Twice Baked Wrestling: Brawl at the Bakery! {Game Over}

[Cena and Savage]

It's JOHN CENAAAAAAAAAAA

VOTE: wondertank

[Cena and Savage]

VOTE: kublai khan good job ramcius you already caught scum

[Cena and Savage]

I mean you're talking about policy lynches day 1 in a meme wrestling game and are toxic but good job

[Cena and Savage]

VOTE: Cena and Savage

secret hydras are always at the top of my lynch list by default

Fuck, even in non-secret hydras I get at least one of these every game.

It's dull. Do better

It's not going to be hard figuring this head out.

And actually, are we a secret?

VOTE: kublai khan good job ramcius you already caught scum

I mean you're talking about policy lynches day 1 in a meme wrestling game and are toxic but good job

yeah you, I'm talking to you.

[Cena and Savage]

No problem!

Help us wagon Kublai, gogogo

[Cena and Savage]

Yeeeeeah. I'm good parking my vote exactly where it is. Someone is excited to be scum.

And that someone is....

Spoiler:

kublai khannnnnnnn!

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

Why did you vote Wondertank in your first vote?
Why are you taunting people with your anonymity?
I'm guessing you're voting me for being a second vote on you. Confirm/deny?

For the record, I don't know who you are and I find being distracted with trying to figure out your identity to be a dumb distraction.

So don't try to figure out our IDENTITY and figure out our ALIGNMENT, since you literally can't see me!

Yeah, we're voting you for naked voting immediately after a policy lynch vote with no comment on the previous vote, BRO.

Now it seems like you're BACKPEDALED since you're re-spinning your vote as being about our OP.

But we're too OP FOR YOU BRO

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

Alisae knows why

E knows what e did

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

misrepping

lol we gottem boys, I'm ready to end day on this slot

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

So it wasn't because they were a hydra themselves?

This is why you voted them in the first place, right? If so, then you might actually be town for it...Hmm. You're kind of angling towards it, why not just state it?

~insomnia

Are you arguing "voting someone for being in a hydra" is outside of KK's scumrange? I don't think "naked voting for bad reasons" is outside anyone's scumrange

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

taunt

I think Randy wanted to see just how MANLY you are if it's that post you think was a TAUNT

But I think you playing up a "taunt" about this is you trying to GENERATE EMOTION off NAI CONTENT and it's very SCUMMY

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

I'm really confused. Is he roleplaying John Cena or is he claiming that as his flavor

IT'S JOHN CENAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

VOTE: c&s

I am annoyed

Scum is annoyed I'm burying their buddy on page 3

YOU READY FOR SMACKDOWN?

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

KK is hardly the only person in this game to, in your words, "naked vote for bad reasons"

What's your point? I was saying that was a bad reason to townread him, that's not why I think he's scum.

Are you following the conversation?

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

Nah Battle Mage is town

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

Damn I was hoping Boon would be town this game but it's not looking promising

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

Panzerjager really working hard to earn the night 1 vig shot so far

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

Yeah you really seem like you're enjoying yourself, announcing an OOG deathtunnel in your opening with some of the most toxic noise I've ever seen in any game ever. Off... 17 posts.

Your outrage here seems incredibly fake

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

VOTE: Panzerjager

Like let's look at these posts

>Player gives himself permission to deathtunnel for NAI reasons
>Slot doubles down on AtE for basically no reason
>Does 0 real solving
>Insists here for a good time
>This seems unlikely given opening posts

Xtoxm tried to pull a similar deathtunnel for bad reasons in TM iirc, so deathtunnels for NAI bullshit isn't even kinda sorta townie

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

spamming the thread and being generally obnoxious

WHAT? 20 posts in 10 pages is "spamming" as the third highest poster? What is "generally obnoxious" in my posts exactly? All I saw from you was asking if I was roleplaying or not and now you're adding your ante to Panzer's tantrum?

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

Or was that about Alisae now?

[Cena and Savage]

I have a lot of town on slots I wouldn't expect, Battle Mage, DGB, Flubber, FlippyNips, Ram

I'd null/town Drew and Reck

Odd early gamestate but whatever I'll take the town where I can find it

STEAK

Is this a reference to something?

