Mini Normal 2130: Mafia From Home [Game Over]

[Riabi]

That is what I did, yes.

So your towniness is contingent upon Churros's towniness? Or is it the other way around?

VOTE: Riabi Why did you avoid Zantetsu's wagon?

I didn't avoid anything. I thought I made my thought process clear. I wanted to wait until at least every slot had had a chance to claim before killing Zant. I would have been happy to vote for him once that happened.

[Battle Mage]

Norwegian is town - Day 2 interaction with Zant below:

Jesus Norwegian don't you see how Battle Mage is trying to pocket you here?

He goes from "Now that this is somewhat clarified" in justifying this bs claim to "Can someone explain the Mod error thing to me? Like, if the Mod made an error, does that mean Una is confirmed town? and Luca-72offsuit confirmed neighbours?". Clearly he is just throwing out whatever sentiment he thinks will justify his actions.

I dunno, maybe he is just reaction testing but ... jesus. This game.

I also find this: "He is pocketing you, Norwee" a weird stance to have. I think you’re just desperate to discredit his claim seeing as there is no real way out of this. Because neighbors already claimed, and having a traffic PT makes sense in a setup with a hood.

It would be a weird stance if it wasn't true. I mean it's right there in front of you.

I was pushed as scum by both Battle Mage and Una on day 1, yet now Battle Mage is apparently so eager to pocket me?
Well i'm honored if nothing else.

How do you explain his 180 on you then?

OK I'm done now. I am irritated by what BM has done but I think I have to get my emotions in check because my pointing out every scummy thing BM has done is not going to change the outcome and is just noise at this point. I am so annoyed though. Urgh.

You said you thought he was town earlier, now you’re pointing out all the scummy things he’s done? Ok...

Read my posts Norwegian. I said he might be town. Do you understand the difference between a statement of fact and a statement where numerous possibilities are enumerated? I am assuming you do but your posts don't always indicate that.

How do you explain his 180 on you then?

Beats me, why don't you ask him yourself?

Why are you deferring to Battle Mage instead of answering the question?

If he is town then the game should be rather simple though.

How so?

Because that means we lynch you, because you are scum.

That doesn't make the game simple though. There's a lot more game left after D2.

[Battle Mage]

Zantetsu is town

what did he claim?

If Zantetsu flips town BP should be turbo-lynched by the way, I'm not accepting any excuses when I actually went out of my way to ask him to confirm things and he gave it a cold shoulder.

I don't even remember this - what did you ask me to confirm??

[iDanyboy]

I think the best bet is a Lucas lynch, VOTE: Lucas. I’m pretty sure this is scum with the claims we have.

[Battle Mage]

Main interesting early interaction from Zant-scum on Day 1 was to Anotora and Riabi. Anotora below:

VOTE: Anotora

Nice to meet you too.

So, Zantetsu, you knew that it might be a joke but kept rolefishing anyways? I don't like it.

Where was I rolefishing?

I didn't

know

it was a joke, I thought it was a joke. But since I didn't

know

I was going to let the players involved speak for themselves.

Also you've already accepted profii's claim so from your perspective there is no need for any roles to be fished.

So what is your point again exactly?

A bit tetchy?

Here is the vote progression on proffi:

Una (L-6)
Una - Luca (L-5)
Una - Luca- Norwegian (L-4)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora (L-3)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anatora - Exig (L-3)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 1)
Luca - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 2)
Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 3)
Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 4)


Several people have used false reasoning based on incorrect vote counts on the profii wagon:

- Battle Mage falsely claimed L-1 and asked for a claim from profii
- profii answered the claim without ever questioning the need to since he was not actually at L-1
- Anotora falsely implied that profii was in danger of being hammered by me when profii was actually at L-3 and used that as justification to get off of the profii wagon

I really don't know what to make of all of this. Any of the three could be using intentional miscounts of the votes to advance some agenda but very unlikely all three are (which would require all to be scum).

My read of profii is "too scummy to be scum" at this point. His flailing in posts 134 - 201 were very scummy but his subsequent posts have been a lot better. The good news is that wagon progression I think gives us a lot of data going forward.

At this point I'm not on board with a lynch of profii or UnaBombaH today specifically because of their 'weird associations' as Luca put it.

