Mini 2127 - Fairly Special [Game Over]

[Churros]

Gobble from 0 to 10, how much you enjoy playing scum and again from 0 to 10 how much effort do you usually put in your scum games?

Don't lie because I might find out if you do.

Last town game I played with him he definitely put way less effort in and way less posts

Do you think effort can be easily seen through just posts in the main thread?

Yes

[Churros]

I'm dropping my TR on Sujimichi for now, he began to post questions and posts that I don't see a lot of purpose behind, the kind of thing that makes them look busy while I don't feel they are.

I've also read to some extent Adorable scum game that mastina linked and yeah, she's very overly analytical there just like she seems to be here, she sounded a bit lighter and more natural in her recently finished game with me Mini Normal 2124.

I just thought effort was equal to town for her, I didn't expect to see her putting so much effort in her scum game posts when she literally flaked often on her marathon scum games for what I assume was a dislike of the alignment.

I may or may not be confusing whoever I saw flake on marathons too, but I don't think it was someone else. I vaguely remember a jigglypuff or the name adorable.

[Churros]

Adorable has requested replacement.

Deadline will remain frozen until a replacement is found for both BP and Adorable.

uh

[Churros]

Unless I missed it, no one seems to have answered me on a quick catch-up of important things in this game.

Not sure why you're more interested in shading me than in properly explaining EP's situation to me either titus. If it's as urgent as you're trying to make it be.

[Churros]

I'm still good on my vote on Titus and I will feel even better about it if I don't find her reason for "lockscum" EP convincing.

[Churros]

I feel less happy about my town lean on gobble as well

I'm gonna keep my town core as only [Chronos, Mastina] for now

I'm kind of doubtful scum!Adorable ever replaces out like that though mastina, that would be even...slightly unethical. I don't see Adorable in that light.

[gobbledygook]

I feel less happy about my town lean on gobble as well

Por quoi?

[Churros]

I thought you would be the type to put significantly less effort as scum than you admitted you do, but that's not really all.

I don't have any specific reason other than I liked more the vibe of your opening than the vibe of your most recent posting

It had a lighter/carefree tone to it, kinda. I don't have any bad pings from you though, I just don't place confidence on you being town right now.

[gobbledygook]

It had a lighter/carefree tone to it, kinda.

Interesting. My own self evaluation would come to the opposite conclusion.

[Churros]

I could quote some phrases which made me think that but that's too much work

off the top of my head I remember you posting huge commentary walls but also saying hi to people in thread in a friendly way, posting emojis at the middle of the text, saying things like "Town core: Activatem Scum core: Die!" etc. It may seem minor but I get my reads on minor things.

You were serious business while at the same time not being serious business which made me get a warm feeling on you that I don't really have right now for some reason.

[Churros]

It's not like you stopped being friendly but I don't get the fuzzy warm feelings from your posts anymore.

I don't know what to say beyond that, I'm trying to follow my instinctual feelings this game. They disappoint me way less frequently than my logical side.

[gobbledygook]

Ah makes sense. The post I am currently writing up has a bit of that, but the lack of that is an energy thing. I've been lethargic last two real life days.

I'll post the post so you know I'm not bs'ing you just because you said it.

Welcome to Wifom City.

---

Fair point. What do you think of Titus' reasoning? And further, do you think my read of her questioning on me is accurate?

1. I am a little surprised at the intensity and severity of Titus's play thus far in the game. I do not think that there is much to Titus's reasoning (EP's vote from BP to Chronos). I feel like Titus might be stuck in a tunnel when it comes to you.
2. When I read this question, I drew a blank on what your read of her questioning meant. I looked through your iso and I still cannot explain what "[your] read of her questioning" is referring to. Can you link it?

Re: the addendum -- I sometimes find it helpful to sort people based on their reasons for townreading (eg. Volpe's reason for townreading me in TM20). Your scumreads won't always be correct, so sometimes you can find town based on their town reads.

What do you look for when analyzing an individual's reasons for a townread?

It's his conviction that's unwarranted given the evidence and it has nothing to do with what EP did.

What do you think of Titus's conviction in her scumreads?

Particularly Sujimichi because this is night and day different from any Sujimichi towngame I've ever seen.

I liked Sujimichi's early posts. How is his play in this game different from his play in the town games you're familiar with?

Turkey is locktown of locktown….

I appreciate the kind words. They mean a lot coming from you. I hope I don't disappoint with this new found burden on my back.