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

What was your goal in making that point?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I wasn't surprised, I was asking what the purpose of your post was. Are you trying to dogpile me because you scumread me, do you townread UT and Panzer? Does any of this have to do with reads or are you just going out of your way to bring up toxic bullshit to pollute the gamestate even more?

If you're just adding on posts not to advance the game but just to make things more toxic then yeah, I'm wondering what your goals are. Why do you think asking your goals is me being "surprised"?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Have to say this is the most hostile game I’ve been in.

There's pretty much a 0% chance the amount of toxic bullshit being pushed on me is all coming from town, these are grown ass men acting like someone just took their binkie. In some games scum might try to play peacemaker but at this point it's more likely scum are trying to demoralize the game and pollute reads

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Like, Kublai Khan's position isn't incomprehensible. He says he was voting me because he disliked the excited tone of my RVS. That's not scummy; what was scummy was him naked voting following the policy lynch post and then insisting that his vote had nothing to do without without making clear that he was not buying into the policy lynch logic in pages 1-2. If he was town, he could continue to push but he would make clearer that he wasn't buying in for that reason. Allowing that perception to unfold and then crying about "misreps" when I say that's exactly how his position looks, that is scummy.

However, there are worlds where KK is town. In those worlds, there are scum trying to dogpile me with this bullshit negative sentiment, probably to try to pocket some combination of whatever is town inside KK/PZ/UT. My posts have not been so "obnoxious" to justify the amount of shade being pushed on me and the attempt to dogpile is like wildly scummy in this gamestate. If scots is town and is unaligned with PZ then it's scummy as shit that he is flipping out over the mod trying to make the game less toxic when PZ's posts are wildly, wildly toxic.

People white knighting PZ here are scummy as well since PZ's posting is not townie and giving him more towncred gives him leeway to be more toxic and more disruptive to the gamestate.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

hot take, cena is lynchbait

but he's doing a great job of it

do you have other reads?

[Cena and Savage]

If you are replacing out, you should stop posting and convey your intent to the mod and the mod alone.

[Cena and Savage]

I think your last page was pretty town, I was unsure before then

[Cena and Savage]

This is literally what DEB did when he rolled scum in TM lol

Xtoxm in the normal as well

And scum won that game partly off it

[Cena and Savage]

Ok. do you want them to keep playing in the manner they currently are?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I'm really confused, I had to ISO my other beautiful head to see people had issues with.

Other than secret identity and reactivity to the hostility of this slot ??? I don't know, I find my head to be quite reasonable here.

Plus, I haven't played with anyone who's most upset about this being a secret hydra, before.

So if this is a meta hangup, it's not valid to 1/2 of the equation.

I'll discuss with my other head if they want to out identities, but even in the event that this take is advantageous for us as a hydra, does it warrant this response? And if it's AI, is it really black-and-white?

Questionable, yes, but we're not immoral. Let's have a time-out.



Also, this should be a grossly huge hint on who 1/2 of this hydra is. Y'all pushed me to getting out the kitties on page 10, damn.

-Savage

[Cena and Savage]

I'm really confused, I had to ISO my other beautiful head to see people had issues with.

Other than secret identity and reactivity to the hostility of this slot ??? I don't know, I find my head to be quite reasonable here.

Plus, I haven't played with anyone who's most upset about this being a secret hydra, before.

So if this is a meta hangup, it's not valid to 1/2 of the equation.

I'll discuss with my other head if they want to out identities, but even in the event that this take is advantageous for us as a hydra, does it warrant this response? And if it's AI, is it really black-and-white?

Questionable, yes, but we're not immoral. Let's have a time-out.

11

For the record, this is my 4th post? 2nd since page 1, so I'm free for someone to speak with me.

Also, this should be a grossly huge hint on who 1/2 of this hydra is. Y'all pushed me to getting out the kitties on page 10, damn.

-Savage

[Cena and Savage]

Also having the audacity to complain to the mod when they are the asshole has honestly moved this beyond something I'm willing to let go.

