TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Almost50]

This Town:

[Almost50]

I'm glad you're doing your utmost to help the situation a50

I'm glad you're noticing ank

[Almost50]

@Almost- same question and also can you remind me why you're personally voting DV right now? I kind of want to go back to voting him but I've lost track of your specific reasons for being on him in the vast posting wasteland

In no particular order: kuribo, davesaz. FL

I am voting DV because I decided I'd be kuribo's proxy vote for the day. kuribo is voteless, and I have come to a point I could/would vote certain slots out of spite rather than for an actual scum case. I tried to fight it and gradually became apathetic, so I decided to give my vote to kuribo to use it for today.

Note: There are other reasons to my apathy, such as other games. In the Open Setup they flipped 2 scums and then failed to nail the third and are lynching my TRs instead. In the Normal I can't offer much help to my team representative because I can't keep up with all the noise. In the mini-theme jjh was the N1 kill. Also jjh took a break since he was NK'd and has yet to return, so all this plus how I'm hating certain slots in our game contributed to my apathy.

[Almost50]

A50 because he's just casting judgment from some sort of high ground for no reason.

Who is umds???

[Almost50]

O

n

e

m

o

r

e

n

o

t

e

:

O

n

c

e

s

o

m

e

o

n

e

b

e

c

o

m

e

s

t

h

e

l

a

s

t

p

e

r

s

o

n

s

t

a

n

d

i

n

g

i

n

t

h

e

i

r

g

r

o

u

p

,

t

h

e

y

r

e

c

e

i

v

e

t

h

e

L

M

S

a

b

i

l

i

t

y

a

n

d

t

h

e

g

r

o

u

p

a

b

i

l

i

t

y

b

e

c

o

m

e

s

n

u

l

l

(

b

e

c

a

u

s

e

t

h

e

r

e

i

s

n

o

l

o

n

g

e

r

a

g

r

o

u

p

,

a

s

t

h

e

y

'

v

e

"

w

o

n

"

t

h

e

r

o

l

e

)

.

Damn! And there was I plotting to take out my hood partners and then silence the NK target so they can't say my name in the hereafter!

[Almost50]

VOTE: nom

I think this is correct. If nom is Town she can Vengekill whomever she sees fit. If she's scum then we have no say on whom she kills anyway.

[Almost50]

you've been an asshole to Ank

>I< have been an asshole to Ank?? Is it me who keeps calling her scum for absolutely no reason? Is it me who has a hard on to go against logic and always say/do the wrong thing at the wrong time?

And I don't care what chenn said. chenn isn't exactly a player I'd sheep, dead or alive.

[Almost50]

Oh, and @EC: Your reads suck (aside from your change of heart about me). FL is TOWN, and Maria looks like Scum to me now. I am not pursuing the case on Maria because I know I always find a way to SR her, just like your Ank will always find a way to SR me of late. I still didn't fully get over that game with multiple hoods where Ank replaced in and decided to SR me just because, and even claimed she has a semi-perfect record if reading me, and then she NK'd and mastina tunneled me for it.

[Almost50]

I still don't want a nom lynch, I feel like I'm quacking in the wind on that one.

My reason to vote nom is NOT that I SR her, because I don't. My reason is that she is Vengeful, and I think we need to make use of that extra -Town motivated- kill.

In a world were nom is Scum *not my current world); that's a good lynch (a lynch on Scum is always a good lynch).
However, in the world I'm in it still is good to lynch Town!nom and have her Vengekill a SR (I'd suggest someone in particular, but I don't want to affect nom's decision in case I'm wrong).

[Almost50]

If you really rely on me to make a good shot here you've lost your mind

You know what

I think scums think they know where I would shoot, so they think it's safe to vote me.

Perhaps it changes how I view this whole game...

Vengekill Maria. I will either be called a hero or a fool until the next TM is upon us. (If she flips Scum it was a JJD call. If she flips Town it was AP.)

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

Just to give both nom & kuribo their space to try and convince me/us otherwise.

[Almost50]

I'm actually starting to regret requesting the roleblock on our neighborhood and abstaining from vote removing, because just putting the game at one less vote to lynch is something that would help us a lot right now while the game is this apathetic.

Someone doesn't even know how it works, but they insist they know how to play mafia and are trying to force their reads and views too.

On another subject:

@nom: DO NOT EVEN THNIK about targeting kuribo. DON'T.

You know what? Take ME out. Give Ank the bloody Vig shot.. I don't care anymore. This game has already turned into a circus and I congratulate the scum team not only for winning here but for managing to win the whole tournament.

It all started with some idiot who thought it was cool to break the rules and use a trust tell in a bloody tournament game. That -well deserved- modkill turned the game into a night start, only with scum being more informed than they would have been had it really been a night start.

Then another idiot thought it was funny to kill the towniest player's motive by making them voteless. Then that idiot hoined forces with another idiot into making our hood PT totally useless by practicing their favourite hobby of calling me scum for lolz.

And here we are.

So, I

really

don't want us to win this now. At least it guarantees Chenn and -likely- Ank not winning.

P.S. Right now the only reason I don't want Ank lynched is because I TR what EC says through her.

So, yeah, non should be the lynch to make our resident genius Ankamius feel better, and nom should vengekill me to further help Ank lead us to

demise

victory. It also gives her a Vig shot to kill another townie, which would be a remarkable achievement if she really is town. She would have single handedly lead us off the cliff, and my money is she won't even apologize for it post-game. Instead, she will call me, kuribo, and probably DL bad players.

[Almost50]

Maria is my top scum read and I feel I’ve been very vocal about that

VOTE: Maria

Now put your vote where your mouth is and commit to it.

[Almost50]

Tell me, what happened to the wagon on DEB that magically went away?

Get it bloody resurrected and I'll support it. Everybody's "asking" why not this or that, but nobody's actually taking the initiative to vote someone other than nom.

[Almost50]

GDI, Maria. You're making it damn too hard for me to SR you for real this game.

UNVOTE:

Like, ig you are scum, WELL BLOODY DONE

[Almost50]

Well, I should've p-edited, but whatever. I saw Ank voting Maria while I was submitting the previous post, and now I know I don't want to lynch Maria this game. (Hint: That was NOT why I unvoted, as I wasn't even aware Ank had voted her)

[Almost50]

I was writing a long post going into why I had reads the way they are, but I decided not to post it. Instead I'm going to do it this way.

Ankamius

Almost50
Firebringer
Gammagooey
nomnomnom
Panthaleon

davesaz
Flavor Leaf

Dr Easy Bake
kuribo
MariaR

EspressoPatronum

And yes, I'm changing my mind on DEB, somewhat, solely because of his vote on nom today.

I don't think his lynch is at all useful to the game other than the exact same reasons that nom is a good lynch, that being that it relieves a source of tension from the game.

Paint me shocked! Are you sure these are

your

reads??

[Almost50]

I was writing a long post going into why I had reads the way they are, but I decided not to post it. Instead I'm going to do it this way.

Ankamius

Almost50
Firebringer
Gammagooey
nomnomnom
Panthaleon

davesaz
Flavor Leaf

Dr Easy Bake
kuribo
MariaR

EspressoPatronum

And yes, I'm changing my mind on DEB, somewhat, solely because of his vote on nom today.

I don't think his lynch is at all useful to the game other than the exact same reasons that nom is a good lynch, that being that it relieves a source of tension from the game.

In fact, let me try to understand something here.. if I may: You are "unsure" about DEB/kuribo/Maria, and your only confident SR is EP??

[Almost50]

GDI, Maria. You're making it damn too hard for me to SR you for real this game.

UNVOTE:

Like, ig you are scum, WELL BLOODY DONE

I legit blinked at my screen in shock for a good five seconds. I thought I was gonna have to deal with you vote parking me. What changed?

There was a post on the middle of a page that got me thinking "this isn't Scum", and then one at the top of the next page that sealed it, iirc.

[Almost50]

For what it's worth, I agree that nom giving her reads would be helpful.

And I strongly disagree. You see, let's say nom intends to vengekill Scum (let's say she either provides one strong SR or she has a poll of 4-5 players who have 3 Scums in them). Scum are NOT going to lynch nom, and will instead NK her.

Now let's assume she provides a pool of 4-5 players that contains 0-1 Scum in them. It's not only safe to lynch her, but is also safe NOT to NK her immediately and have her lynched in a day or two. It also guarantees they shoot elsewhere if her pool is of 1-2 townies.

So you see, whatever nom's reads are they will always provide SCUM with more data to work with deciding their next move.

Town!nom should keep her cards (what's left of them) close to her chest. Scum!nom isn't gonna tell us the truth anyway.

[Almost50]

Jingle says A50’s last post makes too much sense coming from the old monkey and wants to know if someone hacked his account

Sorry! I somehow forgot what account I was on and thought I was JJD!

[Almost50]

Has it really been 20 hours since anyone posted?
Has anyone else abstained from their neighborhood vote? Important info. Could explain fb.

I obviously did, but our hood was RB'd anyway, so I didn't//don't think you were asking me/Ank.

[Almost50]

I think DEB is similar here to D&D where he was cult leader.
VOTE: DEB

you should know that literally no-one is going to deep-dive him in a 500 page game for you

why/in what way is he similar
DETAILS man

I can confirm what dave is saying, as I was in that game. However, I can't read DEB. I've seen him hyper-shitpost and I've seen him lurk more than that evil something from the opening line of MJ's Thriller, and I can't tell if it's AI tbh.

