Monty Python's Mafia Circus Game Over

[PokerFace]

Alrighty then, time to sit back and relax while I wait for others to arrive. I sure am hungry for some nicotine. Anyone got a light?

[PokerFace]

EBWOP: I suppose the better english term would be I crave nicotine, but grammar shouldn't be important on the interwebs.

[PokerFace]

Albatross!

I love the smell of estrogen in the morning air.

Albatross!

Indeed. I read through "You are what you eat" and it would appear that shaft.ed's games have a descent supply of females.


*

Translation

*

Who’s the

private dick

mod that’s a sex machine to all the chicks?

Shaft.ed!

You're damn right!

[PokerFace]

They say this cat shaft.ed is a bad mother...

Shut your mouth!

I’m only talkin ’bout shaft.ed

Then we can dig it!

abridg.ed

http://www.moviesforguys.com/shaft

OK folks I've received all of the needed confirmations. Game starts now. Deadline exactly 5 weeks from this post.

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch or 9 to No Lynch.

"My nipple's explode with delight."

[PokerFace]

Maybe we should lynch imaginality just because he used puns, they are simular to punch lines.

I wish I had time to help Guri on that one. I don't have time or know anything abour Greek numbers.

Do you or anyone else, know anything about tobacco? I am so jones'n for a fix.

Sit on my face and tell me that you love me.

"I-if I told you, you H-had a beautiful body, W-would you hold it against me?"

[PokerFace]

Yo Ironman, are you some kind of store owner?

I

seriously

need to buy smokes and matches from someone else in play.

Albatross!

Are we done with the silly stuff yet? Really annoying...

Albatross!

I am not being silly with my previous statement.

[PokerFace]

Before you get confused there stappado, I should tell you that I don't exactly have a post restriction. I do actually need to buy smokes and matches from someone else in play, but I am not required to mention this in every post or something like that. I am allowed to post without saying a word about it, as much as i want. I have merely chosen to mention my search for them, in order to make my search easier. I don't even smoke in real life. I would rather not have to clarify myself any further.

[PokerFace]

Everyone has now posted at least once. Does anyone want to comment on what I've been saying?

[PokerFace]

To tell the truth, I was bored and was looking for some fun.

Since this is Monty Python mafia,

I thought a deviation from the norm was in order

.

So you claimed because you wanted to do something completely different?

And Strappado, I already said I don't have a post restriction. See here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 55#1139055

I too think Poker is looking for someone specific with his question

This is what's correct. I "think" there is only one person who can give me what I search for.

I have nothing to do with tobacco or cigarettes

I also have nothing to sell PokerFace

And if you aren't the person with the smokes then maybe later I can ask you something else, and you should help me there.

At any rate, I think I have figured out enough about my role's confusing flavor for now. Everyone posted once and no one has yet responded with a direct answer so I may be nerfed or have a plea of incompetance (with this role, I got shaft.ed!) or it is simply too confusing and silly for me to figure it all out this early. I'd apreciate the person I'm searching for coming forward or giving me some kind of sign but if they can't at this time then oh well.

At any rate we should probably stop discussing or guessing roles and that sort of thing for now since its taking too much time, time that would probably be better spent scum hunting. But there is one thing I do want to test before I dive into scum hunting.

Vote: Bruce

When elvis and mirth voted bruce it was pre-game and the last guy to vote bruce besides imaginality had bad tags. I want to see if my vote for him is counted.

Also

@Internet & SpyreX,

do you feel it would be a good idea or a bad idea for someone to continue fishing for and discovering other people's roles (not just ironman's) this early?

PS. Yes I recognize I used puns and joked about them earlier.

[PokerFace]

Nope, nothing happened Mirth. For the time being this is all I can assume as truth.

I too think Poker is looking for someone specific with his question

This is what's correct. I "think" there is only one person who can give me what I search for.

I have nothing to do with tobacco or cigarettes

I also have nothing to sell PokerFace

And if you aren't the person with the smokes then maybe later I can ask you something else, and you should help me there.

Perhaps I'll have more figured out later on. And If I figure more out and its helpful to the town I'll be sure to bring it up. Since no one responded to me directly yet, its possible my target wants to stay hidden or my search is 100% futile, meaning Shaft.ed gave me some bogus flavor like how IamMars was rather nerfed/confused in "Pirates versus Ninjas" and "Weather Mafia".

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 102#991102
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 81#1009081
(There were no vampires for him to find in P vs N and there was no player specifically called Curious George in Weather Mafia).

At any rate like I said before, scum hunting now will probably be the most useful thing I can do. I am still waiting for Internet's answer to my question, I'm going to read through what Strapado and Jordan have done so far and see if that warrants any votes.

@Strapado,

my vote for Bruce did not count earlier only imaginality's vote for bruce counts aparently. Your vote don't count for him either

[PokerFace]

Ok I took some time to look through the thread.

Mirth is there a reason you changed your opinions, or was the first comment just random day1ness?

Everyone has now posted at least once. Does anyone want to comment on what I've been saying?

That you need cigarettes? Those things are bad for you so you shouldn't get any.

Chenhsi, I'm tempted to move my vote over to you. I don't like the "I'm confused" card. I think all of us are confused but you're the only one trying to play it. I'll be watching you.

Imaginality: I think the red is just person with the most votes. Some mods do this. Also, person with the most votes is the lynch in case we go to deadline.

As for smokes, I think he might be searching for a specific character, or maybe it involves night actions, but, sure, why not, wouldn't hurt to try. I have nothing to do with tobacco or cigarettes, role-wise, so this probably will accomplish nothing. If no one has an objection, I'd be willing to offer him evil.bad.not.good.allergy.inducing.cancer.sticks in my next post.

There has been alot of fishing going around in general. Sadly I did contribute to that is some ways and it should be stopped. I can understand trying to pin down post restrictions, but asking what people do should stop.

Chensi, killa seven, and jordan need to post something relevant. Case on Jordan looks like its based off his lurking an a omgus vote. I see omgus often during day 1 randomness from people like BM and jordan so I am not sold.

Never played with chensi before. Don't know if he normally does this but he definatly should be trying soon. Same goes for luigi. Its possible he may have just been acting silly there since everyone else was acting silly with the Bruce-ness.

It should be noted that Luigi is now at L-2 assuming the bruce vote is also for him.

At any rate I doubt DBE has a content restriction like she claims. I'd sooner believe she is trying to say that about herself as a scapegoat. If you have a post restriction claim it now. I see no patern in your previous posts.

I'll review some other people on the weekend.

[PokerFace]

I think to avoid any possibility of momentary confusion leading to premature lynching, I should remind everyone that my vote is also on the Bruce bandwagon, so Bruce is currently on L-2, not L-3 as it might appear to the unwary.

Heh heh, simulposting ftw.

[PokerFace]

I am not a liberty to discuss it with the likes of you but you shall see a change in my play dependent on the amount of votes on the main lynch candidate.

???

Also to clarify for mirth, I meant the change in her opinions about not helping me and then trying to help me. I probably should have quoted that better.

Also can the players that don't have avatars get some avatars? I am having trouble keeping track of some things.

[PokerFace]

Hypocrit much darla? is there a specific thing you think is a lie or can you quote that better. Calling it all a lie feels off and I am still not buying you having a restriction.

Vote: Darla

I thought luigi was being silly and mentioned the possibility he was. I don't know if I guessed/thought correctly or if he is taking advantage of what I said. I think Imaginality brings up some good points about Luigi's last post though so I think I'll keep an eye on luigi.

Friday or saturday I want to take some time to look at what strappado has been saying since I do recall some of it rubing me the wrong way. More on this later.

General comment: I don't smoke in real life but cigarette smoking does not bother me either. I got buds that smoke around me and I don't care.

[PokerFace]

I think luigi should die. In a game where you are confused, why would you ADD to the confusion by typing backwards?

Interesting, for a moment I thought you were refering to luigi saying this before the backwards post.

I am confused

, what is with all these links, surely alot of these links are fake. I looked up monty python on you tube and i found these..

But that sentence is rather out of context since its based on the linking. And now you say this.

Wouldn't you agree that faking a posting restriction is scummy? For some people who really have a restriction, adding to confusion is not their fault. If the restriction is faked, they are adding to the confusion on purpose. And that's scummy.

I am still not buying Darla's. It feels way too much like an excuse now. I want to know her answer to mirth's question. I'm curious to what spre thought the post restriction was before it was "explained". Tell me, elvis, what did you think of the use of the word bruce in posts 271-274 by people who weren't imaginality?

[PokerFace]

EBWOP:
I am still not buying Darla's. It feels way too much like an excuse now. I want to know her answer to mirth's question. I'm curious to what

SpyreX

thought the post restriction was before it was "explained". Tell me, elvis, what did you think of the use of the word bruce in posts 271-274 by people who weren't imaginality?

I want to make sure my point gets accross since I'd like to kno his thought

[PokerFace]

At work. Going to word that a bit better since this is a point i want to make about darla's supposed PR. Rudeness =/= contentlessness. Can't you insult people and still give content?

Examples:
You worthless gits! I disagree with your opinion about _____ I think _____ etc.
OR
Copying Scumbags, you reek of flounder simply because you got to post that opinion first! My opinion is the same as yours and also _________

AH HA!

I have votes now!

Thank you for freeing me.

Yes I am a French Taunter. I must be annoying and insulting to anyone who asks me a question or asks me to do something. (as a Posting Restriction) Also, I may only break character if you will to announce v/al or that my status whilst being away (I checked ^^)

also I must be insulting to anyone once a substantial Bandwagon has formed.

And let's see. First you insult and then you nice and then you must insult again because there is a substaintial wagon is on you. That just don't look right. I'm guessing this may be what mirth meant by senclessness

[PokerFace]

A couple things I want to say. We shouldn't lynch darla before muerto gets a chance to read the thread. I am fairly certain the person I am searching for is either Town or he doesn't exist so letting muerto check in would help me figure some things out. There is also something I want to note. I mentioned the possibility of Darla setting up a scapegoat for herself. I saw this post a little while ago and I wonder if this is her setting up a scapegoat for a cronny.

Luigi, I am assuming you MUST post a link every post?

and hat do you mean by 'Must be Fake?'

Its a general thought I have. I also would like some time to get a look at what strapado has been saying since her early let's lynch the silly thing makes me wonder about her and her recent comments. I am at work right now so doing deep analysis on a player is not easy, but I'd like to check a couple of theorys I have in my head out if you guys would be willing to give me the time. There are also some others besides muerto that have been relativly quiet who's views should be seen and heard as Darla is lynched.

SpyreX, I apreciate you getting scum, but as a general comment it is best to get someone lynched in other ways then claiming your role or any actions you could possess. Getting someone lynched for having a BS restriction like I believe she was trying to pull off is better than exposing yourself to scum targetting. Just a general lesson, I thought I'd bring up.

[PokerFace]

I believe SryeX over Darla in case you haven't guess but seeing darla's side of the story would also be interesting considering what mirth said. either way should we lynch the wrong, getting the right one the next day is an obvious course of action. The risk that is entailed there is why I believe SpyreX over Darla. I don't see scum SpyreX or any scum for that manor willing counterclaiming someone like that. knowing they will get lynched the next day.

[PokerFace]

apologies - this is my first theme game so forgive me the lameness but...
Is it possible for two players to have the same role?

Hi, I play alot of theme games. Its possible players can have the same powers. I have seen theme games that have multiple cops and multiple vanillas and multiple vigs for that matter.

BUT I have never seen a theme game where 2 people claim to be the same character or to have the same name and they both end up being town

.

[PokerFace]

EBWOP: another possibility. What if both Spyrex and Darla are scum? One dead as scum confirms the other.

This is something we should keep in mind. Scum rarely do that especially since Spyre just said scum don't have safe claims (Which I don't see scum willingly admitting to ever), but I can link a game where Tarhalindur counterclaimed his scumbuddy for that exact purpose.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5314

[PokerFace]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say a safeclaim is a role that the mod gives the scum as a non-scum claim they can make, and it's safe because nobody else has it?

Or is it safe because it's actually in the game?

The first part is correct.

[PokerFace]

If Taunter was a vanilla, I'd buy it as some kind of default. As I claimed a power role and I really doubt there'd be more than one, I'm not buying it.

With all of the python roles that would be in here, I'm sure that there's no need for two of us to have the same role with different abilities.

Not buying it, and if this is the defense, well.

You both claim the name French Taunter correct? I ain't buying there being 2 either then. You crumbed lines clearly said by the french tauter SpyreX claims to be in his video. I have the holy grail Special edition DVD at home and I only remember one of them having significant speaking lines. You got a video link that says otherwise because if you claim to be the exact same one in the same armor and vid one of you must be a lair.

tautning them until they target me, however my taunting them nulls out their actions

This also makes little sence. They still target you and their action is nulled? And if they have no action do they target you now or something? Talk about craziness. Happy with my vote

[PokerFace]

I don't watch enough Python so I will ask was the French Taunter in any other movie then the Holy Grail?

I own copies of and have seen Life of Brian and The meaning of life aswell. Unless he makes a rare apearance in "And now for something completly different" I don't think he is in the other films.

Why I don't by it is for the following reasons:
Same name - if they have a different power their names should be slightly different. If they had the same power I'd by the name's being the same and not other wise.
Crumbing compared to video - Lookslike they are claiming to be the exact same guard.

I want to see darla's vid and hear her penalty for breaking the restriction.

[PokerFace]

Yay they are clearly claiming to be the same guard. One of them is lying. I think it is DBE since spyreX counter her and countering her would be utter stupity otherwise. He'd guarantee a lynching of himself on day2 if he is scum and darla isn't. Seems like he'd gain nothing. I know how to gamble and no fool would make that move. Still happy with vote I should get sometime tomorrow to go through some of the stuff I mentioned earlier. See you guys later for now.

[PokerFace]

Hey all. had some relatives drop by so I'll save some of the research I wanted to do for later.

The first paragraph SpyreX quoted from imaginality I think is about some lurker in general. Chen I think. It don't think it was pretining to DBE or spyreX.

PR penalty notes:

Imagininality said he gets 3 strikes per day or he's out! Modkill!
Lord Gurgi said his penality was lost night action.
DBE said she got a cryptic warning.

DBE could you clarify something for me? You said you have to insult people at different times. Do the insults only come when they ask you something or must they come constantly in your posts?

And Elvis could you answer the questions in this post from early?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 89#1150089

Other comments I'll make at this time Ironman should definatly be looked at for obv reasons others have brought up. I don't want him to claim more of his role I want him to read the thread when he votes.

This comment is something relevant that I will ponder. Since it is a valid point in respect to what risks are worth taking.

One question I have about that, which maybe someone with more experience can answer: is it normal for scum to (effectively) come out with their fake-claim so early on? The reason I ask is that to anyone with a bit of knowledge of Monty Python it was very obvious from very early on what character Bruce was appearing to be, due to her continual colourful insults.

That seems like a pretty big risk for scum to take when there's a decent chance another player might have that role?

It also makes me a little curious as to why Bruce didn't pressure her and/or counterclaim earlier.

And also I rarely see scum anxious to claim anything. Fake or otherwise unless they are close to victory or can gain something else really big. That or they are in great danger of their own death. Darla wasn't in imediate danger when this all began. She was not yet in the light until she made this post:

Chenshi,

You've really got to post some content. I'm glad you're posting, but you're still just acting like "I'm confused" and not really doing much. It's why I've got my vote on you and its why its staying there for now.

I endorse this product or service.

As far as keeping both alive goes I am not one to consider such ideas. We should lynch scum. If it is later determined they are both town by some means of discussion perhaps I'll change my mind, but I highly doubt they're both town for many reasons.
1) inconsitances and issues I see with Darla's PR
2) same name with different power
3) same guard showcased as most important guard
I'd think at the very least you'd see some distinction that showed another guard or something.

Something else I should say. In Doctor Who Mafia 2
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6617
The SK and cult recruiter had safe claims while the mafia did not. there are insane numbers of characters in Doctor Who. There are insane numbers of sketches in monty python. Scum having safe claims or not isn't something we should dwell on at this moment since them finding a character no one else has shouldn't be incredibly dificult.

[PokerFace]

Don't apoligize. I forgot about it completely aswell when this claim war began. That is the answer, I rather expected. I wanted to see what kind of distinction you were drawing there and I'm betting that may be the distinction alot of user's made. Something else I wanted to look at was whether luigi explicity said he was confused in general to the day and not just to the linking. Did I miss him explicitly saying that or did other players just say that?

_________________

vote chenhsi

Discuss.

Well either

A

)

You really think chenhsi is scum which could make you a hippocrit pending your reasoning and why you'd lynch him over someone involved in the claim war.

B

)

You are trying to create/fuel a distraction from the Claim war.

Silly

)

You are trying to metaphorically say that would be a distraction

More Silly

)

You are trying to show us chenhsi is not the only one lurking. And show us you are also lurking, so we should look at and discuss you both

Or Even More Sillier

)

You are metaphorically trying to show us chenhsi is not the only one lurking. Show us you are also lurking and that the only reason we are discussing the both of you is because you came and posted with little to say, which ironically is why some of us began to look at darla.

_________________

In general you just made my brain hurt.

@chenhsi and Killa7,

what do you two guys think of the recent claim vs claim situation that has been going on? Who do you believe is town and/or scum and why? Do you think it is possible both are scum? Do you think its possible both are town?

Pending on what comes up today (in RL and in the game) I may go into Strappado's earlier comments. I am not saying she is the lynch today just that I wanted to comment on her much earlier and just never got around to it since I was busy considering other stuff. Perhaps I'll wait until a time she is the best lynch to discuss it. Since i could be wrong about her in hindsight and I'd hate to distract things.

See you guys later.

[PokerFace]

Jester speculation, cult speculation, lyncher speculation = bad. No need to distract or speculate until there is definite reason for their existance and I have seen no definite reason for it yet. And by definite reason I mean a recruit is dead. Lycher's and Jester's are rarely in large games anyway and since them winning never auto ends the game, I don't care if they win because town can still win later on.

Also I agree with practically everything SpyreX said in posts 506 and 514 and I like what Azimuth said about her defeatism. She needs to respond to why she has not given recent content. Also I humbly enforce this policy with respect to any other players with PRs:

The forcing-a-modkill gambit, regardless of its effectiveness, makes me feel dirty. I don't feel like forcing potential modkills ought to be an ethical game mechanic.

I'm down for lynching DBE, but I (morally) oppose the modkill plan.

As far as directing your night action SpyreX, I say we should not. You should make that decision yourself on who to target and you can tell us about it tomorrow should it be of help to us finding scum. Broadcasting it in thread now before you use it, will just allow scum to prepare for it later.

About recent discussion on theory of what claims would likly exist in this game. Before this claim war began and ninja stepped forward, I didn't think any movie character would be in this game. So I can feasibly see scum trying to get away with an early claim of a movie character and one that is not as iconic as the "Knights who say ni". I don't think we should speculate on matters of what may and may not be in the setup any further, since role speculation gives scum ideas that we should keep shut.

_________________

I am willing to risk a modkill but while i have votes on me, my PR is nulled.

I

am

a french tauner (this may sound super wifom-y but its the truth)

Why would i fake claim on day one with 2 votes on me? Why would I keep a consistent flavor in my posts, (thats a lot to keep up with in a large game especially once you start getting past day 1. )

The fact that no one seems able to consider that there could be TWO french taunters is really strange, I'm starting to think shaft wanted to have a bit of fun, and create a bit of mischief.

Its not like i randomly pulled something out of a hat at L-1, I claimed what I was, and tried to get out what I was in my post sans the restriction, on the chance anyone un-voted and i had my PR re-instated.

Also its been asked by others but seems to be avoided by spyrex:

Why did you not say something before hand when you saw a consistent French Taunter flavor in my posts? Did you not get suspicious?

You would claim early and fake post restriction so that you would have evidence to support against further accusations, making you lose suspicion and protection against further accusation, and possibly even gain doc protection.

We have considered the possiblity of two french taunters,

but found it to be far too silly.

Yes some people have discussed that possibility, and you must now be just agreeing with it since you weren't very prolific during that part of the discussion since you were V/la. Unless you take part during the discussion, don't try to later say "we" like that since it sounds like you are trying to take credit for it.

_________________

Jordan recently said part of what I had a problem with pretaining to strapado.

I still say we get rid of Imaginality to eliminate the Bruce confusion.

Having a PR is not scummy, therefore it's a terrible reason to lynch someone.

FOS: strappado

LATER AMENDMENT TO THIS POINT: Why target only Imaginality for your vote when others (eg. Lord Gurgi) also have PR's, especially since LG's PR is, if anything, more annoying and makes him less useful as Imaginality.

...

Sure, I'd much rather vote someone because they said something like, "Oh, my role? I'm mafi--oops oops, I mean...errrrm...I'm a notorious silly walker, yes yes, nothing to see here, move along" ...but unfortunately nothing like that has happened so I'm going with the possible least helpful member of the cast, until something better comes along.

Just because nothing obviously scummy has happened yet doesn't mean that nothing scummy has happened at all, it is always better to vote for someone because they're scummy than for any other reason...

Though Jordan's early random posts suggested going after the silly
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#1137503
I can see some level of confusion over lynching silly vs lynching scum considering the opening flavor so perhaps I'll allow some of that to slide for both Jordan and Strappado. Strappado's exchange with mirth had decent reasoning so I don't believe it was OMGUS despite it being retailitory. But I wonder if Strappado still finds mirth scummy. The caution mirth has exhibited as of late vs her early vote hoping is a rather odd, but since the hoping occured during random vote time I don't see it as much to suspect, and I also don't think caution is much of a scumtell. Does Strappado disagree with me?

Something else that makes me feel odd about Strappado is how she "practicly" defended luigi for doing something rather silly which would be in contrast of Strappado's early "lynch the silly" charge.

EBWOP: I'm not trying to defend Luigi, I just think that his backwards post wasn't all that scummy. I think chensi's (feigned) confusion and refusal to vote, even randomly, is more scummy.

Note I'm not trying to argue semantics (I said "practically), so don't take offense to that, but is there a reason you don't want to come off like you are defending him? Unless strapado has truly/sincerely changed game plans from "lynch the silly" to "lynch the scummy", she was being rather hypocritical for playing favorites towards Luigi.

Something else that bothers me is how she was on darla and then she was off. She was the first one to suggest the possibility of 2 players being the taunter:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 55#1150455
Either she brought up the idea so her scum buddy could use it, or DBE has simply snatched up the idea as a last resort defence. Regardless her going on and off seem a little suspect to me.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 80#1150480
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#1150503
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 14#1150514
I am seeing a possible DBE, Luigi, Strappado and probably some others scum group.

@Strappado,

do you still find Mirth scummy? If so why? If we were to lynch someone other than DBE today, who would you like to lynch? Do you find said target silly? What is your current view of Darla?

_________________

@Darla,

How many warnings have you recieved so far?
Also please do tell me if you have gotten anything besides warnings as of late?
I'm at work and unable to find exact post on this part. I want only Darla to answer both of these for me.

Lastly, On flavor alone I am fairly certain the person I am searching for, who has some cigarettes and matches, is either Town or they don't exist, meaning I got nerfed. I suppose it is also possible they want to keep silent for other reasons. (10% chance they are scum, 55% chance I got nerfed they don't exist, 35% chance they are town and not said anything yet). I am willing to respect their hiding I guess, so unless someone wants to claim to be the one I am looking for, I'm just going to have to assume they want to stay silent, since I am rather stuborn at giving up entirely. See you guys later I'm getting hungry.

[PokerFace]

Pokerface, what do you think of Iron Man?

I posted this quote earlier but didn't go deep into it:

Other comments I'll make at this time Ironman should definatly be looked at for obv reasons others have brought up. I don't want him to claim more of his role I want him to read the thread when he votes.

How Ironman hopped on and from luigi's and DBE's wagons are reasons to suspect him in general.

Ok, Luigi was definitly trying to fake a restriction. That calls for a

Unvote, Vote Luigi Gangsta

.

Unvote

Ok, I'm way too lazy to do a re-read, but apparently I'm getting the impression that Darla claimed and then got a counter, so I'll go ahead and do a

Vote: DBE

It isn't/wasn't definite that luigi was faking one then. I can see him just acting silly back then. At that time, it being a fake restriction, was only something people speculated on. He needs to read the thread and not just agree or jump to conclusions.

The early discussion that was about guessing ironman's role is bad in hindsight. I wish I hadn't contributed to it since that stuff has clouded up a bit of the thread. I brought up some stuff about my own flavor because i thought it would be useful to me and perhaps others in order to help figure some things out. Ironman brought up this guessing game of his for:

To tell the truth, I was bored and was looking for some fun.

Since this is Monty Python mafia,

I thought a deviation from the norm was in order

.

So you claimed because you wanted to do something completely different?

That reason is rather bad since I see no good purpose in it. I am not about to ask him to full claim since it still may be best for him to keep it secret. I can see why you guys would like him to full claim, but I am rather against him telling us all everything at this point since the scum would hear it too.

This is of course assuming he is town. If he is scum, then they would already know what ironman knows. Should we all later come to the agreement that he has a good chance of being scum and needs to be lynched, then we should definatly hear what all he is then. I see reasons to suspect Iron man, but I'm not fully convinced he is scum since I need to see more content input from him. His lurking as of late is bad, but I don't think he is the lynch target for today. So I am rather hesitate to having him claim more and put more info out in the open. I think he should only claim further now if he feels the town would actually benefit from knowing more. If there would be no benefit, then I think he should keep such things quiet.

[PokerFace]

@chenhsi and Killa7,

what do you two guys think of the recent claim vs claim situation that has been going on? Who do you believe is town and/or scum and why? Do you think it is possible both are scum? Do you think its possible both are town?

I don't feel either of them is the lynch today, but they should comment on the current situation. A wagon on one of them would be better saved for tomorrow since it can distract things from what I feel is more important.

[PokerFace]

Also I agree with practically everything SpyreX said in posts 506 and 514...

No longer at work so i think I shall clarify this better then just using the word "Practically".

Ok, my case on DBE:

1.) You didn't ever address my question about providing content.
2.) You claimed the exact same role as me, but with a different function.
3.) You somehow have a PR when I do not.
4.) You make suggestions that there are two of the exact same role, yet you ask me questions implying that there isn't (why didn't I say something sooner)
5.) Your flavor regarding breaking your PR is not the same as everyone else.

Why these bother me:
1.) A PR is no excuse to not provide content.
2.) I'm still new, but the only time I've seen the same role is when it is the EXACT same (I've read a lot of games not on here too).
3.) Why would you have a PR and I not if we are the same role?
4.) You play both sides of the fence on this issue: I do not think there are two French Taunters, period.
5.) Why is this different from the other townsfolk that have PR's? In fact, why is most things about your claim different from the other people? I don't think the mod would actively be screwing with us, so.

I have said clearly that i don't believe it would make any sense for Darla to fake a PR right from her first post if she was scum by herself, it could possibly help her lynch the true french taunter but more than likely get her lynched so she would have no reason to do it. And how would she even think that up from the start of the game along with the PR?.

I've got the main assumption for my arguments: The scum were not given claims.

So, with that in mind, lets look at the game. Before DBE posts AT ALL Albatross and Bruce come into it with their post restrictions. Hell, at that point even I could be said to have a PR (I was joking with the something completely different).
Lets look at her first two posts, as well:

ahh, we have begun!!!
Voteth:Iron Man
what be this man made of Iron? Surely it is the work of evil.

How darest thou correct a lady!!
vote: mirth for disrespect!
SHAME!!

Neither of those really show the PR. Hell, her 2 and 3 posts ALSO dont. So, lets not say from post 1.

Now, as scum, why fake a PR?
Its a shield. Especially one like the one she's claiming (a method to avoid delivering content).

Also, with multiple PR's it would make sense to do one...

......

Another interesting point, what are the chances that of all the Monty Python characters, she fakes your one, and upon seeing the character in the Holy Grail sketch give it the same name the mod gave it? The chances are that if she was on her own and faking a Monty Python character that from all the characters in all the Monty Python movies and TV shows, she would pick one that was not given to one of us.

Assuming a passing knowledge of Monty Python, pretty high, actually. The taunter is one of the most remembered roles of Holy Grail which is, of course, the most well known Python movie.
The flipside to this, and what I've been saying: Given all the characters and roles and everything else, why would we have TWO french taunters? Why?

I believe that if she is faking the French Taunter, you guys would be in it together, a clever strat that would require planning from before the game started. This would benefit the scum of this game because you would be cleared of suspicion for the rest of the game, if Darla was scum by herself she would have nothing to gain from faking French Taunter, the risks would outweigh the benefits.

I believe she's a roleblocker faking the taunter because she had no real role to give in a flavorful situation. Again, I should not and will not be freed of suspicion by a good town by this.

How am I next if Darla is found to be scum? It would make far more sense that you are in it with Darla than me.

The fact you've been scummy this game independently of this issue and the fact you said to hang me if I'm scum? Yea, thats pretty good day 1 if I'd say so myself...

......

If neither of you are scum, which i believe is the most likely option:
These previous arguments are irrelevant, Darla will be proved innocent.
The mod will be having a laugh, he will have made both the French Taunters have different abilities to create suspicion and get them both lynched. This would have been easy for the mod to do, would require far less planning than you two faking it together and make far more sense than Darla faking it herself.

Why would the mod give two power roles that are, of course, going to get each other hung if the alignment is the same? I haven't played in games with shaft.ed but that seems like a very bizarre play to me.

I dont know why "the mod fucking with us" is your most likely case.

I never said that, and never will. That would be an easy case to make considering how quickly everyone hopped on the Darla wagon, and how everyone believes that one of you is scum, so that if she is innocent they will immediately suspect you. However, if Darla is proven innocent, I will defend you and follow other leads, and if i don't you can make a case against me for lying. If Darla is innocent, which i believe will happen, us 2 will stop accusing each other and both have to fend off the massive band wagon that will probably start against you.
But let's save most of the 'if Darla is scum then you are in it with her' arguments for when Darla gets lynched, because if she gets proven innocent all those arguments will be irrelevant and we will have wasted a whole lot of time arguing a moot point.

I'm not saving it. I'm making it clear right now based on your play. Yes, it is going to be an easy push to get me lynched if Darla is innocent AND yes, I expect it to happen if she is. However, the way it goes will give some definite benefit to the town AND, of course, I'm not going to buddy up to you because you're defending me. You've been behaving scummy and this doesn't change that to me.

Another thing about this post, you seem overly confident that she will be proven guilty, i.e you are telling us to kill you if she doesn't. This futhers my belief that you are both in the same boat, i.e you are either both scum so you know she will be found guilty and can safely make point number 2 without being lynched the next day. Or you are both innocent and neither of you can believe that the mod would have given you the same role with a different ability so you both genuinely believe that the other is scum so you are throwing it all on the line to get her lynched.

I'm not telling the town to kill me - it is a logical conclusion. In a game with this many roles assuming two power roles with the same name exist and are the same alignment (P.S. this is what you've said) is nowhere near Occam's Razor. I dont think the mod is screwing with us, I think we've hit a definite lynch-worthy issue day 1 and if I am wrong (the mod is screwing with us) I honestly dont expect the town to believe me - part of why I'm being this direct now is because on that offchance I am wrong I want the town to read this after I am lynched; namely, hanging you.

Why you said what you said isn't the crux. It's the end results of it.
If I am right, I'm killing a scum and your response is to kill a claimed power role.
If I am wrong, I've killed a power role and your response is to let me (who would be very suspicious at that point) live.

That plan makes a lot of sense as scum. Not so much as town.

(Yes I am irritated because I was floored by your statements - if, between the two of you, there isn't scum I am going to get a shafted voodoo doll AND cry myself to sleep)

The parts I've quoted here on Darla and luigi are good and I did say some of these points earlier. These are what I am mainly agreeing with.

_________________

Also

Now: Luigi Gangster - When DBE does flip scum, you're next.
1.) You setup a case where if I am right, you want me hung.
2.) Your other alternative is easy enough to say - if I'm wrong, the town WILL and SHOULD probably hang me because, yes, the chances of two of the same role are low and you could distance yourself from it.

3.) You, too, haven't provided much content (and most of your content has revolved around faking a PR).

4.) The majority of your other posts are noise with no signal.

I don't agree with point 3. I can see how that might have all been "Let's be silly". I don't see point 4 as a great bit of evidence, because I'm not certain how he is applying it to Luigi. Luigi's post #512 has relevant content despite me not agreeing with it.

I think the weak possibility of them both being scum is merely just an idea to keep in the back of your mind. It is possible, but i find it highly unlikly. IMO should this claim war end with the result Darla = scum, I will simply be going after someone else I find scummy. Since I see no greatly individually scummy behavior coming yet from spyreX, i won't be going after him then. With that in mind I see the possibility of them both being scum just as a conspiracy theory. Unless I later find a reason to see him as scum, i won't be looking into that theory. So I see no point in a player greatly stressing that theory as Luigi has done. He is stressing it so much I am starting to wonder if he already knows Darla is scum, and he wants to setup a case for tomorrow on SpyreX in advance.

Also there is one problem I do see with post 506.

If DBE is scum, I'd request a doc tonight.

Never ask for this. No matter what your role is, no matter what it is you do, never ever direct the doc in any setup. Let any possible doc(s?) choose who they want to protect by themselves.

As it stands, i have not read deeply into this recent case on mirth, I don't recall finding her all that scummy earlier. I'll read the recent postings, and if there is something I feel like commenting on I'll bring it up.

It would be nice if shaft.ed fixed some of the tags in posts #543

(maybe also even the tags in #480 asuming that is remotly savable and not all contained in spyreX's later posting)

<<Still needs cigs and thinks mirth's alergies to smoke must suck. I like fish and I laughed very hard at imaginality's recent "bruce" post.

Even with my laidback Aussie philosopher outlook on life, I find myself becoming more and more tempted to take a fish in each hand and slap Bruce in the face with them until he starts contributing

something

to this game. I agree with Bruce that Bruce (and Bruce) aren't the lynch for today, but the longer Bruce's non-participation continues the more anti-town it becomes.

[PokerFace]

Forgot to re-mention this in respect to luigi

There is also something I want to note. I mentioned the possibility of Darla setting up a scapegoat for herself. I saw this post a little while ago and I wonder if this is her setting up a scapegoat for a cronny.

Luigi, I am assuming you MUST post a link every post?

and hat do you mean by 'Must be Fake?'

Its a general thought I have. I also would like some time to get a look at what strapado has been saying since her early let's lynch the silly thing makes me wonder about her and her recent comments. I am at work right now so doing deep analysis on a player is not easy, but I'd like to check a couple of theorys I have in my head out if you guys would be willing to give me the time.