I'm pretty sure they complained about my RVS on them, so it's on me for not thinking through before making that joke

As for their anonymity - I'm here to play mafia, not meta simulator, so I will judge them for what they do, not for who they are. Sometimes people just want to play mafia without being haunted by their past

Oh no, my prod on you wasn't meant to be out of frustration, I wanted to see your reaction. I think people are finding the responses of this hydra to be more serious than they are.

I'll be honest and say that I am bored of people who have immediate issues with hydra because there's always at least 1 in a game, and both town/scum do this, and it immediately corrodes town cohesion and game health.

So, to help find a difference, I "pushed" you for a reason, you felt genuine. 15 and 17. My head and I believe Page 1 interactions can be very solid, so we intentionally said things that would get people's attention.

We figured you (Ramcius) were coming from a town mindset who wasn't going to push-down on an idea which

people would actually use to lynch us

, and have attempted to understand a viewpoint.

And why were less sure on KK, because while his ire toward this hydra could be true on his past experiences, it's an incredibly easy stance to manufacture. It's less truthworthy, and doubling-down before reassessing didn't appear town-indicative.

[Cena and Savage]

JC and I are very tonally different, so I won't be so anal about sigging everything if I forget? 254

So it wasn't because they were a hydra themselves?

This is why you voted them in the first place, right? If so, then you might actually be town for it...Hmm. You're kind of angling towards it, why not just state it?

If I'm in a game with a hydra, I just about always vote the hydra first. They pinged me a little stronger than your team because they voted your team without any explanation. So it seems a little hypocritical.

I know I'm projecting and it's all going to be dismissed as try-hard nonsense, but gut reactions are what they are.

Yes, all hydra's in this world are in a secret alliance where voting the other warrants policy lynches. My head and I have sinned, and must die.

Cena and Savage are both good guys, believe that!

Kublai Khan - not sold either way.

I'm always mildly suspicious of people who say an early dispute is "town vs town". So let's open with

Vote: Wondertank

One of the most productive entrances so far. +1

Cena and Savage are both good guys, believe that!

Kublai Khan - not sold either way.

I'm always mildly suspicious of people who say an early dispute is "town vs town". So let's open with

Vote: Wondertank

What's your gripe with it if you don't even have a lean on KK yourself?

~inso

Solid question.

Cena and Savage are both good guys, believe that!

Kublai Khan - not sold either way.

I'm always mildly suspicious of people who say an early dispute is "town vs town". So let's open with

Vote: Wondertank

I actually agree with you with what you said regarding Cena and our slot, but I do think there's an arguement for KK being scum, though I need to engage him a bit more.

The dissonance between questioning and sorting at the same time feels more likely to come from scum; I'm not fond of the T-T paint, but I'm a horrid culprit of doing that as town much more than scum.

Either way, both thought processes of each hydra head are nuanced enough to make me think they're a townlean.

Orton feels like a third-party claim to me tbh.

I see no reason for the claim having happened, so I have no opinion.

-

So, I'm at like... at 3 nice townreads and 1 scumlean, and I haven't read past page 4 with critical thought, yet.

-Savage

[Cena and Savage]

The dissonance between questioning and sorting at the same time feels more likely to come from

town

; I'm not fond of the T-T paint, but I'm a horrid culprit of doing that as town much more than scum.

Either way, both thought processes of each hydra head are nuanced enough to make me think they're a townlean.

Town, not scum... I can make a thread on putting the wrong word on something.

-Savage

[Cena and Savage]

Yeah, the only one who could complain about being an anon hydra is boon, but he could probably figure me out in thirty seconds if he carwd anyway.

For everyone else, a sinple question: are you actively using meta for every other player in this list? No? Then 'zomg advantage anonymity' is a full of shit argument. I have either 0 history or only 1-2 games with almost everyone in this playerlist and wouldn't expect big meta arguments anyway. Acting like you need my head when none of the people bitching about it know me is bad faith. Again, these are not people using meta anyway. And continuing to push this argument is past the point of bad faith to the point of actively corroding thr gamestate with bullshit reasons to not solve organically.

Also I have never seen people throw tantrums like this and I have hydra'd a lot. I guarantee this game's toxicity has literally nothing to do with me. Given panzer's play toward ali, every move he makes is structured as either a policy lynch or a personality conflict so he is pretty much exclusively using toxicity for his play so far.