Lists 3 scum - me, Profii and Anotora. Anotora-scum?

Do you think I'm scum?

1: You answered my question with another question.
2: That question doesn't answer my own question.

OK well the answer is, I am not entirely sure. There are 10 other players in the game I could focus on besides profii and Una and I expect to change my focus frequently going forward. Furthermore, if I have suspicions of players it is hardly to my benefit to pre-state them as you are requesting I do and if you think I am town I don't even see why you would want me to do that. At this point I have a town read on you but I think you have a scum read on me.

I had you as leaning town until this post. Isn't the entire point of the game to discuss who we have suspicions of and why? If you were to place all the players in this game on a spectrum from for-sure-scum to for-sure-town, can you tell us who would be closest to for-sure-scum, even if they aren't very close?

Sure I can. But that's not the question you asked previously, or at least that's not what I thought you were asking. The question "where EXACTLY do you want to focus" is a very different question to me than "what are your reads". The former implies that I can only answer with certainty and like I said I do not have certainty at this point.

Anyway, all that aside here are the players I am leaning town on:

Luca
Norwegian
Egix
UnaBombaH
profii

Here are the players I am leaning scum on:

Anotora
Battle Mage
Churros

The rest are basically null.

Anotora or Churros scum here? Cases on both (as he concedes below) are really weak, so looks like scum showboating with suspicion of a buddy, without actually trying to get them lynched.

I think it's pretty unlikely there wouldn't be at least 1 scum in your townleans Zantetsu. Which leads to my next point, you give townreads away too easily. That still doesn't mean i believe you are likely to be mafia yourself. I just don't agree with you.

Just looking at the profii wagon.

I think you and Luca are town because all your reasoning was good on the way to getting profii to L-2. He was acting super scummy once the wagon was on him, he was putting out every contradictory reason possible to save himself, but then when he started making better posts, you guys backed down in a way that seems very "appropriately cautious". profii didn't claim a power role which would have been the logical thing for scum!profii to do if he really thought his lynch was imminent. He didn't even double check his vote count and notice that he wasn't really at L-1. All of this adds up to a town lean on all three players for me.

egix hasn't posted a lot but I have liked his through process in the posts he has made. He got on the profii wagon at a time that I thought it made sense. And all of his subsequent posts I just liked. But the amount of content there is not enough for me to feel as confident as I do about the others in my town list.

UnaBombaH I have a theory about. Maybe my theory is wrong. But he has said things. I can point them out but really they are there for anyone re-reading his ISO to see.

Anotora I am weakly scum reading most because it is so hard for me to believe that They really believed Saudade's mason claim, then believed profii's fake counter-claim. That seems disingenuous. Also the fact that They so transparently followed Luca and Norwegian onto and off of the profii wagon. And finally, the casting shade so heavily at me - claiming I was rolefishing, but then not even caring that Battle Mage fished a claim out of profii when profii was not even L-1. But Anotora also has a very low post count and low content production so this is admittedly a pretty weak read.

Battle Mage it just feels inconsistent to me that he'd put as much effort into reading and forming theories and then not even vote count well enough to see that profii really was at L-2. Also I can't shake the feeling that Battle Mage is playing scum like I played it the first few times - just really try-hard and casting shade everywhere. And all those smileys ...

And Churros I didn't like how he immediately town read Norwegian for almost no reason. But this is just gut feel and he hasn't posted hardly anything so super weak read here.

[Battle Mage]

I think the best bet is a Lucas lynch, VOTE: Lucas. I’m pretty sure this is scum with the claims we have.

What about your perspective on his behaviour in the game, and in your private conversations?

[iDanyboy]

From what I remember, I didn’t like his early posts. I’m at work now though so I can’t post quotes right now.

[iDanyboy]

He did not talk to me in the neighbourhood last night.

[Battle Mage]

On re-read, Zant's behaviour to Riabi stands out much more:

Because of my absence, I'm a bit rusty, and I'm not sure I understand the logic of hardclaiming a Mason so early. Would someone mind explaining that to me?