If you add Eyesott to your scum core I could support this.

What didn't you like about eyestott at this point in the game?

This S/T v S professor non-sense needs to stop.

Why do you feel so strongly about me playing this way?

Now, asking me about Suji when I explained in the post above seems like you trying to look busy. Skimming my posts would be fine as well but why question my read list when you've not even read my post explaining it?

Do you think scum!Titus would ask such a question? Do you think scum!anyone would ask a question that has such an obvious answer?

---

Does anyone have any modern covers of older songs that I could listen to? I like listening to music when I do dives into games.

[gobbledygook]

Churros about to hate me for this post. Sorry, buddy.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Adorable

I'm sold, honestly.

I said over here everyone approaches games differently and you can't expect a town player to play the same in another game they play as town. I'm getting really sick and tired of this meta discussion to the point when there is no case on me. Maybe I should just claim and this should be a lesson learnt to never focus on meta.

Claiming won't clear you in a role madness game. Furthermore, I would be very disappointed if you were actually a powerful town role.

When this post happened, I didn't like it. As I sit here thinking about it, I still do not like it.

Titus

, what do you think of this vote and the subsequent comments?

--

I still have the last few pages to read. I think Mastina and Chronos are my top townreads.

Would you please go into your Chronos read more in-depth?

Finally getting around to this (again )

The read mainly stems from Chronos's early aggression towards Team STRQ. I think Chronos is an alt, but I really do not see someone trying to take on a town four-headed hydra in the way that Chronos did. I would expect scum to take potshots at the hydra, but tackling a slot with four heads is a huge undertaking. It is even more difficult knowing the four heads in that hydra. Krazy, Alyssa (Ankamius), Taly,

and

Enter? Yeah. If I was scum I would probably town read that slot to pocket it and then blow it up into smithereens in the night. All four of those players can be extremely dogged and frankly I do not think it is worth scum's time to try to fight that beast head on. Both 122 and 165 show that Chronos is not afraid to take monumental undertaking onto her shoulders. I really do not think scum pick that fight that early in the game when there are plenty of other weaker slots to attack.

Independent of her attack on STRQ, I think she had comprehensive scumhunting much earlier than I would imagine a scum would begin to try and fake comprehensive scumhunting. You can see what I am talking about in 217.

I hope that helps clarify my townread on Chronos. I am going to jump ahead because I know you asked me about my read on Churros.

Apart from the wonderful alliterative effect of putting Chronos after Churros in my towncore, I found these two posts to be townie.

There was a lot of...words, and I didn't parse everything yet (I'll re:read the game at some point), but from my skim I came up with

[Chronos]
[Adorable]
[Everyone else] - null
[Eyesott]

I felt eyesott posting was forced and when I did properly ISO him I only saw filler or posts that came off as trying to look busy. I'm quite happy with those reads.

Basic premises:
I do not think Churros is an alt.
I think Churros is still new to mafia.

Given those premises, I do not think Churros makes this type of readslist. Churros listed Adorable as the second highet townread. This is going to draw the suspicion of mastina, another player who if I am scum, I just try to pocket and blow up in the night.

I am very much supportive of the path of least resistance when I am scum.

[NOTE - part of the above analysis is wrong as Churros has admitted to being an alt focused on casual play in 499, I still think that the casual aspect of the account leads Churros to not want to antagonize or set himself up to butt heads with mastina though]

The scumread on eyestott also seems like original scumhunting. It isn't just a blank scumread. It is accompanied with reasons in the post below.

I don't usually explain town reads but I feel like I'm going to mostly work with those two (I don't think I'm going to get confident town reads on anyone else in this playerlist, I don't vibe well here) therefore properly explaining it for once might be the way to go.

The main reason I'm TR'ing both slots is that I feel both actively invested in solving the game, in a way that it's not just a "solvy post to look busy".Chronos's posts come off as very engrossed in the game and his long posts don't feel like the classic scum writing a lot of redundant things to make posts bigger. His words have purpose.

Adorable seems actively solving the game and I distinctly remember that being huge town points for him, because his scum meta is being rather lackluster as far as I know. It would be something null for most players but I TR him for it.

Adorable/Chronos, give eyesott ISO a glance. Not interested? I've really not a grasp of the game and skipped around 60% of the posts in my skim, but I feel good about my SR on him regardless of anything else.