Considering all that I've said and the recent exchange between Gurgi and Strappado I really like the idea of a Darla, luigi, strappado, ?others? scumgroup. I am fairly ready to end the day at this point as long as we give people one last chance to check in and say anything pretaining to wagons and cigs. Going to read all that stuff on mirth now and will comment on that should I feel its necessary.

[PokerFace]

No that just puts her at L-1 even with imaginality. It 9 to no lynch and 10 to lynch. Also I've read through the recent exchange with mirth and spyreX. I don't find mirth scummy. A couple of things SpyreX said were a bit off in context almost reaching, but nothing I'm greatly concerned with at the momment. A couple of the things he says pretaining to setup speculation also bother me, but i'm still convinced darla is the lynch.

1)

At work. Going to word that a bit better since this is a point i want to make about darla's supposed PR. Rudeness =/= contentlessness. Can't you insult people and still give content?

Examples:
You worthless gits! I disagree with your opinion about _____ I think _____ etc.
OR
Copying Scumbags, you reek of flounder simply because you got to post that opinion first! My opinion is the same as yours and also _________

Remember this? I believe you could have posted content if you used this method. Correct?

_________________

2)Should the last idea fail in allowing you to give content, why didn't you think of using this simple idea before the wagon formed on you?:

unvote vote: yourself

Hi, I believe (Insert Content here)
...
(End content)

unvote vote: someone else

Insults*

_________________

Also, Poker, are you thinking what I am in response to DBE's warnings about her post restriction versus the number of posts she has without the PR? I have to assume thats why you asked and, of course, they dont add up.

I will reveal what I was thinking to that in my next post. I think its about time we end this waltz since I've seen enough discussion and I like the idea of a Darla, luigi, strappado, ?others? scumgroup. I got something that will further disprove the PR part of her claim. I'll write that part of this post up when I am not at work.

[PokerFace]

Yes, in rereading for the most part I do not find mirth scummy as well.
What setup speculation have I talked about

except them not having safeclaims?

I can see DBE, Luigi, but strap? I guess I just need to see the case again because I'm developing tunnel vision.

Yay thats pretty much it and the whole bringing up jester and lyncher stuff. They could have claims, they could not have claims. Regardless with all the sketches there are in monty python I doubt it would be difficult for them to find something safe to claim.

As far as strappado goes I'll probably have to explain that all out another day its rather complicated. If you want you can look at my posts to see what it means based on her previous responses and what not, but I probably won't be going after her for awhile compared to luigi and should something come up that I believe proves my analysis to be wrong about her then so be it.

<<Waits on darla
<<waits on ironman
(I think he should only finish claim if it would benefit the town. What does everyone else say?)
<<gives lurkers time to say anything they want too

after i give the last part of the case I promised before, I will have no qualms with someone hammering.

[PokerFace]

Well I am at home and its time I bring this up.

AH HA!

I have votes now!

Thank you for freeing me.

Yes I am a French Taunter. I must be annoying and insulting to anyone who asks me a question or asks me to do something. (as a Posting Restriction) Also, I may only break character if you will to announce v/al or that my status whilst being away (I checked ^^)

also I must be insulting to anyone once a substantial Bandwagon has formed.

Now That there is a vote on me (or two?) I am allowed a nice post.

So Let me say that I do not like luigi's play with the seemingly fake PR. (Mine's quite fun but can seem to get me into some trouble xD)

And let's see. First you insult and then you nice and then you must insult again because there is a substaintial wagon is on you. That just don't look right. I'm guessing this may be what mirth meant by senclessness

You are curently at L-1.
8 + Bruce = 9, lynch is at 10.
I would certainly call this a substantial wagon on you and yet you responded nicely to farside without insulting her while you were at L-2.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 58#1153358
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 95#1153695
You also just responded nicely to me about penalties. And your last post while you were at L-1 was also insult-free. Explain why you didn't insult me? Your claim says you got to insult when there be a big wagon out there. Unless I be misreading, I highly encourage someone hammering. And the best part is, you can't back track and say you got more than one penalty for these actions that I believe break your PR. Think you can explain yourself out of this Darla?

[PokerFace]

So in these theme games with so a vast array of characters and abilities, is it common to discuss all night actions, or play it close to the vest? What's the custom?

Player discretion, I'd say. If you have a night action you feel ought to be revealed, then reveal it.

I agree with ninja. If you feel said info is absolutly necessary to help the town at this moment then you can give it. Otherwise you may want to keep it for yourself to use later. You can always breadcrumb it anyway. Only game type where all night actions are always discussed is small town and this is not a small town game.

I must say that I am now more confused about my role's use and flavor then I was day 1. I think I was either targetted by alot of people last night or I have simply been reading my role entirly wrong this whole time. I'm going to need a moment to figure this all out.

First thing I want to know about is who SpreX targeted last night. The Role reveal says Darla was a french taunter and was also scum. I definatly wasn't expecting her to be both of those. I don't know what that may mean for SpyreX since the rational behind a counterclaim as scum would be crazy, but even I feel we should learn what SpreX did last night because of this matter. If he really is indeed a second taunter/role attractor I want to know what's up with his actions.

Also @Elvis,

1) I

now

assume you don't have cigarettes and matches for me. But can you "

paraphrase

" what you heard from me instead of that? My english is a bit rusty.
2) And also does the phrase: "The queen or mother has elephant ankles" mean anything to you? You can just say yes or no if you don't want to elaborate on this one. This flavor of mine is confusing.

I'll bring up my earlier case on Strappado later on should I feel its still relevant. Looks like we are dealing with a cult because of the role reveal on Luigi being an unrecruiter. And it also looks like the Spainish Inquistion is responsible for Bruce's Death. I don't know if that makes the inquistion scum or not but these are things we should keep in mind.

[PokerFace]

I understand what you are saying Mirth. The phrase role attractor would describe SpyreX better since he said he didn't role block.

Also I am fairly certain DBE's post restriction was BS since she claimed only 1 warning penalty and what I outlined in post #590 clearly shows she should have gotten more.

[PokerFace]

Despite all the crap I was hit with last night, I do not believe bridgekeeper was among them.

Also, yes elvis that was probably me. I crumbed what it was I really asked about and I guess I have my answer to that and I now know what it is you heard instead of my question.

Also @Elvis,

1)

I

now

assume you don't have cigarettes and matches for me.

But can you "paraphrase" what you heard from me instead of that? My english is a bit rusty.

LOL. Okay. Last night I was received a "visitor." The player was not revealed to me, but shaft.ed gave me a message. I am not allowed to quote it (I was warned), but I can paraphrase it. The message was a sort of weird innuendo involving alpacas, (would I perform something on his mischevious alpaca?). I thought it was pokerface at the time because I think his role is the dirty hungarian (as I posted yesterday). I do not however know what he was really trying to ask me, or what his deal is with the cigarettes and matches.

I don't have cigarettes or matches

.

It appears I ended up asking you a completly different question, but you were still able to help me figure somethings out. Needless to say at this point, shaft.ed is having fun with this game. I kinda wish you, elvis, hadn't tried to guess my role name, but I suppose I did go overboard on my breadcrumbing on day 1. Because Elvis made a guess is why we just went through this craziness about a visit. I will not confirm or denie if your guess is correct or not. I know the answer, but I don't feel that info is helpful to the town right now. I also will not confirm or denie at this time what it is my role's crazy flavor and junk really mean. And that's because I don't know this answer entirely yet. I'm still looking for some kind of pattern or means of figuring that out. But I can say that I don't think I am looking for a prostitute. I don't know what sketch you are talking about there Mirth. Still though should I end up figuring things out and I later feel I know something useful to the town, I will be glad to tell it to all of you then.

<<Waits for others to weigh in on bridgekeeper nonsence. I want to know who SpyreX targeted soon.

[PokerFace]

If you want to be propositioned about beastiality, talk to pokerface.

Oh dear lord. This is by far one of if not the funiest games I've ever been in. So noming shaft.ed for a scummy when this is all done. Shaft.ed is having way too much fun because I, in no way, was trying to ask something about that. When this game is over I will want to know what it is I really said word for word instead of the exact question I've been asking all game about cigs and matches.

[PokerFace]

That is how I say I am laughing so hard that I am crying.

[PokerFace]

Mirth is correct in post #645. What I said/asked about is outlined/underlined back in post #615. Muerto also gives a good summary of it all in #648. What elvis really heard however is paraphased in post #608 and then some. Things can't be quoted word for word because of fear of modkillings. I have learned some things based on what was said, and should that knowledge become helpful later I'll tell it to you all then, don't worry. This game is non-stop fun.

I kinda wish you, elvis, hadn't tried to guess my role name, but I suppose I did go overboard on my breadcrumbing on day 1.

I'm sorry if it screws something up for you, but you seemed to keep asking about the cigs yesterday and it seemed that you needed help of some sort. In all the craziness, I recognized the quote about "my nipples explode with delight" and was trying to help.

Also don't worry about it. You didn't screw anything up to my knowledge and I actually think this may have been helpful. I'd like to know what sketch mirth was refering to about prostitution just in case I am wrong about having nothing to do with that. I normally don't play with this kind of style where I have some info known and unknown. I prefer secrecy overall. If i wasn't so far in the dark on it myself, I wouldn't have brought any of it into light. I just hope i'm right about a few things and the other ace I have keeps me safe overall. I don't know much about this arrest stuff here. It may be the only thing that can hurt me for all i know because not much was said or shown pretaining to that.

also, there's a monty python skit where someone is trying to ask for a cigarette and matches and a conversation ensues with shoddy translation books and eventually one or the other is dragged off by the police...I'm a little rusty on it though, I'd have to do some youtube searching...but that's who I think pokerface is.

More people should post about that bridgekeeper stuff since I am anxious to have that matter solved so I can hear about SpyreX's action. I brought up keeping the night's cult stuff flavor in our minds earlier.

[PokerFace]

Mirth and farside, stop phishing about K7 there.

Poker what action did strappaddo do last night?

I'll/we'll (k7 and I) will probably explain this mess later on. There is a reason I have not brought this up yet.

[PokerFace]

I'm lost. It's obvious what K7 is implying? Could you let me in on it, cuz I have no idea. Just what do you think I did to Pokerface?

calm down. I'll shed light on this matter soon enough. I have good reason to hold this info for the moment, but I assure you it will get sorted out by the end of the day. Calm down.

<<Goes to watch python episode with sketch Mirth talked about. More on all this later, be patient

[PokerFace]

I already said before that I don't believe i was visited by any bridgekeeper. So that's a No

I have got to thank mirth for that link she posted. That sketch is not very well known. I had forgotten of its existence. I couldn't find it on you tube either, I had to bust out my old python collection and look for that episode myself since the link did say what episode it was in. In that sketch Mirth linked, Terry Jones, plays a shop owner and that same shop apears layout wise and everything in a few monty python sketches with Terry Jones being the most common cashier or owner. I think the Terry Jones of my sketch has what I want. And I believe the script you posted doesn't feature me. Like I've been saying i don't think I'm 'purposly' trying to get prostitution or other sexual favors. I want something else as already stated despite how furry i may be.

I said yes to alpaca sandwich because I thought pokerface was one of the alpacas. He is so soft and furry.

:beard scratch:

As far as the me & K7 thing, you will see. I actually wish K7 had been more subtle about all that. Its rather complicated since he knows the why and how behind it all while I just know the end result. Since you appear to have no clue as to what we are talking about I'm begining to think what I know isn't a bad or incriminating thing. K7 since you brought it up in the first place, you still want me to say something blatantly or would you rather I try and be subtle about it since that was my original intention?

[PokerFace]

Some of what people are saying is a reach here, but knowing something is in a setup is indeed bizarre. How could you know that? Also

Will everyone please chime in what they think of Spryex's bridgekeeper stuff? I'd like to hear an opinion from everyone - I think the information is important enough to warrant discussion.

I'm not really looking for speculation on a powerrole, I'm looking for opinions on Spryex's post. i.e., do you think he's telling the truth about being visited, and if not, what reason do you think he'd have to lie about it.

Mirth seems to be leaning towards him lying, I'm wondering what everyone else thinks.

When one asks for discussion shouldn't one be willing to give there own opinion first? Do you think SpyreX should say his target? Do you believe him?

I'll have a big post up with my view when work ends or after drinking tonight. My lunch is about to end at work right now.

[PokerFace]

<<Boss stepped out for a moment.

I want to make sure I just read something right.

@Strappado,

you said giving reason as to why you know "Mr. Vibrating" is in the game" would reveal your role. Yes?

Which one in argument clinic is he again? Abuser, complainer, arguer, head hitter or the one who goes there for the argument?

[PokerFace]

I want to make sure I just read something right.

@Strappado,

you said giving reason as to why you know "Mr. Vibrating" is in the game" would reveal your role. Yes?

All I want is a yes or a no

[PokerFace]

@Spyre X,

are you certain you were only hit by 1 or is there only 1 you know of that targeted you?

[PokerFace]

Had to move my younger brother for part of today and yesterday so i didn't go drinking after work but am rather tired for a big post.

@spyreX,

a couple of questions
1) You were told the bridgekeeper was the one asking the questions or did you guess you were talking to the bridgekeeper based on the type of questions?
2) Are you certain it was Tracker, Role Cop, Regular cop? Could there have been some other level of flavor cop?

[PokerFace]

Ok I'll adress a few things that have been going here. My brother was moved in and I drank after that. I had to follow the Bruce's 4th rule. Words to the wise, beers like Natural Light and Natural Ice are like Making Love in a Canoe. They're Fucking Close To Water. I will never drink those again no matter how low on cash I get. I am awake and sober now so let's do this.

I have some problems with Strappado and some problems with SpyreX. Until at least one these problems are cleared up or figured out I won't be voting one over the other.

Problem with SpyreX,

Last night I did indeed target Elvis. My role is rather complicated with how my night action works and gets modified. I brought up my night action early today after giving out some crumbs yesterday in an attempt to find a pattern in its translations, so perhaps I can eventually actually be able to use it for something more after I find some

smokes and matches

. Not sure what I'd use it for then but i'll figure something out. Should anyone get a mysterious perverted message tonight understand that it really is me and what I am actually asking for from you has been underlined so hook me up.

If someone wants to claim to be the person with these materials that would make things easier.

Otherwise I have been left to comtiplate the possibility that my search may be futile and that my roles true purpose would then escape me. With that there are more confusing features that I will not mention at this time about my role. Considering the craziness of my role I am willing to believe a bridgekeeper could exist but there is still a problem here.

Early today, Elvis said she "thought" it was me that targeted her. I assume this means she did not recieve confirmation of it being me. She was not told it was PokerFace or that the person targeting her was yes "The Dirty Hungarian Tourist" (come on I made it too obvious).

And if Elvis wasn't told it was me outside of following my crumbs and guessing, then how was SpyreX told he was targeted by the bridgekeeper?

There is more to my problem with SpyreX then just this. I don't want to reveal that part just yet. There is also more to my problem with Strappado in the unrevealed part and they will be both explained in a future post. It is possible I could have caught 2 scums today and they would most likely be in different scum groups since they are fueding with each other. I need SpyreX's answer first before I can proceed. Regardless no one should quick lynch either of the two of them since there is more to this situation then you have all been told yet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And now its lesson time...

Students, students settle down those looking for the italian, hungarian, and german classes are all in the wrong room, get out! The following is the more correct proper procedure any player should follow with respect to being a Role Attractor which in the past I have seen in other games is really a limited lightning rod

with no roleblock involved.

All I wanted from SpyreX at the start of the day was a name of the player he targeted. The fact that you are alive would have told us you weren't a scum kill target and that your target didn't send any kill. You should be using your role for the purpose of seeing if your target is a scum making kills over night. By crumbing who you'll target before you do it. And then revealing who you hit the next day should you have alreadyed claimed your role and fallen under suspicion where target claiming is necessary.

You shouldn't be using it to out players roles like saying there may or may not be bridgekeeper that targeted you. You ultimatly only know a roles flavor and not its alignment at this point pretaining to the possible existance of a bridgekeeper. Telling everyone including scum that such a role can exist is a bad idea without really good reason. Revealing things "needlessly" has already been seen as bad in this game. That breaks rule 6 of how I play. Oh wait there is no rule six so let's just say it breaks a conduct rule.

For now it is just known someone that hit you didn't succeed in killing you. Telling us Mr. X didn't kill you is a better way to utilize your role for the rest of the game without implying further knowledge of what your target could be. That's what i think you should do with your role on future nights, should you live today and not turn up scum. This way we don't even know if Player X did an action to you (They could be vanilla) and the scum don't know what Player X did if anything either. Only gained knowledge is they didn't send a kill which I think is the better knowledge the town should learn over, My target X could be this role.

Muerto has a thing for teaching newbies just on his playstyle of joining so many newbie games. Should he disagree with the lesson I am imparting here to any role attractors for any games then he is welcomed and encouraged to correct me.

Note

: If my mafia experience is correct Darla lied about PR and role action by adding the roleblock part since all but 1 role attractor I've seen didn't role block. And the one that did role block was called something different a "Reflex Roleblocking RoleAttractor". And to Reflex Roleblock means to block anything that targets you. Since Darla didn't turn up that entire thing I think its possible she could have truly been eveything SpyreX says he is. This is kind involved in my lesson and what problems I have with SpyreX. more on all problems and stuff pertaining to Strappado in a future post.

[PokerFace]

There is more to my problem with SpyreX then just this. I don't want to reveal that part just yet. There is also more to my problem with Strappado in the unrevealed part and they will be both explained in a future post.

It is possible I could have caught 2 scums today and they would most likely be in different scum groups since they are fueding with each other.

I need SpyreX's answer first before I can proceed.

Regardless no one should quick lynch either of the two of them since there is more to this situation then you have all been told yet.

QFE

(Quoted for emphasis)

[PokerFace]

Very well Elvis. I think i trust you at this moment simply because of how helpful you were earlier today. If I have understood you wrongly and you were told specifically that you were "touched" by the "Dirty Hungarian Tourist" during the might or something else to that degree please let me now.

Also another idea, I also want to know who Ironman targeted last night since it may effect some things I know. Current question I will also voice towards Strappado is please say who you targeted and full claim.

AFTER Ironman gives his info.

I think it would be good for you to do that then.

If someone disagrees with us being told any info mentioned here please do so and say why NOW. I am open to thoughts if I be wrong on all this and keeping as much info secret as possible is desired. I think I can catch at least 1 scum today and possibly more pending answers and if all I know and assume is correct.

[PokerFace]

damn my inuendo got ruined a bit
...touched by the "Dirty Hungarian Tourist" during the night...
I love this game

Not sure if the adjective dirty will be there or not but it is obvious who i am at this point. While which alpaca in the stack I be will be left up to your imagination.

[PokerFace]

Poker - if you're going with what I think you are - I'm not the bridgekeeper.

Mirth - I said I DID search youtube and google, but came up with nothing, had no idea who he was or how important it might be to the game - so I asked....and then I searched again and got results, so I must have entered it wrong the first time 'cuz I got a lot of dildo adverts on google

<LOL>

the first couple times (go fig). Now that I've read up on who he was, it doesn't seem like his role would be that incredibly important, or even necessarily scum, so knowing he's in the game doesn't really crack it. I think that's more clear...yes?

I think Mirth means this Elvis. But I am not certain strappado is thinking 100% like I am. There is more to be seen i believe.

Side note - I have posted probably too much today. Spam, spam, spam spam! This is of course just a joke comment. I need to play my other games more than I am playing this one.

[PokerFace]

@Strappado,

You see the "characters" that target people and not the actually players that have those actions?
Is this correct, for that be wierd. Got a video?

I wanted ironman's target because I am wondering if he was involved in all this in anyway.

Since

Strap targeted SpyreX, and

if

Spyre also drew Strap to him then I doubt either of you would recieve confirmation since that is a third possibility of what could have happened. Something I did forget to mention earlier is that I 'did' recieve 'light' confirmation that Elvis was the one to send me a response to my skill so i know it worked and her actions at the start of the day further confirm that. I myself however was hit by more than just Elvis's response last night and i don't know what characters or players did all that other junk to me. There may even be more junk done to me then I know about. My problem with strappado looks already cleared up so I fear i may have caused a massive fopaw with my overzealousness. i am willing to believe her action, but I don't know of her alignment for now. I still want to see her video. And I want confirmation from spyreX on the question i gave earlier. If Elvis still feels like adding to this mess she can if she feels what she has to say still bears relevance.

If strappado speaks the truth about a bridgekeeper going to SpyreX then the only possiblity is they are both town or they are both scum. I am starting to lean toward the earlier. I'm going to take some time to think while I wait for SpyreX's answer. Here is my video to give you all a laugh while we wait. Its pretty much exactly what Elvis posted and a little more which revolves around confusion. The person i am looking for is mentioned in it early i believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6D1YI-41ao

Side Note

- Would the Spainish Inquistion be part of a cult or a mafia/scum group refered to as the "Evil Egoscentric Characters"?

K7 - do you have some smokes and matches for me or was that unrelated craziness since things be confusing in general. I promise i won't punch you or leave a scratch.

[PokerFace]

I can't force feed everything to you. There be tons of crazy ways to bread crumb things, you would just have to use your imagination and hope we'd be able to figure it out after your death. That's what hiders and weak docs do.

The doc can protect you if he wants and exists but I won't tell him to explicitly for he should have final say on doing that since it is his role and skill. We should not direct them.

I guess I'll just wait for Elvis, K7, and anyone else to say more then since I have easily posted too much today.

[PokerFace]

ok now I'm really fucking confused. This is the siliest game I've ever been in.

"Shall we stop it now?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5H6AdKUthg
Oh heaven's no*,

I'll reiterate based on what Muerto asked. I recieved very light confirmation that my skill did work on Elvis. The response relayed to me had her mentioned briefly in its tagging. For that reason and her actions early today, the fact she knew what I was talking about, I believe my action went sucessfully through.

I was also targeted by a bunch of other actions last night that i know of. Some had "noticable" effects on me (Meaning i was told of their effects) and there may be some that didn't "noticably" effect me but still hit me (Meaning I wasn't even told if they hit me). I know flavor and effects of the noticable ones that hit me but no definate answer as to who did the actions and what is the exact name of the character that did them.

I recieved confirmation I got Elvis's response and i believe that is only because that was my skill involved there. I recieved no great exact confirmation of who did some of the other junk to me. I got flavor and I can guess at what character's did some other stuff to me but no straight answer like "you were hit by Jon Doe" is present or...

Hi i did....

I suppose there is an outside chance the bridgekeeper role could just be differently organized than some other roles with the level of craziness i've seen in this game, but I still don't like how there is so much different. Not enough to throw a vote anywhere just yet but it still has "aroused" my interests.

I don't know if k7 should full claim and/or just give targets now pretaining to ironman's claim. I'd like to know if K7 or anyone else for that matter has some smokes for me, but looking back I think K7 should make any claim decision on his own based on what has been going on and if he believe's what he knows can successfully out someone as scum. We've had probally too much info go out in the open today so i'm not sure if we want more out there or not, but I guess I'll let K7 make the final call on that.

In response to ninja, I suppose you could be right there. I'm just going by what I percieved as the most likly odds based on who has said and verified what at which point. I guess I should hold off final judgment on all that until it is all solved to some degree.

[PokerFace]

so...do we get to know the big mystery about K7 and Pokerface?
This game was going at full speed...feels a teensy bit stalled.
Lets go lets go lets go!!!

I think IM may be telling fibs...but for now, still comfortable with my vote on chenhsi the lurker extraordinairre.

Would you drop it already. Your pretty much just fishing for more at this point. And I'm more out of the loop then you think. I'm confused as it is in case you haven't realized. Also considering what you said in "your" 70th, 72nd,and 76th, posts pretaining to what I said; I can assume you know pretty much what I know at the moment, and since I can't prove you or SpyreX to be lying scum in that respect, we are going to leave things at that. Unless K7 wants to say more, no more will be said as far as I'm concerned. Now stop fishing, from my viewpoint I believe saying more will only help the scum. Unless K7 disagrees based on his viewpoint and says more on his own, you should shut up since you be fishing and helping the scum.

"wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more"
(That is not suppose to be a funny, this is to further my point)

Your last post kinda feels pot calling kettle black having wanted things to stop.
http://ganjataz.com/general-bollocks/im ... -black.jpg
Now thats suppose to be funny.

I think some of us should listen to Azimuth more. I'm not sure what questions he is refering to towards SpyreX in the last paragraph of his last post. I'm going to have to look back on that. While I think about this:

...how are we going to turn that information into making a lynch choice? How do I really know whether a bridgekeeper, or a bishop, or a machine that goes "bing" is pro-town or anti-town, at least for the purposes of this game? How do I reconcile the fact that one French Taunter was mafia, but another French Taunter is claiming to be town? It seems that every single player could tell the truth about their roles and actions and I still might not know whom to vote for.

...

The only possible thing that I can think of is that Iron Man's ability (giving someone else's night choice a random target, if I have that correctly) seems quite chaotic, and not one that could be used effectively in any pro-town capacity. But does that mean he's mafia?

@Ironman,

why did you choose to target K7? Do you always have to use your action or can you choose to target no one if you wanted to? answer K7's question in post #861

Also

@SpyreX,

why did you choose to target Strappado?

@Strappado,

why did you choose to target SpyreX?

I don't see questions like these as fishing since they involve how and why and not so much what. If someone disagrees then say so.

[PokerFace]

I can't force feed everything to you. There be tons of crazy ways to bread crumb things, you would just have to use your imagination and hope we'd be able to figure it out after your death. That's what hiders and weak docs do.

I'm curious to know why you mention roles like the above rather then cop or doc or normal roles that typically bread crumb.

Simple answer. Docs and cops can breadcrumb after and typically do it after since there skills alone won't kill them.

If a hider hides with scum or a weak doc protects scum they are dead usually and therefore can't really breadcrumb after. If spyre drew a kill to him, he would be dead.

A player can choose how to breadcrumb assuming they want to. Telling some one the exact code to use out loud would be bad. I suppose he can choose not to breadcrumb at all if he wants to aswell so with that I'll drop that issue.

[PokerFace]

EBWOP:
replace "therefore can't really breadcrumb after"
with "therefore can't always breadcrumb after"

[PokerFace]

hmm... well yay you're right I did come off kinda extreme there I'm sorry. Also I kinda thought you could guess by now what I knew about you based on those post numbers (70, 72, 76 when you just view your posts). I guess you didn't get the hint. Did you look back at them and what K7 said in his first post today? Think about how that could apply to the possibility of SpyreX drawing or not drawing you. Thats why I kept things secret.

I apoligize if I insulted or offended you. The way I joke and act can come off rather abrasive so I'm sorry if I upset you. It was not my intention to make you mad. This is a game and we should have fun. I'm sorry if I went a bit overboard there.

[PokerFace]

Yay that was directed at strappado. I got simulposted with mirth. If you still can't get the hint after that then you'll just have to wait for K7 to say things. He knows more than me about it all and he'll most likly explain it assuming ironman can't explain why K7 reached his targets.

[PokerFace]

@Gurgi,

You've made 55+ posts and only 3 times went beyond the 10 word restriction stuff you are allowed for each 13. You got more you want to say by any chance? You have managed to say alot with what you've done yet I'm still suprised you ain't making use of the 13th post thing. i'd be iratated by the restriction and uses the big posts the moment I could. Can you save up on that 13 post thing you have or something?

As it stands we are once again waiting on Iron man. Big surprise. Internet pretty much just laid out where I was getting at with those questions towards Ironman.

Also I thought it out and I think the only way we can move forward is if I play the part I know and K7 can add the part he knows later should he feel the need to. Strappado, you have my permission to hate me after I sent you through dismay and other junk over all this. Me spilling what not now, kinda seems like an injustice after how I treated things towards you.

_________________

Like I said before I was hit by alot of crazy things last night. I don't know who or what caused 'all' these things straight forwardly but...

Poker what action did strappaddo do last night?

When this was posted I was able to learn the who of 'one' of those things that hit me. You should have seen my reaction in real life to that post.

That was you!

Think about it. Only way K7 would know details of something crazy that hit me would be if he had a hand in it (kinda like the me to elvis thing). I don't know 'exactly' what K7 does, what character he is, or his alignment (I have a good guess at all of these), but this post gave me enough to assume he was involved in the effect one action had on me. The effect of said action told me who Strappado visited last night. I crumbed here earlier that I did indeed see Strappado go to SpyreX.

I wanted ironman's target because I am wondering if he was involved in all this in anyway.

Since

Strap targeted SpyreX, and

if

Spyre also drew Strap to him then I doubt either of you would recieve confirmation since that is a third possibility of what could have happened.

I don't know if that proves SpyreX as the one telling the truth of drawing strappado or if it just proves Strappado went to SpyreX, but I do know that Strappado ended up going to SpyreX.


After the confusion over bridgekeeper and what looked like a role copish breadcrumbs to me from Strappado at the start of the day...

I'm confused by the Spyrex counterclaim because with the wealth of characters in Monty Python, I doubted there would be two of the same role - but I think it's possible.

I think it would be a dangerous gambit for him to counterclaim as scum,

I also think he seems pretty town-ish so far

, although my mind could change given more time.

I thought Strappado was trying to pull off a fake of the bridgekeeper or something along those lines combined with mysteriously knowing about Mr. Vibrating. But considering the reasons she gives here..

Sorry for the triple post. I saw red and went into kill mode, but didn't answer your question. Although I'm really ticked and dont want to answer any more of your questions because you turn into a whiney baby if people ask questions of you..
k...calming down.

I visited Spyrex because he was the "other french taunter". I kind of confused my role for that of a cop because I was thinking I could find out if he was guilty...but my role is only really useful if I happen to target whoever dies I think. Probably should have tried to figure out who was most innocent looking or more likely to be scum fodder. ...although I'm happy with the results because I can verify that Spyrex was visited by the bridgekeeper which would have been something that would take up a lot of my attention today (it being a pretty big claim)

It all fits with what I thought she was crumbing so I now don't suspect Strappado. I'm not sure why a character like "The Bishop" is a watcher for characters but I still find it wierd that SpyreX learned the bridgekeeper name. SpyreX's reasons for targeting Strappado make sence in line with what me and him were sayingand thinking for scum pairs at the end of Day1. And that kinda makes sence with who I found out about, when you think about it.


Thats all I know and the motivations I had for what I've been doing. Strap said her night action told her of the bridge keeper and i saw no way that was possible just like SpyreX did since we both had reason to believe Strappado targeted him. So yay as long as K7 chose to target me like he posted about before ironman revealed, I clearly got the message. Otherwise it would be more than just SpyreX that missed something. Go look back around post #659. I knew what info K7 was refering to instantly just like Elvis knew what info I was refering to at the start of the day. Had I revealed the tracking info then havoc would have confused things some. Also note that I didn't ask "WTF you talking about K7", now did I? And Elvis didn't ask "WTF you talking about Poker". People knew what the others were refering too.

So now that we have all that sorted Ironman needs to post an answer to this.

@Ironman,

why did you choose to target K7?
...
answer K7's question in post #861

How many times has he gotten prodded total? I'm starting to really like the idea of lynching him.

[PokerFace]

Watch it fellas, that puts him at L-1. 7 votes, 8 to lynch

There are some reasonable explaination for IM's action not working.

Nothing really new here. IM claims to have targetted K7, K7 claims to have targetted PF and claims it went through. So either IM is lying,

IM was bl

ocked, or K7 is lying.

that and the vague possibility that after target's were randomized, they still randomly selected the intended choices. Though I suppose that would be something completly the same and not different.


The truly scummy things about IM are said here and here.

I also think that i we have to lynch someone today, IM isthe best candidate, because of his suspicius role.

Why do you feel his role is suspicious now?

Beause his claimed ability is of very little use to the town (randomize the targt of town power role screws up plans, randomizing mafia targets could lead to hitting someone unprotected), and a good townplayer should know this, so why would they choose to use their ability if they were town? But this abilitycan sew chaos, maing it useful to the scum. So Iron Man, why did you target killa 7?

Iron Man, answer the questions you've yet to answer please? (including about your early wagon jumping which you still didnt get to even though I asked lots and lots of times)

His actions and motives behind that should be used to determine if he is scum. I am fine with giving him one more chance to say something.

[PokerFace]

Well then I clearly can't count and forgot people had to unvote.

Ebwop:Better quoting so I don't mislead

IM was blocked

I do trust K7 since I know what hit me was that so either IM lied or was blocked and I want his motives for jumping on the lynches day one and his motives on how to use his actions. I used those things to judge SpyreX and strappado so I think that should be used to judge ironman.

[PokerFace]

A couple of things I'll comment on while waiting for ironman.

I still don't know why Farside didn't get my analogies/brining up of hider and weak doc but I'm guessing thats because she has never been those because those roles typically die if they protect scum or hide behind them so I guess that truly closes that issue. Docs and cops also usually don't crumb there targets ahead of time so that no one can intervene with their more powerful skills getting there.

Pretaining to Elvis I don't really find her as scummy. I have only played one game with her and she was scum there while I was town. I thought she was town til the last day of the game in "Dynamite Stick" Mafia.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8119
Elvis scum not easily caught by my radar, BUT in "Dynamite stick" she would try to lurk off and avoid suspicion as aposed to actually defending herself.

I still think she is town in this game because of her general play and helpfulness. I don't read the period thread in GD anymore so I didn't know about a bunch of that stuff in there before I started playing this game. I had no idea info about me was there, but heack info about bruce was in worse roles ideas before this game. (I don't know if elvis has ever posted or read that thread off hand but I doubt it since I do read and post there often.)

The possibility Strappado, SpyreX, and K7 are all in cahoots with some bizarre let's trick poker with all our actions planning; is something i have thought and then imediatly dissmissed simply because that idea is too bizarre and complicated when there are simplier solutions to who is more likly scum and because their actions match some opinions that were all setup day one. Spending all that effort just to trick me would be stupid, bizarre in acordance with everything else, and highly unlikly since I don't have fame that would require such a plan to trick me. First time I played with strap and SpyreX. I think this is second or third time I have played with K7.

<<I remain waiting for ironman while I still wish this cigarette search of mine was less confusing. I am not willing to wait forever either. So voting him like internet and azimuth have mentioned, has crossed my mind.

Please Prod Ironman, shaft.ed

prod sent

[PokerFace]

OH wait, no, I'm sorry.
Correction: He's actually /in'd for 2 more games since his last post in our game... my bad. Boy he's just a busy little beaver.

Also doing some Meta - he was scum in another game very recently and was a Mr. Lurkity Lurk there too...claimed he was the cop pretty early on in the game and went quiet.

Is it finished? If its on going then you shouldn't talk about it, but if it is finished I'd like to see a link out of curiosity.

[PokerFace]

Thats all I needed to know.

I've got a nice, shiny hammer waiting as well.

IM definitely deserves to respond though.