[Almost50]

In my massclaim, I said the lightning rod is X-shot. FL and I specifically talked about doing this in our hood to make it seem stronger + thus more of a threat to scum.

MASSCLAIM:
Hood: Leading Actors
Members: EP, FL, X Elements
Power: Doctor
LMS: X-shot lightning rod

So, @Ank, how did you know it was a 1-shot

before

anyone in the thread mentioned it?

RED ALERT

Please finish the massclaim:

Almost50 - Ankamius - Chennisden

- Vote Remove / Vigilante

Elements - EspressoPatronum - Flavor Leaf

- Doctor / 1shot Lightning Rod

Firebringer - nomnomnom - Volpe14

- Commuter / Vengeful

Kuribo - MariaR - Panthaleon

- Roleblocker / ???

Dr Easy Bake - Gammagooey - Volxen

- ??? / ???

Davesaz - Deasvail - Farkran

- Inventor / ???

Basically everything is out already so there's no reason to just leave the rest unclaimed

(this message from EC)

Good catch! Good catch indeed!!

The problem is this has like 1163 different explanations!

Like, Scum!Ank slipped? She either knew it from you (EP) or from FL... OR made a logical deduction (how many shots does a Lightening Rod usually get anyway??), or it was mentioned in the Scum PT with NEITHER FL/EP being Scum, or it was her skimming and not paying much attention... etc.

Town!Ank ALSO could've skimmed and made that assumption, or could have deduced it. She obviously would not have learned about it from either of FL/EP nor would she have read in the Scum PT, but she could also be making a WRONG assumption and you really are X shot (where X > 1, which is unlikely but theoretically valid).

Oh, wait! It could have been from her TEAM PT (and it still could be Town or Scum).

I'll spare you what the other 1153 explanations are for now (saving some space and time), but to sum it all up.. this is NAI. (Note: NAI as IT COULD BE TRUE IR IT COULD BE FALSE).

My question here is: WHAT DO SCUM GAIN FROM A LIGHTNING ROD ABILITY?? Do they want to redirect the kill unto themselves?? If so, WHY THE HELL DID THEY SABOTAGE THE COMMUTER HOOD BEFOREHAND? It was their ONLY way to survive without being sus as hell. (Note: FL declared he won't be using the ability and it does look bad on him of he doesn't die either way).

Still, I don't think the designers decided to factor in precisely THAT, and thus still think EP/FL are both Town, hence Ank could not have learned about the 1-shot thing from either, and thus it still is bloody NAI in my book.

P.S. I could very much bend my narrative ANYWAY you like me to. I mean, Yes.. Ank is Scum with FL and you can reread the whole game and find a load of fitting evidence. Or you can assume Ank is Town and EP is Scum trying to capitalize on an honest mistake and you still could find enough evidence to support the case too.

Now another question: Why would Scum want to give ME the Vig shot?? I don't think ANYONE would be able to guess whom I might shoot (not even I tbh) at this point.

So, you see.. this -and more- is all going through my head, and I don't know what to do!

Spoiler:

[Almost50]

I got to the bottom of page 241 so far, and I'm astonished as to how often "my" Vig shot has been brought up (and with directions too. AWESOME).

This is bad because:

A) It's assuming Ank is already today's lynch

And more importantly

B) That I am going to listen to any of you.

The fact is I am most likely NOT going to use the Vig shot at all. Why? Because I don't want to shoot a TOWNIE and thus be directly responsible for putting is in an even worse situation.

Come to think of it,

I know

I'm not shooting anyone if Ank flips Town. I am still undecided if she flips Scum though, but I still don't think she is, which is why I'm not voting there.

P-edit:

@kuribo: You do realize that you're one of the few slots that are keeping me sane still. Now why would I want to shoot you over just about anyone else? I mean, I appreciate the authorization, but I'm afraid I'd have to decline.

[Almost50]

FB what are your team's reads atm

I’ve silenced my team because mafia isn’t healthy for any of them.

You killed all three of them???

[Almost50]

A50

Please have skitter read as far back as she can stomach too please

skitter is not going to read this any time soon, I'm afraid. She has her own game and it looks like they're stuck too. Well, at least they did have a scum flip.

It's jjh that I'm hoping will find the time to read some. Amrun said she would but then I heard nothing from her on the PT either. Maybe if you as specific

precise

questions, but I make no promises.

[Almost50]

@Ank: Aside from the VCA comment I just posted in the hood, I see a whole lot of illogical assumptions in your 6175/6176, so let me ask you for some explanations:

1- Why would Scum dave try to give chenn an invention twice in a row?
2- Why would Scum kuribo block the invention twice in a row?

P.S. Note that it was Maria who suggested targeting dave, so no it wasn't planned beforehand

In fact, it would have been even more helpful if we could learn which happened first, but discussing timestamps isn't allowed.

3- Did the scum also foresee Elements was going to use a trust tell??
4- If the answer to #3 is no (as it should be), do you think a team that has kuribo, FL & dave in it came into the game without a plan? Do you really think they played "as it may"??

5- Why would Scum nom commute you at all, let alone twice (or was it thrice?)
6- When was the last time you saw FL explicitly defending a Scum p?? Like, I could buy FL Scum with MARIA (FoSing but not really pushing her), but FL defence of nom is just not him defending a Scum p.
7- this has been brought up before, but why would Scum kuribo complain about Element's trust tell in public rather than report it in secret?

I may have more upon a reread, but that's about what I do have right now

[Almost50]

A50, what are your reads looking like?

Unfortunately, I don't have a solve. Not even close. All I know is Ank's proposed solve (FL/kuribo/dave/nom) + EP are my top 5 TOWN reads. I also know lynching FB is mechanically safe since nom already got the LMS (that's the one reason not to lynch in a hood with only 2 players remaining), and that DEB is doing jack shit I don't even care if he is Town. I also get scum vibes from Panth (although skitter was of the opinion Korina was Town before he replaced out, but she hasn't read Panth). Maria I am having a hard time SRing. She sounds genuine, although I still question the decision to block dave and I disliked the reason why she did it a second time. Finally, I don't see Ank as Scum here. I think this just her living in another universe. I have no idea how EC is reading the game, but I also saw him having an off game before.

If I was you I'd turn to Jingle for the best mechanical action(s) to take here.

Note: I did notice the mutual defense of Ank, but I also did defend her. The proposed "slip" just isn't a slip any more than yours is. Like, a scum slip -in my book- is something like what Ceph did in that game, knowing what role his p had when roles didn't show in the flip, or as BEF once did posting in the main thread what was supposed to be a post for the Scum PT (and it was clear enough, not the kind of slip EP proposes you committed).

You know what? You go find me an incident in a recent game of yours (under ANY of your accounts) that you used the comma instead of typing "or" just to put EP's suspicions to rest for good.

[Almost50]

look at this post from Maria
it's a GOOD post
everyone should make posts like this post

@MariaR why does an Ank scum flip make me town and FL scum?

Interactions vote pushes etc. I don’t think you/Ank are SvS.

Gobble suggests we lynch MariaR or lynch nom+venge MariaR to test it. A MariaR scum flip strongly suggests FL is scum.

See, this is the kind of stuff that makes me take 2 steps back from my read on you. Because it’s clear you’re a smart guy EP, yet the conclusions you come to are... what? The ‘slip’ in question isn’t even a slip. Because I was already voting Ank so I can’t move the vote. You were already voting Ank too, so it doesn’t make any sense? Plus, I think you’re the only one who believes this theory when you have others telling you to drop it.

When Ank finally starts getting real pressure you unvote and turn this ‘slip’ into a big deal. Do you see where I run into an issue with all this?

@gooey: There. I made one exactly like Maria's. How you like me now?

[Almost50]

OK. So EP saw it wasn't a slip and that you did it before in the hood.

Now I'm back to wanting to lynch nom (and again I TOWN READ HER) but it should bring the whole Town to a much closer status to unity, plus it gives her (a TOWNIE) the chance to aim for Scum.

@Ank: EC says to lynch nom today, but you're adamant to go against that and suggest we lynch her when there's only 1 scum left. I don't follow. Are you playing your own game or are you trusting EC? It's one or the other.

P-edit: Fine. So that should put that issue to rest.

[Almost50]

almost50 the chances nom shoots who u want (mariar) feels very low.

I don't really care whom she shoots, as I don't have access to the mod PT. My point is nom would do what she thinks is right. Now if she is Scum that's a scum lynch that should give us plenty of associative too, so it's all good.

[Almost50]

it's an investigative that scum can't control. That's reason enough.

1- Do we know it was an investigative ability??
2- Assuming we did, why not give it to one of their own? Even better, why not give it to the NK since it's a wasted shot anyway?

[Almost50]

4 - I would think a lot of scumteams would play that way, at least focusing more on setting future things up more than actually enacting a specific plan. Surviving is the most important thing, and with the amount of chaos that is already starting to blow up throughout day one, it really doesn't take a whole lot more than indulging in the chaos without acknowledging each other as potential scum to maybe swing the lynch towards scum, since that kind of thing is very hard to accurately parse even when most slots are flipped later in the game.