Who am I? I'm John Fucking Cena. If you need more than that you're not playing this game, you're playing some other one.

-JOHN CENA

[Cena and Savage]

Reck is town

Is this take from rvs? How far through the game are you?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

263 is a good enough post I'm feeling really good about flubber in townbloc.

KK tripling down on the trash argument and not responding to my points from last night is a terrible look.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Also, Cena and Savage are hidden identities, but they were using meta earlier on me, weren’t they?

Lol, yeah, I’m with you lot. Down with Cena and Savage!!! (For me in a scum way, though)

I don't think 'I was hoping you'd roll town with me but I don't think you did' is a meta argument

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

You townspewing your slot would be wonderful for gamestate actually

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Cool turkey is town

Turkey do you agree with reck's read of UT?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

gobble is town anyway but also hard chainsaw on reck/gobble, not that it will likely matter but noting it for my iso in case I second guess later

[Cena and Savage]

What did you mean by hard chainsaw on reck/gob?

I think you're both town, but if I'm wrong and one of you is scum, the other is definitely town

Not sure if that's correct use of word 'chainsaw' but that's what I meant

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

What made you reconsider on BM DGB?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Cool

I think I was right on adding DGB to hard townblock

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I do think at this point that ~2 scum have been sidelining and hiplop does fit that, but I don't know how to separate hiplop from pisskop, kuroi, or EPJ at this point though and I doubt everyone who hasn't entered the game yet is scum

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

VOTE: hiplop

sure we're in midgame, it's not a bad time to start pushing slots that haven't started playing yet to spew some content

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

What does chainsaw actually mean

Like they are different alignments?

[Cena and Savage]

this game of guess... wait, i've said this before

OR

meta is trash

and not being on your main allows means you can just put that noise to the side and, in theory, play the game

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

2 slots that are trying to play or a 1 slot that throwing tantrum? I'm fine with using my finisher on you tonight, if we can get more people interested

Battle Mage, Alisae, want to join in on this?

If we have four people that agree to finish Panzer then the only way he should be saved would be if scum use protective on him which would give us a fair amount of info on the setup

My preference though would still be to simply lynch the slot though VOTE: Panzer given he's still doing nothing other than complaining about his empty policy lynch push

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Which hydra gg?

[Cena and Savage]

Do you think I am scum?

[Cena and Savage]

I believe the only slot still in the game complaining is panzer who will be dead by day 2. So for whom does the game become more playable?

[Cena and Savage]

Not on the whole, actually I was discussing the plan in my masonry and was going to propose it later tonight. I actually think it's a fairly townie proactive thought process, the only thing that jumped out at me was you characterizing my slot as a "problem slot" since that was kinda gross

[Cena and Savage]

Anyway here's the blockings I'd go for:

Team 1: Vigs panzerjager
Cena and Savage
Battle Mage
Wondertank
Ramcius

Team 2: vigs flavor leaf? they can discuss and decide vs. flubber
Reck
UT
chenni
DGB

Team 3: can choose vig shot together
gobbledygook
egix
KuroiXHF
Emperor flippynips

Team 4: vigs.... something in team 5?
Flubber
Lavender
Doctor Drew
Espressojet

Team 4: needs to justify their continued existence by vigging scum
hiplop
BullDunne
Boon
pisskop


The appeal of teams of 3 vs teams of 4 is whether we imagine scum have a roleblocker vs. whether we believe scum have a scum protective vs. whether we want to totally shut down all town PRs vs whether we want to make it very hard for scum to manage nightkills.