Until I have a better understanding of that

VOTE: Saudade

Is that the third vote on a shitwagon?
VOTE: Riabi

There were two posts on that wagon already though. Why did you pick Riabi to vote? If Riabi hand't voted, would you have voted either of the other players on the sh**wagon? If Riabi leaves the wagon, will you vote one of the other two?

Defending Riabi.

Also Riabi - Norwegian is not only voting you, he's actively encouraging others to vote you. You have not even interacted with him. Why not?

Coaching Riabi.

Here is the vote progression on proffi:

Una (L-6)
Una - Luca (L-5)
Una - Luca- Norwegian (L-4)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora (L-3)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anatora - Exig (L-3)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 1)
Luca - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 2)
Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 3)
Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 4)


Several people have used false reasoning based on incorrect vote counts on the profii wagon:

- Battle Mage falsely claimed L-1 and asked for a claim from profii
- profii answered the claim without ever questioning the need to since he was not actually at L-1
- Anotora falsely implied that profii was in danger of being hammered by me when profii was actually at L-3 and used that as justification to get off of the profii wagon

I really don't know what to make of all of this. Any of the three could be using intentional miscounts of the votes to advance some agenda but very unlikely all three are (which would require all to be scum).

My read of profii is "too scummy to be scum" at this point. His flailing in posts 134 - 201 were very scummy but his subsequent posts have been a lot better. The good news is that wagon progression I think gives us a lot of data going forward.

At this point I'm not on board with a lynch of profii or UnaBombaH today specifically because of their 'weird associations' as Luca put it.

No comment whatsoever on Riabi in terms of suspiciousness, despite being very suspicious of me for being the L-1 vote, and Riabi was L-2.

Looker, please give at least one reason why anyone should be voting Riabi.

Defending Riabi.

Do you think I'm scum?

1: You answered my question with another question.
2: That question doesn't answer my own question.

OK well the answer is, I am not entirely sure. There are 10 other players in the game I could focus on besides profii and Una and I expect to change my focus frequently going forward. Furthermore, if I have suspicions of players it is hardly to my benefit to pre-state them as you are requesting I do and if you think I am town I don't even see why you would want me to do that. At this point I have a town read on you but I think you have a scum read on me.

I had you as leaning town until this post. Isn't the entire point of the game to discuss who we have suspicions of and why? If you were to place all the players in this game on a spectrum from for-sure-scum to for-sure-town, can you tell us who would be closest to for-sure-scum, even if they aren't very close?

Sure I can. But that's not the question you asked previously, or at least that's not what I thought you were asking. The question "where EXACTLY do you want to focus" is a very different question to me than "what are your reads". The former implies that I can only answer with certainty and like I said I do not have certainty at this point.

Anyway, all that aside here are the players I am leaning town on:

Luca
Norwegian
Egix
UnaBombaH
profii

Here are the players I am leaning scum on:

Anotora
Battle Mage
Churros

The rest are basically null.

Again, Riabi conspicuous by absence from either list given the amount of effort Zant put into defending and coaching him early on.

I think it's pretty unlikely there wouldn't be at least 1 scum in your townleans Zantetsu. Which leads to my next point, you give townreads away too easily. That still doesn't mean i believe you are likely to be mafia yourself. I just don't agree with you.

Just looking at the profii wagon.

I think you and Luca are town because all your reasoning was good on the way to getting profii to L-2. He was acting super scummy once the wagon was on him, he was putting out every contradictory reason possible to save himself, but then when he started making better posts, you guys backed down in a way that seems very "appropriately cautious". profii didn't claim a power role which would have been the logical thing for scum!profii to do if he really thought his lynch was imminent. He didn't even double check his vote count and notice that he wasn't really at L-1. All of this adds up to a town lean on all three players for me.

egix hasn't posted a lot but I have liked his through process in the posts he has made. He got on the profii wagon at a time that I thought it made sense. And all of his subsequent posts I just liked. But the amount of content there is not enough for me to feel as confident as I do about the others in my town list.

UnaBombaH I have a theory about. Maybe my theory is wrong. But he has said things. I can point them out but really they are there for anyone re-reading his ISO to see.