Then you don't know these 3, and specifically FL. I've been Scum with him, and I've modded Scum him, and I know he does plan ahead. I can't be as confident about dave (I've never been scum with him nor have I modded him as Scum) but he's an analytical player, so I would very much expect him to plan ahead too. As for kuribo, I think this is my 2nd (maybe 3rd) game with him, so he's the least know character to me of the 3, but he's old school. 'nough said.

[Almost50]

5 - As far as I know, Volpe was the biggest contributor to commuting me while he was alive. As for night 3, I don't know. The best I have is that it's an easy excuse to look town due to how I played day 3 and my sudden townread of her, combined with the fact that there's no other options that really stand out. Commuting me just makes sense from both alignments.

What do you mean she had no other options? What about Maria (for another option)?

[Almost50]

Can someone remind me why we’re not lynching nom anymore? And it seems like people were pivoting to my biggest townread and have now backed off? I feel like I’m getting

whiplash

.

Not my tempo!

Are you reading this game or are you just meme'ing?

Spoiler:

ANSWER!

[Almost50]

I fail to see how people don’t see Ankamius as scum here.

On her own I might have seen it, but with EC's input that's not feasible to me.

[Almost50]

Am I the only one creeped out by those 3 suddenly showing up when they did

You dave gamma

GDI, Ank! You proposed Scum team was kuribo/FL/nom + "possibly" dave, and now Panth/gooey (+dave) poppomg up creeps you out?? You

obviously

dunno what you're doing or saying, and if you are Town you are the main reason the game got to this weird status.

VOTE: Ank

I've had it with you confident solves that change every 48 hours (on average).

As I said, of Ank flips Town I am NOT going to shoot anyone. If she flips Scum I am

still considering my options

.

[Almost50]

I admittedly haven't done the math on shooting anyone but it just feels like..

See? THAT is the problem with most players nowadays. You should know better than to "feel" rather than "calculate" (with you being an older generation player).

When I play this game I try to use

my brain

much more than "my heart & gut".

Assuming 4 Scums (worst case scenario) we are 8-4 now, and with a mislynch (Ank flipping Town) we'd enter the night as 7-4. Now Scum are going to kill someone, so it's basically MyLo tomorrow. Tell me why I should make it LyLo instead.

Now assume 3 Scums,, so we are 9-3. A mislynch brings it down to 8-3 and with a Scum NK it'd be 7-3. Lynch nom, she flips green and her shot lands on another Townie, and we would be at 5-3 going into the next night, meaning it's LyLo the day after tomorrow. Now -again- explain to me why I should make the game end in that night instead with a bad Vig shot.

So, if we do lynch Ank and she flips Town the best thing to do is sit on my Vig shot. I either eat a bullet at night (and then won't care much what people decide to do) or I am alive still and the Vig shot isn't going anywhere (i.e. I may decide to actually take the risk and shoot someone the next night).

[Almost50]

@A50 -

I really don't see why town with a vig shot won't shoot someone.

Why does Ank's flip impact your decision?

For the bolded, you may want to have a discussion with mastina about the whole principle post-game.

For the underlined, because we have yet to have a single Scum flip, so I can't tell who's Scum and who's "scummy Town".

[Almost50]

aaaaaaaalso while we're on the subject why are you town reading nom? you've mentioned it a lot recently but I don't see the actual reason why you townread her (at least in the 2nd page of your iso)

You may want to search for "nom" all through my ISO, as it started on D1 (skitter tip) and then grew stronger as time went by.

[Almost50]

Um.. erm.. so if I vote Panth I have to declare VLA?? OK, can I VLA for the next 10 minutes??

@gooey: Well, you managed to shake my read on nom by just a little. Now I dunno if I want to vote her or not tbh. I mean, I do.. as I want her to be able to use her venge shot, but dave/kuribo/FL are all against it.

I think I'll wait and see how things develop in the next few hours. I'll vote nom if it's needed for a lynch to go through.

[Almost50]

For now, let me tinfoil (everybody's doing it, so why not me?)

Ank is Scum with nom. Ank wants nom lynched to use her Venge AND to earn a better status at the game. Ank doesn't want to get lynched herself, not because she has a more valuable role, but because her flip will make nom virtually unlynchable and thus scum lose an extra kill.

@DEB: Asl Titus to have a look at this post and let me know if I'm close.

[Almost50]

This game had been a shameful display of incomprehensibly poor and anti town play. Whoever you town folks are, I am disappointed.

This coming from someone who hasn't been doing jack shit is amazing!

Hint: If you're too lazy to play, and the game is not fun for you, the very least you can do is SHUT UP and not complain people aren't changing your diapers for you.

[Almost50]

A guy I used to play with often took a list of everyone's reads to see who floated to the top.

If everyone could humour me for a bit, can you please fill in your top 3 scumreads? It doesn't necessarily have to be a 3-team solve... just 3 ppl who you scumread independently.

Ankamius -
Dr Easy Bake -
Flavor Leaf -
davesaz -
panthaleon -
MariaR -
Gammagooey -
kuribo -
Firebringer -
EspressoPatronum - nom/Ank/MariaR
Almost50 -
nomnomnom -

DEB/Ank/Panth

Today's tinfoil: EP is Scum collecting reads to decide on the NK.

Join us next week in a new tinfoil fresh out of the monkey's ass.

[Almost50]

filming on a big movie set all weekend, currently simulated gunfire in a big expensive shot, but Maria is clearly scum

Maria is in the movie?? I should book my ticket to the premier already.

[Almost50]

Hey Almost50, do you genuinely think Ank is the most likely person here to be scum?

No. I think DEB is, but no one's voting him now and every time someone did the wagon froze.

I think Ank has a good chance to flip red though, because I don't recall her being so flip floppy as Town. She's usually too hard headed (although she's also usually wrong), but here she has literally FoS'd everyone still alive and 7 of those were done over 2 pages of the game, so I think she's trying to create a smoke screen for when she does flip so we can't easily link her to her buddy.

[Almost50]

VOTE: DEB

[Almost50]

Impressive! *Slow clapping*

I'll wait for people to out their votes/actions last night though. We obviously didn't vote to silence anyone.

[Almost50]

I like to obv!Scum in time for you to catch me.

[Almost50]

I'll be back in another 12 hours or so. I hope that's enough time for people to out who as made Loved, who was RB'd & for dave to out his actions/results.

[Almost50]

Impressive! *Slow clapping*

I'll wait for people to out their votes/actions last night though. We obviously didn't vote to silence anyone.

Wouldn't have mattered if you had, I again voted to block your ability (Ank's to be specific) and I told panth so. He agreed that he would be voting Ank as well.

I told y'all two days ago neither of you would be able to use that ability again and I meant it.

Meh, it doesn't matter either way, because even if you didn't,, where else would you have aimed? Your ability only works on HOODS. Correct? You can't -say- RB FB or dave now. Am I correct?

[Almost50]

@dave you need to reveal your JOAT results today

Not gonna happen. When I have info to give town, that will be the time.

VOTE: dave

Voting one of my of my top TRs feels weird even to me, but you're not playing the game on your own. We need the info to make logical deductions and you're not helping.

[Almost50]

Ank "may" have had a point in Maria RBing your invention to explain why it never was given out.

[Almost50]

And for DEB to be scum, you have to believe essentially scum sacrificed Maria to save DEB. I know that’s not the full story, but I find it hard to believe scum save DEB and let Nomnom have a chance at shooting them.

nom (TMVP so far btw) had her shot land on Maria out of nowhere. Scum's worst case scenario was for her to venge DEB still (which would have been better than straight up lynching DEB). If you and AnK are both Town those were her 2nd most likely shots.

[Almost50]

I think scum have to mislynch one of DEB/Gamma or this game’s done for them. EP and I are pretty much masons at this point, DEB is spewed town because of Maria scum, Gamma just got doc’d.

I also find it pretty amusing Scum didn't shoot in FL/EP! If both were Town then one is already dead last night and the other is dead the next night. regardless of whether they used the Lightning Rod. Either way they get rid of the Doctors and have an open filed to play in.

However, with one Scum in FL/EP Scum have only one target to shoot there, and then the Scum "Doctor" not using the Lightning Rod would have been a Scum claim.

Don't forget the Commuters are dissolved, so the Doctors are totally unprotected. Now what Scum passes on that and aims for gooey (where there is a chance he was protected) or dave (where there is a chance he commuted)??

[Almost50]

Revealing my info is helpful only to scum. This is not open for debate.

So is taking the info to the grave with you, DAMN IT!

[Almost50]

That definition of conf is a lot looser than the one I use.
In a high stakes game like this one, deliberate no-kill to get "conf" is a tactic that should remain among the possible.
I'd be willing to call it likely town.

The No Kill wasn't meant to conf!Town anyone. At least that was not the primary motive. The main reason would be to keep the numbers at EVENS.

[Almost50]

In the interest of maintaining complete transparency, it conf!towns Gamma in all but a few niche scenarios. I outlined a few of those scenarios in 6726.

Btw, #3 makes non sense to me at all. Why would Scum FL lie about whom he targeted and still no kill? What does he gain from the two combined?

[Almost50]

Maria + Dave as scum would also lend itself to the theory of 1 scum in the RB and 1 scum in the inventor hoods. I originally thought it was DV, but dave makes sense, too.

