Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's an appeal to emotion DC copied from town because he has a lot of experience; I have a lot of experience too.

DC isn't an appeal to emotion player, DC is a rational thinker trying to fake having normal human emotions playing scum. Some Dexter level shit.

Where's the appeal to emotion then? Show me.

I'm sort of a leading expert on emotional appeals.

DC has capitulated on being able to manipulate me off of him and is resorting to try to manipulate the town into not lynching him today.

Normal town would feel the pressure of 5 votes, their main scumread blowing up / flailing, and never give up their scumread of me, like you correctly pointed out.

The feeling you get of being falsely accused is so powerful and hardcoded into your DNA that you will confbias yourself to never give that up.

But DC is trying to avoid 1v1 me during the day because as soon as he flips, the rest of the team has 3 guns pointed at a small POE list of likely scumbuddies.

More strategic to kill me tonight, but what's the play to move forward onto another mislynch when I'm so gung ho on him?

"I will vig him tonight and he can vig me and the problem will take care of itself". Demonstrably bad for the town if he's scum, doubly so if it's TvT

just like he said he thinks it is.

I have a few questions for everyone:

1) If there was a scum team, and DC was one of the three scum, do you think DC would be their leader / their best asset / the most influential player in their team?
2) If you were falsely accused by me on a death tunnel and you were town, would you turn down the chance to 1v1 me?
3) If you were scum being death tunneled by me, how would you consider gaslighting me?

DC's entire defense appeal is "don't listen to loud man shouting" and trying to ignore me. Maria seems to be advocating for this indirectly to save DC. Cakez is already committed to DC's side.

They are in a fucking tough position if I'm right. If I'm wrong, do you think I'm wrong about them

all

and that farside is scum? I can't see it

at all.

I could write an entire case about farside obvtowning this game, put aside the fact that I've had the exact same reactions as her for most of the game.

When you look at the story unfolding between Maria, Cakez, me and DC, take away the drama, and you are left with a couple facts.

1) DC derailed Maria
2) I was weak, not controlling the thread at all, not derailing anyone, and laying low
3) I realize what's happening and vow to lynch DC D1
4) DC leaves the thread with cakez for 2 hours, all three are gone (maria, cakez, DC) and the rest of the town is down to lynch DC
5) They come back coordinated, and now try to derail DC

I had accurate predictions that lillith and farside were town and they unvoted me to reconsider. Because they are thinking about their endgame, they are strategizing for a stronger position and more control. DC is accusing me of control, but I have not been controlling until I was absolutely sure of my shot, and yes, I will die for what I believe. I will die for this town and my beliefs and we will all win.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

Because scum would instead think about their endgame, strategizing for a stronger position and more control.**

Farside and Lillith seem genuinely unsure of themselves and using critical thinking with real doubts.

Cakez/DC if you look at their iso are telling you what to think. And Maria is in her own world.

[votato]

I really dont like the last two sentences of that ABR post.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I really dont like the last two sentences of that ABR post.

I can show you many town games I played with similar things I said, I'm emotional with mafia.

[Albert B. Rampage]

My scum game is super obvious.

Exibit A: viewtopic.php?p=6639013#p6639013

Exibit B: viewtopic.php?p=6488455#p6488455

Exibit C: viewtopic.php?p=6847119#p6847119

Look at any of my games it's painfully obvious the difference in passion between town and scum, I can't fake it because it's all real emotions.

[Something_Smart]

1) If there was a scum team, and DC was one of the three scum, do you think DC would be their leader / their best asset / the most influential player in their team?

Probably not, but it's hard to judge someone's behavior in the scum PT from their behavior in the main thread.

2) If you were falsely accused by me on a death tunnel and you were town, would you turn down the chance to 1v1 me?

Probably not, but it depends if I thought you were being genuine. I certainly wouldn't death tunnel you back.

3) If you were scum being death tunneled by me, how would you consider gaslighting me?

I wouldn't gaslight you, I would just patiently argue that the things you suspected me for weren't really scumtells. In some cases I'd probably be right.

[votato]

actually with his new avatar suddenly im scumreading ABR. vote ABR.

[votato]

honestly how could you get a new avatar, acknowledging the flaws in the previous one, and still not be wearing a hat?

[SirCakez]

Albert if Don is town who is scum?
btw I can't believe you changed your avatar

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert if Don is town who is scum?
btw I can't believe you changed your avatar

Why can't you believe it?

[SirCakez]

Because you've had it since I joined MS

[chkflip]

After much deliberation... I still think Don is scum.

[farside22]

Spoiler:

3am catch up time here we go

And only 4 pages in 1 day? Guess I'll have to put some life into this. Don't expect too much from me though I'm not that impressive.

MariaR is being lowkey cute and as much as I hate it I think this may make her scum

I actually really like eyesctott they're coming back from a break or something if I read that correctly and the tone of there posts is really light and relaxed. Like they're just kinda here ya know? I don't see any agenda in their posting. So that raises the question is scum sitting back and just letting these wagons go?