Looks like Farside has jumped the hammer, so I'll be sure to check in for his non-response at 3:59.

You hammer is not as cool as mine.



I thought about posting that pic when I exposed the PR break needing more penalties thing at the very end of Day 1 with Darla. But I didn't post it then because the link was down temporarily for some reason. I enjoy adding comedy too much to mafia. I got that Pic from DGB's claims to fame wiki.

[PokerFace]

my role name is patsy

i use a coconut to transport people over large distances.
i choose one player each night to track another.

i chose pokerface to track strappaddo

obviously my night choice worked, IM is lying, PF confirmed it worked.

vote iron man

Had he read he would also known that K7 targeted me and strappado. He did not target SpyreX

[PokerFace]

Day 3 Starts now with 13 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline is exactly 5 weeks from this post.

Also welcome back imaginality. He will be temporarily replacing JordanA24,

you might have to call him by his real name this time

.

Are you kidding? That will be too confusing...

[PokerFace]

Day 3 Starts now with 13 alive it takes 7 votes to lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline is exactly 5 weeks from this post.

Also welcome back imaginality. He will be temporarily replacing JordanA24,

you might have to call him by his real name this time

.

Are you kidding? That is going to cause alittle confusion...

Fixed*. I think we should just call you bruce to keep it simple.

I'm a one-upper that kills jokes

abridg.ed

_________________

Oh no... Mirth died...

Lucky its only 1 death...

Oh no...an insincere post from the local lurker.
Yeah, you seem all choked up about her death, and wow, yeah, we're so lucky it was only one this time, gee golly willickers, I wonder who could be scum, we'd better be careful!

vote: chenhsi

Indeed Chensi made 2 scumtells in one post. I can't believe he would really be sympathetic over either of those issues.

Say did darla ever speak of him or vice versa?

_________________

@Lord Gurgi,

4

yes or no

questions about your restriction
1) You get one non restricted post every 13. Correct?
2) Does the 13 count reset each day?
3) Do you sell cigarettes with that bird?
4) Can you save these unrestricted posts up?
Like if you didn't use one in the last 13 it will carry over and you get 2 during the next 13.

You can answer me with the following format since all answers are yes or no.

Albatross!

1) answer, 2) answer, 3) answer, 4) answer. PF's cool

Albatross!

That format should fit your restrictionness.

_________________

Also

@The internet,

"You great Poof, your sister's buttocks gets more visitors than the Eifel Tower!" Now of course that is just my insulting/joking way of saying that I chose to speak to you last night about my search to quench my addictions. I mean you know offense with those sayings, do not sick the constable on me. The reponse I got from you was differently organized than the one i got from Elvis so I hope you still got it. Also I didn't ask you the same exactly worded question as I asked Elvis. Can you

paraphase

the message you got? I am still looking for some pattern to be of more use then just hunting for cigs and matches. Where is that lousy tobacconist!

[PokerFace]

Also internet what response did you send to whatever it is you saw me ask. What I got was something simular to the phrase "Your sister's buttocks gets more visitors then the Eifel Tower", which is why I made that joke/comment. Be sure to

paraphase

both what you got from me and what you said back so no one gets mod killed. I am guessing you ain't got cigarettes for me, correct?

[PokerFace]

My time in this game this week will be limited since I need to catch up in other games before they hit deadlines.

Despite my name being

Michael

imaginality/Jordan

...SpyreX if Mirth is untargetable, hard to see how she could have been NKed?

Another possibility might be that the 'self-target' in Self-Target Role Blocker refers to her target i.e. she roleblocks them by reflecting their action back on themselves.

I have not seen mirth's exact role outside this game in my mafia experience. From how it sounds I do think this would be a good guess though I doubt any further speculation on this would be helpful in giving us a definate answer.

_________________

Alright, here I am. To Pokerface, yes I did receive a message I presume was by you. It mentioned 5 pustules on the nose for the skunk you own (paraphrasing, of course). I'm sorry, but I didn't have any cigarettes. I was also visited by the bridged keeper, who asked me if I was mafia, if I was in a cult, and if either, who my partners were. He mentioned the punishment, as usual. I answered truthfully, namely no to all of them. However, I think that these questions make it more certain that he is protown, as he would not need these if he was scum, and this would make a poor WIFOM, as if he was mafia he could just never claim. This supports my theory that the questions are chosen by the bridgekeeper himself.

@Internet,

Answer these

if you can

. I don't want any modkillings
1) Did I ask you

for

or did I say something like look at or about my 5 postulates?
2) Also the response you sent was something simular to "No I have no cigarettes or matches" Correct?

As far as anyone else saying they saw the bridge keeper during a future night, I don't know if that should be done since if the bridgekeeper is town it would tell the scum who the bridge keeper is not (bridgekeeper can't visit himself) and this info could lead the scum to finding who he is by process of elimination.

_________________

Let's play through some scenarios:

If K7 is town:

Scenario 1: Ironman's action went through.
- Ironman's randomizer randomized to the same results K7 put in initially
Problems: The chances of that are low. How would a randomizer work with K7's role that has two "values" to it? (Would it have changed PF, Strap, both?.
- K7, actually, was RB'd.
Problems: PF saw Strap.
Secnario 2: Ironman's action did not go through.
- Ironman lied about it going through.
Problems: Why lie?
- Ironman didn't know it was blocked.
Problems: Few, in comparison. I have no idea if there is RB flavor.

if K7 is scum:

Scenario 1: He's not lying about his power.
- K7 did exactly what he said he did.
Problems: This means IM was RB'd and either K7 is ballsy or there is another scum roleblocker (if DBE was telling the truth) and K7 knew it.
Scenario 2: He is lying about his power.
Problems: The only way this would work is if PF was also scum.

I tend to believe that K7 is town and Ironman got blocked. I don't see why ironman would lie and with the over abundance of roles this game seems to have, seeing someone (Town or scum) block him wouldn't surprise me.

I lean towards thinking K7 is town for the following reasons:

1) Everything happens for a reason. If K7 is town, then he wanted me to track strappado. He sent me to check Strappado who I suspected near the end of day 1. This would make logical sence.
2) Everything happens for a reason. If K7 is scum, then he STILL wanted me to track strappado.

If Strappado is town,

then a scum K7 wanted me to track strappado so that I would either say her actions out loud or have cause to mislynch her. If anything I definatly don't have cause to lynch her. As far as me saying it out loud I only did it cause I thought I had something. I guess the real question here would be did scum have reason to fear a town strappado and any skill she had and there for want me to say her skill out loud? And if so why would they want me to do it? Wouldn't it be better for K7 to have one of his scum buddies track a town Strappado? And also without me knowing her skill I still may have had reason to lynch he without seeing her action so there would not be great need to tell me it since it would indeed more likly deter my suspicions than increase them.

If Strappado is scum,

then the purpose of sendiong me after her was to fool me and to get me to loose the suspicions I had of her. This would mean scum saw me as a threat. I don't think I am that great of threat, I'll leave that up to you guys, but this plan just seems a little too elaborate to use on me when they could have done something simplier. Also lets say Scum planned for K7 and Strappado to dupe me by having Strappado target SpyreX. Had a vig or some other variable hit SpyreX, that would fuck them and make me lynch them unless SpyreX came up dead scum. And if SpyreX came up dead scum then he would be scum too and things would just get more elaborate and out there from here.

So in general I lean towards K7 being town. Now I will admit that this logic is somewhat staked in my own viewpoint and knowledge of my own alignment. Because of that I encourage you guys make your own descision about those that claimed yesterday. Feel free to ask me any questions you want to.

I think K7 and strappado skills are what they say they are. And I don't know if Strappado is town or not. I lean towards town but not for the reasons I think K7 is town, but for what may be involved with her targeting SpyreX and how things went down. I am uncertain on SpyreX because of the whole 2 taunter thing at the moment.

During the weekend or when I can find time, I think I will try to revisit that issue. I'll also reexamine the Darla wagon and see who got on and how. Basically see who interacted with who then. I also have a general comment. Considering the flavor of night kills, the person making the kill would be the spainish inquisition. I don't know if we should speculate on this but I wonder would the inquistion be cult, mafia(Egoscentric characters), or vig. Later all

[PokerFace]

That all fine by me farside. I may take time to look at those people asuming I can get said time.

Also there is one thing I neglected to post earlier. I was NOT sent to track another player last night. Night1 K7 had his coconuts send me after Strappado. During night 2 I recieved no knowledge of anyone going to anyone so I'm assuming someone else was sent to track somebody.

I am not sure if we should have Strappado and K7 reveal their targets and results. I suppose we can debate on this matter if we want; I myself lean towards no merely because I do not know whether said info would be helpful or not. I'd rather they all decide themselves if such info should be said and discussed further for the moment. If someone disagrees then they can say why. For the moment I am content with whatever secrecy Strap, K7, and farside may wish to have.

[PokerFace]

Maybe you should see a Doctor.

That is one of my favorite sketches

[PokerFace]

Hi all. I haven't read over Farside suspicions or posts 992-Present that 'much'. I have a couple of games hitting deadlines over the next 3 days and somewhat limited access, and therefore not enough time to enjoy the entertainment of this game. When I get the time i will return to being my usual helpful self and try to address some of what Gurgi, Farside, Azimuth and the others have said. I apoligize for not being able to focus myself here as much as i had previously been focusing myself here since this game is alot of fun.

[PokerFace]

Hi all. Yes I did target Elvis night 1 and internet night two thanks to them I am getting some idea on how to find the person I am looking for and how to ask and get what i want. You can check some of my early posts from this game day to see math why I don't think K7 is scum. If you disagree with it you can correct me.

My deadlined games are now in night so I will be reading over the pages and posts I have missed here sunday and monday. (I got to go to a co-workers wedding later on today) I haven't checked much from posts 994 to now.

I have skimmed only bits. I don't know what the vote count is. Don't hammer anyone without them claiming. I am still looking for someone with cigs and matches and seeing someone die without claiming would be bad for me. And yes i can easily test those that would try to fake claim who i am looking for, I got flavor aspects i ain't explaned yet if you remember, so no one will be able to pull off a fake of who i am looking for. See you guys tomorrow or monday.

[PokerFace]

Alright I am back in the saddle. If you have to go to the bathroom, do it now because this post be long and quotes alot of people.

Ok then 2 options with Ironman's skill not working. 1 he was roleblocked by scum or 2...

Now, I'm awake but it seems a few of you are still sawing it off. Now, I'll give you slackers 24 hours to have completed your night actions before I wake everyone up. Get along then, ten nine, eight and all that.

Someone who lurks like ironman i can see getting a skill in too late and the colonel/shaft.ed not counting it. This same warning was not post during night 2 when ironman was dead and thus not possibly late on a second action. Either way I know ironman's skill did not take effect. K7 said this...

Poker what action did strappaddo do last night?

early into day2 before ironman said what his skill even was and who ironman targeted. If ironman used his skill I doubt K7 would know who the targets were changed to and I doubt it would be me to strappado. I suspected strappado at the end of day 1. So this logic from #985 is relevant on why I don't suspect K7. I have judged him as inocent based on how i see him using his skill.

I lean towards thinking K7 is town for the following reasons:

1) Everything happens for a reason. If K7 is town, then he wanted me to track strappado. He sent me to check Strappado who I suspected near the end of day 1. This would make logical sence.
2) Everything happens for a reason. If K7 is scum, then he STILL wanted me to track strappado.

If Strappado is town,

then a scum K7 wanted me to track strappado so that I would either say her actions out loud or have cause to mislynch her. If anything I definatly don't have cause to lynch her. As far as me saying it out loud I only did it cause I thought I had something. I guess the real question here would be did scum have reason to fear a town strappado and any skill she had and there for want me to say her skill out loud? And if so why would they want me to do it? Wouldn't it be better for K7 to have one of his scum buddies track a town Strappado? And also without me knowing her skill I still may have had reason to lynch he without seeing her action so there would not be great need to tell me it since it would indeed more likly deter my suspicions than increase them.

If Strappado is scum,

then the purpose of sendiong me after her was to fool me and to get me to loose the suspicions I had of her. This would mean scum saw me as a threat. I don't think I am that great of threat, I'll leave that up to you guys, but this plan just seems a little too elaborate to use on me when they could have done something simplier. Also lets say Scum planned for K7 and Strappado to dupe me by having Strappado target SpyreX. Had a vig or some other variable hit SpyreX, that would fuck them and make me lynch them unless SpyreX came up dead scum. And if SpyreX came up dead scum then he would be scum too and things would just get more elaborate and out there from here.

So in general I lean towards K7 being town.

His lurking is a null tell since he does it always.

@Killa seven,

is english your primary language? I can see someone who secondary or third language being english having a lurker playstyle if he doesn't know english as his best language. That or its possible he is just in a bunch of games and thus is not able to focus himself in just one. Also K7 why send Mirth after Lord Gurgi, any reason for using your skill like that?

Also I will clarify something so no one goes too far in their thoughts.

K7 can be scum without me being scum.

I believe his night action to be exactly what he says it is. I have proof of that, but I don't have proof of his alignment. I believe him to still be town at this time because of my previous logic though. I will see him as town until either his answers to my new questions bring conflict or something else turns up proving him scum. Until something like that happens I wholly believe him to be town.

_________________

@Azimuth,

you said these earlier

I can't help but think that people who reveal their roles too eagerly should be attacked, first with bombs and rockets to destroy their homes, and then when they run helpless into the street, mow them down with machine guns. And then, of course, release the vultures.

I know these views aren't popular, but I have never thought of popularity.

I have to believe that at least some of those who have revealed themselves did so because they thought they would be able to catch mafia, and maybe some of them think they have done so, but I don't quite see it for now -- possibly because I still don't have all the information that they do. I don't want to fish for more information, though; at least a few folks around here should keep their ways mysterious.

Why the change in heart on those with restrictions? I got no problem with anything else from you I'm just wondering what particular game elements led to a change in yelling at those who wanted to say things too accepting it.

_________________

@LordGurgi,

1) How many penalties have you gotten in this game so far?
2) Albatross! ten words albatross! Albatross is part of the restriction, yes?
3) Did you not say albatross some in "You are what you eat?"
4) Your #29 post establishes that your #12 post is incorrect of it being on the 13th which would make sence with your episode. Correct?

Use simular format from before to answer me please.

#0-12, #13-25, #26-38, #39-51, #52-64, #65-77, #78-90
#12, #14 with fail?, #26... hmm... did you really get a penalty or did that not happen according to my 4th point?

_________________

@Strappado,

Yeah, it's gotten awfully quiet. I'm waiting for some more excitement. Maybe someone should attack me, that might move things along, I love a good quarrel.

I miss Mirth

Didn't you call Chenshi out for being sad about night kill. Hypocracy! Do you think that and his play here make him scum or a newb? Which is it?

FoS TSPN

for spreading false and slandering lies. I have

never

had fun eating a baby

So you do eat babies but don't have fun?

_________________

chenhsi: "You guys pick on me when I don't say anything, now you pick on me when I do say something, what do you want from me??!?!!!"

I make alot of these smilies and use them in mafia discussion alot.
http://www.smiliegenerator.com/smiliegenerator_eng.html
I post the shaft.ed wins smilie throughout MD. I'm not sucking up I swear.

_________________

I do maintain that randomizing a target will probably hurt the town, as it could lead to wrong info for information roles, wrong killing for vigs, screwing up a carefully planned doc protection of probable town power role, and in the event of a randomized scum kill most likely leading to a loss of a town member, which would hurt us even more so since this game appears vanillaless, and it is comparitively unlikely that a good result could come. Overall, if town power roles wanted random targets, they'd pick then themsleves, and odds are it will do harm instead of good if it hits scum. And you must remember that IM completely failed to adress this point in his defence, leading me to believe he had falseclaimed as scum.

@Ironman,

why did you choose to target K7? Do you always have to use your action or can you choose to target no one if you wanted to? answer K7's question in post #861

I asked this to test ironman because the most pro-town thing to do with a randomize action skill (Assuming they don't have to always use it) is to not use it until player number reduces to a situation like this:

3 or other low odd number of players going into night. Lylo likly 1 is scum and the guy that just hamered scumily calling for his side to win during the night. Should he get a kill, him and rest of scum win game. Randomize him and hope he kills himself or a scumbuddy. And if kill randomly hits town the game is over anyway so its a nothing to loose situation that would call for use of his skill.

A scum with randomizing a protown skill could send a cop at his scum buddy. So the skill is not natuarally scum or town. How one uses a skill should always be judged in determining their alignment. I have judged K7 as town for now based on the use of his skill, send me after someone I suspected. I didn't get a chance to judge ironman based on his role use and that is why I held off on voting ironman. I wanted the answer to my questions because the answer could lead me to think ironman was scum based on how the skill's use would apply to what internet has said throwing investigaters off.

_________________

@farside,

I will say the only thing I think that will help some people (maybe) understand what I will be doing.
What ever doesn't kill me makes me stronger.
With that said I am going to look at each person I named and go through why and what I found as scummy.

Any chance you are looking for me, or i'm looking for you? Cigarettes don't kill me, but they do make me stronger. Now I don't turn into an SK, I am 100% certain I don't do that. In fact if my new theory (thx Elvis & Internet) is correct, giving cigarettes to me 'can' actually help the town, the scum, the cult, everybody 'can' be helped if my theory is correct. But since I believe I can choose who would recieve the benefit from my skill, the town will recieve the benefit. They all 'can' benefit, BUT since I am the one using the skill, only those I choose to benefit, will. At least this is what I think for now. I'll explain once I test my skill one more time. I could be off big time and i could be right on the money. Shaft.ed had fun with my role and if I'm right this game just got sillyer. !My Brain hurts too!

Also I am uncertain on Azimuth and I disagree with Farside's read of muerto.

My read on Muerrto:

Muerrto - No post by Borge. Does a read through believes Sprye comments on hilarity. Prodded after 3 days has no opinion. Post 5 saying since DBE came up as taunter seems that Spyrex suspicious. (I can understand this) Post 6 Again i agree about the PR outing themselves with all this talk. By post 8 I'm curious why he keeps getting upset with all the soft claims (yes I know it stupid to soft claim or claim unless necessary, but some claims have some what helped me in narrowing down certain leads). By post 12 it is clear to me that Muerrto doesn't seem to vote alot. He also seems focused on those not posting more then those that seem scummy. Post 14 Thinks the BK (bridge keeper) as too powerful of a role question is if the BK is town isn't that a good thing then? Last post I just curious who you think is scum at this point and why if you agree with me and my post.

My read on Muerrto is inconclusive. It like he hasn't said enough to really get a read on and what he has said has been good (in the beginning) to nothing at all. I think the talk of lurkers is a bit hypocritical coming from him.

...

As for not voting alot though, I voted for both DBE and Iron Man. How many other lynches have there been?

And soft claims ARE stupid which is why I haven't made one and I was sorry indeed to see you join the ranks of those that had.

Shrug I'll try and do a re-read and post something substantial later.

As for the BK, he does sound extrmely over-powered, town or scum. And no, that's not good for the town. This is a game and as such should be balanced. If you just wanted your side to win you could have a game of 4 cops, 4 docs, 4 vigs, and 1 scum =p

Good read on me though except the lurking/not voting part. I'm usually more agressive as well but since this is a silly type game I toned it down.

Still don't like Spyrex or K7(due to DBE and IM, respectively) and still wondering who the cult is since we're at day 3 and they could technically have 3 members by now. Does that not scare anyone else?

I don't think he has done anything to ping my radar yet. Finding the cult would be useful especially early into a game. Anyone on ways to out the cult earlier would be wise to give ideas. I'm waiting for someone to make a dramatic flipflop on something since cult would mean an alignment change.

People I suspect:

A. Gurgi

- Something looks fishy restrictionwise

B. SpyreX

- 2 taunters what?

Anyone got any idea as to why shaft.ed would do that or why anymod would?

I wonder if you aren't a taunter but a scum that counterclaimed Darla for safety.

@SpyreX,

The night kill flavor suggest the Spainish inquisition took out Bruce and Mirth. Do you believe the Spainish Inquisition would be part of the "Egoscentrical Character group", or do you think they are part of a different scum group (Cult, SK, whatever)?

C. Chenshi

- Why? We all know why. I want him to claim before he is lynched. He is either stupid SK or total newb. If he was mafia or cult, I think his scum buddies would be coaching him to do better at night. Darla went with the flow of everybody else towards chenshi. Her statement here:

Chenshi,

You've really got to post some content. I'm glad you're posting, but you're still just acting like "I'm confused" and not really doing much. It's why I've got my vote on you and its why its staying there for now.

I endorse this product or service.

is what first got me on her. I am leaning away from chenshi being with Darla.

D. Sweatpants ninja

- Why?

Unvote, vote DBE.

Would still like to pursue LG tomorrow. . . but yeah. That's pretty good.

Iron, Jordan, Killa, TSN, Az, LG, Internet, christ how many lurkers do we have in this game?!

What? I posted

today.

Luigi Gangsta, if you were just having fun (being silly, if you will), then I'll accept that.

Anyway, I suppose its

feasible

that there are two Taunters, or feasible that both spyrex and darla are scum, but I think occam's razor suggests that DBE just got caught lying.

Explain why you went back and forth on Luigi and the two taunter principle? Those are your #7 and #8 posts so your change of heart looks like an effort to go with the rest of the flow considering what everybody had been saying since there was no definite proof luigi was faking. Only a possibility. If you are going with the flow and not giving your own opinions then you are scum. Also I know your vote didn't count here because you forgot to unvote, but this still lookslike a big flipflop. I could see you as scum with darla. while I could only see chenshi as an SK for now.

I didn't see ironman with Darla for simular reasons I don't see chenshi with darla. Darla voted ironman and that could be strong distancing but still looks off to me. Since it has looked like multiple scum groups for awhile now I was willing to ask ironman's those question to determine if he should be lynched for being scum in probably a different group.

I will hold off on voting one of those 4 to see who gives me worst answers to given questions. And cause I want to see if chenshi is ever going to try to defend his lurking playstyle.

Scumiest order:

1) chenshi & Ninja
*Huge Gap*
2) Lord Gurgi & SpyreX

[PokerFace]

I've seen cults able to either kill or recruit (not both) each night. (Except in "Doctor Who Mafia 2" where the cult started out with 2 members. One that could kill and one that could recruit. Talk about an overpowered bad balancing act. That game was insane!!)

@SpyreX,

So you say the spainish inquistion would be part of a mafia known as the Egoscentirc characters OR that they are and SK. corect?

@Gurgi,

Oh yes, you did mention you couldn't do double postings in your #12 post.

@LordGurgi,

1) How many penalties have you gotten in this game so far?
2) Albatross! ten words albatross! Albatross is part of the restriction, yes?
3

A

) Did you not say albatross some in "You are what you eat?"

4) Your #29 post establishes that your #12 post is incorrect of it being on the 13th which would make sence with your episode. Correct?

Use simular format from before to answer me please.

#0-12, #13-25, #26-38, #39-51, #52-64, #65-77, #78-90
#12, #14 with fail?, #26... hmm... did you really get a penalty or did that not happen according to my 4th point?

I believe you have answered question 4. Can you answer the others or did I misinterpret?

3

B

) From "You are what you eat"
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1079688
Why did you say albatross then? That game was over before this started. shaft.ed had to finish that game to earn modding privaleges for this one.

[PokerFace]

In case anyone is wondering I am trying to gauge if he had a reason to do that. I don't think he could have been rehearsing for his role here since that game ended before this one even began.

And in case anyone is wondering Gurgi did make posts 225 and 226. So i guess that would be his one violation to have claimed so far.

[PokerFace]

@LordGurgi,

1) How many penalties have you gotten in this game so far?
2) Albatross! ten words albatross! Albatross is part of the restriction, yes?
3

A

) Did you not say albatross some in "You are what you eat?"

4) Your #29 post establishes that your #12 post is incorrect of it being on the 13th which would make sence with your episode. Correct?

Use simular format from before to answer me please.

#0-12, #13-25, #26-38, #39-51, #52-64, #65-77, #78-90
#12, #14 with fail?, #26... hmm... did you really get a penalty or did that not happen according to my 4th point?

I believe you have answered question 4. Can you answer the others or did I misinterpret?

3

B

) From "You are what you eat"
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1079688
Why did you say albatross then? That game was over before this started. shaft.ed had to finish that game to earn modding privaleges for this one.

@Gurgi

, Ok so its

1) Yes, just the one
2) Yes, Albatross 10 words albatross. The word Albatross MUST BE THERE
3) I did it for fun. Some wierd stroke of luck got me a role with that PR here.

Also the 13 count doesn't reset each day and you can't save anything up.

If I am 100% correct please say:

Albatross!

PF is 100% correct on my entire Post Restriction Status.

Albatross!

Otherwise correct me Gurgi.

[PokerFace]

@Strappado,

Well it still felt off to me. What do you think of how I see chenshi as an SK but not part of a scum group? I admit his lurking and participation levels are maddening. He was pressured by mirth for content so I found is comment as practical bragging under the guise of insincere sympathy.

@Ninja,

Well what I was exactly asking was how you began to consider there possibly being 2 taunters during the day when you voted Darla. It came off as going with the flow since Darla and I think a few others were begining to consider the idea. Basically I wanted to know why you would vote her and change your mind like that. Did you realize you weren't voting her? I'll look back later on but I'd like to know who all first accepted the possibility of there being two besides you. And pending on whether SpyreX is or is not scum with Darla I imagine I could find 980 reasons why that would be relevant. Yay I'm probably exagerating (I can only come up with 971 there , yay no one gets that joke or reference huh?), but still if SpyreX really isn't scum with Darla I want to know who all followed suit with Darla and considered there being 2 taunters. That idea was un-heard of and considered preposterious by me and a few others day 1. If someone beats me to looking back I want to know who all considered the idea. I would suspect those people being with darla since the idea of 2 taunters still seems a little irational to me.

As it stands I'm still waiting on SpyreX confirming this:

@SpyreX,

So you say the spainish inquistion would be part of a mafia known as the Egoscentirc characters OR that they are and SK. corect?

and I'm waiting for Azimuth, K7, and chenshi to react to my last post. Others can react to it if they please too.

Got another question for Gurgi before I call his hand. Answer it best you can I don't have a format to suggest here.

@Gurgi,

You lost your night action as your last penalty. Does that make sence and fit with a restriction that does not reset each day? Can you make sence of it?

[PokerFace]

If you follow that link and check Gurgi's other posts on that page you'll see that gurgi did it in three posts there.

@Gurgi,

I actually got 2 more questions for you. I'll ask them separatly in different posts so you ain't got to worry about double posting. Bruce said his pregame violation was ok because it was pregame and all so they were allowed. Are you allowed to mess up during pre-game or during twighlight or any other time like that?

I assume Bruce told the truth of being allowed to break things during pre-game earlier since he died and came up town and it is a townie's responsibility to tell the truth whenever possible.

If you are never allowed to mess up in pre-game or twighlight, Gurgi, then say:

Albatross!

There is no time I am allowed to mess up.

Albatross!

If there is a time you can messup then please specify.

@Imaginality,

Please do not acknowledge this post. Bruce is dead so there is no need for you to confirm anything here and you probably shouldn't that would kinda be rule breaking and I don't want to see any modkillings. So ignore this post please.

<<Still waiting on comments from K7, Azimuth, Chenshi, and whoever. I'll probably look back and get a list of who considered the idea of 2 taunters during day 1 shortly.

[PokerFace]

Actually make that 4 times, only three are the first three are on same page as the link to the first occurance. There is a fourth one on a later page.

[PokerFace]

Well you should probably try and find Gurgi out. Shaft.ed is V/la on weekends so if we went into twighlight it would be cool to have a full conversation and what not. . I don't think that would be rule breaking or something shaft.ed would kill us for.

Also its not that I think he's faking farside. I just want to pin him to a set story. Since I believe Darla came up as faking I basically want to make sure no one else tries it. This game is silly as it is and I would like to be able to understand at least something by the end of the day. After all Bruce turned up Town so we know he was not faking and that restrictions can exist. So I am willing to believe Gurgi has one for now.

And besides, anyone seen Gurgi act scummy yet? Yay that's what I thought.

@Imaginality,

again you know the drill. I don't want to see any mod killing which is another reason why I was nice enough to suggests formats for Gurgi and what not.

[PokerFace]

You forgot to unvote and so your vote never counted back then ninja. I'll accept your answer for now and move on. But I'm still going to make a list of who all said that just for my notes purposes because something tells me I should keep this info in mind. Should someone notice me leaving some off one of the lists or making a mistake please correct me.

Those that said 2 taunters is possible:

Strappado - began to consider it post #361 and after me, Gurgi and mirth discussed things she unvoted in #374. Wanted Chenshi lynch over a darla lynch #536
Darla - #387
Ninja - #438 he had previously made an uncounted vote on her. in #347. In 499 he says he is down with lynching darla while his vote is not on her.
Inernet - #505 said "we" had considered the idea and found it too silly when really only some others had discussed it and he just got off V/la and didn't discuss it with everybody else

Those that said Both Darla and SpyreX could both be scum:

Luigi - Pushed the idea strongly
Mirth - Pushed it weekly as a possibility
Jordan - Pushed it weekly as a possibility
Me & Bruce & (I think) Muerto - Said it was possible and something only to consider the next day should one come up french taunter.
Elvis comments on them both being scum as a very ballsy move considering the counter claiming. And thus unlikly.

@Gurgi,

I'd like you to see if you could get that info on any time you would be allowed to mess up, and not for the purpose of us having a twighlight conversation, but so that I got everything figured out and no one goes crying wolf in the future and effectivly wasting the towns time over getting something wrong about your situation. I feel these questions i have asked are ok and warranted considering what you did in "you are what you eat". So when you and shaft.ed get the chance respond with:

Albatross!

There is no time I am allowed to mess up.

Albatross!

Or clarify the time in which you are allowed to mess up. Just basically ask shaft.ed "if you can post normally in twighlight and pregame?", please.

Also if I remember correctly Luigi ocasionally rolled dice as he posted. Anyone know if that had any signifcance to Brian in "Life of Brian". I can't remember any and so I wonder if he ever had a reason for doing that. Or if he has done that in other games.

[PokerFace]

I just viewed all your posts in isolation, chenshi. Maybe you thought it but you definatly didn't say it.

Still waiting on K7, Azimuth, and Gurgi.

Albatross!

Wasn't told that I could. Bruce's seemed like retroactive ruling.

Albatross!

I would guess you can't speak in twighlight out of restriction since he didn't tell you explicitly, but you probably should still ask so things don't get messed up.

@chenshi,

who do you suspect. Alot has gone on, I'd love to know what you are thinking. Who do you believe is scum? And what do you think of those voting you?

[PokerFace]

Well simulposted for the win. Still waiting on K7 and Azimuth then. I'll ask my last question to gurgi later on. i am a bit pressed at work right now.

[PokerFace]

What bridgekeeper? I didn't get visited by anybody.

And we did not claim the same night action - that was part of my questioning about her claim. She said she was a roleblocker. I am a redirecter/limited lightning rod.

Is it possible that one of you is lying about your role and that both of you actually have the same ability?

if I view you in isolation and search for darla i only find your last post. This is the only post Chenshi comes close to discussing them both being the same thing, but he does not say they could both be scum.

@chenshi,

who do you suspect. Alot has gone on, I'd love to know what you are thinking. Who do you believe is scum? And what do you think of those voting you?

[PokerFace]

A role that watches someone that see someone else target them is a very interesting role. I don't know if scum could have been given the role. The fact that K7 question PF about strapp I would say not scum buddies for sure. Does K7 seem scummy on paper. Yes, but he is low on my list as cherhsi is because I see scum using people like that to vote on to help themselves.

I'm going to clarify something, since part of what farside said looked confusing, even to me.

K7 used his coconuts to send me tracking strappado. I do not believe he claims to have seen where i tracked her to. if he could see where his tracker tracked the other target to, he would know where Mirth tracked Gurgi to last night.

K7 wouldn't have needed to say this:

Poker what action did strappaddo do last night?

I didn't see what action Strapp (Character Watching), but I did see who she targeted (which is what tracking does) and the the person she targeted was SpyreX. (I still don't know if its cause SpyreX drew Strappado or not, but regardless the end result told me Strappado went to SpyreX)

K7 is esentially a "whispering tracker". (This is the name I have heard it called before. Yes, thats right, I have seen his role before in other games on IRC. I don't know if shaft.ed calls the role the same thing or if he saw it himself in another game, but esentially i grasp what it is K7 does because I have seen it before. After all, I said before I could guess his power, character, and alignment from the action that hit me. I got the power right and guessed the wrong character. I can guess but got no gaurantee on his alignment.) Also again I say I didn't know it was K7 that sent me until he said that previous quote, and that would fit my previous experience with "whispering trackers". The target doesn't straight up learn who sent them.

I'll post my three person list later on. Considering what has been said so far and what I'm still waiting on, there are still some things I am considering.

[PokerFace]

I'd have to say:

K7
Chensi, Azimuth, Internet, TSPN(lurkers)

Now those 4 aren't just lurkers, they have done some things that have raised eyebrows but K7's claim just doesn't add up with IM's confirmed ability and I DON'T see scum blocking IM when there were plenty of other already claimed targets.

I'd also like to throw back this question and get everyone to chime in on the cult. Most people haven't said anything and 2 people in particular have said that they're almost sure there's no cult...that makes me suspiscious.

A cult can exist and finding earlier than later is best. I don't quite have ideas to find it myself. if you got some ideas feel free to shout them out.

Also muerto on day 1 only a few people really aluded to what they were. It was day 2 that we had such a huge claiming spree. Roles that claimed day 1
Bruce - Claimed bruce but not his skill - He was nightkilled and never said he was cop
SpryeX - claimed limited lightning rod
Gurgi - Claimed albatross and said his night action was taken via PR penalty
Ironman - claimed anouncer no skill given.

No one but SpyreX really gave a skill. And no one else really full claimed then unless you want to count me being the hungarian tourist. Scum killed and blocked two skills. skills that weren't claimed. Gurgi's skill was already nulled out. the only skill they left unanswered was SpyreX unless i am forgetting to count someone that claimed day1.

Aside from being blocked, it is also possible Ironman did not get his action in on time, which i brought up, and it is also 'slightly' possible K7's targets randomly went to what they orignally were.

[PokerFace]

EBWOP: for clarifications sake

No one but SpyreX really gave a skill. And no one else really full claimed then unless you want to count me being the hungarian tourist.

So scum potentially could have

killed and blocked two skills. Skills that weren't claimed. Gurgi's skill was already nulled out.

Assuming scum can block and did, the

only skill they left unanswered was SpyreX unless i am forgetting to count someone that claimed day1.

...

Saying scum wouldn't waist their possible block power on ironman doesn't seem like a big factor to consider. its basically wifoming a skill we don't know whether or not scum have.

