Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[Paragon]

Farside, please elaborate.

Lilith, Knightmare was the first to propose a strategy. Iconeum voiced opinion when it had already been established that the consensus was that we shouldn't mass claim, so it's more of any unnecessary contribution which is easy for scum to comment on.

[farside22]

Farside, please elaborate.

Lilith, Knightmare was the first to propose a strategy. Iconeum voiced opinion when it had already been established that the consensus was that we shouldn't mass claim, so it's more of any unnecessary contribution which is easy for scum to comment on.

You ignored large parts of the game and focused on one player while saying nothing about anyone else or the wagon on Votato

[Paragon]

i played a handful of games on another site more than a decade ago. I was not by any means an expert, and probably not even good. I'm starting totally fresh in terms of game-knowledge, effectively. All of the knowledge I have is from reading the wiki and from the one game I started prior to this one (again, still ongoing, can't really say much).
I thought I was having some interactions with people, but if you disagree, sorry - I'll try to step it up. I wanted to throw a few thoughts out there and see how people reacted. I'll contribute more later on but mostly want to read for now and get a feel for the game. I have been contributing my thoughts as I have them, but I'm not yet confident in any of my reads. I feel like its still pretty early anyway to have people locked in as either town or scum. As the game progresses I'll probably get more vocal and more confident.

The reason i dont see KM as scummy for talking about the massclaim is that KM is new. I also have some experience with KM to go off of, and don't read him as scum. The rest of you should know better than beating a dead horse about the massclaim.

This reads as pretty genuine.

[Paragon]

Farside, please elaborate.

Lilith, Knightmare was the first to propose a strategy. Iconeum voiced opinion when it had already been established that the consensus was that we shouldn't mass claim, so it's more of any unnecessary contribution which is easy for scum to comment on.

You ignored large parts of the game and focused on one player while saying nothing about anyone else or the wagon on Votato

I haven't read the last 10 pages truth be told. I tried but my eyes kept glossing over, so I decided to ISO Iconeum since his name came up recently.

[lilith2013]

Farside, please elaborate.

Lilith, Knightmare was the first to propose a strategy. Iconeum voiced opinion when it had already been established that the consensus was that we shouldn't mass claim, so it's more of any unnecessary contribution which is easy for scum to comment on.

Uh....

1) weren’t you and eyestott already talking about massclaim strategies before Knightmare?
2) Iconeum wasn’t in the thread at that time so of course he didn’t give opinions on it in real time. I don’t think it’s scummy to give opinions on something that’s already happened that you’re catching up on, even if it’s unnecessary. Why do you think it’s scummy?
3) I agree that him having not much else in his ISO is push-worthy but if you go by that then so are several others, so why him specifically?

[SirCakez]

Paragon is right Ico is scummy

[Something_Smart]

I think you’re giving too much leeway to “newb” him when he clearly has the ability to analyze wagons and also knows more mafia terminology than I do. Also: Engagement is not dependent on experience. I’m not even talking about pushing, but as a newbie I was completely capable of holding conversations with people in the thread and asking them what their reads were and I’d assume any newbie would at least be able to do that. Votato seems capable enough of throwing out reads once there’s votes on him, why not post it any time before that and try to interact with people to solidify those reads?

Engagement may not be dependent on experience, but lack of experience can definitely explain lack of engagement.

Capable and willing are two different things. Just because he can doesn't mean he thinks he should, and I think it's reasonable for someone new to the site to have the mindset that the important things are having a vote on your top scumread and being able to explain your reads, and actually pressing people to read them better is optional.

[Something_Smart]

This reads as pretty genuine.

+1

[Paragon]

Iconeum isn't necessarily

scummy

for it, I think you're misinterpreting my point. My concern lies with that being the majority of his content so far, as in he's commented on easy to comment on stuff like the mass claim thing and talking about the philosophy of whether a scum lynch in day 1 is a good idea.

Independently speaking, mentioning the mass claim is NAI. I'm voting him because I want to see more content/reads from him.

[farside22]

This reads as pretty genuine.

+1

It's pretty NAI in my opinion.

[Something_Smart]

Updated townlean cloud: {ABR, lilith, farside, votato, Paragon, Vecna, chkflip, SirCakez, Firebringer}.

On reread I'm not really sure why I put eyestott in it and I don't feel that way anymore.

[lilith2013]

I think you’re giving too much leeway to “newb” him when he clearly has the ability to analyze wagons and also knows more mafia terminology than I do. Also: Engagement is not dependent on experience. I’m not even talking about pushing, but as a newbie I was completely capable of holding conversations with people in the thread and asking them what their reads were and I’d assume any newbie would at least be able to do that. Votato seems capable enough of throwing out reads once there’s votes on him, why not post it any time before that and try to interact with people to solidify those reads?

