be something in play such as a rolestopper or Alien targeting emps/Micc

or me being ascetic

.

2. AaronFrost was nightkilled through Slaxx using a rolestop on him. There would need to be a Strongman or a blocking ability used on Slaxx.

So yes, the easy solution is Slaxx lying. His slot actually rolestopped emps/Micc N1 and didn't rolestop AaronFrost. That N1 action would make sense for scum as emps/Micc was most likely place for a Cop to land, and scum were possibly informed that a Cop exists by way of Chemist. Moving Slaxx to scum also shifts the balance of power to be reasonable. maybe not balanced, but reasonable.

Brainstorming other solutions:

1. Scum have a non-slaxx rolestopper or Alien who targeted emps/Micc N1. They also have a strongman or blocking ability which was used on Slaxx. This makes sense again because emps/micc is a good place for a scum rolestop or alien to land, also that Slaxx's soft claim made it clear he needed to be blocked N2 to get the kill through. They would have had to table the rolestop/alien action N2 in order to make a nightkill unless multitasking was in play. All of these possible scum actions could manifest themselves as a JOAT also.

2.

emps/micc is ascetic and scum have a strongman or blocking ability which was used on Slaxx.

This is crossed out because I'm not ascetic.

3. One or both of Icon/Datisi are lying about their claim. Datisi lying, but Icon town is basically impossible on account of Datisi's N2 roleblock not being used for shenanigans. Icon lying but Datisi town, is possible but unlikely for the non-mechanical reasons.

i'm not done brainstorming yet but have to step away for a bit and am posting incomplete so that my garbage laptop doesn't eat my post while i'm gone.

[bob3141]

My rational makes perfect sense. I came out defending Aaron D2. Then I misread pine and thought the way Aaron was bouncing around his lynch was weird, and assumed he was scum with Pine. When Pine flipped town, I went back to my original Aaron read and protected him. AND IT WAS THE CORRECT CALL. So I’m not for sure why I’m catching so much grief compared to someone who supposedly made a bad roleblock N1 and someone who was like “lol misread result”

Like really?

So what your saying is that you made the call town should of made. And that scum knew aaron was a cop and that pine was a simply lurking town?

[Datisi]

1. Datisi's roleblock on Aaron did not stop Icon's track/follow from giving a result, but Aaron still received NO RESULT.

This is not a contradiction btw
Because icon would still see the unsuccessful cop investigation even though Aaron was blocked

[Iconeum]

slaxx

who are the scum?

[Micc]

Datisi:

When an X-Shot role is blocked, the shot is not refunded; the player still counts as having "paid for" their role use, but the actual role is otherwise considered to not have happened

(so, e.g., Trackers and Watchers will not be able to see the blocked role being used)

.

this extends to non X-shot roles too. I've got a question out to the worst to confirm the interaction works consistently with the wiki in this game. still waiting for response on that

[Datisi]

Good luck with that, Micc.

[Datisi]

ok my response to Slaxx would be sorta

okay? i fucked up by blocking Aaron. Good job. Like at the time of night one, he was one of the more suspect slots having been pushing Looker instead of chemist. It *made sense*. The fact he just so turned out to be the goddamn Cop is a different story.

like earlier you literally said you think me and Icon are town
and now you're sorta weird backtracking that by calling out my *in retrospect* bad NA choice? Which at the time I think made perfect sense?

and it's not only "setup spec"
your slot was pushing looker while hiding behind my case
we've been discussing how many scum were on wagon and your name was coming up
like your lynch would definitely not be a "setup spec lynch"

[Slaxx]

My rational makes perfect sense. I came out defending Aaron D2. Then I misread pine and thought the way Aaron was bouncing around his lynch was weird, and assumed he was scum with Pine. When Pine flipped town, I went back to my original Aaron read and protected him. AND IT WAS THE CORRECT CALL. So I’m not for sure why I’m catching so much grief compared to someone who supposedly made a bad roleblock N1 and someone who was like “lol misread result”

Like really?

So what your saying is that you made the call town should of made. And that scum knew aaron was a cop and that pine was a simply lurking town?

With a pine town flip, how exactly do I get towns opinion on my stop? This makes zero sense.

[Datisi]

oh yeah that
icon literally never misread his result
he called his role by the wrong name but he never misread his result
and considering he knew both (1) what action i used (follower) and (2) who i targeted (tracker) he's not fakeclaiming

[Slaxx]

ok my response to Slaxx would be sorta

okay? i fucked up by blocking Aaron. Good job. Like at the time of night one, he was one of the more suspect slots having been pushing Looker instead of chemist. It *made sense*. The fact he just so turned out to be the goddamn Cop is a different story.

like earlier you literally said you think me and Icon are town
and now you're sorta weird backtracking that by calling out my *in retrospect* bad NA choice? Which at the time I think made perfect sense?

and it's not only "setup spec"
your slot was pushing looker while hiding behind my case
we've been discussing how many scum were on wagon and your name was coming up
like your lynch would definitely not be a "setup spec lynch"

Fair enough on not just setup spec, but that sure seems to be what broke the dam.

And why not Emps N1? That seems like the obvious choice?

To answer both of you: I’m not for sure either of you are scum. I’m saying you should be suspicious you are accepting each other’s claims at face value, and you need to prepare yourself for that if I’m the lynch today. I need to go back and read from Day 2 to see if your claims fit with your play.

For example, I’m going to be looking at how Dati treated the Aaron claim of a no result yesterday knowing they got blocked. I’ll also be looking back to see if Ico’s misread and realization is apparent in any shifts and how they approached Aaron.