[PokerFace]

My take on the cult:

It's possible that there's no cult and shaft.ed threw the Cult Unrecruiter role in there to lead us astray, but I don't think it's likely. If I had to guess, I'd say that the Spanish Inquisition are the cult, and that they can kill on even nights and recruit on odd nights (or perhaps have the choice of which they do each night), which would explain why there were two kills night 1 and one night 2. Certainly flavour-wise, it makes a lot of sense for the Spanish Inquisition to be the cult.

If it's a scum group (Evil Egocentrics) and a serial killer, then they either double-targeted Mirth night 2, or there was a roleblock or doc save or something. Personally I think scum + cult is more likely, but I haven't played in other games shaft.ed's modded, so I'm drawing these conclusions just based on the flavour and events in this game so far.

The means of Brian's death was not explicitly explained. He was found dead surrounded by his suicide squad.

Where did it say he was shot SpyreX?

Bruce was poked with cushions and Mirth was put on a dish rack. These are both events characterized by the spainish inquisiton skits. If the inquistion is a cult then they have killed both nights. This is why I lean toward them being a mafia or an SK. It is smarter to recruit then it is to kill when you are cult.

I don't know if is mafia, SK, cult
cult, mafia
mafia, sk or
cult, SK

I tend to believe there is at least a mafia since Darla wasn't called goon. the goon of a scum group most naturally goes on kills while roleblockers, doctors, and godfather's most oftenly use their other skills, unless the good is already dead. Then another member will make the kill.

And gurgi is right about SpyreX and Darla. Though in my experience only what SpyreX claimed is truly call a "Role-attractor".

[PokerFace]

Disclaimer: Took me awhile to find the right links to show my examples and point throughly. I appoligize for not bringing up some of the validity in these points earlier.

From my point of view I have considered the possibility of the Tobacconist not being in play and therefore being a red hering. And considered that the way I ask the question will be to true determining factor in completing my search.

SpyreX has considered that the cult may be a redherring because of how he sees a cult unrecruiter working. Spyre let me tell you that there is a rational explanation as to how there can be both a recruiter and an unrecruiter and the game not have ruining potential. I myself have played (ON irc) and read games where cult members did not know who their leader was or know who was all in their cult. They are rare in setups but do exist.

This game here
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7450
Had 2 cult recruiters and vanilla townies only could be recruited into each cult. The recruit could be in one cult and then go to the other (The backup mod explains at the end) and the recruits supposed weren't told who was in or led each cult so things wouldn't be breakable I believe. Only the cult leader knew who was in his cult and when they were in it. The recruits could only be a member of each cult once. If they went from cult A to Cult B and then back to Cult A, they would die as a member of Cult B. If they were recruited by both cults in the same night, they would die as a vanilla townie.

Usually when I play with cults who don't know their leaders, every member of the faction will return back to its original alignment and role should the cult leader get lynched. This next link has a cult where if its leader was lynched, all players went back to normal. This game also had an SK and a mafia group in that same game with the cult.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7687
If a 12 player game can have Mafia, SK, and a cult, our 18 player game, probably can too.

A long time ago, on the first irc server I played on which ain't around any more, I also played in "Bastard Cult Games". In those games the members would know their leader and everything, BUT should the leader get killed, all members of the cult would commit mass suicide the next night in order to be with their leader in the "Chosen land".

So in general there are alot of bizarre cult mechanics that could be in effect to balance things out here. I would not be surprised to see a cult whose members did not know who their leader is in this game. I usually just scum hunt cults the same way I hunt mafia and SK's. if anyone knows some specific really useful means that works on just cults, feel free to shout them out.

[PokerFace]

Ok I'll put an end to this.

After the game

you two indeed should put a thread/poll in MD asking the question:

Which of these is scum?
A) Just Mafia
B) Mafia and SK's
C) Mafia and Werewolves
D) Mafia, Werewolves, SK
E) Any anti-town faction (Mafia, werewolves, SK, Cult)

Now that, that is settled...

@Muerto,

do you suspect SpyreX? If so do you suspect him more or less then the people you mentioned earlier? Basically where would you rank SpyreX with respect to the people you listed earlier, above or below them?

And, TSPN - are you talking about Strap? Or did I miss an actual investigative role clearing me?

I'm talking about the bridgekeeper-whose results I trust, for the most part.

As far as trusting what the bridgekeeper may think I guess that is a player's perogative pending if the bridgekeeper ever turns up and is town. We can discuss that topic further, when and if he does. I see no need to encourage this matter further right now.

For the moment I suspect 3 players which is highly subject to change considering what has been going on.
Chenshi - he has contributed to thuis game, hasn't he Borat?... NOT!
Gurgi - Certain aspects of his post restriction still bug me. I may go into this further later on. He has been fairly protown otherwise.
SpyreX - Only because his claim still doesn't make sence with how Darla's corpse turned up. He has been fairly protown otherwise.

Won't be voting any of them right now since I believe there are still some people needing to give responces and because I'd like to have a bigger suspect then a lousy lurker. Lurker lynches, feel like a crap shoot all too often. I may take some time to read over Azimuth later on. And see if my early notes can be effective in further ways aswell.

Those that said 2 taunters is possible:

Strappado - began to consider it post #361 and after me, Gurgi and mirth discussed things she unvoted in #374. Wanted Chenshi lynch over a darla lynch #536
Darla - #387
Ninja - #438 he had previously made an uncounted vote on her. in #347. In 499 he says he is down with lynching darla while his vote is not on her.
Inernet - #505 said "we" had considered the idea and found it too silly when really only some others had discussed it and he just got off V/la and didn't discuss it with everybody else

Those that said Both Darla and SpyreX could both be scum:

Luigi - Pushed the idea strongly
Mirth - Pushed it weekly as a possibility
Jordan - Pushed it weekly as a possibility
Me & Bruce & (I think) Muerto - Said it was possible and something only to consider the next day should one come up french taunter.
Elvis comments on them both being scum as a very ballsy move considering the counter claiming. And thus unlikly.

[PokerFace]

Oh and clear things up some.

@PF: As for the cult being a red herring, possibly. You still haven't found a tobacconist? Do you have to ask in thread or does it only work at night? Do you have to direct your question at the right person at night for it to work? Does your PM say anything?

I wasn't trying to infer that I consider the cult a red herring, I don't consider the cult that. For now I am going to assume their is a high probablity of their existance.

As far as the tobaconist goes, I have good reason to believe a tobaconist may be in play. I am capable of testing any player that would try to claim it. I don't have confirmation they are town or scum. I lean towards town. I brought up my search openly during the day in an attempt to test the probability he is in play. Since he has not come forward, I am left with the possibility that the way I ask my question is the greater determining factor then who I ask it too. I do ask my question and perform the search at night, and since it is rather difficult with things getting mal translated, I felt the need to bring it up during the day so that things could become easier from my point of view.

As far as what happens when I get the cigarettes I have more theories there too, but nothing definite. Shaft.ed made my role real confusing and silly.

[PokerFace]

hmm... so you think he has a good chance of being cult (because he doesn't think there is one), but otherwise don't suspect him considering he isn't scummy compared to those you earlier mentioned.
Is that what you are saying Muerto?

I can see why Muerto's comments have come off as somewhat contradictory. Since Muerto wants to lynch the cult, it would make sence he would want to vote for and scumhunt someone who has a good chance of being cult. I think this is the conection SpyeX is making. Muerto, do you see you previous suspects as having a good chance of being in a cult? Do you want to lynch cult or scum(Mafia, SK, etc) first or does it not matter to you who goes first?

Also Maybe its just me, but I don't think you guys should be continueing this bridgekeeper talk. I have a bad feeling it may evolve into a discussion that will eventually out the bridge keeper.

@Farside,

I suspect Chenshi for pretty much the same reasons, SpyreX does. But like you, farside, I kinda want to find and lynch a far scummier player simply because lynches of players that lurk that much, feel like such a crap shoot. Hense I am going to try and find a far scummier player, assuming there is one.

@Mod-Shaft.ed please prod Killa Seven

prodded this morning

[PokerFace]

PF -- you've mentioned several times that you're looking for the tobacoonist. Even on D1 you said you were looking for cigs. Why do you think the tobacoonist hasn't come forward? Or at least breadcrumbed to you? I am starting to think he doesn't exist. Do you think that's possible? Or do you think there might be reasons the tobacoonist isn't coming forward? (I realize this might involve role speculation, and that's not what I want to get started. You can merely say "yes, I think there might be a reason" without speculating what that reason might be. If you think it will give away important info).

Indeed I have considered the possiblity he doesn't exist. In fact I posted this earlier in the game:

Lastly, On flavor alone I am fairly certain the person I am searching for, who has some cigarettes and matches, is either Town or they don't exist, meaning I got nerfed. I suppose it is also possible they want to keep silent for other reasons. (10% chance they are scum, 55% chance I got nerfed they don't exist, 35% chance they are town and not said anything yet). I am willing to respect their hiding I guess, so unless someone wants to claim to be the one I am looking for, I'm just going to have to assume they want to stay silent, since I am rather stuborn at giving up entirely. See you guys later I'm getting hungry.

At this moment I'd say the probablity he doesn't exist is now about 85%. And if that percent is correct, then that would mean I get my cigs and matches based on how I ask the question and not who I ask it to. And yes I guess its possible they have some alterior reasons for not coming forward, meaning they got something hide like their own powers or they are scum. And I'd put that possibility at 15%. These numbers are mostly estimations based on what I have learned and my flavor. I don't have exact number formulas for you on how I got to these values.

[PokerFace]

PokerFace, I will have to reread your posts again. Not to look for alignment clues, but to try to understand some of your theories. I know you’ve been through a lot, flavor- and night-wise, but sometimes I don’t know how you have reached some of your conclusions. I think I disagree with some of them, but is that because I don’t understand them? Or is it the other way around: perhaps I only think I don’t understand them because I disagree with them? One example would be your rationale why you think K7 is town in post 985. (For what it’s worth, I don’t think that killa seven’s alignment necessarily reflects on PokerFace’s; if K7 is ever shown to be mafia, I wouldn’t conclude the same for PF and I’m not sure why anyone would.) Like I said, I will do some re-reading of your posts to see if they make better sense this time around, but for now I would like to ask one question. In posts 1120 and 1123, you talked about how “scum [potentially could have] killed and blocked two skills.” I’m wondering which two blocks you are talking about (I only see references to the possible block of Iron Man in your previous posts) and, more importantly, why you think “scum” must have done the blocking. Sorry if this is explained in the game elsewhere or if I’m misunderstanding you, but can you clarify that statement?

I think you may have misunderstood me. Perhaps I should word things better now. If the Scum can block and kill, then they can effectivly stop 2 actions. One action they can stop via the block, and the other they can stop via the kill.

Those that claimed day 1 and survived to night 1

SpyreX - did give action
Ironman - Did not give action on that day
Gurgi - Did not give action
Bruce - Did not give action

Other Data

Gurgi said his action was nulled due PR breaking

So scum only have to stop 3 possible actions from those that claimed, so they "could have":
Blocked Iron Man
Killed Imaginality
And left SpyreX alone considering his role claim is the same as Darla's

Keep in mind that these are only assumptions. I don't know know if the Spainish Inquistion is part of mafia or an SK so its possible scum couldn't plan their actions like this. And its also possible Scum can't role block further changing things.

As it stands I currently lean towards the possibility a lurker like Ironman did not get his action in on time, and Shaft.ed didn't count it.

Ok then 2 options with Ironman's skill not working. 1 he was roleblocked by scum or 2...

Now, I'm awake but it seems a few of you are still sawing it off. Now, I'll give you slackers 24 hours to have completed your night actions before I wake everyone up. Get along then, ten nine, eight and all that.

Someone who lurks like ironman i can see getting a skill in too late and the colonel/shaft.ed not counting it. This same warning was not posted during night 2 when ironman was dead and thus not possibly late on a second action. Either way I know ironman's skill did not take effect.

__________________________________

My current view of Muerto, is I agree that he doesn't seem like himself from

Elemental Mafia, a cult game where cult's could kill and recruit.

Here's the link:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8167
(If I find more cult games where they could kill and recruit. I'll let you see the links)

His supisions and coments do come off as a bit contradictory as I said before, and so this recent fray between him and SpyreX does perplex me. The situation doesn't quiet look OMGUS from either direction since they have both made some valid points from my view. Though Muerto not voting and supporting his suspicions on SpyreX does give me the impression he is not being entirely genuine with his suspicions.

Instead of following through with his own views against lurker lynches and proceeding with lynching SpyreX; Muerto is going after the lurkers just like a vast majority of other players here. So it looks to me like he is in some ways, saying one thing and doing another. It kinda looks hypocrtical. And I wonder if he is performing these actions/holding those suspicions in order to go with the flow of everyone else.

@Muerto,

could you respond to this:

hmm... so you think he has a good chance of being cult (because he doesn't think there is one), but otherwise don't suspect him considering he isn't scummy compared to those you earlier mentioned.
Is that what you are saying Muerto?

I can see why Muerto's comments have come off as somewhat contradictory. Since Muerto wants to lynch the cult, it would make sence he would want to vote for and scumhunt someone who has a good chance of being cult. I think this is the conection SpyeX is making. Muerto, do you see you previous suspects as having a good chance of being in a cult? Do you want to lynch cult or scum(Mafia, SK, etc) first or does it not matter to you who goes first?

I myself have played alot of theme games, and have never seen two players claim to be the same character, and then later, both turn up that character. One has always turned up a liar and they have been scum.

Here we had one tell the truth about there character and turn up scum so that certainly puts a new spin on things. I myself have conisdered the possibility of SpyreX being in different scum group than darla's. I don't think his position on the cult possibly being a red herring, necessarily makes him a definite cult suspect (Would that make him a recruit or a recruiter?). I myself have mentioned being wary of his claim, but aside from the claim I have seen SpyeX as fairly protown so I'm not sure what to make of the entire situation. I guess I'd call it beyond logical, beyond silly, beyond anything I'm used to.

The part of me that loves to vig on night 0 and boasts about his IRC scum kill accuracy in MD, wishes I was a simple vig so that I could understand my role and go on a killing spree of lurkers and other things that confuse me. That way, not too much time is spent discussing the too confusing and the too lurky. No one apreciates this joke, do they? I need to stop playing violent video games on my days off.

[PokerFace]

Also, to PF specifically, what do you mean by the softclaim?

Huh? Which post of mine are you refering to where I said that? I'm a bit deprived of sleep right now so I can't honestly remember. Can you refresh my memory on what you're talking about?

[PokerFace]

Where did it say he was shot SpyreX?

I am apparently losing my mind. I swear it said he was shot - but, rereading, it sure doesn't one bit - just slain.

SpyreX's claim was same name, different powers. Something to note.

Yes, my role is French Taunter that taunts someone to target me. DBE said she was a French Taunter that RB'd (but came up role attractor).

I really dont think the cult is as likely as an SK - I can not think of a way the Unrecruiter would have worked that wouldn't have broken the game; I think it was a flavor name for Brian.

As for suspects:
Chenshi (Lurking, but obviously here, saying he's made statements he hasn't, no contribution (as well as some ongoing game meta).
Muerrto (I'll give a full case later, but a pinch of OMGUS, the odd focus on the cult (and me being in it), the "hunting lurkers is bad, my suspects (aside from K7) are suspects for lurking and the fact I, who he's brought up more than once, isn't even on there)

The Internet (Breadcrumb Hunting, The Softclaim, The K7 hunt / defending Chenshi)

Why the K7 thing bothers me at this point:
Yes, K7 COULD be scum, but of everyone he's tied himself tightest to another player. Although there are scenarios where K7 is scum and PF isn't, the Razor suggests to me that they are both the same alignment and, due to PF, I believe them to be town. Of course, the fact that K7 gives another player a night action could be very handy (one of the roles that has been claimed that would make sense for scum to get rid of).

I think I K7 lynch is a bad call today, Personally. The Fact is that although I dont like his play, he's made the connection that I dont think needs to be called out at this moment.

Of them, Chenshi is definitely far higher on my list today.

Um this is post 1130. It's written by SpyreX, not me. Are you deprived of sleep too and thefore confusing us?

[PokerFace]

Oh yay, I got prodded again...

Looking through the posts about me (since that's all I have time for right now), I see that some people want me to role claim? Should I?

Get on with it.

[PokerFace]

@Killa seven,

is english your primary language? I can see someone who secondary or third language being english having a lurker playstyle if he doesn't know english as his best language. That or its possible he is just in a bunch of games and thus is not able to focus himself in just one.

Also K7 why send Mirth after Lord Gurgi, any reason for using your skill like that?

[PokerFace]

hmm... indeed if Chenshi gave opinions on actual players, scumhunted, that would be even better than claiming. If he is not going to do anything he should claim and/or be replaced. I can't even say he is playing the game right now with what he has done participationwise. I still say I'd pick him as an SK over being in a scum group simply, because I think if he had a scum buddy they would coach him. The people defending him don't seem like scum. How does chenshi find this game fun?

While I am here i got another question

@Muerto,

could you respond to this:

hmm... so you think he has a good chance of being cult (because he doesn't think there is one), but otherwise don't suspect him considering he isn't scummy compared to those you earlier mentioned.
Is that what you are saying Muerto?

I can see why Muerto's comments have come off as somewhat contradictory. Since Muerto wants to lynch the cult, it would make sence he would want to vote for and scumhunt someone who has a good chance of being cult. I think this is the conection SpyeX is making. Muerto, do you see you previous suspects as having a good chance of being in a cult? Do you want to lynch cult or scum(Mafia, SK, etc) first or does it not matter to you who goes first?

I already did but sure. I just answered the first one a second ago to Spyrex. It's all about his claim. I just don't buy it. I've never seen a dup claim in a theme game...ever. I won't ever buy it till I see it.

As for the second, right now I wanna see others scum hunting who haven't been really. Some people have yet to post their lists so far as I can tell. I don't trust Spyrex, but it's not LYLO and I'm not gonna lynch him because of his claim at this time. Not to mention I have no support for it so it's simply a waste of the town's time.

And as for my participation. I don't think I've lurked in the least. I've contributed o the discussion quite a bit and posted pretty consistently. But in elemental I had a job where I could access this site during work. Now I don't. I check the board when I get home, sometimes in the morning too. That's about it. But I'd say I've posted at least every other day except weekends. I think calling my participation into play is a pretty low blow since I don't feel it's been lacking. And voting me for it?

That's just weak.

@Muerto,

is the bolded part suppose to be directed at me or someone else? Because it feels almost like you're adressing me since you don't mention anyone's name and you did quote and answer me with the first parts.

[PokerFace]

I will say the only thing I think that will help some people (maybe) understand what I will be doing.

What ever doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

With that said I am going to look at each person I named and go through why and what I found as scummy.

When Farside first said this I thought she was refering to the Black Knight. Were you farside?

[PokerFace]

Holy Wicked simul postings!

I want to post one last thing I have archived before the day ends so hang on one moment people.

[PokerFace]

Sure

if you feel that is necessary.

It will give others something to watch while I find where I put some rather startling evedence I held off on posting earlier.

[PokerFace]

Well if everyone else wants it then you can post it. But above all you should be certain you watch the entire thing. If Chenshi is not who you are looking for, then that might be bad.

If you can't figure out if he is the one you are looking for, then in that situation it may be necessary to post it. If all those factors don't matter then I think its ok.

If someone wants to disagree with me then they may.

[PokerFace]

EBWOP:
If you can't figure out if he is the one you are looking for, then in that situation it may be necessary to post it. If all those factors don't matter then I think its ok

if you don't

not sure how that was cut off

[PokerFace]

I have only seen one pro-town player with nk imunity in my experience.

Xtoxm in Doctor Who Mafia 2.
I think I linked that game earlier somewhere among my posts.

While I have seen about a dozen SK's with some level of imunity. Do you think Farside should post her video Strappado?

I am still looking for that one post I saved on my computer but didn't post earlier. I really hope I did not delete it.

[PokerFace]

I think Gurgi pointed out the

a

with respect to

a

French Taunter. If someone counter's Chenshi my head will turn upside down. ( I am not asking for someone too, I'm just saying what I will literally do because that will be crazy)

Also I just noticied something. My role refers to me as

The

and not a. Doubt that really matters but I figured I say it

[PokerFace]

How many more times am I gonna get simul posted today! For the love of god!

[PokerFace]

We may want to stop mentioning that in case it is modkill worthy. I doubt that it is but I don't want to everyone tempting fate

^This^

[PokerFace]

I'll have to look back and check on her reactions to you. I guess that makes sence but why did you send her after Gurgi? Why Gurgi? I don't recall you or her suspecting him.

[PokerFace]

Ok I found what I was looking for. The post was on my work computer and I was off yesterday so I apoligize for that part of the delay since that was my bad I should have sent the post to my home email a long time ago.

Once K7 gives his opinion on this...

I'll have to look back and check on her reactions to you. I guess that makes sence but why did you send her after Gurgi? Why Gurgi? I don't recall you or her suspecting him.

If he picked Gurgi out of a hat or whatever I still want his answer, I was able to easily think of a reason he sent me after Strappado, but I don't see why K7 would send someone after Gurgi.

Mirth did question K7 some and she was fairly pro-town so I guess that much makes sence but I don't recall Mirth or K7 being suspicious of Gurgi. Only I have really been that.

You choose one player to track another? ...that is really really weird. Video link?

unvote: chenhsi
vote: Iron Man

Iron Man, answer the questions you've yet to answer please? (including about your early wagon jumping which you still didnt get to even though I asked lots and lots of times)

Once K7 responds I'll be giving another post and we'll be moving toward lynching Chenshi or another person I have suspected. For now I have a rather interesting Ace up my sleve and I won't say who the ace is directed at just yet.

I have held off on posting this information for a few reasons. I wanted to see where things went pretaining to Muerto, SpyreX, and Chenshi. This post has something important that will shift discussion in an entirely new direction if what I assume is correct, so I want the current direction greatly sorted first.

Speaking of sorting some things I was questioning Muerto because of his Character and manor in Elemental vs this game. I think he has been acting different in terms of agresiveness and boldness. He pushed wagons more strongly in that game. He has responded to my comments somewhat still there...

EBWOP: Oh, and I ran the town in elemental because I knew I was invincible after I had to claim so until I started pulling suspiscion I had no fear (untargetable at night townie). I usually lead the discussion in newbie games as well but here it's not the same case. I'm obviously not invincible(although it'd be nice) and the players here are a bit more seasoned so I'm content running with the pack rather than heading it up. But to say I'm falling behind the pack is false.

and yet I don't recall saying I considered him lurking so I still wonder why he felt the need to direct this at so many including those that did not specifically say he was lurking.

And as for my participation. I don't think I've lurked in the least. I've contributed to the discussion quite a bit and posted pretty consistently. But in elemental I had a job where I could access this site during work. Now I don't. I check the board when I get home, sometimes in the morning too. That's about it. But I'd say I've posted at least every other day except weekends. I think calling my participation into play is a pretty low blow since I don't feel it's been lacking. And voting me for it?

That's just weak.

@Muerto,

is the bolded part suppose to be directed at me or someone else? Because it feels almost like you're adressing me since you don't mention anyone's name and you did quote and answer me with the first parts.

Generally everyone but more Elvis who voted me.

Either I forgot where I said he was lurking or I did not say it so his response looks odd to me there.

I'll post my big post after K7 responds, I don't think I need to wait for Muerto to show my hand.

[PokerFace]

I googled the black knight myself to refresh my memory. Being 2 or 3 times bulletproof fits with the character since he gets his arms and leg cut off and still lives. But I think the character is much more likely to be evil than good, even though the power makes sense.

unvote; vote chenhsi

No body hammer just yet since I and some other still have more to say.

Also I don't think someone's character being Bad is a valid reason to lynch them. I have played in games were the main here was scum and the villian was town so we should not look for lynches with respect to that.

In Clerks Mafia the Main character's helpful yet misguided sidekick was an SK, and I heard tales of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer Mafia having Buffy as an SK. Good guys can be bad and vice versa. Chenshi should be lynched for his overall scummy play, not his character.

[PokerFace]

Yay that was my bad. Somewhere along the lines I lost count vote wise. Farside did unvote so yay that was totally my bad. Still though I would prefer no one hammer til everything was sorted.

[PokerFace]

You know an interesting thought just crossed my mind.

Alot of people are saying his role fits an SK and yet the only kill an SK Black Knight could have made so far would be on Luigi since the Spainish Inquisition got Bruce and Mirth.

Farside said she is looking for an SK and it is probably not the Black Knight.

@Farside,

can Chenshi be an SK in your mind based on what you know.

@Strappado,

You just asked Chenshi for who his partners may be. So you think he has a potential for being Mafia or Cult. Who would you guess as his partners. What do you think of him being an SK?

[PokerFace]

Hmm... Chenshi said earlier he didn't know much about Monty Python. If Chenshi is what he says he is and is a Mafia then that would feel unbalanced based on how likly an SK or Vig or cult that can kill existing is. If he is town and all then there would have to be and equal amount of scum oposition in terms of them able to kill people. If Chenshi is an SK then he would have to be able to die 2 times with respect to a scum group a vig and a cult. I doubt scum would kill Chenshi for obv reasons with his play and have doubt he would be killed either ways. He is scummy and yet some things don't make sence to me. The town conclusion feels likly in these terms only, yet I must admit I don't know everything about setup and its

probable

highly likly further siliiness.

There is enough evidence from Chenshi's play to warrant a lynch in his direction, yet I am still hesitant since it feels like such a general crap shot and certain elements of what we have seen killwise per night don't add up to me. Perhaps I can find and push a better lynch then.

Craps is my worse game whenever I hit the casino. But Black jack is my best. The Dealer has an ace. Who wants insurance?

I'll save you the trouble of calculating the odds of Gurgi actually having that post restriction and show you some stuff I found. I set a trap for Darla and she walked in and it would appear Gurgi has done the same. Gurgi you know you are my friend since we play on irc and scumchat some, but since I think you're scum and/or potential lying, i got to bring this up. Nothing personal good buddy.

Inconsitances:

1) Gurgi said it was on the 13th in his #12 post and later he said it was 1 in every 13 in his #29. Feel free to view his post in isolation at the bottom of the page to confirm this. Now this ain't too bad since he told us all by himself with no prompting still it was something I took note of.

2) It don't reset each day and yet the penalty is loss of night skill? No matter how you look at it 2+2 != 5. If thats the case I wouldn't bother keeping it up after I had lost my night skill since continuing the restriction might not do anything. Wasted work but that's just cause I'm lazy.

3) Bruce has been confirmed town by death which means he was genuine and telling the truth. His restriction penalty was modkill. (No need to acknowledge this comment imaginalty, I don't want you mod killed for mentioning things that should only be noted or confirmed by the dead). Gurgi gets off with loss of night action while the cop gets modkilled? Bruce was also allowed to mess up in pre-game (Or so we were told) while Gurgi couldn't

4) Doing the Albatross thing in "You are what you eat" and what that would mean towards chances of such a role going to you here as Elvis exclaimed. Believing Ironman's random thing would keep things the same is just as prepostrous as this thing here since role selection should be random. Not impossible but still out there

And now its game time. The big kicker LIE anouncement moment. Got him with the same thing that I got Darla with, The Penalty count, and then some special zas just for Gurgi...drumroll please...

a) Gurgi claims only getting 1 on day 1 and thus he did not use his skill then but did get to use it night 2.
b) Gurgi claims The restriction count does not reset each day.
c) Gurgi claims he must use the word Albatross at the start and end. It MUST BE THERE.
d) Gurgi claims he can not save them up and therefore get 2 during a future set of 13.
e) Pre-game and twighlight still count as times Gurgi must follow the restriction. He gets no time he is allowed to mess up.

#0-12, #13-25, #26-38, #39-51, #52-64, #65-77, #78-90
#12___#14___ #26____#None__#60&61 WTF!!!!

Lord Gurgi #60 post at the end of day 2. Do you see the word Albatross? I only see the 10 word thing.

I assume that means we got scum? MAN, we're good.

That would mean this post broke his restriction and counted as the 13 thing. But then we have Lord Gurgi #61 post. That was the big post he had at the begining of the day.

For this analysis and really long post I am going to be using a matrixed system to simplify my reading of playstyle and alignment. Please read this whole thing. Thanks.

...

I will not vote until people respond to this post. Then I'll act based on reactions and my reads. Finally done.

Either shaft.ed is blind and he did not see the slips entailed here or you are lying straight up to us, Gurgi. I could have ignored the inconsistancies but this is too much. So tell me why? Why did you fake it man? You have been playing an awesome game so far. The faking here is the soul reason I ever was suspicious of you. I have not seen you as scummy at all. No slips or scumtells have I seen. You have been doing a perfect game so far in my view. So why did you risk so much just to have fun again? Why man?

Are you even the albatross guy? Did you ever post a video?

Sorry good buddy, but I think you got to go.

Vote: Gurgi

Gurgi is a liar and likly scum me thinks. Can you guys think of anything else to discuss before the day is over? Deadline is quite a bit away I am fine with waiting for everybody to react to whatever since night means more people die. If we can find more scum today that will be cool, but for now I am happy with where my vote is.

Gurgi should be given a chance to explain what is here, and then he should probably be lynched assuming Shaft.ed did not mess up on PR breaking penalties. Not sure what to make of K7 randomly picking Gurgi. I see nothing wrong with it and yet that target was unexpected so I can't say I see anything right with it. I still think K7 is town for now so I will over look the randomness for now and see what he does tomorrow.

Chenshi should post his Video and so should Gurgi under the suspicions I have entailed here if he really is Mr. Albatross. I can see reason for Chenshi to be lynched yet I feel certain odds don't look to be in favor. If you guys disagree and approve of a chenshi lynch over a Gurgi one, i don't think I'll protest it any further. There is good reason for thinking he is scum yet I am still hesitant to follow through based on other odds. So I guess I'll ask you all which lynch you all think is better and we can go from there. If needed, I think I'd be ok with lynching Gurgi tomorrow. I should be alive tomorrow if all my role calculations are correct flavorwise since I have a pretty good guess how to get my cigs tonight. I am fine with lynching Gurgi tomorrow if chenshi is lynched instead today. Let's give Chenshi and Gurgi some time to respond to the acusations on them and then proceed accordingly by lynching one of them.

in case it don't count in my quote...

Vote: Gurgi

[PokerFace]

hmm... reading over your recent post it would appear I may have mixed up and confused something relating to your post restriction. This would technically be a good thing since I have not seen you as scummy play wise. You have made useful assessments of the game though restricted. So yes me being wrong is a good thing however it technically makes me feel like an idiot.

#0-12, #13-25, #26-38, #39-51, #52-64, #65-77, #78-90
#12___#14___ #26____#None__#60&61 WTF!!!!

Lord Gurgi #60 post at the end of day 2. Do you see the word Albatross? I only see the 10 word thing.

I thought your twelve restricted were bound by sets. Multiples of 13, meaning you could have tweleve among these 13 as restricted and one unrestricted.

I basically thought you could do this...
Among posts 0-12 your were allowed to mess up once
Among posts 13-25 your were allowed to mess up once
Among posts 26-38 your were allowed to mess up once. etc..
The mess up does not have to be on the 13th post it could be anywhere among the 13. It seems I have considered a second reset principle meaning you had it bound to each set. My bad.


__________________
~~Outlining Starts~~

But you are apparently allowed to make 1 unrestricted under the condition you make 12 restricted ones before or after. And those 12 can be bent around the restricted one like...

12R - 1U -

1R - 1U - 11R

- 1U - 12+(34)R - 1U - 1U - 12+(25)R - 1U...
...
#12___#14___ #26____#None__#60&61___86*

Key*
U means unrestricted
R means restricted

And you also can't double post. I think I got it all understood now. My bad dude.

~~End of Outlining~~

The probably of the role randomly going to you is merely an inconsistancy. There is a way to explain that, Gurgi just got lucky. I admit it is a difficult to swallow explanation but I think I'll let it fly this time since once you have been to the casino and won as many times as I have, you are willing to believe people get lucky sometimes.

Also

@Farside,

Well I just went back and looked at LG's post. Today alone not only did he have that big one post in the begging of the day he has posted 24 times with the albatros and not put in another big post in there at all.

Question is if he goes over his post limit is there a penalty?
Also didn't he say at one point he was penalized for the mess up?

Gurgi already explained this one

Albatross!

Big Post coming,

trying to avoid penalties

. Waiting for substance.

Albatross!

Nothing wrong with being over careful. I see no reason why he would get in trouble for doing more than 12 restricted. He has managed to use some among those twelve to question/scum hunt people and the like so i got no problem there. Though if I were him, I'd be using my unrestricted posts as much as possible simply because I'm like that.

Oh and the word Zas is just something me and other people involved in acting use. I act at a local theatre in my spare time as a hobby. And sometimes I write my own material. Zas basically means, make it look snazzy or dramaticand. Basically I am a sucker for the dramatics and felt like throwing in a drum roll because I aprove of Lynch all Liars and thought I had scum. I now feel like an idiot for calling a Royal Flush with only a Full House. That was my bad but i think things are squared now.

If what what i underlined/outlined is true please say...

Albatross!

PF was dumb. He got it now. Three word phrase.

Albatross!

Again totally my bad, i think i got it now.

Respond with that, or correct me best you can so we are square.

I'll unvote after that. There is no need to post video or claim role and or skill any further since it appears I may have just been misunderstanding. Its a good thing I was wrong. Though I feel like an idiot now. Hope nobody holds that against me. Anybody got ideas on anything else to discuss today?

[PokerFace]

Perverted Hungarian Phrase!

Unvote

, I'm an idiot.

Kick's himself

. Chenshi post your video.

Perverted Hungarian Phrase!

[PokerFace]

Well, I was gonna chime in on LG, but that started, developed and finished too quick to get a word in edgewise.

Although I guess I do have to change something - I was going to target PF tonight just to prove at minimum I have the role I said I do, but it sounds like you have some method to actually get your cigs so back to the drawing board.

Well I'm probably making it simplier than it looks actually, but to make a long story short, based on how people have claimed and reacted to knowledge of my search so far, the tobaconist can only be one person. And if its not them then its got to be based on how i ask the question. If it is the person i think it is then the situation is solved otherwise I'd say i'm barely a 3rd of the way on figuring out the proper question. And that's being optimistic, but I guess I will try one thing different...

I will not say who i'm going to target so this request goes out to everybody for now, but basically should anybody hearing this get aproached by a perverted phrase tonight, I would like you to respond as though you had cigarettes and a book of matches for me (Both of those items)

. Try offering them to me during the night like Mirth did earlier.

EBWOP. I'm also going to try an experiment.