I was thinking teams of 4 would be better since a) then if there was a very strong TPR in the group they could still act and b) there's enough ??? slots in this game that I don't want to mislynch people because they forgot to submit a night action

But you might be right that forming a poe of slots where there would HAVE to be a multitasking scum player might be informative as well

I'm still thinking about it and was trying to decide whether getting town to agree to synchronized finishes was worth the effort since forcing it would require me to claim, but you're right that some amount of leadership does allow town an immense amount of power in eliminating scummy or PoE slots

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I only really said it because when I was doing my read through several people expressed dislike for the hydrae in the game. It was more as a way for those people to have agency in removing something they do not want in the game, but still going along with my plan.

right but 2/3 of those slots replaced out and the other is definitely dying before tomorrow so... like slots like Reck and UT might not love hydras but they're at least capable of reason so I'm not really worried about their sentiments

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Anyway my mason partner was arguing they didn't want to claim but if we are going for mass finishes night 1 then I would need to claim so people aren't wasting shots and I'm strongly inclined to claim the other mason as well. They also don't think the mass finishes plan will gain support so they will probably only out if the mass finishes plan gains traction

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Second team 4 should have been team 5

was playing around, originally was actually going to do teams of 5 people since I wanted to give some tprs room to work but actually the collective vigging power is probably stronger than anything any individual tpr has so maybe we even want to go down to groups of 3?

But if we're doing groups of 3 I'm going to get very insistent that we actually just lynch panzer today because that slot is never alive on day 2.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Why did you claim mason?

I was going to start pushing for the mass finishes plan today anyway and if it actually is going to be realized it is correct to claim mason because:
a) people cannot be using finishes on me
b) we need to get enough town cohesion that slots have the chance to respond to the intended vig shots/finishes
c) I don't really think you're the only slot that was thinking what you said on the last page and I don't want to find out there's more people thinking "herpaderp finishing hydras is protown" on night 1

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Why teams of 4? That gives scum within the teams plausible deniability to not do their power.

As I just said, the other concerns are:
a) I don't know the rest of town power
b) if scum have roleblockers then then can block finishes and prevent vigs

1 "overkill" on finishes makes it more certain and gives the strongest prs more room to work

but you're right that hard leashing everyone to groups of 3 also has strong merits and I'm open to that as well

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Also even with 10+ days remaining getting town to agree on 5 vig shots is already kinda a tall ask

It's also the case that in every group of 3, if there is one scum in the group of 3, then they just don't pull the trigger. If we do groups of 4 then it's more likely we get 3 towns and the vig shot actually lands

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Boon you just have to find a better vig shot for group 2

It's not even my group lol

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I was going to be that town cohesive leader I was townreading you and you were never on my first to die list of 6.
I am worried that scum will want to kill you so if you could not out your partner that would be swell.

Masons are op the later they get into game.

Yeah I like your posts this game but you were right, panzer would probably try to get some finishes on my slot if he isn't lynched today and I mostly just didn't want a protracted discussion of whether organized finishes was a "scum motivated" plan because that would just drag out the more interesting discussions to be had once it's in place

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I will say I was a bit ??? on the groupings and also the targets as well

What groupings would you suggest?

[Cena and Savage]

yeah, Cena and savage are probably scum.

They obviously know me and should know that my inactivity is never gonna stay that way.

I do think that ignoring how strong this plan is for town and focusing exclusively on the fact that you're in the PoE having done nothing townie and only scummy things doesn't help improve my read of you whatsoever

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I’m assuming that was for the finisher mechanic? I disagree at all that we should try and map that out. That’s so easily manipulateable by scum. We can do that in a few day phases, not now

Using it right now while the most town are still alive means that we have the most potential shots for it

Every time town dies either by mislynch or nightkill, that's finishers that we lose

So actually coming out strong and getting the most shots early in the game is quite pro-town

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

It also means that every single lurker slot can learn that they have to play day 1 otherwise they will die which is also good

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Who would be your top 5 vig targets?

the list was in a ballpark order of my reads, with panzer not included since I was considering forcing the day 1 lynch on him

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Speaking of

VOTE: Panzer

Other slots can still know they're going to die if groups can be agreed upon to execute finishes

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Your use of it night 5 is useless anyway if town splits all their finishes randomly across half the game or dies without using it

You have one use of it, night 1 is the best time to use it since that allows town to eliminate the most number of mislynches and create a gamestate with only readable players and town.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Are we going to kill people for not playing the game or for not being town

I don't think Panzer has done anything remotely townie and of slots with more than 1 post he's among the scummiest. I don't like him sitting on his policy lynch argument, I don't like his read of flubber or how he acted about his read of flubber, or for that matter any other post he's made this game.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I don't like the stuff he's done either, I just don't really expect him to actually say "Hey I rolled scum, why not immediately make myself top wagon"