Maria fought the DEB lynch tooth and nail, so that is still my preferred lynch for today. JFTR

[Almost50]

OK, but my question still stands (my "other" question): WHAT SCUM shoots in gooey/dave and passes on a 100% guaranteed to succeed kill on you/FL which will ALSO get them rid of the Doctor ability for good?

[Almost50]

I mean, if I was Scum I would have 100% shot between FL/EP last night. Why did scum shoot elsewhere (or why did they holster)?

[Almost50]

To me, shooting between EP/FL would have outweighed keeping the game at evens by far too.

[Almost50]

Geez! I said -in my hood- that I won't be pushing FL because it's harder to lynch him and the game would turn toxic if he was seriously pushed. That is why I wanted to push DEB over FL today although I am actually more confident FL is Scum.

I am now being forced to take a solid stance and out that if I ever got the Vig shot I was going to shoot FL myself. That's how confident I am he is Scum.

One of the main reasons I already outed: He is still alive. More: He is in the Doctors hood which had already lost a member on D1, and any Scum worth 2 grains of salt would want to remove that ASAP, and with the Commuters gone that's

the one

NK option Scum have if FL/EP were both Town.

Then there is the weird FoS by FL on Maria. He even voted her at one point but there was no real danger for the wagon to grow on her and he never once did push her for real.

Both FL & Maria were protecting DEB as if he was their only child. Yet again, Maria outright TR'd DEB while FL used his elusive ways of distraction, pretending to go along with a SR and magically finding a way to defuse the wagon and/or redirect discussion. Even when he did vote DEB he did that.

FL was so worried nom would venge him. He only voted her when she declared she didn't intend to take him out. It was like he didn't expect her to aim for Maria. Even if she decided to venge DEB it would have still netted Scum a Town kill (in nom) which was much better than lynching DEB outright.

FK's opening of the day was so scummy (that IS what triggered my slow clapping post). It's as if I had seen this movie before. I had foreseen everything he said today, including his indirect defence of DEB (reread his posts of today).

For those unfamiliar with FL's Scum play (and even for those who know him but may have overlooked some details) this looks very much like him in New Beginnings (Rick Dalton is FL).

His play around Maria is similar to his play around both me and ben in Mini Normal 2102 (Morality/Pretentious are both FL)

Also this game he was Scum with me (and dave) and I thought dave may want to take another look on any (or all) of them to remind him of Scum!FL's play and tactics.

Maria gave you the solve "in your face" after she got venged, stating we should lynch FL/DEB. Of course, almost every Town player will think it's WIFOM and reverse psychology dictates you get a little bit of your subconsciousness AGAINST the lynch of either of them because of it, which was EXACTLY the purpose of that post. (Why would SCUM who HAVE BEEN VENGED and know they're flipping soon ever post THAT?)

FL's "flip flopping" on me is NOT GENUINE. It's an attempt to replicate his TOWN play around me. However, he never ONCE tried to approach me in a way that looked like he's trying to sort me for real. Hell, he opened today stating I was a SR for him, then when I posted he immediately responded in a way that shows he's not convinced of that declared SR on me.

A50, ugh.

That’s the scummiest post I’ve ever seen, now’s not the time. I’m already waffling on your pancakes

Is this how you (dear reader) would responding to someone you had just stated as one if only 3 slots in your solve?

Panth, Dave, A50 is where I’m at.

There's so much more I could say about why this is SCUM!FLAVOR LEAF, but it would require me to go dig his ISO for more details.

Oh, and his positioning on the Creature wagon too. NOT the fact he voted Creature (although that come into play shortly) but the timing and him being the L-1 (separated by 3 others from Maria on the wagon).

As for the vote itself, you gotta ask yourself why Creature but not DEB? What has DEV done that is so mych different than Creature/Volxen? And to note Volxen/Creature WAS NOT A TOWN SLOT! I mean, if it was then MAYBE I would have bought the reluctance, but the fact it flipped NON-TOWN makes me wonder why he is still actively protecting DEB (and why Maria also did! Wait.. why SCUM!Maria (in case you forgot already) was so against a DEB lynch).

@FL: You had better lynch or NK me. Ank is untouchable for you as long as I'm alive, not because you can't push her, but because if I get my hands on that Vig shot you're dead, and that's a promise.

[Almost50]

I know I'm going to feel like Sisyphus here, but the correct play is to lynch FL. I don't care if EP uses his Lightning Rod or not afterwards (would prefer him not to, but it's his call).

VOTE: FL

P-edit: I am furious at you too, dave. In fact..

VOTE: dave

You are still like 90% Town in my eyes, but hell if I care. You want to play your way? Fine. I'll throw and blame it on you.

VOTE: FL

^^ Actual thought process in real time.

[Almost50]

Why would evens help scum? I hate it when I’m on evens and scum.

Yes, I know. I even have proof from Mini Normal 2102

Subject: Mini Normal 2102: Mafia Private Topic

Here’s my proposal.

We no kill tonight

.

I jail RCE or Mizzy. We don’t gain a mislynch, and

Day 4 we go to 8 player MYLO

.

We also keep the 6 to lynch number instead of bringing it to 5 helping us out

.

Saladman wanting Ben and RCE is good, so RCE is scummy.

Mizzy and Skellen both look pretty scummy right now, tbh, and I think A50 can push someone too.

Ben, I think we should start to “consider” each other as town. I think RCEnigma is semi suspicious of us.

We know there’s essentially a roleblocker out there, and that’s likely Bob.

If I get roleblocked, then I’m fucked with this plan, but I can go down whatever.

Thank you for confirming yourself as Scum to the crowd. I rest my case.

[Almost50]

@FL: I have been Scum with you once too many, I suppose.
I also said I had seen this movie before, so I kinda can predict how you would act/respond.
If you want to get out of it, you probably need to have Jingle/S_S wrote your next few posts and you just copy and paste without editing. Jingle in particular seems to have a way of wiggling himself out of the most desperate of situations, and I don't have a "hands on" regarding how S_S Scum game goes.

[Almost50]

I don’t like Evens. We HAD to do that there. What good does doing that here do? It confirms a townie because of the doctor claims.

Maybe THAT is what you wanted though.. to conf!Town gooey so it makes sense when you NK them next to hand DEB the hood's LMS.

If I’m scum, Gamma has to be scum with me, and furthering that further, Ank also would have to be scum with me because of the 1-shot.

OK.. I'll lynch them both post-game if it makes you feel better.

I actively STOPPED EP from getting killed.

Because you would have had to go next. We already went through why Scum!You didn't shoot EP,, and it's no different than having him mislynched.

I actively pushed for Maria to be killed.

Quote it. I challenge you to find a serious push on Maria in your own ISO. I already addressed that too.

You’re wrong here, though. I AM town.

Really? So you acknowledge -once more- that I am NOT a SCUM READ of yours, or you would not thought I was "wrong" rather than misleading/manipulative/framing.

@Ankamius - I am not scum, save me

Interesting! Especially considering:

Ank/Firebringer is where I’m thinking scum are, but I don’t think they both are.

Which was directly before you declared me/dave/panth as your solve!

OK.. I', going to stop responding. THIS is what I told Ank would happen if I pushed you. In my own words I said something about you being a RadiantCowbells "mini=me".

[Almost50]

You said you couldn’t find me pushing or scum reading Maria anywhere?

I didn't say that. here's what I said:

I challenge you to find a

serious push

on Maria in your own ISO.

And in my main case I said:

Then there is the

weird FoS by FL on Maria

.

He even voted her

at one point but there was

no real danger for the wagon to grow on her and he never once did push her for real

.

His play around Maria is similar to his play around both me and ben in Mini Normal 2102 (Morality/Pretentious are both FL)

I'll even raise you! here are some quotes from Mini Normal 2102: Mafia à la Mode! where we

were scum together

:

A50’s borderline TMI’ing.

I just got some kind of vibe like A50 was talking and he was saying stuff that was like...he KNEW was true, rather than analysis, and the only way he’d know that is if he were scum.

A50 pinged me, and generally when I get a ping from A50 like that, he’s scum.

I have a pretty good track record of catching scumA50 too.

I didn’t get pinged by him before that post, nor did Vex really ping me.

Ben, A50, Skitter team likely.

(And to note both I and Ben were actually your partners..)

Tris’ A50 vote was probably the correct wagon.

Ben, RCEnigma, Salad, replace one with DDL/Skellen/A50 is a solve.

(Again, it was me+FL+ben)

Looking back on it,

i could see a scumAlmost50 trying not to actively push me

in case I catch him

And "I haven’t even finished yet"

However, I'll stop so as not to clog the thread unnecessarily. Everyone's welcome to go check your 3 pages ISO om that game if they like though.

[Almost50]

nomnomnom (7): Gammagooey, DEB, EspressoPatronum, Ankamius, Firebringer, Flavor Leaf, nomnomnom

I can actually see this being mostly if not all town.

Ank/Firebringer is where I’m thinking scum are, but I don’t think they both are.

I feel scum probably were staying off of Nomnom because fear of getting shot.

When you quoted this, you pulled it completely out of context, and omitted the part that I thought this wagon could be all town.