Pokerface

if you are looking for a specific role, it is probably not me. But I'm going to try this anyway, since no one who bothered commenting objected. I will sell you cigarettes/matches/a lighter/cigars/a pipe with tobacco/nicorette gum.

Now then, did anything happen after I said that?

I doubt this idea is going to work, but if it does I won't complain.

_________________

Based on balance of how two kill protections would work and what allignment would suit a role with that considering what kills we have seen so far, I am now becoming uncertain. I doubt he is Mafia because the protection would not be needed to stop mafia kills. I have never seen a scum group able to kill one of their own. So that basically means he is either Town or SK or some crazy cult variant. This would make sence with my oppinion that if he is mafia, his scum buddies are not coaching him well. I try to coach my scum buddies during the night if I feel they need it whenever I'm scum. And if I was scum with Chenshi, I would definatly have tried to coach him some. He has been scummy so far and I can not think of a better lynch right now so I gues i'm ok with it.

@The Internet,

Seeing whats happened so far, I think it is adviseable to lynch chenshi today. However, he is at L-1, and though he is the best candidate for lynching, I feel that he has not dropped any major scumtells and not that many monor ones, so I'm not comfortable hammering him.

So you think he should be lynched, but you don't want to be on the wagon?

_________________

And also as far as

Jesters

are concerned

Strappado

I would not be surprised to see one in the setup. Whenever I see someone claim Jester I always lynch them straight up immediatly. Why? well they are always 1 of 2 things:
a) They are scum trying to badly fake claim and some how avoid a lynch
b) They really are a Jester. I rarely see this, but it does happen.
One thing is for certain. They are not town. No townie would ever claim Jester, I see no reason for it. Whenever I have seen a Jester lynched in a large game, the game will always continue. Basically Town and scum can still both win along with the Jester. Just because the Jester wins, does not mean you loose.

They are gauranteed not to be town and you are gauranteed not to loose immediatly for lynching them.

So I see no reason not to lynch them. Some people consider the suggesting of Jesters in a setup as being a scumtell alone. I am not easily sold on that idea since its only merit would be if that scumo is trying to find something safe to claim, and its certainly not safe or harmful as far as I'm concerned. So let's quit spooking people on this matter strappado we'll deal with this bridge should we ever cross it.

Anybody able to think of anything else to discuss while we wait and see in Chenshi has any last words and or a video for us?

[PokerFace]

@Strappado and K7,

do you feel the need to discuss what you did last night?

Also my brain offically hurts bad. That idea of mine failed I am offically out of ideas and I highly doubt the tobaconist even exists considering so many have said they did not have cigs and matches during the day or during the night. I have every player checked off my list with respect to who said no during the day or during the night, or who claimed a role that wasn't the tobaconist. I propositioned/courted with imaginality/Jordan last night.

Elvis night 1 response translated as:

The Mother has Elephant ankles!

The Internet's night 2 translated as:

The Sister's buttocks gets more visitors than the Eifel Tower!

imaginality/Jordan's night 3 response translated as:

The Father's pants stand pink and lustrious

If any body has an idea as to what these phrases mean I'd be glad to hear it. For now it just looks like Shaft.ed is trying to make a wierd new version of The Aristocrats Joke.

Anyone with an answer to where the tobacconist is please come forward. I would also apreciate anyone making heads or tales out of the three phrases I listed. I wish I knew hungarian exactly so that perhaps this entire endevor would be easier.

@imaginality/Jordan,

please

paraphase

to me what you heard me say to you and what you responded back with. I assume you don't have cigs and matches for me?

Also does anyone see crumbs on who SpyreX made as his target?

It was me before these posts and so I see no crumbs really.

Well, I was gonna chime in on LG, but that started, developed and finished too quick to get a word in edgewise.

Although I guess I do have to change something - I was going to target PF tonight just to prove at minimum I have the role I said I do, but it sounds like you have some method to actually get your cigs so back to the drawing board.

Logic? Good luck. I agree with LG, lets hammertime and get this done with.

Also on chenshi the Name Cardinal Fang was found. The comfy chair is back in use some how. I recall the names of the other spainish cardnals as being Cardinal Biggles and Cardinal Xemphis (sp?). The two of them may also be in the game if the chair is still in use on a Real Second Town Taunter too.

[PokerFace]

Well that's funny Ninja

. Yesterday you were pretty confident in what the bridge keeper said about SpyreX. The BK investigated the internet on night 2, or that's at least what the Internet claimed. You trust his night 1 investigation but not his night 2.

What's with these differing views considering that point?

I am a little undecided on the internet myself.

@The Internet,

Seeing whats happened so far, I think it is adviseable to lynch chenshi today. However, he is at L-1, and though he is the best candidate for lynching, I feel that he has not dropped any major scumtells and not that many monor ones, so I'm not comfortable hammering him.

So you think he should be lynched, but you don't want to be on the wagon?

I usually see posts like this when a scumo is trying to stay off a wagon he knows as town. This way he can encouraged townies to lynch other townies without looking bad for dropping the hammer of being on the wagon. Chenshi flipping scum kinda hurts this view unless the internet is a part of a different scum group.

Anyone want to comment on my view here?

_________________

PokerFace, I did indeed receive your message during the night: paraphrasing a bit, you complimented me on the sleekness of my body hair by comparing me positively to a farmyard animal.

No, I don't actually have cigs and matches for you, but I responded as though I did as per your suggestion in post 1301. Sorry that it didn't work out... I think it's looking increasingly likely that your role is for amusement value only... which it certainly provides.

There is one thing i have been able to successfully do. I have figured out what will happen to me when I get cigarettes and matches. And i am 1105 certain of what this thing is. I actually alluded to this really bizarre skill earlier. Its something i have never seen before in my experiance, and no! I will not claim what it fully is for you now

Cigarettes don't kill me, but they do make me stronger. Now I don't turn into an SK, I am 100% certain I don't do that. In fact if my new theory (thx Elvis & Internet) is correct, giving cigarettes to me 'can' actually help the town, the scum, the cult, everybody 'can' be helped if my theory is correct. But since I believe I can choose who would recieve the benefit from my skill, the town will recieve the benefit. They all 'can' benefit, BUT since I am the one using the skill, only those I choose to benefit, will. At least this is what I think for now. I'll explain once I test my skill one more time. I could be off big time and i could be right on the money. Shaft.ed had fun with my role and if I'm right this game just got sillyer. !My Brain hurts too!

Since I have figured out what happens I must be able to get there somehow. Either via how the question sounds or by who it targets. I got no clue who I'll target tonight. I might take everyone's name, write them on the wall, blindfold myself, and throw darts at it. That idea may actually work with my luck. At this point either there is no tobaconist or someone lied to me about not having my merchandice during the day. Which would probably make them scum.

[PokerFace]

That's actually an interesting point strappado.

The BK mostly likly exists with you seeing him on night 1 and the dead town SpyreX claiming to have seen him too. I would hate to see that guy getting forced to claim.

BTW I didn't mean to come off as attacking you saying the word spook in reference to the Jester stuff. I meant to be sarcastic. I think I joke too much and perhaps have maltreated you in perticular too much during this game. Or at least come off like that at a few points. I hope you don't take that as personal. Sorry if i have been upsetting you alot.

Later on this week, or worst case next week, I'm going to try and do some more scum hunting and develop a list on who I am suspicious of and who i am not suspicious of. I severly hope I get to it this week over next.

[PokerFace]

heh heh, I wouldn't have it any other way Strappado. I think I did do slightly more scum hunting day 1 compared to the other days, so I indeed need to pick things back up some. And I get Gurgi's logic so I'll just give a list of who I'm suspicious of when I find time between games.

@Muerto,

Ding, ding, and we have a wagoneer. I was debating about whether to work on a case against you or Muerrto, but I think with muerrto's revelation of being visited by bridgekeeper I'll make you the target of my scumhunt today.

Um...2 votes is a wagon when it takes 6 to lynch? This post sounds a tad over defensive to me.

Over defensiveness is by no means a scum tell in my book. Are you saying you consider it one? If so why? Would you join his wagon for that reason?

[PokerFace]

About the kill on spyrex...

Maybe someone whith a better understanding of how his role works can help me. I think PF seemed to understand it pretty well.

Is there any way of knowing if Spyrex died because he was targetted or because he targetted a scum, drawing their kill? Is there any use speculating, or is it something we can't know?

Using just SpyreX and anyone he may have crumbed as our only info (

Anyone see any crumbs below?

) There is no absolute definate.

Also does anyone see crumbs on who SpyreX made as his target?

It was me before these posts and so I see no crumbs really.

Well, I was gonna chime in on LG, but that started, developed and finished too quick to get a word in edgewise.

Although I guess I do have to change something - I was going to target PF tonight just to prove at minimum I have the role I said I do, but it sounds like you have some method to actually get your cigs so back to the drawing board.

Logic? Good luck. I agree with LG, lets hammertime and get this done with.

Also on chenshi the Name Cardinal Fang was found. The comfy chair is back in use some how. I recall the names of the other spainish cardnals as being Cardinal Biggles and Cardinal Xemphis (sp?). The two of them may also be in the game if the chair is still in use on a Real Second Town Taunter too.

I have never been a fan of directing power roles but I did just now think of one way we could have done it.

1) SpyreX grabs somebody
2) Strappado Watches SpyreX seeing how many characters target him and who.
3) K7 sends "Jon Doe" after SpyreX.

That "Jon Doe" learns who Spyre grabbed. If SpyreX dies and Strappado sees only Patsy (K7) target SpyreX then K7 did the killing. If Strappado see 2 characters Patsy (K7) and one other ??? then the other must have done the killing. Strappado claims there was only 2. "Jon Doe" says who was grabbed.

Whoever was grabbed has to claim their real character since Strappado saw it. If they fake claim or can't explain the kill well enough then imediatly lynch the guy SpyreX grabbed. Should the grabbed guy turn up innocent then K7 must have sent the kill since he was also seen by Strappado. Lynch K7.

HOWEVER Should Strappado have seen 3 or more people (K7 the grabbed guy and Whoever else) then there is no way of really determining things. Guy grabbed by SpyreX and the third guy could have both made the shot so it would only work if Strappado saw only 2. Every other town player would have to refuse to target SpyreX ever in order to get best chance of getting best results. But even still if there was any role blocking or redirectors involved then we would not have enough definate info. With such a silly setup there may even be a miller for trackers here. A Gravedigger which always targets whoever dies. So we could make some firm educated guess towards finding things out, but there would be no 100% esspecially if we had mapped this plan out earlier. In order to have mapped it out I would have had to say it in public in thread and telling the Scum our plans is about as smart as putting a loaded gun to your head.

I doubt all the actions went well along those lines, so if we do figure out who SpyreX grabbed then they should recieve suspicion but really

there is no gaurantee.

If I had to take a guess at who SpyreX grabbed, I would guess he would grab someone he or somebody else suspected yesterday. People that got suspicion yesterday:

1) Muerto <<SpyreX suspected him like Elvis just said

2) Azimuth And The Internet
Ninja <<Farside and gurgi suspect him, just like I suspected Strap at the end of day one, and Farside suspected Elvis at the end of day 2.

3a) I VAGUELY remember someone bringing up stuff on Imaginality / Jordan. So I guess he is a possible target but unlikly since I can't remember who brought the suspicions up even.
3b) Killa Seven <<SpyreX said he thought K7 was town so I see this as unlikly BUT there were some people that suspect him.
3c) Lord Gurgi <<Only I suspected him and that matter has been cleaned up so I don't see SpyreX drawing him.

I'm going to get in a suspicion list as soon as I can and use that to determine who I want to lynch. This info won't fully dictate who I vote for. My own analysis will determine who I vote for.

[PokerFace]

EBWOP!

People that got suspicion yesterday:

1) Muerto <<SpyreX suspected him like Elvis just said

2) Azimuth And The Internet and Ninja <<Farside and gurgi suspect him, just like I suspected Strap at the end of day one, and Farside suspected Elvis at the end of day 2.

3a) I VAGUELY remember someone bringing up stuff on Imaginality / Jordan. So I guess he is a possible target but unlikly since I can't remember who brought the suspicions up even.
3b) Killa Seven <<SpyreX said he thought K7 was town so I see this as unlikly BUT there were some people that suspect him.
3c) Lord Gurgi <<Only I suspected him and that matter has been cleaned up so I don't see SpyreX drawing him.

I'm going to get in a suspicion list as soon as I can and use that to determine who I want to lynch. This info won't fully dictate who I vote for. My own analysis will determine who I vote for.[/quote]

[PokerFace]

I don't remember Lancelot trying to recruit people. I thought it was Arthor who was trying to get people to join his knights on finding the grail. Was Lancelot trying to drum up recruits for the same thing or something else?

With how crazy this setup is I wouldn't be very surprised to see a cult recruiter. To have Arthur or Lancelot here as a cult recruiter would be interesting. Any chance Farside could be looking for a recruiter instead of an SK along these lines?

<<beats a beehive with a stick

[PokerFace]

@EVERYBODY!

Well I'm not sure I like doing this in terms of how early it is in the game and the chances the cult is a red herring, but if there really is a 4 man cult out there, the fastest way I can think to find the leader would be to massclaim. Massclaims earlier in the game don't work out well but if we are really this close to lylo with a cult that strong about, its the best thing I can think of.

There are quite a few roles that have gotten their particular actions confirmed. I can confirm that K7's action is what he says it is. He is not a cult recruiter or Mirth and SpyreX would have come up cult on their death. I am also not cult so if we want cult recruiter he ain't the lynch.

Strappado's action was confirmed by Mirth as being what it is since Mirth did hit SpyreX night 1 and was seen by Strappado. I believe Mirth attested to believing Strappado's action yet uncertain of strappado's alignment somewhere in one of Mirth's post. Can't find quote on that right now. Also if Strapp was cult SpyreX would have come up cult so Strappado is not a cult recruiter.

@Strappado,

if you think your night 2 action and targets would help identifying things you can reveal it when you feel its necessary since you have not yet. No need to reveal it imediatly since it may be useful in catching a liar amongst the other claimers.

Since Strappado's action is confirmed as what it is then The Machine that goes Bing! and the Bridge Keeper are not a cult recruiters. If they were SpyreX would have turned up cult on his Death since we know the Machine that goes bing! and the Bridge keeper targeted him. Machine that goes bing whoever that is, The Bridgekeeper whoever that is, are both not recruiters.

Also on night 1 I was hit by more actions than just K7. There is one more role and action I can confirm as non Cult recruiter. If you guys want me to reveal the role I can. I don't know who has said role but I know what it did to me. Based on what it did I have a pretty good guess at what Monty Python character would be able to perform such an action on me. There is only one sketch this action make sence from. If you guys are willing to trust me and possibly anyone they have targeted the other nights since I don't think they have been hitting just me every night, then that another we can confirm.

So right there I can confirm 5 people's actions as not being recruiting actions. 6 more roles to go. With a mass claim and enough 100% confirmable actions, we may be able to narrow down who has most potential of being a cult recruiter.

The 3 people I targeted over the last few nights should be able and have verified what I've been doing to them so if they want to clear me they may do so. None of them have died yet and been revealed as non cult so I'll leave it up to you guys if you want to say 6 role actions confirmed 5 to go. That would make the halfway point people.

Its a long process idea but I feel a mass claim now may be able to help us determine whose actions can potentially be recruiting actions and whose can't be. In my opinion there are only 5 possible that could be it

I will start a vote count on who will support Massclaim and who won't.

---------------------------------------------

Massclaim (1): PokerFace

No Massclaim (0):

Not voting (Everybody else)

---------------------------------------------

@Mod-Shaft.ed, would it be ok if I used some font colors to better set off that vote count? What colors can and can I not use based on your modding procedures? I don't want to do anything that will break your rules.

Anything but Blue

The massclaiming will not take place unless there is a majority vote. Keep in mind that this process is designed to root out potentialy cult recruiters only.

Anyone cleared non-recruiter can still be a recruit or mafia.

If a massclaim is to be done I suggest we do it in random dice role order among those that have not claimed. Using Popcorn would allow the cult recruiter to get his recruits to try to claim and confirm him too much by order they try to pick and influence, or at least thats what I think can happen. So I think random dice role of those who have not claimed would be best in determining orders.

Those wanting to support mass claim please type.

Vote: For massclaim

Those not wanting it or firmly against it can use correct tags to type:

Vote: Against Massclaim

And give reasons why they think it is a bad idea. We can then lynch some unconfirmed scummy person today to have our best chance of hitting the cult recruiter after this is over. Vote for or against the massclaim in your next post people.

[PokerFace]

We do not have a definate on what character would be the cult recruiter. Nor do we have 100% on them not having a safe claim. I assume Chenshi had one since no one counter him.

Since there was an unrecruiter it is highly likly that the cult recruits

do not know

who recruited them. Somebody that knew and talked with their recruiter and then was unrecruited could literally break the game. 2 taunters each with different alignments is incredibly borderline, but a setup that would allow the entire cult to be exposed like that is just too far. Things can't be that bastardly.

I would estimate 1 or 2 evil egocentric characters mafia members alive based on principles of balance. Most likly 2 since 3 would look crippled vs a town and a cult in an 18 player setup.

If recruits don't know who the recruiter is, that will help us since they won't be able to confirm his actions. Cult recruiters in all setups I have been in recruit you and only change your alignment. They don't do anything extra. Actions like K7's and the other thing that hit me had a noticable effects on me I was told of yet not told who did them. So if you can be recruited and not told who recruited you that may give us a decent edge.

I still think random is best claim order since if cult do know its recruits I don't want them organising orders that can benefit the confirming of actions for their side. They could cofirm the recruiters action as a lie and that would be bad in many ways. This is why I think a totally random dice role would be the best way to pick the action/massclaim order.

[PokerFace]

Well if he claims a character no one has

he will also have to claim an action we can all cofirm as have a distinct effect that does not belong to a recruiter.

People whose claim and actions can't both be confirmed will remain unconfirmed and potential cult recruiters. If he uses a safe claim he would have to have something confirmable soully with his safe character and since he is not really the safe character I don't think a false action can be even remotly confirmed.

Chenshi claimed a skill that was unconfirmable. The power to survive kills. If he were still alive his claim would be among those with potential to be a cult recruiter since his actions could not possibly be confirmed by anyone.

[PokerFace]

And give reasons why they think it is a bad idea.

Is it because you now suspect the cult is a red herring or is there more to it then that? If there is a way to prove it all fake, then claiming wouldn't be necessary but if it a 4 man cult is out there do you have a better idea to catch the cult recruiter?

[PokerFace]

I did not target Muerto or Elvis the last 2 nights. I did not roleblock Elvis.

Unless you get instant mod killed for just your role name you should be able to claim. I never seen a threat of modkillery for just a name.

I may have to take sometime to watch the holy grail over the weekend to brush up on my Lancelot knowledge. He was the only one to target muerto besides Strappado and the bridge keeper.

Can you elaborate on why you think the action he performed on you muerto was a scum action?

Enjoy your V/la farside. See you after the holiday weekend.

[PokerFace]

Considering he used simular words describing that view when SpyreX had the view, that would be funny.

I have heard of that penalty before and I have only seen it attached to a few roles. Didn't think we'd have anything like that here. Should the mass claim go through we can just count you as one of the unconfirmed possible cult recruiters or we can abondan the claiming idea all together should enough vote against the entire idea. I don't think you are the scumiest player off hand so I am unlikly to vote you simply because you can't claim.

Asside from your suspicion Cult is red herring and what went on with your role and whatever you really are, Have you got any other concerns against the mass claiming?

[PokerFace]

Ok I'm going to simplify things best i can.

If a 4 person cult exists (1 recruiter with 3 recruits)

And we lynch a townie or a mafioso

then its 4 cult and 6 other going into night
If cult successfully recruits someone and is not nightkilled then we have 5 cult 4 scum or town. Game over cult wins it cult gets nked its 3 to 6 which will make things back ok where we started in terms of proportions 4 to 7 >> 3 to 6

OR...

If we lynch a cult recruit

its 3 cult and 7 town or scum going into night
if cult successfully recruits its 4 to 6
if cult is then nked its 3 to 6.
which will make things back ok where we started in terms of proportions
4 to 7 >> 3 to 6
And if townie is nked its 4 to 5. That be sucking bad!

BUT...

If we lynch a cult recruiter

its 3 recruits and 7 other going into night.
Cult can no longer sucessfully recruit
nk hits cult then its 2 to 7 otherwise its 3 to 6 but they can't recruit again ever.

Lynching the recruiter today would be our best chance of effectivly avoiding lylo should a cult exist. if we don't lynch a recruit or the recruiter the cult will win if they aren't nightkilled. So

@Gurgi...

This is Lylo!

We have to decide if they are a red herring or not today because if they are around, not lynching cult with or without mass claim is potentially game over.

@Azimuth,

you are correct that mafioso's can have extra actions. Darla was a role attractor and scum after all.

BUT cultrecruiters always have only 2 possible actions recruit or kill. Cult recruiters can't role block or any confirmable crap like that anywhere in my cult experience and I have never read a game where a cult could do more than recruit or kill. This plan will not out the mafia or recruits. It is designed to get the main cult guy only.

If the recruits can't talk with and don't know the identity of their recruiter, then an un-recruiter would not potentially break the entire setup. It is possible cult can know its members and leader all around but i don't think its likly. If recruits and leader can talk and know each others real names then any preset or picked claim order could be bent to their advantage. This is why I suggest a completly random order determined by dice be used.

From my view point I can confirm 5 people as having actions that can't belong to cult recruiters.
1) Strappado
2) Whoever is The machine that goes Bing
3) Whoever is The Bridgekeeper
4) Whoever is The other role that hit me night 1
5) K7
6) If you guys want to count me you can here. I don't like saying it myself since i can't clear myself only those I target can confirm me as not lying about what i can do.

11 people alive total. We can verify 5+ that aren't recruiter.

These 5 people including myself can still be mafia or recruits

, but they can not be the recruiter based on their true character actions being known. Cult recruiters can't watch, track, go bing (or whatever), bridge keep, or do the other thing that hit me night 1. Cult recruiters can only kill or recruit. Since the six above don't kill or recruit then they aren't the recruiter. They can still be scum or recruit but recruiter is not possible.

@Strappado,

nope this is not cheating. Scum usually have safe claims to stop this sort of thing and avoid it from destroying the entire group. Chenshi had a safe claim of the Black Knight or he just got lucky guessing something no one counterclaimed. The action Chenshi claimed was kill protection. That skill is 100% percent unconfirmable. So if chenshi was alive he would be suspect for potential cult recruiter.

@Azimuth again,

This claim procedure is not designed to find a role that fits a character who we think could be a recruiter. The character description don't determine who is cult automatically. A good guy can have a bad guy role and a bad character can have a good guy role. I have seen things flopped like that before. I would not have pegged Bruce as the Cop either, so we will not be lynching a guy because his character makes sence as a cult recruiter. We will be narrowing down those with un-confirmable actions and overall scummy play and lynching them since they are scummy and have potential for being the recruiter.

The cons of the massclaim

is if there is no cult (they are a red herring) I would estimate a scum group of at least 2 maybe 3 remaining based on usual 18 player game balance. It is common knowledge that a too early massclaim can give the scum group a road map of which role is best to night kill when. This is our main con and we would also be telling mafia what we all do so that they could know how to exploit things there too. Massclaims are always high risk high reward based on how the town plays things.

If we lynch the recruiter today we will be back in business away from lylo. And ironically if scum use what knowledge they gained to kill a cultist then things will be more against the cult. If cult exists and they ain't killed or lynched. We are all fucked!

If someone has a better idea to find the cult then massclaiming they are more than welcome to come forward with it. If Elvis has some role that will reveal a better way, it is solely up to her if she wants to claim now and give this other idea.

Massclaim is just the best idea i can think of at the moment and if a better one with far less risk can be thought up then we should use that idea.

I believe I've put out all facts in terms of what we can gain and loose with and without a massclaim. I feel it will increase our potential for lynching cult.

If anyone feels I missed some big obv con then speak now. We need to decide today...

1) If cult exists
2) What is best way to find recruiter.
3) is Massclaim best and only way

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Massclaim(3): PokerFace, Farside, Strappado

No Massclaim(2): Muerto, Azimuth

???(2): Gurgi, Elvis

Not voting (Everybody else)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

[PokerFace]

Elaborating further...

@Strappado,

nope this is not cheating. Scum usually have safe claims to stop this sort of thing and avoid it from destroying the entire group. Chenshi had a safe claim of the Black Knight or he just got lucky guessing something no one counterclaimed. The action Chenshi claimed was kill protection. That skill is 100% percent unconfirmable. So if chenshi was alive he would be suspect for potential cult recruiter.

If cult recruiter has a safe claim which is in esence a fake claim no one has, he will unlikly be able to give a confirmable actions with said role that would work in line with recruiting procedures since the safe/fake claim would not be real. Safe/fake claim would have fake and non real action that would be unconfirmable. A mafia role blocker would have a confirmable real action but a cult recruit really wouldn't unless they could make a good lie and have his recruits vouch for him. This would out his rcruits if any of them fugged up the claim. And I think the best way not to give recruits that know their recruiter the chance to vouch for their recruiter would be 100% random claiming order.

[PokerFace]

hmm... It would appear you are a Hunter Variant Role then.
An extremely rare role I only see once before.

Regular Hunter Roles are lynchers that also have the power to vig. If their "prey" is killed by them or lynched their win condition is fufilled.

@Elvis,

if your prey (Farside supposedly) dies and then later you die, do you still win overall despite whether town, cult, or mafia wins at the end?

ANYWAY... My night actions -- I killed luigi gangsta N1... I thought he was scummy. I was voting him D1, and farside even was suspicious about me putting the kill through. She was right. I killed him.
I tried to kill Chenhsi N2, but that didn't work since I was targetted by Spyrex. I tried to kill Muerrto last night, and obviously that didn't work.

SOOOO... I think I was roleblocked N2 in addition to Spyrex targetting me, since Spyrex didn't die. I *think* he should have died otherwise (maybe PF can confirm this as he seems to grasp the role well).

I also think I was roleblocked last night since Muerrto didn't die. Unless the fact that Strappado says she saw me actually visit Muerrto means I was not blocked (anyone know how the results would change for strappado if I was blocked or not? Would se see me at all if I was blocked?). If I was not blocked last night, that means Muerrto is NK immune. I guess that could be a few different things. The ones I have thought of are bulletproof town of some sort, or GF with NK immunity, or cult recruiter with NK immunity.

Its always a mod preference as to wether a watcher/tracker sees someone who is blocked. In my book of modding the tracker/watcher does see them. In Battle Mages book of modding, according to late ruling he gave Kison (a watcher in elemental Mafia) They would not see someone who was blocked.

This issue is truly up to the mod, and I have doubts on him being able to tell us or not. Strappado would have to ask Shaft.ed if she can see people that were blocked. If Shaft.ed can't tell her (Which is possible) then I hesitate on playing "outguess the mod" and relying on that alone.

Please answer the question I have left above for you Elvis. I'll think more on this matter later.

@The internet,

For the time being i will postpone judgement on you claiming first. I still think random order is best and hence would be spectical of those who claim out of order or try to "slopily" vouch for others. When I slept on the game last night, I considered the possibility Elvis was cult and could be trying to organize claims by claiming pre-massclaim. Not sure what to think about her exactly now. I may change my mind later on you going first with the massclaim but for now I still think random is best idea.

[PokerFace]

Yes I suppose pausing it for now would be best. I suppose people could vote for or against it still but definatly no one else should claim for now. I myself may have to change my vote when this entire thing is sorted out.

@Elvis,

question 2 (two parts to this question)
If Farside never dies can you still win?
If so can said win be only with the town or can it be with anyone who wins it all in general?

[PokerFace]

oops got simul posted there. And yes I did just read your last post immedatly before this one.

@Elvis,

question 3
If Farside does not die and is instead endgamed by the scum, do you win?

I suspect that if SpyreX knew he was a role attractor he would not have reffered to himself as a limited lightning rod. So your pm not mentioning Hunter anywhere is not a problem. Lord knows how Shaft.ed truly refers to your type of role he might not call it Hunter. That is only what I myself have seen a very simular role called once before.

[PokerFace]

<<Posting from neighbors computer.

My computer's hard drive is a piece of shit right now. Gonna try to fix it. V/la until further notice. I should still be able to post at work, but I'm off there until tuesday with labor day weekend. Will get back up to speed on things as soon as I can. later

[PokerFace]

Hey all. Just letting you know I got my computer working at home again. will catch up and posts thoughts as soon as possible

[PokerFace]

Sorry about that. Been real busy as of late. There are quite a few aspects about Elvis's role that don't match up with the hunter role I seen before. I don't see too many of them as any great problem. They are wierd but nothing big in my book. In general I get the impression that if what she claims is true about her role, that Shaft.ed made it all up off the top of his head, without influence of him ever seeing the hunter role I have seen. Which wouldn't surprise as I am fairly certain Shaft.ed made up some aspects of my role from scratch. I never seen anything like my role before. More on all this involving Elvis's role when I get more time later. I'm at work right now. Heres that count:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Massclaim(6): PokerFace, Farside, Strappado, Ninja, Internet, Imaginality,

No Massclaim(2): Muerto, Azimuth

Indifferent(1): Gurgi "I'll go with it if rest of town does"

Not voting (2): Elvis, K7

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I am also wondering if the mass claim will be necessary or if its better to take someone suspicious, Vote them, have them claim then before lynching and then proceed to analyze their claim and then decide if they are the best lynch. Maybe have the most scummy claim first ain't a bad idea should we find them cult and not need other claims. It would keep more things secret. Basically I'm estimating which one is quicker and better further. I looked back at a couple of things and I haven't really seen anyone deeply defending another person. Either the recruits know the recruiter and the cult recruiter has been recieving no flak this game; he hasn't needed help or corroboration to defend himself. Or I more rationally see a cult that doesn't know its leader or one that doesn't exist at all.

In terms of speed finding things and narrowing them down, I think massclaim still wins out and a good idea, but if there is no recruiter then I worry we will be giving away to much to the mafia. If we can find the recruiter through basic scumhunting and voting to lynch without massclaim, that would be best. I'll make a big post on all these matters and who I think is scummy later on. Even though we got a majority vote for massclaim, I'd still like to hear the bad or devil's advocate version of our actions from it's protesters so that we all understand and know what risks we are taking before any claiming begins.

[PokerFace]

another concern of mine is generally considering who has claimed and those others who have acted scummy has given me the impression things may already be narrowed down enough. It basically depends on what type of cult exists (minnions know leader or not) and how likly the recruiter has acted scummy this game in accordance with how and if recruits would know and need to defend them.

I hope that makes sence to someone. Alot of people being open about their roles allready vs the efectivness of our general game play so far. I wonder how many believe there is a strong cult vs there being a weak one (by type and members) vs there being none at all.

Do we need to expose all aspect (role action and player) of the bridgekeeper, the machine that goes bing, the other thing that hit me night one OR do we just need to understand they ain't a recruiter.

You guys think I should mention the other unique skill that hit me night 1?

[PokerFace]

@TSPN, Actually Ninja...

The following have claimed or partly claimed

Killa Seven
Strappado
PokerFace
Farside - Some Wedding party member
Lord Gurgi - Obviously albatross seller is his claim
Elvis - "The mother has elephant ankles" in no way references Lancelot

Unclaimed

Vote count of these is 3 to 2
Ninja
Azimuth
Internet
Imagordan
Muerto - Unclaimable role that somehow knew someone like Elvis targeted him

_______________________

Those with "Confirmable" actions not belonging to a recruiter

Other Unique night 1 guy that targeted me**
Machine that goes Bing!**
Bridge Keeper**
Strappado
Killa Seven
PokerFace

Those with unconfirmed or yet to be confirmed actions

Muerto
Ninja
Imagordan
Azimuth
Internet
Lord Gurgi
Farside
Elvis

@Everyone,

Can anyone other than Elvis explain the death of luigi?
I may add Elvis to the confirmed actions list bearing this and one other thing I am pondering.

It should also be noted that since I have been doing alot of looking at previous days I haven't had a great amount of time to look at posts 1440 - 1444 . I will cover stuff in those posts and who I find scummy over the weekend.

@Killa Seven,

you did read why and what not we are massclaiming in one of my previous posts right?

[PokerFace]

1) Muerto was first to bring up sight of seeing little coloboration among players. I looked back and noticed not many incidents of players defending other alive players, so I'm wondering if he actually had something there.

2)

In case anyone thinks I'm saying this because I'm a cult recruiter leery of a mass claim, I will prove I am not, by saying this: I'm the person who targeted PokerFace night 1.

Pokerface, the following word should be enough to confirm that I know what you're thinking of: long. Hopefully that's enough for you to know what I'm alluding to.

fdsgds?

The word "long" ain't ringing a bell with what I am actually refering too. Perhaps I was hit by more than just K7 and this unique other skill.

When I say unique other skill, I say it because there is only 1 python character that could have possibly caused this other effect on me. I also refer to it as a unique skill because I was told it hit me. In normal games if you are investigated or doc protected, there is no way for you to know this. The skill I was hit with actually had a "noticeable effect" on me. kinda like how K7 gave me the power to track strappado for 1 night. That was a noticable effect. I

do not

naturally know

everything

that's hits me as a product of my character. If some cop investigated me at one point then I would not know about it.

Can you say another word without giving much away? I am beginging to wonder exactly how much stuff I was hit with night 1.

[PokerFace]

OK then, This post be long says I. Go to the bathroom and then get comfortable. You may be reading this for awhile.

Elvis & Farside- Notes**

She isn't the same "hunter" role I seen once before, but I only seen that role once before anyways so who knows what the usual is for the role. Farside claims a skill that "What doesn't kill her makes her stonger". Last Prey roles I saw only had knowledge they are being hunted so, them both being different makes sence. And from that saying, I think I can guess what role type Farside has to go along with her prey status.

I don't think Elvis is cult recruiter fake claiming for the following reasons.

1) No one but her has explained Luigi's Death

If someone else can then they should otherwise Elvis obv made the kill Cult recruiter's can sometimes kill but usually don't.

2) As long as no one counters with other info, we know all her actions to be true.

No one else can explained how luigi died. SpyreX was town and towns don't lie, he drew Elvis and he was not shown as cult when he died, yet Elvis does claimed to have been blocked. Muerto and Strappado confirmed Elvis targeting Muerto. If elvis was cult her only recruit could be Muerto. BUT Farside says she is the counter part of the hunter role. Can't have hunter without prey or vice versa. Farside can't be a recruit of Elvis since all of Elvis's actions are accounted for.