I mean, I don't think him whining so much everyone who agreed with him replaced out of the game was a good strategy, but him choosing to play in a toxic manner does not in any way shape or form make his actions this game less scummy. Scum are very often the most toxic on this forum.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Townies die in the game of mafia. Winning mafia often involves getting rid of every single future mislynch as quickly as possible. As appealing as it would be to have a flawless game and wipe out the entire scum team night 1, in actuality what we should do is play to win the game, which is to give town the power to have only informative lynches and no unreadable lurker slots or players hiding behind toxicity.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

With 4 man teams we basically get 6 lynches by day 2.

With 3 man teams we get 8 lynches by day 2 but give any individual member of the scum team veto power so basically any vig team with a scum member will be guaranteed to only shoot lynchbait.

There's appeals to both routes but I think we hit more scum with the 4 man teams by denying the one-off scum members veto power

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Not really, if we put all the people who don't want to shoot or who won't agree into their own pool then we can mitigate that. I mean those people are much more likely to then be in the vig pool at that point over lurkers but that's the choice they can make. In any case I don't *really* see why more than 4 people would be opposed to vigging scum or lynch bait night 1

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Of course scum tries to fuck with the plan which is why I say groups of 4

and my plan doesn't require them to shoot who I want them to shoot, it requires them to get 3 people to agree with them on who to shoot

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Like let's say they have to "forego a night action." If they're targeting town they get free cover

If they're targeting scum they can just screw it up on purpose. And nobody is going to care because WIFOM whatever

And there's a billion other possibilities, what about redirecting? Or what if scum can just say "Aight, we're just gonna be invincible this night now get fucked"

All of these things will still be problems without coordination except if we don't coordinate town has much less information

this way people who are on track to get vigged can respond to the accusations to the people who will kill them

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Trng t sove a gme mehancay wth no infmation is lke trng t sove a mth pble wh hlf th letrs msing

It's a bastard game so mech information has no promise of being better tomorrow

You hard fighting this is not making it easier to townread you btw

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I love when I open the thread and find that like 30 of the last 50 posts are by the same person

I know right? Imagine what it'd be like if every slot that wasn't posting was flipped on day 2?

[Cena and Savage]

ali are you still sure chenni is town

[Cena and Savage]

Oh nevermind I see

[Cena and Savage]

I more am concerned that as town you wouldn't be excited to unload all the baggage and make the game readable

Like doing the opposite of what you would be doing as town doesn't make you town just because 'as scum there'd be a better play'; the concern is that town I would expect to have a specific attitude toward this plan and you aren't feeling that

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Panzer is trying to get force replaced just ignore him

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Panzer what's your meta read of lavender?

[Cena and Savage]

Just establishing that you have 0 read on most of the list, don't use meta, but are whining ... apparently about lack of access to the meta that you do not and have not used

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I mean one might say you were a whiny little bitch

I wouldn't say that

I'm a classy guy

But someone else might say that

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Oh you honestly care about vig shots but don't actually know who is playing the game?

Mmmkaay

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

oh hey, reported.

I'm glad you agree there should be moderator intervention in cases of toxicity.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Also how can I know who's playing the game when you're hiding your identity. Seems like a very weird line of questioning?

You just said you don't know who lavender is. You don't have reads on most of the list. You aren't trying to form reads on most of the list. You're arguing mech points without thinking of the consequences of the mech arguments. You're arguing basically you can't find 5 slots you think have a good chance of being scum this game and don't believe town CAN find five slots that need to die night 1. That's your argument.

You keep arguing I'm hiding my identity but I've already said no one in this list knows me other than Boon, who I think is scum anyway. You don't know me and you're not going to get to know me since regardless of your alignment this is the last game you will share with me. If I came out and was like "oh yeah I'm JasonT1981" that would make 0 fucking difference to you or your read of me. (I'm not). So all you are doing is whining over and over like a widdle baby

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

What kind of question is this lmao
Does Panzer play with Lavender?