I’m actually leaning more towards this being all town than not, but I said if there is scum in here, it’s in Ank/FB, not that I think they are scum, because they’re down to like my #4/5 slot, if that even.

Aside from nom, everyone on that wagon is still alive. I don't see you appealing to gooey. I don't see you appealing to EP. (and appealing to DEB would be the joke of the century I admit). I see you appealing to one of the 2 slots you apparently "Town read the least" (is that a better phrasing?)

[Almost50]

And that’s when you and Dave magically “lost” the town read on my slot.

Regarding this, Ank can confirm I made my case on you in the hood before the day started. I just wanted to go for DEB first and said that if either I or her was NK'd the other should shoot you to save the Town the hassle of debating with your noisy "toot toot", Denise

Spoiler:

[Almost50]

You also have to take out the fact that I wouldn’t be aware of townYou if I were scum, which doesn’t make sense.

Of course you were not aware of "Town!Me" in that game. I was right there with you in the Scum PT.

And the quotes prove you treated maria the way you treated me (your partner) there. Lots of noise.. lots of FoS whenever convenient, but

no real push

[Almost50]

Yeah, that outburst, especially whole pages of one liners, seemed extremely knee-jerky and frankly panic driven to me. I wonder if it's FL overplaying the defense given his high number of scum wins last year, as if to say scum!FL wouldn't be worried...

No. It's because winning this game wins his team the TM2020 title. (Unfortunately I can't elaborate any further)

[Almost50]

I will continue abstaining

[Almost50]

First and foremost, I did a reread of D1 during the night, and I'm afraid it messed up some of my reads.

I also want to say skitter maybe able to help me out some (now that her own game is over) so that would be swell.

I am inviting you all to first ISO Maria vs GIF on D1 and tell me what you think. I have had FB as possible scum until I did that, but now I think there was too much subtle shading from Maria directed at GIF I don't think they are on the same side. I need confirmation to this from anyone who is willing to do that dual ISOing.

I will hold off giving further reads until I hear back from you & skitter.

[Almost50]

@gooey: Would it still be anti-town to reveal your hood's LMS now?

[Almost50]

I can't speak for Ank, but I certainly do.

[Almost50]

skitter quick feedback (not gonna bother discussing it in my hood first)

1- HI @Ank @EC

2- Ank Town because of FL slip (wanting Maria on her). I had concluded Ank was Town for other various different reasons, but it's always good to be reassured once more.

3- panth is Town bc Vex was Town. As Scum vex wouldn't bother with his handwritten notes.

I'll have other reads updated as soon as we've discussed more (myself and skitter + Amrun.. hopefully)

[Almost50]

skitter quick feedback (not gonna bother discussing it in my hood first)

1- HI @Ank @EC

2- Ank Town because of FL slip (wanting Maria on her). I had concluded Ank was Town for other various different reasons, but it's always good to be reassured once more.

3- panth is Town bc Vex was Town. As Scum vex wouldn't bother with his handwritten notes.

I'll have other reads updated as soon as we've discussed more (myself and skitter + Amrun.. hopefully)

More reads:

4- Upon a read I personally concluded GIF (now FB) must be town. Maria in particular had some weird subtle shading going his way. Now Amrun has confirmed that read and cited 1020 for an example.

5- I had gooey as Town based on D5/D6 (current) posts. However, D1 was suspicious to me, and it rang some bells. skitter found the following though:

Dunn thinks your reasoning for townreading gamma is dumb Ank.
pedit: Me and pant are a hood yes

Which makes gooey Town again.

6- Both myself & skitter agree kuribo is Town here. Her read is a bot weaker than mine (she says "very likely", I say "almost confirmed").

7- dave is like a wold card. I TR him, but I am having trouble parsing his overly cautious/close to chest play in this game. I know he usually doesn't like to show his hand early, but this is a bit taking it over the top here. skitter can't read him.

8- That leaves us with DEB still. I thought D1 game me a very (VERY) weak TR on him upon a reread, but it certainly wasn't enough to even call him a Town lean. skitter agrees with RC that FL/DEB on D5 was fake.

I STILL WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE LMS OF THAT HOOD IS (if it's been posted already, then I'll find out in a bit).

Conclusion: We probably want to lynch DEB today, but I'd be wary of the distinct possibility gooey's the deepwolf (those old guard methodists confuse the hell out of me, and Amrun has forgot how to read him with precision, but both her and skitter are leaning Town on him, so I'll take it)

dave is a wild card 9as I said) so I'm hoping DEB's lynch will end the game so i won't have to pull what's left of my hair out trying to guess what exactly he's up to.

Now let me go see what -little- more you have posted since I was here last

[Almost50]

Hmm... obviously there us NOTHING NEW. (and I am blind)

[Almost50]

So, if you want that in a ranked format for ease:

Off the table for good: Ank/kuribo/FB

Not today: panth/gooey/dave

Todays' lynch: DEB (bit not before the LMS is outed)

[Almost50]

Our LMS is a 2-Shot Bulletproof.

Scum confirmed in DEB/gooey 100%. BP = negating the Vig. I do realize it also negates the scum NK, but it would be absolutely harsh for scum to NOT KNOW that.

Like, imagine that we lynched 2 townies from that hood early and the third was also town. FL knows where the Doc is and can shoot elsewhere, but that would leave them with a BP AND a Commuted slot (Commuters ability) that they may try to shoot (because they don't know) and the NK would fail.

Even now (Commuters & Doctors are no more) it's still be too damn harsh on Scum to have their NK blocked when least expected.

That is probably why FL/Maria didn't want to bus DEB (if he is the scum in there) because then it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to kill gooey. That's also why FL tried to confirm gooey, because him not dying after FL's flip makes him sus AF and thus lynchable because that's the only way he can go.

If there are holes in my thought process I'd like mthem pointed out to me ASAP so that I can reevaluate here.

[Almost50]

How much of your stance on me is still colored by your past grudge against me A50?

Exactly 0%. I already said I had a very weak TR on you upon rereading D1, but BOTH skitter & Amrun also have you as their prime suspect/lynch target.

skitter has FB as the 2nd suspect, while Amrun supports my read that it's very unlikely. Amrun isn't as confident in Town!kuribo, but skitter has him in her top tier TRs.

In short, all active slots of my team agree that it looks like you are scum here.

[Almost50]

Titus VCA

THAT would be interesting!

[Almost50]

@kuribo: Amrun says you & her are spirit animals and that she never wants to scumread you

[Almost50]

VOTE: DEB

L-2

[Almost50]

From MathBlade to Ank and A50:
Win/Lose I've got a rule that each person plays their slot. So far you’re both coming around to the other person being town. I am shitty on scumreads but good on town. Can you like just town hunt then nuke in PoE?

From skitter to Math:

It would have helped if there were evidence of your team doing the same

[Almost50]

I am going to sleep now. Please don't vote anyone until I come back and give you my solve (with a case), but please feel free to discuss and FoS eachother all you want. If you feel the urge to vote, use the HURT: tags instead. Thank you.

[Almost50]

Reminder that no-killing on purpose to get a "guilty" or "innocent", especially when down by this much, is totally within the realm of scum tactics. Especially with old-timers.
Bonus points if you can come to the conclusion that pointing this out is 100% town motivated.
You made me stay up another 10 minutes.

Are you saying you did not commute tonight?

@Ank: Saying it here for all to see.. my team has mostly agreed on that lynch too. Amrun is all for it, and jjh made a surprising late appearance to announce the same conclusion (albeit having some doubt, but he probably isn't reading my case in the Team PT, and is trying to read the game without being affected of my reasoning). skitter is in doubt still (but hasn't spoken for a couple of days as it's weekend). Overall, it's what we had agreed upon still, and confidently so.

@All: I will start giving out my reasoning in a while.. bit by bit, so you can all digest where I'm coming from. I can also make town cases on all of the othr players (the ones I am not voting to lynch today) if necessary, but I'm hoping it won't come to that (too much work to go back and pick all the pieces with quotes and references).

REMEMBER: We now have TWO mislynches available, so it's basically auto-win for town if we can agree on THREE players to lynch in sequence, and I don't even think we will mislynch today either, so the game should be over today.

[Almost50]

Here's the first bit: jjh says gooey is mechanically clear. The Survivor couldn't kill, and needed to lynch BOTH DEB/gooey to get his hands on the BP. 2 Scums in there means they could have framed him and lynched him instead.

So, it's not gooey

[Almost50]

@dave: Remind me (with quotes if possible) of you reads towards the end of yesterday. Like, if you -hypothetically- had the Tracker shot available and wanted to use it last night, who would have been the candidates according to your announced reads at the time?

[Almost50]

Also, confirm you didn't commute last night (I don't care if you did before or if it's still available to you. I just want to know it wasn't used last night.)

[Almost50]

@panth: which member(s) of your team are reading the game still?

[Almost50]

OK.. thanks.

I now do not mind outing I want to lynch panth. Here's another tip:

@a50 ill explain my reads in a bit if you want.

my notes were written primarily for me

to be able to make sense of the game and explain my thought process, with everyone else being able to discern something closely behind.

Now check the spoiler in 2076 (I'll save you the trouble of switching pages. here it is..)

Spoiler:

5th line.. [big secret]??? If you are writing personal notes for yourself, how likely are you going to have a "big secret" hidden from

yourself

?? I mean, was Vex afraid Korina would squeel? (Korina is Vex' alt)

[Almost50]

So those note were forges with the purpose of posting them to the thread.