So I think I can add Elvis to unlikly recruiter list. I can't deduce if I can move farside there yet until she claims further and I don't know if she should. Elvis may more easily be able to kill her, if farside claims her skill out right. Yet at this point, it is possible Farside is the recruiter and Elvis is a Recruit who realized Farside recruited her because of what Farside has been saying outloud and hinting at. I don't think its a great threat or possibility since I ain't found Farside scummy or likly cult, but regardless I will count her among potential cult recruiters for now just in case she really did recruit Elvis.

@Farside,

do you auto loose if Elvis kills you?
If not then I got no problem leaving Elvis alive.

@Elvis,

I don't like directing actions unless there is some necessity. If there is a 4 man strong cult and we lynch wrong, they will win if they recruit right. If they recruit right, The game will stop, and you won't get the chance to kill farside and win too. I call that necessity on both sides. You scratch my back Elvis and I'll scratch yours. But that doesn't mean I should pick the target. Elvis for these reasons I think you should use your own judgement to kill the person you think is most likly to be cult tonight. Farside can only be cult if she recruited you, so you shouldn't be able to kill her or maybe even at all if thats the case.

By killing Cult Elvis, the Cult won't win and you still got chance to hit farside later. Kill whoever you think is most likly cult during the night Elvis. That would be best for everyone. If there is a 4 man strong cult and you kill no one, I already explained how that makes the town loose. If there is a 4 man strong cult, and you kill mafia or town we still loose. The kill itself won't make us loose, it will keep us from loosing if you hit cult only. It won't be the final blow if you hit a non-cult. So I suggest

you kill only who "you" think is most likly cult.

Choose for yourself who you think is likly cult and kill them should we fail to lynch cult today.

Because Elvis is not a member of the town and can kill, I highly doubt she can be recruited into a cult since she wins with anyone not as just one. Speaking of how she wins I guess I'll play my last card.

Elvis is NOT, the only player who can win with anybody

I crumbed it a little poorly here...

Cigarettes don't kill me, but they do make me stronger. Now I don't turn into an SK, I am 100% certain I don't do that. In fact if my new theory (thx Elvis & Internet) is correct, giving cigarettes to me 'can' actually help the town, the scum, the cult, everybody 'can' be helped if my theory is correct. But since I believe I can choose who would recieve the benefit from my skill, the town will recieve the benefit. They all 'can' benefit, BUT since I am the one using the skill, only those I choose to benefit, will. At least this is what I think for now. I'll explain once I test my skill one more time. I could be off big time and i could be right on the money. Shaft.ed had fun with my role and if I'm right this game just got sillyer. !My Brain hurts too!

I win with the town. if town wins then I win, BUT if I get my cigs and book of matches, I personally can't loose the game. That's right, if I complete my search, the final outcome of this game does not matter to me because I can't loose.
The town can still win or loose, the mafia can still win or loose, the cult can still win or loose, elvis can still win or loose, BUT I won't be able to loose. I'll gladly still help the town for extra credit and incase I can some how smoke away or loose my cigs, but should I fail to help the town while I got what I want then pfft it don't effect me.

That was why I asked elvis those questions earlier. Its wierd she can not basically win with the town. She must kill Farside before that can happen. This is different then what I got. I can win with the town without completing my search. Or I can complete my search and get a golden ticket to victory with anyone no matter what.

I don't know if Elvis being different than me in that respect makes her a liar and or scum. Haven't decided on that. If she cooperates, she is fine by me for now.

Internet & K7 - Notes**

I am a little undecided on the internet myself.

@The Internet,

Seeing whats happened so far, I think it is adviseable to lynch chenshi today. However, he is at L-1, and though he is the best candidate for lynching, I feel that he has not dropped any major scumtells and not that many monor ones, so I'm not comfortable hammering him.

So you think he should be lynched, but you don't want to be on the wagon?

I usually see posts like this when a scumo is trying to stay off a wagon he knows as town. This way he can encouraged townies to lynch other townies without looking bad for dropping the hammer of being on the wagon. Chenshi flipping scum kinda hurts this view unless the internet is a part of a different scum group.
Anyone want to comment on my view here?

Albatross!

PF: Could be reluctance to bus. I prefer Azimuth lynch.

Albatross!

Perhaps I am wrong and Gurgi is right. Or the general view of his play towards chenshi being overall Wishwashy could be the right answer. There were some people defending Chenshi yesterday, I kinda was with saying lurking don't make him scum. Perhaps Internet was throwing his cards in with the defenders hoping another wagon would rise and cause a lynch instead of chenshi getting lynched.

I agree with what you have said PF, and I'll give the rest some time to discuss quickly. If I don't get a darned good reason not to vote Gurgi soon, I will vote for him.

I see K7 and chenhsi as being one in the same, they've both done scummy things and post no more than one liners and avoid answering questions directly and are totally lurk-a-licious.

chenhsi with his insincere post regarding the NK and K7 with his "what did strappado do last night PF" - If PF had thought it would be useful to town, PF would have said so - K7 not only said something that would make himself have to claim, but Poker and I also pretty much had to claim after that. I guess that's why that role could be beneficial to town, forcing claims and outing people.

Still comfortable with my vote on chenhsi though.

I'm more suspicious of K7 than chenshi, because K7 could have been scum that lied to get IM lynched, while chenshi hasn't done much of anything (though he is looking scummy recently).

Alright I'm back, and here's my scum list
Muerrto (oddly selective scumhunting patterns, keeps trying to dodge questions with semantics)
TheSweatpantsNinja (Wishy washy votes which appear to attempt to start or join bandwagons)
chenshi(what else? lurking and contradictions)

Of those, I think Chenshi is the least scummy,but still must be considered. I also would not discount Chenshi being mafia, because he be not listening or being bussed. Before you leap at me for not listing K7, I was unclear about he did N1, but It has been clarified for me. Also, to those listing me on their list, have you read my posts in my defense? Also, to PF specifically, what do you mean by the softclaim?

I was the only one wanting to lynch Gurgi and slightly against a chenshi lynch. There were a few after K7 and against a chenshi lynch.

I still firmly believe K7 is town. Him lurking does not make him scum. He lurks in alot of his games.

Chenshi was lurking like hell and always does. Yet he still managed to make scum tells.

Oh no... Mirth died...

Lucky its only 1 death...

I think that there is nothing wrong on commenting on night kills...

Classic newb scum tell there. Try to sound innocent and sympathic about something you caused. Show me where K7 made a more valid scum tell than lurking, and only then will I say any suspicions of K7 are warranted. Ironman did not look like a grave threat to the scum. I can't see any scumo willing to put themself in danger of suspicions and lynchings just to get ironman lynched. ironman just probably didn't get his action in before. Whispering tracker is not a well know role. K7 probably didn't know the ediquete with it when he asked me to come out on what strappado did. So I see that as only a minor incident. You guys will have to show me something more concrete before I even begin to suspect K7.

Back to the Internet,

Chiming in here, no I did not get visited by a bridgekeeper. Luigi Gangsta's death suprised me, the scum could have easily used his day 1 actions to build a wagon on him on day 2. It's possible he got vigged. The fact that he was a cult unrecruiter means that we probably need to be wary of cults. Iron Man's behavior worries me, but I'll wait for his reply.

I once pondered if this was him crumbing he was a vig and had killed Luigi. Trying to sound innocent about something you knew or involved in. But since Elvis claimed the kill, that isn't the case. So I got to wonder if he actually "knew" Luigi's death wasn't caused by the mafia back then and trid to sound innocent about something he knew or were involved in, while subtly vig fishing. I think I can see internet as mafia with how he handled chenshi and everyone else yesterday, especially if he was vig fishing.

Azimuth - Notes**

Just wanted to say that I'm definitely not lurking; I just took a day off, and it has taken me much of today trying to catch up. You will find that I enjoy taking a day off now and then, but whew! Who knew there'd be a posting avalanche the same day?

Unvote

first, because Luigi has explained himself adequately for now.

Regarding our purported French Taunters: if one is lying and one is not, I suppose I am more inclined to believe SpyreX because his explanation of his role seems more complete, plus the constant breadcrumbing followed by an unsolicited role/PR reveal on the part of DarlaBlueEyes seems a little too contrived. Why bother to reveal that much at all? Certainly there was not much suspicion of DBE before.

I suppose it is possible that all of this was staged, and they are both mafia, using this as a way to distance one from the other. In that case DBE would still make a good lynch choice, though for now I don't want to put her at L-2 in case there is disagreement from others.

If, however, neither of them are mafia, and our moderator has simply given them the same role in a fit of mischief, it might be appropriate to say, "You bastardmod! You vicious, heartless bastardmod! Look what you've done to them!" I would never say something like that, though...

I don't like what chenhsi is doing either. I could easily place a vote for him if he doesn't start doing something constructive. Probably goes for killa seven too, though he is newer.

Also, JordanA24 has seemed to "Run awayyyy!" from this game; I would think he's been at least prodded by now?

Meanwhile, I will have much work to do elsewhere for six days beginning Monday; I may still be able to post minimally, but no long essays from me. Since this game is large, I will try extra hard to keep up with reading it so that I won't take all of next weekend catching up.

Checking in quickly (on a break):

I am not in favor of forcing a modkill or anything along that line.

I am not interested in telling SpyreX how to do a night action or learning more about it at this time.

Why would i fake claim on day one with 2 votes on me?

Why claim at all, fake or otherwise? Your argument seems to be that it doesn't make sense if you are mafia, but it doesn't make sense if you are town either. You don't seem to be addressing questions posed to you and have taken a defeatist attitude; if you actually are town then you are doing us a disservice.

I may not like some of Iron Man and Luigi's actions and (chenhsi and killa seven's lack thereof), but it is getting difficult to keep my vote off DBE, whether IM ever shows up to explain himself or not.

Back to work; will continue reading and may post again if needed, but not much.

He did express some dislike of Darla in this post and others though did not vote her. I can understand he wanted to wait on ironman but it is borderline wishywashy when he says so much against here yet doesn't take a more direct action. Bruce later voted Darla firmly puting her at L-2 Not L-1 when he made comments against Darla a long while before K7 hammered. Azimuth prolonging voting her when she was L-3 pre L-2 and not L-1 that far ahead of time, comes off wrong to me. Azimuth was also among those who considered both DBE and SpyreX as both being scum ahead of time. And he very lightly touched on them both being taunters. Scum would know Darla was a taunter and would assume SpyreX was not a liar since they would already know SpyreX was town.

Azimuth was highly pro replace chenshi over let's lynch chenshi. He voted and tried to support any wagon yesterday over voting chenshi. I can't recall him saying Chenshi was scummy yesterday or him dwelling on ironman intensly on day 2. He dwelled on ironman day 1 but not so much on day 2? Did you not want to be on ironman's lynch after your comments toward ironman on day1? That don't sync up. He only repeated what everyone else said applying to Ironman but didn't include much of his own input at all on day 2.

Just chiming in to say that I was quite close to placing a vote on Iron Man too, mainly because his ability doesn't seem to be pro-town (but also for the other reasons -- lurking, possible contradiction, etc.). With the recent flurry of votes I will hold off for now to give him one last chance to respond, but even I will not wait an eternity.

Also

1. We lost the cop?

Ouch.

And there's probably a cult?

Double ouch

.

We already know why such comments are scummy.
<<<Points at Chenshi's corpse
This comment and how he hinted at cult going at Elvis for recruitment Make me think Azimuth has potential for being cult or scum who just want a role like elvis's elimnated.

I have the option of killing every night. It is not required.

In that case, if I were you I would not try to kill anyone else, if it doesn't fit the win condition. I would even be suspicious of anyone who tried to get you to kill someone as a "vig"; you have no real reason to trust most of us, I imagine.

I suppose I can't expect you not to try to kill farside22, although since she revealed herself yesterday I wonder why you didn't try to kill her last night instead of Muerrto.

Another troubling thought: someone with your capabilities would be quite attractive to a cult recruiter, assuming you haven't been recruited already.

I hesitate to lay these next cards on the table, but here goes: since I agree that at least trying to lynch the cult recruiter is "the thing to do" for today, with lynching any cult member as an acceptable alternative for me, I would focus on farside22 and Lord Gurgi, who have been acting overly chummy since at least Day 2. With LG going after people for talking about the cult, making superficial attacks while hiding behind a restriction, and even accusing Muerrto of being the recruiter out of the blue, I get the notion that any of several lynches would be okay for him, which is consistent with that of a cult member. With farside22 as the other possibility, EK's claim presents problems. I guess it depends on whether we care whether EK wins, and also whether we really trust her motives behind not wanting farside to be lynched. Still, LG's superficial aggressiveness make him more likely than farside to be a recruiter (though it could be someone else).

Azimuth's recent comments toward possibly farside being a recruiter are waranted but they don't show or explain her ever being scummy. His comments toward Gurgi

Basically I think Azimuth is leaving the line of scum hunting and crossing into ad hominem with respect to Gurgi. He should find something actually scummy Gurgi did and talk about that. Not saying Gurgi is ignoring his defence, since I wouldn't say Azimuth has addressed the case on him. Azimuth more so address the person presenting the case on him with poor reasoning which is the esence of ad hominem. Azimuth should show reason to believe Gurgi's restriction is fake like I did. Just don't say "Oh he's hiding behind a restriction". Didn't Azimuth show quite a varying tone earlier with respect to lynching or not lynching those acting silly and those that mentioned roles? I can quote alot of places where he did that if I need too.

Let me correct your other statements as well: in that post I was expressing disapproval of role

revealers

, not fishers. I was initially curious of Iron Man's character (not role),

but I stopped once I realized what I was doing

. It was more trivial pursuit than role fishing, and I wasn't the only one. That's not "I disagree"; that's a refutation. If you don't believe me, you can at least say that, but just repeating the weak argument with nothing else, completely ignoring previous explanations and even describing my initial actions incorrectly, is suspicoius to me,

especially since I know I'm town

.

Where did you stop going after Ironman on day1? Show me where because I don't believe you ever did. And the statement "especially since I know I'm town", is full on OMGUS. "Oh God I know I'm town and you are attacking me. You suck and must be scum!"

*Wiki definitions for those unfamilar with some stuff I said*
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... the_Person
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Omgus
If you mention you vote being called OMGUS in random stage or outside of it, that does not diminish what it is.

So yay I am highly suspicious of Azimuth being cult or mafia for his treatement of DBE, ironman, and Chenshi primarily on the days they were lynched and also how he reacted to Elvis.

Muerto Notes**

Muerto Firmly voted and expressed how he did not like Darla or Chenshi. For those reasons I don't see him as Mafia. However he had a slight change of heart with respect to seeing a cult and then calling it a red herring. I am not set on calling him a recruiter flat out, but I do see reasons to associat him with being a part of a cult today. I don't think he is mafia because he was firm unlike internet and Azimuth, but I lightly suspect he may be cult so I'd say he be last on suspicion list. I won't vote to lynch him today. Azimuth said worse things about a cult but I will be keeping an eye on him.

He has not acted scummy outside of his cult views so last on the list big time if on the list at all.

And I don't see comments about Muerto like this as being oportunistic because Muerto does not have a wagon right now. Oportunitic in esence of taking advantage of a good opportunity. I see no wagon or opportunity here, Azimuth so Gurgi wasn't taking advantage of anything since he was pretty much first to get on Muerto's case for this actions or any other actions Muerto did.

ImagordanA24 Notes**

Can you say anything further? I have no reason to suspect you as being scum or cult at this time. Jordan is a buddy on mine via mafiascum and its mafia and mishmash games I have played with him. The skill is by no means a harmful skill so I wouldn't be surprised at all if a town Jordan was its original source. But I won't confirm you til I'm certain you are the one i am talking about. Please

come at me with something

further.

_________________

OK I am all caught up now. Sorry for giant as hell posting, I hope no one needs eye surgery because of me now.

Suspicion list.
1) Azimuth
2) Internet
...
Giant gap the size of the Grand Canyon maybe bigger
...
3) Muerto

@Shaft.ed, can we get a vote count.

I am going to vote Azimuth imediatly after getting the vote count pending how many votes away he is to and from a lynch.

Fos Azimuth

[PokerFace]

Fingers point in all directions. You're not really paranoid It's the Mind

Hey didn't you post that video before?

@Farside,

Something just pegged me. I figured out your code here:

Elvis states she is looking to kill the wedding party. I stated I am avoiding Sir Lawcelot which is her role. Since you decide to bury yourself and not actually read the game let me enlighten you by showing where I breadcrumb my role.

Here is a bit right before Iron Man was lynched:

I'm torn by many things. However i don't think it will matter. Iron man has not helped this game. Don't get me wrong. Even i have had days of being off and on in some game. Will holding up and talking more help this game. I don't see how. Today was more informative for scum then anyone i think. Holding back and waiting for one player is very fustrating. Eventually we need to move this game along and some slackers have hurt this game. i Love this game too much to let slackers hurt this game. Iron man has run and come and is not making any sense. Various roles have i'm sure confused most people. I don't think that iron man needs any more chances to keep us guessing. So with everything that has been discussed and my own suspicious.

vote: iron man

If you look at everything I capitalized you see a hidden message.
I hate to spell it out, but seriously if anyone listens to this guy you are nuts.

And I remembered me and you having a conversation about this earlier.

I can't force feed everything to you. There be tons of crazy ways to bread crumb things, you would just have to use your imagination and hope we'd be able to figure it out after your death. That's what hiders and weak docs do.

I'm curious to know why you mention roles like the above rather then cop or doc or normal roles that typically bread crumb.

Simple answer. Docs and cops can breadcrumb after and typically do it after since there skills alone won't kill them.

If a hider hides with scum or a weak doc protects scum they are dead usually and therefore can't really breadcrumb after. If spyre drew a kill to him, he would be dead.

A player can choose how to breadcrumb assuming they want to. Telling some one the exact code to use out loud would be bad. I suppose he can choose not to breadcrumb at all if he wants to aswell so with that I'll drop that issue.

That makes no sense, but I'm leaving it alone because I don't think it means anything. I just thought it was a strange comment to make.

Something is not syncing up here. Is this your first game with it and you were just round about refering to other things? Or were you just trying to be inocent about it all?

Is it your only skill? Am i correct in assuming you can't be utilized in an investigated manor in this game, You won't die if you target scum? Is that why you truly did not understand me since there is a type that dies with scum and those that don't?

Considering what it is I think you do, you should be able to answer these questions without fear. Something ain't syncing up if what I think is true is. If you feel I am over stepping my bounds, I may back down. Though if you are claiming what I think you are, then you can't be confirmed as non-recruiter should mass claiming fully occur over just having the scumiest speak up. I haven't found you scummy at all, so I am not trying to accuse you of being one here, but the thought still crossed my mind with respect to how Elvis claimed.

Muerto's view change made me ponder if he was a recruit, but he couldn't have changed over "last night" pending Strappado seeing only the bridge keeper and Lancelot. So I guess Muerto's recent actions just seem off consideringing his play day 3. I'll keep an eye on him nonetheless, but I am certainly not pro let's get rid of muerto today, tonight, or probably even tomorrow.

I see Azimuth as being cult or mafia. I see internet as being cult or mafia and I lean on mafia since he ain't touched on cult much at all. I see Muerto only cult and highly unlikly Mafia with how he acted towards Chenshi and Darla. You don't bus like that. Muerto has a siginifcantly less chance of being an anti-town faction then the other too. Especially since I can't really mention greatly scummy actions he has done either.

Also

Fingers point in all directions. You're not really paranoid It's the Mind

Hey didn't you post that...

[PokerFace]

Well not all of them do die for targeting scum. That part of the role is ambigious on setup. I don't know what faction you should put Elvis in. I guess it would be SK though she ain't hunting the entire town. As far as why you lived it could have been because Elvis was blocked or maybe you were too.

@Farside,

If you were suspicious of Elvis, and you had the potential for death by hiding with you "Hunter" and not with usual scum, then why the heck would you hide with someone you were suspicious of? Sounds like a simple way to shoot yourself in your own foot.

@Internet,

That accusation is more of a possibility than a definate. But you got to look at the fact, you didn't consider SK. You considered only Vig or a pro-town player making the kill of luigi. I often see that as a sign you knew the other kill was scum or mafia generated. Bruce was killed by the spainish inquistion. That was definate, but did anyone know the Spainish Inquisition was mafia? I considered them possibly being an Mafia, SK, or vig if I recall. To be more precise though, were you expecting some specific responce when you brought up suspicions of a vig targeting luigi?

[PokerFace]

I am a little surprised at Muerto too.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Massclaim(6): PokerFace, Farside, Strappado, Ninja, Internet, Imaginality, Elvis, K7

No Massclaim(1?+): Azimuth

Indifferent(1?-): Gurgi, Muerto*

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll change that pending what muerto makes his final choice.

Those with "Confirmable" actions not belonging to a recruiter

Other Unique night 1 guy that targeted me**
Machine that goes Bing!**
Bridge Keeper**
Strappado
Killa Seven
PokerFace
Elvis

Those with unconfirmed or yet to be confirmed actions

Muerto
Ninja
Imagordan
Azimuth
Internet
Lord Gurgi
Farside

We can either have people claim based on scumiest to least scumiest, or we can do it by dice rolling. Or we can just have whoever we are lynching claim and let the rest go till later. You guys can post and say which you think is best. I think I still support dice role if massclaiming is done all the way. Otherwise we can have Azimuth claim tonight and go from there pending what Muerto says. I don't think Muerto needs to claim imediatly or first since there is no wagon on him.

@Internet,

in theme games, no kill is typical of any group alignment. How is "poked with a cushion" more typical of a mafia kill than just the phrase slain? And I wouldn't call Bruce mod confirmed. The role may have been posted in Worst role ideas, but it was obviously changed since it was allowed to mess up 3 times and was also a cop.

@Farside,

When you put it like that, I guess your answer does make sence. Especially considering your earlier comments. You obviously didn't know she was hunting just you for the win. You thought she was an SK after all.

Since I forgot to do this earlier...

Vote: Azimuth

[PokerFace]

Shoulg list this too.

Those who have not yet

full

claimed

Azimuth
Farside
Gurgi
Imagordan - (Imaginality2 / Jordan)
Internet
Muerto
Ninja

[PokerFace]

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I had planned on checking you tonight regardless of circumstances with you somehow knowing who targets you. You loosing your skills also made me think you were tobacconist. Damn it! Why did you claim? I said you didn't have to. Hell if we had gotten to night all things would have been good and I would have confirmed you tomorrow as non-cult! You weren't being lynched today. I suppose I should not have played my hand like that with Elvis but still I guess i wanted feed back from others on whether our simular yet different conditions looked troublesome. I wanted to see if anyone had reasons to leap at Elvis for being Scum because of what I said. I should have gone with my original plan to fake claim what happens when I get the cigs.

But can you explain this from your second post?

I didn't get a post restriction and I don't have cigarettes either I feel so plain.

Also you were invincible in BM's Elemental game.

EBWOP: Oh, and I ran the town in elemental because I knew I was invincible after I had to claim so until I started pulling suspiscion I had no fear (untargetable at night townie). I usually lead the discussion in newbie games as well but here it's not the same case. I'm obviously not invincible(although it'd be nice) and the players here are a bit more seasoned so I'm content running with the pack rather than heading it up. But to say I'm falling behind the pack is false.

So that statement is crap too.

What would have happened to you if I had gotten my cigs and matches?

I know the answer to that last one and the other statements make me wonder if you are lying.

[PokerFace]

EBWOP:
What would have happened to you if I had gotten my cigs and matches?

I "Think" I know the answer to that last one, and the other statements make me wonder if you are lying.


I wanted to get more info on Elvis's potential for being scum with some feed back on our simularities. And you go and make yourself nilla? How does that make you win or make sence? If anything I suspect you more on being scum in general because of the aspects that don't add up. I know for a fact you are a great player. I read a bunch or your newbie games when i was just starting out on MS after I had started playing on IRC.

You doing this feels so out of character for a player like you. Is it just to spite me? Where is your sence of having fun? Did you think I would stop scum hunting and helping the town because I won? I said I would always help the town. I am having trouble imagining a good player like you doing this. You can shake off people suspecting you, can't you? you are Muerto damn it! You are a good player!

I am so frustrated right now. I had no knowledge you'd go vanilla for claiming or else I would have never brought up my search. I didn't even know that I would run out of chances to find the tobaconist, outside of one of us dieing. Alot of things don't add up. I'm going to take a break for awhile before I even look at your answers to all this stuff. This game and my role were so awesome. I never had this much fun in any mafia game before and now it feels like all my fun just got sucked away. I'll be back later.

[PokerFace]

I ain't mad at you Muerto if you really are the tobacconist. Part of me thinks you aren't for the reasons mentioned still so please answer them. Its just I was having such great fun.

I know you to be a good player. I started to play on IRC. And then I started to play on mafiascum. I learned alot early on by reading your old games. Some of what you said and the general level of play I suspect from a good player like you isn't adding up. I was really glad when you joined this game too.

Now I left believing I have lost all my fun. Or going with my gut on the chance you are scum trying to pass off a lie with the other junk you said. Part of me wanted the answer and the other didn't want the fun to stop. And last part of me thinks you are lying to me. And you trying to or succeeding in lieing would look more like the good player I would expect you to be if you were scum. I need a break from this game for awhile. I'll look at answers and what not later and make a final decision on if you are telling the truth or not..

Regardless I still respect you as a player Muerto. I just don't want to think about certain aspects of this entire mess right now.

[PokerFace]

I took a break to get a better perspective. Fall down, you got to get back up.

Not sold on Muerto being the tobacconist yet. I'll write up some questions for him tomorrow. I am wondering bigtime what will happen if I target him now. I got no clue. I may become a nieghbor with him (Unconfirmed masons = neighbor), I may recieve a response simular to the hungarian phrase "Yondala vasa gadenwee strovenka" which the tobacconist said in the clip when I didn't get the cigs, I could die or get arrested, or absolutly nothing could happen. I may even punch muerto and that would be interesting to see how a punch would translate to mafia. So I might check muerto tonight out of curiousity. That will at least give me a look at the randomness of my hungarian phrases. I've been saying pretty much the samething to everybody each night very little phrase difference; yet Elvis, Internet, and Imagordan all said I said WAY different things to them. Or I could pick someone at random since I have always posted with my target early in the day before they have posted. If I do die all we be loosing is comic relief really at this stage. So its a risk worth taking in my book since I could loose nothing and gain everything.

I knew I'd win before this so seeing what happens after this will be an interesting constilation prize. I got a couple of other Far fetched ideas to keep myself useful and helping Side from how limited i may or may not be. I was going to fight and win with the town anyway so I guess I didn't loose anything. If its all true, all I really lost was the chance to figure It all out tonight and the rush that job well done would have given me. I am still going to fight to win with the town regardless so its all good if its all true.

@Anyone,

want to comment on the simularities / differences that may exist between PF and Muerto as well as Elvis and Farside.

Also

@Everyone,

I am actually starting to wonder if cult is red herring at this stage. You guys still up for mass claiming or you just want to have Azimuth claim? He is at L-2.

I'll write up a list of questions for Muerto later on. Gonna question him considering some other problems I noticed and use that and some other info to decide if he is truthful or full of shit scum. I'll see you guys tomorrow since I probably be busy tonight after work. I thought Muerto was some strong recruit type and not the recruiter exactly. I wasn't going to push for Muerto lynch today. If he got to night without claiming things would be better. So I wonder if he is claiming to generally help the town or just to trick and or spite me. Why did he not want to wait til nightfall if he was unkillable? Does he remotly think there is a cult that would require a massclaim after all. Does Muerto want everybody to full claim now? Gonna test him on that later. Still want input from Azimuth and Imagordan on what I said about them. later guys.

[PokerFace]

Sorry, I've been away from the site. Looking quickly, I see that I am at L-2.

I have no particular problems claiming, though I doubt it will change the minds of the cul.... um, some of the people voting for me.

Yes continue to OMGUS. That's always a good idea. How about you make a case in perticular on why "each" person on you is cult. I'd love to see that. You were one to hope and consider it a red herring earlier when you voted against mass claim. Seeing your responce to our general acussations does interest me too.

The idea of God being in the setup perplexes me. How do you logically lynch God? What's the scene gonna be on that? I thinking its all a lie. Ironically if its just the character name that is the only true part, I "almost" want to lynch him on the chance he is God and cult recruiter. Brian (The Pythonesc "Son" of God) Unrecruiter would make sence with that.

I am still writing up those questions. And I do have plans after work today in general so that will indeed come tomorrow. I don't think people will quick hammer at this point and I am sure Muerto don't mind waiting for any more questions I think up.

[PokerFace]

Muerto post on the way, this is a Azimuth and other stuff about his lynching and related remarks post:

Ironically, the two people who were against a massclaim have now claimed, while everyone else has stayed silent. Do the rest of you intend to keep it going, or do you now think it would be hurtful to the town?

Yes continue to OMGUS. That's always a good idea.

Firstly, "OMGUS" is in the eye of the beholder. Anti-town players often use the OMGUS accusation against anyone who sees through their illogical arguments and therefore becomes suspicious of them. Secondly, in this particular game my suspicion of LG is hardly farfetched. When one person presents a weak argument, pushes it even after it's refuted, and at least two people just chime in with "I agree" with no additional argument of their own, cultlike behavior is a logical enough conclusion to draw, with a cult un-recruiter dead.

PF, I take issue with your "ad hominem" accusation. I've said nothing about Lord Gurgi as a person; I don't know LG as a person. I've talked about his arguments and his play in this game. Don't know why you would twist it so much.

I will note that several people have not answered the questions I've asked of them (not to mention questions that others have asked), even those that can be easily addressed with a post restriction. Perhaps they would rather ignore them and hope I get railroaded before anyone notices. But I will ask one of them again to those voting for me: do you think that I'm mafia or that I'm cult?

I will also ask LG and farside22, again: do you deny that you have been chummy? Can you otherwise explain why you were so sure of each other's innocence, so early in the game? I'm still waiting for LG to answer my questions to him in post 1412 as well.

I am not surprised that LG and farside22 claim not to believe me. It's a clever double-team they're pulling, with farside saying I should claim in 1489, then LG saying I was "overeager" in 1514. Obviously I am not expecting to convince them of anything. (BTW, the rest of you can check my past posts for God-related breadcrumbs if you care to.)

I am willing to answer other people's questions/concerns if they have them, but if it's just "I agree with LG's tells," with zero acknowledgment of the responses I've given so far, there's not much more I can address regarding myself.

1) I don't find Gurgi's comments to be weak. I find your response to them weak.
2) I did not only say i agree with Gurgi. I provided a rather large posts explaining your scumiest with some input totally my own which Gurgi did not say.
3) OMGUS basically means you are voting me so I am voting you. It can also be translated as you think I'm scum, so therefore you must be scum. OMGUS can be ocopanied by little or no reasoning othger than you don't like the fact you are being attacked.

I have no particular problems claiming, though

I doubt it will change the minds of the cul.... um, some of the people voting for me.

Yes continue to OMGUS. That's always a good idea. How about you make a case in perticular on why "each" person on you is cult. I'd love to see that. You were one to hope and consider it a red herring earlier when you voted against mass claim. Seeing your responce to our general acussations does interest me too.

I believe my point is more than well made.
4)Ad hominem does not always have to attack the character of the person. I see it as basically an attack on another person when you have no case great case on them. They merely have a case on you. There are differences between ad hominem and OMGUS in a sence that ad homienum usually does attack character more, but the issue always stems from the fact they are attacking you. Did you ever suspect Gurgi before be began voting you? Show me how he has been generally scummy by...

He should find something actually scummy Gurgi did and talk about that. Not saying Gurgi is ignoring his defence, since I wouldn't say Azimuth has addressed the case on him. Azimuth more so address the person presenting the case on him with poor reasoning which is the esence of ad hominem. Azimuth should show reason to believe Gurgi's restriction is fake like I did. Just don't say "Oh he's hiding behind a restriction". Didn't Azimuth show quite a varying tone earlier with respect to lynching or not lynching those acting silly and those that mentioned roles? I can quote alot of places where he did that if I need too.

Also I already said I think you can be cult and I think you can be scum. I don't think you are town and I am actually leaning towards cult because of your going back and forth on them at times as to whether they exist or not.

Also

Rule 1 of finding bread crumbs:

They are subjective. Always make the person that claims they exist, point them out. Someone else pointing them out can effectivly be helping a scum buddy. Or him asking you to find them, is him asking anyone to defend him. He wants you to destroy the arguments on him. He himself should be willing to defend and refute the arguements and point out his own bread crumbs. He tells you his role and expects you to find crumbs when you can not know the moments he chose to purposly leave the crumbs. he should have motive and purpose to leave and find his own crumbs and not get others to handle it.

If Azimuth turns up cult recruiter I will be suspecting Imaginality of being a recruit. Since no one has countered Imaginality and said they also targeted me night one, I am going to assume he was the guy that targeted me. I can see a jordan using that skill on me based on his character and general play. But that only makes Imagordan Non-cult recruiter. He can still be a recruit or maybe mafia. I doubt mafia based on the kind of action it was, but I will not eliminate it as an option like I will recruit

er

.

Albatross!

Azimuth's claim was overeager, I still want to lynch him.

Albatross!

Overeager? what makes you say that? Explain best you can, I can't think of useful format off top of my head.

[PokerFace]

I wasn't going to push for Muerto lynch today. If he got to night without claiming things would be better. So I wonder if he is claiming to generally help the town or just to trick and or spite me. Why did he not want to wait til nightfall if he was unkillable? Does he remotly think there is a cult that would require a massclaim after all. Does Muerto want everybody to full claim now?

Um.. you guys called a massclaim vote and it passed. The consensus was to mass claim. Me refusing was pulling suspiscion, see Gurgi for one. When you said my staying quiet was basially pointless I decided to save my own skin instead of yours. Makes sense to me.

And I'm the one who went against mass claim, why are you making it sound like I'm telling everyone to mass claim now?

No, I'm not saying that. Massclaiming was my idea. From your claim and insistance that cult was a red herring I got the impression you did not want mass claiming to continue. But at the same time I got the impression you felt every body should claim because of the voting. So I was basically wondering what your final opinion there was. Massclaim all or not?

I began to rethink my judgement and consider you as tobaconist only when you mentioned the vanilize stuff. It looked odd and made me wonder if tobaconist wouldn't be allowed to claim. Which is wierd when you consider I am allowed to claim and hint at you as much as I want.

@Farside,

I am not saying do it, but are you able to full claim without penalty?

I didn't pick up any of those hints you gave during the game. Mainly because I wasn't looking for them from you after you said this...

I didn't get a post restriction and I don't have cigarettes either I feel so plain.

I can understand lying if you thought I was scum, but If I were you I would have avoided making that statement during the day at all. I crossed you off my check list simply for that statement. A bunch of people, Internet, Jordan, and Chenshi never acknowledge they had cigs so I never crossed them off til I checked them or they died. If I were you I would have played things like that. And only said I didn't have them if I became certain the Hungarian Tourist was scum. I wouldn't have risked them being town with me and me being made a liar and policy lynched. A player like you surely knows heavily some can cling to lynch all liars.