Anotora I am weakly scum reading most because it is so hard for me to believe that They really believed Saudade's mason claim, then believed profii's fake counter-claim. That seems disingenuous. Also the fact that They so transparently followed Luca and Norwegian onto and off of the profii wagon. And finally, the casting shade so heavily at me - claiming I was rolefishing, but then not even caring that Battle Mage fished a claim out of profii when profii was not even L-1. But Anotora also has a very low post count and low content production so this is admittedly a pretty weak read.

Battle Mage it just feels inconsistent to me that he'd put as much effort into reading and forming theories and then not even vote count well enough to see that profii really was at L-2. Also I can't shake the feeling that Battle Mage is playing scum like I played it the first few times - just really try-hard and casting shade everywhere. And all those smileys ...

And Churros I didn't like how he immediately town read Norwegian for almost no reason. But this is just gut feel and he hasn't posted hardly anything so super weak read here.

This is pretty bad - gives reads on everyone on Proffi wagon... except Riabi for some reason.

If there’s a vig you’re the ideal target anyway given your claim.

I’m actually wondering if Profii/Una is s/s after all. Such weird interactions.

Early game Luca irked me

Right now I'm just nodding my head vigorously

I recommend to include Riabi on the list as well, his Saudade read isn't consistent, it kinda fluctuates from "must lynch" to "I want him to talk" with no reason.

It's not actually inconsistent. I think he's anti-town, and that's enough reason in my book to lynch someone early, regardless of alignment. That said, that doesn't mean I won't also vote to lynch someone I find worse/more scummy.

Riabi you've been popping in with very noncommittal statements all game.

You need to post a reads list and give some real original thoughts for your reads.

Some more coaching. It's almost cute...

[Battle Mage]

Ok so my reads list so far

Likely scum:
Riabi
Eve
Churros

idanyboy - Neighbour, probably him or Luca scum
Luca Blight - Neighbour, probably him or Danyboy scum

Neutral:
Looker

Likely town:
NorwegianboyEE
Egix96

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ay lmao.
VOTE: Riabi
Let's vote scum!Riabi and see which of Luca/Idanyboi appears to be the most eager to lynch him.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Black Mage, who did you target tonight?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Battle Mage*

[NorwegianboyEE]

Btw Churros i'm going to state this for the record. I do not buy your "too scummy to be scum" townread on Riabi.

[Battle Mage]

Black Mage, who did you target tonight?

Racist....

White Norwegian, it's probably better to say my result first - I got no result. Initially wondered if it's cause I targeted someone with immunity (hence thinking about value of a mass-claim), but more likely a mafia roleblocker targeted me.

[Churros]

Firstly, I never said Riabi is "too scummy to be scum". Don't put words in my mouth norwe, even if you're a cute cinamonroll. I said that the way he wanted to wait on Zantetsu but trying to understand the gamestate rather than trying to pivot on Battle Mage was towny. I just had ISO'ed Zantetsu on night and I left his ISO still thinking Riabi is probably town over the brackets of [Looker, Anotora] or [Luca, 72].

[Churros]

Second, Egix is scum.

[Battle Mage]

Second, Egix is scum.

...Ok well that changes things somewhat.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alright Battle Mage. That's actually believable. Because Una dying instead of you made me a bit suspicious. But if they had roleblocker then that opens the possibility for them to kill Una while leaving you alive.

[Churros]

ok kidding Egix is:

Spoiler:

confirmed town.

did you heart beat a little faster Egix??

[Battle Mage]

hang on, if Egix was scum fakeclaiming, why wouldn't he just kill you last night? seems like a suicidal play...

[Eve]

norwee and battle mage seem like trustworthy individuals

i didn't know Egix had claimed FN - i voted him based off the final vc from yesterday

[Battle Mage]

ok kidding Egix is:

Spoiler:

confirmed town.

did you heart beat a little faster Egix??

you had me!

[Eve]

some of those Riabi-Zentetsu interactions look almost too obvious but i've learnt my lesson from yesterday

VOTE: Riabi

[Battle Mage]

Alright Battle Mage. That's actually believable. Because Una dying instead of you made me a bit suspicious. But if they had roleblocker then that opens the possibility for them to kill Una while leaving you alive.

yeah I guess, although it could also just be that the person I targeted is immune! Which feels more likely to be a scum ability than town, although I'd want to see the claim before judging.