Now check this out:

It might be a bit obvious but Vex and I share a hood and he's basically lock town in my eyes. For his play in the hood/thread and he townslipped post number 1.

He made a giant post on why he wanted everyone in our neighborhood to be masons because of how neighbors work etc. Fully unaware that other hoods exist. I asked if scum had pre game chat and the answer was yes. I feel if Vex was scum obviously scum would say who they're in a hood with and Vex wouldn't make a post like that.

can confirm this statement btw. maria is locktown to me for play in thread/hood as well.

I will not even comment

[Almost50]

@kuribo: One more time, please. Can you tell us how your hood ended up blocking the Inventors twice in a row? Oorc, No Maria proposed it and you agreed. Then on N2 Maria proposed it and... I don't remember which of you/panth supported it. Please be patient with me and gibe us your statement once more.

@pathL You can do the same if you like.

[Almost50]

Kuri/panth- Both are still obvious town to me for hood interactions and thread play. If there's scum in here it's Kuri, but that's saying it with a '20%' confidence rate. Panth is never scum here.

The group of Dave/Fire are people I feel less confident on. I think with a DEB scum flip it def makes Fire look better but if I was scum Deb is the slot I'd bus 9/10 times so take that with a grain of salt. Dave hiding his result was super towny, but I was scumreading him for three days.

I'll be first to admit reading the top 2 lines alone is me conf-biasing, so I decided to quote the whole thing. Again, mo comment.

[Almost50]

So: Lynch DEB/FL FL first cause that makes EP obvious town with a FL scum flip or makes EP obv scum. We're going down to 10 people so if you want the safe scum flip I say go for DEB. Really there's 0 reason for him to be town here.

Never touch Pant/Gamma

I think you should leave Dave/Ank/A50 alive for another day.

You can look at people like Fire if you want, but I don't recommend it.

Then we have this. Maria said to lynch FL/DEB (i explained this before) and decided to conf!Town Panth/gooey,

knowing she is going to flip after having been venged

.

Reverse psychology would have made us suspect panth/gooey more, but with one scum flipping already in panth's hood it was gooey who was supposed to be lynched next to give DEB the BP (before lynching Ank and killing me on the same night I try to shoot DEB).

FL thought of a double-gambit though. Try to conf!town gooey (and try to trick dave into outing if he had used his commute shot already in the process) so it looks less sus when gooey gets shot the next night.

FL didn't see his own lynch coming though.

[Almost50]

Some quick VCA:

Flavor Leaf (6): Almost50, Gammagooey, kuribo, EspressoPatronum, Ankamius, Flavor Leaf
davesaz (1): Firebringer
Firebringer (1): davesaz

Where is panth's vote??? It's where DEB's vote was. Both BOT VOTING. The most likely stance for scum taken aback by an unexpected wagon on their "leader". Push elsewhere and you look bad. Vote your p and you lose the "brain and muscle" of the team.

Now let's scroll back to:

Creature (9): Almost50, nomnomnom, Gammagooey, MariaR, kuribo, EspressoPatronum, davesaz, Flavor Leaf, chennisden
nomnomnom (4): Vex Vience, Ankamius, DeasVail, Volpe14

Not Voting (3): Dr Easy Bake, Creature, GuyInFreezer

2 scums on Creature, 1 scum not voting. Do you think the 4th was also on the lynch wagon (voting right next to their p by necessity, as both gooey & kuribo were adhacent to Maria and dave was adjacent to FL) or were they not voting (why would TWO scums not be voting there?), or were they on the counter wagon (only Vex/panth & Ank are still alive)?

[Almost50]

nomnomnom (7): Gammagooey, DEB, EspressoPatronum, Ankamius, Firebringer, Flavor Leaf, nomnomnom

I can actually see this being mostly if not all town

.

Ank/Firebringer is where I’m thinking scum are, but I don’t think they both are.

I feel scum probably were staying off of Nomnom because fear of getting shot.

First impulse/impression: There's another scum on this wagon (other than FL himself). But then look whom he shades. Now gooey/DEB were on the same hood and I already explained why gooey is clear independently, so this is an indication both Ank/FB are Town (not my main reason to TR either.. skitter just tripped on this post while she was catching up 4-5 days ago)

[Almost50]

My team says flavor and DEB interactions yesterday were extremely fake

Like, I know it's very much within RC's scum!Range to bus his entire scum team, but he doesn't benefit anything from it at that point.

[Almost50]

Sorry for deviating from the main case. I am just going through my team's PT and trying to out everything there so as not to forget.

[Almost50]

OK.. one more "not directly related to panth": FL's slip was about him wanting Maria to vote Ank. Who still thinks Ank is Scum here?

[Almost50]

Dunn thinks your reasoning for townreading gamma is dumb Ank.
pedit: Me and pant are a hood yes

And this indicates gooey is Town too.

[Almost50]

So, if we assume a Town block of myself, Ank, gooey & FB this game is auto already.

I'll be back in 30 minutes or so.. dinner is ready and I'm starving (sorry)

P-edit: OK. Thanks. I had hoped to find something there to clear you (for the crowd, as you are already clear from my PoV), so I won't have to go deep ISOing if someone asks for a Town!case on you

[Almost50]

Back

So, a little note before I forget too: panth also wasn't on DEB, when he had spent the entire game promoting for that lynch and asking why he wasn't lynched yet!!

[Almost50]

OK.. here comes the point where I made up my mind. I am going to try to paraphrase slightly so that I won't be caught "quoting myself" from my Team's PT. Here goes:

Well, after those last 2 phases I'm more comfident Ank is town even more than any other slot still alive. I told her everything I thought in our hood and the lynches of both FL/DEB could have been stopped if she was scum with them. It was as easy as to kill me that night where no kill occurred.

By mechanical approach I still insist you do NOT give Scum an extra kill when they're already ahead. I mean, a 4 Scums team is already an advantage, then they get an extra VIG (or a Vengeshot for that matter) when they have managed to lynch the townies in their hood??

So, aside from my other MANY reasons to TR Ank (and FB) that's one more reason to support my case on them. Also note how FL/Maria treated both Ank/FB and compare that to how they treated DEB.

As for dave: Scum knowing what abilities that hood had beforehand and choosing to block there is possible but doubtful. Killing off the other 2 Inventors makes a lot of sense to nullify that hood completely though. I actually have no mechanical reason to clear dave, but I do strongly TR him by meta, and Maria pushing dave early into the game kind of supports that read.

gooey:

2-shots BP makes a LOT of sense vs an all-town Vig hood. It also makes a hell of a lot sense if that hood contained NO TOWN. 2 BP shots make a lot of sense for a Survivor AND for a SK as well as a member of the Scum team.

I have now ruled out the SK completely, AND I also town!cased gooey.

panth/kuribo: It makes sense to have one hood controlled by the scum team, and

the most reasonable ability to give them would be the RB

. If one of them is Scum they're definitely GROUP SCUM and we have no SK.

Vex was NOT Town IMHO. Not even close. His handwritten notes were deliberately faked. Anyway, if someone can fake reads in the thread they can fake thoughts on a draft too.

Vex gave Maria a TR early on in his notes, then in the read list she's not in his top 2 tiers ( she's implicitly in "All Others: Null"). Nite that FL is a Town Lean and DEB is a Scum Lean, which is the standard SCUM way of placing team mates in a readlist.

Most of Vex' notes is him calling someone/something "weird". What does weird even mean?

Ex: "#265 (Volpe) feels very weird - [Big Secret] - bullscum/scumlean". Then Volpe is in his TL line. AND WHY THE FREAK does anyone put "Big Secret" in their own personal notes anyway? Are they trying to hide their reads from themselves??

On his 2nd read list; Vex has Maria magically appears in his top tier line. WHY? He notes he left off earlier than midday on D1, so what made him TR Maria that hard at that point? And where is the progression on her in all his previous notes?

Also why is Elements ALWAYS is brackets in his Top tier? Doesn't that point to him writing those notes down AFTER the fact? D1 ended with post 2068, and Vex's notes are in post 2076!!! So, that was a catch up done during the night. Now where are his reads relating to that flip?

In fact, I think I've just cased SCUM Vex here.

I'll go dig up in that direction

[Almost50]

@gooey:

1- Why would Maria push dave early into the game, yet defend DEB?
2- I myself had FL as a top TR up until Maria was venged and flipped. I only realized how mistaking I was during the night after.
3- As I said, we do have 2 mislynches at hand, so we can lynch dave tomorrow if the game isn't over with panth's lynch today.

[Almost50]

Amrun noted Maria hard defended Vex too )she didn't provide quotes and I'm not going to re-ISO Maria at this point)

Now check the readlist is #2241 and tell me if that fits with dave being scum with FL/Maria/DEB

[Almost50]

I mean, just compare THAT readlist to Vex's.

[Almost50]

Note: dave does NOT bus. In fact, here's a readlist he posted in a recent game where he was Scum with me, FL & Reundo. Please note how he read his 3 scum mates.

Here's where I am.