And as for the rest, mad thanks on the praises of my game play.

I've made mistakes before(false claiming doctor against Oman when the real doc DIDN'T protect Oman, the claimed and confirmed cop) and I've had good games too.

I don't think I've made too many mistakes this game(except Spyrex) though so I don't see this as being a 'bad player'.

We all got our off days.

As others have said, Azimuth's claim is not very believable. I'd like to know whether the massclaim is on or not, though. I say that if he gets to L-1 then he should reveal targets. I find the muerrto affair belivable but depressing.

But we got to look on the bright side of life and be willing to keep laughing and having fun.

Muerto Question time

1) You said you could see those that target you. Did you see their player name, their character name, or something else?
2) You said you loose the watching and the nk immunity. Do you loose anything else? You are still called a Tobacconist I assume.
3) If I do choose to target you tonight, will you attempt to offer me cigs and a book of matches like I described before night 3? Call it curiosity. I got no clue if I'll still win and be able to get them. Got no clue if we become Masons or if nothing at all happens. Since I didn't loose my skills I see no reason not to consider trying it and seeing what happens.
4) Role attractors, role randomizers, and tons of other things out there may exist which make me think it is still possible for something useful to come from me targeting you if you are truthful. All that oposition in my path finding you and you claiming can muck it all up? I don't think so. Something has got to happen. This idea sound reasonable to you?
5) Did you suspect anyone other than SpyreX of possibly being cult before today?

I originally assumed the tobacconist would win too if I found you. Hense why I brought things up. We both win and we both good, an obv good game plan and move assuming that was the case. Also if I won or can still win I would have / will become unkillable and unlynchable. Making a regular townie become those things throws off balances too much so i'm guessing that's why shaft.ed had me set to switch over to winning with anybody. This is what I truly meant when i said I could not loose because I really couldn't by cndition and skill. Best of all I got a front row seat to however else this game played out.

You only winning with the town surprises me, though I assume that makes sence with Farside. She ain't said she can win another way.

@Farside,

if you can (no likie modkill) and want to

, feel free to comment on that. Give like a yes or no on knowing about other ways to win.

Mueto, Your video is exactly like mine when the Taunters had 2 slightly different videos that showcased the same character. Either that is some bullshit or Shaft.ed be crazy! There were a bunch of different filmings of the Hungarian Tourist Sketch. Finding a simular yet different video to signify and or showcase tobocconist was something I expected.

Because I had more than one victory option, I thought some red herring may exist for me. I am still considering that there may be a red herring for me and you are scum fake claiming, so whether we talk at night or not I guess we are practically unconfirmed masons or neighbors on role standards alone for the time being. Tobacconist or not just like Farside your actions can't be seen or confirmed so by those standards you are candidate for cult recruiter, but I am really leaning away from you being it based on your overall play. You are right about the level of doubt involved with you being a recruiter. I'd sooner believe you were a recruit because of the big opinion change. That or I'm reading you poorly which I certainly hope I am.

Also I looked back at your general play. You were firm on Darla lying, but you weren't firmly on Chenshi's wagon. You never voted him. You replaced into the game and I doubt Mod would let scum replacements talk to their buds during the day even if they replaced. So I wonder if you could have potentially been scum and not known she was a taunter. That may be a bit of a reach but its not something I'm ruling out. I see it as a possibility. After all a red herring role works for an awesome fake claim. I've done things like claim those before as scum.

All the inconsistances and problems I have pointed out so far make me think you can potentially be mafia or cult. I won't confirm you BUT you have given me enough reason and doubt to believe you have at least a chance at being who you really say you are. So I will indeed forgo your lynching for today, just like i was originally going to before you claimed. Effectivly your claim did nothing to keep you safe. Had you kept silent and I checked you I would have confirmed you tomorrow. And had I been wrong about confirming you (You were tobacconist and also scum) then it wouldn't have matter to me since I'd be winning with you after all that anyway.

I began to suspect Massclaiming was unnecessary all too late. I think only those that still want to claim, among the unclaimed should at this stage. If Azimuth is cult recruiter then it would be totally unecessary. The idea of massclaiming was totally mine. it is pratically my fault if all Muerto says is true. I accept responsibility for it, hate me all you want for it should more go wrong. When I believed it had become unecessary to use to lynch scum and or cult I tried to generally guide things away from it happening. "Have only the scumiest claim first and today to keep things secret. And have others claim tomorrow or later" I believe I said something simular to that. Because I did try to guide things in the other direction I am just a little erked when you (Muerto) made all my actions in vain when you chose to claim and said...

I was holding my claim closely till PF got my hints and asked me but he never did and when he said all it did was make HIM win

I was like psh well funk dat.

I was getting suspiscion for saving your butt.

The funk dat makes me think you did do it all to spite me alone. and attackes made to spite someone alone can come off as personal and striking delicate nerves.

@Anyone,

Elvis didn't have a Red herring. There is a chance I don't have a red herring either. There were roles complementing us after all. So would that mean cult recruiter is garaunteed in order to complement luigi? Or would that make it possibly Red Herring?

I got some problems with Muerto because of all I mentioned, but I am not 100% on him being tobacconist and or him being scum. So I won't be lynching him now since he has given enough of a defence to make me think otherwise of him. I am still down for an Azimuth Lynch if he don't respond to our accusations with something really good. If i think of more questions I'll bring them up. If Muerto has any for me, he is more than welcome to ask them. He has the right to think I am scum assuming he actually has a case. No one is trying to offend another person here afterall.

If Gurgi has a Part Two, he can post it now so that it ain't a double post.

[PokerFace]

I originally assumed the tobacconist would win too if I found you. Hense why I brought things up. We both win and we both good, an obv good game plan and move assuming that was the case.

Also if I won or can still win I would have / will become unkillable and unlynchable.

Making a regular townie become those things throws off balances too much so i'm guessing that's why shaft.ed had me set to switch over to winning with anybody. This is what I truly meant when i said I could not loose because I really couldn't by cndition and skill. Best of all I got a front row seat to however else this game played out.

I should clarify this is an assumption that I believe is highly likly bearing some other hungarian things I read at game start. The part about how it don't matter who takes final victory though is in 100% english. I understand it fully and know that part true. I got victory no matter what. Everything else is possible to varying degrees. This phrase book is fucking confusing. What kinda dope were you smoking Shaft.ed?


A part one is often followed by at least a part two. And in case there is a part three (I'm not a mind reader so no garantee) gurgi can now post it. I'm probably going to sign off for today shortly, so if there is a part four, he'll have to get someone else to post between things.

[PokerFace]

Also, regarding the muerrto and pokerface back-and-forth, I think they're probably both telling the truth. Its an odd time to come out with a fakeclaim for muerrto, and why pick something that's immediately going to draw so much scrutiny?

I did think about this but I make it a habbit never to underestimate what people might want to try and do. I have got away with a red herring like fake claim in an irc theme game a long time ago. If Tobaconist is a red herring I've certainly left the door open. So I want to be sure who is allowed to come through.

Muerto's recent post does make me feel better about him though. I can't recall finding any problems with it despite disagreeing with him on Azimuth. Also I'd apreciate Muerto addressing these...

@Muerto,

Muerto Question time

1) You said you could see those that target you. Did you see their player name, their character name, or something else?
2) You said you loose the watching and the nk immunity. Do you loose anything else? You are still called a Tobacconist I assume.
3) If I do choose to target you tonight, will you attempt to offer me cigs and a book of matches like I described before night 3? Call it curiosity. I got no clue if I'll still win and be able to get them. Got no clue if we become Masons or if nothing at all happens. Since I didn't loose my skills I see no reason not to consider trying it and seeing what happens.
4) Role attractors, role randomizers, and tons of other things out there may exist which make me think it is still possible for something useful to come from me targeting you if you are truthful. All that oposition in my path finding you and you claiming can muck it all up? I don't think so. Something has got to happen. This idea sound reasonable to you?
5) Did you suspect anyone other than SpyreX of possibly being cult before during the game?

_________________

I don't have time to read everything. Just a quick thing here:

Farside, I am not saying do it, but are you able to full claim without penalty?

It doesn't look like I have a penalty and as I know this is going to sound horrible scummy I was given a fake name to use. I don't know why and when I asked the mod about it I got a null response.

Elvis is trying to kill you. I am not trying to harm or kill the tobacconist so I don't think they'd need a fake name.

Also quite a few people have brought up religion as being a cult or scum theme. There is logical corelation between Brian (Pythonesc Son of God) and God himself, BUT if a religious theme deemed and fully determined who was scum then, Strappado would also be Scum since she said she was "The Bishop" and I am not really thinking she is scum at the moment. At times our general play styles and actions have conflicted, but disagreements don't well amount to a case on her being scum in these situations.

Also the BAD french taunter was and "evil egocentric character" with the Spainish inquistion. How in anway is the French taunter religious?

Lynching people based on roles alone for some slight correlation should not be "solely" relied upon. Good characters can be bad and vice versa. And apparently characters can be good and bad and in multiples with the taunters here. Scum is still scum they will play scummy and you should always rely on this issue when lynching anyone.

Oh and about someone being able to refuse to join a cult. I have never seen that option in a game before. I have played in a few irc cult games, not many MS cult games, but of the ones I've read and been in, I have never seen players given the option to be recruited or not. As long as their role is recruitable and there are no blockers or protectors involved they will join the cult.

[PokerFace]

Yes, I read and comented in that cult game. Muerto was also in that game. In that game you could not refuse to be recruited. You were recruited or killed based on what the cult recruiter chose to do to you.

[PokerFace]

Generally Muerto I'm just suspecting something different to come out of targeting you even now as apposed to targeting someone else. I don't know what that difference is gonna be but perhaps I'll get it when I see it. I can see your claiming stopping me from winning, but I don't see it nullifying me and stopping me from somehow being useful. Basically I still got my powers so I'd like to find some good way to put it to use assuming there is still some good way.

Whoever I target, Muerto or Not, Please try to offer me the cigarettes and book of matches tonight even if you don't have them or can't sell them anymore.

I will not say who i'm going to target so this request goes out to everybody for now, but basically should anybody hearing this get aproached by a perverted phrase tonight, I would like you to respond as though you had cigarettes and a book of matches for me (Both of those items)

. Try offering them to me during the night like Mirth did earlier.

EBWOP. I'm also going to try an experiment.

Pokerface

if you are looking for a specific role, it is probably not me. But I'm going to try this anyway, since no one who bothered commenting objected. I will sell you cigarettes/matches/a lighter/cigars/a pipe with tobacco/nicorette gum.

Now then, did anything happen after I said that?

I doubt this idea is going to work, but if it does I won't complain.

I won't give up if I can still pull something off to help the town even with this silly skill as my only weapon, I will. Me winning will not cause everyone to loose, so if I somehow still can it won't hurt nothing. And if something else good comes out of things no matter how doubtful it is then that will be even better.

I'd say my suspicion list right now is
Azimuth
The Internet
Muerrto
TheSweatpantsNinja
Imagordan

Some of them I think can only be either cult or mafia so we'll see how likly a cult is or isn't a red herring berring if the game is still going on tomorrow considering all that stuff I said about lylo earlier.

Some people have some really silly roles based on general look I'm getting from those who have claimed and those that haven't. It may be necessary to give some claims more scrutiny and look for fake ones among them later on. I'm pretty sure we are all right about Azimuth being mafia or cult. If he isn't cult, Elvis should kill whoever "She" thinks is most likly to be cult. I won't tell her who to kill and who not to kill, but she should try to hit cult assuming it is around and as strong as we think it is. If Azimuth is cult and preferably recruiter, I'm not sure who Elvis should shoot or even if she should, but I bet she's smart enough to figure out what she should do with her skills from there. Night all

[PokerFace]

I just had a bizzarre epiphany. If I read crumbs and what not correctly from the other players I think I know what every player's role is. Yes I am fairly certain of it. And if we assume another spainish inquistion member killed SpyreX from his death scene then someone is fake claiming rather carefully to hide the fact they are in the inquisition. Not sure who that would be though. Gonna need to question all those claimed tomorrow about this. That or someone somehow picked up the inquistion's comfy chair and used it on SpyreX if that is somehow possible.

Based on my calculations if we have a Cult recruiter it is indeed most likly Azimuth. I actually don't think the recruiter is Internet, Ninja, or Imagordan based on who I think they are. I will not explain my logic here for I fear it will reveal what I think there roles are. They could be recruits, but I don't think they are recruiters. If its not Azimuth then by process of elimination it could only be Muerto, Farside or Gurgi.

If it is farside she would of had to have recruited Elvis which doesn't feel likly. And all her recruits would have to be on the lynch or there would be a quick hammer. And since I know I'm not a recruit, then that can't be true. I don't suspect Farside at all she has played like her normal self in general.

And I don't think Muerto would be recruiter, I'd sooner see him as a recruit or the faking inquistioner. Gonna question him more tomorrow no matter what I do eventually decide to do tonight about him. Gurgi feels rather town based on his overall play. His restriction is a little suspicious but I can't prove it false so it must be real despite its unlikly hood. I can't see any of the other three possibilities being Cult recruiter. So its got to be Azimuth for me. And if Azimuth is recruiter I don't think Elvis will need to shoot. If she thinks she can hit a recruit I guess she can go ahead, but as it stands Azimuth is my only rational choice for cult recruiter. He is either cult recruiter or a mafia roleblocker that blocked ironman and Elvis. And if he blocked ironman he is indeed scum for continueing to allow his lynch despite that.

Cofirm vote: Azimuth

[PokerFace]

That will not be necessary. If you were cult you'd have to be cult with Elvis and there would be no kill from her that could possibly hit another cult, which would mean your cult could quick lynch right now for the win. As long as the mafia didn't target you. And I don't think scum can hit you based on what I think you really are.

Elvis did not hammer Azimuth. She is not voting anyone. If you were cult recruiter you'd have to be with her and she would have hammered. And aimuth wagon would be all cult and I'm not cult.

So in sumation NO! I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW YOUR OTHER TARGETS. You can't be cult recruiter even logically because Elvis would have already hammered and won you the game assuming scum didn't kill cult tonight. And I severly doubt you are a recruit. So I don't need your targets for reasons of thinking you are not cult. Don't say your targets unless you can think of some other good reason you would need to say them.

[PokerFace]

Yes that is true Gurgi.

also on the wagon was:
Azimuth (5) strappado, Lord Gurgi, farside22

Then I got on it, then imaginality got on it, and now ninja voted.

Assuming I didn't miss someone unvoting

, Ninja's vote was the hammer so we all better be right and Ninja needs to learn how to count.

[PokerFace]

I still don't think ninja or internet are recruiters but the fact Gurgi said it was L-1 before ninjas vote (ninja should have seen that) and the fact Internet just used the word "shoot" with a question that generally gives me the impression internet "might" be believing Azimuth's role, makes me wonder if internet already knows Azimuth's alignment.

Scum lie often while Town can be trusted by all, since they generally shouldn't lie.

I still think Azimuth is scum, but the recent posts of ninja and internet have pinged my suspicions some.

[PokerFace]

Oh i thought you said one to lynch instead of two. It was your bad then I guess pending him truly seeing shafted last vote count and going through things. This has just gotten a little confusing now.

[PokerFace]

I'm going to be real busy over the next few days. The 65mph winds left over from Hurricane Ike took out my power only on Sunday. However for some qwirky reason my neighbors across the street have not had power since sunday. Their's is still out. Dear lord I live in Ohio! We are not on the fucking coast and we got trees down and power outages everywhere. How the fuck did a stupid cat 2 hurricane fuck us up. We're not on the fucking coast FFS!! Get me a meteorologist and my power company and have them explain what's what. I missed good football games on sunday for crying out loud!!

At any rate, yes I did talk to Muerto What did I recieve?
I got the Hungarian phrase meaning: "The whiff between your legs attracts the vicinity of canines"

That is the part of the phrase I did get around to translating. There is another part I did not translate yet. What Muerto said translated to 2 sentences instead of one in my phrase book and the second sentence has a bunch of hyphenated characters. I'll have to figure out what that means later, but I did get 2 sentences instead of one this time. Does that make Muerto the tobacconist? I really don't know. The comfy chair is still about it appears and if everyone's role is what I think it is then by process of elimination Muerto would be the inquisitioner fake claiming. I'm going to have to look into this later after I translate the second part.

All I really know for certain is that beastiality is now undoubtly in effect as Alpaca and dogs come to get involved in what appears to indeed be a slightly cleaner, unusual version of "The Aristocrats Joke". If you don't know what the term "The Aristocrats Joke" is, I'll glady tell you what it is and give you my version that once got me kicked out of an Arby's and a few other establishments if you want it. But I doubt Shaft.ed would want me to post my version in this game.

@Muerto,

Paraphase!

1) What did you get from me?
2) What did you try to say to me that became:
"The whiff between your legs attracts the vicinity of canines" and another sentence I ain't translated yet?
3) Did you actually say 2 sentences to me or did my phrasebook just give me 2 for a reason I ain't figured out yet?

I wanted you to say: "Yondalavasa gredenwee strevenca!" or however that is spelled in hungarian. In the video you say that to me and you definatly did not say that phrase so I am not ready to call you tobabconist.

Though I too am begining to think Cult is a red herring for reasons imagordan said so I will no longer discredit you for any of that mess. I ain't going to call you cult. Only problem I have with you is your claim and my belief I can now guess everyone ones role name. I am so confident I know everyone's role name (I don't know what everyone does role power wise) that if someone is about to claim before their lynched today I won't mind shouting out their character ahead of time. Muerto is either tobacconist or faking spainish man. If I were scum and this was IRC mafia I would have already found a way to exploit all this knowledge so Massclaim = very bad. Let's never bring that up again.

I advise others and will myself read over all the bridge keeper stuff that has happened. Some things applying to the use of that skill and it being called townish by some and scumish by others makes me think that reviewing that knowledge will be very telling now that Ninja has died and turned up Scum bridgekeeper.

[PokerFace]

I am not going to say you are 100% wrong Gurgi, but I actually have reason to believe Bing* is something else completly. Call it a Hunch based on what I've assumed from all the other roles I know about. And who I think is what role. And no I can't explain this hunch at this time.

Also in general Doc speculation = Bad. There might not be one doc that specifically stops just mafia here.

[PokerFace]

I have been in theme games before where there have been no docs and where there have been 2 docs so doc speculation = bad

[PokerFace]

I think ironman didn't get his action in on time night 1
Elvis was blocked by Azimuth

And you are forgetting Mirth a "Self target role blocker" hit spryeX on night 1. I don't know what "Self target role blocker" is exactly but I don't think this line of reasoning speculating on doc's is good.

[PokerFace]

If I had to guess I would guess a self target role blocker

roleblocked you by sending your action back at yourself.

Imagordan brought up this guess earlier

[PokerFace]

I don't see a massclaim as being able to out scum anymore.

I suspect 1 evil ego guy alive. And 10% chance of small cult.

To put it simply I was targeted by something last night. I think this something is our doc or a version of a bizarre flavor doc. I'd say 80% chance this thing is our only doc. I also think this something is NOT "The Machine that goes Bing". I'm 100% sure this thing I describe is NOT "The Machine that goes Bing".

I suppose "The machine that goes bing" could be a doc but he ain't the one I am refering too. And I suppose he could have targeted me but there is no Imaginable way this skill I saw could belong to "The Machine that goes Bing". Going any further with this would be a bad idea.

Bridgekeeper visited SpyreX, Internet, Muerto, and BLANK. They are not necessarily cleared yet. I vaguely remember somebody (Not sure who) specifically saying they thought the bridgekeeper could be a WIFOM or some wierd scum role that was just being used to clear scum.

Also K7 sent Internet at the Ninja. Internet should verify this and give the info since Ninja was scum. And this will further verify K&'s skill is what I said it was 1000 times.

[PokerFace]

Part of why I'm looking back is I want to know exactly who said this:

Bridgekeeper visited SpyreX, Internet, Muerto, and BLANK. They are not necessarily cleared yet. I vaguely remember somebody (Not sure who) specifically saying they thought the bridgekeeper could be a WIFOM or some wierd scum role that was just being used to clear scum.

can't remember exact words but somebody said something like this and I want to look at it before we look at clearing or damning those the bridgekeeper targeted.

[PokerFace]

interesting... I'm going to have to check if it was a period or a comma involved in there. Any rate its nothing significant that makes you one thing or the other. You can be tobacconist or faking last spainard or tobacconist and scum in my book. Regardless since I ain't figured out any easy pattern with this stupid phrasebook i'm effectivly vanilla with comic relief. When I could have automatically won and possibly been immortal for the rest of the game assuming you were telling the truth which I deeply suspect you aren't. Being straight up comic reflief wouldn't surprise me since I was given 2 options unlike elvis.

at any rate Muerto,

when you spoke with the bridge keeper why didn't you follow your own ideas and consider lying?

I think that these questions make it more certain that he is protown, as he would not need these if he was scum, and this would make a poor WIFOM, as if he was mafia he could just never claim.

While I'm not saying the BK is scum or town, I'd say assuming he's town because of his questions is bad WIFOM itself. He did ask if you were cult and who your partners are so he could be scum. He also asked if you were scum and who your partners were so he could be cult. He could also be town checking both.

Still seems like a ridiculously powerful role.

Not suggesting this per se but someone might wanna think about lying if the question is too powerful an answer(like what's your ability) to see what happens if they lie.

_________________

I myself didn't think the bridge keeper would be a scum role earlier so this info will be of interest to me as will this

Part of why I'm looking back is I want to know exactly who said this:

Bridgekeeper visited SpyreX, Internet, Muerto, and BLANK. They are not necessarily cleared yet. I vaguely remember somebody (Not sure who) specifically saying they thought the bridgekeeper could be a WIFOM or some wierd scum role that was just being used to clear scum.

can't remember exact words but somebody said something like this and I want to look at it before we look at clearing or damning those the bridgekeeper targeted.

Ninja left a crumb and probably planned to use that crumb to clear himself later. See what's italized?

Explain why you went back and forth on Luigi and the two taunter principle? Those are your #7 and #8 posts so your change of heart looks like an effort to go with the rest of the flow considering what everybody had been saying since there was no definite proof luigi was faking. Only a possibility. If you are going with the flow and not giving your own opinions then you are scum. Also I know your vote didn't count here because you forgot to unvote, but this still lookslike a big flipflop.

I changed my mind on LG because joking seemed like a reasonable explanation and I didn't have anything else on him.

I changed my mind on spyrex because of the

investigative result on him.

That was fairly compelling.

I shoulda knew something was up when he did not support his second result on internet like he did his first result on SpyreX

You trust his night 1 investigation but not his night 2.

That is true.

At this stage in the game, I support the massclaim.

But I guess it doesn't at all matter now. He was inbetween on the 2 taunters and them both being what they say they were and them both being scum too and such. I picked the wrong one by going for Azimuth.

Still if someone gets the time to find what I mentioned in that first quote for me, it'd be apreciated. I don't think what I quoted from ninja is exactly what I'm thinking of there. I thought Muerto or Internet were the ones talking about it in general so I'm just going to review all the bridgekeeper stuff as soon as I get the chance. I probably won't get around to looking more for it exactly until the weekend. Bunch of my neighbors still ain't got power (We are in Ohio WTF you doing power companies!) so they have been going in and out of the houses of those on the block that do got power. I hate those annoying people yet since everyone else is helping them I kinda got to aswell or look bad in retrospect. Anoying bitches.

I will not support massclaim or just character and flavor only claims unless those that ain't claimed honestly feel they should. I don't see a reason they would need to from my viewpoint unless we were about to lynch them. Gurgi, internet, and imagordan are only ones that ain't full claimed yet.

I'll see you guys probably on or close to weekend when neighbors stop needing to be freeloaders and I got more free time.

[PokerFace]

I will only agree with what Farside said after I review what it is I'm searching for. Saying he isn't mafia doesn't make him not cult if there is actually a cult despite how I am doubting it now.

I have thought a few things over on massclaim or not based on who I know is what role at this point. Just wish I knew the alignment of the roles. I am leaning more on that thing being a wierd flavor variant than being a doc after reading some things. I reviewed over things and I actually doubt it will hurt to tell all who is what since there is only 3 left. And since I can already guess who's what, Scum can probably too. Only Gurgi, Internet and Imagordan really need to vote on this. You guys want "FULL" massclaim or not? Only you guys need to pick, Gurgi ain't gave a skill yet. I'm guessing its already a yes from Gurgi considering what he said earlier. So that leaves Internet and Imagordan.

BTW we should verify If what internet said is true. Was anyone visited by the bridgekeeper last night?

I know that I wasn't.

[PokerFace]

I will verify that yes, what Imagordan says is true applying to me. His action I saw and refered to after night one. And he is also the bizarre flavor doc I refered to earlier. He trains or teaches you how to "protect" yourself from a fruit based attacker. And since I don't believe there are any fruit based attacker either that is why I described him as wierd flavor and figured he could come out if he wanted too. If there are no fruit based attackers then there is a red herring there. It would fit the aspect that all his students wanted to be trained to guard against actual threats.

I did consider the word long refering to bananas but the word long itself is too subtle and selective. I thought you might have been putting something over on me back then. So I asked for more. When no one else mentioned targeting me besides you I figured you were indeed the fruit trainer despite the word long being highly subjective.

@Farside,

Did you actually get Imagordan's night 3 action?

Since I can see what Imagordan does and saw it twice with different fruits I will verify he can't be a cult recruiter if there is one. He can be mafia or a recruit but not a recruiter.

I highly doubt there is a Fruit attacker. There is a hiding wedding party.
Is there a tobacconist, is there a cult? I still got no exact clue on those two, but it is likly Red herrings are involved in the game at least partially with no fruit attacker to counter a fruit protector.

I don't see a need for you to do the tiger stuff at this time. I did not know or think anything about that earlier.

[PokerFace]

Well I guessed who was who right, but I didn't think the machine that goes Bing* would be a simple doc considering what I had already infered about imagordan. Can't get them all right I guess.

Nothing really signifcant happened when I went to Muerto, I looked at the response I got earlier from him again and it actually was a comma and not a period. I was mistaken, must have read it wrong in my haste with all the crap that has been going on life wise for me. After the comma was the hungarian words meaning "Would you like to breath in the scent?" Basically dogs like the scent between my legs and aparently I'm suppose to like it too. Fart Humor and pervertion, what does Shaft.ed do if his spare time...

@Gurgi,

I myself have been wondering if there is something else I can do now or even earlier with my skill besides just search for cigs and matches with mishmashed phrases. Do my cigs and matches even necessarily have to come from the Tobacconist, or can I get them from someone else? What would happened if you tried to sell me the albatross when I approached you for cigarettes and matches? Could Albatross somehow be a crazy englo-hungarian-bastard-book word for what I'm looking for? This book does make some crazy words into other crazy words afterall.

Basically what I'm asking is assuming no one else says they are looking for you will you target me tonight?

Use your skill to offer me the albatross, I'll use mine to ask for cigs and matches. In your response back to me try to either offer me cigs and a book of matches or simply offer me the albatross or heck, try to offer me all three (albatross, cigarettes, and a book of matches) if you think that will work best.

I don't know if anything will happen here myself, nothing might happen, we'll have to wait and see. But let's face it, assuming no one specifically says they are looking for you, what else are we really going to do with our skills? Unless you can actually think of something better to do, I say we try and cross target each other tonight to see what will happen.

You in Gurgi?

[PokerFace]

If I just straight up win the game, then that probably means Muerto is lying. Should shaft.ed or myself anounce I have won then I'll be up for lynching him. Heck I'll have won the game, I'll be up for just about anything since nothing will harm me or change anything from my point of view at that time. I'm just going for broke as it is. Spin the big wheel, no whamies, no whamies, stop!

If I don't win and something else happens all together when we cross target, then I guess we'll just have to figure things out on our own from there pending what exactly happens. Something other than me winning happening could mean just about anything pretaining to Muerto telling the truth or not so we'll just have to wait and see.

Wish I had an idea on who I should lynch now. Going to need to review all the bridgekeeper stuff I keep putting off and what not, as I wait to see if anyone saw the bridgekeeper or not last night.

[PokerFace]

hmm... So I'm the only one. Perhaps Azimuth blocked Elvis and perhaps he didn't. If there is a scum role blocker and a town role blocker then that will certainly put a dent in alot of things.

Imaginality are you sure you didn't pick farside night 2 and Internet night 3?

If Internet was night 2 and Elvis was also blocked that night then that could explain somethings pending if Mirth blocked anybody on night 2 and how her blocking works. But if Azimuth and Mirth did not stop Elvis and Imaginality, then a scum blocker is very probable.

Something I noticed, there is a good number of claimed actions that have noticable effects. While Some do not. And some roles can confirm others. I'm going to do some math based on role types and actions and see if there is an actual group chart I can narrow down on who can be cult recruiter instead of a general precential estimation on it being a red herring.

Now if there is a cult, there action must have failed to recruit someone at least once or the game would be over right now.

People with actions that perform noticeable effects on there target

Imaginaliy's

action can be seen. (If he is cult recruiter I'd be his only recruit)

PokerFace's

action is seen by those I used it on. (If I was cult recruiter I would have won already with my recruits considering 3 people I targeted are alive right now.)

K7

sends people after people. This is confirmed by me and internet

asuming no one wants to anounce they saw the bridgekeeper last night. Anybody want to say otherwise? Last Chance

People confirmed based on role

Farside,

Elvis is dead and we know what she was doing there.

Strappado

sees characters and this has been confirmed many ways by people she has seen like Mirth who turned up town.

People whose actions have not been confirmed by anyone

Gurgi

- What effect? Seen by no one

Muerto

- I still doubt he is tobaconist and his actions ain't seen

Internet

- I would say exists between both groups. Why you ask? His action can't be seen by those he targeted yet we all know hit did target SpyreX thanks to strappado. So only way he could be cult recruiter would be if he failed to recruit SpyreX.

Now if there is a cult, there action must have failed to recruit someone at least once or the game would be over right now.

So with that in mind Internet could be cult recruiter but it is highly unlikly, pending actions of Scum role blocker, Mirth, and Azimuth stoping his action from effecting SpyreX.

Ok so there's an actual chart on who it can be. I am really leaning on it being a red herring considering those choices but if wrong that's what we are looking at. I ain't seen Gurgi as scummy during this game. I am in the middle on Muerto and Internet considering Muerto's claim and comments earlier and probability of someone stoping internet. They were both involved with the bridgekeeper stuff, so I am now going to go over their play with respect to any talk they may have made involving WIFOM and bridgekeeper. If I can find someone i think is potentially mafia and maybe cult then that could work out well.

I will look at those I don't think are recruiters for sake of finding scum being a general priority always too. Later

[PokerFace]

PokerFace, Jordan/I definitely targeted The Internet night 2 and farside night 3 rather than the other way around.

However, there's an (in my opinion quite likely) sequence of events for night 2 that doesn't involve a scum roleblocker:

SpyreX attracted elvis and The Internet protected SpyreX from being killed by elvis

and

Azimuth blocked me. (He had expressed some suspicions of JordanA24, so I think it's fairly possible he would have chosen to block him/me.)

(I doubt Mirth blocked me based on my theory that 'self-targeting roleblocker' redirects actions back to the person acting, so I would have been notified that I'd trained myself that night if she'd targeted me. (And if she'd blocked elvis, elvis would have killed himself.) I think it's most likely she targeted someone else that night.)

On night 3, either my action didn't work because farside was hiding, as farside suggeted, or else it's possible that SpyreX attracted me (he died, and we don't know who he targeted).

...

I'm starting to doubt The Internet is scum just because it seems pretty likely he is doc (saving SpyreX from elvis night 2, plus his roleclaim is obv doc flavour), but I guess there is a chance of him being a scum-aligned doctor perhaps. (He saved SpyreX from elvis's kill, hasn't saved anyone from the scum kill.) Not sure how likely that role is.

Thank you very much. I knew I was forgetting something.

Internet being doc would save SpyreX from Elvis.

Azimuth definatly said he was suspicious of You. So him blocking you makes Sence.

And I "think" Mirth was once suspicious of Farside if I remember corectly. If Farside dies hiding with her Hunter, Mirth could have sent Farside back at herself making her hidinging no where on night 2 and saving her from Elvis.

In terms of chance, things working this well are unlikly but considering who was suspicious of who these situations are possible despite the headache or laughter shaft.ed would have gotten. the mystery of Night 2 actually has a probable solution now. I no longer consider Internet a cult recruiter. He has to be some type of doc in order to explain SpyreX's life. He can be mafia or town or even a recruit but he can't be the recruiter if all that is true. Once I read over the bridge keeper stuff I keep mentioning I'll decide if he is mafia or not.

And I also don't agree with you about Killa 7. What you are saying feels like a real farfetched plan to me. K7 would have needed to know Ninja would be dead at this point to further his appearance with internet seeing ninja at this stage wouldn't he? I think K7 just got confused with how best to use his role. I saw something like his role in an IRC game along time ago. It was called "Whispering Tracker" and did exactly what K7 does. And I had the whispering Tracker role. I was very inexperienced back then. It was one of my first mafia games and I did exactly the same thing K7 did. I asked Xyl what he saw Shanba do during the last night out in the open. He responded "That was you who sent me? Well If I didn't kill jdodge, and you didn't since you can only perform one action each in this server's mafia format and you targeted me. And Shanba targeted Xyzzy then the only person without an accounted for action is Xyzzy. He is the only person who could have sent a kill in on jdodge!" Last scum lyncheded day3 happened less then a second later. That was a fun game.

Something else that don't add up for me. Had Ninja claimed bridgekeeper later on in the game, using that crumb I pointed out as evidence, (A good plan that would have been) I wouldn't have let him shake off the premisses of him believing SpyreX and not beleiving the Internet. Maybe he was just making a mistake following others that suspected Internet at that time, botching his plan before its completion; BUT if Internet got lynched or killed and came up town, claiming Bridgekeeper after internet's death with an investigation that could have saved and prevented the death of an innocent had he spoke up sooner would have got Ninja Quick Lynched in a second.

Either this is true:
"He was just making a mistake following others that suspected Internet at that time, botching his plan before its completion"

Or... Internet's death before his bridgekeeper anouncement didn't have a potential to botch his claiming later on. Which would only be possible if him and internet were both scum.

This is why I want to look back at all that stuff. Sorry I keep not getting around to it.

[PokerFace]

Well I found the quotes I was looking for but then I realized another good question. If Internet died and turned up Evil Ego character and then Ninja claimed, Ninja would have needed to explain how Internet passed the bridge keeper investigation without dieing or turning up scum. And that would only be possible if Internet was the GF or lived through lieing to the bridgekeeper. And Internet is already Doc so that ain't possible unless shaft.ed had a field day designing our setup to have a combo GF Doc.