Engagement may not be dependent on experience, but lack of experience can definitely explain lack of engagement.

Capable and willing are two different things. Just because he can doesn't mean he thinks he should, and I think it's reasonable for someone new to the site to have the mindset that the important things are having a vote on your top scumread and being able to explain your reads, and actually pressing people to read them better is optional.

Have you read farside’s 735? Her points are a lot more coherent than mine on this.

[farside22]

Iconeum isn't necessarily

scummy

for it, I think you're misinterpreting my point. My concern lies with that being the majority of his content so far, as in he's commented on easy to comment on stuff like the mass claim thing and talking about the philosophy of whether a scum lynch in day 1 is a good idea.

Independently speaking, mentioning the mass claim is NAI. I'm voting him because I want to see more content/reads from him.

Do you have any other scum reads?

[votato]

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

farside, so far it seems that you've read everything I've said as scum or NAI. could you be tunneling? What do you think the thought process of town!votato is? what do you think the thought process of scum!votato is?

[Something_Smart]

Have you read farside’s 735? Her points are a lot more coherent than mine on this.

Seems like mostly calling out weak play and not explaining why that weak play is more likely to be from scum.

[votato]

@farside, could you vote for nightmare please?

I think Knightmare is scum,I don't see it coming from scum. It's actually NAI, I have seen a few players try to do things like this but unfortunately it is more coming from town thinking then scum trying because 95% of the time people find it scummy to do mass claim.

EBWOP:

Scum reads:

Not enough to say either way:
Iconeum
SS
Votato
Vecna
Firebringer
eyestott

Scum reads:
Albert B. Rampage
SirCakez

A few spots haven't even really posted. SS hasn't said much other then defending himself and I would like to see more thoughts about the game. Votato I go back and forth on. Firebringer hasn't towned it up and eyestott hasn't said anything that isn't NAI,

Well its good to have a list that has odds of finding scum reduced.

In no order at all. I either have no read, a gut read or scum read on the following players.

Albert B. Rampage
Iconeum
votato
Something_Smart
DonCorleone
eyestott

VOTE: abr

why u townreading cakez?

Its a light town read. His point on SS seemed a bit forced but i liked that he doesnt care if people fight with him. Id still keep an eye on him. See if he scum hunts more and whom he pushes.
My biggest negative is he didn't say anything about votato.

so far it seems like you have way to many scum reads (isnt that usually a scum tell) and also no town reads (isnt that also generally bad form?). Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on your reads?

[Something_Smart]

It's pretty NAI in my opinion.

Town are generally more likely to admit fault and try to change their behavior, whereas scum are more likely to be defensive and argue that they weren't doing anything wrong imo.

[votato]

Do you scumread ABR lilith?

If not, then why is that post wishywashy?

He doesn’t actually take a stance on Iconeum; and he says he’ll keep his vote on chkflip but has not engaged with or tried to push that slot for a while. He’s also incorrect about chkflip’s vote being a “weak ABR vote” and he should know because he was previously in a very long-winded back and forth with chkflip accusing votato of being ABR’s partner, so he should know what chkflip’s reasons for voting ABR are.

VOTE: votato

Lilth can be town leader.

I'm leaning towards farside being scum, and using this and other posts to try and buddy with town!lilith

[SirCakez]

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

What does this mean?

[Paragon]

Iconeum isn't necessarily

scummy

for it, I think you're misinterpreting my point. My concern lies with that being the majority of his content so far, as in he's commented on easy to comment on stuff like the mass claim thing and talking about the philosophy of whether a scum lynch in day 1 is a good idea.

Independently speaking, mentioning the mass claim is NAI. I'm voting him because I want to see more content/reads from him.

Do you have any other scum reads?

No scumreads per se, but I dislike ABR, Cakez, and votato (more for earlier play) to some degree.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bro

[lilith2013]

It's pretty NAI in my opinion.

Town are generally more likely to admit fault and try to change their behavior, whereas scum are more likely to be defensive and argue that they weren't doing anything wrong imo.

So are you saying votato’s post was genuine based on his tone or based on probability?

[Something_Smart]

So are you saying votato’s post was genuine based on his tone or based on probability?

All reads are based on probability, so that one.

[lilith2013]

Wow

[votato]

im starting to think that theres one scum in {lilith, paragon, farside} based on recent interactions.

What does this mean?

the three of them are having an interaction I'm reading as being partially forced. I don't think its just a disagreement between townies. I think one is probably scum. Too much infighting, not enough attempt to collaborate. Especially from farside, again strengthening my growing SR on her. the read on their interaction is gut, I can't really point to anything specific in the text yet.