Maybe. Might I suggest a Vecna Farside or Lilth wagon in the meantime? Lets put some life into this game!

I think this post is either (1) town realising that scum are happy with the current wagons because they’re not being voted or (2) scum who has a buddy under suspicion and who is trying to break up the gamestate through advancing the line that scum are happy with the gamestate and therefore a new wagon should happen

Please let me know what question if yours I'm not directly answering so you can stop using buzzwords. That'd be lovely

Hmm, maybe Maria is town

I AM SO CONFUSED RIGHT NOW

eyestort, they are both similar but also vastly different. Both net a modicum of information that is arguably useful but also not very useful; however, both are bad because mass claiming is bad and you should feel bad for letting it snowball to this. I hope this helps.

I'm crying now
does that make you feel good?

VOTE: eyetott

That's not a town mindset, it's scum trying to scare town.

I think there's a very real possibility Knight is scum trying to force a massclaim so he and his buddies can kill all the guns N1
VOTE: Knightmare491

Posts like these

Cakez, why were you posting about eyestott instead of getting involved in Lilith/Maria?

VoteCount 1.6

eyestott [4] - Knightmare491, SirCakez, Firebringer, Albert B. Rampage
Knightmare491 [2] - eyestott, DonCorleone
votato [4] - lilith2013, farside22, Iconeum, chkflip
Iconeum [1] - votato
farside22 [1] - Vecna
Firebringer [1] - MariaR

Not Voting [1]

- Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

Votato has been a wagon almost all game, and I think they've made some pretty genuine posting. It also has 2 people I'm fine with voting at the moment. Shockingly, they're mostly townread (Lilth and farside) so this'll at least get someone to start talking. As for Eye, I need to go iso them because I'm pretty sure I skipped the point of the game where they posted at all.

*be mariaR
*rep into a game where your slot is under mild suspicion at best
*decide to instigate a fight with two relatively consensus townreads
*????
*PROFIT

I actually really like eyesctott they're coming back from a break or something if I read that correctly and the tone of there posts is really light and relaxed. Like they're just kinda here ya know? I don't see any agenda in their posting. So that raises the question is scum sitting back and just letting these wagons go?

Maybe. Might I suggest a Vecna Farside or Lilth wagon in the meantime? Lets put some life into this game!

I agree with her take on the gamestate even if I more or less disagree with her reads. I think Lilith is pretty hard town now, Vecna could be scum and you’re(farside) still more on the side of town than on the side of scum when I balance it

Lilith I feel is forcing her emotions. When I look at her iso I see so many tone shifts. That in and of itself isn't scummy. But when it looks like a pattern that's when it becomes a problem. Whenever she was pushing a scumread it got aggro and whenever it was not it went to friendly/causal. Combine that with the biggest iso in the game and I don't really see strong reasons to townread her. (I could look into her votes but I was being lazy) I think she's a fine vote because she's building up her own advantage. I could quote posts but I don't think this is really shocking info.

Farside, on the other hand, is a really popular townread and I find that super interesting! I can't really get to point A to point B with her. Like I think she has her expectations super high with certain things and not with others. The Cakez read that I brought up for example before. Also check her 2 reads lists in 411 and /781 I didn't see it at first, but really I think she's just trying to shift her gameplay to fit the currant situation. Whatever that may be. I don't see towny solving or good follow up to her scumhunting.

I think this is a really weird decision for scum to push on these two simultaneously as opposed to going for any of the like half of the slots in the game. I don’t think her Lilith take is good overall because I think Lilith has been genuinely trying to solve in ISO but I remember not thinking Lilith was that towny early and disliking her S_S push, so I can jive with Maria thinking this here

THE DOUBLE SCUM TAG TEAM OH BABY I LOVE THIS. Live interaction is my stick lets go, sweeties,

Maria being aggressive and not appeasing

Please let me know what question if yours I'm not directly answering so you can stop using buzzwords. That'd be lovely

Maria being sarky and not appeasing

See I've never dodged a question in my life. If there's ever a question I don't wanna answer I'll tell you. So if you think I dodged a question point it out to me. Saying people dodge questions and thinking no one is gonna bring it up is stupid that's like mafia 101. Just because you're not satisfied with the answer you're given does not mean someone is dodging.

Maria being aggressive again. Like I said, I think Maria being ~*sweet*~ is probably a reasonably strong indicator that she’s scum and I wouldn’t describe her play as ~*sweet*~ here

I wanted to go over a few discrepancies instead of arguing pages of crap in this game.
The reason I started suspected Don is his read on Maria went back and forth during the game part.
He never said anything about the discussion about lilith and Maria when it occured and he didn't respond to anything till I called him out.
He also cast suspicion on Cakez for not discussing anything about what happened between lilith/maria (again neither did he).
Everything he called Maria town for he has called me scum about.
Maria hasn't tried to sort anyone.
Providing irrational behavior.
I wanted to prove that Don's reads were fake in all of this. He basically calls 1 player town for exactly the same behavior lilith and myself just did but it's town for maria.
How is that possible?
How can you declare that to be town when she has sorted no one in the game and she continues to be a town read?