So if Internet turned up town or Evil Ego character Ninja's claim would have gotten him lynched either way. He must have been making a mistake suspecting internet with the town when others began to suspect him. And that sort of thing could only be shrugged off if he convinced everyone else to believe Ninja thought Internet had turned cult recruit later on. And since Ninja wanted Elvis to kill Internet at a time cult killings were important, Ninja could have used that excuse.

So...
1) Either Ninja was "seriously" botching his own groups claim potential without realizing it making internet's alignment un-determinable.
2) Internet is town and Ninja thought he could get away with calling Internet possibly Cult
3) Ninja honestly thought Internet had gotten cult recruited after the investigation

Now my story is sounding really farfetched.

K7 could be scum but I don't believe him being open about his role would necessarily make him scum or town. And saying him targeting dead people makes him scum is bad WIFOM. Its not good enough evidence for me to vote K7.

Muerto could be scum or cult.

Gurgi could be cult (Though I don't find him scummy at all)

Internet's alignment could be town, recruit, or mafia. And the most likly and sencible solution is Ninja made a mistake. And if that is the case, Internet's alignment can't be determined like that so I got ask myself if any of these quotes I found makes Internet or Muerto scum.

Posts very little of actual content, if he were to participate more I might have more of a read, but this is all I have to work with.

Really? Because I feel like I've been fairly on top of this game. If you could point to all the fluff I've been posting, I'll try to change my behavior.

Anyway, while I think we have to consider the possibility that scum would lie and hope to get lucky on the bridgekeeper, Internet looks pretty good to me.

So

vote chenhsi.

I'm not entirely sure I get that much of a read of him, but the lurking and the scumtell. . . well, I want to see some content.

Alright, here I am. To Pokerface, yes I did receive a message I presume was by you. It mentioned 5 pustules on the nose for the skunk you own (paraphrasing, of course). I'm sorry, but I didn't have any cigarettes. I was also visited by the bridged keeper, who asked me if I was mafia, if I was in a cult, and if either, who my partners were. He mentioned the punishment, as usual. I answered truthfully, namely no to all of them. However, I think that these questions make it more certain that he is protown, as he would not need these if he was scum, and this would make a poor WIFOM, as if he was mafia he could just never claim. This supports my theory that the questions are chosen by the bridgekeeper himself.

To Lord Gurgi, I'm sorry that I appear scummy to you, It's just the DBE lynch moved to fast for me to get the replies I desired, and I jumped at Iron Man because his testimony had some massive holes that he could not patch( why he targeted anyone, why it didn't work) and didn't want to lag out like on DBE, and you'll note that I was one of the last to vote, but not the hammer, which is not a position scum usually take. The reason I didn't get in on the chenshi debate is because I'm opposed to lynches because of lurking and thought we had a much stronger lynchee in Iron mian, though he is looking scummier now.

And lastly, I can't quite understand exactly what Mirth's role did, and I would like to know the targets and results of those who have already claimed (SpyreX, Strappado, and Killa seven), to see if we can get more info.

I think that these questions make it more certain that he is protown, as he would not need these if he was scum, and this would make a poor WIFOM, as if he was mafia he could just never claim.

While I'm not saying the BK is scum or town, I'd say assuming he's town because of his questions is bad WIFOM itself. He did ask if you were cult and who your partners are so he could be scum. He also asked if you were scum and who your partners were so he could be cult. He could also be town checking both.

Still seems like a ridiculously powerful role.

Not suggesting this per se but someone might wanna think about lying if the question is too powerful an answer(like what's your ability) to see what happens if they lie.

I think that these questions make it more certain that he is protown, as he would not need these if he was scum, and this would make a poor WIFOM, as if he was mafia he could just never claim.

While I'm not saying the BK is scum or town, I'd say assuming he's town because of his questions is bad WIFOM itself. He did ask if you were cult and who your partners are so he could be scum. He also asked if you were scum and who your partners were so he could be cult. He could also be town checking both.

Still seems like a ridiculously powerful role.

Not suggesting this per se but someone might wanna think about lying if the question is too powerful an answer(like what's your ability) to see what happens if they lie.

Thank you pointing that out, I did not see that. Still, figuring who is cult is fairly low on the scum's list, they mainly want to kill town power roles, so asking role would be better for scum, especially when they have another option than WIFOMs.

Read the entire quotes to see what I mean since Chenshi is mentioned wierdly here too. I'll think more on this later.

[PokerFace]

Should be noted Imaginality is fruit trainer not role blocker Farside. I'd sooner call Imagordan a red herrring doc and 1 shot vig since I don't think there is an attacker wielding fruit present. Us having regular doc and red herring doc don't feel bad to me.

Also Mirth turned up town role blocker.
And Azimuth claimed and turning up town role blocker.
2 town roleblockers 'did' exist but there were different types. One a self targeting role blocker and the other a unique targeting one.

I think you got confused Farside with all the roles and actions and junk. Can't say I blame you with all the crazy shit that be in this setup. Also I'm not being paranoid. I'm just explaining what options there are. If there is a cult its Gurgi or Muerto. Otherwise there is none. And I am leaning on there being none with only those 2 options left.

[PokerFace]

@Strappado,

There is a certain level of irony in the fact your role is one that really tells you roles or rather characters, and his role tells other people who aren't him actions. Which is easier? Guessing a role after you get the name of the character or not being able to guess anything since someone else was told what happened instead of you getting told? Did you not try to guess what Mr. Vibrating did earlier based on his name alone? Lynching people based on role = Bad, so giving that as one of your reasons was bad.

@Gurgi,

I like considering options fully before I dismiss them. When I began to go over how well I understood the setup, I realized fruit training stopped a red herring 100%. I suppose I should have caught on sooner, but oh well. Is there some other point you are trying to make here?

[PokerFace]

I keep forgetting to ask this important question...

@Farside,

Elvis was looking for you, and I am "supposedly" looking for Muerto. Muerto claims and posted a video exactly the same as mine. Is your video exactly the same as the one Elvis posted? You want to post your video?

[PokerFace]

Videos = Different. Thank you Farside

Strikes on Muerto:

Video in corespondence to me compared to farside & Elvis, Claimtime felt off for reasons I already gave in correspondence with Muerto's normal playstyle and fact he made himself Nilla (He could have kept fighting off claiming considering where things could be going then), saying he did not have cigarettes in second post was a lie. I can't recall him ever saying he suspected me so lieing there delibertletly feels bad especially since townies should tell the truth whenever possible. Also Muerto said he was surprised he did not get a warning for saying this:

quote="Muerrto"]Also, PF, STILL no cigs? Man...

I'm kind of shocked I didn't get a warning for that one.[/quote]
He would get a warning for that compared to this?

I didn't get a post restriction and I don't have cigarettes either I feel so plain.

I am starting to think I should lynch Muerto now and forget about testing anything tonight with Gurgi. I am thinking you forgot about lying and tried to make a BS claim out of what you remembered.

_________________

@Strappado,

1) What part of lynching based on role is bad don't you understand?

I don't have a problem with your other reasons but that one is very poor.

2) I don't know if you are scum or town. So how do I know what you say is true?

If K7 is town he don't know if his "seeker" is scum or town. Welcome back to square one.

3) Also I asked you which is easier?

Guessing a role action from a name and destination (Who you watched), or guessing someone's role or action based on their destination and you not seeing the info?You said it yourself that you tried to guess what Mr. Vibrating did. And guessing that effectivly could have helped you learn the setup, true?

4) If K7's seeker is scum, yes it is a risk to send them. Did he ever say he found Me, SpyreX, Mirth, or Internet to be scummy?

Every action has a risk and if he did not suspect any of us then he was minimizing his risk was he not? Would you rather K7 target no one, does that gain the town anything, ironman targeting no one would have been a good thing.

[PokerFace]

I just simply have something against lynching someone for their role alone. Feels like we're playing outguess the mod based on what roles would be most likly scum and which ones would not be. I find measuring ones motivations as the key to determin if they are using their role for the promotion of scum.

I am not defending him I am questioning you based on a poor reason you have given on K7. And I also considered your actions hypocritcal with that reason when you compare the design of your own role. Can you recognize and answer my questions now or do you want to keep avoiding them? I put them in a numbered format so that you would answer each aspect and better understand/recognize what I was getting at.

I am questioning you based on one reason you have given on K7. I said I had no problem with your other reasons though K7 is notorious for lurking in every game I've seen him in regardless of his alignment. Why he lurks so much in all his games I have no clue. Feel free to ask him about that is you want to. I'd actually like an answer to that one myself.

[PokerFace]

@Imaginality,

I hope this answers your question fully

1) Do I think he was able to see those that target him and was able to survive night kills?

Muerto brought up knowledge of being targeted before Strappado said she watched Muerto and saw Elvis, so yes. But I don't think Muerto knows how many targeted him since he didn't bring up Strappado watching him earlier.

2) Does that necessarily make him or fit with him being the tobacconist?

No, it just means his skills are what he says they are. The idea of a tobacconist being unnightkillable and vanilaizeable don't make sence either. Can't say I'll lynch him for those reasons alone but would like to know how they make sence with a tobacconist.

@Muerto,

did you see Strappado watch you or do you only detect people trying to kill you like Elvis did?



I too have seen scum have watchers and or tracker's before. I'll find a link later on if I need too.

Why he lurks so much in all his games I have no clue. Feel free to ask him about that is you want to. I'd actually like an answer to that one myself.

Strategy.

Huh, What does this strategy accomplish for you as a player? How does it benefit you and how does it hurt you or your side?

[PokerFace]

Not saying I aprove of your plan

, I'll take some time to think through scenarios like that when I'm off work but I normally don't like directing power roles especially investigation ones unless there isn't much else they can do (me and gurgi ain't got much we can do if his skill is what he says it is. If people don't think me and Gurgi should test things like that they should say something. I never said you couldn't say something) or the directed roles can effectivly break the game. (This now feels like a small town game. We would need to take extra precations making sure we all trusted who got what info)

Strictly from a role standpoint if we do do it, I'd prefer Strappado was doc protected and given tracker info instead of me. I am not saying I trust her (She attacked my character saying my panties were bunched, I'm a dude. Either you confused mirth being a guy and now you confuse me the other way around or you were insulting / ad homieum me and calling me a girl. You should realize you are a girl and so the insult kinda looses its effect coming from you) but if Strappado were protected we wouldn't loose any info from watching or tracking if she were to die since she would be alive.

[PokerFace]

<<laughs. I laugh at alot of things as part of my personaility. I am surprised you took my rebutal to a serious aspect of getting a dictionary like explanation.

At any rate I probably should let K7 answer things for himself. I don't think I'd benefit from defending him if I was scum. If I think he is town and am town myself I prevent the town from making a mistake. But since I don't know his alignment for certain and just think he is town, I should definatly let you question him if you think he is scum.

If you promise to answer my questions I promise not to get involved any further and let you ask K7 whatever else you want. Leaving work now.

[PokerFace]

Gonna be busy workwise and real-life-wise a bit over the next couple of days. Hopefully I'll get it all figured out by Thursday or Friday. Will post again as soon as possible.

[PokerFace]

Huh I thought it would be a bit more difficult than it last night but to make a long story short I am only on Limited Access, It appears I will actually have some time and ability to access things afterall while I figure out some work and personal stuff.

This post responds to Muerto's last post.

My next post responds to some other stuff.

Remember that this is my video again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6D1YI-41ao

Videos = Different. Thank you Farside

Strikes on Muerto:

Also, PF, STILL no cigs? Man...

I'm kind of shocked I didn't get a warning for that one.

He would get a warning for that compared to this?

I didn't get a post restriction and I don't have cigarettes either I feel so plain.

I am starting to think I should lynch Muerto now and forget about testing anything tonight with Gurgi. I am thinking you forgot about lying and tried to make a BS claim out of what you remembered.

Have you watched the videos? Elivs is Lancelot, he's a main character. Shafted could pick ANYTHING for his video. How many scenes is the tobacconist in?....*crickets* yeah, that's what I thought.

I don't hear crickets. Infact I hear these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Z5Sll7uow&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_ve37gV ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YYM209GJoE&NR=1

Three your tube links that show our same sketch but the videos are different. Didn't take me long to find those 3 different vids considering they are linked in in the simular vids by you tube. The last one is from the The "Something completly Different Movie". Your Shop itself looks very different in that Film. And the 2 french taunters had different videos when they are supposedly the same damn person. Shafted can get different vids for the same damn person and not for two different people in the same sketch? He was able to do that For Lancelot and the Wedding Party who are only together in one scene.

And the line about not having cigarettes is the OPPOSITE of claiming, why would I get a warning for that?

Your points make no sense.

The point I am trying to make is that you were afraid at one point and not at the other when you significantly mentioned cigs both times in manors not identical to claiming. I see the actions as simply both just mentioning cigs. The second one in no way claims or makes me think you had cigs so you had no reason to be afraid during just that one. You should have not been afraid at all or been afraid both times. I see it as an inconsistancy.

As for the vanillaize, that's to balance you. If I could've just claimed tobacconist that's an auto win for you immediately. How is that balanced at all? That's like playing a jester and there's a lyncher that wants the jester lynched and you both know and you only need 1 vote. Jester: 'I wanna be lynched' Lyncher: 'I need to lynch you'. Awesome, we both win. I fail to see how you don't realise how unbalanced your role would be if you KNEW who the tobacconist was.

At first I thought you could claim and I would just have trouble getting the materials based on how I asked my question. I mean let's face it, did it sound at all like I was asking for cigerettes and matches? This phrasebook is really messed up. And heck in the video itself you did claim. You say "This is the tobabcconists" I respond with "Ahhh! I will not buy this tobacconists, it is scratched". You should be able to claim with no effect. This idea makes very logical sence when you consider the sketch itself.


But I guess I can assume or consider your scenario hypothetically for a moment to point out some other flaws. If the means at which I ask the question doesn't matter, I guess it could make sence that you would not be able to claim to balance out me auto winning, but going all vanilla and loosing all your 'personal' skills at your own whim with just a claim feels like a poor way to dismantle and unbalance a setup in a heart beat. You were able to make both me and myself useless in a second, and you know if you would gain anything for having me find you? I get to win and you get zip?

I would sooner expect you would be able to be night killed. That's right, I would accept that sooner simply because Mafia are suppose to be able to kill any power role in any setup barring special circumstances. How does a Tobacconist make sence as unkillable in anyway, he is human ain't he? I thought the reason I could win 2 ways was because you could die before I found you, not make yourself useless. The fact I feared you would die before I found you is the exact reason why I acted with such openess about my role. So I could find you before you died.

[PokerFace]

Random Monty Python related video clip for amusement value: Michael Palin for President!

This made my day

Did anyone notice that K7 voted chenhsi early on in the game in his 2nd post, and in his 3rd he confirmed it saying "happy with my vote on the noob scum".
Any chance he has psychic powers, or maybe he had a little extra info, what do you think?

This is probably the only good piece of evidence you have brought up on K7.

@K7,

why did you vote Chenshi over Darla during most of day 1? Did you actually consider someone with about as much content as you scummier than Darla? Comment on the quote below please.

I too have seen scum have watchers and or tracker's before. I'll find a link later on if I need too.

Why he lurks so much in all his games I have no clue. Feel free to ask him about that is you want to. I'd actually like an answer to that one myself.

Strategy.

Huh, What does this strategy accomplish for you as a player? How does it benefit you and how does it hurt you or your side?

@Strappado,

You ain't going to address my earlier questions? I addressed all of yours

@Strappado,

1) What part of lynching based on role is bad don't you understand?

I don't have a problem with your other reasons but that one is very poor.

2) I don't know if you are scum or town. So how do I know what you say is true?

If K7 is town he don't know if his "seeker" is scum or town. Welcome back to square one.

3) Also I asked you which is easier?

Guessing a role action from a name and destination (Who you watched), or guessing someone's role or action based on their destination and you not seeing the info?You said it yourself that you tried to guess what Mr. Vibrating did. And guessing that effectivly could have helped you learn the setup, true?

4) If K7's seeker is scum, yes it is a risk to send them. Did he ever say he found Me, SpyreX, Mirth, or Internet to be scummy?

Every action has a risk and if he did not suspect any of us then he was minimizing his risk was he not? Would you rather K7 target no one, does that gain the town anything, ironman targeting no one would have been a good thing.

[PokerFace]

Vote: Lord Gurgi

There's a chance he could be faking his PR, his claimed action is unconfirmed and doesn't make a whole lot of sense (LG selling something but no one knows he visited them vs PF buying something and people do know he visited them)...

Another point: I tend to believe chenhsi was telling the truth about his 2-shot NK-immunity. So that makes me less likely to think Muerrto is scum since he also appears to have had NK immunity (didn't get killed by elvis), and I don't see there being two scum with NK protection. 1 scum 1 town is much more likely.

K7 also went some way to allaying my suspicions with his post just now, and in any case as I argued earlier I don't think he should be today's lynch.

I haven't actually found Gurgi scummy. Seen him generally townie, despite suspicion over his PR. Not sure I buy it yet. I'll take a look at the 61st your are speaking of later. But what makes you think Chenshi was telling the truth about him being able to survive night kills?

_________________

The question about my "strategy".. well li never really thought deeply about it but i guess the reasons are..

i never get NK'd which is allways fun, i usually propser during end games and focus my hard earned energy into catching scum and winning games, i usualy dont do much in the beginning of games, i like to sit back and see whats going on if someone pops out as sucm i vote them, see im not as good as a player as you, doing all those big posts and multi quotin isnt really my thing, im sorta lazy and my IQ is probably lower then yours, most of the time when i play mafia im drunk, so i tend to ramble and not make much sense so keeping my mouth shut is probably better.

As for voting chesni day one, i have to go back and look but if i remember correctly i didnt like him pulling the noob card thing ( i think thats what it was).

If you guys are seriously thinking i have been busing scum this entire game you should go back and read the 4 times outa 30 i was scum on this site and i never have bussed once, thers a certain honor code i dont break.

anyways im going to bed now its 7:16 here and i worked 9pm till 5 am.

Since you have played so many I wouldn't be surprised about you forgetting one because actually K7 I read a game where you did kinda bus. You hammered your scum buddy Joudas in mini 578. I say kinda bus mainly becase I usually see a bus accompanied with a case. You never really gave a case on your scum buddy, you pretty much said you thought he was scum after your read replacing in and then later hammered him saying he was not taking the time to explain his case on you.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7874

In the after game chatter you said you didn't like doing it and only did it because he went after you. Chenshi and Darla didn't go after you in this game. Ninja did say he suspected you a few times I think I recall, but I don't recall you ever saying you found him scummy. So I suppose things don't really match any vague bussing behaviors.

If someone can find K7 saying he found Darla or Ninja suspicious anywhere in this game, I'd like to see it in relation to this though

@K7,

1) You saw Chenshi push the newb card and thought that was scummy. Darla claimed the same character as SpyreX and somehow 1 was scum, 1 was town, and they were still the same person. Talk about breaking a meta right there. Breaking that meta aside, Which do you generally consider worse, Someone getting counterclaimed or someone pushing the newb card?
2) What detail finally changed your mind and made you change from voting Chenshi to voting Darla?

_________________

Not responding to the video thing. Basically you're saying, even though he already had a tobacconist video for you, he should've purposely given me a different video because that would make more sense.

Is that really what you're saying?

You made it sound rather silly just now, but yes that is what I am saying. Shaft.ed put in 2 French taunters and yet took the time to find 2 videos. He could have easily used the same video for both of those, more firmly breaking the meta but he did not. He could have also given Farside and Elvis the same video especially considering how many times we see the prince in the wedding party and lancelot together, but the same vids weren't given here. We are inconsistantly the only pair to get the same videos and that is the point I am making.

Mafia are suppose to be able to kill any power role in any setup barring special circumstances. How does a Tobacconist make sence as unkillable in anyway, he is human ain't he?

Um...how many games have you played? There are alot of kill immune roles out there. In fact, serial killers are often immune to at least the first if not all night kills.

I was asking how a Tobacconist is NK imune. What logic could explain that which you did later answer here.

At first I thought you could claim and I would just have trouble getting the materials based on how I asked my question. I mean let's face it, did it sound at all like I was asking for cigerettes and matches? This phrasebook is really messed up. And heck in the video itself you did claim. You say "This is the tobabcconists" I respond with "Ahhh! I will not buy this tobacconists, it is scratched". You should be able to claim with no effect. This idea makes very logical sence when you consider the sketch itself.

I assumed I was night kill immune because of the cop in the sketch actually. He comes and arrests you before I can get beat up(although I get punched once).

But what I was also looking for is an understanding that balancing a crazy setup like ours (One where there are no vanilla townies) has got to be difficult. Your roll assuming you were nk imune and able to watch yourself must have been somewhat needed to balance things and yet one claim from you ends all that. That idea surprises me when making you able to be night killed and claim would have made alot more sence. Especially since your character does try to claim and explain who he is in the video. Its just another thing that does not add up, claiming being your power loss trigger as apposed to death being it.

The point I am trying to make is that you were afraid at one point and not at the other when you significantly mentioned cigs both times in manors not identical to claiming. I see the actions as simply both just mentioning cigs. The second one in no way claims or makes me think you had cigs so you had no reason to be afraid during just that one. You should have not been afraid at all or been afraid both times. I see it as an inconsistancy.

So, I said I didn't have cigs, the opposite of claiming, and I was supposed to be worried about getting in trouble for hinting or claiming, but when I said 'STILL no cigs? man' basically smacking you in the face that I'm the one to ask I'm not supposed to be worried.

Is that really what you're saying?

Here I was looking for a perspective of your view of each action and why one would scare you and the other wouldn't. You did give that so that's one things you just got right. Though I personally feel you really didn't need to be scared of either since, one did present a smack in the face but neither one said "hi I am ___". Still though if you are the tobacconist then you lied so blatantly and that is the main reason why I don't believe. Did you find me suspicious and think lying was a good idea?

but going all vanilla and loosing all your 'personal' skills at your own whim with just a claim feels like a poor way to dismantle and unbalance a setup in a heart beat. You were able to make both me and myself useless in a second, and you know if you would gain anything for having me find you? I get to win and you get zip?

This paragraph right here says 'I'm mad because you got rid of my win condition', period. I understand. Sorry, those are the breaks. It didn't do me any good to get lynched as a cult recruiter just so I could make you win. MY PM says nothing about winning when you get them so since YOURS did I assume I get jack squat for doing it. Maybe we'd be masons but whatever. Weak.

You getting a bum deal or no bonus when I do still surprises me but considering Farside probably doesn't get a bonus besides keeping her own life, I guess you never loosing you powers and me being later able confirm you after I found you would balance that so I'll let just this issue also slide. The issues I made about you claiming and ending it all and our vids being the only same grouping I still find valid elements against your claim. And the fact you originally lied.

But there are some others things I'll ask now aswell
1) You have no powers now. You got nothing when I saw you last night. Correct?
2) What made you think Azimuth's claim was real?
3) Who do you consider is scummy right now?

Over the weekend I'm going to go over a bunch of the stuff I said day 1 about Strappado being scum with Darla and see if any of that stuff bares relevance now or if its all null. I'd still like her to acknowledge my questions from earlier too. Ones motives for any actions or poor reasoning should always be looked into. later people.

[PokerFace]

The only reason you are in those pants is to hide your naughty bits.

<<Wishes he had a video link ready for this reference

[PokerFace]

I wasn't tipped off that you were doc. I was tipped off that you were "the machine that goes Bing"

Who hadn't claimed at the end of yesterday?
Ninja
Imagordan
Internet
Gurgi

Gurgi was albatross guy or lying scumo and I had not seen him as scum so I assumed that was his claim.

Imagordan targeted me night one and mentioned he did day 4. I know what hit me night 1 so i put 2 and 2 together and thought he was a flavor doc and that maybe we had no real doc.

Ninja left a crumb of him being bridge keeper that i pointed out earlier.

Now what role was I told existed by strappado that is the only one left and who is the only player left.
"The machine that goes Bing" and Internet.

Process of elimination combined with the play of others told me you were "the Machine that goes Bing". And i guess you are a doc since SpyreX wasn't killed by Elvis. Whether any of that makes you scum or town is the only thing I don't know.

Earlier you said something like thinking the bridge keeper power was activated or sent by more then one player. What exactly ever gave you that idea? And you also said you were going to push for Ninja's lynch today. I ain't saying post that case, I am not a cruel guy that wants you to do alot of work, but off hand what was the main reason or what tipped you off to thinking he was scum?

[PokerFace]

I am gonna be short for time over the next few days so commenting on posts 1686 to present will be awhile.

Scum List:

1) Muerto

- Still not buying claim. Feels off for previously given reasons

2) Strappado

- Answer questions please I have been reading over some of my stuff on her from day 1. I still don't like the idea she reached the possibility of 2 taunters first, feels like inside knowledge she tried to hide with false ignorence. Here 37th and 38th posts at end of Day 1 while she is not on Darla still make me wonder if she was Darla's partner, but her attitude toward Chenshi is firece. Can't see her with chenshi. Didn't look like a bus. Maybe I'll get time to go over this more I hope.

Tie at 3) Gurgi / K7

- Gurgi is process of elimination. But since I ain't seen him as scummy I don't think he should be lynched. He has not done anything scummy in my eyes so

I don't support Imaginalty's plan

if he is the lynch today. And I did get time to look at Gurgi's 61st post and what he said about Chenshi and Ninja did not look bad to me. As for K7, there are standards of honor and then there is saying certain things to get away with other things. I've lied through my teeth as scum to win a million times. And I am also very noble towards my partners and avoid bussing when it is not necessay, but I have been known to design some of the most intelligent plans where one scum buddy buses another at a very crucial time. I do it more often then most realize. Me and the person I am bussing plan it all out and agree on these plans at least a night ahead of time. The person being bussed wants to be the one being bussed and so we have honor only among theives with our agreements. We do not show our audiance honor, only deciet. There is nothing like a well coregraphed buss that all particpants secretly want to happen for sole purpose of victory for the group. Being an actor and writer in my spare time, makes designing believable buses rather easy for me. The point I'm making though is the only time I truly have honor to all and not just to my friends, is when I'm town. And most people I play with are like this.

And I did link a game where K7 did practically bus someone.

And so at this moment I'd like to know what K7 generally thinks of the game. Who does he suspect, he should have some opinion on who is scum. And I'd like him to comment/answer what I said earlier too
...
Skiming to the bottom of the barrel with just an order
...
Imaginality, Internet, Farside


Night Targets:
Target - Memory of hungarian response (Notes are at home on hungarian junk so this is from memory)
Elvis - The Mother has elephant ankles
Internet - The Daughter's behind gets more visitors than the eifel tower
Imagordan - The Father pants are pink and thin or lustrious
Muerto - The scent between your legs attracts the vicinity of dogs, have a sniff


Something you should all realize, Any role can be scum! Any role can be mafia. I didn't think Ninja would be scum as Bridge Keeper, but he was. Lynching someone because their role can't be confirmed is pretty much Epic Fail at this point since chance of there being a cult is pretty much nill.

If you think someone is scum for their overall play, you should vote them regardless of the role they have or claim.

imaginality: I looked a bit more at your post and never did you mention anything about TSPN in any way shape or form.
Here was your thoughts on chenshi I found:

chenhsi

Semi-lurking lazy village idiot. And then commenting on the night kill to boot. The only thing in your favour right now is that you've had five votes land on you so quickly that there seems a fair chance of scum being on that wagon. On the other hand, since there appears to be two anti-town groups (scum and SK or scum and cult, or possibly even scum and SK and cult), you might still be scum from a different faction to those on your wagon.

If PF hadn't admitted to getting fruit from you at this moment I would consider changing my vote based on the fact you ignored TSPN in your large analysis and your post about chenhsi.

If you think That kinda post make Imaginality scum, you should vote or at least question him about it, despite his role being what he says it is and me verifying his actions are such. His tiger attack should be used before lylo on someone. If he is scum he can use it out of nowhere for a win. It should be used to possibly get 2 lynches out of one day assuming it doesn't end the day.

If you think someone's role can be charged or posseessed by scum, Smack yourself upside the head and look at Ironman. Alot of people said his skill was inheritly scummy. In wasn't I gave examples how it could be used to help town and tried to measure Ironman's motive's to see if he was scum. If you aren't looking at someone's play and motives when you make a vote then go hit yourself.

I'll comment on individual posts that I have not read ralley much of later on. I only skimmed through stuff after 1686.

@Gurgi,

Wait for Shaft.ed to get back from wherever and find out if you'll get modkilled for breaking PR too many times. If you won't which you shouldn't be, then I may have you make big posts and forget our targeting thingy.

Though if that happens we are effectivly loosing a possible investigation on Muerto's claim. I don't trust him and that may be the only way for me to test things. I don't want to give Muerto a free pass especially since I don't think Gurgi is scum.

@Imaginality,

There's a chance I can possibly use my action to narrow down things on Muerto and Gurgi. What do you have to say to that considering your plans? Also since scum can send no kills in just about ever game setup I've seen I don't think your tracking and watching everybody plan will be gauranteed to have 100% success on finding scum especially on the slight chance there is more than one and they just don't send kills while we are watching. Your plan is a good play but there is a certain group of factors that can get involved and ruin things.

And Gurgi's PR not having a penalty for doing his PR more than he needs to makes perfect sence to me. I have had PR's in other forum site games. And as far as him by choice doing more then he needs to, there is nothing wrong with being too careful so if he wants to follow his PR more times then he needs to I am fine with that.

[PokerFace]

What the heck, Imaginality!? I go out drinking thinking I wouldn't have to say much in thread when I get in and what the heck? That plan looks really complicated. I ain't finished thinking all the way through your post 1729 yet, but I did think of some off hand things that could fuck up that plan.

1) Farside hides behind someone scum kills. Farside and another player dies shortening our numbers. What effect would that have on your plans?

2) I think you may already got this one covered considering who first lynch is between (Too sleepy and drunk to make sure you covered it so far), but let's say we are all wrong and there is a cult. (Very slim chance yes but hypothetically) Only way cult wouldn't win would be if we lynched the recruiter now or the mafia killed them at night. I don't know about you, but I definatly don't want to rely on mafia help.

I'll review that last comment and the bulk of your plan more when I ain't slightly ineberated. Later.

[PokerFace]

Ok now i got time to start going over the plans. Time to play devil's advocate and find any flaw.

Best way I can find flaws is I got to first conclude the liklyhood of Imaginality (The planner) being scum. i got no imediate gripes I can think off hand with your play.

@Imaginality,

1) Are you sure you can use the tiger only once?
2) Can you use your tiger skills only during the day or can you also use it at night.
3) If you use it during the day, how likly is it that it will count as our lynch? Will we be able to vote someone off after? You should have already asked the mod about this.
4) This question is 100% subjective and hypothetical. If i were attacked with Logan Berries or Bananas, what do you imagine I would do to my attacker? You think Shafted would write a scene about it during the next day start?
5) Have you ever heard of the role: "Mafia Mad Gunner" before?

I'll outline any flaws I've found in my next post. Later.

[PokerFace]

Potential Flaw 1:

The role "Mafia Mad Gunner" is a mafia aligned role with the power to day kill once. Its day kill

never

ends the day because if it did the game would go to night allowing mafia to kill again.

Sometimes

when it uses its kill the Mod will confirm the player who made the kill as being a "Mafia Mad Gunner. I doubt shaft.ed would make a mafia mad gunner role that could also protect players against a fictious attacker, but hell I also doubted the 2 taunter thing so I am preparing for just about anything really. Basically you killing successfully doesn't confirm you as town so you cn probably count that as a flaw if you wanted to. But I do lean towards thinking you are town out viewing your play.

Solution:

We just evaluate our situation we your kill not confirming you should things get that far.

Potential Flaw 2:

The flaw of farside potentially dieing with someone else can be solved 2 ways. One she hides with who the doc protects or two she hides with no one and that way 2 deaths won't turn up. She won't be killed with someone else if she is not hiding with someone else. I won't suggest which one Farside should do.

Solution:

She can pick herself based on her situation and how she wants to play, to hide with who doc protects or no one.

Potential Flaw 3:

Cult!

Solution:

Kill most likly to be cult recruiter first

Potential Flaw 4:

Some Scum Blocker

Solution:

Fuck none! Though it appears unlikly at this stage.

Your plan is not perfect since there is alot to chance. Only tracking and watching results actually help us determine if someone is town or not assuming there is 1 scum. I apparently would be getting the tracking results so I guess thats ok since I know I can trust myself. But everyone else would have to agree they trust me before we continued.

@Everyone,

Do you all actually want to trust me? Are you all ok with imaginality's plan? If someone doesn't trust me or doesn't like the plan they should definatly speak up.

@Those having their actions directed,

Do you all agree to use your actions as specified under penalty of lynch?

I myself would most prefer we lynched scum today. Top suspects are pretty much the same though I am viewing K7 and strappado with pretty much equal weight now. The problem with Muerto is NOT entirely that he claimed at a bad time. Considering how majority of town wanted claims and we saw him suspicious I guess it was alright but I still have issues about his video and not being able to claim stuff. I am allowed to claim and say practically whatever I want to get him to show himself during the day. At night I say whatever the phrase book tells them. Phrase book looks pretty random since I have said pretty much the same thing to everyone and yet they have seen different results. I only changed my phrases a little bit grammar wise each time and the results have had some very dramatic differences.

Because of the Bridgekeeper thing I actually consider the potential of Ninja wanting to find power roles or cult from Muerto via those questions. Ninja said these after checking Internet and SpyreX

Anyway. Iron Man's play yesterday, and no particularly interest in going after DBE leaves me feeling OK about his lynch today. I feel pretty good about spyrex, its just such a gamble to counterclaim like that, knowing it'll get a buddy lynched, for just the possibility of being semi-confirmed.

Anyway, while I think we have to consider the possibility that scum would lie and hope to get lucky on the bridgekeeper, Internet looks pretty good to me.

I don't recall Ninja saying anything like that about Muerto, I'll have to look back. Ninja refuting his results on internet is very suspicious aswell when he asked Elvis to vig Internet.

I guess I am ok with a Muerto lynch but I actually wish I found something other than his claim suspicious. His overall play has not sent up many red flags. Gurgi's play has been relativly town aswell. In terms of actual individual scuminess, I actually kinda wish we were at the part picking between K7 and Strappado already. And if niether of them is scum then we moved on to the internet and maybe imaginality.

Gurgi and Muerto should look at your plan while everyone decides who they most think is scum. I am actually not too happy scumhunting wise with the course of this day yet I myself have been running out of ideas as no one really sticks out as exceptionally scummy. I'll take a look at things in general myself and see if Muerto truly is the best lynch.