He doesn't and that's exactly my point

I have already said he has no games with me

[Cena and Savage]

Literally the only person ruining this game is you

You went all in on policy lynch bullshit

You reevaluated nothing

You constantly insult everyone

You accuse people of cheating

You constantly insist almost nothing you do this game has anything to do with the game

But in all this you so totally lack self-awareness that you think the person who is just playing the game fucking normally is "cheesing" and "ruining" it?

The people who replaced out replaced out because you started throwing a tantrum and they no longer wanted to be in the game. I was the object of your tantrum but from what I can tell you would be throwing a tantrum here no matter what.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Your accusations of cheating are so empty and hollow that I really cannot fathom why people are like "but would he do this as scum?"

The question is, is there a reason to have Panzer alive going into night 1? And the answer to that question is no.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

UT is "not posting"? Do you think his 20 posts are lacking in content or what do you count as 'posting' at this point?

[Cena and Savage]

So you have one town read, a town read I agree with, but you think that telling 5 slots that aren't posting that if they don't start posting they're going to get mass vigged is a 'scummy' idea because you're satisfied with your ability to read this game based on the existing content?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Say you were scum that were aware you are getting lynched day 1. How would your reads list be at all different? Because it seems you have 3 total reads in the game, all of which were all abundantly evident from your posts screaming bloody murder about everything having to do with hydras

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I didn't accuse you of being scummy for having clear reads

And I wasn't trying to direct 3/4ths of night actions. For a plan that you so adamantly oppose you seem to understand basically nothing of what I said in it.

Part of the point even was that it isn't directed; I said that the teams should discuss amongst themselves about who the team believes they should shoot. That was the whole point of saying that team 5 would have a chance to redeem itself in shooting scum. This way each individual player in the game is saying their top two scumreads: the slot they want to lynch, and the slot they want to vig. And even if they complain about not being able to get the lynch they want, they only have to convince *two people* to join them on a vig shot, thus giving each individual town player much more incentive and ability to actually engage with the game.

If at end of day someone said they were going to shoot my mason partner, maybe I'd say something, but we're not even close to that yet. Otherwise I have given *input on who I would suggest* since (for instance) I don't think flubber is a particularly good shot and that's where I'd expect the Reck/UT team to push. But I wasn't like "nah you're not allowed to shoot flubber" because that would be anti-fun.

Oh wait, anti-fun? That's just you whining about a PLAN WHERE TOWN GETS TO VIG FIVE PEOPLE NIGHT ONE and saying Alisae is "cheating" because you're a big man concerned about the fun of this game

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Basically the plan is fucking dynamite and people whining about it are arguing a position I have a really hard time seeing coming from town given how fucking fantastic five vig shots would be for this game

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

And after you were pushed n tva you solved the game

It's almost like you play better and are more readable under pressure when town and shouldn't be given a free pass as scum so there's literally no reason not to push you regardless of your alignment

Also I learned at jupiter's that nips has above rand equity at reading you so if he thinks you're scum you might just be scum

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

I mean I just told boon my main but I refuse to publically out given how totally unjustifed the toxicity toward me was this game. I won't answer guesses so keep them to yourself thanks

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Also, Cena and Savage are hidden identities, but they were using meta earlier on me, weren’t they?

Lol, yeah, I’m with you lot. Down with Cena and Savage!!! (For me in a scum way, though)

Ok. Then why does this post exist? Because I assumed you knew who I was too and you feeding the fires here was nagl

[Cena and Savage]

Because you are a town god obviously :3

In any case I'd still say feeding the fires there is like a really stinky play given the tone of the game at that point especially if you know I push you at this point

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Well, I am a semi-new player hihi.
A lot of this is flying over me, I don't understand how the vig thing and team works...
Still nothing much from me soz.
Also, are we using the people leaving as an argument?

Ok Lavender

If we went with my teams, you'd first want to say: do you think there are two town out of flubber, doctor drew, and espressojet?