He is also discreting ABR in many post about his ability to scum hunt. That ABR should be shot by him even though he is town reading ABR. Accuing ABR of tearing down the game. Did he forget there were only 3 town gun players in the game?
How is any of that protown thinking? How is that trying to actually scum hunt to win?
That is why my vote is where it is and why it hasn't moved.

[chkflip]

...yeah!

[DonCorleone]

Is it possible to be more arrogant than ABR? I suppose the answer is theoretically yes but goddamn it’s been a while since I saw it first hand.

I don’t know if I can be bothered to deal with this or not, it’s mostly just pissing me off and that makes me a not very fun person to play with.

ABR — get the fuck over yourself in the future. You can’t read for shit as evidenced by the fact that you’re pushing me as scum here. Blablabla, emotional manipulation, I’m sure that’s the line you’ll take here when responding to this. You’ll be half right too, in that your case has provoked emotion in me and that I’m hoping to make blind people see, but there’s little hope of that isn’t there?

[votato]

yeah if you guys are town you both do owe it to your wincon to keep cooler heads - notice how once people got so butthurt the game completely died. or maybe it was ABRs new avatar that caused it.

[DonCorleone]

Normal town would feel the pressure of 5 votes, their main scumread blowing up / flailing, and never give up their scumread of me, like you correctly pointed out.

The feeling you get of being falsely accused is so powerful and hardcoded into your DNA that you will confbias yourself to never give that up.

The sad thing is that players like you never learn. You’ll be wrong here, you’ll do it again in another game, and you still won’t learn and you’ll continue to wrongly tunnel people and to make sweeping proclamations about the universality of behaviour because that’s how you understand the world. And people will continue to lap it up because people like sweeping statements and arrogant dickbags who claim to have figured it all out for them.

In mafia what people should be doing is constantly wondering if they’re justified in what they’re thinking and what they’re doing, and aware of their intense fallibility and inadequacy. These things are not necessarily enjoyable things to face, but they’re a part of improving. Again, there may be mild exceptions in the case of people like RC who have reads that approach accurate enough to justify arrogance.

I have no reason to believe that you’re in that category, but your own inability to imagine someone believing that a shitpush on them may be because the person is an ignoramus as opposed to scum speaks volumes.

[DonCorleone]

They are in a fucking tough position if I'm right. If I'm wrong, do you think I'm wrong about them all and that farside is scum? I can't see it at all. I could write an entire case about farside obvtowning this game, put aside the fact that I've had the exact same reactions as her for most of the game.

And then it’s also stuff like this. Youve confbiased so utterly into a position of me being scum that it’s thrown off your ability to read anything else in the gamestate.

I want to swear at you and rain down about a hundred posts of vitriol but all it’s going to do is catch me a ban and make the game less pleasant for everyone else here.

I sincerely hope that the rest of town considers that following the shoutiesr person is rarely the most effective strategy, as I could evidence by linking to any number of games on my main.

I think the healthier thing is to move on.

Please don’t lynch Maria next, I may talk to some of you post game or I may not.

VOTE: DonCorleone

[DonCorleone]

There are enough people who are tunnelled on me and not willing to talk about it or move off that I think this will be the healthiest thing. If you thought I was scum here then please try to work on your ability to read people, I’ve been outstandingly obvtown for probably the last couple of days.

[DonCorleone]

Getting shitwagoned to death always throws my reads off but probably (farside, chkflip, eyestott/Knightmare, Lilith/cakez, Vecna?) should have all the scum, where each forward slash pair is one scum max in that group and Vecna is the one I’m least confident on but don’t really want to check.

Also for fuck’s sake stop letting ABR lead anything. Scum if you’re elsewhere than in those names then I think you’re playing well and I’ll be rooting for you in dead thread!

[DonCorleone]

And just like that, he’s gone!

[DonCorleone]

Postscript: MariaR and firebringer — I really enjoyed playing with both of you, regardless of what alignment you ultimately are and wanted to call you both out as elements that made this game tolerable

[DonCorleone]

Oh yeah, icon could also be scum, if he doesn’t pick it up he should go in my soon to be totally ignored list

[DonCorleone]

Oh, and a final postpostscript: if ABR isn’t a coward he should say who he thinks my main is so that I can mock him for being that in addition to being wrong on my alignment in the dead thread/postgame

[chkflip]

Imagine being so pompous you'd rather throw a fit, self-vote after saying the scum team is in literally over half the playerlist, and still think you have a high horse to giddyup out on.