Moreover, I find the

orange

to be candid in a way that I doubt Churros would post it as scum. Churros is still new to the site. I doubt Churros has established a meta or reputation as a player that does not explain their town reads, but Churros chooses to acknowledge this and go out of their way to post about it.

However, this could be something like EP where Churros thinks Churros would post that comment if town and has a guilty conscience about it. But, I think it is more likely that Churros is town in this instance.

---

It sucks.

Thinking back on this answer, Chronos, what was this in response to specifically? I asked you two questions in the immediately preceding post.
I asked you what you thought of Rabid Schnauzer's vote on me, which I think is what you answered.
But I also asked you what you thought of my opinions on EspressoPatronum, which I do not think you answered yet. 357 if you need a refresher on which post I am asking about.

---

Why would I omgus you for calling me Professor Gobbles? I find that title to be a compliment.

Oh bullshit. It's clear by the context I wasn't using Professor Gobbles as a compliment. You have been filling up the thread with useless theory while interacting with EP rather than anything that sorts him.

Titus

I am still having trouble parsing this.
Could you point to my interactions with EP that show I have not been sorting him? Out of all the slots in the game, I would say that I have been trying to sort him the most. We were fantastic mason partners in Mainstream Mafia II and we worked well together in Team Mafia 2020.

Scum Core: Die
- Titus
- Rabid Schnauzer
- Egix96
- EspressoPatronum

This scum core is another reason I don't trust you Gobbles.

Your scumcore is my two scumreads, me, and the one other guy voting EP. Your pool is about distancing from EP but shading those who want him dead.

Your interactions might as well be a neon sign of scum with EP and BP. I don't let people have their cake and eat it too.

But you know I am scumhunting. That's the rub. You may not agree with my methods, but you know I am using them. You know this is how I hunt from T v A as well

You expect too much of me. I have the memory of a goldfish. When it comes to things, I can't really remember anything. People get mad at me for asking a lot of questions, some of the time being redundant or already asked questions, but it is because I have a super terrible memory.
I do not really remember the specifics of your scumhunting.

I do remember your tone though. It is much harsher here.

gobble I unvoted Adora cos it was my RVS vote, and I didnt want the wagon getting too big

Why is the wagon getting big a bad thing?

---

[eyestott]

Weird fact about me before I get started: My inactivity on MS seems to coincide with when I'm being ghosted by cute boys. I'll be starting a thread in the Speakeasy so I have somewhere to vent other than an active mafia game

Spoiler: @ gobbledygook Post 367

If anyone would like the data from my little experiment (as in when I leaked my role to who) because they think I may have been onto something, I'm more than willing to provide the information.

What data should we be asking for? I don't even know what to ask you about your results.

What were your results?

I mean like (as an example), I could talk about the specific post that I made blatant reference to say, alimdia's role flavour, and her lack of any change in her attitude towards me

Why did you choose the flavor names that you did?

It was mostly random, except for players I was already familiar with (Mastina and Titus)

The plan is that during early day one, I subtly tell certain players that I know their role flavour by referencing it.

I don't know what this plan is supposed to do for you. Let people know that you are the Role Flavourer. Ok. But beyond that? I'm not sure I am following.

See how they react to me claiming to them covertly. There wasn't really a whole lot else I could achieve with this role.

Spoiler: @Churros Post 373

Fast forward to now, and what have I learned? I have no idea. I don't think this plan of mine actually achieved anything other than confusing everyone and distracting myself from actual scumhunting. So for that, I apologise. If anyone would like the data from my little experiment (as in when I leaked my role to who) because they think I may have been onto something, I'm more than willing to provide the information.

Could you be more straightforward with your posts?

I will try. From now on, I'll be self-deprecatingly honest and blunt.

I'm entertaining reconsidering my read on you because giving people flavours seems fairly useless for a scum role in madness setup (is the setup roles randomly generated though? I don't quite understand "madness setups" other than there's lot of weirds roles and madness), but your posting is really lackluster.

I agree that my posting has been lackluster. I am to fix that once I get out of this hole I've put myself in. The hole being that I've spent so much attention on a plan that wasn't as fruitful as I'd hoped that I don't really have many solid reads.

RVS you spent a lot of your posts making silly content while there was already useful discussion going around

Your posts there were really awkward and sounding like you wanted to fit in, especially your early unvote.

What was going on in your mind in early game?

Fitting in was exactly what I was trying to do. The aim was to appear average, kinda like a control group, then to compare most peoples average read on me with the reads of people I had seeded to. However, I failed to remember that 'trying to appear average' is very much a tactic almost exclusively used by scum.

