Battle mage wrote:Wow...no need to take it personally! /quote]
...I don’t think I took it personally. If I was rude or anything, sorry, that was not my intention. I just disagree with that the read.
orange wrote: People should stop talking about roles, it doesn't benefit village and gives the werewolves more information than they deserve about who is or isn't what role. If you feel the need to discuss the setup, do so in a way that doesn't spew you as not X role. Hider outing is a terrible idea, optimal play for hider is to hide behind their strongest townread each night unless that player is vulnerable to a nightkill and if hider outs then it becomes very simple to narrow down who they are going to visit at night. Vigilante is also a lot more power for town than tracker, and the vigilante should be shooting the counterwagon each night, so as long as the vigilante is doing their job there should never be any real risk of the vigilante inadvertently hitting the hider. Detective/psychologist is going to have false positives with a vigilante around but that should never be a serious issue when claims happen, as long as they are sensible and don't out on day 2 or day 3 if they happen to get an early result.
That.... is a really bad idea
For some reason you’re assuming that the hider’s biggest town-reads will be scum or null-read by the rest of the game, thus they won’t be night-kill targets. How often do you think that happens lol?
trading a cop(hider+tracker combination) for a vig is NOT worth it imo
Hiraki wrote: Don't necessarily agree with the above but it comes from town.
Yeah, agree here
orange wrote: In situations where you want to claim a role day 1, you claim later in the day rather than at the start of the day because it gives village more information from interactions before the player becomes a clear villager.
Frankly, I don’t think getting the info early or late makes a big difference... having info about the wagon on a townie might not necessarily be more helpful than the time spent on pressuring someone else...
but tbh I’m not really sure if my train of thought is good as well so I’ll just sit quiet.
orange wrote: You claim unconfirmable roles day 1 in large part to avoid issues with counterclaims later, but you don't really have that with hider because the hider can just announce that they're hiding behind their counterclaim and whichever hider doesn't die that night is a wolf. This is why no wolf who understands the role interaction would ever counterclaim hider, and why village never needs to spend kp on resolving a hider counterclaim, which is also why hider outing day 1 is bad.
...honestly, why did you even think of counter-claims here lol? :/ That’s completely besides the subject
battle mage wrote:However, reference to werewolves, when it's obvious you know there are no werewolves in the game (because you've read the setup) did make me happy, happyorange. I'd consider this quite a bold open from scum, so giving benefit of doubt.
How is saying “WW” instead of “mafia” AI at all? There are a lot of players who come from other sites, which I think should be hard to miss if you’ve played not the site for a while.
And you joined more than a decade ago, so... lol....?
The post feels like a stretch.
Dr. Dolittle wrote: VOTE: VOTE: tet
Why?
Dr. Dolittle wrote: VOTE: VOTE: 72 actually
...why?
battle made wrote: early read, based on a sample of her recent games, is Hiraki = town.
How do they play as scum?
Madoka wrote: ejj wrote:DKK wrote:
So are there any established strategies for this setup or what do we do? I can already think of 1 potential strategy giving it a quick glance but I wanted to ask those more experienced what they thought.
Pfffft, I love how this seems both humble and arrogant at the same time xD
If you have any ideas, just say them
What was arrogant about it to you?
It seemed to come from a pov of someone who already considered their idea as the best one.
If they had an opinion and thought that it was good enough to mention, the only reasons they could have had NOT to say it were to either avoid looking stupid or to try to probe the “experienced players” in a seemingly humble way.
Or if they’re scum, to wait for people to to say their ideas first to see if it’s possible to make them follow a slightly worse one :/
Both last options are arrogant in a way and based on his previous posts, the first one just seemed unlikely.
DKK wrote: Playing chat mafia for as long as I have, people who are marked as clears who lead almost always claim early, and that is the meta I have been accustomed to as it has worked well there. It's been discussed before on there, and its been agreed upon that letting town waste time pressuring someone who is going to be outted as clear is time wasted that could have been used to pressure a mafia.
well, yeah, that’s what I was saying :/
battle mage wrote: Madoka, why do you think Orange is suspicious for arguing something so obviously wrong, and anti-town, when it was already pretty clear the consensus was against him?
I'm not convinced yet Orange would stick his neck out like that for no reason if he was scum, much more likely to fade into background agreeing with majority.
This is a bad read imo. If you think that he is town for that, why not openly say it? It kinda sounds like you want to give a hint that you disagree with the wagon without openly stating your stance on the matter.
Dkk wrote: If something speaks like scum, then it probably is scum. From my experience at least. I implore people to put pressure on orange and make them explain themselves. I am personally not satisfied with their logic as all it does it help setup mafia and invalidate PRs
...lol
Ngl, the wagon on orange is starting to get weird. Being wrong is not always AI and is definitely not townie so so many players yelling at each other because of it feels slightly off.
DKK wrote: I'm half pressed to just vote you because you don't have an avi. Being aggressive and confident are traits of good players. I suggest you stand down unless you want me to hyperfocus you for your unwarranted shade.
pfffft, ok xD
I’m starting to get why people voted me at the beginning for being active
(it’s not a read btw, just sth I found funny)
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DKK’s aggressiveness is NAI at worst imo. I disagree with how strongly he pushes his read but he made it pretty clear that he’s mostly doing that for pressure.