Tea - having a hard time making up my mind, have not played with before
PMysterious - not trying to scumhunt, normally something I read as a scumtell. Concerned about lack of info from a lynch but OTOH scum lynch is good.
Fish Monger - feels town
Chemist1422 - another not trying to scumhunt, but reaction to my question wasn't bad. Willing to vote
Billy Pilgrim - feels town
Flavor Leaf - actions feel town but he's someone who can fool me easily
Hectic - I thought his predecessor was a little scummy. Need to see some more catchup before I can read
Luca Blight - feels town
davesaz - town
Dunnstral - Doesn't seem to be scumhunting, don't know why others think he's town.
Vorkuta - V/LA and can't remember what I thought. I try not to scumread people for RL. Willing to re-read if a wagon pops up.
Almost50 - Catchup felt townie
Reundo - pretty null, I'd have to re-read, has not been very memorable
Wake88 - I think he's been avoiding hunting a little more than just not liking d1
Gamma Emerald - feels town
Zote the Mighty - feels town
splitfarvle - would be willing to vote, another not scumhunting
NorwegianboyEE - feels town

Wake feels like he's actively avoiding scumhunting, which seems more scum motivated than just lurking would. Though the hating d1 thing is true from what I remember.
PMysterious, splitfarvle would be ok lynches. I said I'd like to do better meaning I would prefer someone who gives us D2 leads.
I'd be willing to vote for Dunn or Chemist to avoid a NL. I probably wouldn't push them.

If you have anyone else you'd like me to consider for a vote please make a case. I'm willing to listen.

[Almost50]

Oops! Used the wring spoiler tag!

Anyway, once again:

volxen (7): Almost50, nomnomnom, Gammagooey, MariaR, kuribo, EspressoPatronum, davesaz
nomnomnom (5): Vex Vience, Ankamius, DeasVail, Volpe14, chennisden

Not Voting (4): Dr Easy Bake, Flavor Leaf, volxen, GuyInFreezer

1- Now it's obvious scum didn't push Volxen to save nom. Right? We know DEB & FL were scum (not voting). Do you think GIF ALSO is scum here??
2- If GIF is NOT scum, do you think it more likely the other scum is on nom or Volxen?
3-a- If you think it's Volxen, then which of gooey/kuribo/dave looks more likely (based on this VC alone)? (Note that the NEXT vote on Volxen is FL's)
3-b- if it's on nom, do you think it's Ank over Vex??

[Almost50]

Finally: There was NO KILL last night. Why would dave no kill AND say he didn't commute? I mean, the ONLY benegit dave gets from a no kill gambit here is to confirm himself, and he misses out on that? He brought the numbers back to ODDs for the lolz of it? Or do you think he hasn't been reading AT ALL and tried to shoot you for instance?

[Almost50]

Dave's readslist in #2241 waffles on all three of Maria/FL/DEB, I can see it being scum who doesn't want to take a strong stand on their partners early when everyone's reads are still in flux and one might get pushed soon, but it would be a little weird to be that hedgey with literally every scumbuddy he has tbf.

Let me rephrase my question then: Who were his other SRs from that readlist? Like, if you could translate his words into a ranked readlist (for yourself, maybe.. you don't have to post it in here) how would that look? And why would he ahve his entire team near the bottom? I have provided you with what scum!dave's readlist looks like in a game I was his scum partner in. Do you think it looks anything like the one he provided in 2241?

[Almost50]

If he's scum, he no-killed because he didn't want to clear anyone with his tracker shot now that we're down to just 1 scum left

Why not? Clear X by day and shoot them at night. Problem solved.

[Almost50]

If he's scum, he no-killed because he didn't want to clear anyone with his tracker shot now that we're down to just 1 scum left

this makes a lot of sense

FB, go away and put RC back on!

[Almost50]

Btw, that was a JOKE @FB. I don't want you misunderstanding me on this (yet, RC did say dave was TOWN, so you might want to check with him on that one)

[Almost50]

Wow that Lynch pool is awful

I figure last scum is in one of Dave, a50, and fb

how could u even scumread dave and especially a50?

Was this you or RC? @FB

P-edit: OK.

[Almost50]

Btw, here's something FUNNY I mad note of in my hood with Ank earlier:

I am torn between voting DEB (my newest auto-SR default target), Maria (my traditional auto-SR default target) or FL (I'm gonna SR him at some point, so better get it off the way)/ GIF? Hus team is supposed to carry ours, so that's an auto-TR read.

Now why is dave scum over me? @gooey??

[Almost50]

@FL why did you jump from FoS on chenn to a hard attack on someone who voted him?

Who thinks scum!dave talks to scum!FL like this?

[Almost50]

Did any of them try to read the game at any point in the past? Any point at all?

[Almost50]

outing hood powers are bad. outing neighbors is ok, ig?

i mean, it could possibly help nail down reads from people, and it would get dialogue about them open, but like, what incentive does scum have to shoot the all-town hoods, knowing it’ll give them their last-man standing? wouldn’t scum want to shoot into their own hoods for it?

based on the night reveal, let’s assume the writers are all town. scum knows that group is all town and when there’s only one left, they become a vigi. that’s bad for scum. someone can easily shoot and kill them at that point. whereas, if the hood has scum in it, wouldnt they want to shoot the others in the hood—ignoring the all-town hoods—to get the extra nk?

Now this is how I read this: "We already know the Writers LMS. We just want to know who else is in there so as not to accidentally hand them the Vig shot too early".

[Almost50]

OK. Also I think I'm done casing panth. I know my thoughts are all over the place (not as well articulated as my case on FL was) but hey, you all can still read and comprehend it, right?

Over to you, Ank.

[Almost50]

So far so good

[Almost50]

I mean like I'm not scum and there's no case that I am

Why did scum me pick a fight with nom after the scum team gave her a venge shot?

To draw the venheshot to yourself and off FL (who was obsessed she would vengekill him) would be a goof guess. Your slot has been useless all game anyway, so that would have been a good use if it.

Why did scum me decide to get suspicious of my neighborhood and pick a fight with kuribo?

Remind me

when

and I'll try to speculate on that one, but double-voting is always good.

Why did scum me not kill kuribo to pick up the double vote from our LMS?

Because it makes you look even more suspicious. You need kuribo for a possible MISLYNCH as you're probably running out of options.

What about my game play had indicated that I am scum?

I'll raise you one: What about yours or your predecessor's game indicate that you are town?

[Almost50]

If I was scum and I had just given nom a venge shot, there's literally no reason for me to have picked a fight with her. That series of events does not make rational sense.

OK. What's your TOWN motive to pick a fight with someone you know has a venge shot?

[Almost50]

Y'all are relying on bad PoE and trying to mechanically outguess a setup.

If that's the case, then you should be showing us the way to do it right. Instead, you're letting us try to solve and just sitting there complaining that we're doing it wrong.

What is your solve? Why?

[Almost50]

Because I think it's suspicious that Maria's first instinct was to block his neighborhood! A neighborhood that dishes out investigative powers

Why does dave No Kill last night? What does he benefit from it if he intended to explicitly say he didn't commute either?

[Almost50]

Nom's play was shit and I wanted to provoke her into actually doing anything

So, you were TRing her still?

[Almost50]

I thought nom was playing bad but couldn't tell if it was scum playing a dumb townie or just townie too deep in her ego to understand why people thought she was scummy.

Mte, you spearheaded the nom wagon, and only unvoted when it looked like it was going through. You also spearheaded the wagon on her the day before. Even your predecessor was stuck in voting her too. Now you tell me you were not sure??? If you were unsure then why did you build the wagon on her? And what made you hop off it when it gained momentum?

Also, what if we lynch dave and he flips green? Who is the most likely scum from your PoV in that case?

[Almost50]

VOTE: panth

I feel I've given you more than your fair chance, but your play is to try to survive and provide nothing still. "Vibed weird" is your case in me/Ank then I guess you don't mind me voting you for "vibing scum" (that's even stronger than vibing weird). If you voted nom to apply pressure then I am applying pressure (that will hopefully lead to your lynch).

Now, do look at me/Ank NOW and state exactly WHY either of us could be scum. Spare me no details, because -as it stands- I think you're bad scum, but in the off chance I'm wrong you're even a worse townie.

In short: Do provide

detailed

reads and cases, or spare is the time and effort and self-vote already.

[Almost50]

skitter says tris/Saudade were not coached in her game at all either.

jjh had earlier remarked that the image of Vex' notes was added to igur almost 2 hours before the day started, and was posted about 15 minutes into the day, so he was wondering if it was first posted in the scum PT to verify it looked good enough.

[Almost50]

And I thought you said your team wasn't reading this game.

[Almost50]

Good thinking!

But seriously, you apparently didn't get what I said (or rather what jjh was saying). There was no delay. The notes were posted 15 minutes into the day. It's the upload time that makes it suspicious. the gap between when it was uploaded and when the day started. 105 minutes is enough time for scum to review the notes and okay them before they were posted in the main thread.

Anyway, that isn't a good reason to prove/disprove anything so I'll drop it.

[Almost50]

Yet, I'm wondering how it came to your attention that this was the reason anyway. Did Vex say anything about it in your team PT?

[Almost50]

Spoiler: notes

OK. And I guess I misunderstood jjh. He was asking if these note were posted in your HOOD. You know, the one you share with Kuribo (and -previously- Maria). Were they?