Spoiler: @Espresso Post 383

@eyestott -- what went into your decision for my flavour?

Not a whole lot. I'm sorry your flavour is so bland, but I tried make sure that no two players flavour roles were more or less connected than any other pair.

Spoiler: @mastina Post 400

mastina hadn't properly read the rules.

Hey can you really blame me? I did skim the rules to see if there were any special mechanics that would make me not want to stay in a game I didn't sign up for but nothing of that sort stood out to me and most rulesets are pretty much identical and the tidbit about your role was a small easily-missed detail.

Oh no, I don't blame you at all!

Pretty sure that Mastina now thinks that STRQ and I are both the role flavourers, which is why she offers to townbloc with us in 18.

Nah, not Turkey's slot. You, yes, got the meaning immediately, but Turkey's slot was an instant lock for the townbloc because if you look at page one it is painfully transparently obvious that you two are town. Like, you just have that instant sort of :vibe:. Role had nothing to do with it. Just the sort of instantly locked townbloc that you just...get sometimes.

I don't see it myself, but I'll take your word for it.

Spoiler: @alimdia Post 470

@eyescott
letting people know you are role flavourer seems like a legit reason for your 'hints' - but how exactly does their reaction have to be for them to be scummy?
Like.. how you concluded anything from your role flavour hints to people?

Initially I was kind of scumreading you because of how your stance on me didn't change after my seeding my role to you (You know the post where that happened, yeah?). However, this has changed now, partially due to my own lack of confidence in how admissible any of the 'evidence' I gathered actually as, but mainly because your case on me is completely justified from a town perspective.

[alimdia]

Er lol I did not notice where you seeded my role to me, mainly cos I didn't understand my flavour reference to begin with.

I must admit, I also didn't read the first post where it said that there is a role flavourer in this game.

Does that mean the role flavourer only has role flavourer tho?

[alimdia]

@gobble

yeah on hindsight I should have stayed on for a little bit and see if anyone else was oppourtunistic.

[alimdia]

But I'm usually for removing rvs votes when real shit happens

[alimdia]

Brief summary on the EP+BP vs Titus issue. (quotes below)

I think the EP+BP grouping is kinda BS.
The BP case is semi legit if you literally only look at that one post, until you consider that BP only made 2 posts all game and is now being replaced.
Also the jumps in logic that Titus has was ??? BP didn't do an RVS vote, he just complained that there was high activity. btw, I complain about high fluff post games as well but don't vote those high posters(mastina can attest to that)
Then he says EP and BP are scum together because EP agreed, voted BP, and then changed his vote to other people.
Thinking you found 2 scum via making a mountain out of a molehill is really...

Now, I've got to go reread EP because he might be independently scummy for other reasons, but not because of that interaction mentioned above.
And also hope BP's replacement gives us stuff.

How is this on page 3 already?

VOTE: Cronos

I hate titans.

VOTE: BP

Hates the rate of the game, but doesn't vote the higher posters.

Scum Core: Die
- Titus
- Rabid Schnauzer
- Egix96
- EspressoPatronum

This scum core is another reason I don't trust you Gobbles.

Your scumcore is my two scumreads, me, and the one other guy voting EP. Your pool is about distancing from EP but shading those who want him dead.

Your interactions might as well be a neon sign of scum with EP and BP. I don't let people have their cake and eat it too.

Suji, can you help me get things going on scum? EP, BP or Gobbles?

Gobbledygook is Town. I think so more now than when I was just looking at Team STRQ.

Could you summarize why you so strongly believe that EspressoPatronum and BP are Mafia?

BP's vote was highly scum indicative. He complained about the pace of the game, which was slow. He also didn't vote anyone who was actively posting at the time. Those two together are basically a neon sign that BP just wants to lurk away. I highlighted this. EP agreed and we voted him. Then EP bails after picking a fight with obvtown Chronos.

I am rather annoyed at how often I have to repeat this.

Gobbles is distancing from the pair rather than scumhunting IMO.

[alimdia]

Gobble from 0 to 10, how much you enjoy playing scum and again from 0 to 10 how much effort do you usually put in your scum games?

Don't lie because I might find out if you do.

Last town game I played with him he definitely put way less effort in and way less posts

I switch up my general activity and posting style to prevent people from being able to get activity reads on me. The game in question was running concurrently with TM2020 Whiteflag where I was scum and purposefully lurked. That then lead to real life getting in the way so I lurked disproportionately across the site.