[Micc]

Good luck with that, Micc.

hey now, it took some time but i got us the answers to the interactions where Aaron was interfered with by rolestop, alien, ascetic. and it turns out rolestop and alien are different in this game than what the NRG intended to be true because the NRG didn't have them explicitly defined.

I expect this will be answered as well, and I should have asked it publicly to begin with so here it goes:

@the worst
If these roles existed in this game and with the assumption that there are no other relevant abilities in play:
1. If a Cop's investigation gets blocked by a Roleblocker, will a Tracker who targets the Cop see the investigation?

[Slaxx]

oh yeah that
icon literally never misread his result
he called his role by the wrong name but he never misread his result
and considering he knew both (1) what action i used (follower) and (2) who i targeted (tracker) he's not fakeclaiming

I’ll go back and read but I thought there was ambiguity about the nature of his role that was a direct result of misinterpretation.

[Slaxx]

My rational makes perfect sense. I came out defending Aaron D2. Then I misread pine and thought the way Aaron was bouncing around his lynch was weird, and assumed he was scum with Pine. When Pine flipped town, I went back to my original Aaron read and protected him. AND IT WAS THE CORRECT CALL. So I’m not for sure why I’m catching so much grief compared to someone who supposedly made a bad roleblock N1 and someone who was like “lol misread result”

Like really?

So what your saying is that you made the call town should of made. And that scum knew aaron was a cop and that pine was a simply lurking town?

This is bugging me, you should elaborate on this.

I’m confused as to how I’m supposed to prod for town’s opinion after a flip but before a night action.

If you mean before a flip, I literally did that and Ico was the only real input I got if I recall. And he suggested protecting himself, which... come on. He has to say that regardless.

[Datisi]

@slaxx

because, in a game i recently modded, scum!emps got blocked by a town roleblocker and got lynched the day afterwards. I thought that if emps rolled scum here there was no way in hell he was doing the kill after that happened, especially after GL kept insisting emps never makes it to endgame is bugs flips red.

mechanically, Icon's role is confirmed because he, again, knew WHO i targeted and WHAT i did. "well he can be a scum tracker/follower." iconeum was THE driving force behind the bugs wagon. he is not scum in this game. I've played against scum!icon. This ain't it, chief. this ain't it.

ah yes, you mean me going from saying Aaron is my strongest SR at the start of Day 2 to literally doing anything i possibly can to divert away from his lynch once he claimed?

also, if you want a crumb, i've got that too.

[Slaxx]

Dati, that’s fine. I don’t remember that transition, but if that’s the case, yes, it makes me less worried about your claim. If you want to produce the crumb, be my guest. The Aaron interaction is way more important. I can’t check now because I’m at work.

[Datisi]

Me before Aaron claimed Cop:

Spoiler:

datisi who's your top scumread right now?

probably Aaron.

pedit: that's a lotta ifs my dude, i don't know

Me after Aaron claimed Cop:

Spoiler:

Oh cool.

Since we have mislynches to spare, I don't think lynching the claimed Cop is optimal anyway. Either they die at Night or get lynched tomorrow - if they're Town we get to use a result, provided they're not RBed again.

This is as simple as it should be actually.

Then why are you voting Aaron lol

Since we have mislynches to spare, I don't think lynching the claimed Cop is optimal anyway. Either they die at Night or get lynched tomorrow - if they're Town we get to use a result, provided they're not RBed again.

Aaron and emps both habe dogshit associates with flipped scum
One of them, if Town, can give us a result
No harm in lynching emps>aaron
This is not difficult

We are not lynching the person that can give us the result tomorrow

Literally the only difference going emps>aaron or aaron>emps is that we lose a cop result if aaron is town

Then we don't waste a lynch on the cop with is literally +++++Town?

Which*
Like i have no problems lynching Aaron tomorrow if emps greens and Aaron is alive
But it's MASSIVELY suboptimal today

Please get your vote off the cop claim lel

to tell you the truth i do believe your claim. A Cop who is informed of a Doctor, so he safely comes out after he has a guilty and thinks to himself "I'll get protected" only to then get killed anyway because the Doc is scum? that's bloody brilliant. However, again, it doesn't matter much what I think

[Datisi]

also i just noticed this perspective slip lmao

Oh cool.

Since we have mislynches to spare, I don't think lynching the claimed Cop is optimal anyway. Either they die at Night or get lynched tomorrow - if they're Town we get to use a result,

provided they're not RBed again.

[bob3141]

My rational makes perfect sense. I came out defending Aaron D2. Then I misread pine and thought the way Aaron was bouncing around his lynch was weird, and assumed he was scum with Pine. When Pine flipped town, I went back to my original Aaron read and protected him. AND IT WAS THE CORRECT CALL. So I’m not for sure why I’m catching so much grief compared to someone who supposedly made a bad roleblock N1 and someone who was like “lol misread result”

Like really?

So what your saying is that you made the call town should of made. And that scum knew aaron was a cop and that pine was a simply lurking town?

This is bugging me, you should elaborate on this.

I’m confused as to how I’m supposed to prod for town’s opinion after a flip but before a night action.

If you mean before a flip, I literally did that and Ico was the only real input I got if I recall. And he suggested protecting himself, which... come on. He has to say that regardless.

answer the question

[bob3141]

Your saying we should think your town because you voted like should should off.

Why would we think your simply not scum that knew pine would flip town. Scum knows who is town and who is not. Thus scum know which side to be on in any lynch.

[Slaxx]

Your saying we should think your town because you voted like should should off.

Why would we think your simply not scum that knew pine would flip town. Scum knows who is town and who is not. Thus scum know which side to be on in any lynch.

That was not the point of my post. My post was rationalizing why I role stopped Aaron, not why I voted Pine.

[bji]

Ugh I'm so lost with all these role claims.

What is an 'ascetic vanilla town' for?