[Almost50]

Like, jjh though it would suck if Vex spent all night catching up and writing down notes and then something happened that prevented him from posting in the main thread, so posting them in the hood would have been nice to preserve them somehow.

[Almost50]

2things (from jjh):

1- How long before daystart were the notes posted in the hood? Did vex use them to inform his decision to roleblock dave? Like, did he post them and say he was voting dave (or going to vote him) based on them?

2- I also retract the "big secret" remark in my case on panth, as it appears he was quoting Volpe on that post (265) having a big secret tier in his reads and calling that weird.

[Almost50]

Is everybody waiting to see if Coronavirus will end the world and thus they don'[t have to effort solving or what?

[Almost50]

jjh would like to call this a scumslip because he finds it funny

when did FL start bussing?

....yesterday? When he started pushing me?

[Almost50]

Back in my day mafia wasn't just aimless egoist dick swinging where everyone wanted to be a king for the town and solve everything.

Instead I'm dealing with this shit.

I regret replacing into this

You must've been a great player at "your time". Did you know FL was SCUM and you weren't on his wagon? Did you know DEB was SCUM and you were not on his wagon either?

Did you know YOU were willing to vote DEB to save FL, but not on the day he was actually lynched?

As scum, why do I try to randomly bus DEB?

You call this a bus??

VOTE: DEB

My neighborhood has talked me down or whatever

I spoke to my neighborhood and they agree that you are a useless waste of a slot, but that lynching you is not a good idea. So I got off it

WAIT! Here's when you voted DEB earlier:

VOTE: DEB

My neighborhood has talked me down or whatever

So, which is it? Did your team talk you into voting DEB or did they convince it was a bad idea (to bus your partner at that point )

[Almost50]

@town: if firebringer is a scum/PoE read, why did he remove himself from his neighborhood?

Is this also a play from "your days"?? I don't even see why this question would be brought up here and no when the wagon is ON YOU, and not FB!!!

But I get the feeling you're desperately trying to in kuribo/FB on your side from that post. Are you somehow LOVED?? Do you require an additional vote for your lynch??

[Almost50]

Are you actually going to read anything

Who? Me? NEVER. I am a useless player in this game. My slot hasn't contributed anything in 7 days and is still refusing to do anything useful/meaningful. My bad!

P.S. It just hit me: If I thought this game was just an aimless egoist dick swinging and refused to participate then maybe it's because I'm dickless!

[Almost50]

OK.. so why did your town thing it was a bad idea to vote DEB?

[Almost50]

I see. My bad then

[Almost50]

Oka wants a proper massclaim of roles and actions throughout the game

??? For real??

Well, I am a 1-shot Recharged Desperate Weak Visitor, and my flavor is Richard III.

[Almost50]

Oka is interested in skitters reads

Personally, I was going to ignore this one altogether, nut skitte just posted in my team PT saying to tell you she has the flu and is out of commission for a few days

[Almost50]

But you know what? Keep them questions coming. At least Oka's trying

[Almost50]

Because I think you're playing for time. I have posted every single read I got from skitter, jjh or Amrun already. You just don't want to read.

[Almost50]

Now ask Oka for HIS read on me, if you will.

[Almost50]

Did he provide any reasoning?

[Almost50]

Scum seemed more than happy to let Nom be the Mislynch

That's not how I see it, actually, although I have no solid proof. I think that Scum were divided (and probably even had a bit of a quarrel in their PT) about it. Maria in particular was so against it she snapped when it went through and she was venged despite having tried to get on the good side of nom all game.

I repeat: I do not have any proof that this happened, but I get the feeling FL wanted to lynch nom and have her venge DEB (the least of two evils for scum), Ank (a better option for scum), or gooey (an even better option for them), and Maria was of the opinion that was a bad idea. Maria may even have been against giving nom the venge in the first place.

If I take that theory for a fact (hint: I shouldn't) and in total isolation, I can see scum being anyone OTHER THAN Ank/gooey (because they both were definitely on nom's short list, at least from a 3rd person's PoV).

[Almost50]

Oka is probably right about

Dave being more likely scum than

A50 shooting me if we lynch ank

VOTE: Dave

FTFY

[Almost50]

Don't forget that scum!FL tried to conftown Gammagoey. Why does scum want to conftown anyone?

Again: because it was clearly sus AF if gooey was the scum NK and DEB was the LMS. Confirming your future NK provides the necessary WIFOM of "DEB got the LMS bc he is no threat to scum". Let;s not forget the LMS of that particular hood was not yet revealed, so if scum could have lynched in me/Ank the next day the Vig shot on DEB would have failed and they would have killed the Vig too (well, they

assumed

the Vig shot would be on DEB)

[Almost50]

@gooey:

I think there’s scum in the commuter hood, the Fakran hood, and the Volxen hood.

Going by the primitive rule of 1 in 3, dave is TOWN. Could you please just trust me on this? I mean, we're down to just 1 scum alive, so we can lynch him (and lose) the day AFTER tomorrow if the game goes that long.

[Almost50]

If you had even half an ounce of common sense you'd automatically leave me till lylo.

jjh says you're going a bit off the deep end and away from common sense like he did last team mafia. He said you can live another day but not to LyLo. He explains that LyLo is the perfect time for scum!you to fake a guilty.

Disclaimer: I am adamant dave is TOWN here. Furthermore, it is strategically best for town to lynch in panth/kuribo today (and that's regardless of my or anyone else's reads). You don't bloody take a DOUBLEVOTER to a 3-player LyLo unless they've been

mechanically cleared

. Who the fuck taught you to play Mafia??

[Almost50]

Maybe I should reverse the logic and be suspicious of A50 as the only one who firmly TRs me.

Yes. Add more confusion/WIFOM as the game really needs that.

[Almost50]

Except as we've BOTH confirmed, the ability does not work in LYLO

I probably missed that. Hmmmm...

[Almost50]

VOTE: kuribo

- 1 Scum left alive.
- dave claims a guilty on kuribo
- I have a Vig shot
- Scum is either dave or kuribo
- We lynch kuribo
- If he is Town I shoot dave
- IF dave is still alive tomorrow, he is still getting lynched

GG

[Almost50]

@kuribo: That makes no sense. dave claimed a guilty on you. Myself, FB & gooey are now confirmed town (I know you hate the term, but it's a fact). Either dave is legit - you are scum, or he is lying = he is scum.

[Almost50]

@dave: jjh wants you to explicitly say you tracked kuribo to Ank rather than just imply it.

[Almost50]

Like honestly I expected exactly this from dave-scum except that he'd fake a guilty on one of ank/almost instead

I also lost the last UT game I played in b/c of a completely unpredictable extra scum kill so I'm more than a bit hesitant to compromise on the order here

I dunno what you are talking about. What extra SCUM kill?

Look, mate: We are 5 today. Lynch the guilty and we win. If not, then the guilty was fake and we go for the lying scum in that case. I shoot him. He does = GG. I shoot him and he doesn't die = he still is the lynch in the 3-players LyLo.

Now why lynch the Cop to verify the guilty? And why would anyone fake a guilty BEFORE LyLo/MyLo? Unless you think we started the game with FIVE scums, which is ridiculous in an 18-players setup.

[Almost50]

I literally said yesterday that I expected him to fake a guilty while y'all were lynching panth

Afain: What's the point? If it's a fake guilty it was premature. It was a whole cycle early. It doesn't work.

[Almost50]

jjh would also like to point out that if dave is scum and still has his commute shot, he can't both commute and kill on the same night.

[Almost50]

Btw, if kuribo is Scum AND the game still goes on, I dunno which of FB/gooey to lynch next. I know it's very very VERY unlikely, but I want to cover all basis.

[Almost50]

jjh would also like to point out that if dave is scum and still has his commute shot, he can't both commute and kill on the same night.

That's confirmed by what?

By how Commuter works. Commuter

leaves town

so can neither target nor be targeted.

You may want to doublecheck with the mod if you are not sure though.

[Almost50]

I still want to lynch Dave over kuribo

Sorry, but I'm not lynching the Cop over the guilty.

[Almost50]

Conveniently not even using his watch when there was a lightning rod

That's not true. Look at this:

Accounting for the chance that dave has a watcher shot left,

nobody should submit an action tonight

except for dave. That'll increase the chances that dave can find scum if they use the kill.

I would heavily scrutinize anyone who decides to submit an action anyway.

Hey EP,

Hypothetically, what if I already watched the doctor I'm more townreading (the one not named FL) a couple nights ago? Advice for that case needs to be covered too. Hypothetically...

He

did

watch EP the first night he got the JOAT.. "hypothetically".

[Almost50]

After all is said and done; this is a quote from

literally my first post

of the game.

I am torn between voting DEB (my newest auto-SR default target), Maria (my traditional auto-SR default target) or FL (I'm gonna SR him at some point, so better get it off the way)

But seriously, nom gave us back the game singlehandedly with that venge after it had seemed a foregone conclusion.

dave made the most of his ability and he did nail the last scum (it would have been a bitch trying to lynch kuribo over dave/fb and I was going to be the NK the next night)

kuribo himself played a semi-perfect game

All in all, I think the Town played a miserable game up until nom was lynched (and venged Maria), then it turned to be a completely different game from then on.

Unrelated: @FL: I love you, man! I even loved that Scum PT. (Say hello to Tom Hardy for me)