This could be faked rather easily but regardless of his intentions, he is progressing the game on his own, which is probably good.
madoka wrote: I don't agree that it's obvious to everyone that it's anti-town. I also think it's risk-reward is worth it. The advantage of not having town play to the optimal strategy of 45 and getting the TV to choose Vig is worth potentially being cast in a bad light, especially because Orange is clearly confident in their ability to argue against the strategy. (I openly guide town into following a bad strategy myself as scum).
100% agree with that
dr. Dolittle wrote: i townread you dkkoba
VOTE: dr. Dolittle
Elaborate on your previous reads.
this post was a joke but considering his lack of content and previous naked votes, it felt bad.
It feels as if he’s openly trying to fly under the radar.
orange wrote: Counterclaims happen because wolves believe they can get the role they're counterclaiming lynched, wasting village kp. Hider countercalims don't work this way, because if player A claims hider and player B counterclaims hider, village ignores them, they both target each other that night and whichever player is the real hider will die in the night. Village then lynches the fake claim. At no point does village need to spend time/energy or kp figuring out the counterclaim. Hider doesn't need to be mechanically confirmable with a track result because it's impossible for wolves to successfully counterclaim it, and leashing a tracker to a hider in order to mechanically confirm the hider is a waste of tracker's night action. Does that make sense?
Do you have any reads?
dkk wrote: the tracker doesn't go on the hider in order to confirm the hider ya dunce
dkk and orange are NOT in a team together
dkk wrote: Hey bud, you gonna shade me for good reason or are you just going to be a coward and FoS me based on my confidence in my play?
I’d say the same here but honestly, I’m not as confident.
battle mage wrote: Nah, you're just desperate to vote for me because I'm voting for you, and you're struggling to find any excuse.
Aggression and confidence can be good if you have something strong to back it up. You don't, so seems like it's just an act (which is trait of a scum player). Especially when you opened up with "hello, this is my first non-newbie game", which was about as soft as it gets, and by page 4 you'd moved to stuff like:
"I implore people to put pressure on orange and make them explain themselves."
"If something speaks like scum, then it probably is scum."
For above reasons, and the transparent threat to vote for me even though you are apparently convinced that orange is scum, I'd be comfortable lynching you today.
Vote: Dkkoba
(for added emphasis)
That’s a strong claim.
Why do you think his entrance was scummy? Considering how long he claimed to have played for, he should have been very aware of what to expect of himself here. If he’s scum, your guess would probably be correct but I’ve seen townies emphasize on them being “new” often enough to really doubt if it should be read at all.
His entrance felt more like a pride thing to me. Sort of like an ego boost that he could claim to have played better than the “experienced” players despite “being a newbie”.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case regardless of alignment
battle mage wrote: Dkkoba - consider yourself 'shaded' for good reason. :glasses_smiley which I can’t quote ): :
It might be your first game, but panicking about 1 vote on Page 4 isn't a good look.
Actually, take the thing about me not being confined in their interactions back. The push seems serious
tet wrote: VOTE: Allomancer
Elaborate
72 wrote: Agree, I think the ship had sailed and Orange wasn't going to convince anyone, so I don;t think scum presses the point here, but would rather back off and blend in with the rest of the players.
Orange vs DK feels more like TvT to me
elaborate on the town-read on orange
allomancer wrote: I don't like dkkoba's vote either. orange just joined the site a week ago, so I don't think him being wrong about setup spec of all things makes him scum.
Wait, he did?
Oof
@orange, you played on some other sites, right? Can you say on which and for how long?
ddk wrote: Before i think about replying imma point out my pronoun is right there under my avi, not hard to see.
yawn
aloratom wrote: In my experience with DkKoba, this is normal for them so I don't have a scum read there.
I don't understand the Allomancer wagon. 72offsuit, why do you go after It for "all information, no reads" when that's pretty much what everyone had been doing to that point? And Dolittle slides a vote in on Allomancer too without even a how ya doin'.
alora might be town
I didn’t note it down and forgot who wrote it xd wrote: I feel like the fact that Dkkoba is new makes it more likely he's confident, because new players could easily be overconfident. I know I was when I joined this site.
As for why I was setup speccing, it's because it was early in the game and I didn't have any reads yet.
he said that he played on epic mafia for 4 years.
That means
literally nothing
dolittle wrote: I'm not sold on allomancer scum, but I think a wagon there can do good things
then why the previous vote. And the one before that
Do you have any actual reads? If so, elaborate on them, please.
hiraki wrote: He states that it's town vs scum but his wording makes it sound like town v town. I don't see scum making that move too often and, if so, it's calculated. That post feels off the cuffs.
I have no idea what the post is about but the thought process seems in depth.
Iconeum wrote: 71 wrote: tet wrote:
Hider claims don't cross target. The tracker can figure out the hider between the two via night actions and the hider knows the counterclaim is scum.
The way hider + tracker work in this setup is essentially a cop in combination.
Hider doesn't have to out their targets. Tracker follows the hider and if the hider lives the person they visited is a green check. If the hider dies and there is a nightkill then it's a red check.
Scum can't counterclaim hider in the setup. They can CC tracker but only if they successfully lynch the hider since he can corroborate the targets.
Now this sounds like you are encouraging scum to CC hider -_-
and you think that's a scummy thing to do? you think he's telling his buddies to CC when the time comes? why do that public and not in PT?
I don;t understand this post at all
——————
Iconeum seems to be happy.
ico wrote: not my best pagetop, but i'll take it
In post 131, Battle Mage wrote:Allomancer - do you still not have any reads? I got the sense you might have a scumread on me, as I'm the only person you've come close to indicating suspicion of.