If no, suggest other players you townread you'd like on your team instead

If yes, then at night, you habe the ability to 'finish' a player right? And this finish counts as 1/3 of a vig shot

So in addition to the lynch today, you have a 1/3rd power vig shot that becomes a full vig shot if you can get 2 out o f espressojet, doctor drew, and flubber to vig the same person as you

so basically, are there two slots right now you think are scum, and who are they?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Hmmmm, 3 person per team is a no go, I'm not sure about rest of you, but I have some conditions on my rolecard that makes some finishers to fail, so I was thinking 4-5 person per team to ensure success of our vigs

Panzer is a bad lynch, no associations, we can't look for people, who pushed/defended him either due to how lynchbaity he is

Telling the thread you won't lynch lynchbait that isn't spewing reads is a great way to get absolutely no content from the half of the game doing nothing

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Maybe. But if there is a single scum protective, then splitting the finishes up over multiple nights would be draining town resources and ensuring more that only misvigs go through.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

oof, this game is faster than I thought it would be.

Can someone help 1/2 of this hydra out? Give me thoughts to tackle lul

Cena ily I'll be more active, but it's Monday and I'm doing class work.

-Savage

[Cena and Savage]

Though at this point I'd really like to see three outs on both of these slots ultimately.

Do you want the game to continue?

[Cena and Savage]

You realize that the mod just asked the entire thread to stop asking for replace outs, right?

So you want the game to continue and the way you achieve that is by breaking the rule that the mod literally just warned the entire thread about?

[Cena and Savage]

I want you two out as in vigged.

I mean they're called "finishes" and "outs" are usually "replace-outs" so that was a terrible way to write that sentence if that's actually what you meant.

Do you disbelieve my mason claim?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Like are you role-fishing my mason partner? If you're town you don't think scum just night kills me? What is the point of trying to argue for a vig shot on a claimed mason unless you

really

think I'm scum? Do you think scum just leaves me alive until my mason partner dies somehow and them I get to be mech town?

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Why do you want to be embarrassed by having your headassery get you all the way to endgame as conftown?

To be clear, my headassery that had you as town? In fact I think I'm the only person in this game that had you as town, basically?

Which of my reads do you disagree with specifically?

[Cena and Savage]

Why don't you break down how many of my reads you disagree with since you think I'm a big detriment to town

[Cena and Savage]

Okay how many of my other townreads do you disagree with?

[Cena and Savage]

Just know that if our reads match exactly, I still want you vigged.

Okay thanks for contributing to your argument that I'm toxic when you
a) don't know my reads
b) are arguing my reads are bad anyway
c) want to kill me even if you agree with the reads you don't know

yeah I'm really fucking toxic here, huh flubber?

[Cena and Savage]

Are you projecting or do you just have a victim narrative that nobody likes you?

I never called you toxic.

You just argued I made three people replace out when I made ZERO people replace out

Panzer is pushing a toxic bullshit lie and you just bought into it

KidAmn replaced out BECAUSE OF FUCKING PANZER as far as I can tell

Kublai Khan as far as I can tell replaced out 70% of Alisae and maybe like 20% me and 10% because of gamestate I'd guess

Scots replaced out because of my slot (because of things Savage said) but Panzer is trying to sell it as shit that I did

But hey congrats, you get your wish.

-JOHN FUCKING CENA

[Cena and Savage]

Hey, you know what they say. When someone says something you don't want to hear, look for a second opinion. I'm sure you can find a....7the opinion?? That says you aren't toxic.

You compromised the game and then tried to blame me for it

You tried to sell literally every replace out as due to me which is the most toxic shit I have seen in any game ever

I'd say you should feel ashamed but I'm pretty sure you are incapable of the emotion, so thankfully I'm just going to not have to deal with you ever again.

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

Literally nothing in KidAmn's iso says anything of the sort so unless you're scum with KidAmn you have been selling literally the most toxic lie I have ever seen in the game of mafia

Seriously you have compromised this game beyond reason

POLICY LYNCHES
ACCUSATIONS OF CHEATING
ANGLE SHOOTING REPLACE OUTS
EXTREME TOXICITY

KidAmn said jack shit about me

KK complained but was focused on Alisae/Insomnia

Scots did replace because of my slot but you selling it as THREE because of me is just hands down angle-shooting toxicity

This game is compromised

-JC

[Cena and Savage]

By the way, you could of prevented this pre-game. Let's not leave that out.

The hydras were in the game and you accepted your role PM and THEN you decided not to play the game