To answer the question if I like scum... well, I am curious, Churros, how would “might be able to find out” what my preference is?

I prefer playing town. I don’t like playing scum because it takes the detective/solvey part out of the game.
On a scale 1-10, probably a 6 for enjoyment in playing scum. On a scale 1-10, probably a 10 on the effort I put into playing scum. I put 10 into effort playing as town too.

Do you think effort can be easily seen through just posts in the main thread?

yes, cos it doesn't matter if you're sherlock holmes if you put no effort into convincing other people.

[eyestott]

Er lol I did not notice where you seeded my role to me, mainly cos I didn't understand my flavour reference to begin with.

I must admit, I also didn't read the first post where it said that there is a role flavourer in this game.

Does that mean the role flavourer only has role flavourer tho?

what does the last question mean? I think I may have already answered it.

[alimdia]

aka is that the extent of your role.
Since you seem to be hinging on the reasoning that you must be town because your role is 'weak'

[eyestott]

aka is that the extent of your role.
Since you seem to be hinging on the reasoning that you must be town because your role is 'weak'

I did promise I’d be completely honest. I am an

informed

role flavourer. Im not sure whether the information is completely useless, or if revealing it may bring one of the anti town factions closer to victory somehow.

I would definitely prefer to not have to reveal it now, but if you ask me again, I will tell the truth.

[EspressoPatronum]

[...]

Fair point. What do you think of Titus' reasoning? And further, do you think my read of her questioning on me is accurate?

1. I am a little surprised at the intensity and severity of Titus's play thus far in the game. I do not think that there is much to Titus's reasoning (EP's vote from BP to Chronos). I feel like Titus might be stuck in a tunnel when it comes to you.
2. When I read this question, I drew a blank on what your read of her questioning meant. I looked through your iso and I still cannot explain what "[your] read of her questioning" is referring to. Can you link it?

1. The other answer is she's just scum. What's your meta read of her? Is she normally like this as town? With the exception of MM2, I don't think I've played with her.
2. I linked you the relevant posts in a spoiler below. In sum, I think her questions to me are actually just shade/attacks.

Re: the addendum -- I sometimes find it helpful to sort people based on their reasons for townreading (eg. Volpe's reason for townreading me in TM20). Your scumreads won't always be correct, so sometimes you can find town based on their town reads.

What do you look for when analyzing an individual's reasons for a townread?
[...]

Mostly the genuineness of the read. I find it easier when I'm the subject of said townread, but it can sometimes work on others.

Since scum already know who is town, they sometimes oversell a townread without sufficient reasons.

Does anyone have any modern covers of older songs that I could listen to? I like listening to music when I do dives into games.

What genre?

----

Re: Titus' questions/shade.

Spoiler:

EP, why do you just float on various forms of OMGUS? First Chronos now Egix.

I would like to note at the outset that

[Titus'] "question" here is really more of an attack

, but I'll answer it anyway.
[...]

[...]
Happy to discuss reads when I'm back in later.

This is what we're doing now. You'll note that in my answer to you at 326 that I answered based on my read at the time of the list.

I didn't include her evasiveness to my questions or her attacks masquerading as questions.

[...]

[EspressoPatronum]

post 383, EspressoPatronum"]@eyestott -- what went into your decision for my flavour?

Not a whole lot. I'm sorry your flavour is so bland, but I tried make sure that no two players flavour roles were more or less connected than any other pair.

Thank you. I have some follow-up questions.

1. Did you struggle with anyone else's flavour?

2. Regarding my flavour, why did you choose this specific flavour? I understand that you wanted to avoid overlap, but that doesn't actually answer how/why you chose mine.

3. What hint would you have given to me if your plan wasn't foiled?

[EspressoPatronum]

aka is that the extent of your role.
Since you seem to be hinging on the reasoning that you must be town because your role is 'weak'

I did promise I’d be completely honest. I am an

informed

role flavourer. Im not sure whether the information is completely useless, or if revealing it may bring one of the anti town factions closer to victory somehow.

I would definitely prefer to not have to reveal it now, but if you ask me again, I will tell the truth.

Before you reveal the information itself, can you first reveal the type of information you know? Eg. If you know roles of specific people, say "I know people's roles" before you actually say their roles.

No need to do so yet, but consider doing that before a full information reveal.